Re: [Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz
Hi Dark and all, I play Winfrotz all the time with NVDA, and haven't had any problems without the NVDA plugin. So I am not really sure what the plugin does. What is it suppose to do? As far as the Filfre vs Winfrotz debate goes sounds like a screen reader compatibility issue alright. I've always found Winfrotz more compatible with NVDA than Filfre, but sounds like with Jaws that is the opposite way around. :D Cheers! On 9/29/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi. Hmmm, firstly have you actually turned sapi speaking on in the options? it's on the speech page. yu won't get sapi until you enable this, (I thought this was fairly self explanetory but I can add a note if you like). Regarding Jaws, I was going off what other people said, since manifestly I do not use jaws. Indeed, while most jaws users seem to think winfrotz is okay, apparently Filfre tends to be better for jaws as a screen reader, don't know why, since with supernova it is the other way around, and I can read the pages no trouble with Supernova's dolphin curser. Regarding the scrolling problem you mention, make sure fast scrolling is turned off, and show more prompsts is turned on. This means if you've got a game with more text than will display on one screen you get the usual hit enter to see more rather than the game trying to auto scroll. I thought these were default options but possibly not. Hth, though to be honest if filfre works for you,fair enough. The only major advantage Win frotz has over filfre is much better compatibility with some of the older infocom game file formats like zip or dat files (not to be confused with normal dat or zip files). Regarding the Nvda plugin, well it's possible it moved since I posted the link, but that is easily updated. All the best, dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz
Hi Kelly, I agree with Dark. It sounds like your Winfrotz is misconfigured as I am using NVDA without the NVDA plugin with Winfrotz and have not experienced the problems you mention. For one thing it sounds like autoscrolling is turned on which may be why the text doesn't match what SAPI is speaking aloud. If I have some time perhaps I can grab the Jaws demo and play with it and Winfrotz to find out why it is behaving that way. Cheers! On 9/29/13, Kelly Sapergia ksaper...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I normally use the Filfre interpreter to play ZCode games, such as those from Infocom, but after reading the description for Windows Frotz on AudioGames.net, I thought I'd give it a try. I'm using version 1.17. What I'm about to say is based on my first impressions of the program, but after using it for a few minutes, I think that the description on AudioGames.net needs some correcting. According to the site, JAWS is supposed to speak the text automatically, but that hasn't happened with version 14. Reading text with the JAWS cursor is practically useless, as text seems to gradually appear as you play, and doesn't match what the SAPI 5 voice says. (I'm wondering if the font or display settings need to be changed to make this work better.) Also, the link for the NVDA plugin linked to on AudioGames.net doesn't work. I was able to find it though by going to http://stormdragon.us/nvda/. I'll admit, I haven't tested Windows Frotz with NVDA yet, but I'm not sure I'd recommend this program for JAWS, unless there are settings I need to adjust to make it work better. For now, though, I think I'll stick with Filfre. I don't know if it has SAPI 5 output or not, but at least I can read the text propperly with the JAWS cursor which I prefer anyway. Thanks. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia Show Host and Production Director The Global Voice Internet Radio www.theglobalvoice.info Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS Productions): www.kjsproductions.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz
Hi Tom. As far as I remember, the nvda plugin is supposed to auto read incoming text, though I don't know too much about how it works, it was just a suggestion from one of our more responsable forum members that I include the link on the page. Then again I've noticed myself people seem less familiar with virtual curser use in Nvda than in some other screen readers, (heck we had a question about nvda and smugglers 5 yet again on the forum the other day), so people might feel they need auto reading even if in effect Nvda does have the capability to live without it. Regarding filfre vs winfrotz, as far as I can determine your right, it's a question of screen reader compatibility. With Supernova, while filfre is usable, winfrotz is just a better alternative since it has a far less cluttered interface to read, just as winglulx is better than filfre for glulx format games. With Jaws I am told the opposite is true, but hay, that's why it's good both interpreters are being maintained since people can choose to use wichever works best for their screen reader. The only miner problem i believe is Filfre not running older infocom type files, though I believe that function is being added to the program, unless it has been already. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz
Hi, I was able to play a game with WinFrotz and SAPI 5, but in general I don't care for that option because you can't do things like silence speech if you need to, or have it spell certain words. I'll definitely check the Autoscrolling setting, and will also try it with NVDA. Thanks. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia Show Host and Production Director The Global Voice Internet Radio www.theglobalvoice.info Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS Productions): www.kjsproductions.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz
The developer has been told about the silencing speech issue, since that was really the only thing which the old winfrotz tts did that modern winfrotz with sapi does. I'll have to give him a poke and see how he's getting to adding it. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Kelly Sapergia ksaper...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz Hi, I was able to play a game with WinFrotz and SAPI 5, but in general I don't care for that option because you can't do things like silence speech if you need to, or have it spell certain words. I'll definitely check the Autoscrolling setting, and will also try it with NVDA. Thanks. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia Show Host and Production Director The Global Voice Internet Radio www.theglobalvoice.info Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS Productions): www.kjsproductions.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz
Hi Dark, I see. Yes, having NVDA automatically read the text in Winfrotz would be nice, but I never personally found that necessary. I generally do a shift+numpad-7 to get to the top of the screen and use numpad-9 to read down line by line. Its a little slower than using SAPI etc, but it does give me the advantage of reviewing the screen for spellings and such which I would not ordinarily get. As for your views about Filfre I agree for the most part. While I can use it with NVDA the screen seems a little cluttered, and for me the least displayed on screen the better. However, I am glad that both are being maintained as that does offer a person a choice if someone simply does not like Winfrotz or as in the case of Jaws users find it a tad bit less accessible for some reason. Cheers! On 9/30/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. As far as I remember, the nvda plugin is supposed to auto read incoming text, though I don't know too much about how it works, it was just a suggestion from one of our more responsable forum members that I include the link on the page. Then again I've noticed myself people seem less familiar with virtual curser use in Nvda than in some other screen readers, (heck we had a question about nvda and smugglers 5 yet again on the forum the other day), so people might feel they need auto reading even if in effect Nvda does have the capability to live without it. Regarding filfre vs winfrotz, as far as I can determine your right, it's a question of screen reader compatibility. With Supernova, while filfre is usable, winfrotz is just a better alternative since it has a far less cluttered interface to read, just as winglulx is better than filfre for glulx format games. With Jaws I am told the opposite is true, but hay, that's why it's good both interpreters are being maintained since people can choose to use wichever works best for their screen reader. The only miner problem i believe is Filfre not running older infocom type files, though I believe that function is being added to the program, unless it has been already. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz
Hi, I normally use the Filfre interpreter to play ZCode games, such as those from Infocom, but after reading the description for Windows Frotz on AudioGames.net, I thought I'd give it a try. I'm using version 1.17. What I'm about to say is based on my first impressions of the program, but after using it for a few minutes, I think that the description on AudioGames.net needs some correcting. According to the site, JAWS is supposed to speak the text automatically, but that hasn't happened with version 14. Reading text with the JAWS cursor is practically useless, as text seems to gradually appear as you play, and doesn't match what the SAPI 5 voice says. (I'm wondering if the font or display settings need to be changed to make this work better.) Also, the link for the NVDA plugin linked to on AudioGames.net doesn't work. I was able to find it though by going to http://stormdragon.us/nvda/. I'll admit, I haven't tested Windows Frotz with NVDA yet, but I'm not sure I'd recommend this program for JAWS, unless there are settings I need to adjust to make it work better. For now, though, I think I'll stick with Filfre. I don't know if it has SAPI 5 output or not, but at least I can read the text propperly with the JAWS cursor which I prefer anyway. Thanks. Yours Sincerely, Kelly John Sapergia Show Host and Production Director The Global Voice Internet Radio www.theglobalvoice.info Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS Productions): www.kjsproductions.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Opinions Regarding Windows Frotz
Hi. Hmmm, firstly have you actually turned sapi speaking on in the options? it's on the speech page. yu won't get sapi until you enable this, (I thought this was fairly self explanetory but I can add a note if you like). Regarding Jaws, I was going off what other people said, since manifestly I do not use jaws. Indeed, while most jaws users seem to think winfrotz is okay, apparently Filfre tends to be better for jaws as a screen reader, don't know why, since with supernova it is the other way around, and I can read the pages no trouble with Supernova's dolphin curser. Regarding the scrolling problem you mention, make sure fast scrolling is turned off, and show more prompsts is turned on. This means if you've got a game with more text than will display on one screen you get the usual hit enter to see more rather than the game trying to auto scroll. I thought these were default options but possibly not. Hth, though to be honest if filfre works for you,fair enough. The only major advantage Win frotz has over filfre is much better compatibility with some of the older infocom game file formats like zip or dat files (not to be confused with normal dat or zip files). Regarding the Nvda plugin, well it's possible it moved since I posted the link, but that is easily updated. All the best, dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
