Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 Ralph On Jun 10, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Sam Ruby wrote: *** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE] As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project. At the end of this mail, I've put a copy of the current proposal. Here is a link to the document in the wiki: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal?action=recallrev=207 As the proposal discussion threads are numerous, I encourage people to scan and review the archives for this month: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/browser Please cast your votes: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation This vote will close 72 hours from now. - Sam Ruby = OpenOffice.org - An open productivity environment = == Abstract == !OpenOffice.org is comprised of six personal productivity applications: a word processor (and its web-authoring component), spreadsheet, presentation graphics, drawing, equation editor, and database. !OpenOffice.org is released on Windows, Solaris, Linux and Macintosh operation systems, with more [[http://porting.openoffice.org/|communities]] joining, including a mature [[http://porting.openoffice.org/freebsd/|FreeBSD port]]. !OpenOffice.org is localized, supporting over 110 languages worldwide. == Proposal == Apache !OpenOffice.org will continue the mission pursued by the !OpenOffice.org project while under the sponsorship of Sun and Oracle, namely: To create, as a community, the leading international office suite that will run on all major platforms and provide access to all functionality and data through open-component based APIs and an XML-based file format. In addition to to building the !OpenOffice.org product, as an end-user facing product with many existing individual and corporate users, this project will also be active in supporting end-users via tutorials, user forums, document template repositories, etc. The project will also work to further enable !OpenOffice.org to be used as a programmable module in document automation scenarios. == Background == !OpenOffice.org was launched as an open source project by Sun Microsystems in June 2000. !OpenOffice.org was originally developed under the name of StarOffice by Star Division, a German company, which was acquired by Sun Microsystems in 1999. Sun released this as open source in 2000. !OpenOffice.org is the leading alternative to MS-Office available. Its most recent major version, the 3.x series saw over [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|100 million downloads]] in its first year. The [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|most recent estimates]] suggest a market share on the order of 8-15%. The !OpenOffice source is written in C++ and delivers language-neutral and scriptable functionality. This source technology introduces the next-stage architecture, allowing use of the suite elements as separate applications or as embedded components in other applications. Numerous other features are also present including XML-based file formats based on the vendor-neutral !OpenDocument Format (ODF) standard from OASIS and other resources. == Rationale == !OpenOffice.org core development would continue at Apache following the contribution by Oracle, in accordance with Apache bylaws and its usual open development processes. Both Oracle and ASF agree that the !OpenOffice.org development community, previously fragmented, would re-unite under ASF to ensure a stable and long term future for OpenOffice.org. ASF would enable corporate, non-profit, and volunteer stakeholders to contribute code in a collaborative fashion. Supporting tooling projects will accompany the !OpenOffice.org contribution, providing APIs for extending and customizing !OpenOffice.org. Both !OpenOffice.org and the related tooling projects support the OASIS Open Document Format, and will attract an ecosystem of developers, ISVs and Systems Integrators. ODF ensures the users of !OpenOffice.org and related solutions will own their document data, and be free to choose the application or solution that best meets their requirements. The !OpenOffice.org implementation will serve as a reference implementation of the Open Document Format standard. = Current Status = == Meritocracy == We understand the intention and value of meritocracy at Apache. We are particularly gratified to learn, during the discussion on this proposal, that there is a strong role for non-coders to participate in this meritocracy and as they demonstrate their sustained commitment and merit, to take on
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Ketih, I think Italo is incorrect saying voting no would be a defeat for free software. It is an honest mistake. People don't know what else could happen, because alternatives are not being discussed. They have been discussed. Even at this list. We have discussed to say no to OOo at the ASF. We have discussed collaborations. There were even some more exotic ideas on this proposal. I have noticed many think no other plans are possible. This forces people to vote yes. Sorry, but how can you know? Did you speak with everybody? DId you get private messages from some folks asking you for help? Are you a psychologist and know about group dynamics? I think LibreOffice people are quiet for various reasons: 1. Voting yes is seen as being helpful and friendly, but voting no is seen as unhelpful. There are no voters, even long respected ASF members. Their reasons are very helpful and I think over them. Please don't tell me how I should see no/yes votes. 2. It isn't clear if voting helps. They've made their points clear. It has been explained already how voting at the ASF is working. It has also been said that voting -1 with good reasons are discussed, if necessary. When arguments have been discussed in the past which do not cause people to vote -1, then not all people do share this concerns. 3. These people are thrown into this chaos only months into their existence. Should they be unfriendly to a bad idea? This is not something that many have had to deal with frequently before. None were likely a part of the Blu-Ray / HD-DVD fiasco, etc. Come on. Are you serious? We are speaking of adults. 4. It is rude not to retract a plan that many have objections to. Should they compound it with their own rudeness? It is how democracy usually works. You have X pro, Y contra, afterwards you have a decision. Usually some complain about it afterwards. 5. With all the people related to Sun / Oracle or IBM, some think the fix is in. Maybe they are right, maybe not. Were is the argument? 6. Some think their official position means they should be quiet / diplomatic. How can you know? You often speak as representation of the LO/copyleft folks. Have you been asked to represent a group? I doubt. If no, then please stop speaking for other people or organizations until you have been asked to do so. You can share your own opinion. But please stop with saying many, some, all whatever. You simply don't know, you guess. And to be honest, I cannot agree with your guesses. They are just tiring and time wasting. If you restart such a philosphical debatte, please come up with facts. The mistake is there could be a silent majority of objectors. Yes there could. A worm live in the apple. There is a silent majority against car driving. This does not lead to anywhere. The TDF community is big already. It is cheapest to vote no now. Anyway, I have my own plans so I wish you success in your good ones. Good luck in the future. Cheers, Christian Kind regards, -Keith - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- http://www.grobmeier.de - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation (binding). -- Regards, Cordialement, Emmanuel Lécharny www.iktek.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Hi, I am wearing my OOo-hat here, and this is my vote: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [X ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation I have contributed to OpenOffice.org for several years and I doubt that the project will find the needed resources at Apache. Bye Volker - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[DISCUSSION] (was: RE: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation)
-Original Message- From: Volker Merschmann [mailto:merschm...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 11 June 2011 6:49 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation Hi, I am wearing my OOo-hat here, and this is my vote: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [X ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation I have contributed to OpenOffice.org for several years and I doubt that the project will find the needed resources at Apache. Hi Volker, Please tell us what sort of 'resources' are you talking about, examples please, are these infrastructure resources? If so, as an infra person here at the ASF I would like some insight into what people think we dont have or cannot handle. I have been researching myself online and with other folks including OOo infra admins and so far I havent found anything to make me think that this cannot be done at an infrastructure level. Gav... Bye Volker - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] (was: RE: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation)
