Advice for incubator releases and naming

[Kathy Saunders]

I'm working on Apache Quarks and the community has been very active over
the last few months.  I was thinking about the right time to start a
release;  we are still working on the build and license issues, but should
be able to start the process once that is done.

I had thought we would want to wait for a release until we have the name
approved.  The name Quarks does have some uniqueness issues, and I have
opened a suitable name search to change the name to Apache Edgent (
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-105).

I was looking at the incubator release pages, and realized that there is
nothing that states that the name must be approved prior to a release.
Should we wait until it is approved, particularly given that Quarks has
some uniqueness issues or is it acceptable to proceed?  Is there an
expectation that we will have a release prior to the name being approved?

Thanks for any advice; this is my first direct experience with incubation.

Regards,
Kathy

[VOTE] Release Apache Trafodion (incubating) release 2.0.1-incubating RC3

[Roberta Marton]

Hello,



This is a call to vote on Apache Trafodion patch release 2.0.1-incubating
RC3 (Release Candidate 3).



Apache Trafodion is a webscale SQL-on-Hadoop solution enabling
transactional or

operational workloads on Hadoop.  Trafodion builds on the scalability,
elasticity, and

flexibility of Hadoop. Trafodion extends Hadoop to provide guaranteed

transactional integrity, enabling new kinds of big data applications to run
on

Hadoop.



The changes in this patch release address licensing issues found during the

Apache Trafodion release 2.0.1 RC1 (Release Candidate 1) voting cycle.



Changes since 2.0.1 RC1:

   [TRAFODION-2068] Missing DISCLAIMER files for release package

   [TRAFODION-2082] BSD-4 license for swsprintf and swscanf unclear



The Trafodion community has approved  this release:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-trafodion-dev/201606.mbox/ajax/%3Cab0bbe9228d5b7b487f4b9952f17ede5%40mail.gmail.com%3E



The latest tag for this candidate is "2.0.1rc3". Git repository: git://
git.apache.org/incubator-trafodion.git:

*https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-trafodion.git;a=commit;h=6357cb8f76ab399b451896c75273fd6f2e02d9c4
*



Release artifacts are:

*https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/trafodion/trafodion-2.0.1-RC3
*



Artifacts are signed with my key (A44C5A05), which is in
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/trafodion/KEYS



Instructions:



Setting up build environment:

*https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Create+Build+Environment
*



Building:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Build+Source



The vote is open for at least 72 hours.



[ ] +1 approve

[ ] +0 no opinion

[ ] -1 disapprove (and reason why)



  Regards,

  Roberta

Re: Fwd: [VOTE] Release Apache Taverna Command-line Tool 3.1.0-incubating RC3

[Josh Elser]

+1 (binding)

* Built from source and ran tests
* xsums/sigs good
* KEYS is up to date
* DISCLAIMER is present
* L present in source release artifacts (and also in JARs where 
applicable)
  - command-line's NOTICE has a vague reference as the other projects 
to "Copyright 2010-2014 University of Manchester, UK", but not 
explicitly what applies. Might that be clarified (if it's simple). The 
API jar didn't contain that portion in its META-INF/NOTICE, but I'm 
unsure if it actually contains code that the Uni has copyright over. 
Enging and common activities had some more clarity here, I believe.

* mvn apache-rat:check passes

- Josh

Stian Soiland-Reyes wrote:

The Taverna PPMC has successfully voted for the source release of

   Apache Taverna Engine 3.1.0-incubating
   Apache Taverna Common Activities 2.1.0-incubating
   Apache Taverna Command-line Tool 3.1.0-incubating


This is the first major release of Apache Taverna, following two
library releases which this relies on.

Note that Taverna still suffers from not having enough active mentors;
so we therefore ask kindly for the wider incubator community to help
review this release candidate.

We would also welcome any new mentors to guide us as we feel we move
further towards graduation.


Related podling threads:

[VOTE]: 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/03184f452898d3f8280301b93b40fce5902d45997ce03e341afaf3d1@%3Cdev.taverna.apache.org%3E

[RESULT]: 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d0820b3a3166d5cab89203859baa5c35707904fa2efa7b2870ccf291@%3Cdev.taverna.apache.org%3E

[DISCUSS]: 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/869109d8c0e33bb537ac02e8286dbba2383454e13fc6986750749e6e@%3Cdev.taverna.apache.org%3E


Apache Taverna Engine executes Taverna workflows, defined using
Apache Taverna Language or Taverna 2's .t2flow format, and
provides OSGi services for monitoring and controlling the
detailed execution of workflow.

