Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
yep. go the windows defender. it's awesome! and very good too. and i have rarely found any scanner so accessible or simple to use. ok, it took microsoft about 10 or more years to do it, but it's there now. and it works well. and, as a side note, having a faster machine means that you get your every day tasks done with so much more smoothness and less hastle. wether you are wanting high speed performance for gaming, word processing, browsing the net, or what ever. it does make a difference to all tasks. it's offen hard to define what you would gain from it, till you have been on it for a while. only then, and then looking at your old system, do you realize just how much of a difference it has made to you. regards: Dallas On 19/12/2013, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Actually, the reason I upgrade and urge others to do so has nothing to do with some misplaced intrinsic value of newer hardware, more ram, and having my computers run more efficiently as you stated. I am not that shallow. The real reason I upgrade and urge others to do so is that I see real benefits in upgrading, but those benefits do not necessarily apply to you personally. For example, as you know I happen to run a number of different operating systems concurrently on my laptop. That requires a lot of CPU power and ram to run more than one OS in memory at a time. A 64-bit system with a quad core processor and 8 GB of ram would have direct and immediate benefit to me because I can give Windows 8.1 the first three or four GB of ram for running everything and give the other three or four GB of ram over to the virtual machine to use. That way both operating systems will have plenty of memory and CPU power to work with. Since you are only using XP at this time and have no desire to use Linux or another version of Windows in a virtual machine having multiple processors and several GB of ram aren't as beneficial to you as they would be to me. There is no argument about that fact. There are other benefits that I value because I genuinely think that they are necessary. Security happens to be one of those things I think is worthwhile paying for. Not just because of some misplaced intrinsic value in system security, but because I am a computer professional and have dealt with my fair share of systems that have been compromised due to poor security. Either the end user failed to update their computer, they failed to keep their antivirus up to date, or they did something else to compromize their security which ended up costing them money to fix. To give you an example a couple of weeks ago one of my aunts was on the Internet when a little dialog popped up asking her to download an update for XP. She did, and as soon as she did it installed a nasty piece of ransomware onto her computer that took over her PC, encrypted her hard drive, and when she started the computer all that would come up is a dialog box asking her for her credit card number to unlock her PC. Since she could not pay the $1,000 to get rid of the ransomware I had to come over reformat her hard drive, reinstall XP, and restore the system back to factory defaults. You want to know why I think XP is a poor choice for people? For one thing Windows XP has a major security hole which viruses, addware, ransomeware, etc has been exploiting for years and that is the admin account. If you run XP as admin, AKA super user, any virus or piece of malware you download has free reign over your computer and if your antivirus etc fails to stop it the malware can totally wipe out your system just because there is no way to prevent it. My aunt had antivirus software on her system, but it didn't stop the ransomware that took over her machine, because there was no way of stopping it. Windows 8.1 does however have an extra layer of security called User Account Control. I know people turn it off, think it is a pain in the butt, but it does stop things like viruses and other malware cold. Before a piece of software can be installed or run UAC will pop up and prompt you to confirm the action. It will tell you the name of the program, the manufacturer, and so on. That feature has saved me more than once from a malware attack because I was able to catch it and kill the process before it could do anything to my machine. Perhaps if my aunt had been running Windows 8 she could have called someone and asked about running this fake Windows update before it took over her PC as UAC would have blocked it and prompted her to confirm the installation and encryption of her drive. Besides UAC Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 comes with a number of basic security tools such as antivirus and malware protection out of the box. Yes, I know there is AVG, Avast, etc available for XP but the Microsoft tools are both free and accessible on Windows 8 and 8.1. Even better I find that they don't use as much system resources as third-party scanning
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Well tom I don't really believe there's much else to say since for me, security isn't an issue due to fhtird party software and I'd rather run avg than have the harrassment of running windows 8 and a virtual xp system. maybe that's different for you. if microsoft of course hadn't mucked up compatiblity with vb6 applications and dos programs, well I'd be happy to upgrade even with relearning the interface, and indeed I imagine everyone else currently running xp would as well, so it's certain where the blaime for this situation belongs. This is actually one prime advantage Ios seems to have over windows since it doesn't break existing programs when upgrading, and is another reason I'd like to investigate the actual bennifits (if any), of mac as opposed to windows 7 since if I've got to run xp in a virtual machine anyway, well it doesn't make too much difference whether I use mac or windows. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question Hi Dark, Actually, the reason I upgrade and urge others to do so has nothing to do with some misplaced intrinsic value of newer hardware, more ram, and having my computers run more efficiently as you stated. I am not that shallow. The real reason I upgrade and urge others to do so is that I see real benefits in upgrading, but those benefits do not necessarily apply to you personally. For example, as you know I happen to run a number of different operating systems concurrently on my laptop. That requires a lot of CPU power and ram to run more than one OS in memory at a time. A 64-bit system with a quad core processor and 8 GB of ram would have direct and immediate benefit to me because I can give Windows 8.1 the first three or four GB of ram for running everything and give the other three or four GB of ram over to the virtual machine to use. That way both operating systems will have plenty of memory and CPU power to work with. Since you are only using XP at this time and have no desire to use Linux or another version of Windows in a virtual machine having multiple processors and several GB of ram aren't as beneficial to you as they would be to me. There is no argument about that fact. There are other benefits that I value because I genuinely think that they are necessary. Security happens to be one of those things I think is worthwhile paying for. Not just because of some misplaced intrinsic value in system security, but because I am a computer professional and have dealt with my fair share of systems that have been compromised due to poor security. Either the end user failed to update their computer, they failed to keep their antivirus up to date, or they did something else to compromize their security which ended up costing them money to fix. To give you an example a couple of weeks ago one of my aunts was on the Internet when a little dialog popped up asking her to download an update for XP. She did, and as soon as she did it installed a nasty piece of ransomware onto her computer that took over her PC, encrypted her hard drive, and when she started the computer all that would come up is a dialog box asking her for her credit card number to unlock her PC. Since she could not pay the $1,000 to get rid of the ransomware I had to come over reformat her hard drive, reinstall XP, and restore the system back to factory defaults. You want to know why I think XP is a poor choice for people? For one thing Windows XP has a major security hole which viruses, addware, ransomeware, etc has been exploiting for years and that is the admin account. If you run XP as admin, AKA super user, any virus or piece of malware you download has free reign over your computer and if your antivirus etc fails to stop it the malware can totally wipe out your system just because there is no way to prevent it. My aunt had antivirus software on her system, but it didn't stop the ransomware that took over her machine, because there was no way of stopping it. Windows 8.1 does however have an extra layer of security called User Account Control. I know people turn it off, think it is a pain in the butt, but it does stop things like viruses and other malware cold. Before a piece of software can be installed or run UAC will pop up and prompt you to confirm the action. It will tell you the name of the program, the manufacturer, and so on. That feature has saved me more than once from a malware attack because I was able to catch it and kill the process before it could do anything to my machine. Perhaps if my aunt had been running Windows 8 she could have called someone and asked about running this fake Windows update before it took over her PC as UAC would have blocked it and prompted her to confirm the installation and encryption of her drive. Besides UAC Windows 8 and Windows 8.1
