Re: [Gendergap] need email address
Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.com, _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 14 July 2012 09:21, Frances Kissling fkissl...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone have the email for Bishahka Datta? I changed computers and have lost hers. Need to get in touch re: Asia meeting in 2013 -- Frances Kissling ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] gendergap research
* I suggest to you that distilling the gendergap issue down to pro-porn culture when participants in the WikiWomen camp don't even rate this issue in its top 10, and the majority of women participating in discussion over the last few days are saying that it might be an issue but it's not the big issue, is pretty much a classic example of shouting over the voices of women who disagree with your focus. * +1 And for what its worth, WWC girls have no problem discussing sex, porn or male genitalia (we did spend more than 20 min laughing about the lies that europeans tell in studies like the one who originate this: http://alphadesigner.com/blog/europe-according-penis-size/ (which clearly states that French and Hungarians like to tell big fat lies ;) ) and the people who can peform autocoitus. So isn't that big of a issue. (and the map also shows that :-D ) _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 31 May 2012 22:35, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 May 2012 21:07, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 1:47 AM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: Andreas - you seem to have the belief that the pervasive exposure to pornography is having an adverse effect on community dynamics, and in particular is having a negative impact on the recruitment of women editors. Perhaps you might want to consider whether your pervasive discussions of pornography aren't having a similar effect. This is a great way to kill a thread, when twice in the last few hours, members of this forum have striven to redirect threads from the topic of pornography. Risker/Anne Anne, It is not about pervasive exposure to pornography at all. We have established – and all of us are in agreement on this point – that women generally are very rarely exposed to it in Wikipedia, unless they seek it out. The problem is that the male culture that likes its pornography out there, and rails against any limitation of it, even a token one like an opt-in filter, concomitantly ALSO happens to be sexist and unwelcoming to women, which is again something at least the women here are largely agreed on. Let's just leave it at that. Wikimedia has far and away the most pro-porn, anti-censorship/anti-filtering policy of any top-10 website. It also has the lowest female participation of all these 10 websites. I believe that it is appalling, and I believe that these two facts are closely related: you are welcome to disagree. I'm not disagreeing with you, Andreas. I'm saying that I'd really prefer not to find that just about every thread on the gendergap list wasn't discussing pornography in some way. If you think the culture that pornography creates on the project is harmful and is directly related to the low participation of women on the project, then why do you feel it's a good thing to perpetuate it on this list by constantly discussing it? I suggest to you that distilling the gendergap issue down to pro-porn culture when participants in the WikiWomen camp don't even rate this issue in its top 10, and the majority of women participating in discussion over the last few days are saying that it might be an issue but it's not the big issue, is pretty much a classic example of shouting over the voices of women who disagree with your focus. Please think about that for a bit. Risker/Anne ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] gendergap research
I think that better than ask why people don't contribute, is better tell them why SHOULD they? For us is easier to pass by the fact that not everyone knows why they should contribute. We should give they as much info as possible to make them a contributor, not asking why they don't do it. Contribution is almost always a question of motivation, if you don't motivate people to do it, they simply won't. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 30 May 2012 18:47, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: What research is needed? We have academics across the world who want to do research on Wikimedia. What questions can we put to the researchers in order to obtain a better understanding of * why women don't contribute? * what would help them contribute? * other? -- John Vandenberg ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] add gendergap list? / what stats hide
Answering B The lastest source of all gender stats is: http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AEditor_Survey_Report_-_April_2011.pdfpage=22which says woman are 9% of all editors (not 13% like says in the mailing list page) _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 12 May 2012 02:45, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote: hi @all, I have two questions, A. @list admin* B. in general A. I think that on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists in the list following The public mailing lists for the Wikipedia project include: gendergap should be added. how to describe the intention of this list? is this information still current? https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap B. ... and I always wonder why stats creators are so sure about knowing the gender of users behind user names - btw, either/or, apparently counting only two genders ... I would like to suggest that the list description for this list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap not repeat any such number in its list description, and certainly without pointing to the source of this information I also wonder what such statistics in particular may be intended to hide... as far as I am informed any stats (are designed to) hide more than they show ;-) thanks cheers, Claudia koltzenb...@w4w.net ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 02:13, Valerie Aurora vale...@adainitiative.org wrote: On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Kevin Gorman kgor...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all - As was announced several months ago, I am now one of the moderators of this list. Some time ago, there was a discussion on this list about behavioral standards for this list. There was widespread agreement in the initial thread that it's important for this list to remain a safe space for discussion, even if that means enforcing a behavioral standard higher than is the norm on other Wikimedia mailing lists. I think that given the nature of this list, it would be especially, extraordinarily, unusually counterproductive to allow a consistently combative or consistently uncivil environment to take root here. Given the previous thread about it, and some off-list conversations I've recently had, I know I am far from the only list member to feel that way. Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it. If, after an initial direct request to change their behavior, anyone behaves in a way that is significantly disruptive to this list, a way that is consistently uncivil, or a way that consistently makes other list members feel uncomfortable participating on this list, I will be putting them on +moderate, which means that all of their emails will be held until I approve them - and I'll only be approving emails that don't do those things. I obviously don't mean that dissenting opinions aren't okay; I think they should always be welcomed and moderation will not be done on the basis of the opinion someone expresses. But, I do think that all opinions can be expressed in a civil way that doesn't make other list members feel uncomfortable. We could create an enumerated list of rules trying to cover every scenario that could come up, but I don't think that would be necessary or productive. I think that most people realize when they stop over a line - and if they don't before someone else speaks up about it, they certainly should afterwards. I normally watch most traffic on this list, but I don't always (this week is finals for me :).) If you have a complaint about someone's behavior that you think needs moderator attention that has been missed, please send me a direct email. If someone else emails you asking to change your behavior or expressing discomfort in your posting style, please take a minute to step back and see if there could be something to their request. It's understandable that sometimes tensions will run high on gendergap issues and no one will be moderated unless their posts are consistently problematic even after being approached about it. Feedback on this is welcome, although the basic idea (that members whose presence is disruptive to this list being a safe space) is unlikely to totally change. Thanks, Kevin. This announcement agrees with my personal understanding of the role of a male ally. First, the action you are taking is in response to the expressed wishes of many women. Second, you took up this role after a long time of waiting for someone else to step up. Third, the actions you take will again be in response to the requests of many women. Acting in this capacity seems totally congruent with being an ally in my opinion. -VAL -- Increasing the participation of women in open technology and culture http://adainitiative.org ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards
Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men. Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _ *Béria Lima* * Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote: On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _ *Béria Lima* I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions. Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention. Tom ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards
And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people sitting on the corner? And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you need to earn it. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list. From, Emily On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men. Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _ *Béria Lima* * Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote: On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _ *Béria Lima* I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions. Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention. Tom ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards
Obviously not from me, or we would not having this talk. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 16:02, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Sarah has earned respect. Please give it. From, Emily On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people sitting on the corner? And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you need to earn it. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list. From, Emily On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men. Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _ *Béria Lima* * Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.comwrote: On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _ *Béria Lima* I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions. Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention. Tom ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards
Why do you write in capitals letters? _ *Béria Lima **Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 16:19, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. Why DOESN'T Sarah deserve your respect? From, Emily On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: Obviously not from me, or we would not having this talk. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 16:02, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Sarah has earned respect. Please give it. From, Emily On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people sitting on the corner? And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you need to earn it. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list. From, Emily On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men. Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _ *Béria Lima* * Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.comwrote: On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _ *Béria Lima* I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions. Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention. Tom ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards
George I'm a woman (a young lady if you're from UK)! There are no reason for you to address me with masculine pronouns ;) _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 16:27, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. Why DOESN'T Sarah deserve your respect? From, Emily I am not comfortable with Beria's stance either, but I don't know that confronting him on the list over it will help anything. We have personality conflicts on the list. The moderation should be independent of that and based on behavior not who likes or dislikes whom, I hope. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards
Actually the debate was that we need a new moderator on the team, and I suggested Laura. All the other debates you can ask Emily about. ;) _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 8 May 2012 16:34, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: A debate over civility and cultural definitions of due respect could go on forever and become quite contentious... This seems like it would be a good opportunity for Kevin or another moderator to step in and kill this thread before it gets further out of hand. ~Nathan ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Article Cumshot in English and German Wikipedia
Good idea Sarah. Prove everyone in the world we don't even have enough woman in the 9% of editors who can take a picture of some trivial thing. Prove the world the only way to have picture of girls in commons is hiring models and photographers to take them. I have NO idea why no one thought of this before! _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 6 May 2012 14:13, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/6/12 1:07 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote: On 5/2/2012 9:39 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Don't miss http://thehairpin.com/2011/01/women-laughing-alone-with-salad Where are women laughing as they chop up bloody sausage... To me I guess I see hostility and dominance in the kind of shots people have been complaining about. I don't think women should respond en masse with the same, but if no one responds at all, I feel it is my duty to mention bloody sausages. Of course, women have responded here, but I guess not enough of a ping in the fabric of world wide male dominance for me to keep my bloody sausages to my self... Hmmm... maybe I should write some of my favorite artists with suggestions Or get rich and commission a bunch of stuff I like... whatever the them... (Handsome male dogs of various breeds on their backs smiling and saying Scratch my belly mommy.) There was an idea brainstormed a little while back with me and a few other folks about seeking funding to have a Wiki Loves Women photography event that wanted photographers to take photographs of women - and this wouldn't be some broad crowdsourced thing like WLM, we would work with photographers, various models etc and make this legit with releases, etc - doing whatever we needed them to be better represented doing, so to say. So, wearing certain articles of clothing (i.e. go go boots), certain make up looks or uses, hairstyles, - places that are often poorly represented regarding women's stuff (i.e. men don't get manicures that often, sorry) even as extreme as sex acts, I also wanted to just have women doing things like mowing the lawn and planting flowers or pan searing salmon or whatever things need videos to represent them (and no, these women wouldn't be nude :P). The latter was inspired by Jenny Geigel Mikulay's work at Alverno College where she had her students (it's a women's college) make films of things like playing drums, the art museum building kinetic architecture time-lapsed, etc. All of these videos have been uploaded to Commons. Someday I'll do it =) I can see it being a project that would be a perfect fit for Kickstarter. Sarah -- *Sarah Stierch* *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow* Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate todayhttps://donate.wikimedia.org/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Article Cumshot in English and German Wikipedia
This is highly inappropriate: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beriadiff=3706794oldid=3691439(at that is just the last one, I can give you both a pile bigger than the Everest) And none of you are seing me complain about it. A single mail with irony and you run around claiming misogyny and rudeness? As the meme says: Bitch, pleasehttp://deborahdekrem.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/4f35923e34365_bitch-please.png ! _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 6 May 2012 14:35, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Excuse me, Beria, but I agree that your tone is, in fact, highly inappropriate. From, Emily On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: Sarah, until i tell you to fuck off I'm being respectful to you. Actually the simple meaning of taking time in my volunteer, no paid work as a wikimedian to answer your mail show I respect you. To your idea: Ever heard of OTRS system? I'm sure with all your work for GLAM you already did, so if you have some image you want in commons ask them to release in a compatible license. HIRE someone to take pictures for us is a very idiotic idea, with the full amount of great photographers who take pictures for free to upload on commons, even more, hire the models as well can almost qualify as the most idiot idea ever. I do believe in volunteer work Sarah, which is the basis of our wiki way. Try to get something by paying people to do where you simply don't know if can be done by volunteers - since no one ever asked - is, in my humble opinion, stupid. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 6 May 2012 14:24, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/6/12 1:20 PM, Béria Lima wrote: Good idea Sarah. Prove everyone in the world we don't even have enough woman in the 9% of editors who can take a picture of some trivial thing. Prove the world the only way to have picture of girls in commons is hiring models and photographers to take them. I have NO idea why no one thought of this before! Beria, I'd appreciate a more respectful tone. As always, with me, and anyone else on this list. The snarkiness of your comment isn't one to make me want to participate or share my brainstorms or ideas on this list. Just because you disagree with my idea, doesn't mean others might find value in it, and it might improve content. Not every woman wants to edit Wikipedia and I have met women who are photographers who have expressed interest in uploading photographs and also women who would rather participate as volunteers to be photographed. Using the term model does not necessarily mean traditional model body types of women. Anyone can be a model if you put them in front of a camera. Again, please be a bit more polite in your responses on this list. I know I'm not the only person who would appreciate that. Thank you, -Sarah _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 6 May 2012 14:13, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/6/12 1:07 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote: On 5/2/2012 9:39 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Don't miss http://thehairpin.com/2011/01/women-laughing-alone-with-salad Where are women laughing as they chop up bloody sausage... To me I guess I see hostility and dominance in the kind of shots people have been complaining about. I don't think women should respond en masse with the same, but if no one responds at all, I feel it is my duty to mention bloody sausages. Of course, women have responded here, but I guess not enough of a ping in the fabric of world wide male dominance for me to keep my bloody sausages to my self... Hmmm... maybe I should write some of my favorite artists with suggestions Or get rich and commission a bunch of stuff I like... whatever the them... (Handsome male dogs of various breeds on their backs smiling and saying Scratch my belly mommy.) There was an idea brainstormed a little while back with me and a few other folks about seeking funding to have a Wiki Loves Women photography event that wanted photographers to take photographs of women - and this wouldn't be some broad crowdsourced thing like WLM, we would work with photographers, various models etc and make this legit with releases, etc - doing whatever we needed them to be better represented doing, so to say. So, wearing certain articles of clothing (i.e. go go boots), certain make up looks or uses, hairstyles
Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards
I guess the better way to solve this is to place someone from the other side of the fight also on moderation. Why not Laura herself? _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 6 May 2012 20:46, Kevin Gorman kgor...@gmail.com wrote: @Risker: Sorry for not making it more clear in my initial post. Although Sue is a moderator, she chooses not to be active in most moderation decisions. Sarah and I talked about this, and she looked over, edited, (and agreed with) my initial email in this thread. I signed it personally instead of both of us doing so in part because, as Kaldari mentioned, she's frequently been the focus of situations where moderation might be a good idea, and she doesn't want to use a modhat against behavior directed towards her. Since a lot of the issues in the past have been directed towards her, she's asked me to be the primary handler of active moderation stuff for now. (If there ends up being a situation where problematic behavior is targeted towards me instead of her, I'll step back and ask her to handle it.) :There's no recent incident that has made me go 'oh, hey, I want to +moderate this person right this minute' - but there has been some recent stuff that has reminded us that this is something we've talked about before, and that it would be good to state publicly before there is a situation where we want to actually +moderate anyone. No one will be +moderated without getting an email from Sarah or myself first asking them to shift their behavior, and even then, we'll be moderating on a post by post basis and not completely removing anyone from the list. I'm hopeful that we won't actually need to moderate anyone ever, but wanted to publicly state that we will be doing so if we feel it's needed in the future before it came up. Re: the idea of additional moderators - although I haven't talked about it explicitly with Sue and Sarah, I like the idea, and I'm pretty sure they would too. If anyone would like to volunteer, please drop an email to Sarah or me offlist. Kevin Gorman ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Article Cumshot in English and German Wikipedia
As far as I remember the nake-hub of commons (As i call it) has no problem at all with homosexuality. Who has the problem is the other side of commons, the puritans (several here in that list) who cant see a naked picture - wherever is there is a man, a woman, a hetero sex relation, a gay or lesbian one. PS.: I just don't do the draw myself because I don't have the skills to do it. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 29 April 2012 21:19, Michelle Gallaway mgalla...@gmail.com wrote: This is a great idea. We'll see if the bleating that the image is educational is quite so strong if it's male-on-male ;-) On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Carol Moore DC carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/27/2012 3:45 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: I could have a go again, Carol. :) Gay porn is underrepresented in these articles. Andreas So if I was too implicit in my statement. As Andreas surmised, I meant re-do that photo to make it male on male. Or do a second one that's male on male. Go for it! As for female ejaculation since ejaculation is putting out sperm, I don't think women do it. Women obviously -- geez, I don't what you call it besides get wet. And maybe orgasms squeeze some of it out an orifice. But I don't think that's ejaculation. But I do now know I don't what the technical terms are or if there are any!! CM ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] World Naked Gardening Day
I agree with Carol. I have nothing against nude pictures (God knows how many fights i got into because of them) but that picture is more about the obvious sexual position than the gardening (which is the point of this article.) _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 7 April 2012 16:03, Carol Moore DC carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/7/2012 10:35 AM, Bob Sponge wrote: welcome to censorpedia we fight probalbly sexism with our own middle-age-view on the world and oppress any non appreciated right for free expression than we told the critics idiots The photo is obviously more about a sexy and stimulating phyical stance taken by a naked female than about illustrating the article's point. Just like a picture emphasizing an erect penis would be. There's a difference between censorship and avoiding prurient WP:Undue. __**_ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/gendergaphttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] WikiWomenCamp: Croatia?