Apache Taverna Common Activities provide bindings for the
Taverna Engine to invoke activities such as
command line tools (local/ssh), Beanshell scripts,
REST and WSDL services, spreadsheet import and
user interactions.

Apache Taverna Command-line Tool provides a shell command
for executing Taverna workflows, with output of results to either
a folder or a Research Object bundle including detailed provenance.
In addition to the Taverna Common Activities, the Command-line
supports plugins using Taverna OSGi services.


The release candidates to be voted over are available at:

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/taverna/source/rc3/taverna-engine-3.1.0-incubating/

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/taverna/source/rc3/taverna-common-activities-2.1.0-incubating/

https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/taverna/source/rc3/taverna-commandline-3.1.0-incubating/


Build the release candidate *in the above order*, using:

 mvn clean install


On a multi-core Linux/OSX machine with a fast disk you may achieve a
speed-up with:

 mvn clean install -T1.5C


SHA-1 checksums:

cccbdaf2cac2a05df55c62d03d6308ac75f72a58
apache-taverna-engine-3.1.0-incubating-source-release.zip
94d15c4c1dbd1021b8726e584810a6030e90a16c
apache-taverna-common-activities-2.1.0-incubating-source-release.zip
71ba1a84cf1cb7293de3fef5bbeb81b353634698
apache-taverna-commandline-3.1.0-incubating-source-release.zip


MD5 checksums:

276c36375b28c2a7a01fbb48c8cf66ea
apache-taverna-engine-3.1.0-incubating-source-release.zip
fccf07b3d6fe7245c67466e75fcd840b
apache-taverna-common-activities-2.1.0-incubating-source-release.zip
948b7f0fae080ac4be802571d182a5cb
apache-taverna-commandline-3.1.0-incubating-source-release.zip


The release candidates correspond to the following git commits:

https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-taverna-engine.git;a=commit;h=403dbc4a5984798b2ea98dfb37314128b50b2bcf

https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-taverna-common-activities.git;a=commit;h=a192c858c65441f33043aeeaa0889e0159a5a4e8

https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-taverna-commandline.git;a=commit;h=2db7d9f823e895d33ef2107ebfe5d70ed20e1fc7


Release candidates are signed with a GPG key available at:
   https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/taverna/KEYS


A staged Maven repository is available for review at:
   https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachetaverna-1015/


The changelog for this release is available from JIRA:

   
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12318322=12332249
   
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12318322=12332250
   
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12318322=12332251



Please vote on releasing these packages as:

   Apache Taverna Engine 3.1.0-incubating
   Apache Taverna Common Activities 2.1.0-incubating
   Apache Taverna Command-line Tool 3.1.0-incubating


The vote is open for at least 72 hours and passes if a majority of at
least three +1 Apache Incubator IPMC votes 

[ANNOUNCE] Apache Slider 0.91.0-incubating

[Josh Elser]

The Apache Slider team is proud to announce Apache Slider incubation 
release version 0.91.0-incubating.


Apache Slider (incubating) is a YARN application which deploys existing
distributed applications on YARN, monitors them, and makes them larger 
or smaller as desired - even while the application is running.


The release artifacts are available at:
http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/slider/0.91.0-incubating/

To use the artifacts, please use the following documentation:
http://slider.incubator.apache.org/docs/getting_started.html

Release notes available at:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12315422=12334370

We would like to thank all the contributors that made the release possible.

Regards,
The Slider Team

-

DISCLAIMER

Apache Slider is an effort undergoing incubation at The Apache Software 
Foundation (ASF), sponsored by the Apache Incubator PMC. Incubation is 
required of all newly accepted projects until a further review indicates 
that the infrastructure, communications, and decision making process 
have stabilized in a manner consistent with other successful ASF 
projects. While incubation status is not necessarily a reflection of the 
completeness or stability of the code, it does indicate that the project 
has yet to be fully endorsed by the ASF.


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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Julian Hyde]

> On Jun 29, 2016, at 7:03 AM, Marvin Humphrey  wrote:
> 
> An even worse example than Eagle

I’m a mentor of Eagle. Mea culpa, I took my eye off the ball. I’m asked them to 
do a branding audit and fix themselves.