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi Dallas, Oh, that is for sure. You don't really know how much better a little speed boost will make in every day tasks such as saving files, starting programs, or opening files until you experience it first-hand. For example, I do a lot of work with audio such as editing sounds and music and when opening and saving files in Goldwave on my Compaq it can take up to a minute to open and save a wav file. Longer if I want to encode it as an mp3 file. Now, on my Toshiba it takes less than half that for the same file. It is not so much that I can make do with less memory and a slower CPU, I certainly can, but why waste time opening and saving files etc when there is better hardware that can do it in less time? That to me seems to be the essence of having newer and better hardware. There is benefits in having faster hardware even if it doesn't seem like a big deal at the time. Your computer starts faster, computer shuts down faster, programs start faster, you can open and save files faster, etc. After you get use to the added speed and performance your old computer seems slower than watching paint dry because you have a hire expectation for how long basic tasks should take. Cheers! On 12/19/13, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote: yep. go the windows defender. it's awesome! and very good too. and i have rarely found any scanner so accessible or simple to use. ok, it took microsoft about 10 or more years to do it, but it's there now. and it works well. and, as a side note, having a faster machine means that you get your every day tasks done with so much more smoothness and less hastle. wether you are wanting high speed performance for gaming, word processing, browsing the net, or what ever. it does make a difference to all tasks. it's offen hard to define what you would gain from it, till you have been on it for a while. only then, and then looking at your old system, do you realize just how much of a difference it has made to you. regards: Dallas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi Dark, Sigh...You are probably right about the fact that we have said all that can be said on this subject. I feel like I'm in a boxing match where neither person has made any impact on the other and all we are doing is going round after round not getting anywhere. However, before I close this topic I feel the need to make a correction. Visual Basic 6 apps and games still work on Windows 8. You have to take some extra steps to make them work correctly, but it certainly can be done. In fact, Microsoft released a patch for Windows 8 not too long ago that extends support for older Visual Basic 6 apps and games for the lifetime of Windows 8. So what you said about Microsoft mucking up compatibility with Visual Basic 6 is not true. They have in fact tried to maintain compatibility as long as necessary while getting programmers to adopt .NET instead. Even if it were true can you possibly try and see it from their point of view for once instead of looking at this from a biased position. Visual Basic 6 was released in 1998. That was 15 years ago for a totally different operating system and generation of computers than we are dealing with today. There were several third-party ActiveX components for 16-bit and 32-bit Windows that are no longer supported by their respective companies causing major problems with VB 6 applications. Since those ActiveX components are not made by Microsoft, not supported by Microsoft, those problems are strictly the problem with the third-party companies that developed them for Windows 98 etc. there are of course plenty of other problems with Visual Basic 6, and Microsoft made the right decision by phasing out the language and components in exchange for a newer and better technology called .NET which is far superior to VB 6 ever was. The problem is this.. Despite .NET being better in various ways many people were happy with VB 6 and chose not to upgrade to .NET. A lot of VI gamers so no benefit to them in learning VB .NET so didn't. That is why most of the games out there are still written in VB 6, and really should be rewritten or updated. That's not Microsoft's fault that various accessible games were written in Visual Basic 6. Microsoft made it clear 10 years ago that developers should begin migrating to .NET, and if developers didn't listen that is their problem. They were told what is what, and yet despite all that Microsoft does maintain some basic compatibility for VB 6 because they want you and others to upgrade, but they also want to begin migrating developers away from old outdated technologies too. With the accessible games community we seem to be caught in a classic chicken and egg type situation. A lot of blind users will not upgrade to Windows 7 or Windows 8 until game developers stop producing games for XP. Game developers know most of their customers use XP so are still developing games for XP, and are not looking at developing games for Windows 8 because there are not enough customers to justify such a change in development. One side or the other needs to break the cycle or it is just going to continue for several years to come neither side moving because they haven't gotten what they wanted, and will not until the other side takes the initiative. To give you an example a lot of blind game developers are still using Visual Basic 6. Well we already know it was developed for Windows 95 and Windows 98, but works fine on XP. As long as the lion's share of blind gamers continue using XP there is no incentive for Developer X to upgrade to VB .NET or something else. Although, there are some users like me using Windows 8.1 and we can put pressure on him/her to make more games for Windows 8 they aren't going to listen until a critical mass is reached and most of those XP users switch to Windows 8. However, most of those XP users aren't going to switch to Windows 8 until they absolutely have to and they are waiting on Developer X to drop XP support which Developer X won't until the XP users switch. So both sides are waiting on the other to blink first and we have a bit of a Mexican stand-off. I do not know what the answer is, but Microsoft really isn't at fault for the situation regardless of what you think. Accessible game developers could have began phasing out VB 6 a long time ago and didn't. Accessible gamers could upgrade to Windows 8 and request that game developers get with the times but won't. Until one or the other decides to get off their apathy we will have the same old problem. Cheers! On 12/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well tom I don't really believe there's much else to say since for me, security isn't an issue due to fhtird party software and I'd rather run avg than have the harrassment of running windows 8 and a virtual xp system. maybe that's different for you. if microsoft of course hadn't mucked up compatiblity with vb6 applications and dos programs, well I'd be happy to upgrade even with relearning the interface, and indeed I
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
well, I think people will start upgrading to windows7 and windows8 when xp support dies next year and their xp machines start getting infected with viruses and having major security flaws. and upgrading isn't really that hard or expensive. you can get a new dell latitude e4310 with windows7 from newegg for $280 or go to blaire technology group and get yourself a refurbished business machine there for $190 or less as well. I am happy with my two refurbished windows7 laptops that I got. they are not consumer refurbished they are 3 to 4 year old refurbished business machines which I on the one have 6gigs of ram and the other 4gigs of ram. they both work great! and all the tts engines and games I throw at them work great also. so guys go to newegg.com or blaire technology group and upgrade. oh, and, if you want send me your laptop and for $45 I'll set it up with the nvda screen reader, the apps you like and send it back. Josh using windows7 laptop On 12/19/2013 9:11 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dark, Sigh...You are probably right about the fact that we have said all that can be said on this subject. I feel like I'm in a boxing match where neither person has made any impact on the other and all we are doing is going round after round not getting anywhere. However, before I close this topic I feel the need to make a correction. Visual Basic 6 apps and games still work on Windows 8. You have to take some extra steps to make them work correctly, but it certainly can be done. In fact, Microsoft released a patch for Windows 8 not too long ago that extends support for older Visual Basic 6 apps and games for the lifetime of Windows 8. So what you said about Microsoft mucking up compatibility with Visual Basic 6 is not true. They have in fact tried to maintain compatibility as long as necessary while getting programmers to adopt .NET instead. Even if it were true can you possibly try and see it from their point of view for once instead of looking at this from a biased position. Visual Basic 6 was released in 1998. That was 15 years ago for a totally different operating system and generation of computers than we are dealing with today. There were several third-party ActiveX components for 16-bit and 32-bit Windows that