I guess someone forgot. Sorry Roberta. Feel free to start the Croatia one. We didn't intend to offend you in any way. Please forgive us. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 16 February 2012 22:02, Roberta Flod roberta.f...@gmail.com wrote: Can you please explain to me why was the Croatian Wikipedia left out http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ ? And why hr:wiki was not informed about that? Six days have gone and still no information about that on hr:wiki Village pump. Croatian Wikipedia has more than 100,000+ articles, and it has a large number of editors. See: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias Croatian wikipedia is a very live and diverse community, and I am puzzled why has it been left out of your list. Awaiting your reply, Roberta F. http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suradnik:Roberta_F. Administrator and bureaucart http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bureaucrat- Croatian Wikipedia ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [cultural-partners] WikiWomenCamp: National perspectives on women and the movement (x-posted, apologies)
Again, I would like to point that meta is a wiki and all of us have usernames there. So I would suggest all of you to *be bold *and correct what is not correct in your opinion. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 13:18, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Laura - Thanks for asking for more contributions. I was wondering what was going on, since the project has seemed a bit quiet lately! Glad to know it's catching steam again. I made some edits a few months ago to the US section. (See comments below) On 2/1/12 5:18 AM, Lodewijk wrote: Perhaps it would be helpful if you could add some explanation why you are collecting this information, what you want to make clear. Because as I explained before to you privately (and I see nothing has changed) at least for the Netherlands the stats that have been put up are almost hilarious. Lots of percentages, but every Dutch person will be able to tell you that many of them are of no meaning (Ripuarian is not a language spoken at any significant level in the Netherlands, Zealandic is considered mainly a dialect and has 1 admin, of course there are no Dutch women in the enwiki arbcom, because to my best knowledge there are no Dutch people in there at all at this moment, and I would wonder why there are no Dutch female admins on the Portuguese Wikinews...) I am not sure if it is just me, but reading this page ( http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives/Netherlands ) I would almost think that this is a parody of something - I can't tell if it is the same in other countries. I've also been highly confused by these statistics. It confused me so much that I acted boldy and removed them from the United States section. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives#United_States When I started to see information on how there were no Portuguese women involved in Algerian Wikipedia I was like why would there be? and is this information here? I rewrote the majority of the section to just discuss women's roles in the United States - at WMF, as fellows, as researchers, as Wikimedians and active editors, etc. I created a list of people who are active US Wikimedians who are known to be women (didn't want to make assumptions about anyone) and some of the cool things they've been doing. Of course, these are limited to people I know, so I hope others are added (as someone did me). I also removed the US related on Wikipedia in regards to the subject matter (which was added back). I wasn't really sure why netball would be featured because it's not popular in America at all, so to me it doesn't really tell us anything, but it's not popular. Same with roller derby. (But other women's sports aren't discussed?) So I guess if someone has interest in discussing American women's sports, this area has room for expansion, or IMHO removal. And the list of popular biographies makes sense - Amy Winehouse died when this data was retrieved and I'm sure her popularity has been replaced. And it's no surprise that someone from Barbados is in the top 10 - it's Rhianna, and same for Nicki Minaj (two of the most famous pop stars in the world, at least in the US.) I just don't' think this shows much about women who contribute to Wikipedia except that people of all genders like reading articles about pop stars and media frenzies. I'm more curious about how women are active and what women are doing. Who are planning events, have those been successes? Are people being hired by Wiki companies? (Not just Wikimedia.) What is participation like regarding women and other Wiki websites? (This conference is about that right, not just Wikimedia?). Sadly I can't gather data on those, nor do I know how, but it would be cool to know what the most popular Wiki's are for women and so forth. I am sure your intentions are good though, so perhaps it would be helpful to state somewhere what kind of information you're looking for that is *really* informative, and get rid of the non-relevant parts? I would say that the semi-automated adding of information isn't exactly helpful in at least the Dutch case - again, I can't vouch for other countries. Some information *is* interesting (interest ratios on Facebook or other external websites) and it would be a waste if that gets discarded because of the irrelevance of the rest of the page. +1. I think this has really cool potential to focus on original research - just knowing who is doing what and sharing that information. I took the time on the US section to not only celebrate who is doing what, but, opportunities that women have been given in the movement in the US. I wanted people to see what women were doing
Re: [Gendergap] [cultural-partners] WikiWomenCamp: National perspectives on women and the movement (x-posted, apologies)
I can't answer for her, but I believe she was only gathering data. Since she isn't Brazilian or Indian or Dutch, maybe might be difficult for her to know what is excatly relevant or not. I put in my list correct Brazil's and Portugal's entry, but I still didn't find time to do so, but please - If anyone has the time, do it for your country (and for mine if you have spare time) :-) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 13:51, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect people have been hesitant to remove the information because it's not clear why it was added in the first place; on the whole, Wikimedians are content collectors rather than content removers, unless they are very comfortable that the information being removed is of no significant value or is actively harmful. Having a quick glance, I see comments like no women were elected to Arbcom for projects that don't have Arbcoms, and references to no women on projects that don't exist for that language group. As the majority of the data was completed by Laura (thanks for all your research!), perhaps she could help the list to understand what the intention was in including some of this information. Risker/Anne Risker/Anne On 1 February 2012 10:41, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: Again, I would like to point that meta is a wiki and all of us have usernames there. So I would suggest all of you to *be bold *and correct what is not correct in your opinion. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 13:18, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Laura - Thanks for asking for more contributions. I was wondering what was going on, since the project has seemed a bit quiet lately! Glad to know it's catching steam again. I made some edits a few months ago to the US section. (See comments below) On 2/1/12 5:18 AM, Lodewijk wrote: Perhaps it would be helpful if you could add some explanation why you are collecting this information, what you want to make clear. Because as I explained before to you privately (and I see nothing has changed) at least for the Netherlands the stats that have been put up are almost hilarious. Lots of percentages, but every Dutch person will be able to tell you that many of them are of no meaning (Ripuarian is not a language spoken at any significant level in the Netherlands, Zealandic is considered mainly a dialect and has 1 admin, of course there are no Dutch women in the enwiki arbcom, because to my best knowledge there are no Dutch people in there at all at this moment, and I would wonder why there are no Dutch female admins on the Portuguese Wikinews...) I am not sure if it is just me, but reading this page ( http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives/Netherlands ) I would almost think that this is a parody of something - I can't tell if it is the same in other countries. I've also been highly confused by these statistics. It confused me so much that I acted boldy and removed them from the United States section. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives#United_States When I started to see information on how there were no Portuguese women involved in Algerian Wikipedia I was like why would there be? and is this information here? I rewrote the majority of the section to just discuss women's roles in the United States - at WMF, as fellows, as researchers, as Wikimedians and active editors, etc. I created a list of people who are active US Wikimedians who are known to be women (didn't want to make assumptions about anyone) and some of the cool things they've been doing. Of course, these are limited to people I know, so I hope others are added (as someone did me). I also removed the US related on Wikipedia in regards to the subject matter (which was added back). I wasn't really sure why netball would be featured because it's not popular in America at all, so to me it doesn't really tell us anything, but it's not popular. Same with roller derby. (But other women's sports aren't discussed?) So I guess if someone has interest in discussing American women's sports, this area has room for expansion, or IMHO removal. And the list of popular biographies makes sense - Amy Winehouse died when this data was retrieved and I'm sure her popularity has been replaced. And it's no surprise that someone from Barbados is in the top 10 - it's Rhianna, and same for Nicki Minaj (two of the most famous pop stars in the world
Re: [Gendergap] [cultural-partners] WikiWomenCamp: National perspectives on women and the movement (x-posted, apologies)
We are not trying to fix gender gap here (here means: WWCamp ) Emijrp. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 18:03, emijrp emi...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/2/1 Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt I can't answer for her, but I believe she was only gathering data. Since she isn't Brazilian or Indian or Dutch, maybe might be difficult for her to know what is excatly relevant or not. The problem here is that you musn't try to fix a bias or imbalance (in this case: gender gap) when you don't understand the problem features and the details of every human group. I put in my list correct Brazil's and Portugal's entry, but I still didn't find time to do so, but please - If anyone has the time, do it for your country (and for mine if you have spare time) :-) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 13:51, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect people have been hesitant to remove the information because it's not clear why it was added in the first place; on the whole, Wikimedians are content collectors rather than content removers, unless they are very comfortable that the information being removed is of no significant value or is actively harmful. Having a quick glance, I see comments like no women were elected to Arbcom for projects that don't have Arbcoms, and references to no women on projects that don't exist for that language group. As the majority of the data was completed by Laura (thanks for all your research!), perhaps she could help the list to understand what the intention was in including some of this information. Risker/Anne Risker/Anne On 1 February 2012 10:41, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: Again, I would like to point that meta is a wiki and all of us have usernames there. So I would suggest all of you to *be bold *and correct what is not correct in your opinion. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 13:18, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote: Laura - Thanks for asking for more contributions. I was wondering what was going on, since the project has seemed a bit quiet lately! Glad to know it's catching steam again. I made some edits a few months ago to the US section. (See comments below) On 2/1/12 5:18 AM, Lodewijk wrote: Perhaps it would be helpful if you could add some explanation why you are collecting this information, what you want to make clear. Because as I explained before to you privately (and I see nothing has changed) at least for the Netherlands the stats that have been put up are almost hilarious. Lots of percentages, but every Dutch person will be able to tell you that many of them are of no meaning (Ripuarian is not a language spoken at any significant level in the Netherlands, Zealandic is considered mainly a dialect and has 1 admin, of course there are no Dutch women in the enwiki arbcom, because to my best knowledge there are no Dutch people in there at all at this moment, and I would wonder why there are no Dutch female admins on the Portuguese Wikinews...) I am not sure if it is just me, but reading this page ( http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives/Netherlands ) I would almost think that this is a parody of something - I can't tell if it is the same in other countries. I've also been highly confused by these statistics. It confused me so much that I acted boldy and removed them from the United States section. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives#United_States When I started to see information on how there were no Portuguese women involved in Algerian Wikipedia I was like why would there be? and is this information here? I rewrote the majority of the section to just discuss women's roles in the United States - at WMF, as fellows, as researchers, as Wikimedians and active editors, etc. I created a list of people who are active US Wikimedians who are known to be women (didn't want to make assumptions about anyone) and some of the cool things they've been doing. Of course, these are limited to people I know, so I hope others are added (as someone did me). I also removed the US related on Wikipedia in regards to the subject matter (which was added back). I wasn't really