Hi Gavin, Op 11-6-2011 10:59, Gavin McDonald schreef: -Original Message- From: Volker Merschmann [mailto:merschm...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 11 June 2011 6:49 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation Hi, I am wearing my OOo-hat here, and this is my vote: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [X ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation I have contributed to OpenOffice.org for several years and I doubt that the project will find the needed resources at Apache. Hi Volker, Please tell us what sort of 'resources' are you talking about, examples please, are these infrastructure resources? If so, as an infra person here at the ASF I would like some insight into what people think we don’t have or cannot handle. I'm not answering for Volker, but personally I see a big problem in the fact that the installation packages of OpenOffice.org as we know it today contain numerous external (mostly LGPL) libraries and binaries that are not ASL licensed and not covered under the Oracle grant. As I understand, it is strict ASF policy not to distribute binaries containing non-ASL source, and it will be far from trivial to replace those dependencies. Therefore I expect that, even if OpenOffice.org can be built and distributed under these restrictions, it will be severely crippled for a long time to come. I foresee that many (prospective) OpenOffice.org-users will lose interest and that we won't be able to regain the momentum. -- Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer. | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote: As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project. +1 from me (binding). cheers, Leo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Hi, Am 11.06.2011 06:17, schrieb Keith Curtis: I think LibreOffice people are quiet for various reasons: Everyone here votes on his own behalf, for his own reasons and at the time he feels to be the right time. There is currently no need to vote on anybody's behalf (really - nobody here on this list in the position to vote on my behalf, no matter if I would cast the same vote or not). And there is also no need to elaborate other people's reasons. We had lots of discussions and the election campain is over. Please let people vote and give reasons for their very own vote. André PS.: you may have noticed that there already are votes from accepted TDF members. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote: Ketih, I think Italo is incorrect saying voting no would be a defeat for free software. It is an honest mistake. People don't know what else could happen, because alternatives are not being discussed. They have been discussed. Even at this list. We have discussed to say no to OOo at the ASF. We have discussed collaborations. There were even some more exotic ideas on this proposal. The part about the ASF undertaking only a reference implementation for the ODF format was not discussed. This would probably make the Free Software Foundation (FSF) happy. The position of the FSF at http://www.fsf.org/news/openoffice-apache-libreoffice I have noticed many think no other plans are possible. This forces people to vote yes. Sorry, but how can you know? Did you speak with everybody? DId you get private messages from some folks asking you for help? Are you a psychologist and know about group dynamics? Now that you mention it; the voting started at time (7.02pm local time). Benson Margulies voted at 7.03pm. You voted at 7.05pm. Is the voting start time pre-announced? I think LibreOffice people are quiet for various reasons: 1. Voting yes is seen as being helpful and friendly, but voting no is seen as unhelpful. ... 3. These people are thrown into this chaos only months into their existence. Should they be unfriendly to a bad idea? This is not something that many have had to deal with frequently before. None were likely a part of the Blu-Ray / HD-DVD fiasco, etc. Come on. Are you serious? We are speaking of adults. You come off as patronizing. 4. It is rude not to retract a plan that many have objections to. Should they compound it with their own rudeness? It is how democracy usually works. You have X pro, Y contra, afterwards you have a decision. Usually some complain about it afterwards. The case here is that the proposed Apache OpenOffice.org plans to attract the greater OOo community, and this community is largely unaware of the voting that takes place in this incubator mailing list. I only found out I could vote from replies in the actual voting. ... The mistake is there could be a silent majority of objectors. Yes there could. A worm live in the apple. There is a silent majority against car driving. This does not lead to anywhere. Unlike other Apache projects, AOOo has the aspirations for a wide community project. Considering that any person who is part of the OOo/LO community is affected, I would expect a call to the community that explains what's going on and invite them to vote. Simos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+0 (non-binding) I would likely have voted +1 if there were no existing Open Source community behind LibreOffice. The alleged(!) necessity to remove/replace LGPL libraries not covered by the Oracle grant will not result in an improved free office suite but only in delays and further incompatibilities with LibreOffice. Cheers, Andreas --- [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos) On 11 Jun 2011, at 11:23, Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com wrote: The part about the ASF undertaking only a reference implementation for the ODF format was not discussed. Yes it was. In fact it was the suggestion that OO.o should be refactored so that components could be reused elsewhere that encouraged me to sign up as a mentor. Both TDF and proposers saw this as a potential area for collaboration. There is certainly no consensus on whether this is viable and the original proposers do not want to limit the scope of the project to just this aspect. However, there is a desire from some initial committees and some TDF representatives to explore this. As a mentor I aim to see if this refactoring, with the collaboration opportunities it presents, can be realised. Ross - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 6:23 AM, Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com wrote: Now that you mention it; the voting started at time (7.02pm local time). Benson Margulies voted at 7.03pm. You voted at 7.05pm. Is the voting start time pre-announced? The voting time was pre-announced on this very list: http://s.apache.org/gB - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
I think Italo is incorrect saying voting no would be a defeat for free software. It is an honest mistake. People don't know what else could happen, because alternatives are not being discussed. They have been discussed. Even at this list. We have discussed to say no to OOo at the ASF. We have discussed collaborations. There were even some more exotic ideas on this proposal. The part about the ASF undertaking only a reference implementation for the ODF format was not discussed. This would probably make the Free Software Foundation (FSF) happy. Ross answered that already. The position of the FSF at http://www.fsf.org/news/openoffice-apache-libreoffice Thanks, I know that link and cannot agree to everything written there. Sorry, but how can you know? Did you speak with everybody? DId you get private messages from some folks asking you for help? Are you a psychologist and know about group dynamics? Now that you mention it; the voting started at time (7.02pm local time). Benson Margulies voted at 7.03pm. You voted at 7.05pm. Is the voting start time pre-announced? The vote was pre announced by Sam on thursday. It was me who suggested to vote on Friday i think on monday. The reason I could vote so quickly is, I am in the office today. Is a quick reaction time a problem? What have I mentioned which leads to your reaction? 3. These people are thrown into this chaos only months into their existence. Should they be unfriendly to a bad idea? This is not something that many have had to deal with frequently before. None were likely a part of the Blu-Ray / HD-DVD fiasco, etc. Come on. Are you serious? We are speaking of adults. You come off as patronizing. My dictionary did not help me to identify exactly what you wanted to express here and my english is not good enough (as you probably have noticed already). But I strongly believe that everybody has a voice to raise. If they don't like an idea, they can tell it. What is the argument of #3? Yes, probably its chaos, but that is life. 4. It is rude not to retract a plan that many have objections to. Should they compound it with their own rudeness? It is how democracy usually works. You have X pro, Y contra, afterwards you have a decision. Usually some complain about it afterwards. The case here is that the proposed Apache OpenOffice.org plans to attract the greater OOo community, and this community is largely unaware of the voting that takes place in this incubator mailing list. I only found out I could vote from replies in the actual voting. Actually you can express your opinion (non binding). The decision is being made by the PMC (binding). Here is the text: http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles A bit below is noted how voting works. I expect people, who want to contribute to the ASF to read this document. You are right, is