are no longer supported by their respective companies causing major problems with VB 6 applications. Since those ActiveX components are not made by Microsoft, not supported by Microsoft, those problems are strictly the problem with the third-party companies that developed them for Windows 98 etc. there are of course plenty of other problems with Visual Basic 6, and Microsoft made the right decision by phasing out the language and components in exchange for a newer and better technology called .NET which is far superior to VB 6 ever was. The problem is this.. Despite .NET being better in various ways many people were happy with VB 6 and chose not to upgrade to .NET. A lot of VI gamers so no benefit to them in learning VB .NET so didn't. That is why most of the games out there are still written in VB 6, and really should be rewritten or updated. That's not Microsoft's fault that various accessible games were written in Visual Basic 6. Microsoft made it clear 10 years ago that developers should begin migrating to .NET, and if developers didn't listen that is their problem. They were told what is what, and yet despite all that Microsoft does maintain some basic compatibility for VB 6 because they want you and others to upgrade, but they also want to begin migrating developers away from old outdated technologies too. With the accessible games community we seem to be caught in a classic chicken and egg type situation. A lot of blind users will not upgrade to Windows 7 or Windows 8 until game developers stop producing games for XP. Game developers know most of their customers use XP so are still developing games for XP, and are not looking at developing games for Windows 8 because there are not enough customers to justify such a change in development. One side or the other needs to break the cycle or it is just going to continue for several years to come neither side moving because they haven't gotten what they wanted, and will not until the other side takes the initiative. To give you an example a lot of blind game developers are still using Visual Basic 6. Well we already know it was developed for Windows 95 and Windows 98, but works fine on XP. As long as the lion's share of blind gamers continue using XP there is no incentive for Developer X to upgrade to VB .NET or something else. Although, there are some users like me using Windows 8.1 and we can put pressure on him/her to make more games for Windows 8 they aren't going to listen until a critical mass is reached and most of those XP users switch to Windows 8. However, most of those XP users aren't going to switch to Windows 8 until they absolutely have to and they are waiting on Developer X to drop XP support which Developer X won't
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi Tom, Your discussion of VB6 was one of the best explanations of the situation I’ve seen on this list. We’re in the process of rewriting old titles to use the new Engine. The old ESP Softworks titles were all VB6. This is going to be an arduous transition, but we’ll get there, and the games will be better than ever when we do. It is unlikely we will continue supporting XP, though. As you stated, we have a Mexican stand off, and we can take this opportunity to move forward since Mac sales are so robust and Windows sales are definitely weaker. Sales of our new Windows titles have not warranted the effort we put into supporting XP. For future titles, if we can support it with minimal effort, we will. When the effort required to maintain support for XP exceeds a certain threshold though, we just can’t justify it. If Windows sales pick up and a lot of users are still using XP down the road, we may revisit the topic. As for those who blame Microsoft for incompatibilities with VB6, it is common for people with these types of views of the world to want to vilify any company once it reaches a certain size for absolutely everything, whether based on facts or not. I have no love for big corporations, either, but I’m also not naive enough to think that every one of them is the equivalent of Lord Voldemort. Remember, Apple is doomed because they use DRM on the music they sell in iTunes. They aren’t, and they don’t, and in fact haven’t had DRM in just about seven years now, but those kinds of knee jerk reactions lead to everything being someone else’s fault. Apple didn’t even have a choice with the DRM situation. The record labels dictated that situation. It’s unfortunate, because for the most part, people who take these kinds of views are hurting themselves more than anyone else. At least until they start spewing misinformation across the Internet. Microsoft surely hasn’t done developers, or themselves for that matter, any favors with a lot of idiotic decisions they’ve made over the last 15 years or so, but not everything is their fault, either. As I have said so often, the world is comprised of shades of gray. It is rarely, if ever, black and white. On Dec 19, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Sigh...You are probably right about the fact that we have said all that can be said on this subject. I feel like I'm in a boxing match where neither person has made any impact on the other and all we are doing is going round after round not getting anywhere. However, before I close this topic I feel the need to make a correction. Visual Basic 6 apps and games still work on Windows 8. You have to take some extra steps to make them work correctly, but it certainly can be done. In fact, Microsoft released a patch for Windows 8 not too long ago that extends support for older Visual Basic 6 apps and games for the lifetime of Windows 8. So what you said about Microsoft mucking up compatibility with Visual Basic 6 is not true. They have in fact tried to maintain compatibility as long as necessary while getting programmers to adopt .NET instead. Even if it were true can you possibly try and see it from their point of view for once instead of looking at this from a biased position. Visual Basic 6 was released in 1998. That was 15 years ago for a totally different operating system and generation of computers than we are dealing with today. There were several third-party ActiveX components for 16-bit and 32-bit Windows that are no longer supported by their respective companies causing major problems with VB 6 applications. Since those ActiveX components are not made by Microsoft, not supported by Microsoft, those problems are strictly the problem with the third-party companies that developed them for Windows 98 etc. there are of course plenty of other problems with Visual Basic 6, and Microsoft made the right decision by phasing out the language and components in exchange for a newer and better technology called .NET which is far superior to VB 6 ever was. The problem is this.. Despite .NET being better in various ways many people were happy with VB 6 and chose not to upgrade to .NET. A lot of VI gamers so no benefit to them in learning VB .NET so didn't. That is why most of the games out there are still written in VB 6, and really should be rewritten or updated. That's not Microsoft's fault that various accessible games were written in Visual Basic 6. Microsoft made it clear 10 years ago that developers should begin migrating to .NET, and if developers didn't listen that is their problem. They were told what is what, and yet despite all that Microsoft does maintain some basic compatibility for VB 6 because they want you and others to upgrade, but they also want to begin migrating developers away from old outdated technologies too. With the accessible games community we seem to be caught in a classic chicken and
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
hi. personally, I think it's time that the blind gaming community did what most of the real gaming industry did a while back. bring out a game, and say here you go, here are the requirements. its up to you how you deal with that. if a game dev brings out a game that takes advantage of newer hardware / newer software, I'm afraid it's up to the gamer to update and keep with it. they have done that for a long time now. and you don't seem to hear the complaints as much from them about it. sorry, but I think it's time the blind community starts trying to keep up, in stead of holding ourselves back, and then blaming Microsoft or apple or who ever, for all the things they have done wrong. sure. there are things that Microsoft messed up in windows 8. they fixed some of those in windows 8.1, and will soon be fixing more in the next version of windows, either next year, or in 2015. they admit they have made some mistakes, and are going about fixing that. but I'm afraid to say, that as time go's on, it will be harder and harder to support ancient languages and software based on them. it's not because they don't want to, but simply because the cost involved in doing so, is huge. I mean, come on. people are complaining about windows costing what it does now! imagine what they would say, if Microsoft turned around and said, well, we are going to have to charge an extra 50, or 100 dollars per licence, just to keep up support for 10 or 15 year old software and languages. I don't think that would go over well. and not being funny, but one of apples good sides, is that they don't do this. they say, right, here is the new system. this is what it uses. get used to it, or don't use our product. LOL. harsh, but in some ways, they have the right idea. just like they did with 64 bit. in stead of messing around having both 64 and 32 running on the same operating system in effect, as windows does now, they basically switched to pure 64 bit, and said, well, this is what we will use now. all app developers, update your software. I personally think windows should go all out 64 bit, and stop messing around. 