Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Hi aprone. I can imagine hackers trying to muck up the game to cheat, but to do it simply to cause trouble is down right scummy, particularly because it's likely these hackers are probably visually impared themselves since they wouldn't have heard of the game otherwise, which makes it doubly pathetic given that swamp is one of only a few accessible games of this type. it's a shame your Ai can't give them a really nasty virus in return, the T virus would suit very well! :D. sorry, resident evil joke there. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Dark, From sighted indie games of my past, I'm used to the idea of hackers trying to ruin everyone's fun, so that doesn't upset me as much as others might think. Yeah it does annoy me, but I don't take it quite as personal as maybe I should, just because I've seen it for so many years. What does get under my skin is that several of the Swamp hackers have changed tactics over the past 4 or 5 months, and they go after my personal property. In fact, in just the past few weeks with the new testing server up I've had 2 pretty big attacks that were aimed at damaging my laptop, not Swamp! I highly doubt these people are smart enough to be developing these attacks themselves, rather they probably find shady websites and download tools to make these attacks for them, but that doesn't change the situation very much. The last one was an attack I've personally never seen before. The automated attack went through each of the devices in my local LAN and spammed them with a huge list of common login names and passwords, hoping they'd get luck on one of them. This is the kind of stuff that could eventually ruin multiplayer audio games just like most multiplayer mainstream indie games have happen to them. The problem is that while mainstream indie games continue to come out by the hundreds and thousands, audio games trickle in at a very slow pace. We simply cannot afford to see a day when 95% of them are crushed by hackers as soon as they get popular. I don't have a plan to solve this issue, but I sure hope someone does. - Aprone From: dark d...@xgam.org Hi aprone. I can imagine hackers trying to muck up the game to cheat, but to do it simply to cause trouble is down right scummy, particularly because it's likely these hackers are probably visually impared themselves since they wouldn't have heard of the game otherwise, which makes it doubly pathetic given that swamp is one of only a few accessible games of this type. it's a shame your Ai can't give them a really nasty virus in return, the T virus would suit very well! :D. sorry, resident evil joke there. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Jeremy, It's highly unlikely that the attacks you're seeing are from your players. There's not really any incentive for them, and direct attacks are so easy to track back that if it were one of your players, you should be able to smash them easily. I say this because we get literally thousands of such attacks a month on the Alter Aeon server. They come from all over the world and in all different types, from attempts on our forum and wiki to portscans to common backdoors and brute force ssh login attempts. The automated attack of login names and passwords hits us between five and ten times daily. I don't even bother to pay attention to the reports on that anymore. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: Dark, From sighted indie games of my past, I'm used to the idea of hackers trying to ruin everyone's fun, so that doesn't upset me as much as others might think. Yeah it does annoy me, but I don't take it quite as personal as maybe I should, just because I've seen it for so many years. What does get under my skin is that several of the Swamp hackers have changed tactics over the past 4 or 5 months, and they go after my personal property. In fact, in just the past few weeks with the new testing server up I've had 2 pretty big attacks that were aimed at damaging my laptop, not Swamp! I highly doubt these people are smart enough to be developing these attacks themselves, rather they probably find shady websites and download tools to make these attacks for them, but that doesn't change the situation very much. The last one was an attack I've personally never seen before. The automated attack went through each of the devices in my local LAN and spammed them with a huge list of common login names and passwords, hoping they'd get luck on one of them. This is the kind of stuff that could eventually ruin multiplayer audio games just like most multiplayer mainstream indie games have happen to them. The problem is that while mainstream indie games continue to come out by the hundreds and thousands, audio games trickle in at a very slow pace. We simply cannot afford to see a day when 95% of them are crushed by hackers as soon as they get popular. I don't have a plan to solve this issue, but I sure hope someone does. - Aprone --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Wow, that's even scummier than I thought, some people are just naturally vandals. one thing I do wonder however, is how games like Alteraeon, cor exiles, kingdom of laothing etc stay up. Perhaps, it would be worth having words with dentin, the Ce dev (I can pass on her mail if you like), and some of the other developers of accessible multiplayer online games about their security arrangements since it would be a bloody massive shame if such attacks did! indeed ruine things, and this is not the first I've heard of this sort of thing in the accessible games community, since audiogames.net fell victim to a very nasty hack a couple of years ago and was offline for about amonth (luckily we do back stuff up). Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Dennis, they do trace back to actual players. I know that the internet is swarmed with automated attacks, and I ignore those as well. I'm specifically referring to attacks that easily trace back to Swamp players that have been banned. One of the 2 recent attacks left enough information that I confronted the guy on Skype about it. Of course he denied it, but made a few smug statements that were clearly to rub it in my face without actually confessing anything. - Aprone From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com Jeremy, It's highly unlikely that the attacks you're seeing are from your players. There's not really any incentive for them, and direct attacks are so easy to track back that if it were one of your players, you should be able to smash them easily. I say this because we get literally thousands of such attacks a month on the Alter Aeon server. They come from all over the world and in all different types, from attempts on our forum and wiki to portscans to common backdoors and brute force ssh login attempts. The automated attack of login names and passwords hits us between five and ten times daily. I don't even bother to pay attention to the reports on that anymore. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Dark, It's not really vandals. It's the botnet guys, and they don't care one whit about mudding or audio games or anything else. All they're trying to do is get machines that they can add to their botnet. The basic idea is that the bad guys get a huge number of computers under central control, then they use those machines to send spam or to generate advertising clicks to make money. That's all they want - machines they can use to generate money via various kinds of spam. They're parasites, and it sucks a lot - but there's no easy way to get rid of them, and all we can do is stand up to the constant assault. The way that I handle it is via security domains, so that different machines run things that are more risky. A good example of this would be the AA wiki server, which is on a separate machine because it's a PHP based and probably hackable. If one machine is compromised, it doesn't necessarily affect the rest of the network, and you can keep everything up. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:09 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Wow, that's even scummier than I thought, some people are just naturally vandals. one thing I do wonder however, is how games like Alteraeon, cor exiles, kingdom of laothing etc stay up. Perhaps, it would be worth having words with dentin, the Ce dev (I can pass on her mail if you like), and some of the other developers of accessible multiplayer online games about their security arrangements since it would be a bloody massive shame if such attacks did! indeed ruine things, and this is not the first I've heard of this sort of thing in the accessible games community, since audiogames.net fell victim to a very nasty hack a couple of years ago and was offline for about amonth (luckily we do back stuff up). Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
hi aprone, since most of these hackers are chinese maybe they chinese government offers free hacking courses for these people since now you are a potential target for them especially after swampnet you probably should consider getting a firewall or something for your other computers you should also probably patch all important security holes through windows update asap you also should probably specificly block those hacker's ip addresses from gaining access to your other pcs anyway, hope the hackers don't mess up swamp or your pcs On 3/24/2013 6:28 PM, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: Dark, From sighted indie games of my past, I'm used to the idea of hackers trying to ruin everyone's fun, so that doesn't upset me as much as others might think. Yeah it does annoy me, but I don't take it quite as personal as maybe I should, just because I've seen it for so many years. What does get under my skin is that several of the Swamp hackers have changed tactics over the past 4 or 5 months, and they go after my personal property. In fact, in just the past few weeks with the new testing server up I've had 2 pretty big attacks that were aimed at damaging my laptop, not Swamp! I highly doubt these people are smart enough to be developing these attacks themselves, rather they probably find shady websites and download tools to make these attacks for them, but that doesn't change the situation very much. The last one was an attack I've personally never seen before. The automated attack went through each of the devices in my local LAN and spammed them with a huge list of common login names and passwords, hoping they'd get luck on one of them. This is the kind of stuff that could eventually ruin multiplayer audio games just like most multiplayer mainstream indie games have happen to them. The problem is that while mainstream indie games continue to come out by the hundreds and thousands, audio games trickle in at a very slow pace. We simply cannot afford to see a day when 95% of them are crushed by hackers as soon as they get popular. I don't have a plan to solve this issue, but I sure hope someone does. - Aprone From: dark d...