not mentioned explicit that you can cast a vote yourself. You could have guessed so, when reading the paragraph around Developer. But the vote is open for 72h. Those who are interested and look at the votes, can still vote yes or no. There was enough time to ask about the process at the incubator mailinglist. There were questions, and all were answered. The mistake is there could be a silent majority of objectors. Yes there could. A worm live in the apple. There is a silent majority against car driving. This does not lead to anywhere. Unlike other Apache projects, AOOo has the aspirations for a wide community project. Considering that any person who is part of the OOo/LO community is affected, I would expect a call to the community that explains what's going on and invite them to vote. As far as I know there Jim tried to involve all related parties into the discussion. A call to the community to participate the discussion has happened to my knowledge. That said I think every interested person has meanwhile subscribed to this list and could express his opinion, if he wants. A vote from somebody who didn't read the discussions is not really reasonable. Really, its easy to complain afterwards. This event has gone through the press. Thousands of blogposts have been published. Hundreds of e-mails were written. What else can one do? Simos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- http://www.grobmeier.de - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On Jun 11, 2011, at 6:23 AM, Simos Xenitellis wrote: On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Christian Grobmeier The part about the ASF undertaking only a reference implementation for the ODF format was not discussed. This would probably make the Free Software Foundation (FSF) happy. The position of the FSF at http://www.fsf.org/news/openoffice-apache-libreoffice Yes, it was discussed. The ASF does not exist to make the FSF happy. The FSF has a nice long history of saying what they would be happy with and then backtracking when people do it. Unlike other Apache projects, AOOo has the aspirations for a wide community project. Yes, of course. All other Apache projects are small, hardly known or used community projects... :-P - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
-1 (non-binding) Within the discussion several reasons that might support a -1 vote were named, many have been addressed or may be addresed by the podling. I still feel obligated to vote -1 because (even if the podling advances to a Apache TLP) this will be the end of OpenOffice.org as it is seen within the market. Actually OpenOffice.org is an application with a user base of 50Mio to 100Mio users. And these users have their hands on the software day by day - so this is really different from zlib, which hardly any of it's users would know by name. Many administrations and companies have choosen OpenOffice.org as their office suite (we are speaking of installation from 10 up to 50k and more seats). There is a market around OpenOffice.org (books, support offerings, trainings, software integrations with mid-range ERP systems, even SAP is aware of the fact that OOo exists and had to deliver some ways of integration). All this market is about *OpenOffice.org* it is *not* about derivates. Although Rob tried to give the impression that there are oh so many OOo derivates, the reality is, that the Office marked is ~89% MSO, 10% OOo and 1% for all the others. Even the better known derivates of OOo (StarOffice and Symphony) are far behind the visibility of the OpenOffice.org brand. Rob did also an interesting analysis, that there is no need to come up quite fast with a new version of OOo, because there has been almost a year between the previous versions. While the fact is true, my resumee is different. During the last two years, we already saw the OOo marked in an uncertain situation - planned versions had been delayed for several reasons, nobody was able to answer, what the future would bring. Users and adopters became anxious. OpenOffice.org 3.4 was scheduled for May/June 2011 - yet another delay will not help the marked to prosper. Instead the OOo marked will go from stagnation to shrink. Even if the podling will be able to produce a new version quite soon, it will be very different from the software we currently know as OpenOffice.org (at least from what I understand to be Apache's guidelines for software distribution). Integration to third party components needs to be rewritten or dropped - even simple things like preinstalled dictionaries (sounds really a no-brainer to a developer) are crucial for the marked that the current OOo addresses. So to me, there is an extremely high risk that the Apache project will not fullfill the expectations of the current OOo user base. Although fully in line with the Apache guidelines and philosophy, it might fail, because 99.99% of the users are not interested in policy and guidelines - they just are interested in what they get (and if it is not Coke it is no Cola). I hope, this will not reflect to Apache's reputation after all. All that said, I perfectly know that the OOo project cannot continue like it did the last ten years, so something needs to change. And although I am opposed to the project here at Apache I owe respect to anyone who is going to drive this and will be around to give input if needed. regards, André PS.: As I did not yet send an introduction to the list, some information - Working with Office Suites since 1988 - Joined the OOo project in 2002, starting with user support and documentations - Co-Lead at the Germanophone project (having a great time with Manfred and felt very sad when he left) - later Project lead for Quality assurance (quite active in bug handling and one of the first non-Sunnies to work on the scripts for test automation) - elected Member of the OOo Community Council for several years (e.g. reworking the CC's bylaws for it's current version) - coordinating the German Localization efforts (and doing about 50% of the UI translations since OOo 3.0) - representing OOo and giving talks at at least 4 public events per year (like CEBit, LinuxTag, LinuxDay, OOoCon) - founding member, member of the initial board and now member of the supervisory board of FrODev (former OOoDeV) - founding member of The Document Foundation, member of the interim Steering Committe, member of the Membership Committee Although my premise when entering OOo was that I will do anything but coding (as I do enough coding during my day job) there are ~20 Lines of code in OOo written by me :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation -1. I think by accepting this ASF is risking quite a lot of flak and reputational damage. We have too much baggage from IBM/Oracle in recent past, to be played like this. Not seeing the deal being struck between this and Harmony, or ignoring it, is a great injustice to those individuals that put in their sweat in Harmony. I sincerely think that this incubation will fail. I think IBM will spend most 'innovation' in their downstream project and quite quickly we will have a disrupted OpenOffice.org landscape, without any shippable binaries for many platforms. FTR, I hope that TDF will reconsider the stance on the Apache License and joins this effort as an equal partner, in which case I applaud those who made this happen and I would stand corrected. Prove me wrong!! Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk I work here; http://tinyurl.com/24svnvk I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Yes, and I also like to correct my previous statement: I actually meant that ALL votes are welcome (not only +1)! LieGrue, strub --- On Fri, 6/10/11, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.name wrote: From: Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.name Subject: Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation To: general@incubator.apache.org Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 10:43 PM Mark Struberg wrote on Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 23:09:21 +0100: PS: I fear there is a misunderstanding regarding binding vs non-binding votes. Binding votes can only be cast by a IncubatorPMC member [1]. But of course, also non-binding +1 are welcome ;) I'm going to be less roundabout: Roman's vote is not binding since he's not on the IPMC. --- On Fri, 6/10/11, Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar wrote: From: Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar Subject: Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation To: general@incubator.apache.org Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 6:13 PM El 10/06/11 14:17, Roman H. Gelbort escribió: +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation and binding -- --- Prof. Román H. Gelbort No busquemos aplicaciones que reemplacen aplicaciones, sino aplicaciones que resuelvan problemas específicos... http://www.piensalibre.com.ar --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation (binding) N - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
