Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[John D. Ament]

Dave,

Thanks for clarifying.  I'm glad its these two items, as I would have been
worried if there were others.

1. Ideally, the PPMC should be able to vet the release.  You're pretty
close, but you want to get to the day where you have 0 issues found during
an incubating release.  Realistically, that's why the PPMC vote is a
recommendation vote to the IPMC and the IPMC has final say.  Part of the
maturity assessment says whether or not you can vet your own releases, so
that when it gets to this list its less deep digging and more "Yes, they
got this."

Your most recent release had an odd quirk about it, probably been there for
a while and no one noticed. That's why we include the incubating disclaimer
on the release.

2. This is a temporary problem.  If you're ever in a situation where you
need someone added, and St.Ack's not around, just send an email to
private@i.a.o and someone will give you a hand.  When you graduate, your VP
will be the one handling these requests.

John

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:02 PM Dave Birdsall <dave.birds...@esgyn.com>
wrote:

> At the moment, mainly two things:
>
> 1. Release validation
> 2. Occasional administrative items associated with adding new committers
> and/or podling PMC members
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John D. Ament [mailto:johndam...@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 5:43 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
>
> Also, could you please expound on what you are reliant on St.Ack on?
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 8:34 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Help me understand, why is this a mentor issue and not IPMC one?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Atanu Mishra <atanu.mis...@esgyn.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Response below.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Roman Shaposhnik
> > > <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM, John D. Ament
> > >> <johndam...@apache.org>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > Dave,
> > >> >
> > >> > For some reason, I feel like I commented on that thread as well,
> > >> > but
> > >> don't
> > >> > see it, so I'm either thinking of something else or its inlined
> > somewhere
> > >> > that I didn't see (e.g. the emails back and forth with Pierre).
> > >> >
> > >> > The question to always ask with company alliances is if someone
> > >> > would contribute to the project if they weren't paid by $dayjob to
> do
> > >> > so.
> > The
> > >> > beauty of the Apache Way is by focusing on individuals, this
> > >> > problem becomes more apparent.  Of the new contributors you added
> > >> > that work
> > for
> > >> > Esgyn, which of them would realistically contribute to Trafodion
> > >> > if
> > they
> > >> > weren't employed by Esgyn?  Likewise, if Esgyn stopped building a
> > product
> > >> > on top of Trafodion, would those contributors remain?
> > >> >
> > >> > In addition, with such tight company affiliation, does the PMC
> > represent
> > >> a
> > >> > reasonable cross section so that they can assert their iP claims?
> > >> > For example, based on looking at the usage of Trafodion vs Apache
> > Trafodion
> > >> on
> > >> > https://esgyn.com/ would the PMC send an email to some
> > representative of
> > >> > Esgyn asking them to correct the branding errors? (To be clear, a
> > cursory
> > >> > look around the website only gives me one minor error, nothing
> > >> > crazy
> > like
> > >> > we've seen with other projects, you've done a great job keeping
> > branding
> > >> in
> > >> > line with guidelines on both the ASF site and here)
> > >> >
> > >> > These are the reasons, at least from my POV, why community
> > >> > diversity
> > is
> > >> > important.  To be honest, I don't see any of the typical warning
> > signs I
> > >> > see with company backed ASF projects that I see here.  Its clear
> > >> > that
> > its
> > >> > ASF developed first.  I see great communication and collaboration
> > >> > via
> > >> email
> > >> > (heck, I wish my $dayjob communicated this well 

RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Dave Birdsall]

At the moment, mainly two things:

1. Release validation
2. Occasional administrative items associated with adding new committers
and/or podling PMC members

-Original Message-
From: John D. Ament [mailto:johndam...@apache.org]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 5:43 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

Also, could you please expound on what you are reliant on St.Ack on?