64 bit is faster, and lets you actually use all your ram, in stead of only part of it. ahaha. even in XP, if you had 4 GB, you could never use it all! you could only use about 2 GB at any one time. how annoying! and programs running as a proper 64 bit app, are amazingly fast and smooth to work with. course, the only reason they haven't gotten rid of 32 bit, is cause most of the dev's still produce in nothing but 32 bit app's! such as mozilla, for one! they refuse to bring out a 64 bit version of their firefox or thunderbird! which is stupid, considering the security advantages 64 bit gives you. dallas On 20/12/2013, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Sigh...You are probably right about the fact that we have said all that can be said on this subject. I feel like I'm in a boxing match where neither person has made any impact on the other and all we are doing is going round after round not getting anywhere. However, before I close this topic I feel the need to make a correction. Visual Basic 6 apps and games still work on Windows 8. You have to take some extra steps to make them work correctly, but it certainly can be done. In fact, Microsoft released a patch for Windows 8 not too long ago that extends support for older Visual Basic 6 apps and games for the lifetime of Windows 8. So what you said about Microsoft mucking up compatibility with Visual Basic 6 is not true. They have in fact tried to maintain compatibility as long as necessary while getting programmers to adopt .NET instead. Even if it were true can you possibly try and see it from their point of view for once instead of looking at this from a biased position. Visual Basic 6 was released in 1998. That was 15 years ago for a totally different operating system and generation of computers than we are dealing with today. There were several third-party ActiveX components for 16-bit and 32-bit Windows that are no longer supported by their respective companies causing major problems with VB 6 applications. Since those ActiveX components are not made by Microsoft, not supported by Microsoft, those problems are strictly the problem with the third-party companies that developed them for Windows 98 etc. there are of course plenty of other problems with Visual Basic 6, and Microsoft made the right decision by phasing out the language and components in exchange for a newer and better technology called .NET which is far superior to VB 6 ever was. The problem is this.. Despite .NET being better in various ways many people were happy with VB 6 and chose not to upgrade to .NET. A lot of VI gamers so no benefit to them in learning VB .NET so didn't. That is why most of the games out there are still written in VB 6, and really should be rewritten or updated. That's not Microsoft's fault that various accessible games were written in
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi Tom. to be honest I don't agree with you about microsoft simply because of the money involved. on xp I can run programs for dos written in qbasic, C and goodness knows what from 20 years ago. That is a huge corpus of material. Up to xp microsoft had a care for all that legacy support which is why I can download copies of even something like the dos version of hunt the wumpus from 1978 and run it. You could write a program in basic and it'd be fine on xp today, just as was the original plan for Eamon deluxe. With post xp windows however microsoft are following a model of upgrade or else to both devs and users alike, and no, I don't accept the arguement that microsoft couldn't include this support indeed the fact that they've seen the light with respect to vb6 shows that they could and were just being money grubbing with their phase out, (you yourself admit the price for all the vb net stuff). With games, well it's not just the case of running or not running so much as capabilities. A developer like Jim kitchin who has worked in vb6 for years, well what bennifits are there to him to running vb net other than the extra harrassment caused by microsoft and the need to buy new vb net tools. Also, would Jim Kitchin's games be any better for using vb net or another programming language than using vb 6? I don't kow, not being a programmer but that is also a question which needs answering. Ultimately it comes down as I said to bennifits. Whichever way you cut the cookie upgrading is a hassle, and a hassle which microsoft have only made worse with their buggered up interface and lack of compatibility, a fact which I'm glad to see they are at least recognizing with their including of vb6 support (I've heard lots of stories of things not working on windows 8 so it's good that microsoft are finally seeing some sense at least). To your stand off question well to be honest as I said if microsoft had done a better job with windows 7 we wouldn't be having this conversation. Maybe windows 8, maybe windows 9, maybe a future version will be better. I'm confident enough myself that something better than xp will! come along in the future which will make myself and others change, but until then well if people keep using xp and developers keep writing for it, what is so wrong with that? it's like laser disks and dvds. Back in the mid 1990's, I knew someone who had bought a new laser disk system. He claimed the video and sound were better, and all the technical bits were there and asked why I and other still used video. We said we used video becuase there were still more good films on video to watch than laserdisk, even though laserdisk was technically a better format. Of course 10 or so years later, and dvd replaced video, and myself and everyone else got to change our videos for dvds because there are now much better and cheaper films available on dvd than video, and most things that were originally video have been ported to dvd, and laserdisk has fallen by the way side, however had we migrated to laserdisk just because it was technically better we'd have not been any better off now. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Dark, I'd just like to point out some misinformation in this post, and some misunderstandings about Mac and iOS. First, you said that iOS apps never have compatibility issues with iOS upgrades. This is definitely not the case. Several apps, including Solara (to bring this somewhat back to games) had some serious bugs running on IOS 7, and some apps were completely unusable until the developers released updates to fix compatibility. Second, if you're looking for an OS that places a high priority on backward compatibility, you're not going to get it from OS X. Apple is much more aggressive about discontinuing old API's and technologies and removing them than even Microsoft is. Allow me to illustrate this. In 2005, Apple switched from using the Power PC processor architecture to the Intel X86/X64 architecture used by Windows PC's. In order to provide backward-compatibility for PowerPC applications, Apple included a PpC emulator called Rosetta. The last PPC-compatible OS X version was 10.5, released in 2007. Version 10.6, released in 2009, was not compatible with PowerPC hardware, but stil supported Rosetta. However, the next version, released in 2011, removed Rosetta support. Let's say that, for example, BSC Games had written their software for Mac instead of Windows. If I'm not mistaken, Pipe 2 was last updated in February 2005, a few months before Apple announced the Intel transition. Within just six years, you would no longer be able to run the game on newer versions of the OS. You could just refuse to update to a newer OS, but once your machine broke, you'd have no choice but to hunt down parts on eBay or be forced to stop using any incompatible software. On 12/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well tom I don't really believe there's much else to say since for me, security isn't an issue due to fhtird party software and I'd rather run avg than have the harrassment of running windows 8 and a virtual xp system. maybe that's different for you. if microsoft of course hadn't mucked up compatiblity with vb6 applications and dos programs, well I'd be happy to upgrade even with relearning the interface, and indeed I imagine everyone else currently running xp would as well, so it's certain where the blaime for this situation belongs. This is actually one prime advantage Ios seems to have over windows since it doesn't break existing programs when upgrading, and is another reason I'd like to investigate the actual bennifits (if any), of mac as opposed to windows 7 since if I've got to run xp in a virtual machine anyway, well it doesn't make too much difference whether I use mac or windows. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi Alex, Just adding a bit to your comments. Apple’s aggressive strategy regarding software upgrades tends to keep their platforms more robust and stable, but comes at the cost of some backward compatibility. That said, though, Apple has also made it extremely easy for developers to keep their software current, regardless of platform. Indeed, migrating from PPC to Intel was a painless transition for the vast majority of developers. Far more trivial than trying to upgrade VB6 apps, even under the best of circumstances. Much has been written, in fact, on just how good Apple has gotten at these kinds of technological transitions, and they get smoother and smoother as the years go by. So far, the major transitions have been: • OS Classic to OS X • Carbon to Cocoa • PPC to Intel • 32 bit to 64 bit Intel • 32 to 64 bit mobile I’m hoping that Microsoft will learn from its mistakes and adopt some similar strategies going forward. On Dec 19, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote: Dark, I'd just like to point out some misinformation in this post, and some misunderstandings about Mac and iOS. First, you said that iOS apps never have compatibility issues with iOS upgrades. This is definitely not the case. Several apps, including Solara (to bring this somewhat back to games) had some serious bugs running on IOS 7, and some apps were completely unusable until the developers released updates to fix compatibility. Second, if you're looking for an OS that places a high priority on backward compatibility, you're not going to get it from OS X. Apple is much more aggressive about discontinuing old API's and technologies and removing them than even Microsoft is. Allow me to illustrate this. In 2005, Apple switched from using the Power PC processor architecture to the Intel X86/X64 architecture used by Windows PC's. In order to provide backward-compatibility for PowerPC applications, Apple included a PpC emulator called Rosetta. The last PPC-compatible OS X version was 10.5, released in 2007. Version 10.6, released in 2009, was not compatible with PowerPC hardware, but stil supported Rosetta. However, the next version, released in 2011, removed Rosetta support. Let's say that, for example, BSC Games had written their software for Mac instead of Windows. If I'm not mistaken, Pipe 2 was last updated in February 2005, a few months before Apple announced the Intel transition. Within just six years, you would no longer be able to run the game on newer versions of the OS. You could just refuse to update to a newer OS, but once your machine broke, you'd have no choice but to hunt down parts on eBay or be forced to stop using any incompatible software. On 12/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well tom I don't really believe there's much else to say since for me, security isn't an issue due to fhtird party software and I'd rather run avg than have the harrassment of running windows 8 and a virtual xp system. maybe that's different for you. if microsoft of course hadn't mucked up compatiblity with vb6 applications and dos programs, well I'd be happy to upgrade even with relearning the interface, and indeed I imagine everyone else currently running xp would as well, so it's certain where the blaime for this situation belongs. This is actually one prime advantage Ios seems to have over windows since it doesn't break existing programs when upgrading, and is another reason I'd like to investigate the actual bennifits (if any), of mac as opposed to windows 7 since if I've got to run xp in a virtual machine anyway, well it doesn't make too much difference whether I use mac or windows. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi, Yes, I would definitely agree that Apple has always handled these transitions very well, much better than Microsoft. I think one reason for this is MS's large number of Enterprise customers. Enterprises tend to migrate to newer technologies extremely slowly, and I think this is holding MS back in many ways. There are several bugs in the Windows API that MS has left in because fixing them would break enterprise deployments of older software. I think Apple's relatively lower success in the enterprise is a good thing, as it allows them to evolve their products much more easily. On 12/19/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Alex, Just adding a bit to your comments. Apple’s aggressive strategy regarding software upgrades tends to keep their platforms more robust and stable, but comes at the cost of some backward compatibility. That said, though, Apple has also made it extremely easy for developers to keep their software current, regardless of platform. Indeed, migrating from PPC to Intel was a painless transition for the vast majority of developers. Far more trivial than trying to upgrade VB6 apps, even under the best of circumstances. Much has been written, in fact, on just how good Apple has gotten at these kinds of technological transitions, and they get smoother and smoother as the years go by. So far, the major transitions have been: • OS Classic to OS X • Carbon to Cocoa • PPC to Intel • 32 bit to 64 bit Intel • 32 to 64 bit mobile I’m hoping that Microsoft will learn from its mistakes and adopt some similar strategies going forward. On Dec 19, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote: Dark, I'd just like to point out some misinformation in this post, and some misunderstandings about Mac and iOS. First, you said that iOS apps never have compatibility issues with iOS upgrades. This is definitely not the case. Several apps, including Solara (to bring this somewhat back to games) had some serious bugs running on IOS 7, and some apps were completely unusable until the developers released updates to fix compatibility. Second, if you're looking for an OS that places a high priority on backward compatibility, you're not going to get it from OS X. Apple is much more aggressive about discontinuing old API's and technologies and removing them than even Microsoft is. Allow me to illustrate this. In 2005, Apple switched from using the Power PC processor architecture to the Intel X86/X64 architecture used by Windows PC's. In order to provide backward-compatibility for PowerPC applications, Apple included a PpC emulator called Rosetta. The last PPC-compatible OS X version was 10.5, released in 2007. Version 10.6, released in 2009, was not compatible with PowerPC hardware, but stil supported Rosetta. However, the next version, released in 2011, removed Rosetta support. Let's say that, for example, BSC Games had written their software for Mac instead of Windows. If I'm not mistaken, Pipe 2 was last updated in February 2005, a few months before Apple announced the Intel transition. Within just six years, you would no longer be able to run the game on newer versions of the OS. You could just refuse to update to a newer OS, but once your machine broke, you'd have no choice but to hunt down parts on eBay or be forced to stop using any incompatible software. On 12/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well tom I don't really believe there's much else to say since for me, security isn't an issue due to fhtird party software and I'd rather run avg than have the harrassment of running windows 8 and a virtual xp system. maybe that's different for you. if microsoft of course hadn't mucked up compatiblity with vb6 applications and dos programs, well I'd be happy to upgrade even with relearning the interface, and indeed I imagine everyone else currently running xp would as well, so it's certain where the blaime for this situation belongs. This is actually one prime advantage Ios seems to have over windows since it doesn't break existing programs when upgrading, and is another reason I'd like to investigate the actual bennifits (if any), of mac as opposed to windows 7 since if I've got to run xp in a virtual machine anyway, well it doesn't make too much difference whether I use mac or windows. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
hi, it's not only that, but simply because apple's user base is actually nothing, when it comes to a number situation. they have all of about 50 to 70 million users on mac, not all of which are up to date, but more then not. then Microsoft, has over 1.5 billion! users in windows. they have more people to please then apple. apple can get away with jumping to something different in an instant, cause half the world doesn't rely on them. where as for Microsoft, 95 percent of the entire computing world rely's on them. lol. that's a lot of responsibility. Dallas On 20/12/2013, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Yes, I would definitely agree that Apple has always handled these transitions very well, much better than Microsoft. I think one reason for this is MS's large number of Enterprise customers. Enterprises tend to migrate to newer technologies extremely slowly, and I think this is holding MS back in many ways. There are several bugs in the Windows API that MS has left in because fixing them would break enterprise deployments of older software. I think Apple's relatively lower success in the enterprise is a good thing, as it allows them to evolve their products much more easily. On 12/19/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Alex, Just adding a bit to your comments. Apple’s aggressive strategy regarding software upgrades tends to keep their platforms more robust and stable, but comes at the cost of some backward compatibility. That said, though, Apple has also made it extremely easy for developers to keep their software current, regardless of platform. Indeed, migrating from PPC to Intel was a painless transition for the vast majority of developers. Far more trivial than trying to upgrade VB6 apps, even under the best of circumstances. Much has been written, in fact, on just how good Apple has gotten at these kinds of technological transitions, and they get smoother and smoother as the years go by. So far, the major transitions have been: • OS Classic to OS X • Carbon to Cocoa • PPC to Intel • 32 bit to 64 bit Intel • 32 to 64 bit mobile I’m hoping that Microsoft will learn from its mistakes and adopt some similar strategies going forward. On