Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-20 Thread dark

Hi Tom.

I agree on the topic structure being good in forums, though in fairness 
deleting messages in a thread I'm not interested in on a mailing list isn't 
too much trouble either.


Just as an informational point however, when looking on the index, the 
general new link at the top will indeed give you all new topics on the 
forum, however next to each forum room there is a link labled new posts 
that will give you just the new posts in that room.


this is as I said why i am a fan of the Punbb system, since it doesn't have 
a load of random pointless links to navigate all over the place the way some 
forums I've seen do, much less when reading posts, and the links it does 
have are actually usefull ones.


Beware the Grue!

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-20 Thread Dallas O'Brien
Hi,
On the other hand, if the forum is set up correctly, you can subscribe to 
threads with your email address. In which case new posts to the thread will be 
delivered to your mailbox much like an email list. However, there is still 
something about an email list that lends itself to what we're doing. Oh well, I 
guess we'll just see what happens. LOL.
Regards:
Dallas


On 20/03/2013, at 5:15, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Dark,
 
 That's understandable. I would probably not visit Audiogames.net as
 often if Audyssey had a forum since there wouldn't be a need to check
 both forums as often.
 
 With the list setup it is much easier than a forum anyway because
 messages get delivered directly to your e-mail inbox. Every time you
 check your mail the messages from the list are in your mail inbox
 rather than having to go to a forum, log in, and locate the new posts.
 
 Cheers!
 

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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-20 Thread dark
Yes, audiogames.net also has that feature, though bare in mind it doesn't 
actually send posts to your inbox, just a mail with a link to view the new 
reply on the forum, which is actually why i don't use that feature myself 
since I just find it quicker and easier to log in and check manually.


Beware the Grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List



Hi,
On the other hand, if the forum is set up correctly, you can subscribe to 
threads with your email address. In which case new posts to the thread 
will be delivered to your mailbox much like an email list. However, there 
is still something about an email list that lends itself to what we're 
doing. Oh well, I guess we'll just see what happens. LOL.

Regards:
Dallas


On 20/03/2013, at 5:15, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:


Hi Dark,

That's understandable. I would probably not visit Audiogames.net as
often if Audyssey had a forum since there wouldn't be a need to check
both forums as often.

With the list setup it is much easier than a forum anyway because
messages get delivered directly to your e-mail inbox. Every time you
check your mail the messages from the list are in your mail inbox
rather than having to go to a forum, log in, and locate the new posts.

Cheers!



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list,

please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-20 Thread Dallas O'Brien
Actually, that's not correct. When it emails me an update about the post, it 
puts a copy of the post in the email as well. Not sure why you're not getting 
the same thing, but it's doing it for me.
Regards:
Dallas


On 20/03/2013, at 23:23, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:

 Yes, audiogames.net also has that feature, though bare in mind it doesn't 
 actually send posts to your inbox, just a mail with a link to view the new 
 reply on the forum, which is actually why i don't use that feature myself 
 since I just find it quicker and easier to log in and check manually.
 
 Beware the Grue!
 

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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-19 Thread Allan Thompson
I am glad to hear that. I find the forum kind of confusing and hard to deal 
with. Emails just seem easier over all.
As for the trim message thing, I know I have a hard time remembering, because 
this is the only list I know of that I am on that practices it, so sorry for 
those. I need like a little leprechaun to slap me upside the head everytime I 
forget to trim the message, grin.

al 

The truth will set you free
Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Thomas Ward 
  To: Gamers Discussion list 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List
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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-19 Thread dark
Actually, if the audeasy list did! change to a forum, I would probably be a 
less frequent visitor myself, since I don't particularly have the time to 
check two sets of forums a day, though one forum and one mailing list are 
okay.


all the best,

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark,

That's understandable. I would probably not visit Audiogames.net as
often if Audyssey had a forum since there wouldn't be a need to check
both forums as often.

With the list setup it is much easier than a forum anyway because
messages get delivered directly to your e-mail inbox. Every time you
check your mail the messages from the list are in your mail inbox
rather than having to go to a forum, log in, and locate the new posts.

Cheers!

On 3/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:
 Actually, if the audeasy list did! change to a forum, I would probably be a

 less frequent visitor myself, since I don't particularly have the time to
 check two sets of forums a day, though one forum and one mailing list are
 okay.

 all the best,

 Dark.


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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-19 Thread shaun everiss
I don't mean kill the email list but have both, in fact moving the 
offtopic stuff to a forum could do something but yeah I know what you mean.
I look at email 100 times a day and only look at the  audiogames 
forum once or twice a day only posting every so often rather 
than  well more often.