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 8:34 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> Help me understand, why is this a mentor issue and not IPMC one?
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Atanu Mishra <atanu.mis...@esgyn.com>
> wrote:
> > Response below.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Roman Shaposhnik
> > <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM, John D. Ament
> >> <johndam...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Dave,
> >> >
> >> > For some reason, I feel like I commented on that thread as well,
> >> > but
> >> don't
> >> > see it, so I'm either thinking of something else or its inlined
> somewhere
> >> > that I didn't see (e.g. the emails back and forth with Pierre).
> >> >
> >> > The question to always ask with company alliances is if someone
> >> > would contribute to the project if they weren't paid by $dayjob to do
> >> > so.
> The
> >> > beauty of the Apache Way is by focusing on individuals, this
> >> > problem becomes more apparent.  Of the new contributors you added
> >> > that work
> for
> >> > Esgyn, which of them would realistically contribute to Trafodion
> >> > if
> they
> >> > weren't employed by Esgyn?  Likewise, if Esgyn stopped building a
> product
> >> > on top of Trafodion, would those contributors remain?
> >> >
> >> > In addition, with such tight company affiliation, does the PMC
> represent
> >> a
> >> > reasonable cross section so that they can assert their iP claims?
> >> > For example, based on looking at the usage of Trafodion vs Apache
> Trafodion
> >> on
> >> > https://esgyn.com/ would the PMC send an email to some
> representative of
> >> > Esgyn asking them to correct the branding errors? (To be clear, a
> cursory
> >> > look around the website only gives me one minor error, nothing
> >> > crazy
> like
> >> > we've seen with other projects, you've done a great job keeping
> branding
> >> in
> >> > line with guidelines on both the ASF site and here)
> >> >
> >> > These are the reasons, at least from my POV, why community
> >> > diversity
> is
> >> > important.  To be honest, I don't see any of the typical warning
> signs I
> >> > see with company backed ASF projects that I see here.  Its clear
> >> > that
> its
> >> > ASF developed first.  I see great communication and collaboration
> >> > via
> >> email
> >> > (heck, I wish my $dayjob communicated this well via email).
> >> >
> >> > So to answer your question, no, I don't think Trafodion needs
> >> > more mentors.  Maybe you need some help with the graduation
> >> > process, but
> from
> >> my
> >> > POV you seem like TLP material to me.
> >>
> >> +1 to the above. I honestly still don't understand what is the
> >> +problem
> >> with Trafodion
> >> (if any) that piling mentors up would be a good solution to.
> >>
> >
> > An extract from the original email should help answer that question.
> > We are very dependent on one mentor (St.Ack) at the moment.
> >
> >> We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
> > experience.
> >> But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our
> >> current mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five,
> >> two have
> since
> >> resigned due to other obligations.)
> >
> > Atanu
> >
> > --
> > __
> > *Atanu Mishra*
> > *Esgyn Corporation*
> > Milpitas, CA 95035
> > m: +1.408.219.9765
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

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Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[John D. Ament]

Also, could you please expound on what you are reliant on St.Ack on?

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 8:34 PM Roman Shaposhnik 
wrote:

> Help me understand, why is this a mentor issue and not IPMC one?
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Atanu Mishra 
> wrote:
> > Response below.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Roman Shaposhnik 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM, John D. Ament 
> >> wrote:
> >> > Dave,
> >> >
> >> > For some reason, I feel like I commented on that thread as well, but
> >> don't
> >> > see it, so I'm either thinking of something else or its inlined
> somewhere
> >> > that I didn't see (e.g. the emails back and forth with Pierre).
> >> >
> >> > The question to always ask with company alliances is if someone would
> >> > contribute to the project if they weren't paid by $dayjob to do so.
> The
> >> > beauty of the Apache Way is by focusing on individuals, this problem
> >> > becomes more apparent.  Of the new contributors you added that work
> for
> >> > Esgyn, which of them would realistically contribute to Trafodion if
> they
> >> > weren't employed by Esgyn?  Likewise, if Esgyn stopped building a
> product
> >> > on top of Trafodion, would those contributors remain?
> >> >
> >> > In addition, with such tight company affiliation, does the PMC
> represent
> >> a
> >> > reasonable cross section so that they can assert their iP claims?  For
> >> > example, based on looking at the usage of Trafodion vs Apache
> Trafodion
> >> on
> >> > https://esgyn.com/ would the PMC send an email to some
> representative of
> >> > Esgyn asking them to correct the branding errors? (To be clear, a
> cursory
> >> > look around the website only gives me one minor error, nothing crazy
> like
> >> > we've seen with other projects, you've done a great job keeping
> branding
> >> in
> >> > line with guidelines on both the ASF site and here)
> >> >
> >> > These are the reasons, at least from my POV, why community diversity
> is
> >> > important.  To be honest, I don't see any of the typical warning
> signs I
> >> > see with company backed ASF projects that I see here.  Its clear that
> its
> >> > ASF developed first.  I see great communication and collaboration via
> >> email
> >> > (heck, I wish my $dayjob communicated this well via email).
> >> >
> >> > So to answer your question, no, I don't think Trafodion needs more
> >> > mentors.  Maybe you need some help with the graduation process, but
> from
> >> my
> >> > POV you seem like TLP material to me.
> >>
> >> +1 to the above. I honestly still don't understand what is the problem
> >> with Trafodion
> >> (if any) that piling mentors up would be a good solution to.
> >>
> >
> > An extract from the original email should help answer that question. We
> > are very dependent on one mentor (St.Ack) at the moment.
> >
> >> We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
> > experience.
> >> But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our current
> >> mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five, two have
> since
> >> resigned due to other obligations.)
> >
> > Atanu
> >
> > --
> > __
> > *Atanu Mishra*
> > *Esgyn Corporation*
> > Milpitas, CA 95035
> > m: +1.408.219.9765
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Roman Shaposhnik]

Help me understand, why is this a mentor issue and not IPMC one?

Thanks,
Roman.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Atanu Mishra  wrote:
> Response below.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Roman Shaposhnik 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM, John D. Ament 
>> wrote:
>> > Dave,
>> >
>> > For some reason, I feel like I commented on that thread as well, but
>> don't
>> > see it, so I'm either thinking of something else or its inlined somewhere
>> > that I didn't see (e.g. the emails back and forth with Pierre).
>> >
>> > The question to always ask with company alliances is if someone would
>> > contribute to the project if they weren't paid by $dayjob to do so.  The
>> > beauty of the Apache Way is by focusing on individuals, this problem
>> > becomes more apparent.  Of the new contributors you added that work for
>> > Esgyn, which of them would realistically contribute to Trafodion if they
>> > weren't employed by Esgyn?  Likewise, if Esgyn stopped building a product
>> > on top of Trafodion, would those contributors remain?
>> >
>> > In addition, with such tight company affiliation, does the PMC represent
>> a
>> > reasonable cross section so that they can assert their iP claims?  For
>> > example, based on looking at the usage of Trafodion vs Apache Trafodion
>> on
>> > https://esgyn.com/ would the PMC send an email to some representative of
>> > Esgyn asking them to correct the branding errors? (To be clear, a cursory
>> > look around the website only gives me one minor error, nothing crazy like
>> > we've seen with other projects, you've done a great job keeping branding
>> in
>> > line with guidelines on both the ASF site and here)
>> >
>> > These are the reasons, at least from my POV, why community diversity is
>> > important.  To be honest, I don't see any of the typical warning signs I
>> > see with company backed ASF projects that I see here.  Its clear that its
>> > ASF developed first.  I see great communication and collaboration via
>> email
>> > (heck, I wish my $dayjob communicated this well via email).
>> >
>> > So to answer your question, no, I don't think Trafodion needs more
>> > mentors.  Maybe you need some help with the graduation process, but from
>> my
>> > POV you seem like TLP material to me.
>>
>> +1 to the above. I honestly still don't understand what is the problem
>> with Trafodion
>> (if any) that piling mentors up would be a good solution to.
>>
>
> An extract from the original email should help answer that question. We
> are very dependent on one mentor (St.Ack) at the moment.
>
>> We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
> experience.
>> But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our current
>> mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five, two have since
>> resigned due to other obligations.)
>
> Atanu
>
> --
> __
> *Atanu Mishra*
> *Esgyn Corporation*
> Milpitas, CA 95035
> m: +1.408.219.9765

