Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Charles, I guess you said it yourself. You are a purest and are taking the term wrestling too literally here. You are trying to compare pro wrestling to another sport like football, basketball, bowling, etc when that really is comparing two totally different things and trying to say they should be equal. What I mean by that is pro wrestling is not really a true sport in the way something like football or baseball is because all of the matches are fixed and scripted by the company to work into a larger storyline. I think most pro wrestling fans are aware by now that many of the matches are rehearsed and the winner is decided upon days possibly weeks before the match is televised on TV. For that reason it is not a true sport because it is purely for entertainment and there is no real competition in it. Therefore it doesn't matter if people cheat or not because it was all scripted before hand. When you talk about bowling, basketball, baseball, whatever that is a totally different situation. All of the games are about real honest open competition between two teams. Therefore cheating does matter because it is not contrived for the audiences benefit and cheating really would be cheating in those sports. So to get to the point if pro wrestling was really about competition then I'd agree with you that cheating and people busting up furniture should not be allowed, but it is not actually a sport. Everything you see on TNA Impact, WWE Raw, WWE Smackdown, whatever is less about competition than artistic stunt work as you pointed out in an earlier message. If that is not wrestling in your opinion fine, but I believe most fans of pro wrestling would tend to disagree with you as there currently is no other term to describe it right now. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Yes, there are very legitimate wrestling holds and moves that are done, and I am not ignoring them. However, my point is that, to me, professional sports should be just that; professional. Throwing someone through furniture or busting furniture across someone's head is not wrestling. If crossing the fowl line is not allowed in amateur bowling, it would also not be allowed in professional bowling. Professional wrestlers should wrestle, not do anything that is not wrestling. Maybe I am a purist, but shouldn't they stick to reasonable rules? If not, then the sport should be renamed to better classify what is and is not allowed. I think that a lot of fighting and illegal play should be clamped down on in a lot of professional sports. The NHL and NBA are prime examples. If these athletes are in a professional sport, they should be penalized for not being professionals. If you put your shoulder down and ram into someone who is in front of you who is a defender, you should be called for charging rather then the defender charged with blocking. If you hit an opponent with a hockey stick, you should be out of the game. They should act like, and be, professionals. You can have a very entertaining hockey, basketball, or wrestling match even if you follow the rules. Illegal and unnecessary violence, merely to keep the fans interested, is not needed. If it is, then there's something wrong with this picture. I prefer seeing basketball rather than basketbrawl. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I periodically watch pro wrestling cards with friends of mine who are fans and have written pro wrestling columns. We talk a lot more about the stories than we do about the wrestling moves. We all like tNA best these days, because its storylines seem more creative. Teresa, whose favorite is mi-i-i-i-i-isterrr An der sonnn (and who'd better stop now before this thread wanders even further astray.) :) Sent using Alpine messaging system in Mac OS X Terminal On Fri, 20 Dec 2013, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, I guess you said it yourself. You are a purest and are taking the term wrestling too literally here. You are trying to compare pro wrestling to another sport like football, basketball, bowling, etc when that really is comparing two totally different things and trying to say they should be equal. What I mean by that is pro wrestling is not really a true sport in the way something like football or baseball is because all of the matches are fixed and scripted by the company to work into a larger storyline. I think most pro wrestling fans are aware by now that many of the matches are rehearsed and the winner is decided upon days possibly weeks before the match is televised on TV. For that reason it is not a true sport because it is purely for entertainment and there is no real competition in it. Therefore it doesn't matter if people cheat or not because it was all scripted before hand. When you talk about bowling, basketball, baseball, whatever that is a totally different situation. All of the games are about real honest open competition between two teams. Therefore cheating does matter because it is not contrived for the audiences benefit and cheating really would be cheating in those sports. So to get to the point if pro wrestling was really about competition then I'd agree with you that cheating and people busting up furniture should not be allowed, but it is not actually a sport. Everything you see on TNA Impact, WWE Raw, WWE Smackdown, whatever is less about competition than artistic stunt work as you pointed out in an earlier message. If that is not wrestling in your opinion fine, but I believe most fans of pro wrestling would tend to disagree with you as there currently is no other term to describe it right now. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Yes, there are very legitimate wrestling holds and moves that are done, and I am not ignoring them. However, my point is that, to me, professional sports should be just that; professional. Throwing someone through furniture or busting furniture across someone's head is not wrestling. If crossing the fowl line is not allowed in amateur bowling, it would also not be allowed in professional bowling. Professional wrestlers should wrestle, not do anything that is not wrestling. Maybe I am a purist, but shouldn't they stick to reasonable rules? If not, then the sport should be renamed to better classify what is and is not allowed. I think that a lot of fighting and illegal play should be clamped down on in a lot of professional sports. The NHL and NBA are prime examples. If these athletes are in a professional sport, they should be penalized for not being professionals. If you put your shoulder down and ram into someone who is in front of you who is a defender, you should be called for charging rather then the defender charged with blocking. If you hit an opponent with a hockey stick, you should be out of the game. They should act like, and be, professionals. You can have a very entertaining hockey, basketball, or wrestling match even if you follow the rules. Illegal and unnecessary violence, merely to keep the fans interested, is not needed. If it is, then there's something wrong with this picture. I prefer seeing basketball rather than basketbrawl. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Interestingly enough, from friends of mine who do the more harsh and serious sorts of mixed martial arts, (I have one friend who even das krav maga, and yes, she is down right Scary!), since in those situations you are dealing with people who are capable of doing real and serious damage to each other, anyone cheats, uses illegal moves or the like, or uses a foreigne object like a steel chair and they'd be kicked out faster than you can say broken jaw! Indeed my friend has stated that in both training bouts and competitions for krav maga it's necessary for the referee to stand with a stop watch, since if one person gets the other in a choke hold there is a real risk of actual death if the hold goes on for more than about 20 seconds, and unconsciousness is apparently frequent, indeed according to my friend, half of her Krav maga training involves learning the holds, blows etc, the other half involves learning how not! to get broken bones, crushed joints and innumerable other injuries from doing such. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Another real sport is amateur wrestling - which they generally include in things like olympics, etc.? Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, I guess you said it yourself. You are a purest and are taking the term wrestling too literally here. You are trying to compare pro wrestling to another sport like football, basketball, bowling, etc when that really is comparing two totally different things and trying to say they should be equal. What I mean by that is pro wrestling is not really a true sport in the way something like football or baseball is because all of the matches are fixed and scripted by the company to work into a larger storyline. I think most pro wrestling fans are aware by now that many of the matches are rehearsed and the winner is decided upon days possibly weeks before the match is televised on TV. For that reason it is not a true sport because it is purely for entertainment and there is no real competition in it. Therefore it doesn't matter if people cheat or not because it was all scripted before hand. When you talk about bowling, basketball, baseball, whatever that is a totally different situation. All of the games are about real honest open competition between two teams. Therefore cheating does matter because it is not contrived for the audiences benefit and cheating really would be cheating in those sports. So to get to the point if pro wrestling was really about competition then I'd agree with you that cheating and people busting up furniture should not be allowed, but it is not actually a sport. Everything you see on TNA Impact, WWE Raw, WWE Smackdown, whatever is less about competition than artistic stunt work as you pointed out in an earlier message. If that is not wrestling in your opinion fine, but I believe most fans of pro wrestling would tend to disagree with you as there currently is no other term to describe it right now. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Yes, there are very legitimate wrestling holds and moves that are done, and I am not ignoring them. However, my point is that, to me, professional sports should be just that; professional. Throwing someone through furniture or busting furniture across someone's head is not wrestling. If crossing the fowl line is not allowed in amateur bowling, it would also not be allowed in professional bowling. Professional wrestlers should wrestle, not do anything that is not wrestling. Maybe I am a purist, but shouldn't they stick to reasonable rules? If not, then the sport should be renamed to better classify what is and is not allowed. I think that a lot of fighting and illegal play should be clamped down on in a lot of professional sports. The NHL and NBA are prime examples. If these athletes are in a professional sport, they should be penalized for not being professionals. If you put your shoulder down and ram into someone who is in front of you who is a defender, you should be called for charging rather then the defender charged with blocking. If you hit an opponent with a hockey stick, you should be out of the game. They should act like, and be, professionals. You can have a very entertaining hockey, basketball, or wrestling match even if you follow the rules. Illegal and unnecessary violence, merely to keep the fans interested, is not needed. If it is, then there's something wrong with this picture. I prefer seeing basketball rather than basketbrawl. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I guess my beef is with the classification rather than what they do. It is sports entertainment, but nonprofessional tactics are allowed in a sport, that sport is not professionally done, and I expect a professional sport to be professional. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Teresa, Exactly. The big companies like the WWE don't even pretend to treat wrestling as an actual sport or claim that the competitions are real. They call pro wrestling sports entertainment which basically emphasizes the fact it is entertainment like a sport but is not really a sport the way football, basketball, etc is. It is if anything, as you said, just some mindless fun watching some burly guys or a couple of hot women tossing each other around the ring for a while occasionally using a foreign object like a steel chair to knock out the opponent for the win. It is all for show and is all for fun. Leave it at that. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote: Pro wrestling doesn't pretend to be a sport in the same way that hockey, basketball, and don't forget football. You take or leave the violence, because it's an inherent part of the experience. It's not meant to be competetive. It doesn't even pretend to be that. It's mindless fun, IMO. I like a little mindless fun every once in awhile. Teresa Sent using Alpine messaging system in Mac OS X Terminal --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Sport Entertainment would be accurate. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, I guess you said it yourself. You are a purest and are taking the term wrestling too literally here. You are trying to compare pro wrestling to another sport like football, basketball, bowling, etc when that really is comparing two totally different things and trying to say they should be equal. What I mean by that is pro wrestling is not really a true sport in the way something like football or baseball is because all of the matches are fixed and scripted by the company to work into a larger storyline. I think most pro wrestling fans are aware by now that many of the matches are rehearsed and the winner is decided upon days possibly weeks before the match is televised on TV. For that reason it is not a true sport because it is purely for entertainment and there is no real competition in it. Therefore it doesn't matter if people cheat or not because it was all scripted before hand. When you talk about bowling, basketball, baseball, whatever that is a totally different situation. All of the games are about real honest open competition between two teams. Therefore cheating does matter because it is not contrived for the audiences benefit and cheating really would be cheating in those sports. So to get to the point if pro wrestling was really about competition then I'd agree with you that cheating and people busting up furniture should not be allowed, but it is not actually a sport. Everything you see on TNA Impact, WWE Raw, WWE Smackdown, whatever is less about competition than artistic stunt work as you pointed out in an earlier message. If that is not wrestling in your opinion fine, but I believe most fans of pro wrestling would tend to disagree with you as there currently is no other term to describe it right now. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Yes, there are very legitimate wrestling holds and moves that are done, and I am not ignoring them. However, my point is that, to me, professional sports should be just that; professional. Throwing someone through furniture or busting furniture across someone's head is not wrestling. If crossing the fowl line is not allowed in amateur bowling, it would also not be allowed in professional bowling. Professional wrestlers should wrestle, not do anything that is not wrestling. Maybe I am a purist, but shouldn't they stick to reasonable rules? If not, then the sport should be renamed to better classify what is and is not allowed. I think that a lot of fighting and illegal play should be clamped down on in a lot of professional sports. The NHL and NBA are prime examples. If these athletes are in a professional sport, they should be penalized for not being professionals. If you put your shoulder down and ram into someone who is in front of you who is a defender, you should be called for charging rather then the defender charged with blocking. If you hit an opponent with a hockey stick, you should be out of the game. They should act like, and be, professionals. You can have a very entertaining hockey, basketball, or wrestling match even if you follow the rules. Illegal and unnecessary violence, merely to keep the fans interested, is not needed. If it is, then there's something wrong with this picture. I prefer seeing basketball rather than basketbrawl. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Charles, Fair enough. You are right that the classification is wrong because while pro wrestling is treated as a professional sporting event the way the events are staged it is often anything but professional in the way the performers behave or conduct themselves. In this case the term professional simply means paid rather than amateur which is unpaid wrestling events. In short, I gather your disagreement is with the wording rather than the programming itself. Cheers! On 12/20/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I guess my beef is with the classification rather than what they do. It is sports entertainment, but nonprofessional tactics are allowed in a sport, that sport is not professionally done, and I expect a professional sport to be professional. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
That's it exactly. If it is staged and prearranged for spectator enjoyment rather than a competition with set rules, it should not be called a professional sport. I don't watch what is known as professional wrestling because I'm not into that sort of thing. I would, however, like to watch a good honest professional wrestling bout if it were verbally described. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, Fair enough. You are right that the classification is wrong because while pro wrestling is treated as a professional sporting event the way the events are staged it is often anything but professional in the way the performers behave or conduct themselves. In this case the term professional simply means paid rather than amateur which is unpaid wrestling events. In short, I gather your disagreement is with the wording rather than the programming itself. Cheers! On 12/20/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I guess my beef is with the classification rather than what they do. It is sports entertainment, but nonprofessional tactics are allowed in a sport, that sport is not professionally done, and I expect a professional sport to be professional. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I agree here as well. I also listen to professional wrestling, and there is wrestling involved. I once asked my cousin what the RKO was like, and he put the move on me, but didn't do it full force. Kenny Peyatt -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:38 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, Yes, I do see your point, but as I pointed out in professional wrestling there is both wrestling and a lot of the extra stuff you mentioned. The WWE is definitely one for having a lot of artistic stunt work such as throwing people through tables, people getting thrown from ladders, being beat over the head with steel chairs, the reff getting knocked out during a critical point in the match, and I agree that stuff is not wrestling. That stuff is just stunt work to keep the fans interested in the ongoing storyline. However, at the same time there is some very technical wrestling involved here which you seem to be ignoring. Every pro show I have ever watched has some basic wrestling such as reverse chinlocks, headlocks, arm drags, hip tosses, and so forth which are just as apart of an amateur match as a pro show. If that stuff is not wrestling then what is it? I guess it sounds to me you are making a case for all or nothing which I don't think it is that black and white. From what I am getting from your messages if pro wrestling is half wrestling and half stunt work then it is not wrestling. However, if you go to your local high school match which has no stunt work and 100% wrestling that is wrestling. That is just too black and white for me as I think there is a gray area here that you seem to be overlooking. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: When I used to watch the wrestlers on TV, they would use something to cut the opponent, break chairs on heads, put the referee out of commission, and stuff like that. This is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Dark, I think show wrestling is an accurate description. Obviously,, there is a lot of wrestling involved such as various grapples, submission holds, and technical throws, but unlike in Olympic wrestling the WWE, TNA, etc employ a lot of theatrical stunts such as attacking people with chairs, throwing people off ladders, throwing them through tables, etc which is used to add more drama to the matches. It isn't so much that it is not wrestling but that the matches are contrived for the audiences benefit to fit into a larger storyline and rivalry. For example, for several months now Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton have been in a contested rivalry for the WWE Championship. Now in football, baseball, basketball, or any real sport nobody would get away with the various things Randy Orton has done to hold onto the championship. Much less have the COO of the company knock out the competition to help him win as Triple H did back at Summerslam or have the guest referee knock out the opponent like at Hell in a Cell. All of that is obviously just for show, and is merely there to entertain the audience and make them want to see the next PPV to see how the rivalry turns out. My basic point is that it is wrestling in a very broad sense. It is just that pro wrestling is more show wrestling rather than wrestling as a sport. If someone wants