This is such a difficult call. Will OOo at Apache take off sufficiently to contribute something of value to the ecosystem, or will it fail, taking goodwill with it? Will it create division in the community, or does that division already exist, and creating the podling will simply make the fact of a division clearer, and therefore easier to work with? Without the ability to see the future, I cannot fully answer these questions. However, reading all of the threads on the topic, I come to the conclusion that it is worth a try. Therefore, I vote +1, and wish all participants well and hope we can make something excellent from this opportunity, something that benefits all within the wider OOo community. So +1 to this proposal. Upayavira On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:02 -0400, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote: *** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE] As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project. At the end of this mail, I've put a copy of the current proposal. Here is a link to the document in the wiki: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal?action=recallrev=207 As the proposal discussion threads are numerous, I encourage people to scan and review the archives for this month: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/browser Please cast your votes: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation This vote will close 72 hours from now. - Sam Ruby = OpenOffice.org - An open productivity environment = == Abstract == !OpenOffice.org is comprised of six personal productivity applications: a word processor (and its web-authoring component), spreadsheet, presentation graphics, drawing, equation editor, and database. !OpenOffice.org is released on Windows, Solaris, Linux and Macintosh operation systems, with more [[http://porting.openoffice.org/|communities]] joining, including a mature [[http://porting.openoffice.org/freebsd/|FreeBSD port]]. !OpenOffice.org is localized, supporting over 110 languages worldwide. == Proposal == Apache !OpenOffice.org will continue the mission pursued by the !OpenOffice.org project while under the sponsorship of Sun and Oracle, namely: To create, as a community, the leading international office suite that will run on all major platforms and provide access to all functionality and data through open-component based APIs and an XML-based file format. In addition to to building the !OpenOffice.org product, as an end-user facing product with many existing individual and corporate users, this project will also be active in supporting end-users via tutorials, user forums, document template repositories, etc. The project will also work to further enable !OpenOffice.org to be used as a programmable module in document automation scenarios. == Background == !OpenOffice.org was launched as an open source project by Sun Microsystems in June 2000. !OpenOffice.org was originally developed under the name of StarOffice by Star Division, a German company, which was acquired by Sun Microsystems in 1999. Sun released this as open source in 2000. !OpenOffice.org is the leading alternative to MS-Office available. Its most recent major version, the 3.x series saw over [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|100 million downloads]] in its first year. The [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|most recent estimates]] suggest a market share on the order of 8-15%. The !OpenOffice source is written in C++ and delivers language-neutral and scriptable functionality. This source technology introduces the next-stage architecture, allowing use of the suite elements as separate applications or as embedded components in other applications. Numerous other features are also present including XML-based file formats based on the vendor-neutral !OpenDocument Format (ODF) standard from OASIS and other resources. == Rationale == !OpenOffice.org core development would continue at Apache following the contribution by Oracle, in accordance with Apache bylaws and its usual open development processes. Both Oracle and ASF agree that the !OpenOffice.org development community, previously fragmented, would re-unite under ASF to ensure a stable and long term future for OpenOffice.org. ASF would enable corporate, non-profit, and volunteer stakeholders to contribute code in a collaborative fashion. Supporting tooling projects will accompany the !OpenOffice.org contribution, providing APIs for extending and customizing !OpenOffice.org. Both !OpenOffice.org and the related tooling
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote: Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos) On 11 Jun 2011, at 11:23, Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com wrote: The part about the ASF undertaking only a reference implementation for the ODF format was not discussed. Yes it was. In fact it was the suggestion that OO.o should be refactored so that components could be reused elsewhere that encouraged me to sign up as a mentor. Both TDF and proposers saw this as a potential area for collaboration. There is certainly no consensus on whether this is viable and the original proposers do not want to limit the scope of the project to just this aspect. However, there is a desire from some initial committees and some TDF representatives to explore this. As a mentor I aim to see if this refactoring, with the collaboration opportunities it presents, can be realised. Likewise, it was this prospect (as opposed to pointless competition with LibreOffice) that made me vote +1 as well. S.
Request to join as initial committer
Hi! Sorry for this just-under-the-wire request, but I would love to be added to the list of initial committers if it is not too late. Most of my strengths are around accessibility: Volunteer Job: * Orca project lead (1+ years) and developer (5+ years) * GNOME Accessibility Project assistant to the lead (1+ year) Day Job: * Assistive Technology Specialist, Carroll Center for the Blind (15 years) Thank you in advance for your consideration! Take care. Joanmarie Diggs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
On 10 June 2011 22:28, Joanmarie Diggs joan...@gnome.org wrote: Sorry for this just-under-the-wire request, but I would love to be added to the list of initial committers if it is not too late. Most of my strengths are around accessibility: Volunteer Job: * Orca project lead (1+ years) and developer (5+ years) * GNOME Accessibility Project assistant to the lead (1+ year) Day Job: * Assistive Technology Specialist, Carroll Center for the Blind (15 years) Hey Joanie It's good to see you hear, I've only just joined. Are you referring to the Open Office proposal? This is a general list If so, unlike most Apache incubator projects, where you earn committership, for the Open Office proposal you can sign up yourself by just adding to the wiki page [1]. At least that is what I did. I'd happily nominate you if my vote would count for anything as It would be excellent to have you on board. We need a wide representation of those interested in OOo a11y. You might also like to get a ICLA off as well [2] 1: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal 2: http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt Steve Lee Full Measure - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Steve Lee st...@fullmeasure.co.uk wrote: On 10 June 2011 22:28, Joanmarie Diggs joan...@gnome.org wrote: Sorry for this just-under-the-wire request, but I would love to be added to the list of initial committers if it is not too late. Most of my strengths are around accessibility: Volunteer Job: * Orca project lead (1+ years) and developer (5+ years) * GNOME Accessibility Project assistant to the lead (1+ year) Day Job: * Assistive Technology Specialist, Carroll Center for the Blind (15 years) Hey Joanie It's good to see you hear, I've only just joined. Are you referring to the Open Office proposal? This is a general list If so, unlike most Apache incubator projects, where you earn committership, for the Open Office proposal you can sign up yourself by just adding to the wiki page [1]. At least that is what I did. I'd happily nominate you if my vote would count for anything as It would be excellent to have you on board. We need a wide representation of those interested in OOo a11y. The vote has already started, and was based on revision 207 of the wiki page: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal?action=recallrev=207 Assuming the proposal gets approved, I'll make sure that the mentors make adding in the people that have volunteered after the vote started to be a top priority for the new PPMC. You might also like to get a ICLA off as well [2] 1: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal 2: http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt Yes, please do. And if you care to do so, cast a vote on the proposal itself. Steve Lee Full Measure - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
