Re: install osx 10.5

[Tina K.]

On 2010/12/01 14:02, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote:


On Dec 1, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Tina K. wrote:



Applejack (like Diskwarrior) is a 'use when it's broken' thing,
not a maintenance thing...OS X is largely maintenance-free.


It is my understanding that large caches can actually slow down OS X.


I mainly do that to clean caches and swap, and to check prefs. Is
running disk repair and permission repair as well harmful to the
system?


Well, I agree with John Gruber, Repair Permissions is voodoo. It's a
10.2 fix for a largely 10.1.5 problem; VERY occasionally it will fix
a problem, but those problems ONLY occur immediately after a system
update


I agree too, but it is part of Applejack's deep clean routine.


If you find issues every time you run disk repair, something's broken
with your disk.


But then I used to wait until I had a problem to run DW, now I run
it about every three months to try and keep the directory from
getting corrupted.


This is exactly my point. The directory shouldn't be GETTING
corrupted. OSX'es file system is robust and self-repairing.


When I said corrupted, what I meant by that was x amount out of order, 
usually between 1% and 35%.


Tina

--

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Re: install osx 10.5

[Bruce Johnson]

On Dec 1, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Tina K. wrote:

>> 
>> Applejack (like Diskwarrior) is a 'use when it's broken' thing, not a
>> maintenance thing...OS X is largely maintenance-free.
> 
> I mainly do that to clean caches and swap, and to check prefs. Is running 
> disk repair and permission repair as well harmful to the system?

Well, I agree with John Gruber, Repair Permissions is voodoo. It's a 10.2 fix 
for a largely 10.1.5 problem; VERY occasionally it will fix a problem, but 
those problems ONLY occur immediately after a system update 



If you find issues every time you run disk repair, something's broken with your 
disk.

> But then I used to wait until I had a problem to run DW, now I run it about 
> every three months to try and keep the directory from getting corrupted.

This is exactly my point. The directory shouldn't be GETTING corrupted. OSX'es 
file system is robust and self-repairing. 

I end up using DiskWarrior a handful of times a year, on all the Macs I 
support, and in EVERY CASE where I've had to use it more than once in a short 
time (weeks) on a computer the hard drive subsequently failed. As I said, I 
treat my macs like dirt: I never do ANY maintenance on them at all, and I just 
don't have these kinds of problems.

I also religiously maintain backups, multiple backups for important things 
(like my pictures, home movies, etc...the stiuff that would be impossible to 
replace), so if something breaks it's just a matter of nuke&pave and restore my 
stuff. I've only ever had to do this ONCE for non-hardware failure related 
problems...the ONE time I ran DiskWarrior on a perfectly good working directory.

To illustrate using the Standard LEM Car Analogy, what you're doing is the 
equivalent of changing the oil, rotating your tires, cleaning your spark plugs, 
adjusting your valves and removing and checking your head gaskets on the car 
every time you fill up with gas, because you're burning oil and the 
transmission makes a funny noise in third gear.

Apple did NOT contract with Lucas to make computers, and OS X was NOT designed 
by the engineers at Lancia. Both hardware and software is much, much more 
robust than your "maintenance" routine implies.

If you're having these sorts of problems on a continual basis, something is 
WRONG with the hardware or your install of OS X, it's not "just the way it is."

Back up your stuff, wipe and re-install OS X, update it, and install your 
programs back from the source (or the updated versions from the source) and 
then restore your data. Create another user account, for testing purposes and 
do not use it for anything but testing.

Then watch the console log like a hawk, and as/if problems arise, the first 
step is to log in as the test user and see if you can re-create the problem. If 
you can, then the problem lies somewhere in the System or Applications realm. 

If not is specific to your user account and the problem lies somewhere in your 
user's files, prefs, settings, etc.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: install osx 10.5

[Tina K.]

On 2010/12/01 08:34, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote:

On Nov 30, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Tina K. wrote:


I've had the same problems on all three of my Macs, and all three
behaved very well under Tiger. I do run Applejack monthly in both
manual and deep clean modes, and I have run memtest on all three
with no problems reported. So I've learned to live with it,
knowing that safe boots would temporarily stop the failed logout
cycle is a big help (thanks again to whomever told me about
this).