Julian


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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Alex Harui]

On 6/29/16, 9:13 AM, "Shane Curcuru"  wrote:
>
>> 
>> Hmmm not a bad idea.  I'd still like to see us re-double the effort on
>> resolving branding issues on the websites.  Ultimately I'd like for
>>mentors
>> to own it, but that doesn't seem to happen due to mentor availability.
>
>It's clear there's too wide a variability in mentor, ahem, attention
>span to rely on mentors for all podlings.  Volunteers and ideas on how
>to do this better appreciated.

Doesn't Whimsy have a report review tool?  Maybe it could popup the
podling's website in a separate window.  And if you don't see the word
Disclaimer/Incubating above the fold...

-Alex

Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Shane Curcuru]

John D. Ament wrote on 6/29/16 9:21 AM:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:18 AM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>>> The presence of the word "incubator" in the URL is deliberate: it alerts
>> users
>>> that a podling is incubating.  I'd feel better about this proposal if
>> podlings
>>> weren't so successful about concealing their incubation status[1][2].
>>>
>>> -0, since the Incubator remains unserious about incubation disclaimers on
>>> websites.

I agree the IPMC as a whole needs to take ensuring that podlings are
properly branding their status seriously - in particular, to provide
better oversight, regular reminders to podling communities as needed,
and direct action (or raising to board@) if podlings don't pay
attention.  I also understand historically it's been hard to organize
getting this done.

I personally don't want to weigh in on the URL.  I can see the large
hassle it is for changing various references when graduation comes
around.  I like having it there as a reminder; but what's far more
important is if the overall appearance of the website clearly shows the
incubation status - rather than just the URL.

>>
>> Perhaps a solution to this it's a require poddlings to be serous about
>> this when they make a release? i.e. vote -1 if the incubating disclaimer is
>> not clear on a poddling site.
>>

Nice.  Any way there can be a simple check for people reviewing process
steps is helpful.  And yes, if the podling doesn't have an appropriate
website, then you should vote -1 on the release.  Podlings can wait the
couple of days it takes to fix their website.

> 
> Hmmm not a bad idea.  I'd still like to see us re-double the effort on
> resolving branding issues on the websites.  Ultimately I'd like for mentors
> to own it, but that doesn't seem to happen due to mentor availability.

It's clear there's too wide a variability in mentor, ahem, attention
span to rely on mentors for all podlings.  Volunteers and ideas on how
to do this better appreciated.

I definitely like all the ideas focused on better explaining and better
defining what the specific policies are.  In particular, requiring the
incubator logo and a more prominent "under incubation" disclaimer are
things I very much welcome.

- Shane

> 
> John
> 
> 
>>
>> (And I would be willing to vote that way on releases if this vote passes)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin


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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Marvin Humphrey]

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 6:17 AM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> The presence of the word "incubator" in the URL is deliberate: it alerts 
>> users
>> that a podling is incubating.  I'd feel better about this proposal if 
>> podlings
>> weren't so successful about concealing their incubation status[1][2].
>>
>> -0, since the Incubator remains unserious about incubation disclaimers on
>> websites.
>
> Perhaps a solution to this it's a require poddlings to be serous about this 
> when they make a release? i.e. vote -1 if the incubating disclaimer is not 
> clear on a poddling site.
>
> (And I would be willing to vote that way on releases if this vote passes)

Well, I hate that solution because it counts on you playing Bad Cop, Justin.
Other people need to do their part.  We have lots of people voting to remove
the controls and only a handful stepping up to address the underlying issues
that the controls were meant to address.

An even worse example than Eagle: after 6 months in incubation, Impala still
has no website at impala.apache.org / impala.incubator.apache.org and the
existing site at impala.io encourages people to buy support from a specific
vendor!

  http://impala.io/

  Retain Freedom from Lock-in

  Impala is open source (Apache License), so you can self-support in
  perpetuity if you wish. However, technical support for those who want it
  is available via a Cloudera Enterprise subscription.

This situation is more dire than I thought.  I'm changing my vote to -1
binding.

We need more confidence that we can actually count on human oversight to
address branding issues before removing the automatic controls.

Marvin Humphrey

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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Nick Kew]

On Wed, 2016-06-29 at 14:43 +0200, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:

> We are not only talking about web sites. The discussion is, for
> example, also about aliases for mailing lists.

I'm aware that mailinglists work at either: it took me by surprise
a while back.  For them too there are a couple of alternatives,
that should perhaps have been DISCUSSed before a VOTE.

For WWW, a redirect means both addresses work but resolve to
a canonical one (and graduation just means the redirect
switches around and becomes a 301).  For mail we get similar
behaviour already if the list sets reply-to the canonical
address and list admin addresses (which I think it does).