Dec 19, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote: Dark, I'd just like to point out some misinformation in this post, and some misunderstandings about Mac and iOS. First, you said that iOS apps never have compatibility issues with iOS upgrades. This is definitely not the case. Several apps, including Solara (to bring this somewhat back to games) had some serious bugs running on IOS 7, and some apps were completely unusable until the developers released updates to fix compatibility. Second, if you're looking for an OS that places a high priority on backward compatibility, you're not going to get it from OS X. Apple is much more aggressive about discontinuing old API's and technologies and removing them than even Microsoft is. Allow me to illustrate this. In 2005, Apple switched from using the Power PC processor architecture to the Intel X86/X64 architecture used by Windows PC's. In order to provide backward-compatibility for PowerPC applications, Apple included a PpC emulator called Rosetta. The last PPC-compatible OS X version was 10.5, released in 2007. Version 10.6, released in 2009, was not compatible with PowerPC hardware, but stil supported Rosetta. However, the next version, released in 2011, removed Rosetta support. Let's say that, for example, BSC Games had written their software for Mac instead of Windows. If I'm not mistaken, Pipe 2 was last updated in February 2005, a few months before Apple announced the Intel transition. Within just six years, you would no longer be able to run the game on newer versions of the OS. You could just refuse to update to a newer OS, but once your machine broke, you'd have no choice but to hunt down parts on eBay or be forced to stop using any incompatible software. On 12/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well tom I don't really believe there's much else to say since for me, security isn't an issue due to fhtird party software and I'd rather run avg than have the harrassment of running windows 8 and a virtual xp system. maybe that's different for you. if microsoft of course hadn't mucked up compatiblity with vb6 applications and dos programs, well I'd be happy to upgrade even with relearning the interface, and indeed I imagine everyone else currently running xp would as well, so it's certain where the blaime for this situation belongs. This is actually one prime advantage Ios seems to have over windows since it doesn't break existing programs when upgrading, and is another reason I'd like to investigate the actual bennifits (if any), of mac as opposed to windows 7 since if I've got to run xp in a virtual machine anyway, well it doesn't make too much difference whether I use mac or windows.
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Well Dallas, your supposition doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny, since Apple has, and does, major transitions on iOS all the time, and there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 to 700 million iOS devices in use. A much more key difference is that, with Apple products, the hardware and software are integrated in such a way as to vastly improve reliability and cut down on the infinity numbers of configurations and complexity we see in PC’s. Makers of game consoles also use an integrated strategy, and we are seeing it adopted by more and more electronics companies, because it simply works, and provides users with a superior experience. Microsoft is slowly dabbling with integrated products, first with the restrictions on Windows Phone hardware and then by producing the Surface RT and Surface Pro. They have, of course, done this for quite some time with Xbox. So the sheer number of users really has little to do with it. It’s simply that Apple has historically done this better. On Dec 19, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote: hi, it's not only that, but simply because apple's user base is actually nothing, when it comes to a number situation. they have all of about 50 to 70 million users on mac, not all of which are up to date, but more then not. then Microsoft, has over 1.5 billion! users in windows. they have more people to please then apple. apple can get away with jumping to something different in an instant, cause half the world doesn't rely on them. where as for Microsoft, 95 percent of the entire computing world rely's on them. lol. that's a lot of responsibility. Dallas On 20/12/2013, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Yes, I would definitely agree that Apple has always handled these transitions very well, much better than Microsoft. I think one reason for this is MS's large number of Enterprise customers. Enterprises tend to migrate to newer technologies extremely slowly, and I think this is holding MS back in many ways. There are several bugs in the Windows API that MS has left in because fixing them would break enterprise deployments of older software. I think Apple's relatively lower success in the enterprise is a good thing, as it allows them to evolve their products much more easily. On 12/19/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Alex, Just adding a bit to your comments. Apple’s aggressive strategy regarding software upgrades tends to keep their platforms more robust and stable, but comes at the cost of some backward compatibility. That said, though, Apple has also made it extremely easy for developers to keep their software current, regardless of platform. Indeed, migrating from PPC to Intel was a painless transition for the vast majority of developers. Far more trivial than trying to upgrade VB6 apps, even under the best of circumstances. Much has been written, in fact, on just how good Apple has gotten at these kinds of technological transitions, and they get smoother and smoother as the years go by. So far, the major transitions have been: • OS Classic to OS X • Carbon to Cocoa • PPC to Intel • 32 bit to 64 bit Intel • 32 to 64 bit mobile I’m hoping that Microsoft will learn from its mistakes and adopt some similar strategies going forward. On Dec 19, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote: Dark, I'd just like to point out some misinformation in this post, and some misunderstandings about Mac and iOS. First, you said that iOS apps never have compatibility issues with iOS upgrades. This is definitely not the case. Several apps, including Solara (to bring this somewhat back to games) had some serious bugs running on IOS 7, and some apps were completely unusable until the developers released updates to fix compatibility. Second, if you're looking for an OS that places a high priority on backward compatibility, you're not going to get it from OS X. Apple is much more aggressive about discontinuing old API's and technologies and removing them than even Microsoft is. Allow me to illustrate this. In 2005, Apple switched from using the Power PC processor architecture to the Intel X86/X64 architecture used by Windows PC's. In order to provide backward-compatibility for PowerPC applications, Apple included a PpC emulator called Rosetta. The last PPC-compatible OS X version was 10.5, released in 2007. Version 10.6, released in 2009, was not compatible with PowerPC hardware, but stil supported Rosetta. However, the next version, released in 2011, removed Rosetta support. Let's say that, for example, BSC Games had written their software for Mac instead of Windows. If I'm not mistaken, Pipe 2 was last updated in February 2005, a few months before Apple announced the Intel transition. Within just six years, you would no longer be able to run the game on newer versions of the OS. You could just refuse to update to a newer OS,
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Just an interesting tidbit on this discussion. Marco Arment, original developer of Tumblr, InstaaPaper, and the Magazine, has been doing some research today regarding the release of the Mac Pros and how they compare to PC’s of similar spec. His comparisons are with the $3999 Mac Pro. For a similar Dell with slower SSD drives and no Thunderbolt ports, the price was $4034. The Dell did come bundled with a keyboard and mouse, but of course the real hit will be with the SSD’s. For an HP that was even closer in spec, the price was $5699. He usually writes blog posts when he does this kind of research, so I’ll share that link if he does. Macs are not more expensive. Apple just doesn’t care to compete for the low-end of the market. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
