Re: rich text problem
My apologies for being stupid(er than usual). I see that Mail indeed offers message viewing control under PreferencesFonts Colors (set it so long ago I forgot where it was), and I am undoubtedly quite mistaken - memory fails me - that Outlook Express offered anything more under OS 9. Still: A bit odd that Mail doesn't directly offer the option to view all messages as plain text. As far as I can tell. If Mail (or any installed email client) can disregard and override font and type size HTML tags, theoretically it must be possible for it to be instructed to recognize some HTML tags and not recognize others. Evidently there's no market for such customization options, as I'd guess most people are as ambivalent as I about overdone HTML in email and that creators of email applications have no interest in something that defeats the trend toward snazzier-looking and more personalized (or more marketing-friendly) email. Sean -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
At 18:37 -0500 3/19/11, Sean Carroll wrote: A bit odd that Mail doesn't directly offer the option to view all messages as plain text. As far as I can tell. I haven't tried it but. . . . defaults write is a command to be executed in terminal.app And you might want to try: defaults read com.apple.mail PreferPlainText Which is a bit safer before you actually change the preference. At 11:31 -0700 3/17/11, Bruce Johnson answered another: I use Mail in 10.6 but I have it set to display rich text. Now I see why it's hated. Do this: Quit Mail. Open terminal, and enter the following: defaults write com.apple.mail PreferPlainText -bool TRUE Start Mail again. If you ever want to see the rich text version of any message merely press option-command-]; it'll then show the next alternative, which usually suffices to show the 'rich' version of any message. -- -- A fair tax is one that you pay but I don't -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
On Mar 19, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Sean Carroll wrote: A bit odd that Mail doesn't directly offer the option to view all messages as plain text. As far as I can tell. The problem isn't in the receiving end, it's in the creation end. You'll need to go to MailPreferenceComposing TabComposing:Message Format: and select the Plain Text field. Alternatively, you can individually toggle each composed email using Shift-Cmd-T or by selected from the Mail menu bar under the FormatMake Plain Text/Rich Text toggle selection. As far as viewing, there isn't a simple way to reformat Rich Text as Plain Text, so you'd often end up with a gobbledygook message. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
At 9:56 PM -0600 3/17/2011, Alex Barnes wrote: At least there's not flash emails going around (although I can see us headed there)! Go wash your brain out with soap. /me shudders, and does a horrified squishy face, as he staggers off to the kitchen - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
On Mar 17, 9:48 pm, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com wrote: -- Give me liberty or give me Obamacare -- Snarky political comments are NOT appropriate to this list. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
I like it. Do you mind if I use it? -- Give me liberty or give me Obamacare -- Snarky political comments are NOT appropriate to this list. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
On 18/03/2011 14:50PM, Robert MacLeay rmacl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 17, 9:48 pm, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com wrote: -- Give me liberty or give me Obamacare -- Snarky political comments are NOT appropriate to this list. It was a signature, it's allowed. You don't have to agree with anything. From LEM netiquette Signature lines * Signature blocks (sigs) are considered personal expression as long as the poster's name comes between the body of the message and the sig. * Please keep your signature concise. Six lines or less is best. Ten or more is excessive. * Many email clients wrap text at 80 characters or less (sometimes as little as 72); check that your signature doesn't wrap badly because of this. * Taglines should be clearly separated from the body of the email and should come after your name. * Avoid vulgar and offensive taglines. Andy -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
Why does anyone care about rich text/plain text. This isn't the 90's anymore! If your computer can't read rich text then you need to do some serious updates! My PowerBook 1400 can read rich text on Gmail's website! Why can't the list managers make some kind of a rich text block on the lists to help us that make an occasional mistake only to find out we mistakenly sent a post containing rich text and no way to fix it. Then comes a warning from the Nannies that we screwed up and get back on the moderating deal yet again? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
On Mar 17, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Alex Barnes wrote: Why does anyone care about rich text/plain text. This isn't the 90's anymore! If your computer can't read rich text then you need to do some serious updates! My PowerBook 1400 can read rich text on Gmail's website! http://dbdev2.pharmacy.arizona.edu/miscjunk/ihatehtmlmail.pdf If you can't state your problem with your words, all the ransom-note typography and hopping smileys will not help your case. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