At 01:05 AM 3/20/2013, you wrote:
Actually, if the audeasy list did! change to a forum, I would 
probably be a less frequent visitor myself, since I don't 
particularly have the time to check two sets of forums a day, though 
one forum and one mailing list are okay.


all the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-19 Thread dark

Hi tom.

well in fairness all you need to actually do to get the new posts on a forum 
is click the new posts link. Some forums I admit can be a pest to 
navigate, but punbb, and especially the customized version of punbb that 
audiogames.net uses tends to be fine.


while I agree mailing list delivery is convenient, for me it also has a 
drawback. i'll hapily sign up to many forums even if temporarily, or even if 
i just want to ask a question. if I start playing a game, i'll sign up to 
the forum just to ask about that specific game, indeed I might well sign up 
to the storm8 forumswhile I test the games. Same goes for forums for other 
things, for instance I signed up to a doctor who forum when i was writing 
Dr. who episode reviews. Even if I don't post much, it doesn't matter, and 
there is no practical limit on how many forums I sign up for.


Mailing lists on the other hand I am very careful about, and other than 
signing up for news letters or the like. won't join discussion lists, since 
I don't want that volume of mail through my inbox, I have more than enough 
already.


so there are pros and cons to both systems really and i can quite understand 
why people prefer one or the other.


all the best,

dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-19 Thread dark
I aadmit I'm a little biased on this, what with being admin of the 
audiogames.net forum etc, but what would be the point? People are quite free 
to use the offtopic room of audiogames.


Beware the Grue!

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark,

I for one agree with you. If people want to have a forum for off topic
messages why not use the Audiogames.net forum. It already has an off
topic room for this purpose.  Once again, it begs the question, why
reinvent the wheel?

Besides that not everyone, myself included, necessarily wants to read
a bunch of off topic posts. Any more when I read the Audiogames.net
forum I go directly to the room or rooms  such as General so I don't
have to read all the off topic posts about weather or not braille is
necessary any more, or if someone can help someone else install
Windows 8, etc. I realize those topics are important to someone,
otherwise they wouldn't exist, but I don't have the time to read every
off topic post that gets posted to the forum. Sometimes I do read and
respond to those threads, but only if I am board and have nothing else
to do at that moment. Otherwise I go for just the rundown on what's
new or read about a game I am interested in and skip the rest.

Cheers!


On 3/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:
 I aadmit I'm a little biased on this, what with being admin of the
 audiogames.net forum etc, but what would be the point? People are quite free

 to use the offtopic room of audiogames.

 Beware the Grue!

 Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-18 Thread Charles Rivard
Hi, Tom:  Don't think that you're sounding like a hard case.  What you're 
basically asking us to do is to follow the guidelines with explanations as 
to why.  We should, individually, moderate our own messages in order to help 
take the load, and expense off of you, and I'll work on my messages, that's 
for sure.  I appreciate the work you do.  Thanks.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 3:27 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List



Hi all,

I don't want to sound like a serious hard case here, but there are a
few list issues I felt that needed addressed, and further more I could
address them all in a single post. So please read this message and
consider  it as your final warning on these issues.

Inflammatory Comments

As per the guidelines list members are to treat other list members
with a certain degree of respect, and that can go for games and other
products as well. Using terms such as retarded, stupid, crap, etc are
just negative and do not offer any sort of constructive criticism how
the person might improve his or her post, game, or whatever the
inflammatory comment is aimed at.. While I support freedom of speech
when and where possible the inflammatory comments and put downs stop
here. Anyone caught putting another person or product down in such a
manner will be put on 30 days moderation no questions asked.

Proper Spelling

While I'm sure we all  prefer reading posts where the person has done
his or her best to proofread the contents, spell words correctly, and
use proper punctuation I am none-the-less aware that we are not all
perfect and make mistakes. Moreover I am also aware that many people
who may be on this list may have additional disabilities besides being
visually impaired. Dyslexia, for example, has been known to effect the
person's ability to properly spell words. Since we do not know each
and everyone of you personally, have no way of knowing if there is any
mental impairments involved, it is difficult for us to impose a rule
to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation  on the list.

That said, I think there is a solution to the problem. If you or
anyone else has a problem with a certain list members spelling,
punctuation, or grammar we can attempt to mediate it off list. Rather
than bringing the subject up on list, disrupting the flow of a topic,
you should e-mail the moderators at
gamers-ow...@audyssey.org
and we can attempt to mediate the situation, and see if there is a
real medical reason for the persons poor spelling, grammar, etc or it
is simply a case of a person being a lazy poster. In either case I
don't want it to become a witch hunt, or continue to be a source of
contention on list.