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Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Atanu Mishra]

Response below.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Roman Shaposhnik 
wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM, John D. Ament 
> wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > For some reason, I feel like I commented on that thread as well, but
> don't
> > see it, so I'm either thinking of something else or its inlined somewhere
> > that I didn't see (e.g. the emails back and forth with Pierre).
> >
> > The question to always ask with company alliances is if someone would
> > contribute to the project if they weren't paid by $dayjob to do so.  The
> > beauty of the Apache Way is by focusing on individuals, this problem
> > becomes more apparent.  Of the new contributors you added that work for
> > Esgyn, which of them would realistically contribute to Trafodion if they
> > weren't employed by Esgyn?  Likewise, if Esgyn stopped building a product
> > on top of Trafodion, would those contributors remain?
> >
> > In addition, with such tight company affiliation, does the PMC represent
> a
> > reasonable cross section so that they can assert their iP claims?  For
> > example, based on looking at the usage of Trafodion vs Apache Trafodion
> on
> > https://esgyn.com/ would the PMC send an email to some representative of
> > Esgyn asking them to correct the branding errors? (To be clear, a cursory
> > look around the website only gives me one minor error, nothing crazy like
> > we've seen with other projects, you've done a great job keeping branding
> in
> > line with guidelines on both the ASF site and here)
> >
> > These are the reasons, at least from my POV, why community diversity is
> > important.  To be honest, I don't see any of the typical warning signs I
> > see with company backed ASF projects that I see here.  Its clear that its
> > ASF developed first.  I see great communication and collaboration via
> email
> > (heck, I wish my $dayjob communicated this well via email).
> >
> > So to answer your question, no, I don't think Trafodion needs more
> > mentors.  Maybe you need some help with the graduation process, but from
> my
> > POV you seem like TLP material to me.
>
> +1 to the above. I honestly still don't understand what is the problem
> with Trafodion
> (if any) that piling mentors up would be a good solution to.
>

​An extract from the original email should help answer that question. We
are very dependent on one mentor (St.Ack) at the moment.

​> We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
experience.
> But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our current
> mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five, two have since
> resigned due to other obligations.)

​Atanu

-- 
__
*Atanu Mishra*
*Esgyn Corporation*
Milpitas, CA 95035
m: +1.408.219.9765

Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:05 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
> Dave,
>
> For some reason, I feel like I commented on that thread as well, but don't
> see it, so I'm either thinking of something else or its inlined somewhere
> that I didn't see (e.g. the emails back and forth with Pierre).
>
> The question to always ask with company alliances is if someone would
> contribute to the project if they weren't paid by $dayjob to do so.  The
> beauty of the Apache Way is by focusing on individuals, this problem
> becomes more apparent.  Of the new contributors you added that work for
> Esgyn, which of them would realistically contribute to Trafodion if they
> weren't employed by Esgyn?  Likewise, if Esgyn stopped building a product
> on top of Trafodion, would those contributors remain?
>
> In addition, with such tight company affiliation, does the PMC represent a
> reasonable cross section so that they can assert their iP claims?  For
> example, based on looking at the usage of Trafodion vs Apache Trafodion on
> https://esgyn.com/ would the PMC send an email to some representative of
> Esgyn asking them to correct the branding errors? (To be clear, a cursory
> look around the website only gives me one minor error, nothing crazy like
> we've seen with other projects, you've done a great job keeping branding in
> line with guidelines on both the ASF site and here)
>
> These are the reasons, at least from my POV, why community diversity is
> important.  To be honest, I don't see any of the typical warning signs I
> see with company backed ASF projects that I see here.  Its clear that its
> ASF developed first.  I see great communication and collaboration via email
> (heck, I wish my $dayjob communicated this well via email).
>
> So to answer your question, no, I don't think Trafodion needs more
> mentors.  Maybe you need some help with the graduation process, but from my
> POV you seem like TLP material to me.

+1 to the above. I honestly still don't understand what is the problem
with Trafodion
(if any) that piling mentors up would be a good solution to.