@xgam.org Hi aprone. I can imagine hackers trying to muck up the game to cheat, but to do it simply to cause trouble is down right scummy, particularly because it's likely these hackers are probably visually impared themselves since they wouldn't have heard of the game otherwise, which makes it doubly pathetic given that swamp is one of only a few accessible games of this type. it's a shame your Ai can't give them a really nasty virus in return, the T virus would suit very well! :D. sorry, resident evil joke there. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Jeremy, That's pretty weird. I haven't seen a machine based attack worth talking about from my player base in nearly fifteen years, and in that case I just called up his provider and got his accounts revoked. I'm sure there have been other hack attempts, but I'd have to waste time rooting through the logs to see how often they happen. What kinds of techniques are they using? Perhaps the difference is dependent on UDP usage instead of TCP connections. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: Dennis, they do trace back to actual players. I know that the internet is swarmed with automated attacks, and I ignore those as well. I'm specifically referring to attacks that easily trace back to Swamp players that have been banned. One of the 2 recent attacks left enough information that I confronted the guy on Skype about it. Of course he denied it, but made a few smug statements that were clearly to rub it in my face without actually confessing anything. - Aprone From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com Jeremy, It's highly unlikely that the attacks you're seeing are from your players. There's not really any incentive for them, and direct attacks are so easy to track back that if it were one of your players, you should be able to smash them easily. I say this because we get literally thousands of such attacks a month on the Alter Aeon server. They come from all over the world and in all different types, from attempts on our forum and wiki to portscans to common backdoors and brute force ssh login attempts. The automated attack of login names and passwords hits us between five and ten times daily. I don't even bother to pay attention to the reports on that anymore. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
I haven't contacted any providers lately because it hasn't been helping. The last few times I bothered to contact anyone the information traced back to small businesses (coffee shop type things) or schools, and they just ignored me. I doubt they care to lose any business over some random guy reporting abuse. The most annoying attacks have been DOS attacks and packet injection to try and break the server or log in as other users. The DOS attacks were fairly small scale by most standards, but that doesn't mean it didn't cause huge lag and log in issues. The one a few days ago that hit my LAN looked to me like it was meant to exploit the remote sign in feature in Windows. They probably assumed I was using that to check the server, which is a fair assumption, but was wrong. As I said I don't worry about the standard background internet garbage, since that just comes with the territory, but I think it's a big deal with people from the community itself are doing these things. I think the reason you haven't seen much of this in Alter Aeon is because they're still preoccupied with Swamp. Many of the hackers are the same people I've dealt with for a year now. Each time they are thwarted they clearly spend time learning new things because their next set of efforts shows improvement. So if after a year of learning and trying new things we have blind audio games players who are willing to target the personal property of game developers for fun, then I think we have a problem. Odds are, they won't wake up with the ability to see tomorrow, so they aren't going to just go away. If they have this destructive mind set and only the audio games community to prey on, then other developers are going to have to deal with them at some point as well. From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com Jeremy, That's pretty weird. I haven't seen a machine based attack worth talking about from my player base in nearly fifteen years, and in that case I just called up his provider and got his accounts revoked. I'm sure there have been other hack attempts, but I'd have to waste time rooting through the logs to see how often they happen. What kinds of techniques are they using? Perhaps the difference is dependent on UDP usage instead of TCP connections. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
hi all. While the internet offers its own anonymity and someone can change their IP address and login name the audio gaming community is still a small one. I think that the well established audio game makers who have evidence about specific gamers should publish it in order to warn other people. We could even consider a global black list for these gamers. The fact that we are a small community would mean that even if someone were to change their username or internet provider their real name might still be exposed through real life interaction with other users. So this might discourage many of the attacks by not making it worth the effort. Those people might think they are cool, but maybe they will reconsider when they cannot play any online game, buy /download any games or interact in the audio gaming community without the label of a sneaky cheat. On 3/24/13, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote: I haven't contacted any providers lately because it hasn't been