Re: Oil Cooling
On Mar 12, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. It doesn't conduct electricity, and as such would be perfect for this use. It has been done many times with PCs; does anyone know anything that may keep the G5 from working optimally? -- -- Illirik Smirnov Sounds like a radical cooling solution. I would love to see a picture of it setup and working with this oil-cooling and text explaining all changes that were required to set it up. I own a dual 2.7GHz G5 and partially working dual 2.5GHz G5 that both have liquid cooling pumps from Apple, so I would be very interested in what ever you do to modify the cooling on your DP 2.5GHz PowerMac G5. Sorry I don't have any advice for you, but if this method works for PC's, I don't see why it would not work for the G5. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
i watched the youtube video. i would think the first thing to fail would be the power supply fan. its little motor is designed to spin in air, which has virtually zero viscosity, not mineral oil. maybe the mineral oil will keep the motor cool enough when under the heavier load of moving liquid rather than air. having said that, the power supply may stay cool enough due to the convective fllow of the mineral oil induced by the heat generated by the power supply even if the fan motor burns out. for the same reason, i would think the fan on the processor heat sink will also fail, but again, the flow of mineral oil past the heat sink may carry heat away fast enough. so, the heat from the computer is transferred to the mineral oil. i get that. what cools the mineral oil? perhaps you just depend on conduction of heat through the acrylic of the aquarium. however, i believe acrylic has fairly low thermal conductivity, and unless your setup is in a breezy location in the house i would think over time the mineral oil will warm up. also, if you light the enclosure (as you would light an aquarium) that will add heat to the oil bath. i have an aquarium lit with a couple of fluorescent tubes, and it requires a chiller in the recirculation loop in the summer due to the heat from the fluorescent tubes. good luck! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
i watched the youtube video. i would think the first thing to fail would be the power supply fan. its little motor is designed to spin in air, which has virtually zero viscosity, not mineral oil. maybe the mineral oil will keep the motor cool enough when under the heavier load of moving liquid rather than air. The best cooling is achieved when using a fluid which has the lowest viscosity. And, that fluid which has the lowest viscosity is molecular hydrogen gas (H-H, or H2). The large electric system turbine-generators, some of which have a net power to the grid of 1,100 megawatts (1,100,000 kilowatts or 1,100,000,000 watts) or more, are cooled using molecular hydrogen. Obviously, the generator's field, which rotates and is energized through slip rings which can and do cause sparks (the main winding is the stator in these cases, and this cannot cause sparks) has its rings outside the hydrogen atmosphere lest the T-G explode in one quick hurry. The next best cooling fluid would be molecular helium, which has an atomic weight roughly twice that of hydrogen and with which there would be no explosive risk. Helium has a molecular weight many times lower than water and orders of magnitude lower than oil. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
At 1:32 PM -0400 3/12/2012, Illirik Smirnov wrote: I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/stats/powermac_g5_2.5_dp.html This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. It doesn't conduct electricity, and as such would be perfect for this use. It has been done many times with PCs; does anyone know anything that may keep the G5 from working optimally? hum. wow. I've heard of this being done but have never seen it. Intriguing idea. Personally, I'd never do it... At some point, I'd have to go in there to fix or add something and I cannot abide by oily slimy things! blech! lol Are you experiencing any particular issue with your Power Mac that has led you to this? If the heat transfer is really good, it might make for some overclocking opportunities! Can a Power Mac G5 be overclocked? I know that the liquid cooled G5 bricks are known to have problems as they get older. I'm thinking going whole-system oil cooled like this might maybe be a solution ... depending on how the leaking liquid coolant mixes with the mineral oil. OTGH, it might be better to oil an air-cooled G5. Extending the USB and FW to the top of the tank should be easy. I wouldn't bother with the SATA interface until you got everything else working. Booting off the 800 Mbps Firewire2 instead of 1.5G SATA is good enough for testing. Most PCs are fairly open in their design. Slap in a few fans, and there's good air flow. But the Power Mac G5 is tightly compartmentalized. I wonder if the fluid flow will still be ok? It's not enough that fluid flows. It has to actually circulate to the radiator system. Otherwise, the oil will happily distribute the heat evenly through that compartment, making it hotter and hotter. I've never gutted a PM G5. Are there any dust filters in there? I would check any/all parts for labels and such. Puget Systems has a FAQ that mentions the oil dissolved the gum, loosening the labels. http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php Do you have/need the G5 service / take-apart manuals? An interesting project... If you do this, please keep us in the loop! I'd love to know how it goes! At 12:45 AM +0100 3/15/2012, Valter Prahlad wrote: I'm doubtful about the power supply fan, though, and I'm very skeptical about immersing the HD in oil: it isn't designed to work in oil, and the very strict tolerances might lead to trouble. (unless it's leak-proof; but on HDs I always noticed a tiny hole you must not cover, so it's not sealed) Puget Systems had no problem with the fans. They didn't dip the HDs - those are mounted in the tank's top. At 11:37 PM -0400 3/14/2012, W.Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Don't go for the bubbles though it will reduce heat transfer. Or is that important? Or is it really about having a showy conversation piece? Their example had too many bubbles, I think. But geeze - ya gotta have some! And maybe one of those USB powered swimming fishies! I donno. The more I think about it the more cool this project seems. lol - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
To the person who mentioned using marine coolant in their g5, pm me some info on that as that is my next goal over the next couple of months To score a quad for myself AND my wife, and both of us use processor intensive programs in relatively warm climates. Thank you much The greater the animal, the greater the man On Mar 15, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 1:32 PM -0400 3/12/2012, Illirik Smirnov wrote: I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/stats/powermac_g5_2.5_dp.html This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. It doesn't conduct electricity, and as such would be perfect for this use. It has been done many times with PCs; does anyone know anything that may keep the G5 from working optimally? hum. wow. I've heard of this being done but have never seen it. Intriguing idea. Personally, I'd never do it... At some point, I'd have to go in there to fix or add something and I cannot abide by oily slimy things! blech! lol Are you experiencing any particular issue with your Power Mac that has led you to this? If the heat transfer is really good, it might make for some overclocking opportunities! Can a Power Mac G5 be overclocked? I know that the liquid cooled G5 bricks are known to have problems as they get older. I'm thinking going whole-system oil cooled like this might maybe be a solution ... depending on how the leaking liquid coolant mixes with the mineral oil. OTGH, it might be better to oil an air-cooled G5. Extending the USB and FW to the top of the tank should be easy. I wouldn't bother with the SATA interface until you got everything else working. Booting off the 800 Mbps Firewire2 instead of 1.5G SATA is good enough for testing. Most PCs are fairly open in their design. Slap in a few fans, and there's good air flow. But the Power Mac G5 is tightly compartmentalized. I wonder if the fluid flow will still be ok? It's not enough that fluid flows. It has to actually circulate to the radiator system. Otherwise, the oil will happily distribute the heat evenly through that compartment, making it hotter and hotter. I've never gutted a PM G5. Are there any dust filters in there? I would check any/all parts for labels and such. Puget Systems has a FAQ that mentions the oil dissolved the gum, loosening the labels. http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php Do you have/need the G5 service / take-apart manuals? An interesting project... If you do this, please keep us in the loop! I'd love to know how it goes! At 12:45 AM +0100 3/15/2012, Valter Prahlad wrote: I'm doubtful about the power supply fan, though, and I'm very skeptical about immersing the HD in oil: it isn't designed to work in oil, and the very strict tolerances might lead to trouble. (unless it's leak-proof; but on HDs I always noticed a tiny hole you must not cover, so it's not sealed) Puget Systems had no problem with the fans. They didn't dip the HDs - those are mounted in the tank's top. At 11:37 PM -0400 3/14/2012, W.Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Don't go for the bubbles though it will reduce heat transfer. Or is that important? Or is it really about having a showy conversation piece? Their example had too many bubbles, I think. But geeze - ya gotta have some! And maybe one of those USB powered swimming fishies! I donno. The more I think about it the more cool this project seems. lol - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Oil Cooling
I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. It doesn't conduct electricity, and as such would be perfect for this use. It has been done many times with PCs; does anyone know anything that may keep the G5 from working optimally? -- -- Illirik Smirnov Chaotic Neutral since 1997 A Charisma of 28 will seduce the dragon on a 14 or higher... 20? Oh well, I suppose you get the treasure. They see me rollin, they hatin; patrollin, tryin to catch me rollin nat one Ron Paul // Jello Biafra 2012: For A Better America= Proud member of the Enloe HS Debate Team: At Least Someone Placed -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. Why do you need it? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
Il giorno 12-03-2012 18:32, Illirik Smirnov ha scritto: I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. This sounds weird. :-o Do you mean immersing the whole processors assembly into oil? Would it smell like fries? ;-D -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