Re: [Gendergap] [cultural-partners] WikiWomenCamp: National perspectives on women and the movement (x-posted, apologies)
Exact, just like Wikipedia :D _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 18:35, emijrp emi...@gmail.com wrote: No. You just want to write a book with no rigor. 2012/2/1 Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt We are not trying to fix gender gap here (here means: WWCamp ) Emijrp. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 18:03, emijrp emi...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/2/1 Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt I can't answer for her, but I believe she was only gathering data. Since she isn't Brazilian or Indian or Dutch, maybe might be difficult for her to know what is excatly relevant or not. The problem here is that you musn't try to fix a bias or imbalance (in this case: gender gap) when you don't understand the problem features and the details of every human group. I put in my list correct Brazil's and Portugal's entry, but I still didn't find time to do so, but please - If anyone has the time, do it for your country (and for mine if you have spare time) :-) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 13:51, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect people have been hesitant to remove the information because it's not clear why it was added in the first place; on the whole, Wikimedians are content collectors rather than content removers, unless they are very comfortable that the information being removed is of no significant value or is actively harmful. Having a quick glance, I see comments like no women were elected to Arbcom for projects that don't have Arbcoms, and references to no women on projects that don't exist for that language group. As the majority of the data was completed by Laura (thanks for all your research!), perhaps she could help the list to understand what the intention was in including some of this information. Risker/Anne Risker/Anne On 1 February 2012 10:41, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: Again, I would like to point that meta is a wiki and all of us have usernames there. So I would suggest all of you to *be bold *and correct what is not correct in your opinion. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 13:18, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote: Laura - Thanks for asking for more contributions. I was wondering what was going on, since the project has seemed a bit quiet lately! Glad to know it's catching steam again. I made some edits a few months ago to the US section. (See comments below) On 2/1/12 5:18 AM, Lodewijk wrote: Perhaps it would be helpful if you could add some explanation why you are collecting this information, what you want to make clear. Because as I explained before to you privately (and I see nothing has changed) at least for the Netherlands the stats that have been put up are almost hilarious. Lots of percentages, but every Dutch person will be able to tell you that many of them are of no meaning (Ripuarian is not a language spoken at any significant level in the Netherlands, Zealandic is considered mainly a dialect and has 1 admin, of course there are no Dutch women in the enwiki arbcom, because to my best knowledge there are no Dutch people in there at all at this moment, and I would wonder why there are no Dutch female admins on the Portuguese Wikinews...) I am not sure if it is just me, but reading this page ( http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives/Netherlands ) I would almost think that this is a parody of something - I can't tell if it is the same in other countries. I've also been highly confused by these statistics. It confused me so much that I acted boldy and removed them from the United States section. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives#United_States When I started to see information on how there were no Portuguese women involved in Algerian Wikipedia I was like why would there be? and is this information here? I rewrote the majority of the section to just discuss women's roles
Re: [Gendergap] Fwd: Re: [cultural-partners] Call for nominations: chapter-appointed seats on the WMF Board of Trustees
Yes Sarah, you can (and please, PLEASE do) cross post this. I put in pretty much all the lists I'm on, but that exclude several lists, please announce this as much as possible. :) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 1 February 2012 00:13, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Assuming I can cross post this, as it's popped up on a few lists I'm on. Please see below - perhaps *you* should run for the board :) -Sarah Original Message Subject: Re: [cultural-partners] Call for nominations: chapter-appointed seats on the WMF Board of Trustees Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:09:57 -0200 From: Béria Lima berial...@gmail.comberial...@gmail.com Reply-To: Wikimedia Chapters cultural partners coordination cultural-partn...@wikimedia.ch cultural-partn...@wikimedia.ch To: Wikimedia Chapters cultural partners coordination cultural-partn...@wikimedia.chcultural-partn...@wikimedia.ch cross posting _ *Béria Lima* (351) 925 171 484 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 31 January 2012 22:05, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote: The Wikimedia chapters are seeking to appoint two candidates to sit on the Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees for two years, starting 1 July 2012. The two new members of the board will help to decide the future direction of the world’s leading non-profit website. Wikimedia project are constructed by hundreds of thousands of volunteers worldwide, supported by a growing number of staff and an international network of chapters. Board membership is unpaid. The chapters wish to appoint two excellent board members and believe this can best be achieved by selecting from a large number of varied and skilled candidates. Therefore, the chapters call for nominations by everyone who believes they or someone they know would be suitable. The chapters ask that this call for candidates be distributed as widely as possible through such forums as mailing lists, village pumps, and blogs. The successful candidates will be committed to the Wikimedia mission and willing and able to engage constructively with the stakeholders of the movement, including the volunteers and the chapters that provide it with essential support. The successful candidates will have: - The ability to provide expertise to the board in its goal of implementing a coherent vision on how the projects’ communities, the foundation, the chapters, and other affiliated groups work together; - Sensitivity to complex issues surrounding the multiplicity of languages, cultures, and jurisdictions served by the foundation’s projects; - Knowledge and understanding of the governance of international non-profit organizations, balancing autonomy and subsidiarity; - The ability to think strategically and to work both as part of a team and independently; - A good standard of written and oral English (fluency in additional language would be well regarded); - Sufficient time to devote to the role of board member, and the ability and willingness to travel. Increasing the geographical diversity of current board membership would be an advantage. The selection process is set out here:http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapter-selected_Board_seats Nominations must be sent to the moderator Béria Lima (Wikimedia Portugal) and deputy moderators Milos Rancic (Wikimedia Serbia) and Mardetanha (Wikimedia steward from Iran) by 23:59 UTC, 29 February. If you would like to nominate yourself or someone else, please see the instructions here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapter-selected_Board_seats/2012/Nominate *Béria Lima*, Moderator ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] article differentials/unnecessary drama
Hi Erin. First we are - and we never - discussed *Content that deals primarily with women is systematically underdeveloped throughout the projects* what we did discussed here was 3 or 4 articles *from en.wiki* that Sarah thinks need to be remade. As far as I know, we have more than 700 projects... en.wiki can be the biggest, but is not the only one. And even if we changed all the articles in this language, would not do much for the other several million woman around the world. And we are trying to solve the gender gap in all the projects here, not only in en.wiki and not only in USA. So forgive me if I do believe that discuss 3 en.wiki articles will do nothing as far as gender gap solve is concerned. Might be good examples to someone when they are doing a presentation, but that is as far as this can go. And one think is discuss something - even when people have different opinion than yours, another completely different is play the *poor me, nothing I do is good* every time someone has a criticism against your work. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 26 December 2011 02:34, Erin O'Rourke orourk...@gmail.com wrote: I'll echo Kevin's words, as I couldn't have said it better myself: To me, article differentials like this are one of the most interesting manifestations of the gender gap, and are worth talking about on this list. Content that deals primarily with women is systematically underdeveloped throughout the projects, and that is a big deal. The gendergap would still be disturbing even if this weren't the case - but to me at least, the systemic underdevelopment of content is probably the single most worrisome issue involved. And while I may not jumping to join in on conversations regarding photos of questionable value to Wikipedia I think it prompts important discussions about how to shape the policy and culture of Wikipedia while preserving the intention of the site. In addition, if you're calling for less drama I'd suggest you heed your own words, Beria. Pete's response did not imply you're not qualified to talk but rather called for some more constructive feedback and ideas. Obviously you're doing a lot for the gender gap and that's great. On the other hand, the attitude is completely uncalled for. -- Erin O'Rourke http://erin-orourke.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pimp
*I must say, you are the first person to openly complain, and if others feel strongly about it I can cease sharing content that I think needs urgent help or peer review. * Well, I second Caroline. I already said this in Foundation-l but again: I don't think that delete pictures of Wikipe-tan, remove a vagina from the article with the same name or create a article for a female pimp (only to mention a few cases I remember now) are the way we will solve gender gap. So yes, please stop post this here, or use the wikiEN-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-lmailing list. And Sarah, this If you don't like you can sign the digest mode sounds rude to me, as if you are inviting her to leave. (I'm not a english native, but that is how appears to me) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 December 2011 17:03, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Caroline, I apologize if my occasional posting of an interesting article in English Wikipedia has been a burden, deterrent, or has went against the goal of this mailing list for you. Since I have joined, it has been something we have been doing, and the past month or so the list has been rather quiet compared to other times in the past. In the past, when we have shared articles of questionable matter, subject, sexism, or other issues, we've had great success of working together or independently to improve those articles, and often those improvements have been done by women who are on this list, which is very cool. I of course urge folks in any language to share content, however, with most Wikipedia mailing lists, systematic language bias does exist, as many are in English, though I know that was not the main point of your post. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll probably start out discussing it on the talk page of the article and also the project page. Again, I apologize if my own interests in article improvement in English Wikipedia have deterred or went against the mission of this mailing list. I must say, you are the first person to openly complain, and if others feel strongly about it I can cease sharing content that I think needs urgent help or peer review. As you did state, we could be pointing out issues of sexism all the time, however, sometimes I feel there are things of interest to the broader community, or something that might interest someone. (And while it has mainly been me lately, if you explore the history of the mailing list it's usually not just me flooding up your mailbox =) ) I also must add, my sharing of articles of interest and concern have wielded nothing but positive on.Wiki improvement of these subjects, which for me, means the closing of the gender gap in a different manner - one more subject area related to women or women's history which is covered in a more equal and respectful manner. We also offer, as you probably know, a digest mode, so, if this list is too busy for you (I think we are rather minimal these days, compared to lists such as internal-l and foundation-l) that might be something to consider. I'm glad you have joined and chosen to participate, and I am really sorry if my posts have been intruding. Sarah *Sarah Stierch* Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate todayhttp://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=WMFJA085/en/USutm_source=WMdonateutm_medium=sidebarutm_campaign=20110130SB003language=enuselang=encountry=USreferrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwikimediafoundation.org%2Fwiki%2FHome On 12/25/11 5:59 AM, Caroline Becker wrote: Hi everyone, I'm sorry that my first post on the gender-gap list is a little mean. I'm a wikipedia-fr admin, active member of Wikimédia France chapter and a member of the OTRS team. Yet, since I've joined gender-gap a week early, I receive more mails from this list than all the other lists together. I'm also not a native English speaker, which means every mail takes me a little longer of my time. I thought the goal of this list was to discuss about women on wikimedia projects and how to attract new ones. I don't think it is useful to point out every single piece of sexism from en-wikipedia, in articles and discussion pages, for that. Or start http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gender_gap/en-wikipedia. I could point out sexism comments from fr-wikipedia every day, but I'm really not sure it is a constructive thing to do. To come back to Madam vs Pimp, I think you either should start the discussion there : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Sexology_and_sexuality, or stop asking permission to create articles. If it bothers someone, she will ask for a fusion. Caroline (User:Léna) 2011/12/25 Sarah