On 11 June 2011 15:37, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote: The vote has already started, and was based on revision 207 of the wiki page: My apologies. I only just joined so I'll search the archives to find out more. Steve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 05:28:59PM -0400, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: Sorry for this just-under-the-wire request, but I would love to be added to the list of initial committers if it is not too late. Most of my strengths are around accessibility: Volunteer Job: * Orca project lead (1+ years) and developer (5+ years) * GNOME Accessibility Project assistant to the lead (1+ year) Day Job: * Assistive Technology Specialist, Carroll Center for the Blind (15 years) Welcome! Technically, a VOTE is being taken by the Incubator PMC on a proposal which includes a fixed list of initial committers. The proposal was worked up on the wiki, but it was frozen when it was included in the email which kicked off the VOTE thread. I believe that changing any aspect of that proposal now and would require cancelling the vote and starting a new one. However, one of the primary tasks of incubation is to expand the community, by recognizing merit in those who are contributing, nominating them as committers, conducting a vote, and then extending an invitation. With you stepping forward, it sounds as though one of the first activities of this podling may be to figure out how to accept new people. :) Note that the period of quasi-open-enrollment that happens while a proposal to enter incubation is under discussion is a special case (and is occasionally controversial). It will be up to the podling to determine how to deal with additional volunteers who materialize during this time of limbo, and to determine what thresholds of contribution spawn committership offers in the future. Cheers, Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
-1 (non-binding) As stated elsewhere [1], this incubator, combined with the disruption and delay it's causing to the OOo ecosystem, does not add enough unique value to what we already have a TDF to justify the effort. (I'm referring to the existing proposal's mission statement [2], not to the (quite sensible) visions invididuals have presented here) [1] http://blog.thebehrens.net/2011/06/11/licensing-questions-and-the-ecosystem/ [2] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal#Proposal Cheers, -- Thorsten pgpCzgEcfSDnv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (non-binding) -- Steve Lee Full Measure - open source accessibility - http://fullmeasure.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
Joanmarie Diggs joanmarie.di...@gmail.com wrote on 06/10/2011 05:28:59 PM: From: Joanmarie Diggs joan...@gnome.org To: general@incubator.apache.org Date: 06/11/2011 10:04 AM Subject: Request to join as initial committer Sent by: Joanmarie Diggs joanmarie.di...@gmail.com Hi! Sorry for this just-under-the-wire request, but I would love to be added to the list of initial committers if it is not too late. Most of my strengths are around accessibility: Volunteer Job: * Orca project lead (1+ years) and developer (5+ years) * GNOME Accessibility Project assistant to the lead (1+ year) Day Job: * Assistive Technology Specialist, Carroll Center for the Blind (15 years) Very cool. While IBM contributed its accessibility code to Oracle last year, Oracle was unable to fully integrate. We should finish that work if the proposal passes to podling. It looks like this will be an effort you would want to consider working on. This is the code that implements the IA2 APIs that IBM donated to Linux Foundation in December 2008.[1] Thank you in advance for your consideration! Take care. Joanmarie Diggs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org [1] http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/accessibility/iaccessible2 /don harbison
Re: Request to join as initial committer
On 11 June 2011 17:30, donald_harbi...@us.ibm.com wrote: Joanmarie Diggs joanmarie.di...@gmail.com wrote on 06/10/2011 05:28:59 PM: Sorry for this just-under-the-wire request, but I would love to be added to the list of initial committers if it is not too late. Most of my strengths are around accessibility: Volunteer Job: * Orca project lead (1+ years) and developer (5+ years) * GNOME Accessibility Project assistant to the lead (1+ year) Day Job: * Assistive Technology Specialist, Carroll Center for the Blind (15 years) Very cool. While IBM contributed its accessibility code to Oracle last year, Oracle was unable to fully integrate. We should finish that work if the proposal passes to podling. It looks like this will be an effort you would want to consider working on. This is the code that implements the IA2 APIs that IBM donated to Linux Foundation in December 2008.[1] I'm *very* keen to see this happen. A point of information: IA2 is actually for Windows platforms, even though is maintained by the Linux Foundation (note IA2 is deliberately very similar to AT/SPI on Linux). Orca, which Joanie leads, is GNOME on Linux, so we still need to work on community development for IA2, as things stand. -- Steve Lee Full Measure - open source accessibility - http://fullmeasure.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Hi Sam, On Jun 10, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Sam Ruby wrote: [X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation (binding). Good luck! Cheers, Chris ++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation (non-binding) At first I thought beeing on the committers list would imply my approval of the proposal. But now I'd like to give the reasons for my vote as so many others did: (All just my point of view as an suburban inhabitant of the old OOo community) TDF was and is important for the OpenOffice.org community and did and does a great job. TDF came into existence just as many people of the OOo community saw the project and the community in danger - to give a new home to OOo. But still other parts of the community remain some kind of homeless. So I think before the different parts of the community could collaborate, approximate or even reunite, the homeless need a new home and I do not see another place now - especially no better one - as the ASF. Looking at the discussion of the last days I see many valid arguments on both sides and a level of approximation I would not have considered possible before. So please let that evolve and don't cancel it before it has begun. I would find it sad to see only parts of the experience represented on the committers list ( not my little bit ;-) ) beeing lost for OOo. My understanding of the Apache Incubator is that it is a place to see in reality if all the might-be and if is valid or not (might be wrong with it?). So I would be curious to see the things coming. Thank you for your time Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (non-binding) /-/-/-/-/-/ Scott Wilson - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request: Can proposed committers introduce themselves?
Hi, My name is Peter Korn, and I've been working on accessibility for the last 20 years. I started that career developing assistive technologies for folks with vision impairments, and then moved to Sun where I worked on platform accessibility frameworks. Around 10 years ago I helped start the StarOffice/OpenOffice.org accessibility effort (and had the pleasure of meeting Malte, with whom I've worked for a good many years). That's also the time I kicked off the GNOME accessibility effort. I've moved away from writing code on a regular basis, spending more time on accessibility policy, design, management, and related matters. I am co-chair of the now-mostly-quiet OASIS ODF accessibility subcommittee, and helped with the analysis and fixes to the ODF spec. I am Technical Manager of the AEGIS project [http://www.aegis-project.eu], where we are developing a number of extensions to OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice for accessibility, including the successful odt2daisy and odt2braille extensions (for creating digital talking books for folks with print impairments and embossing braille documents respectively), and a hopefully-soon-to-be-published extension to support language learning and writing via the concept-coding framework for folks with cognitive impairments - among other things. I doubt I'll contribute much direct code to the effort, but I look forward to helping with design decisions that affect accessibility. Regards, Peter -- Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal Phone: +1 650 5069522 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065 Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment
Re: Request to join as initial committer
On 11.06.2011 18:43, Steve Lee wrote: Very cool. While IBM contributed its accessibility code to Oracle last year, Oracle was unable to fully integrate. We should finish that work if the proposal passes to podling. It looks like this will be an effort you would want to consider working on. This is the code that implements the IA2 APIs that IBM donated to Linux Foundation in December 2008.[1] I'm *very* keen to see this happen. Actually the status with IA2 in OOo is quite good - but not in public CWSes yet - I am quite sure it will find it's way to Apache OOo. Malte. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
Hi Joani, nice to see you joining this project! :) Malte. On 10.06.2011 23:28, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: Hi! Sorry for this just-under-the-wire request, but I would love to be added to the list of initial committers if it is not too late. Most of my strengths are around accessibility: Volunteer Job: * Orca project lead (1+ years) and developer (5+ years) * GNOME Accessibility Project assistant to the lead (1+ year) Day Job: * Assistive Technology Specialist, Carroll Center for the Blind (15 years) Thank you in advance for your consideration! Take care. Joanmarie Diggs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (non-binding) Malte. On 10.06.2011 19:05, Sam Ruby wrote: [X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request: Can proposed committers introduce themselves?