Subject Lines

As with many mailing lists it is always a good idea to rename the
subject of the post when the topic changes. There are two important
reasons for this.

First, if someone is going through an inbox full of messages, and if
they are like me, they delete everything that they don't intend to
read or respond to. So if you ask about Castaways in a message with
the subject of Swamp chances are that a good number of people who
could have helped with your question deleted the post unread because
the message was titled incorrectly.

Second, is this list archives all of the messages, and if messages are
archived  under the wrong subject line it makes it difficult to later
locate the answer to a question when it is stored in a thread
unrelated to the topic being searched for.

So if you intend to change the topic of a thread change the subject
line as well. It will make life easier for everyone all around.

Message Length

While I have never considered this a serious disciplinary problem it
still remains to be a common problem with list members. When we
created this list we gave it a cap of a 10 KB limit per message which
is about three pages of text. Just enough for one message plus a
response in most cases. There were two reasons for this 10 KB limit.

At the time we created this list there were still plenty of people who
have to pay for the amount of bandwidth they use per month. The more
e-mail they download the more they have to pay. This is still the case
in some places, and we of course want to keep the relative cost of
being a list subscriber down for those people who have to pay for the
amount of bandwidth they use per month by filtering out any
unnecessary junk such as having 50 KB messages with multiple copies of
messages going all the way back to the beginning of the thread which
is ridiculous.

More importantly the list owner, yours truly, is now responsible for
paying for the amount of bandwidth used by the list, sending and
receiving messages, and I see no need to use more bandwidth than
absolutely necessary. I have purchased an 8 GB cap, which should be
plenty

Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-18 Thread shaun everiss

so do I.
on that note is there a way you can automatic split messages, I know 
what you mean a reply to a reply to a reply.
Ok if its all one topic fine,  but maybe if you only allow up to the 
message length and then after that you somehow trim the message 
though there is probably issues with that to.
Sometimes I get replies and it ends up with the message you 
origionaly wanted being lost at the end of the message somewhere.


At 10:02 AM 3/19/2013, you wrote:
Hi, Tom:  Don't think that you're sounding like a hard case.  What 
you're basically asking us to do is to follow the guidelines with 
explanations as to why.  We should, individually, moderate our own 
messages in order to help take the load, and expense off of you, and 
I'll work on my messages, that's for sure.  I appreciate the work 
you do.  Thanks.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 3:27 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List



Hi all,

I don't want to sound like a serious hard case here, but there are a
few list issues I felt that needed addressed, and further more I could
address them all in a single post. So please read this message and
consider  it as your final warning on these issues.

Inflammatory Comments

As per the guidelines list members are to treat other list members
with a certain degree of respect, and that can go for games and other
products as well. Using terms such as retarded, stupid, crap, etc are
just negative and do not offer any sort of constructive criticism how
the person might improve his or her post, game, or whatever the
inflammatory comment is aimed at.. While I support freedom of speech
when and where possible the inflammatory comments and put downs stop
here. Anyone caught putting another person or product down in such a
manner will be put on 30 days moderation no questions asked.

Proper Spelling

While I'm sure we all  prefer reading posts where the person has done
his or her best to proofread the contents, spell words correctly, and
use proper punctuation I am none-the-less aware that we are not all
perfect and make mistakes. Moreover I am also aware that many people
who may be on this list may have additional disabilities besides being
visually impaired. Dyslexia, for example, has been known to effect the
person's ability to properly spell words. Since we do not know each
and everyone of you personally, have no way of knowing if there is any
mental impairments involved, it is difficult for us to impose a rule
to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation  on the list.

That said, I think there is a solution to the problem. If you or
anyone else has a problem with a certain list members spelling,
punctuation, or grammar we can attempt to mediate it off list. Rather
than bringing the subject up on list, disrupting the flow of a topic,
you should e-mail the moderators at
gamers-ow...@audyssey.org
and we can attempt to mediate the situation, and see if there is a
real medical reason for the persons poor spelling, grammar, etc or it
is simply a case of a person being a lazy poster. In either case I
don't want it to become a witch hunt, or continue to be a source of
contention on list.

Subject Lines

As with many mailing lists it is always a good idea to rename the
subject of the post when the topic changes. There are two important
reasons for this.

First, if someone is going through an inbox full of messages, and if
they are like me, they delete everything that they don't intend to
read or respond to. So if you ask about Castaways in a message with
the subject of Swamp chances are that a good number of people who
could have helped with your question deleted the post unread because
the message was titled incorrectly.