Well, you have to look at what's in common on all of them that's
doing this. I looked, my laptop's been up 52 days. No crashes from
Mail. A bunch of crash logs for Safari, but those are all from me
force-quitting out of flash-related SPODS.


The iMac now runs linux but the other two both run BOINC and Little 
Snitch at boot.



Applejack (like Diskwarrior) is a 'use when it's broken' thing, not a
maintenance thing...OS X is largely maintenance-free.


I mainly do that to clean caches and swap, and to check prefs. Is 
running disk repair and permission repair as well harmful to the system? 
But then I used to wait until I had a problem to run DW, now I run it 
about every three months to try and keep the directory from getting 
corrupted.



Seriously, I NEVER do any of this stuff to any of my Macs; and it's
not like I treat 'em with kid gloves or anything.


It's still annoying but now that I know the fix, albeit temporary, it's 
not as frustrating as it used to be.



Check the system log for what happens when you try and fail to log
out...it should tell you if something's preventing it.


I did look at the log some time ago, I didn't see anything revealing but 
I will recheck it when this occurs again.


Tina

--

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Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10

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Re: install osx 10.5

[Bruce Johnson]

On Nov 30, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Tina K. wrote:

> I've had the same problems on all three of my Macs, and all three behaved 
> very well under Tiger. I do run Applejack monthly in both manual and deep 
> clean modes, and I have run memtest on all three with no problems reported. 
> So I've learned to live with it, knowing that safe boots would temporarily 
> stop the failed logout cycle is a big help (thanks again to whomever told me 
> about this).

Well, you have to look at what's in common on all of them that's doing this. I 
looked, my laptop's been up 52 days. No crashes from Mail. A bunch of crash 
logs for Safari, but those are all from me force-quitting out of flash-related 
SPODS.

Applejack (like Diskwarrior) is a 'use when it's broken' thing, not a 
maintenance thing...OS X is largely maintenance-free.

Seriously, I NEVER do any of this stuff to any of my Macs; and it's not like I 
treat 'em with kid gloves or anything.

Check the system log for what happens when you try and fail to log out...it 
should tell you if something's preventing it.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: install osx 10.5

[Tina K.]

On 2010/11/30 16:40, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote:

On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Tina K. wrote:


Safe boots after every failed logout/restart/shut down, followed
by an 'unsafe' boot; KPs, app crashes (Finder and Mail.app are
the worst offenders), and other things that I prefer not to think
about very often.

This is absolutely NOT the norm. I've NEVER had to do that; I cannot
REMEMBER the last time my Finder or Mail crashed (even on my PPC
laptop, certainly not on my Intel desktop).

Run Applejack/Memtest to deep-clean your system and check your
RAM...I'm betting you've got bad RAM in there somewhere.

I use three sometimes four Macs on a daily basis, which generally
have very long uptimes (just got a system update so my current uptime
is only 6 days); my laptop is pretty much never rebooted; I just
sleep it as needed, and I NEVER have app crashes.


I've had the same problems on all three of my Macs, and all three 
behaved very well under Tiger. I do run Applejack monthly in both manual 
and deep clean modes, and I have run memtest on all three with no 
problems reported. So I've learned to live with it, knowing that safe 
boots would temporarily stop the failed logout cycle is a big help 
(thanks again to whomever told me about this).


Tina

--

iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR
Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10

Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard
10.5.8

PowerBook G4 15" HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR
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Re: install osx 10.5

[Bruce Johnson]

On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Tina K. wrote:

> Safe boots after every failed logout/restart/shut down, followed by an 
> 'unsafe' boot; KPs, app crashes (Finder and Mail.app are the worst 
> offenders), and other things that I prefer not to think about very often.

This is absolutely NOT the norm. I've NEVER had to do that; I cannot REMEMBER 
the last time my Finder or Mail crashed (even on my PPC laptop, certainly not 
on my Intel desktop).

Run Applejack/Memtest to deep-clean your system and check your RAM...I'm 
betting you've got bad RAM in there somewhere.