Oh. So is that why the nannies say no to rich text? http://dbdev2.pharmacy.arizona.edu/miscjunk/ihatehtmlmail.pdf If you can't state your problem with your words, all the ransom-note typography and hopping smileys will not help your case. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
On Mar 17, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Alex Barnes wrote: Oh. So is that why the nannies say no to rich text? You'll have to ask them. It's a long-standing rule on the LEM lists, and frankly, I've rarely seen any instance where rich text adds any useful information, and when you have a mashed up mixture of three text replies and two different Rich text ones, one of which renders as 3-point script 27 inches wide on the screen you'll learn to despise that particular abomination. And Dog help us if some idiot replies from their work account using Exchange which decides to send out an unusable winmail.dat file because Microsoft Declare darkness a standard thinks that everyone in the world uses Outlook. Not to mention what happens when it's a digest you're attempting to read. You seem to not understand that not everyone reads this list in the Gmail web interface; some of us use *real* email clients. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
At 12:31 PM -0500 3/17/2011, Alex Barnes wrote: [top posting, yadda yadda yadda] http://dbdev2.pharmacy.arizona.edu/miscjunk/ihatehtmlmail.pdf If you can't state your problem with your words, all the ransom-note typography and hopping smileys will not help your case. Oh. So is that why the nannies say no to rich text? In part. HTML-based emails (which is what rich text be) is the biggest boon to the criminals since the 'net itself, I think. It lets them hide so many things - urls, viruses, etc. But more importantly... Rich text just looks nasty. What you're creating may look ok *to you* *on your particular computer screen* *with your font* *with your font size* but it doesn't look that way to anyone else! You need to be considerate of your audience. If all of your readers are fine with such, then go for it. But if any of them have different equipment or -especially- any visual problems, you're screwing them over. Is that your intention? You want to get technical assistance by making your reader's eyes bleed? FWIW, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
I use Mail in 10.6 but I have it set to display rich text. Now I see why it's hated. On Mar 17, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Mar 17, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Alex Barnes wrote: Oh. So is that why the nannies say no to rich text? You'll have to ask them. It's a long-standing rule on the LEM lists, and frankly, I've rarely seen any instance where rich text adds any useful information, and when you have a mashed up mixture of three text replies and two different Rich text ones, one of which renders as 3-point script 27 inches wide on the screen you'll learn to despise that particular abomination. And Dog help us if some idiot replies from their work account using Exchange which decides to send out an unusable winmail.dat file because Microsoft Declare darkness a standard thinks that everyone in the world uses Outlook. Not to mention what happens when it's a digest you're attempting to read. You seem to not understand that not everyone reads this list in the Gmail web interface; some of us use *real* email clients. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
On Mar 17, 2011, at 10:58 AM, Alex Barnes wrote: I use Mail in 10.6 but I have it set to display rich text. Now I see why it's hated. Do this: Quit Mail. Open terminal, and enter the following: defaults write com.apple.mail PreferPlainText -bool TRUE Start Mail again. Now your eyes, in Dan's parlance, don't bleed any more. If you ever want to see the rich text version of any message merely press option-command-]; it'll then show the next alternative, which usually suffices to show the 'rich' version of any message. After a while it's becomes second nature, like command-s to save... -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
On Mar 17, 2011, at 12:14 PM, Alex Barnes wrote: Why does anyone care about rich text/plain text. People that care use correct grammar and punctuation. They also tend to bottom post or interleave their replies because they believe top posting is rude. Bruce has posted a good example of why plain text is preferred. If your computer can't read rich text then you need to do some serious updates! My PowerBook 1400 can read rich text on Gmail's website! Sounds like you've done some serious updating if your PowerBook 1400 has a consciousness and can read. My computers lack consciousness and are limited to dumb tricks like being able to display rich text, or synthesize speech from text. I'd love to have a computer that reads. My computer can't even spell very good. I bet if it could read its spelling, punctuation, and grammar would improve, not to mention its sense of humor. It never laughs. I think it may be depressed? Reading would help I'm sure. Where do I get these serious updates? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
Ok... I won't use read I'll use display. Sounds like you've done some serious updating if your PowerBook 1400 has a consciousness and can read. My computers lack consciousness and are limited to dumb tricks like being able to display rich text, or synthesize speech from text. I'd love to have a computer that reads. My computer can't even spell very good. I bet if it could read its spelling, punctuation, and grammar would improve, not to mention its sense of humor. It never laughs. I think it may be depressed? Reading would help I'm sure. Where do I get these serious updates? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