Second, is this list archives all of the messages, and if messages are
archived  under the wrong subject line it makes it difficult to later
locate the answer to a question when it is stored in a thread
unrelated to the topic being searched for.

So if you intend to change the topic of a thread change the subject
line as well. It will make life easier for everyone all around.

Message Length

While I have never considered this a serious disciplinary problem it
still remains to be a common problem with list members. When we
created this list we gave it a cap of a 10 KB limit per message which
is about three pages of text. Just enough for one message plus a
response in most cases. There were two reasons for this 10 KB limit.

At the time we created this list there were still plenty of people who
have to pay for the amount of bandwidth they use per month. The more
e-mail they download the more they have to pay. This is still the case
in some places, and we of course want to keep the relative cost of
being a list subscriber down for those people who have to pay for the
amount of bandwidth

Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-18 Thread shaun everiss
I think the list and such will change once we have a forum like 
audiogames.net does of a sort.
there are rooms for general, new stuff, news and offtopic stuff and 
while I used to hate forums  with a passion they kind of grew on me 
and well I like both obviously email is my first choice to look at 
but the forums I view once a day also so.


At 11:56 AM 3/19/2013, you wrote:

Hi Charles,

Yes, that's it in a nutshell. I gave detailed explanations why certain
guidelines are in place because I don't think people always realize
why a certain rule or guideline is there in the first place, and why
we would prefer people follow them.

Take the issue of trimming messages as an example. I have gotten a few
messages over the last few years to the effect what is the big deal,
other moderators aren't this picky, list x has no message length, etc
and what few of them think about is the fact those lists are probably
on Yahoo or Google and the owner of the list isn't paying for
bandwidth and storage space so can afford to have 20 KB, 50 KB, or 100
KB messages. Its no skin off his rear since Yahoo or Google is
covering the costs to have that much space and bandwidth wasted. When
you are the soul admin of a list and there are actual admin costs
associated with its operation it makes sense to set some very basic
limits to keep the costs down. By telling people why a certain
guideline like that exists makes people more willing to follow it than
just say this or that is the rules and give no explanation for it.

In my experience as a parent and a list moderator people are much more
willing to listen to the rules, the guidelines, when there is a clear
reason why that rule or guideline exists. When people are unable to
see a clear reason for a rule they are more often as not likely
willing to ignore it., and then we have problems since someone is out
of line.

On 3/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:
 Hi, Tom:  Don't think that you're sounding like a hard case.  What you're
 basically asking us to do is to follow the guidelines with explanations as
 to why.  We should, individually, moderate our own messages in 
order to help


 take the load, and expense off of you, and I'll work on my messages, that's

 for sure.  I appreciate the work you do.  Thanks.

 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.

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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-18 Thread dark
I agree with Tom's thoughts as far as moderation goes, and I do confess I'm 
not always careful to trim my messages either.


On the forum point, it's actually surprising how many people only are in one 
place or the other, or are in one place the majority of the time and only 
look in on the other occasionally. Anyone who does! prefer forums is welcome 
on the audiogames.net forum.


all the best,

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-18 Thread Ken The PionEar
I'm not careful with the trimming either, and need to do better at it. Too 
bad you can't get a reminder every time you write a message lol.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List


I agree with Tom's thoughts as far as moderation goes, and I do confess I'm 
not always careful to trim my messages either.


On the forum point, it's actually surprising how many people only are in 
one place or the other, or are in one place the majority of the time and 
only look in on the other occasionally. Anyone who does! prefer forums is 
welcome on the audiogames.net forum.


all the best,

Dark.

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list,

please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message for the List

2013-03-18 Thread Richard Sherman
HI,

Thanks for the clarifications Thom.

One other thing that list members can do is to send messsages as plain text. 
For the most part plain text is sufficient. Sending as plain text decreases 
the size of each message by a lot. Of course it is better to send links and 
such as html.

HTH.

Shermanator
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 7:27 PM


Hi Shaun,

No, there is no way to automatically split or trim a message to the
write length that I am aware of. To trim a message I just scroll down
a few lines, to the end of the post I am replying to, and do a
shift-control-end to select everything to the end of the message, and
press delete.

For example, since I am only responding to you I went down a few lines
to the beginning of Charles's post, and selected everything to the end
of the message and then deleted it. Now, all we have is roughly a page
or so of text containing your message and my reply to it. If everyone
did that most messages would probably be 5 KB or so at most, because
there would not be these huge messages containing reply after reply in
them.

Cheers! 


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