a more pure sport oriented wrestling then they need to watch the Olympics, go to their local high school and watch their high school wrestling team, or go to college wrestling matches. It all depends on how black and white you view the situation, and I think Charles is being a bit too black and white when he said pro wrestling is not wrestling. Cheers! On 12/18/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I do sort of see charlse point here, that pro wrestling with the staged matches, supposed foul moves etc isn't exactly the same as another professional sport, even another combat sport like boxing or olypic wrestling or competitive martial arts. I wouldn't say it's not wrestling though since as has been pointed out it does employ many legitimate wrestling holds, move and throws, and indeed wrestlers like Curt Angle actually have done both the WWE style of wrestling and the real thing in the Olympics. I have heard people who do mixed martial arts and the like who utilise many wrestling holds describe it as show wrestling which seems an accurate description. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Teresa, Exactly. The big companies like the WWE don't even pretend to treat wrestling as an actual sport or claim that the competitions are real. They call pro wrestling sports entertainment which basically emphasizes the fact it is entertainment like a sport but is not really a sport the way football, basketball, etc is. It is if anything, as you said, just some mindless fun watching some burly guys or a couple of hot women tossing each other around the ring for a while occasionally using a foreign object like a steel chair to knock out the opponent for the win. It is all for show and is all for fun. Leave it at that. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote: Pro wrestling doesn't pretend to be a sport in the same way that hockey, basketball, and don't forget football. You take or leave the violence, because it's an inherent part of the experience. It's not meant to be competetive. It doesn't even pretend to be that. It's mindless fun, IMO. I like a little mindless fun every once in awhile. Teresa Sent using Alpine messaging system in Mac OS X Terminal --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Charles, To be honest this sounds like another one of your categorical statements without evidence or reasons to back it up. Why exactly do you think professional wrestling is not wrestling? The reason I take issue with your opinion is this. I have been watching or listening to professional wrestling for 30 years and have watched AWA, NWA, WWE, TNA, WCW, etc and while there is certainly what you call artistic stunt work involved many of those professional wrestlers use the same holds and moves you would find in amateur wrestling. I use to watch amateur wrestling matches such as high school wrestling, it is different, but not so different that pro wrestling should not be called wrestling. The main difference I see in pro wrestling is the companies like WWE fix matches, write storylines, and of course use a lot of flashy moves that are for show along with traditional wrestling holds and throws. Where with amateur wrestling nothing is scripted and the wrestlers win or lose by skill alone. So I am just interested to know what your opinion is based on. Cheers! On 12/17/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: What they do is artistic stunt work, I think. Although it is an art form, and some wrestling moves and holds are used, it is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
When I used to watch the wrestlers on TV, they would use something to cut the opponent, break chairs on heads, put the referee out of commission, and stuff like that. This is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, To be honest this sounds like another one of your categorical statements without evidence or reasons to back it up. Why exactly do you think professional wrestling is not wrestling? The reason I take issue with your opinion is this. I have been watching or listening to professional wrestling for 30 years and have watched AWA, NWA, WWE, TNA, WCW, etc and while there is certainly what you call artistic stunt work involved many of those professional wrestlers use the same holds and moves you would find in amateur wrestling. I use to watch amateur wrestling matches such as high school wrestling, it is different, but not so different that pro wrestling should not be called wrestling. The main difference I see in pro wrestling is the companies like WWE fix matches, write storylines, and of course use a lot of flashy moves that are for show along with traditional wrestling holds and throws. Where with amateur wrestling nothing is scripted and the wrestlers win or lose by skill alone. So I am just interested to know what your opinion is based on. Cheers! On 12/17/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: What they do is artistic stunt work, I think. Although it is an art form, and some wrestling moves and holds are used, it is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Hi Charles, Yes, I do see your point, but as I pointed out in professional wrestling there is both wrestling and a lot of the extra stuff you mentioned. The WWE is definitely one for having a lot of artistic stunt work such as throwing people through tables, people getting thrown from ladders, being beat over the head with steel chairs, the reff getting knocked out during