I use three sometimes four Macs on a daily basis, which generally have very 
long uptimes (just got a system update so my current uptime is only 6 days); my 
laptop is pretty much never rebooted; I just sleep it as needed, and I NEVER 
have app crashes.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: install osx 10.5

[Amanda Ward]

I'm running Leopard on a Sawtooth with a 1.6 GHz G4 from OWC, with 1 GB ram, 
runs great! (Not a great as it did on my Intel iMac, but really good)
Have Leo on my 733MHz DA, with 1 GB ram. Runs okay... a bit slow, but okay. 
Mostly use the DA for network storage and burning videos.

@

On Nov 30, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Lawrence David Eden wrote:

>> Yes.  I am running 10.5 on a 933MHz QS Power Mac.
>> 
> 
> 
> Are you satisfied with the performance of 10.5 vs 10.4?
> 
> I have a Snakebite Dual 500 G4.  Would 10.5 improve the speed of my Mac or 
> slow me down?
> 
> Larry
> 
> -- 
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Re: install osx 10.5

[Tina K.]

On 2010/11/30 13:06, Lawrence David Eden so eloquently wrote:

Are you satisfied with the performance of 10.5 vs 10.4?


There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish that I could go back to 
Tiger. Sure I love quick view, and I like the dictionary shortcut 
(cursor over word, control+command+D), and I have to admit that internet 
sharing is far less painful in Leopard than in Tiger, but the baggage 
that comes with it makes it too much effort. Safe boots after every 
failed logout/restart/shut down, followed by an 'unsafe' boot; KPs, app 
crashes (Finder and Mail.app are the worst offenders), and other things 
that I prefer not to think about very often.


Bleh now I'm depressed lol.

Tina

--

iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR 
Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10


Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 
10.5.8


PowerBook G4 15" HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR 
Leopard 10.5.8


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Re: install osx 10.5

[Kris Tilford]

On Nov 30, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Lawrence David Eden wrote:


Would 10.5 improve the speed of my Mac or slow me down?


It'll slow you down about 20%. It's the same on all PPC Macs running  
10.5. I personally believe it's some type of planned obsolescence by  
Apple, after all, Leopard 10.5 made Intel Macs faster, while making  
PPC Macs slower. The same goes for iOS on the iPhones, iOS 4 makes  
iPhone 3's & 3g's slower, but makes iPhone 4's faster. There must be  
some way they manipulate the OS to run slower on old hardware.


If you look in the XBench archives for dual-500 Gigabit, you'll see  
that the highest scores were all with Tiger 10.4 at about 30,  
(absolute high 30.97 by taka2), while best Leopard 10.5 score is 23.98  
by G4DP500, so it's more than 20% slower for Leopard. I'd stick with  
Tiger.







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Re: install osx 10.5

[Bill Connelly]

On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Lawrence David Eden wrote:


Yes.  I am running 10.5 on a 933MHz QS Power Mac.




Are you satisfied with the performance of 10.5 vs 10.4?

I have a Snakebite Dual 500 G4.  Would 10.5 improve the speed of my  
Mac or slow me down?


Larry

--


I believe it slows one down.

Xbench gave me:

34.45 for Tiger (10.4.11) run system.

29.93 for same hardware setup under Leopard (10.5.7).

I'm satisfied with the speed of Leopard for the projects I do on the DA.

I will probably go back to Tiger for my QS 2002 Dual 1GHz, primarily  
for my M-Audio 2496 PCI card isn't still up to date with Leopard. M- 
Audio stopped at Tiger. I use Leopard on it now because I am using  
Final Cut Express, which I think requires Leopard ... or my version of  
iDVD I need requires Leopard, for my VHS to DVD conversions.


The need for Speed is somewhat relative, and a personal choice, for my  
G4s.


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Re: install osx 10.5

[Lawrence David Eden]

Yes.  I am running 10.5 on a 933MHz QS Power Mac.




Are you satisfied with the performance of 10.5 vs 10.4?

I have a Snakebite Dual 500 G4.  Would 10.5 improve the speed of my 
Mac or slow me down?


Larry

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Re: install osx 10.5

[JoeTaxpayer]

Just make sure it's really 2.0.
I commented maybe a month back and was given good advice how to be
sure. These cards that work are still only $10 or so.

A thought - If you buy 10.5 full price, ($75?) there may be some Dual
1.25GHz MDDs (is your's dual?) with 2GB memory and the card for $150
or so.
When you break down the value in those machines, it's pretty crazy.
The memory alone would cost $100 to buy.