helping. The last few times I bothered to contact anyone the information traced back to small businesses (coffee shop type things) or schools, and they just ignored me. I doubt they care to lose any business over some random guy reporting abuse. The most annoying attacks have been DOS attacks and packet injection to try and break the server or log in as other users. The DOS attacks were fairly small scale by most standards, but that doesn't mean it didn't cause huge lag and log in issues. The one a few days ago that hit my LAN looked to me like it was meant to exploit the remote sign in feature in Windows. They probably assumed I was using that to check the server, which is a fair assumption, but was wrong. As I said I don't worry about the standard background internet garbage, since that just comes with the territory, but I think it's a big deal with people from the community itself are doing these things. I think the reason you haven't seen much of this in Alter Aeon is because they're still preoccupied with Swamp. Many of the hackers are the same people I've dealt with for a year now. Each time they are thwarted they clearly spend time learning new things because their next set of efforts shows improvement. So if after a year of learning and trying new things we have blind audio games players who are willing to target the personal property of game developers for fun, then I think we have a problem. Odds are, they won't wake up with the ability to see tomorrow, so they aren't going to just go away. If they have this destructive mind set and only the audio games community to prey on, then other developers are going to have to deal with them at some point as well. From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com Jeremy, That's pretty weird. I haven't seen a machine based attack worth talking about from my player base in nearly fifteen years, and in that case I just called up his provider and got his accounts revoked. I'm sure there have been other hack attempts, but I'd have to waste time rooting through the logs to see how often they happen. What kinds of techniques are they using? Perhaps the difference is dependent on UDP usage instead of TCP connections. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
true sometimes we get lucky and some contry mainly the us manages with a lot of mucking about over several years of looking round to close one botnet down, however they only seem to go after the majorly serious ones, so sertainly going after these bad guys is quite resource hungry. I think one of the worst was on last year when several dns previders were infected with a virus and others were rerouted, eventually these were shut down but the colateral was huge on those that were connected, sertainly they had to be disinfected/ reformatted first and well, resources really don't justify going after these guys unless they really become a problem. Its like all the flies we have true you could kill all the flies but you would never get them all so its something you have to handle, the net and its badnesses like any world its got its evil side needs to be controled. And software that says it will happily nuke all the evil is just kidding itself. And even if it does there is a tradeoff. I once had a security system I worked on that was a combo of 3 bits of software. It said it would kill everything evil. It didn't ocur to the author to define what was though and the software thought of itself as good and everything evil. After a lot of junk I had to take down and reformat 10 networked machines, their backup drives etc. wasn't worth it at all. At 07:59 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote: Dark, It's not really vandals. It's the botnet guys, and they don't care one whit about mudding or audio games or anything else. All they're trying to do is get machines that they can add to their botnet. The basic idea is that the bad guys get a huge number of computers under central control, then they use those machines to send spam or to generate advertising clicks to make money. That's all they want - machines they can use to generate money via various kinds of spam. They're parasites, and it sucks a lot - but there's no easy way to get rid of them, and all we can do is stand up to the constant assault. The way that I handle it is via security domains, so that different machines run things that are more risky. A good example of this would be the AA wiki server, which is on a separate machine because it's a PHP based and probably hackable. If one machine is compromised, it doesn't necessarily affect the rest of the network, and you can keep everything up. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:09 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Wow, that's even scummier than I thought, some people are just naturally vandals. one thing I do wonder however, is how games like Alteraeon, cor exiles, kingdom of laothing etc stay up. Perhaps, it would be worth having words with dentin, the Ce dev (I can pass on her mail if you like), and some of the other developers of accessible multiplayer online games about their security arrangements since it would be a bloody massive shame if such attacks did! indeed ruine things, and this is not the first I've heard of this sort of thing in the accessible games community, since audiogames.net fell victim to a very nasty hack a couple of years ago and was offline for about amonth (luckily we do back stuff up). Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