Hi Josh, I definitely agree with your points. As far as USA Games is concerned we aren't going out of our way to drop support for XP, but neither are we going to go out of our way to support it. At some point when we begin adopting newer Windows components and if it isn't XP compatible too bad. As I stated I am already running Windows 8.1 and as lead developer I can take advantage of various new components, modern hardware, and I see no need to cripple my software because x number of gamers won't upgrade. I may take a loss initially, but I am also looking at supporting Mac and perhaps Linux in time which will recoup the losses in sales to XP users. So I am not as concerned about XP support as I might be if I were only looking at the Windows market specifically. Cheers! On 12/19/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Tom, Your discussion of VB6 was one of the best explanations of the situation I’ve seen on this list. We’re in the process of rewriting old titles to use the new Engine. The old ESP Softworks titles were all VB6. This is going to be an arduous transition, but we’ll get there, and the games will be better than ever when we do. It is unlikely we will continue supporting XP, though. As you stated, we have a Mexican stand off, and we can take this opportunity to move forward since Mac sales are so robust and Windows sales are definitely weaker. Sales of our new Windows titles have not warranted the effort we put into supporting XP. For future titles, if we can support it with minimal effort, we will. When the effort required to maintain support for XP exceeds a certain threshold though, we just can’t justify it. If Windows sales pick up and a lot of users are still using XP down the road, we may revisit the topic. As for those who blame Microsoft for incompatibilities with VB6, it is common for people with these types of views of the world to want to vilify any company once it reaches a certain size for absolutely everything, whether based on facts or not. I have no love for big corporations, either, but I’m also not naive enough to think that every one of them is the equivalent of Lord Voldemort. Remember, Apple is doomed because they use DRM on the music they sell in iTunes. They aren’t, and they don’t, and in fact haven’t had DRM in just about seven years now, but those kinds of knee jerk reactions lead to everything being someone else’s fault. Apple didn’t even have a choice with the DRM situation. The record labels dictated that situation. It’s unfortunate, because for the most part, people who take these kinds of views are hurting themselves more than anyone else. At least until they start spewing misinformation across the Internet. Microsoft surely hasn’t done developers, or themselves for that matter, any favors with a lot of idiotic decisions they’ve made over the last 15 years or so, but not everything is their fault, either. As I have said so often, the world is comprised of shades of gray. It is rarely, if ever, black and white. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Windows curing Windows - Re: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
I've noticed a trend with Microsoft operating systems. Windows 3.1 was terrible, the next version fixed a lot of the problems but had problems of it's own, which were fixed in the next version that had bugs of it's own, and so it continues even today. Remember Windows ME? Rushed onto the market too quickly and really turned a lot of people off. Windows 7 was to have been the cure, and Windows 8 was to have been the cure for 7, and now 8.1 is the band-aid for 8.0. Apple, apparently, does it's homework before selling us the test papers, and only minor corrections are needed to fix the mistakes. When OS7 came out for iDevices, it actually wasn't all that long until the major flaws for Voice-Over users were ironed out. It wasn't very long after 7.0 was released that 7.4 was released, and it's working pretty well. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question Hi Tom. to be honest I don't agree with you about microsoft simply because of the money involved. on xp I can run programs for dos written in qbasic, C and goodness knows what from 20 years ago. That is a huge corpus of material. Up to xp microsoft had a care for all that legacy support which is why I can download copies of even something like the dos version of hunt the wumpus from 1978 and run it. You could write a program in basic and it'd be fine on xp today, just as was the original plan for Eamon deluxe. With post xp windows however microsoft are following a model of upgrade or else to both devs and users alike, and no, I don't accept the arguement that microsoft couldn't include this support indeed the fact that they've seen the light with respect to vb6 shows that they could and were just being money grubbing with their phase out, (you yourself admit the price for all the vb net stuff). With games, well it's not just the case of running or not running so much as capabilities. A developer like Jim kitchin who has worked in vb6 for years, well what bennifits are there to him to running vb net other than the extra harrassment caused by microsoft and the need to buy new vb net tools. Also, would Jim Kitchin's games be any better for using vb net or another programming language than using vb 6? I don't kow, not being a programmer but that is also a question which needs answering. Ultimately it comes down as I said to bennifits. Whichever way you cut the cookie upgrading is a hassle, and a hassle which microsoft have only made worse with their buggered up interface and lack of compatibility, a fact which I'm glad to see they are at least recognizing with their including of vb6 support (I've heard lots of stories of things not working on windows 8 so it's good that microsoft are finally seeing some sense at least). To your stand off question well to be honest as I said if microsoft had done a better job with windows 7 we wouldn't be having this conversation. Maybe windows 8, maybe windows 9, maybe a future version will be better. I'm confident enough myself that something better than xp will! come along in the future which will make myself and others change, but until then well if people keep using xp and developers keep writing for it, what is so wrong with that? it's like laser disks and dvds. Back in the mid 1990's, I knew someone who had bought a new laser disk system. He claimed the video and sound were better, and all the technical bits were there and asked why I and other still used video. We said we used video becuase there were still more good films on video to watch than laserdisk, even though laserdisk was technically a better format. Of course 10 or so years later, and dvd replaced video, and myself and everyone else got to change our videos for dvds because there are now much better and cheaper films available on dvd than video, and most things that were originally video have been ported to dvd, and laserdisk has fallen by the way side, however had we migrated to laserdisk just because it was technically better we'd have not been any better off now. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
[Audyssey] Harry Potter muds
Hi, all. I've visited www.mudconnector.com and have seen several listings for Harry Potter-themed muds. However, none of them seems workable. When I try to log onto any of them, I get a blank screen. So, can anyone recommend a good Harry Potter mud? If so, can you provide the connection info, as what's listed online doesn't seem to be working. Thanks in advance. Shannon --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Harry Potter muds
is it possible to play muds that or not listed in vip mud On 12/19/13, Shannon Dyer solsticesin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, all. I've visited www.mudconnector.com and have seen several listings for Harry Potter-themed muds. However, none of them seems workable. When I try to log onto any of them, I get a blank screen. So, can anyone recommend a good Harry Potter mud? If so, can you provide the connection info, as what's listed online doesn't seem to be working. Thanks in advance. Shannon --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Windows 8
Dear all, I would like to express the fact that Windows 8 is not all that bad. This is due to a couple updates (I am referring of course to Windows 8.1.) Windows 8 has some really awesome controls. However, you must get used to the fact that there is now a new way the start menu functions. For what I am doing on Windows 8, (playing RS Games, using the Internet, watching audio described movies on the System Access Mobile Network.), it works like a charm. I will have --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Windows 8
I will admit that I was rather disappointed that Swamp did not function on my machine. However, that is quite a miniscule issue that myself, being experienced, can handle. Signed, Steven On 12/19/13, Esteban Argel earge...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I would like to express the fact that Windows 8 is not all that bad. This is due to a couple updates (I am referring of course to Windows 8.1.) Windows 8 has some really awesome controls. However, you must get used to the fact that there is now a new way the start menu functions. For what I am doing on Windows 8, (playing RS Games, using the Internet, watching audio described movies on the System Access Mobile Network.), it works like a charm. I will have --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