Re: [Gendergap] Bothersome? (Re: Pimp)
*I'm looking forward to hearing what Caroline would like to discuss, or Beria.* Well Peter, when I come here (the day the list was created) the idea was to create a list to discuss HOW TO REDUCE GENDER GAP (in caps to make it more clear), that was the propose and that was the one I accepted. So far, I saw lots of discussions about en.wiki articles and images, and very little about the main objective of this list. I'm asking too much that we actually start discuss what we came here to discuss? I don't think so. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 December 2011 19:41, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed. On Christmas (or any other day), I am thankful this list helps move things forward in a variety of ways, for a variety of different people. I'm looking forward to hearing what Caroline would like to discuss, or Beria. But glad to know your thoughts on pimp and madam sarah, and to see a suggested path to improving wikipedia content. I do enjoy that stuff the most. Collabotative encyclopedia writing is fucking awesome, and I love how everybody goes about it a little differently. Pete On Dec 25, 2011 11:25 AM, Ole Palnatoke Andersen palnat...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: ... It's a shame that my posts have been so bothersome for the list, I never knew that I was only making things worse, or not helping at all. I, for one, do not find your posts bothersome. I find no problem with having one gender-neutral article for barbers and hairdressers or for pimps and madams, but I do find it better to have *two* good articles on the respective subjects. Regards, Ole -- http://palnatoke.org * @palnatoke * +4522934588 ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Global perspectives on women and Wikimedia projects: Bangladesh
that is a very interesting report. Thanks Laura for show it to us. (Tanvir fwed it to WMBD mailing list, so i suppose he also thinks is interesting :D) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 December 2011 19:47, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote: In preparation for WikiWomenCamp and the sister conference open to people of all genders for discussing the gender gap (we'll get a name chosen and do a formal announcement soon!) , we're writing and asking for your assistance in writing about the involvement of and content related to women on Wikimedia projects from around the world. Today, we're looking at Bangladesh. If you can help improve this, please do. Many thanks to Tanvir, WM-BN's secretary, for providing insight into what is going on. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives/Bangladesh [image: Flag of Bangladesh.svg] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh Bangladesh [image: people standing in a group wearing Wikipedia shirts]http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kite_flying2011_065.JPG http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kite_flying2011_065.JPG A Wikipedia 10th Birthday celebration in Bangladesh Bengali Wikimedia projects have very few female contributors. Those that they do have do not contribute on a consistent, regular basis; they edit sporadically. In Bangladesh, women often attend events by the Chapter and others in the country. There are female participants who attend every meet-up. Most of the time, these are new faces and there is a problem in getting the same women to consistently show up to events in order to build up a regular base of active female participants. Currently Wikimedia Bangladesh http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh has no female members in the board. The board is planning to find a woman from the country to be a a Bengali participant in at WikiWomenCamp in Argentina. In December 2011, there were 1,700 women of all ages from Bangladesh who were interested in Wikipedia on Facebook.[1]https://www.facebook.com/ads/create/ 0.06% of all Wikipedia traffic comes from Bangladesh.[2]http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportPageViewsPerCountryBreakdown.htm Most editors in Bangladesh edit the Bengali Wikipedia but 91.1% view English Wikipedia. There are many articles about Bengali actresses on the Bengali Wikipedia. These articles were mostly created by male contributors. There is an effort by a Bengali editor to take the Bengali language article about Angelina Joliehttp://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A6%85%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%9E%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%9C%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B2%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BE_%E0%A6%9C%E0%A7%8B%E0%A6%B2%E0%A6%BF to Featured. As of December 2011, there are zero featured articles about women on Bengali Wikipedia. There are two articles about female sport people: an athlete and a chess player. There are 10 articles about female film actresses from Bangladeshhttp://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%B7%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%BC%E0%A6%B6%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%A3%E0%A7%80:%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%82%E0%A6%B2%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B6%E0%A7%80_%E0%A6%85%E0%A6%AD%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A8%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%A4%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%80, 10 articles about female television actresses from Bangladesh, 3 articles about female Bangladeshi stage actresses and 13 articles about Bangladeshi singers. On Bengali Wikipedia, there are 4 articles about Bangladeshi social workershttp://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%B7%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%BC%E0%A6%B6%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%A3%E0%A7%80:%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%82%E0%A6%B2%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B6%E0%A7%80_%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%9C%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%AE%E0%A7%80, 3 of whom women. The amount of women specific content in Bengali, and Bangaldeshi women content, is limited. The Bengali word for User is gender neutral; the name space does not indicate the gender of the user on Wikimedia projects. On English Wikipedia, there are 11 articleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bangladeshi_women_in_politics women in politics, 4 articleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bangladeshi_feminists about Bangladeshi feminists. There are 0 articles about women's basketball teamshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Category:Women%27s_basketball_teams in this country on English Wikipedia. There are 0 articles about women's basketball teamshttp://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Club_de_basket-ball_f%C3%A9minin in this country on French Wikipedia. There are 0 articles about women's basketball teamshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:%E5%A5%B3%E5%AD%90%E3%83%90%E3%82%B9%E3%82%B1%E3%83%83%E3%83%88
Re: [Gendergap] Bothersome? (Re: Pimp)
Is kinda funny that you ask what I'm doing, Peter. Sounds like unless I'm being paid for WMF to deal with Gender Gap I shouldn't have a voice, and shut the f*** up. But anyway You wanna know what I'm doing? I tell you: I'm organizing not one, but 2 conferences with focus in the women in this movement. The first one is the - already announced here - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp and the second (1 day after this one) is a Gender Gap specify conference who will happens in the same place and city (more about this one soon). I also already made a presentation about Gender Gap to an event in India: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gender_Gap_in_Wikimedia_projects.pdf Now I'm qualified to talk? _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 December 2011 20:04, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Beria, Yes, that is why I'm here as well. And I confess that right now, I do not have a grand theory of how to fix it all; but I'm glad to talk about, or work on, little ideas while the big ideas percolate. Beria, you and I have both been here for a long time, both on the Gender Gap list and on Wikimedia projects generally. And unless I'm missing something, I don't think either of us have offered up a plan of how to explore or reduce the gender gap. I agree with you that posts like Sarah's are probably not getting to the core of the gender gap issue (and I suspect she would agree) -- but personally, I don't think they do any harm, and I do think they help people on this list find opportunities to work together and begin to develop working relationships. But..that's beside the point. How about if you and I both make an effort to suggest issues this list could take on that would be useful? I would be very interested to hear how you would like to approach things, and I could probably manage to string together my thoughts in a useful way as well. What do you think? Let's propose some alternative, or additional, directions the discussion here might take. -Pete On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: *I'm looking forward to hearing what Caroline would like to discuss, or Beria.* Well Peter, when I come here (the day the list was created) the idea was to create a list to discuss HOW TO REDUCE GENDER GAP (in caps to make it more clear), that was the propose and that was the one I accepted. So far, I saw lots of discussions about en.wiki articles and images, and very little about the main objective of this list. I'm asking too much that we actually start discuss what we came here to discuss? I don't think so. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 December 2011 19:41, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed. On Christmas (or any other day), I am thankful this list helps move things forward in a variety of ways, for a variety of different people. I'm looking forward to hearing what Caroline would like to discuss, or Beria. But glad to know your thoughts on pimp and madam sarah, and to see a suggested path to improving wikipedia content. I do enjoy that stuff the most. Collabotative encyclopedia writing is fucking awesome, and I love how everybody goes about it a little differently. Pete On Dec 25, 2011 11:25 AM, Ole Palnatoke Andersen palnat...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: ... It's a shame that my posts have been so bothersome for the list, I never knew that I was only making things worse, or not helping at all. I, for one, do not find your posts bothersome. I find no problem with having one gender-neutral article for barbers and hairdressers or for pimps and madams, but I do find it better to have *two* good articles on the respective subjects. Regards, Ole -- http://palnatoke.org * @palnatoke * +4522934588 ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Awesomeness: The amount of female volunteer leadership in the Wikimedia Movement
well, the more info the best. So put everything in Federico :) Info is never too much :) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 20 December 2011 21:29, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Laura Hale, 20/12/2011 22:02: If you have the time and knowledge, it would be fantastic if you could help fill in the details about your own county: What are historical membership totals in your home chapter? What has the historical female presence on your chapter's board been? What do you want to know, exactly? Average ratio of female founders, members and board members and female board members roles, across all years? Nemo ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] WP stalking
Cristina, I will not try to give you any advice on this. But what I do in those cases (I already received lots of threaning e-mails and some phone calls - also several wiki-attacks) and basically what I do is inform the ISP (in case when I know the IP adress) or block any call from that number (in case of phone calls). And basically ignore it. From my experience in pt.wiki, as long as you give them much attention, they will never stop. So - in my case - ignore it works. ... but I - in your place - would remove the Userbox from the page, just in case. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 13 November 2011 20:41, Christine Meyer christinewme...@gmail.comwrote: I've heard about this kind of thing happening to other women in Wikipedia, but this is the first time this has ever happened to me personally. A few weeks ago, I got a phone call from a guy who said he wanted to talk to me about what it was like being the parent of children with special needs. He also said that he got my number from my church, so I told him that I was busy at the moment (which I was) and that he could call me back later. Yesterday afternoon, he called me back. I asked him where he got my number and how he found out about my parenting status. He said that he read what I had written on Wikipedia about my children, and that he wanted to talk to me about it because he was also developmentally disabled and had some syndrome that I didn't recognize. (It wasn't Asberger's, I don't think.) He also said that he had gotten my number from some church thing, and that they had confirmed my phone number. I told him that it was very inappropriate for him to call me, and he said, Well, you said I could call you back! I answered that I was in the middle of something the first time he called me, repeated how inappropriate he was being, and that I wasn't willing to speak with him over the phone. He said, You said all that on Wikipedia, and I said that I didn't have my phone number there, to which he responded, But your email address is there, and I said he could email me but calling me was again, inappropriate, and we hung up. Like I said, it was the first time something like this has happened, even after more than four years of active participation in WP. It's somewhat disconcerting to me. When I think about it, this guy had to actively hunt down my phone number. He looked at my userpage, which has infoboxes stating that I'm a parent of two children with developmental disabilities, that I live in a small town in Idaho, and that I'm Catholic. (This makes me want to remove those infoboxes.) He actually went to the trouble of calling one of the the two Catholic churches in my town and confirm my number with them, which they did quite honestly because I'm on a church committee and active in the community. Freaky, huh? I know that you need to tell people when something like this happens, especially people in your life. (I haven't been able to tell my husband about it yet; he's been working all weekend and we're coming off of a particularly stressful family situation.) So that's what I'm doing now. I can totally see why so many women don't identify their gender on WP now. I'd also like to get some advice from the members of this list, and to see if anyone else has had a similar experience and what they did about it. Thanks, Christine -- Christine W. Meyer User: Figureskatingfan christinewme...@gmail.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