a critical point in the match, and I agree that stuff is not wrestling. That stuff is just stunt work to keep the fans interested in the ongoing storyline. However, at the same time there is some very technical wrestling involved here which you seem to be ignoring. Every pro show I have ever watched has some basic wrestling such as reverse chinlocks, headlocks, arm drags, hip tosses, and so forth which are just as apart of an amateur match as a pro show. If that stuff is not wrestling then what is it? I guess it sounds to me you are making a case for all or nothing which I don't think it is that black and white. From what I am getting from your messages if pro wrestling is half wrestling and half stunt work then it is not wrestling. However, if you go to your local high school match which has no stunt work and 100% wrestling that is wrestling. That is just too black and white for me as I think there is a gray area here that you seem to be overlooking. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: When I used to watch the wrestlers on TV, they would use something to cut the opponent, break chairs on heads, put the referee out of commission, and stuff like that. This is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Yes, there are very legitimate wrestling holds and moves that are done, and I am not ignoring them. However, my point is that, to me, professional sports should be just that; professional. Throwing someone through furniture or busting furniture across someone's head is not wrestling. If crossing the fowl line is not allowed in amateur bowling, it would also not be allowed in professional bowling. Professional wrestlers should wrestle, not do anything that is not wrestling. Maybe I am a purist, but shouldn't they stick to reasonable rules? If not, then the sport should be renamed to better classify what is and is not allowed. I think that a lot of fighting and illegal play should be clamped down on in a lot of professional sports. The NHL and NBA are prime examples. If these athletes are in a professional sport, they should be penalized for not being professionals. If you put your shoulder down and ram into someone who is in front of you who is a defender, you should be called for charging rather then the defender charged with blocking. If you hit an opponent with a hockey stick, you should be out of the game. They should act like, and be, professionals. You can have a very entertaining hockey, basketball, or wrestling match even if you follow the rules. Illegal and unnecessary violence, merely to keep the fans interested, is not needed. If it is, then there's something wrong with this picture. I prefer seeing basketball rather than basketbrawl. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, Yes, I do see your point, but as I pointed out in professional wrestling there is both wrestling and a lot of the extra stuff you mentioned. The WWE is definitely one for having a lot of artistic stunt work such as throwing people through tables, people getting thrown from ladders, being beat over the head with steel chairs, the reff getting knocked out during a critical point in the match, and I agree that stuff is not wrestling. That stuff is just stunt work to keep the fans interested in the ongoing storyline. However, at the same time there is some very technical wrestling involved here which you seem to be ignoring. Every pro show I have ever watched has some basic wrestling such as reverse chinlocks, headlocks, arm drags, hip tosses, and so forth which are just as apart of an amateur match as a pro show. If that stuff is not wrestling then what is it? I guess it sounds to me you are making a case for all or nothing which I don't think it is that black and white. From what I am getting from your messages if pro wrestling is half wrestling and half stunt work then it is not wrestling. However, if you go to your local high school match which has no stunt work and 100% wrestling that is wrestling. That is just too black and white for me as I think there is a gray area here that you seem to be overlooking. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: When I used to watch the wrestlers on TV, they would use something to cut the opponent, break chairs on heads, put the referee out of commission, and stuff like that. This is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Pro wrestling doesn't pretend to be a sport in the same way that hockey, basketball, and don't forget football. You take or leave the violence, because it's an inherent part of the experience. It's not meant to be competetive. It doesn't even pretend to be that. It's mindless fun, IMO. I like a little mindless fun every once in awhile. Teresa Sent using Alpine messaging system in Mac OS X Terminal On Wed, 18 Dec 2013, Charles Rivard wrote: Yes, there are very legitimate wrestling holds and moves that are done, and I am not ignoring them. However, my point is that, to me, professional sports should be just that; professional. Throwing someone through furniture or busting furniture across someone's head is not wrestling. If crossing the fowl line is not allowed in amateur bowling, it would also not be allowed in professional bowling. Professional wrestlers should wrestle, not do anything that is not wrestling. Maybe I am a purist, but shouldn't they stick to reasonable rules? If not, then the sport should be renamed to better classify what is and is not allowed. I think that a lot of fighting and illegal play should be clamped down on in a lot of professional sports. The NHL and NBA are prime examples. If these athletes are in a professional sport, they should be penalized for not being professionals. If you put your shoulder down and ram into someone who is in front of you who is a defender, you should be called for charging rather then the defender charged with blocking. If you hit an opponent with a hockey stick, you should be out of the game. They should act like, and be, professionals. You can have a very entertaining hockey, basketball, or wrestling match even if you follow the rules. Illegal and unnecessary violence, merely to keep the fans interested, is not needed. If it is, then there's something wrong with this picture. I prefer seeing basketball rather than basketbrawl. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, Yes, I do see your point, but as I pointed out in professional wrestling there is both wrestling and a lot of the extra stuff you mentioned. The WWE is definitely one for having a lot of artistic stunt work such as throwing people through tables, people getting thrown from ladders, being beat over the head with steel chairs, the reff getting knocked out during a critical point in the match, and I agree that stuff is not wrestling. That stuff is just stunt work to keep the fans interested in the ongoing storyline. However, at the same time there is some very technical wrestling involved here which you seem to be ignoring. Every pro show I have ever watched has some basic wrestling such as reverse chinlocks, headlocks, arm drags, hip tosses, and so forth which are just as apart of an amateur match as a pro show. If that stuff is not wrestling then what is it? I guess it sounds to me you are making a case for all or nothing which I don't think it is that black and white. From what I am getting from your messages if pro wrestling is half wrestling and half stunt work then it is not wrestling. However, if you go to your local high school match which has no stunt work and 100% wrestling that is wrestling. That is just too black and white for me as I think there is a gray area here that you seem to be overlooking. Cheers! On 12/18/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: When I used to watch the wrestlers on TV, they would use something to cut the opponent, break chairs on heads, put the referee out of commission, and stuff like that. This is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
Every pro wrestling fan knows it's not wrestling. But it's a good show, though. :) Teresa Sent using Alpine messaging system in Mac OS X Terminal On Wed, 18 Dec 2013, Charles Rivard wrote: When I used to watch the wrestlers on TV, they would use something to cut the opponent, break chairs on heads, put the referee out of commission, and stuff like that. This is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters Hi Charles, To be honest this sounds like another one of your categorical statements without evidence or reasons to back it up. Why exactly do you think professional wrestling is not wrestling? The reason I take issue with your opinion is this. I have been watching or listening to professional wrestling for 30 years and have watched AWA, NWA, WWE, TNA, WCW, etc and while there is certainly what you call artistic stunt work involved many of those professional wrestlers use the same holds and moves you would find in amateur wrestling. I use to watch amateur wrestling matches such as high school wrestling, it is different, but not so different that pro wrestling should not be called wrestling. The main difference I see in pro wrestling is the companies like WWE fix matches, write storylines, and of course use a lot of flashy moves that are for show along with traditional wrestling holds and throws. Where with amateur wrestling nothing is scripted and the wrestlers win or lose by skill alone. So I am just interested to know what your opinion is based on. Cheers! On 12/17/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: What they do is artistic stunt work, I think. Although it is an art form, and some wrestling moves and holds are used, it is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
I do sort of see charlse point here, that pro wrestling with the staged matches, supposed foul moves etc isn't exactly the same as another professional sport, even another combat sport like boxing or olypic wrestling or competitive martial arts. I wouldn't say it's not wrestling though since as has been pointed out it does employ many legitimate wrestling holds, move and throws, and indeed wrestlers like Curt Angle actually have done both the WWE style of wrestling and the real thing in the Olympics. I have heard people who do mixed martial arts and the like who utilise many wrestling holds describe it as show wrestling which seems an accurate description. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] professional wrestling - Re: The Psychology of First Person Shooters
What they do is artistic stunt work, I think. Although it is an art form, and some wrestling moves and holds are used, it is not wrestling. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Psychology of First Person Shooters Yeah, and pro wrestlers are perfectly capable of killing, but don't. Wrestling is a great combination of performance art and athletecism, IMO. teresa Sent using Alpine messaging system in Mac OS X Terminal --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