If you can take advantage of more modern tools to develop games, but a lot of gamers cannot, where does that leave you? --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question Hi Josh, I definitely agree with your points. As far as USA Games is concerned we aren't going out of our way to drop support for XP, but neither are we going to go out of our way to support it. At some point when we begin adopting newer Windows components and if it isn't XP compatible too bad. As I stated I am already running Windows 8.1 and as lead developer I can take advantage of various new components, modern hardware, and I see no need to cripple my software because x number of gamers won't upgrade. I may take a loss initially, but I am also looking at supporting Mac and perhaps Linux in time which will recoup the losses in sales to XP users. So I am not as concerned about XP support as I might be if I were only looking at the Windows market specifically. Cheers! On 12/19/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Tom, Your discussion of VB6 was one of the best explanations of the situation I’ve seen on this list. We’re in the process of rewriting old titles to use the new Engine. The old ESP Softworks titles were all VB6. This is going to be an arduous transition, but we’ll get there, and the games will be better than ever when we do. It is unlikely we will continue supporting XP, though. As you stated, we have a Mexican stand off, and we can take this opportunity to move forward since Mac sales are so robust and Windows sales are definitely weaker. Sales of our new Windows titles have not warranted the effort we put into supporting XP. For future titles, if we can support it with minimal effort, we will. When the effort required to maintain support for XP exceeds a certain threshold though, we just can’t justify it. If Windows sales pick up and a lot of users are still using XP down the road, we may revisit the topic. As for those who blame Microsoft for incompatibilities with VB6, it is common for people with these types of views of the world to want to vilify any company once it reaches a certain size for absolutely everything, whether based on facts or not. I have no love for big corporations, either, but I’m also not naive enough to think that every one of them is the equivalent of Lord Voldemort. Remember, Apple is doomed because they use DRM on the music they sell in iTunes. They aren’t, and they don’t, and in fact haven’t had DRM in just about seven years now, but those kinds of knee jerk reactions lead to everything being someone else’s fault. Apple didn’t even have a choice with the DRM situation. The record labels dictated that situation. It’s unfortunate, because for the most part, people who take these kinds of views are hurting themselves more than anyone else. At least until they start spewing misinformation across the Internet. Microsoft surely hasn’t done developers, or themselves for that matter, any favors with a lot of idiotic decisions they’ve made over the last 15 years or so, but not everything is their fault, either. As I have said so often, the world is comprised of shades of gray. It is rarely, if ever, black and white. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I agree here as well. I also listen to professional wrestling, and there is wrestling involved. I once asked my cousin what the RKO was like, and he put the move on me, but didn't do it full force. Kenny Peyatt -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:38 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, Yes, I do see your point, but as I pointed out in professional wrestling there is both wrestling and a lot of the extra stuff you mentioned. The WWE is definitely one for having a lot of artistic stunt work such as throwing people through tables, people getting thrown from ladders, being beat over the head with steel chairs, the reff getting knocked out during a critical point in the match, and I agree that stuff is not wrestling. That stuff is just stunt work to keep the fans interested in the ongoing storyline. However, at the same time there is some very technical wrestling involved here which you seem to be ignoring. Every pro show I have ever watched has some basic wrestling such as reverse chinlocks, headlocks, arm drags, hip tosses, and so forth which are just as apart of an amateur match as a pro show. If that stuff is not wrestling then what is it? I guess it sounds to me you are making a case for all or nothing which I don't think it is that black and white. From what I am getting from your messages if pro wrestling is half wrestling and half stunt work then it is not wrestling. However, if you go to your local high school match which has no stunt work and 100% wrestling that is wrestling. That is just too black and white for me as I think there is a gray area here that you seem to be overlooking. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: When I used to watch the wrestlers on TV, they would use something to cut the opponent, break chairs on heads, put the referee out of commission, and stuff like that. This is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Windows 8
interesting, swamp works perfectly fine over here, on both windows 8, and now, on windows 8.1. not sure what problem you were having, but it should be working. Dallas On 20/12/2013, Esteban Argel earge...@gmail.com wrote: I will admit that I was rather disappointed that Swamp did not function on my machine. However, that is quite a miniscule issue that myself, being experienced, can handle. Signed, Steven On 12/19/13, Esteban Argel earge...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I would like to express the fact that Windows 8 is not all that bad. This is due to a couple updates (I am referring of course to Windows 8.1.) Windows 8 has some really awesome controls. However, you must get used to the fact that there is now a new way the start menu functions. For what I am doing on Windows 8, (playing RS Games, using the Internet, watching audio described movies on the System Access Mobile Network.), it works like a charm. I will have --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Dark, I think show wrestling is an accurate description. Obviously,, there is a lot of wrestling involved such as various grapples, submission holds, and technical throws, but unlike in Olympic wrestling the WWE, TNA, etc employ a lot of theatrical stunts such as attacking people with chairs, throwing people off ladders, throwing them through tables, etc which is used to add more drama to the matches. It isn't so much that it is not wrestling but that the matches are contrived for the audiences benefit to fit into a larger storyline and rivalry. For example, for several months now Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton have been in a contested rivalry for the WWE Championship. Now in football, baseball, basketball, or any real sport nobody would get away with the various things Randy Orton has done to hold onto the championship. Much less have the COO of the company knock out the competition to help him win as Triple H did back at Summerslam or have the guest referee knock out the opponent like at Hell in a Cell. All of that is obviously just for show, and is merely there to entertain the audience and make them want to see the next PPV to see how the rivalry turns out. My basic point is that it is wrestling in a very broad sense. It is just that pro wrestling is more show wrestling rather than wrestling as a sport. If someone wants a more pure sport oriented wrestling then they need to watch the Olympics, go to their local high school and watch their high school wrestling team, or go to college wrestling matches. It all depends on how black and white you view the situation, and I think Charles is being a bit too black and white when he said pro wrestling is not wrestling. Cheers! On 12/18/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I do sort of see charlse point here, that pro wrestling with the staged matches, supposed foul moves etc isn't exactly the same as another professional sport, even another combat sport like boxing or olypic wrestling or competitive martial arts. I wouldn't say it's not wrestling though since as has been pointed out it does employ many legitimate wrestling holds, move and throws, and indeed wrestlers like Curt Angle actually have done both the WWE style of wrestling and the real thing in the Olympics. I have heard people who do mixed martial arts and the like who utilise many wrestling holds describe it as show wrestling which seems an accurate description. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Teresa, Exactly. The big companies like the WWE don't even pretend to treat wrestling as an actual sport or claim that the competitions are real. They call pro wrestling sports entertainment which basically emphasizes the fact it is entertainment like a sport but is not really a sport the way football, basketball, etc is. It is if anything, as you said, just some mindless fun watching some burly guys or a couple of hot women tossing each other around the ring for a while occasionally using a foreign object like a steel chair to knock out the opponent for the win. It is all for show and is all for fun. Leave it at that. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote: Pro wrestling doesn't pretend to be a sport in the same way that hockey, basketball, and don't forget football. You take or leave the violence, because it's an inherent part of the experience. It's not meant to be competetive. It doesn't even pretend to be that. It's mindless fun, IMO. I like a little mindless fun every once in awhile. Teresa Sent using Alpine messaging system in Mac OS X Terminal --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Harry Potter muds
Yes, if you know the server address and port, just go to add new and enter the detales and the mud should appeare in the list. -Original Message- From: lenron brown Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 3:04 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Harry Potter muds is it possible to play muds that or not listed in vip mud On 12/19/13, Shannon Dyer solsticesin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, all. I've visited www.mudconnector.com and have seen several listings for Harry Potter-themed muds. However, none of them seems workable. When I try to log onto any of them, I get a blank screen. So, can anyone recommend a good Harry Potter mud? If so, can you provide the connection info, as what's listed online doesn't seem to be working. Thanks in advance. Shannon --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