*It would not have to be a gender related issue for this to occur.* Fred is right in that point. I'm not a gender editor (my articles almost never have problems with gender issues), however, the topic is one where you can find the most biased people on earth: Religion. And I would say you case was not the worst one, the worst case i can imagine (and already happened with me several times) is to remove biased info (or include NPOV info) in an article about a religion / god / dogma who is watched by some believer of the same god / religion. ;) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 24 October 2011 18:54, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: I've never particularly felt the boys club atmosphere on Wikipedia that apparently deters some women. However, I am very angry right now. I tried to add [[date rape]] as a see also link to the very incomplete article [[college dating]]. The relevance seemed obvious to me. It was removed by two separate people, and when I took it to the talk page, its relevance was questioned, and I was told to prove it because it was obvious to whom? Fine. I've proven it with sourcing, adding a small section. I think that needed to happen anyway, but I'm infuriated that I could not just add a see also link to it and tell the students who are really working on the article that a section needed adding. (The people who removed the link are seasoned Wikipedians, not members of the class developing the article.) Am I crazy? LadyofShalott No, that is the usual reaction of biased editors of all persuasions, to throw their mind out of gear, when obvious conclusions which contradict their bias are advanced. It would not have to be a gender related issue for this to occur. Fred ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Ada Lovelace from her namesake non-profit
BTW, The article Ada Iniciative does not exist in english Wikipedia. No one want to create it? ;) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 10 October 2011 14:22, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, The Ada Initiative has donated an awesome illustration of Ada Lovelacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelaceto Wikimedia Commons under Universal Public Domain. It's really wonderful! (Another possible award image I'm thinking..) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ada_Lovelace.tif Please spread the word and thanks to the Ada Initiativehttp://adainitiative.org/for sharing this awesome artwork with the world. -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] washington dc
Sandra, can you provide more info? Like, what the buzz says, where you saw and so on... That might make the job easier to WMDC members to answer it ;) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 7 October 2011 02:49, Sandra ordonez sandratordo...@gmail.com wrote: sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth. ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] washington dc
Well, whatever is he/she is not in the board: http://wikidc.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 7 October 2011 12:49, Sandra ordonez sandratordo...@gmail.com wrote: Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations. Isn't the next Wikimania in D.C.? This sends out a horrible message to people if its true - definitely not one of empowerment. this is a pretty hardcore problem. If this is this the case, then i suggest that as a group, we try to draw attention to this issue, or the location for Wikimania be changed. Not only is this F-ed up for internal people, but I can't imagine a reporter not jumping on this story. Obviously, this sends out a horrible message to women everywhere including, in my opinion, giving the impression that there are no repercussions for bad behavior. Seriously f-ed up. On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: Sandra, can you provide more info? Like, what the buzz says, where you saw and so on... That might make the job easier to WMDC members to answer it ;) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 7 October 2011 02:49, Sandra ordonez sandratordo...@gmail.com wrote: sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth. ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- *Sandra Ordonez* *Web Astronaut* (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world. *www.collaborativenation.com* ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] More Dangerous to be a Woman Than a Soldier
*This is something that's been on my mental list of articles to write someday... Rape in the U.S. Military * Can you find sources for this article Carol? We all know that exist, but I don't see many people talking about it. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 4 October 2011 17:45, carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: This is something that's been on my mental list of articles to write. Someday... Rape in the U.S. Military Just searched rape U.S. military in wikipedia and just a mention of Okinawa, not the horrific statistics. Crime and U.S. military (safer article to start with to avoid AfD) showed nothing as well. Put a note on feminist wikiproject (i'm flustered dealing with crashing computer, new one in mail, and occupying DC, or a day or two anyway, just long enough to convince them -- well, let's not talk politics... but I do have some sexist pig peace activists I'll probably be running into... one of whom has a vanity article on wikipedia... don't get me started... Carol in dc On 10/4/2011 12:28 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote: Intense (and brief) piece from Forbes about women as victims in war in Africa: http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/10/04/more-dangerous-to-be-a-woman-than-a-soldier/ You'll also notice that Forbe's cites Wikipedia's article about micro-lending! - ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Women on Wikimedia group
Let's not reinvent the wheel, shall we? A group like Maggie described already exist - for years - under the name Wikichix-l (see http://lists.modernthings.org/listinfo.cgi/wikichix-l-modernthings.org ) Is a mailing list who exist since December 2006http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS/foundation-l-archives/2006_12_03-09and the sumary of creation was *Angela Beesley announced the creation of a mailing listhttp://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikichix-land Wiki http://wikichix.org/ for female WMF-projects editors to discuss gender bias and ways to make the projects more inviting for women. Discussion followed on whether this is a positive development, and whether a number of other divisions will (or should) spring up after this.* _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 2 October 2011 04:51, Lika Tika likatikalikat...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, This is my first time contributing to this list. First, I'd like to say that I don't think it's inappropriate to create an optional women only space. As Maggie mentioned, she is not interested in replacing this discussion. Protected spaces for minorities may be useful, especially considering the atmosphere sometimes present in this project. I do think it's interesting that men have repeatedly told the women in this discussion to essentially pipe down, or that they're doing things all wrong. Not that it might not be true, but they have certainly gone about it in a way that comes dangerously close to 'mansplaining.' Thanks for the invite, Maggie, I'll be joining you. Lika On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Marc Riddell michaeldavi...@comcast.netwrote: on 10/1/11 7:37 PM, Maggie at rockerre...@gmail.com wrote: I've created this group as a women's-only group to discuss things without being inhibited by a male presence, Maggie, ...inhibited by a male presence [?] Isn't this a personal issue that, I hope, each person would want to address within themselves; instead of joining a group that merely enables facilitates it? If the goal is to more solidly bridge the gap between the genders in the project - this is definitely not the way to go about it. Marc Riddell ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Women on Wikimedia group
I'm there for months and I must say is a pretty quiet mailing list. And we have around 60 members. No dia 2 de Out de 2011 09:32, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com escreveu: On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: Let's not reinvent the wheel, shall we? A group like Maggie described already exist - for years - under the name Wikichix-l (see http://lists.modernthings.org/listinfo.cgi/wikichix-l-modernthings.org ) Is a mailing list who exist since December 2006 and the sumary of creation was Angela Beesley announced the creation of a mailing list and Wiki for female WMF-projects editors to discuss gender bias and ways to make the projects more inviting for women. Discussion followed on whether this is a positive development, and whether a number of other divisions will (or should) spring up after this. would it be possible for wikichix-l to give a summary or stats of activity on the list (number of active participants, etc)? -- John Vandenberg ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Women on Wikimedia group
I'm not sure if I can talk about wikichix-l here (since is a private ml after all). Let me ask them and them I come to you with a answer :) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 2 October 2011 09:56, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Have wikichix-l talked about possible solutions to the gender gap? -- John Vandenberg ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
I'm sorry Carol, but Sue's post is 3 times bigger than my mail, and all of us read it. Time is not the problem here. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 1 October 2011 15:18, carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: Most of us don't have time to read through long email(s) and a long article trying to figure out what sentence or two someone claims is a lie. Not very useful to the discussion, not to mention civil. On 9/30/2011 5:49 AM, Béria Lima wrote: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-September/069078.html _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:37, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: Would you like to elaborate? Ryan Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:35 PM, Béria Lima wrote: I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up for even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post. Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to come here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list safe, only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 8, Issue 76
Do you actually know that the 9% I reffer is the study who shows that only 9% of wp users are female, right? Because for your answer I don't quite think you did. And I'm here because I'm a woman and a wikipedian. I'm sorry if I don't felt under group pression and thinks exactly like you do. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 1 October 2011 14:55, Maggie rockerre...@gmail.com wrote: @Beria I'm not clear what point you are trying to prove, other than the 9% of girls' voices don't matter. I also find it questionable that you refer to women as girls and don't hesitate ponder why you don't call men boys. Many women, like myself, get driven off of WP due to frustration with the hierarchy, which does exist. Women are treated with less respect, women are questioned for their motives, women are called prudish if they object to sexualizing images--or they are told their voices are not important because they only comprise 9% of the population. Why do you think they only comprise 9% then? My goal on WP is to make it more diverse, and TBH I'm not too into this picture discussion that has gone on for months. But it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter or it isn't an important one, and it doesn't mean that the women who care about it aren't important. Offense is not the reason here, IMO. Offense barely scratches the surface. I can imagine that many of the people on this list are angry--they are angry that women are being objectified and because women are in the minority on the community and it's an uninviting, sometimes terribly creepy atmosphere, their voices do not matter. As for badly written? My god that is the worst you can say? In writing terms that is just snide and a low blow. Basically, only someone who can think of no other insult would say this. Well it's badly written and has spelling mistakes! Come on, get a fucking life. Wikipedia is set up so that only people who look for these articles/pictures will know about voting procedures. So of course if there is a vote, the majority would probably be overall positive unless serious canvassing went on to let people who care about the other side know about it so it evens out. Canvassing is set up to prevent this--I believe it's actually a way of biasing the community to serve only the community, and not the readers. Because the readers are--the world. Telling people about the topic is just like how any election goes. I guess unless you are in some sort of fake election where people are led to believe that their votes actually count. Nowhere did you prove that she lied in that article. You only stated how you disagree with her opinion. Obviously you are not part of this group for the interest of women, otherwise you would care about that 9%'s opinion---so why are you subscribing??? --Maggie On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 5:49 AM, B?ria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt wrote: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-September/069078.html _ *B?ria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde ? dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somat?rio de todo o conhecimento humano. ? isso o que estamos a fazer.* ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 8, Issue 76