But this belongs in a [DISCUSS] thread.  When did I miss it?

-- 
Nick Kew


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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[John D. Ament]

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:18 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > The presence of the word "incubator" in the URL is deliberate: it alerts
> users
> > that a podling is incubating.  I'd feel better about this proposal if
> podlings
> > weren't so successful about concealing their incubation status[1][2].
> >
> > -0, since the Incubator remains unserious about incubation disclaimers on
> > websites.
>
> Perhaps a solution to this it's a require poddlings to be serous about
> this when they make a release? i.e. vote -1 if the incubating disclaimer is
> not clear on a poddling site.
>

Hmmm not a bad idea.  I'd still like to see us re-double the effort on
resolving branding issues on the websites.  Ultimately I'd like for mentors
to own it, but that doesn't seem to happen due to mentor availability.

John


>
> (And I would be willing to vote that way on releases if this vote passes)
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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>
>

Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> The presence of the word "incubator" in the URL is deliberate: it alerts users
> that a podling is incubating.  I'd feel better about this proposal if podlings
> weren't so successful about concealing their incubation status[1][2].
> 
> -0, since the Incubator remains unserious about incubation disclaimers on
> websites.

Perhaps a solution to this it's a require poddlings to be serous about this 
when they make a release? i.e. vote -1 if the incubating disclaimer is not 
clear on a poddling site.

(And I would be willing to vote that way on releases if this vote passes)

Thanks,
Justin


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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Andy Seaborne]

+1 (binding)

Andy

On 28/06/16 15:28, John D. Ament wrote:

All,

Its been discussed a few times, and I'd like to provide clear feedback to
the infra team on how to implement going forward.

Typically, the addresses $podling.apache.org and $
podling.incubator.apache.org work, and have worked for a while.

This is a call to vote on whether the IPMC agrees to this or not.  If they
do, I will ask infra to further clean this up, as DNS seems to be an issue
at times for podlings.  The benefit is that for SEO, the website URL does
not change.

I'm going to leave this open for 72 hours, at least and hope for some
binding votes on this subject.

[+1] I want the two URLs to both work the same.
[+/- 0] Don't care
[-1] I want the $podling.incubator.apache.org URL to be the one that works,
including emails.

John




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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[John D. Ament]

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 8:41 AM Marvin Humphrey 
wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 8:01 PM, John D. Ament 
> wrote:
>
> > Marvin had sent out an audit of podlings out of alignment, we should
> double
> > check that as going through quarterly reports.
>
> This vote makes me cranky.  Everyone is focused on making it easier for
> podlings.  Is the goal of incubation to pass a graduation vote or to learn?
>

Its to learn, but...


>
> The presence of the word "incubator" in the URL is deliberate: it alerts
> users
> that a podling is incubating.  I'd feel better about this proposal if
> podlings
> weren't so successful about concealing their incubation status[1][2].
>

I would argue that the inclusion of "incubator" is the easier solution, and
that forcing them to comply with branding rules (logo, disclaimer, naming)
is the harder part.  They can no longer claim partial compliance by using
the .incubator. url.


>
> -0, since the Incubator remains unserious about incubation disclaimers on
> websites.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> [1] See for example the current http://eagle.incubator.apache.org/ where
> you
> have to scroll waay down before finding the incubator logo and the
> small-type incubation disclaimers buried in the footer.
>

Yep, I have them on my to do.  They're not out of compliance with the
current wording, and we should probably update the current wording to say
that it should be above the fold.



> [2] The earlier audit: http://markmail.org/message/cqmmfuphhx2z6n23
>
> -
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>
>

Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Jochen Wiedmann]

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Marvin Humphrey  wrote:

> This vote makes me cranky.  Everyone is focused on making it easier for
> podlings.  Is the goal of incubation to pass a graduation vote or to learn?

True, but I don't think that life should be more difficult for incoming podlings
than for existing teams. Why should they learn more than required?

Jochen


-- 
The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"

http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg

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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Jochen Wiedmann]

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Nick Kew  wrote:

> Perhaps it would make sense for $podling.apache.org to
> issue a 302 redirect to the incubator?  Then it's there
> for people and search engines, but the potential for
> being accidentally misleading is much reduced.

We are not only talking about web sites. The discussion is, for
example, also about aliases for mailing lists.

Jochen



-- 
The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"

http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg

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Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Marvin Humphrey]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 8:01 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:

> Marvin had sent out an audit of podlings out of alignment, we should double
> check that as going through quarterly reports.