Hi Peter, The vote is currently open and thus the proposal has been fixed until the end of the vote. Once the vote has completed and the podling PMC has been formed I will ensure your request is processed. Thanks for your interest. Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos) On 11 Jun 2011, at 18:49, Peter Korn peter.k...@oracle.com wrote: Hi, My name is Peter Korn, and I've been working on accessibility for the last 20 years. I started that career developing assistive technologies for folks with vision impairments, and then moved to Sun where I worked on platform accessibility frameworks. Around 10 years ago I helped start the StarOffice/OpenOffice.org accessibility effort (and had the pleasure of meeting Malte, with whom I've worked for a good many years). That's also the time I kicked off the GNOME accessibility effort. I've moved away from writing code on a regular basis, spending more time on accessibility policy, design, management, and related matters. I am co-chair of the now-mostly-quiet OASIS ODF accessibility subcommittee, and helped with the analysis and fixes to the ODF spec. I am Technical Manager of the AEGIS project [http://www.aegis-project.eu], where we are developing a number of extensions to OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice for accessibility, including the successful odt2daisy and odt2braille extensions (for creating digital talking books for folks with print impairments and embossing braille documents respectively), and a hopefully-soon-to-be-published extension to support language learning and writing via the concept-coding framework for folks with cognitive impairments - among other things. I doubt I'll contribute much direct code to the effort, but I look forward to helping with design decisions that affect accessibility. Regards, Peter -- oracle_sig_logo.gif Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal Phone: +1 650 5069522 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065 green-for-email-sig_0.gif Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment
Re: Request: Can proposed committers introduce themselves?
Hi Peter, On 11.06.2011 19:49, Peter Korn wrote: I doubt I'll contribute much direct code to the effort, but I look forward to helping with design decisions that affect accessibility. Would be nice to continue working with you on accessibility :) Malte. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
On 11 June 2011 18:16, Malte Timmermann malte_timmerm...@gmx.com wrote: On 11.06.2011 18:43, Steve Lee wrote: Very cool. While IBM contributed its accessibility code to Oracle last year, Oracle was unable to fully integrate. We should finish that work if the proposal passes to podling. It looks like this will be an effort you would want to consider working on. This is the code that implements the IA2 APIs that IBM donated to Linux Foundation in December 2008.[1] I'm *very* keen to see this happen. Actually the status with IA2 in OOo is quite good - but not in public CWSes yet - I am quite sure it will find it's way to Apache OOo. Excellent! That will be very good news for NDVA user's for example as it will allow good out-of-the box screen reader access to OOo on Windows Steve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote: Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos) On 11 Jun 2011, at 11:23, Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com wrote: The part about the ASF undertaking only a reference implementation for the ODF format was not discussed. Yes it was. In fact it was the suggestion that OO.o should be refactored so that components could be reused elsewhere that encouraged me to sign up as a mentor. Both TDF and proposers saw this as a potential area for collaboration. The proposal talks about what is essentially a full replication of what we already have with LibreOffice. Since Oracle was willing to transfer the OOo source code copyrights to the ASF, the ASF could have accepted those copyrights, extract the related code for the ODF reference implementation, and re-release the source code with a copyleft license. There is certainly no consensus on whether this is viable and the original proposers do not want to limit the scope of the project to just this aspect. However, there is a desire from some initial committees and some TDF representatives to explore this. As a mentor I aim to see if this refactoring, with the collaboration opportunities it presents, can be realised. I think you refer to overall OOo refactoring (which is indeed needed), rather than code that relates to the ODF format. This work you describe can very well start with LibreOffice now, or have started even six months ago, with git repositories ready to clone. The ASF undertaking this, it will probably be several months before we begin to see progress. Simos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
On 11.06.2011 18:43, Steve Lee wrote: Very cool. While IBM contributed its accessibility code to Oracle last year, Oracle was unable to fully integrate. We should finish that work if the proposal passes to podling. It looks like this will be an effort you would want to consider working on. This is the code that implements the IA2 APIs that IBM donated to Linux Foundation in December 2008.[1] I'm *very* keen to see this happen. Actually the status with IA2 in OOo is quite good - but not in public CWSes yet - I am quite sure it will find it's way to Apache OOo. Malte. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Request to join as initial committer
Hi Joani, nice to see you joining this project! :) Malte. On 10.06.2011 23:28, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: Hi! Sorry for this just-under-the-wire request, but I would love to be added to the list of initial committers if it is not too late. Most of my strengths are around accessibility: Volunteer Job: * Orca project lead (1+ years) and developer (5+ years) * GNOME Accessibility Project assistant to the lead (1+ year) Day Job: * Assistive Technology Specialist, Carroll Center for the Blind (15 years) Thank you in advance for your consideration! Take care. Joanmarie Diggs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (non-binding) Malte. On 10.06.2011 19:05, Sam Ruby wrote: [X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
I don't understand the assertions here. It may not matter in the larger scheme of things, but I didn't want some of the assumptions here to go unquestioned. 1. It is certainly the case that the proposal comprehends sustaining OpenOffice.org and continuing it as an Apache project. The proposal also makes this statement: The OpenOffice.org implementation will serve as a reference implementation of the Open Document Format standard. While that is broader (depending on what the Apache OpenOffice.org implementation ends up being) than serving as a clean reference implementation, the notion of having a layered set of reference components that serve as a reference implementation for customization as various distributions has been discussed on this list, including by me, among others. It is my primary interest. In any case, I believe that is for the podling to resolve as part of its march through incubation. 2. The relicensing of bits not desired by the podling as LGPL strikes me as (a) extremely unlikely -- based on what we have been repeatedly told about the Apache way and (b) twice unnecessary since (i) those bits are presumably already available under LGPL by those who choose to go fish them off the OpenOffice.org site and, for that matter, from LibreOffice among other places and (ii) having them available in an idle but IP-cleared state at Apache, though not exactly lined up with the Apache way, means as ALv2 bits they are usable by LGPL-focused projects anyhow. (You say copyleft license, but there are reciprocal licenses that are not compatible with GPL/LGPL and I assume you mean [L]GPL.) Finally, the copyright has not been transferred from Oracle. Oracle granted the ASF a license under the Apache conditions for such licenses. The copyright on the licensed artifacts remains with Oracle. 3. As it appears the incubator podling will commence in a matter of days, I think it is now a matter of seeing how the importing of OpenOffice.org bits proceeds and where the podling chooses to focus in terms of establishing deliverables. There may well be multiple vectors, although we have to guard against having our arrows not lined up enough to ensure achievement of any successful results. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Simos Xenitellis [mailto:simos.li...@googlemail.com] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/%3cBANLkTi=xbf7sg1nc2jjrd-obxofukki...@mail.gmail.com%3e Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 11:55 To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ... ] Since Oracle was willing to transfer the OOo source code copyrights to the ASF, the ASF could have accepted those copyrights, extract the related code for the ODF reference implementation, and re-release the source code with a copyleft license. There is certainly no consensus on whether this is viable and the original proposers do not want to limit the scope of the project to just this aspect. However, there is a desire from some initial committees and some TDF representatives to explore this. As a mentor I aim to see if this refactoring, with the collaboration opportunities it presents, can be realised. I think you refer to overall OOo refactoring (which is indeed needed), rather than code that relates to the ODF format. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[x] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation Eric On 10/06/11 18:02, Sam Ruby wrote: *** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE] As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project. At the end of this mail, I've put a copy of the current proposal. Here is a link to the document in the wiki: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal?action=recallrev=207 As the proposal discussion threads are numerous, I encourage people to scan and review the archives for this month: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/browser Please cast your votes: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation This vote will close 72 hours from now. - Sam Ruby = OpenOffice.org - An open productivity environment = == Abstract == !OpenOffice.org is comprised of six personal productivity applications: a word processor (and its web-authoring component), spreadsheet, presentation graphics, drawing, equation editor, and database. !OpenOffice.org is released on Windows, Solaris, Linux and Macintosh operation systems, with more [[http://porting.openoffice.org/|communities]] joining, including a mature [[http://porting.openoffice.org/freebsd/|FreeBSD port]]. !OpenOffice.org is localized, supporting over 110 languages worldwide. == Proposal == Apache !OpenOffice.org will continue the mission pursued by the !OpenOffice.org project while under the sponsorship of Sun and Oracle, namely: To create, as a community, the leading international office suite that will run on all major platforms and provide access to all functionality and data through open-component based APIs and an XML-based file format. In addition to to building the !OpenOffice.org product, as an end-user facing product with many existing individual and corporate users, this project will also be active in supporting end-users via tutorials, user forums, document template repositories, etc. The project will also work to further enable !OpenOffice.org to be used as a programmable module in document automation scenarios. == Background == !OpenOffice.org was launched as an open source project by Sun Microsystems in June 2000. !OpenOffice.org was originally developed under the name of StarOffice by Star Division, a German company, which was acquired by Sun Microsystems in 1999. Sun released this as open source in 2000. !OpenOffice.org is the leading alternative to MS-Office available. Its most recent major version, the 3.x series saw over [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|100 million downloads]] in its first year. The [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|most recent estimates]] suggest a market share on the order of 8-15%. The !OpenOffice source is written in C++ and delivers language-neutral and scriptable functionality. This source technology introduces the next-stage architecture, allowing use of the suite elements as separate applications or as embedded components in other applications. Numerous other features are also present including XML-based file formats based on the vendor-neutral !OpenDocument Format (ODF) standard from OASIS and other resources. == Rationale == !OpenOffice.org core development would continue at Apache following the contribution by Oracle, in accordance with Apache bylaws and its usual open development processes. Both Oracle and ASF agree that the !OpenOffice.org development community, previously fragmented, would re-unite under ASF to ensure a stable and long term future for OpenOffice.org. ASF would enable corporate, non-profit, and volunteer stakeholders to contribute code in a collaborative fashion. Supporting tooling projects will accompany the !OpenOffice.org contribution, providing APIs for extending and customizing !OpenOffice.org. Both !OpenOffice.org and the related tooling projects support the OASIS Open Document Format, and will attract an ecosystem of developers, ISVs and Systems Integrators. ODF ensures the users of !OpenOffice.org and related solutions will own their document data, and be free to choose the application or solution that best meets their requirements. The !OpenOffice.org implementation will serve as a reference implementation of the Open Document Format standard. = Current Status = == Meritocracy == We understand the intention and value of meritocracy at Apache. We are particularly gratified to learn, during the discussion on this proposal, that there is a strong role for non-coders to participate in this meritocracy and as they demonstrate their sustained commitment and merit, to take on additional community responsibilities. The initial developers are very familiar with open source development, both at Apache and
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (non-binding) - Don Harbison Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote on 06/10/2011 12:02:44 PM: Please cast your votes: [ X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation This vote will close 72 hours from now. - Sam Ruby
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (binding) Dick On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:06 PM, donald_harbi...@us.ibm.com wrote: +1 (non-binding) - Don Harbison Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote on 06/10/2011 12:02:44 PM: Please cast your votes: [ X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation This vote will close 72 hours from now. - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
What is Champion?
Hi Sam Ruby san, Thanks for your proposal. http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal As written in the proposal, you are Champion of Apache OpenOffice.org incubator project (Apache calls this podling, right?). What is Champion? What does Champion do? Thanks, khirano - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: What is Champion?
Hi Kazunari, that's an explanation of the role Champion as it can be found at the Apache incubator proposal guide [1]: The Champion is a person already associated with Apache who leads the proposal process. It is common - but not necessary - for the Champion to also be proposed as a Mentor. A Champion should be found before the proposal is formally submitted. [1] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html#Champion Cheers Daniel On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Sam Ruby san, Thanks for your proposal. http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal As written in the proposal, you are Champion of Apache OpenOffice.org incubator project (Apache calls this podling, right?). What is Champion? What does Champion do? Thanks, khirano - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept Sqoop for Incubation
This VOTE is now closed. I will be sending out the results in a separate mail soon. Thanks and Regards, Arvind Prabhakar On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:37 AM, Michael McCandless luc...@mikemccandless.com wrote: +1 Mike McCandless http://blog.mikemccandless.com On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:39 PM, arv...@cloudera.com arv...@cloudera.com wrote: As there are no active discussions on the [PROPOSAL] thread for a few days now, I will like to initiate the vote to accept Sqoop as an Apache Incubator project. The proposal discussion thread and full text of the proposal can be found at the following locations: Discussion Thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/general@incubator.apache.org/msg27726.html Proposal: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/SqoopProposal Please cast your votes: [ ] +1 Accept Sqoop for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to Sqoop incubation [ ] -1 Reject Sqoop for incubation This vote will close 72 hours from now. Thanks and Regards, Arvind Prabhakar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[VOTE] [RESULT] Accept Sqoop for Incubation