china does get a bad wrap but they seem to be at the forefrunt of a lot of the goings on these days saying that they make all the computers and other things they basically have taken over most of the world. wouldn't make sence to get anymore. At 07:59 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote: hi aprone, since most of these hackers are chinese maybe they chinese government offers free hacking courses for these people since now you are a potential target for them especially after swampnet you probably should consider getting a firewall or something for your other computers you should also probably patch all important security holes through windows update asap you also should probably specificly block those hacker's ip addresses from gaining access to your other pcs anyway, hope the hackers don't mess up swamp or your pcs On 3/24/2013 6:28 PM, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: Dark, From sighted indie games of my past, I'm used to the idea of hackers trying to ruin everyone's fun, so that doesn't upset me as much as others might think. Yeah it does annoy me, but I don't take it quite as personal as maybe I should, just because I've seen it for so many years. What does get under my skin is that several of the Swamp hackers have changed tactics over the past 4 or 5 months, and they go after my personal property. In fact, in just the past few weeks with the new testing server up I've had 2 pretty big attacks that were aimed at damaging my laptop, not Swamp! I highly doubt these people are smart enough to be developing these attacks themselves, rather they probably find shady websites and download tools to make these attacks for them, but that doesn't change the situation very much. The last one was an attack I've personally never seen before. The automated attack went through each of the devices in my local LAN and spammed them with a huge list of common login names and passwords, hoping they'd get luck on one of them. This is the kind of stuff that could eventually ruin multiplayer audio games just like most multiplayer mainstream indie games have happen to them. The problem is that while mainstream indie games continue to come out by the hundreds and thousands, audio games trickle in at a very slow pace. We simply cannot afford to see a day when 95% of them are crushed by hackers as soon as they get popular. I don't have a plan to solve this issue, but I sure hope someone does. - Aprone From: dark d...@xgam.org Hi aprone. I can imagine hackers trying to muck up the game to cheat, but to do it simply to cause trouble is down right scummy, particularly because it's likely these hackers are probably visually impared themselves since they wouldn't have heard of the game otherwise, which makes it doubly pathetic given that swamp is one of only a few accessible games of this type. it's a shame your Ai can't give them a really nasty virus in return, the T virus would suit very well! :D. sorry, resident evil joke there. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
on that note I'd like to see a game that would have stratogy, puzzles, action, adventure and maybe a few other things put into one at some point down the road. ofcause it would be massive. At 08:42 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote: I haven't contacted any providers lately because it hasn't been helping. The last few times I bothered to contact anyone the information traced back to small businesses (coffee shop type things) or schools, and they just ignored me. I doubt they care to lose any business over some random guy reporting abuse. The most annoying attacks have been DOS attacks and packet injection to try and break the server or log in as other users. The DOS attacks were fairly small scale by most standards, but that doesn't mean it didn't cause huge lag and log in issues. The one a few days ago that hit my LAN looked to me like it was meant to exploit the remote sign in feature in Windows. They probably assumed I was using that to check the server, which is a fair assumption, but was wrong. As I said I don't worry about the standard background internet garbage, since that just comes with the territory, but I think it's a big deal with people from the community itself are doing these things. I think the reason you haven't seen much of this in Alter Aeon is because they're still preoccupied with Swamp. Many of the hackers are the same people I've dealt with for a year now. Each time they are thwarted they clearly spend time learning new things because their next set of efforts shows improvement. So if after a year of learning and trying new things we have blind audio games players who are willing to target the personal property of game developers for fun, then I think we have a problem. Odds are, they won't wake up with the ability to see tomorrow, so they aren't going to just go away. If they have this destructive mind set and only the audio games community to prey on, then other developers are going to have to deal with them at some point as well. From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com Jeremy, That's pretty weird. I haven't seen a machine based attack worth talking about from my player base in nearly fifteen years, and in that case I just called up his provider and got his accounts revoked. I'm sure there have been other hack attempts, but I'd have to waste time rooting through the logs to see how often they happen. What kinds of techniques are they using? Perhaps the difference is dependent on UDP usage instead of TCP connections. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Is this a case of we only have so long left, or do you think they'll eventually give up? - Original Message - From: Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay I haven't contacted any providers lately because it hasn't been helping. The last few times I bothered to contact anyone the information traced back to small businesses (coffee shop type things) or schools, and they just ignored me. I doubt they care to lose any business over some random guy reporting abuse. The most annoying attacks have been DOS attacks and packet injection to try and break the server or log in as other users. The DOS attacks were fairly small scale by most standards, but that doesn't mean it didn't cause huge lag and log in issues. The one a few days ago that hit my LAN looked to me like it was meant to exploit the remote sign in feature in Windows. They probably assumed I was using that to check the server, which is a fair assumption, but was wrong. As I said I don't worry about the standard background internet garbage, since that just comes with the territory, but I think it's a big deal with people from the community itself are doing these things. I think the reason you haven't seen much of this in Alter Aeon is because they're still preoccupied with Swamp. Many of the hackers are the same people I've dealt with for a year now. Each time they are thwarted they clearly spend time learning new things because their next set of efforts shows improvement. So if after a year of learning and trying new things we have blind audio games players who are willing to target the personal property of game developers for fun, then I think we have a problem. Odds are, they won't wake up with the ability to see tomorrow, so they aren't going to just go away. If they have this destructive mind set and only the audio games community to prey on, then other developers are going to have to deal with them at some point as well. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
That's an interesting idea. I just wonder if we aren't already to big of a group for that to work effectively.. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:28:19 +0200 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay hi all. While the internet offers its own anonymity and someone can change their IP address and login name the audio gaming community is still a small one. I think that the well established audio game makers who have evidence about specific gamers should publish it in order to warn other people. We could even consider a global black list for these gamers. The fact that we are a small community would mean that even if someone were to change their username or internet provider their real name might still be exposed through real life interaction with other users. So this might discourage many of the attacks by not making it worth the effort. Those people might think they are cool, but maybe they will reconsider when they cannot play any online game, buy /download any games or interact in the audio gaming community without the label of a sneaky cheat. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Hi Dennis. Well that doesn't surprise me, not with the amount of spambots we regularly have to boot off the forums on audiogames.net, though I never actually realized the same people were behind full attacks on servers, I thought their main purpose was to generate E-mail or other forms of spam by posting spam links on mail, forums and other media. It's still however a pain in the rear. all the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Hi Al, Yes, I've seen War Games, but it has been several years ago. However, I take your point as it seems all too possible that some cracker might do something like that. On 3/23/13, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: It is truly a shame... All this reminds me of Matthew Broderick in Wargames, ever see it? Some computer had gone thru some kind of logical loop where it intended to actually start a thermonuclear war. I even played the game based on the movie on my friends atari computer, lol. The thing that got me was the image of all these digital lines representing missiles flying out and being tracked, landing on the enemy territory, almost like a sideways missile command. al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
I have wargames 1 and 2. 2 was even worse. a computer that was looking for terrorists managed to get in a loop after various events, and tried to get rid of someone through a lot of data in its files. Having been defeated it tried to nuke its cpu. the system in wargames1 managed to get it into a real nuke war and it was able to be pulled from its loop just like the first one was. The only reason people may have not heard of it was it never did that well. a friend was able to aquire from some questionable site the avis and I was able to then convert them though I'd still like the disks evetually. At 05:15 PM 3/23/2013, you wrote: It is truly a shame... All this reminds me of Matthew Broderick in Wargames, ever see it? Some computer had gone thru some kind of logical loop where it intended to actually start a thermonuclear war. I even played the game based on the movie on my friends atari computer, lol. The thing that got me was the image of all these digital lines representing missiles flying out and being tracked, landing on the enemy territory, almost like a sideways missile command. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay Hi Al, The internet is a mean and nasty place out there. You'd be surprised how many talented people out there use their computer technical skills just for spite or to break something just because they can. Its amazing how many hackers are asked why they did it and the best answer they can give is it sounded like something fun to do or some equally lame excuse. Regardless of why they do what they do they make it rough on the developer and of course the honest gamer. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Hi Shaun, Please, take this off list. It is way off topic. Thanks. On 3/23/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I have wargames 1 and 2. 2 was even worse. a computer that was looking for terrorists managed to get in a loop after various events, and tried to get rid of someone through a lot of data in its files. Having been defeated it tried to nuke its cpu. the system in wargames1 managed to get it into a real nuke war and it was able to be pulled from its loop just like the first one was. The only reason people may have not heard of it was it never did that well. a friend was able to aquire from some questionable site the avis and I was able to then convert them though I'd still like the disks evetually. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Hi, I am sorry to hear that. I always assumed they wanted money, or to steal information , but I guess they get a buzz off of breaking other peoples things. That is unfortunate that they waste all that talent on hurting others, instead of helping. sigh. Thanks for the info. I just didn't know. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Jeremy Kaldobsky To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay Some of the people are just cheaters looking to give themselves an unfair advantage over the other players, but a good percentage are doing it for malicious purposes. We get hackers that try to crash the server so that no one can play. We get hackers that try to disrupt other players' clients so that they can't play, and we have even had hackers that attack my home computers so that the Swamp server will shut down. They are just people looking to cause trouble. - Aprone --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
Hi Al, The internet is a mean and nasty place out there. You'd be surprised how many talented people out there use their computer technical skills just for spite or to break something just because they can. Its amazing how many hackers are asked why they did it and the best answer they can give is it sounded like something fun to do or some equally lame excuse. Regardless of why they do what they do they make it rough on the developer and of course the honest gamer. On 3/22/13, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Hi, I am sorry to hear that. I always assumed they wanted money, or to steal information , but I guess they get a buzz off of breaking other peoples things. That is unfortunate that they waste all that talent on hurting others, instead of helping. sigh. Thanks for the info. I just didn't know. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
You got that tom, I was talking to a tech I usually chat with and he recons that if all the hackers got together they could actually do something great only if they made a name for themselves. I had someone design a weather program using xml it works and I use it however for what it is its good all you need is an airline code and that was a sort of hack job. Its a shame lots of people break things or to put another way as many people break things and the same number do make things so maybe its the way of the universe. At 04:13 PM 3/23/2013, you wrote: Hi Al, The internet is a mean and nasty place out there. You'd be surprised how many talented people out there use their computer technical skills just for spite or to break something just because they can. Its amazing how many hackers are asked why they did it and the best answer they can give is it sounded like something fun to do or some equally lame excuse. Regardless of why they do what they do they make it rough on the developer and of course the honest gamer. On 3/22/13, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote: Hi, I am sorry to hear that. I always assumed they wanted money, or to steal information , but I guess they get a buzz off of breaking other peoples things. That is unfortunate that they waste all that talent on hurting others, instead of helping. sigh. Thanks for the info. I just didn't know. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay
It is truly a shame... All this reminds me of Matthew Broderick in Wargames, ever see it? Some computer had gone thru some kind of logical loop where it intended to actually start a thermonuclear war. I even played the game based on the movie on my friends atari computer, lol. The thing that got me was the image of all these digital lines representing missiles flying out and being tracked, landing on the enemy territory, almost like a sideways missile command. al The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Aprones games was Re: Looking For Something NewtoPlay Hi Al, The internet is a mean and nasty place out there. You'd be surprised how many talented people out there use their computer technical skills just for spite or to break something just because they can. Its amazing how many hackers are asked why they did it and the best answer they can give is it sounded like something fun to do or some equally lame excuse. Regardless of why they do what they do they make it rough on the developer and of course the honest gamer. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