In response to the OP's comment about slipping up and getting reprimanded, what I do: In MailPreferencesComposing, I set the message format to Plain Text. I do this specifically for the G-list (although I could certainly set up a special account with this preference only for LEM list mail and leave my others as is). When I need rich text for other email, which is often, it's simple enough to say yes to a little drop-down window and have it. I think the option to choose between composing in plain text and HTML is also available on webmail clients. Used to be on mine, anyway. It's odd that Mac Mail doesn't seem to offer a preference (or a more directly available one, anyway) for *viewing* in plain text exclusively. Rich text email isn't the exclusive province of idiots. I find it unfortunate that useful tools of nuance in writing such as italics and bold type are forbidden here. I agree with a number of arguments against rich text, at least in theory. But I have no problem viewing all email in my real email client in the format it was sent in. I guess my eyes don't bleed that easily. A long time ago, I thought the problem with rich text/HTML mail (synonymous terms?) was how mail servers handled it. If that's no longer true, and if one can (as Bruce outlined) set Mail (and probably another real email client as well) to display all email as plain text, then I confess to being befuddled as to why the subject of rich text evokes such passion. Too bad there's not such a thing as reasonably-well-off text. Something that could allow for a few useful things like italics and bold type without letting in smileys and all the rest. Sean -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
At 9:31 PM -0500 3/17/2011, Sean Carroll wrote: A long time ago, I thought the problem with rich text/HTML mail (synonymous terms?) Rich text is text marked up with HTML. was how mail servers handled it. Never had anything to do with the mail servers. Mail servers simply pass along messages. They do not munge the message body in any way. The disposition / interpretation of the HTML codes has always been done in the mail cilent. If that's no longer true, and if one can (as Bruce outlined) set Mail (and probably another real email client as well) to display all email as plain text, then I confess to being befuddled as to why the subject of rich text evokes such passion. It's the passion of the results. The recipients get frustrated because they cannot read the messages. And the originators get frustrated because they get fewer or no replies. Too bad there's not such a thing as reasonably-well-off text. Something that could allow for a few useful things like italics and bold type without letting in smileys and all the rest. The original idea of rich text was that it would support only simple markup, a limited number of tags. Then, as I understand it, MS got involved and suddenly it was full-on HTML with all sorts of MS specific malformations and such. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
The original idea of rich text was that it would support only simple markup, a limited number of tags. Then, as I understand it, MS got involved and suddenly it was full-on HTML with all sorts of MS specific malformations and such. Aha. (Thanks for the other clarifications as well.) Now I'm wondering if there are email clients that allow for much more selective control of how messages are displayed, and if not, why not. More selective than all or nothing in terms of HTML. If this can occur to me in 2011 (along with vague ideas of how it would be done and images of a Nuke smileys and other graphics checkbox), it must have occurred to someone wiser a long time ago. I do seem to recall that Outlook Express in OS 9 gave you customizable viewing options that Mail doesn't, though that's not near the extensive control that I'm sure must be possible. Well, I'm not entirely sure, because if it was possible... wouldn't we all be using such an email client already? So I wonder what the obstacles are. Sean -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
At 22:53 -0400 3/17/11, Dan wrote: At 9:31 PM -0500 3/17/2011, Sean Carroll wrote: A long time ago, I thought the problem with rich text/HTML mail (synonymous terms?) Rich text is text marked up with HTML. Practically true so long as the discussion is limited to mail; Two possible misconceptions: 1: There was once an RFC about rich text procedures for mail. It wasn't used much and was nothing like HTM but it was called Rich Text. I haven't seen it in 26 years. 2: There is a format for word processing called RTF - Rich Text Format. It pretty much belongs to Microsoft having been introduced to support the BASIC programming language before there was a Macintosh. MS WORD uses it in a newer and better version that last year's which is used by Apple's TextEdit..app. That RTF has nothing to do with HTML for the web and is never used in email except, perhaps, as the format of an attachment. -- -- Give me liberty or give me Obamacare -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: rich text problem
At least there's not flash emails going around (although I can see us headed there)! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