Caps and big letters in internet language means you're screaming. I'm not deaf, and even if I was, I'm - Thanks God - not listening you. So again, as they say in portuguese: A porta da rua é a serventia da casa - use g translate. Your offenses, like Maggie, means nothing to me. IF you had a bit of education - not to much to ask - we could talk. Since you dont... _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 1 October 2011 19:39, Ralph Teckentrup ador...@gmx.net wrote: Béria, ** ** every single post from you to this list or the foundation list was rude, impolite, disrespectful and sometimes openly aggressive. You never explained what the alleged “lies” are, you called other people ass kissers and so on. Could you please behave in a manner that makes it possible to read this list without distaste? ** ** Regards ** ** Ralph – who usually doesn’t contribute to this list ** ** *Von:* gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *Im Auftrag von *Béria Lima *Gesendet:* Samstag, 1. Oktober 2011 18:39 *An:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects *Betreff:* Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 8, Issue 76 ** ** Ok. I said to myself that I would not answer that personal attack, but seens that you people want to. So lets go answer your questions Ms. Maggie (sorry if is offensive not threat you for your last name, but you never said it, so). I do should advice that my politeness will not be present in this mail, so if someone get offended, I'm sorry. *I'm not clear what point you are trying to prove, other than the 9% of girls' voices don't matter. I also find it questionable that you refer to women as girls and don't hesitate ponder why you don't call men boys.* First, you need to read my mail again. I never said female voices does not matter. Read again and them come back to talk. And I do reffer man as boys as well, If you knew me a bit more you would know that. *Many women, like myself, get driven off of WP due to frustration with the hierarchy, which does exist. Women are treated with less respect, women are questioned for their motives, women are called prudish if they object to sexualizing images--or they are told their voices are not important because they only comprise 9% of the population*. I'm a woman (or girl) and a Wikipedian for 5 years. I know exactly how we are treated there. And the funny part of it, is that you are complaining that they question your motives, but you have no problems questioning mine. Funny how is easy to do when is not with you right? *Why do you think they only comprise 9% then?* Your hero Sue wrote a post about that in November. Read it. *My goal on WP is to make it more diverse, and TBH I'm not too into this picture discussion that has gone on for months. But it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter or it isn't an important one, and it doesn't mean that the women who care about it aren't important. * So if you are about make it more diverse you should not be trying to push people away. Remember that girls are only 9% of us, and even the ones who don't agree with you are important. *Offense is not the reason here, IMO. Offense barely scratches the surface. I can imagine that many of the people on this list are angry--they are angry that women are being objectified and because women are in the minority on the community and it's an uninviting, sometimes terribly creepy atmosphere, their voices do not matter. As for badly written? My god that is the worst you can say? In writing terms that is just snide and a low blow. Basically, only someone who can think of no other insult would say this. Well it's badly written and has spelling mistakes! * I'm sorry but that is your hero's Sue arguments, not mine. And I DON'T subscribe them. *Come on, get a fucking life.* Works both ways. And get a manners teacher who will teach you to not offend other people. *Wikipedia is set up so that only people who look for these articles/pictures will know about voting procedures. So of course if there is a vote, the majority would probably be overall positive unless serious canvassing went on to let people who care about the other side know about it so it evens out. Canvassing is set up to prevent this--I believe it's actually a way of biasing the community to serve only the community, and not the readers. Because the readers are--the world. Telling people about the topic is just like how any election goes. I guess unless you are in some sort of fake election where people are led to believe that their votes actually count.* Canvassing works good when are you people doing to remove
Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 9, Issue 3
Please see Theo's post in answer to one of yours. And read my mails. I'm not sexist. Not towards mans, not towards womans as well. I'm NOT a feminist, true, but I'm not paternalist as well, I believe we all should be equals and be threaded that way. You really should read my mail again, I have the feeling that you didn't understand a bit of what I said since you continue to give me ideas I do not subscribe at all. PS.: Would be good if you keep the name of the treads you're answering. Answer to Digest mails break the treads and makes everything a mess. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 1 October 2011 18:47, Maggie rockerre...@gmail.com wrote: @Beria Yes I know that the 9% is women on WP. I referred to that in my post. It doesn't matter if you are also a woman. Women can be sexist against their own gender. It happens a lot. ---Maggie Message: 4 Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 15:26:17 +0100 From: B?ria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 8, Issue 76 To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects Do you actually know that the 9% I reffer is the study who shows that only 9% of wp users are female, right? Because for your answer I don't quite think you did. And I'm here because I'm a woman and a wikipedian. I'm sorry if I don't felt under group pression and thinks exactly like you do. _ *B?ria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde ? dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somat?rio de todo o conhecimento humano. ? isso o que estamos a fazer.* ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
No, I shared a post with my opinion in the subject. Kaldari didn't asked me to explain why Sue is a liar, he asked me - And I quoting - Would you like to elaborate? That can be read in many ways. I read as a ask for read my opinion, but you - apparently - read as a prove that Sue was lying. And as for google, If you google auto-felatio suck my own cock suck my dick or whatever variation you can think of, you still knows exactly what you getting, so that does not annul my point, only proves it. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 1 October 2011 16:24, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Beria - I presume you're asking me? You shared a post replying to Kaldari asking you to explain you think Sue Gardner is a liar. And The only thing I got out of it is that we have a collection of photographs of men sucking their own penises on Commons. I was also testing Google - they say that a large amount of visitors read that page a month, and surely most of them probably don't search for auto-fellatio when looking for that content of men pleasuring themselves. So, I googled sucking my own cock since I presume a lot of men Google that content when trying to figure out how to do so, what it looks like, etc. When I was in high school boys used to joke about being able to do it. This was before Google existed. So I was just using past experiences to see how someone would stumble across the auto-fellatio page without typing auto-fellatio. Other than that, I never figured out why you think Sue Gardner is a liar. I'm laughing that I just re-explained that, heh, but I hope it helps, -Sarah _ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Grants related to women
Laura - and I'm sorry if you did that already - but is not a good idea send that to WMAU mailing list? _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 1 October 2011 23:27, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote: The state I live in in Australia is offering $100,000 worth of grant money to improve the quality of life for local women. Details are available at http://www.dhcs.act.gov.au/women/grants_and_scholarships . The money is for one off programs, with a maximum of $25,000 available. Should members of this list, local chapters and the WMF be looking to apply for these types of grants? Is there any opportunity to apply for grants like this which would help with goals WMF related goals, help in the development of relationships like WMF has with GLAMs, with the idea of increasing female participation or improving female related content on Wikipedia? What sort of activities could be done if this was an area that people thought was valuable and an idea worth exploring? -- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Grants related to women
*Béria, do you think exploring grants like the one linked to is something people involved with this list should be doing? * Yes. I - personally - don't see a problem with that. Their idea is improve the status of ACT women. I do think is a bit limited for us - since they mention the geography region for the actions, but I think we definitely should try it :) *Béria, do you have ideas as to what could be proposed to try to get some of these grants?* I'm a complete dumb when comes to Australia culture, so I might not be the best person to ask to it :) But maybe some GLAM activities for Woman, or some conference (or mini conference) about Wikipedia, maybe an outreach action... Again, I'm not the best one to say you what to do, but if you decide what you want to do and need help you can count with me :) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 1 October 2011 23:47, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: Laura - and I'm sorry if you did that already - but is not a good idea send that to WMAU mailing list? I have already done that, with a version that asked less How can we engage women and should WMF be looking to try to do this sort of work? Should we be looking for grants? with more specific questions. Hence, I didn't include them on the string. Béria, do you think exploring grants like the one linked to is something people involved with this list should be doing? Béria, do you have ideas as to what could be proposed to try to get some of these grants? -- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-September/069078.html _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:37, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: ** Would you like to elaborate? Ryan Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:35 PM, Béria Lima wrote: I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up for even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post. Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to come here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list safe, only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:25, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure there are some people on this mailing list who also disagree as well! We try to provide a safe haven for discussion about sensitive topics. But, if any of us spoke up on Foundation-L we'd be risking getting torn up by often heavily opinionated Foundation-L subscribers, and it gets really tiring :( It is also nice to have a change in opinion - for those who dislike the post, there are also many of that support it. Thanks for bringing up that a different type of conversation is taking place on Foundation-L! I've been following it. -Sarah On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be quite different than yours. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :) Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote: I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this. Really exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good writeup. Thank you, Sue. ~A On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.comwrote: Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me*a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimediahttp://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing listGendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be quite different than yours. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: ** Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :) Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote: I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this. Really exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good writeup. Thank you, Sue. ~A On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me* a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up for even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post. Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to come here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list safe, only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:25, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure there are some people on this mailing list who also disagree as well! We try to provide a safe haven for discussion about sensitive topics. But, if any of us spoke up on Foundation-L we'd be risking getting torn up by often heavily opinionated Foundation-L subscribers, and it gets really tiring :( It is also nice to have a change in opinion - for those who dislike the post, there are also many of that support it. Thanks for bringing up that a different type of conversation is taking place on Foundation-L! I've been following it. -Sarah On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.ptwrote: ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be quite different than yours. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: ** Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :) Kaldari On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote: I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this. Really exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good writeup. Thank you, Sue. ~A On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a courageous one, too. Andreas --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47 http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/ A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here think about. I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me. I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense, good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me* a censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called. I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor, anti-woman... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my Wiki self-esteem torn down.I just feel like giving up. Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this, and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult, logical and respectful. 3 -Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian
Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
Andreas, Again: Stop canvassing your POV!!! This list (and Commons-l) are not for that. That is my last warning _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/5/18 Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com This response here is emblematic of the misogyny and ageism pervading Commons: http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File_talk%3AOn_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpgaction=historysubmitdiff=54489618oldid=54483841 http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File_talk%3AOn_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpgaction=historysubmitdiff=54489618oldid=54483841Coming up with stuff old women like would actually be a good idea, but I don't think the contributor meant it that way. At this deletion request http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Paleis_lange_voorhout.jpg I pointed out that the creator of the manga image placed it on a photograph of the Escher museum, making it appear his image appeared there. This is deceptive, and against Commons image guidelines. The only response to the deletion request so far is a Keep. The request to remove featured status from the Edge of the World manga image, started independently of our discussions by a Russian Wikipedia editor, is heading for a Keep: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Featured_picture_candidates/removal/File:On_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpg Here is the original nomination: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Featured_picture_candidates/File:On_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpg The image failed to achieve featured status in German Wikipedia: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kandidaten_f%C3%BCr_exzellente_Bilder/Archiv2011/1#On_the_edge_.E2.80.93_2._Januar_bis_16._Januar_-_Contra 7 for, 8 against, which based on objective criteria of artistic and educational merit is still kind to the image. I am thinking of writing a letter to the Commons Village Pump to ask the community to take a long hard look at its basic competence. Sue, any ideas? Andreas --- On *Tue, 17/5/11, Sarah Stierch sa...@sarahstierch.com* wrote: From: Sarah Stierch sa...@sarahstierch.com Subject: Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Tuesday, 17 May, 2011, 16:19 Hi dz, Great to hear you'd like to be involved. I've been *really* busy the past few weeks with finishing school, a trip to California, and GLAM related activities (oh and Regional Ambassadorness!) - so I haven't had time to sit down and get my stuff together for the HOW-TO. But, I'd love to add you to our HOW-TO gang if you like. =) Sarah On 5/17/2011 8:17 AM, Deanna Zandt wrote: I'd also be interested in contributing-- the BLP experience of last week was incredibly enlightening, and got me thinking about access... having the right key unlocked a wealth of knowledge and aid. How to make that key more widely available, or second nature/common knowledge? I'm hoping to blog about it soon. In any case, I'd like to come at some of the HOW-TO issues in general from that noob perspective. cheers dz On May 16, 2011, at 9:23 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Sarah Stierch sa...@sarahstierch.comhttp://mc/compose?to=sa...@sarahstierch.com wrote: On 5/16/2011 11:49 AM, Pete Forsyth wrote: Anybody interested in tackling this issue? -Pete I'm working on diving into the HOW-TO this summer for Wiki. I do want to see all of these topics covered - and I'll contribute in anyway I can. Where do we start? ;-) Hi Sarah, I'd be really happy to work on this with you! (And anyone else). My sense is that there's a lot of work to do in identifying the problem -- or rather, evaluating the collection of interrelated issues, and determining where it's best to focus. The things that seem significant to me are: (1) Picture of the Day on Commons often seems to be the source of unnecessary strife (moreso than, say, PotD on English Wikipedia); (2) It appears that there is not a clearly identified set of editorial values around what DOES constitute a worthwhile PotD on Commons; (3) The technical and social processes for setting a PotD are difficult to understand and poorly documented. How about if we collaborate a bit on documenting how things currently work? I think that process will point the way toward recommending a solution. I've set up a page for this project, if you're game! http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Peteforsyth/PotD -Pete ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
I'm only warning a commons user that canvassing is not accepted. And since you need to be warned on wiki, i did that. And btw, you don't recognize any name, but I do (i will not mention here because that would be rude to then) So, again, you will stop that idiot crusade against this picture and we can move on to discuss the original propose of that list, or we will need to change that to the Adm noticeboard in commons? _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/5/18 Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com --- On *Wed, 18/5/11, Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt* wrote: From: Béria Lima beria.l...@wikimedia.pt Subject: Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, 18 May, 2011, 14:19 The community is already discussing this matter Andreas. What you are doing is, since your vote is not going the way you want (the picture, apparentely, will remain as a FP) you are canvassing votes here, so people can go there are vote to delist the image. That, my dear, is pure canvass, and is not allowed in any project. So, again, stop do that. Dear Beria, You would have a leg to stand on if anyone, at all, who had read my posts on this or any other mailing list, had voted in my favour in these community discussions. I am not aware that anyone has. Of the 5 people who have voted to delist, I do not recognise a single name from the mailing lists. And I believe if anyone here had decided to vote, they would be experienced enough, and have enough integrity, to disclose along with their vote that they became aware of the discussion through a mailing list post. Further: If list members had commented, which they have not, and the vote were going against you, which it is not, you would be well within your rights to contest the result, and ask the community to look into any undue effect mailing list discussions may have had on the discussion. However, nothing like this has happened. As it is, you are out of line to threaten me on my Commons user page for participating in discussions on this list. Regards, Andreas ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
In this case, Sarah, change the policy of what should be in Main Page, or change the Sexual policy (in discussion by the way). Create a cruzade against that image would not change anything. And btw, take political, ideological or any other kind of ideas from a 5 words phrase requires much imagination. Is not better ask the person what he meant by that? _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/5/18 Sarah slimvir...@gmail.com On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 07:23, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.netwrote: This includes Commons selecting images for featured status on the basis of comments like I like her big tits, rather than artistic merit, and then featuring them on the main page. You've been informed several times that such remarks are discounted when discussions are evaluated. How do you know the comments were discounted, Fred? And that's not really the point anyway. The comments were made. People felt it was okay to make them. That's the culture we're trying to change. Sarah ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
not that i know Fred. And behaivor will be very difficult to fill in a policy or guideline. but nothing prevent you from start a discussion about. Be bold ;) _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/5/18 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net In this case, Sarah, change the policy of what should be in Main Page, or change the Sexual policy (in discussion by the way). _ *Béria Lima* So where is that discussion? I found Commons:Sexual content and Help:Sexual content and its talk page. But what we're talking about here is not content, but behavior, a sexist remark. Is that being discussed anywhere? Fred ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
*Actually, given that the template was cascade protected by virtue of it being on the main page, only administrators can edit it. You're not an administrator on Commons, but you do have a staff flag. Therefore I'd say that's a staff action.* That said, changed the picture without any discussion, only because some people don't want to see a half-naked anime girl on Main Page (btw: What is the problem with that picture? I'm a girl, and i'm not AT ALL offended for see that in main page) was a act that NO ONE should do without consensus. Not an adm, not an editor, not a staff. And do that by abusing the tools WMF and the communitty gave you only made everything even worse. That said, i restored the original image of the day and would love if you people decide if the picture should stay or not in main page ON COMMONS _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/5/16 Aaron Adrignola aaron.adrign...@gmail.com On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 2:13 AM, Neil Kandalgaonkar ne...@wikimedia.orgwrote: I changed the picture. I'd like to note that I did this not owing to any 'authority' I might have as a WMF employee, just as a regular person associated with Commons. Actually, given that the template was cascade protected by virtue of it being on the main page, only administrators can edit it. You're not an administrator on Commons, but you do have a staff flag. Therefore I'd say that's a staff action. ___ Commons-l mailing list common...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Proposal: Forking gendergap: Main list for women and transgender, sublist for male supporters
I completely agree with Fluffy. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/3/16 ChaoticFluffy chaoticflu...@gmail.com I also don't have a problem with Erik's POV in particular. My views on this topic are basically that: 1) Yes, some of the men here are being excessively strident and dismissive in a lot of cases 2) Yes, I feel less inclined to speak my mind because I know that I'm going to have to defend every point I make from three or four men telling me how it's not a problem 3) No, I don't think the solution is to fork the list. We have to function with men onwiki, there's no reason to kick them off here 4) I'm not sure how moderation could be used effectively other than to have moderators speak to people who are overly dismissive. Having a moderator approve all posts seems excessive, but I would support, say, an X-strikes-you're-out policy regarding belittling or dismissive behavior 5) I don't think it's constructive to require the men to justify themselves to us or the list. If they're here, they're here because they want to work on the gender gap. That said... 6) I don't know how many more ways we women can tell you guys that some of you are coming across as obnoxious. I'm sorry if that offends you (mostly because I'm a woman and I've been trained to be sorry if I offend people, hey look how that works), but YOU ARE. Please accept that this is happening, it's making the women unhappy, and we'd like you to think before you speak from now on. 7) Please do NOT immediately protest that you feel like the mean feminist women are trying to oppress you by telling you all this. Feel like we're snap-judging your statements? Feel like we're treating you as your gender rather than yourself, and unfairly so? Feel like we're just not listening to the points you're trying to make? WELCOME TO OUR WORLD AS WOMEN. -Fluff On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Nepenthe topazbutter...@gmail.comwrote: Unless Erik has alter egos posting here, I didn't have any problems with *his* comments. I find the idea that men and women are automatically equal participants on a list like this a bit naive, but it's not offensive. On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 4:04 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote: [...] Erik's comment made me feel decidedly uncomfortable. On a list dedicated to helping increase the female participation rates on Wikipedia, Erik basically said: WOMENS! THEY IS DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ME! If I went to some women's communities and I posted Erik's comment (and comments of other male posters) with the context of these comments being said on a list dedicated to increasing female participation rates... ... well, you'd potentially have a mob involved. This effort? It would appear extremely sexist. (The large male involvement, the defensiveness of men regaridng their participation contribute to this image.) That these sexist comments are coming from the Deputy Director of WMF? It makes this worst because it is sexism coming from inside the institution. If you and Erik want to belong, that's great. It should be purely in support roles: Women say they are doing this project and need help. WMF officials step in and say we can help this way. If this was the general mode of male participation on the list, of specific support offered in response to specific requests, male involvement would be less problematic. I would like to hear more from other women here on your impressions of and responses to Erik's comments. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