At 9:04 PM +0100 3/14/2012, Valter Prahlad wrote: Il giorno 12-03-2012 18:32, Illirik Smirnov ha scritto: I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. This sounds weird. :-o Do you mean immersing the whole processors assembly into oil? Would it smell like fries? ;-D hum. A whole sensory new dimension to using a Mac! - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
Actually y ruin a perfectly good system for that? Just asking .. Also it stinks but not like fries, I think possible a DUI watercool would be more effective. People putting their pc's in mineral oil is like masterbating in public, just because you can doesn't mean you should. But maybe that is why you want to do it. Good luck either way. And yes you can you must submerse everything except hd's DVD drives and other things .. The greater the animal, the greater the man On Mar 14, 2012, at 3:04 PM, Valter Prahlad valter.prah...@fastwebnet.it wrote: Il giorno 12-03-2012 18:32, Illirik Smirnov ha scritto: I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. This sounds weird. :-o Do you mean immersing the whole processors assembly into oil? Would it smell like fries? ;-D -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
On Mar 14, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Jesse Stjohn wrote: Also it stinks but not like fries, I think possible a DUI watercool would be more effective. A DUI watercool would work...for a second or two Id imagine :-) If you're gonna do it, go big...get a Cray 2 case and cooling system 8-P Fluorinert rulz! http://www.craysupercomputers.com/images/Systems/Cray2/Cray2_019_8Processor_NERSC.jpg -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
Il giorno 14-03-2012 22:28, Dan ha scritto: Would it smell like fries? ;-D hum. A whole sensory new dimension to using a Mac! Going all the way through from MacIntosh to MacDonald's... ;-P -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
On Mar 14, 2012, at 2:21 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote: Il giorno 14-03-2012 22:28, Dan ha scritto: Would it smell like fries? ;-D hum. A whole sensory new dimension to using a Mac! Going all the way through from MacIntosh to MacDonald's... ;-P Hey you can make tasty fried snax while cranking up the framerate or doing those big renders or sfx! It's a Deep Fryer! It's a Computer! All you need is Dan Ackroyd at his smarmiest to introduce it! -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
On Mar 12, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Illirik Smirnov wrote: I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. It doesn't conduct electricity, and as such would be perfect for this use. It has been done many times with PCs; does anyone know anything that may keep the G5 from working optimally? -- -- Illirik Smirnov Why not just overhaul your LCS with Marine coolant? It works good for me. John Carmonne Yorba Linda CA 92886 USA MacBook Pro i7 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
No, TBH here is an actual video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok . I'm not trolling. -- -- Illirik Smirnov Chaotic Neutral since 1997 A Charisma of 28 will seduce the dragon on a 14 or higher... 20? Oh well, I suppose you get the treasure. They see me rollin, they hatin; patrollin, tryin to catch me rollin nat one Ron Paul // Jello Biafra 2012: For A Better America= Proud member of the Enloe HS Debate Team: At Least Someone Placed On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Mar 14, 2012, at 2:21 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote: Il giorno 14-03-2012 22:28, Dan ha scritto: Would it smell like fries? ;-D hum. A whole sensory new dimension to using a Mac! Going all the way through from MacIntosh to MacDonald's... ;-P Hey you can make tasty fried snax while cranking up the framerate or doing those big renders or sfx! It's a Deep Fryer! It's a Computer! All you need is Dan Ackroyd at his smarmiest to introduce it! -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
Il giorno 14-03-2012 22:57, Illirik Smirnov ha scritto: No, TBH here is an actual video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok . Amazing. It's very nerdish. :-) I'm doubtful about the power supply fan, though, and I'm very skeptical about immersing the HD in oil: it isn't designed to work in oil, and the very strict tolerances might lead to trouble. (unless it's leak-proof; but on HDs I always noticed a tiny hole you must not cover, so it's not sealed) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
Big Mac and fries? Hell why not dry ice or a mini fridge? This must be one Monster Mac crunching HD frames from space probe cams or calculating world financial markets or something. Hot,hot hot ! On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Valter Prahlad valter.prah...@fastwebnet.it wrote: Il giorno 12-03-2012 18:32, Illirik Smirnov ha scritto: I'm considering oil-cooling my DP 2.5 PMG5. This would involve putting the computer (sans ports, hdd, cd) in a tub of mineral oil. This sounds weird. :-ospace Do you mean immersing the whole processors assembly into oil? Would it smell like fries? ;-D -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Oil Cooling
Don't go for the bubbles though it will reduce heat transfer. Or is that important? Or is it really about having a showy conversation piece? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