With 19 +1 votes (11 binding), no -1 votes, and no 0 votes, the vote passes. Binding votes Chris Mattmann Sanjiva Weerawarana Ralph Goers Julien Vermillard Mark Struberg Tommaso Teofili Leo Simons Christian Grobmeier Niall Pemberton Patrick Hunt Tom White Non-binding votes Ioannis Canellos Nigel Daley Edward J. Yoon Olivier Lamy Steve Loughran Phillip Rhodes Eric Sammer Michael McCandless The binding votes were counted based on the Incubator PMC membership list located at: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc Thanks everyone who voted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[x] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation (non-binding) I would like to humbly beg you people from Apache for giving a chance to those who are willing to join you. I am deeply sorry that we are bringing a big political dispute with us. My hope is that the community that was so heavily divided last year will be able to reunite on your neutral ground. Thanks! Ingrid von der Mehden - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (non-binding). I'm not concerned by any the ASF don't do XYZ - there's very little centralization and the pressure will mostly be on the Incubator and then later members@ to ensure 'the Apache way' isn't closeted to programmers. It is a large project; but so what? I thought Harmony had no chance of being coded and that went very quickly, showing how well maximum openness can walk the path between corporate, startup and hobby needs. I was initially concerned by the Libre side of things. Were Oracle looking to suckerpunch Apache? Were we going to smile and take it for a random set of bytes (code over community; which we know is bad)? As I dig more I am less concerned by this. It's sad that Libre and Open would be separate, but that's a sadness that pervades our communities. Free and Open are unable to find a compromise (cf: Linuxes BSDs) and this is just more of the same. We talk about 'the community' in reference to Libre, but dual-licensing models have two communities - you can't spin one off and forget the other. So +1 to OpenOffice@Apache. It creates a contribution model to LibreOffice, without scaring away the big potential contributors with undesirable licensing. Hen On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote: *** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE] As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project. At the end of this mail, I've put a copy of the current proposal. Here is a link to the document in the wiki: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal?action=recallrev=207 As the proposal discussion threads are numerous, I encourage people to scan and review the archives for this month: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/browser Please cast your votes: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation This vote will close 72 hours from now. - Sam Ruby = OpenOffice.org - An open productivity environment = == Abstract == !OpenOffice.org is comprised of six personal productivity applications: a word processor (and its web-authoring component), spreadsheet, presentation graphics, drawing, equation editor, and database. !OpenOffice.org is released on Windows, Solaris, Linux and Macintosh operation systems, with more [[http://porting.openoffice.org/|communities]] joining, including a mature [[http://porting.openoffice.org/freebsd/|FreeBSD port]]. !OpenOffice.org is localized, supporting over 110 languages worldwide. == Proposal == Apache !OpenOffice.org will continue the mission pursued by the !OpenOffice.org project while under the sponsorship of Sun and Oracle, namely: To create, as a community, the leading international office suite that will run on all major platforms and provide access to all functionality and data through open-component based APIs and an XML-based file format. In addition to to building the !OpenOffice.org product, as an end-user facing product with many existing individual and corporate users, this project will also be active in supporting end-users via tutorials, user forums, document template repositories, etc. The project will also work to further enable !OpenOffice.org to be used as a programmable module in document automation scenarios. == Background == !OpenOffice.org was launched as an open source project by Sun Microsystems in June 2000. !OpenOffice.org was originally developed under the name of StarOffice by Star Division, a German company, which was acquired by Sun Microsystems in 1999. Sun released this as open source in 2000. !OpenOffice.org is the leading alternative to MS-Office available. Its most recent major version, the 3.x series saw over [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|100 million downloads]] in its first year. The [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|most recent estimates]] suggest a market share on the order of 8-15%. The !OpenOffice source is written in C++ and delivers language-neutral and scriptable functionality. This source technology introduces the next-stage architecture, allowing use of the suite elements as separate applications or as embedded components in other applications. Numerous other features are also present including XML-based file formats based on the vendor-neutral !OpenDocument Format (ODF) standard from OASIS and other resources. == Rationale == !OpenOffice.org core development would continue at Apache following the contribution by Oracle, in accordance with Apache bylaws and its usual open development processes. Both Oracle and ASF agree that the !OpenOffice.org development community, previously fragmented, would
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation (non-binding) I like the Apache license and I think having a really free alternative is good for everyone, as much as clang vs gcc and linux vs FreeBSD. Apache is also a good fit for OO technologically and I think the incubation process will end up benefiting libreoffice by either code adoption and by providing further motivation to keep being relevant. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 - binding Regards, Alan On Jun 10, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Sam Ruby wrote: *** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE] As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project. At the end of this mail, I've put a copy of the current proposal. Here is a link to the document in the wiki: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal?action=recallrev=207 As the proposal discussion threads are numerous, I encourage people to scan and review the archives for this month: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201106.mbox/browser Please cast your votes: [ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation [ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation [ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation This vote will close 72 hours from now. - Sam Ruby = OpenOffice.org - An open productivity environment = == Abstract == !OpenOffice.org is comprised of six personal productivity applications: a word processor (and its web-authoring component), spreadsheet, presentation graphics, drawing, equation editor, and database. !OpenOffice.org is released on Windows, Solaris, Linux and Macintosh operation systems, with more [[http://porting.openoffice.org/|communities]] joining, including a mature [[http://porting.openoffice.org/freebsd/|FreeBSD port]]. !OpenOffice.org is localized, supporting over 110 languages worldwide. == Proposal == Apache !OpenOffice.org will continue the mission pursued by the !OpenOffice.org project while under the sponsorship of Sun and Oracle, namely: To create, as a community, the leading international office suite that will run on all major platforms and provide access to all functionality and data through open-component based APIs and an XML-based file format. In addition to to building the !OpenOffice.org product, as an end-user facing product with many existing individual and corporate users, this project will also be active in supporting end-users via tutorials, user forums, document template repositories, etc. The project will also work to further enable !OpenOffice.org to be used as a programmable module in document automation scenarios. == Background == !OpenOffice.org was launched as an open source project by Sun Microsystems in June 2000. !OpenOffice.org was originally developed under the name of StarOffice by Star Division, a German company, which was acquired by Sun Microsystems in 1999. Sun released this as open source in 2000. !OpenOffice.org is the leading alternative to MS-Office available. Its most recent major version, the 3.x series saw over [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|100 million downloads]] in its first year. The [[http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html|most recent estimates]] suggest a market share on the order of 8-15%. The !OpenOffice source is written in C++ and delivers language-neutral and scriptable functionality. This source technology introduces the next-stage architecture, allowing use of the suite elements as separate applications or as embedded components in other applications. Numerous other features are also present including XML-based file formats based on the vendor-neutral !OpenDocument Format (ODF) standard from OASIS and other resources. == Rationale == !OpenOffice.org core development would continue at Apache following the contribution by Oracle, in accordance with Apache bylaws and its usual open development processes. Both Oracle and ASF agree that the !OpenOffice.org development community, previously fragmented, would re-unite under ASF to ensure a stable and long term future for OpenOffice.org. ASF would enable corporate, non-profit, and volunteer stakeholders to contribute code in a collaborative fashion. Supporting tooling projects will accompany the !OpenOffice.org contribution, providing APIs for extending and customizing !OpenOffice.org. Both !OpenOffice.org and the related tooling projects support the OASIS Open Document Format, and will attract an ecosystem of developers, ISVs and Systems Integrators. ODF ensures the users of !OpenOffice.org and related solutions will own their document data, and be free to choose the application or solution that best meets their requirements. The !OpenOffice.org implementation will serve as a reference implementation of the Open Document Format standard. = Current Status = == Meritocracy == We understand the intention and value of meritocracy at Apache. We are particularly gratified to learn, during the discussion on this proposal, that there is a strong role for non-coders to participate in this meritocracy and as they demonstrate their sustained commitment and merit,