On Nov 30, 8:51 am, Peter Martin  wrote:
> Thank you.And can you tell me the better way to put usb 2.0 in the same
> machine?
>
> 2010/11/30 Tina K. 
>
> > On 2010/11/29 06:41, Peter Martin so eloquently wrote:
>
> >> can i install osx 10.5 in my 933mhz ppc g4?
>
> > Yes, the official minimum is 867 MHz.
>
> > Tina
>
> > --
>
> > iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR
> > Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10
>
> > Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard
> > 10.5.8
>
> > PowerBook G4 15" HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR
> > Leopard 10.5.8
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> > those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> > Macs.
> > The list FAQ is athttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our
> > netiquette guide is athttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

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Re: install osx 10.5

[Tina K.]

On 2010/11/30 06:51, Peter Martin so eloquently wrote:

And can you tell me the better way to put usb 2.0 in the same machine?


That's a subject that was just recently discussed in some detail, but
I don't remember the name of the thread. Perhaps a search of the group 
at googlegroups would reveal it. I believe there is a particular 
standard or chipset or something that ensures compatibility.


Tina

--

iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR 
Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10


Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 
10.5.8


PowerBook G4 15" HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR 
Leopard 10.5.8


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Re: install osx 10.5

[Peter Martin]

Thank you all very much.

2010/11/30 Bill Connelly 

>
> On Nov 30, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>
>> On Nov 30, 2010, at 6:51 AM, Peter Martin wrote:
>>
>>  Thank you.And can you tell me the better way to put usb 2.0 in the same
>>> machine?
>>>
>>
>> Just about any PCI USB2.0 card. I had an IOGear one in my G4 worked like a
>> charm.
>>
>>
> I'm using an IOGear GIC251U 5-port USB 2 PCI card I got from
> owcomputing.com in my Yikes! and the same card from buy.com in my Digital
> Audio Dual 533. Tiger is on my Yikes! and Leopard is on  my DA.
>
> Both cats are happy ...
>
>
> --
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>

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Re: install osx 10.5

[Bill Connelly]

On Nov 30, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:



On Nov 30, 2010, at 6:51 AM, Peter Martin wrote:

Thank you.And can you tell me the better way to put usb 2.0 in the  
same

machine?


Just about any PCI USB2.0 card. I had an IOGear one in my G4 worked  
like a charm.




I'm using an IOGear GIC251U 5-port USB 2 PCI card I got from  
owcomputing.com in my Yikes! and the same card from buy.com in my  
Digital Audio Dual 533. Tiger is on my Yikes! and Leopard is on  my DA.


Both cats are happy ...

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Re: install osx 10.5

[Bruce Johnson]

On Nov 30, 2010, at 6:51 AM, Peter Martin wrote:

> Thank you.And can you tell me the better way to put usb 2.0 in the same
> machine?

Just about any PCI USB2.0 card. I had an IOGear one in my G4 worked like a 
charm.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: install osx 10.5

[Peter Martin]

Thank you.And can you tell me the better way to put usb 2.0 in the same
machine?


2010/11/30 Tina K. 

> On 2010/11/29 06:41, Peter Martin so eloquently wrote:
>
>> can i install osx 10.5 in my 933mhz ppc g4?
>>
>
> Yes, the official minimum is 867 MHz.
>
> Tina
>
> --
>
> iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR
> Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10
>
> Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard
> 10.5.8
>
> PowerBook G4 15" HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR
> Leopard 10.5.8
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
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> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>

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Re: install osx 10.5

[Tina K.]

On 2010/11/29 06:41, Peter Martin so eloquently wrote:

can i install osx 10.5 in my 933mhz ppc g4?


Yes, the official minimum is 867 MHz.

Tina

--

iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR 
Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10


Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 
10.5.8


PowerBook G4 15" HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR 
Leopard 10.5.8


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Re: install osx 10.5

[daniel . stewart743]

Yes.  I am running 10.5 on a 933MHz QS Power Mac.


Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Peter Martin 
Sender: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 05:41:53 
To: G-Group
Reply-To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: install osx 10.5

 can i install osx 10.5 in my 933mhz ppc g4?

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install osx 10.5

[Peter Martin]

 can i install osx 10.5 in my 933mhz ppc g4?

-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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