This vote makes me cranky.  Everyone is focused on making it easier for
podlings.  Is the goal of incubation to pass a graduation vote or to learn?

The presence of the word "incubator" in the URL is deliberate: it alerts users
that a podling is incubating.  I'd feel better about this proposal if podlings
weren't so successful about concealing their incubation status[1][2].

-0, since the Incubator remains unserious about incubation disclaimers on
websites.

Marvin Humphrey

[1] See for example the current http://eagle.incubator.apache.org/ where you
have to scroll waay down before finding the incubator logo and the
small-type incubation disclaimers buried in the footer.
[2] The earlier audit: http://markmail.org/message/cqmmfuphhx2z6n23

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Re: Notes on branding

[Pierre Smits]

Hi John,

Thanks for keeping up the good work and being adamant/unwavering regarding
the branding aspects visavis the podlings.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM 
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 1:36 PM, John D. Ament 
wrote:

> Hey guys
>
> I'm starting to go through the podlings to identify branding issues.
> Touched the first 12 projects, for those that had websites, 4 were not
> within branding requirements.
>
> I'm not sure if other scan give a hand here on contacting podlings, but I
> went through Airflow -> Fineract, and contacted Airflow, Atlas, Beam and
> Blur.  Otherwise I'll continue to churn through contacting projects.
>
> John
>

Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Nick Kew]

On Tue, 2016-06-28 at 14:28 +, John D. Ament wrote:
> All,
> 
> Its been discussed a few times, and I'd like to provide clear feedback to
> the infra team on how to implement going forward.

I don't recollect it being discussed in these terms.  Could it
be that it's appeared as a sub-thread of some other discussion?

> Typically, the addresses $podling.apache.org and $
> podling.incubator.apache.org work, and have worked for a while.

Indeed.  The downside is that it's potentially confusing.
Especially if a marketing department sees it and prefers to
reference the URL without "incubator".

Perhaps it would make sense for $podling.apache.org to
issue a 302 redirect to the incubator?  Then it's there
for people and search engines, but the potential for
being accidentally misleading is much reduced.

> This is a call to vote on whether the IPMC agrees to this or not.  If they
> do, I will ask infra to further clean this up, as DNS seems to be an issue
> at times for podlings.  The benefit is that for SEO, the website URL does
> not change.
> 
> I'm going to leave this open for 72 hours, at least and hope for some
> binding votes on this subject.

> [+1] I want the two URLs to both work the same.
> [+/- 0] Don't care
> [-1] I want the $podling.incubator.apache.org URL to be the one that works,
> including emails.

I think this voting scheme scheme is broken: it triggers a
natural bias to +1, even if you'd reversed the options!
(this was a big issue in gerrymandering our referendum -
there have been academic studies on how the question
affects how people vote).

Anyway, -1 (binding), at least until my points above about
potential for misleading have been answered.

-- 
Nick Kew



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Notes on branding

[John D. Ament]

Hey guys

I'm starting to go through the podlings to identify branding issues.
Touched the first 12 projects, for those that had websites, 4 were not
within branding requirements.

I'm not sure if other scan give a hand here on contacting podlings, but I
went through Airflow -> Fineract, and contacted Airflow, Atlas, Beam and
Blur.  Otherwise I'll continue to churn through contacting projects.

John

Re: [VOTE] $podling.apache.org is the same as $podling.incubator.apache.org

[Tim Ellison]

+1 (binding) for the reasons already stated by others - reduces
engagement friction as projects pass through the incubator.
Having a clear indication on the site that the project is in incubation
works better than the URL segment.

Regards,
Tim

On 28/06/16 15:28, John D. Ament wrote:
> All,
> 
> Its been discussed a few times, and I'd like to provide clear feedback to
> the infra team on how to implement going forward.
> 
> Typically, the addresses $podling.apache.org and $
> podling.incubator.apache.org work, and have worked for a while.
> 
> This is a call to vote on whether the IPMC agrees to this or not.  If they
> do, I will ask infra to further clean this up, as DNS seems to be an issue
> at times for podlings.  The benefit is that for SEO, the website URL does
> not change.
> 
> I'm going to leave this open for 72 hours, at least and hope for some
> binding votes on this subject.
> 
> [+1] I want the two URLs to both work the same.
> [+/- 0] Don't care
> [-1] I want the $podling.incubator.apache.org URL to be the one that works,
> including emails.
> 
> John
> 

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