Thanks,
Roman.

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RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Dave Birdsall]

Hi John,

Thanks for the comments. These help.

Speaking only for myself, I'm not far from retirement age and I'm likely to
continue contributing after I retire, simply because I've worked on this
code base for 20 years now and I love it. I'm always surprised to get paid
to do this stuff.

I'll take a look at the Esgyn web site for branding issues.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: John D. Ament [mailto:johndam...@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 4:05 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

Dave,

For some reason, I feel like I commented on that thread as well, but don't
see it, so I'm either thinking of something else or its inlined somewhere
that I didn't see (e.g. the emails back and forth with Pierre).

The question to always ask with company alliances is if someone would
contribute to the project if they weren't paid by $dayjob to do so.  The
beauty of the Apache Way is by focusing on individuals, this problem becomes
more apparent.  Of the new contributors you added that work for Esgyn, which
of them would realistically contribute to Trafodion if they weren't employed
by Esgyn?  Likewise, if Esgyn stopped building a product on top of
Trafodion, would those contributors remain?

In addition, with such tight company affiliation, does the PMC represent a
reasonable cross section so that they can assert their iP claims?  For
example, based on looking at the usage of Trafodion vs Apache Trafodion on
https://esgyn.com/ would the PMC send an email to some representative of
Esgyn asking them to correct the branding errors? (To be clear, a cursory
look around the website only gives me one minor error, nothing crazy like
we've seen with other projects, you've done a great job keeping branding in
line with guidelines on both the ASF site and here)

These are the reasons, at least from my POV, why community diversity is
important.  To be honest, I don't see any of the typical warning signs I see
with company backed ASF projects that I see here.  Its clear that its ASF
developed first.  I see great communication and collaboration via email
(heck, I wish my $dayjob communicated this well via email).

So to answer your question, no, I don't think Trafodion needs more mentors.
Maybe you need some help with the graduation process, but from my POV you
seem like TLP material to me.

John

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 5:02 PM Dave Birdsall <dave.birds...@esgyn.com>
wrote:

> John,
>
> When we first entered incubation, we had nine committers, all
> Hewlett-Packard employees. A couple of months later, four of those
> decamped to a new company, Esgyn Corporation, while the remainder
> either stayed with HP or moved on to other opportunities. The four
> have remained very active while the remaining five are mostly inactive.
>
> Since then we have added six more committers, of whom five are
> affiliated with Esgyn and one not.
>
> There are many more contributors that are active as well.
>
> Here's a list:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors.
> It's not complete; I can think of some contributors who are not
> listed. (We -- the Trafodion podling -- should fix that.)
>
> We recently had a discussion amongst ourselves concerning readiness
> for TLP.
> Community diversity is something we think we need to improve. Advice
> and help in this regard would be welcome.
>
> Dave
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John D. Ament [mailto:johndam...@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:33 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the very detailed report.  One comment, which I think I
> made earlier, is that we like to see how your community has grown.  So
> the numbers don't provide the full details.
>
> I'm curious, from your point of view, how close are you to graduating?
> Is your developer community diverse enough?
>
> John
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:27 PM Dave Birdsall
> <dave.birds...@esgyn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > The intended audience for our project are users in the Apache Hadoop
> > ecosystem looking for transactional and operational SQL. We provide
> > a transactional and operational SQL engine on top of Apache HBase,
> > with some support for non-transactional operation on Hive tables. By
> > operational, we mean to include large reporting queries that one
> > might do on a transactional database.
> >
> > Here's a pointer to our latest Podling Report (search for the string
> > "Trafodion"): https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/June2016
> >
> > So far we have accomplished two releases: 1.3.0 and 2.0.0 (which was
> > in discussion at the time the podling report was written).
> >
> > Ver

Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[John D. Ament]

Dave,

For some reason, I feel like I commented on that thread as well, but don't
see it, so I'm either thinking of something else or its inlined somewhere
that I didn't see (e.g. the emails back and forth with Pierre).

The question to always ask with company alliances is if someone would
contribute to the project if they weren't paid by $dayjob to do so.  The
beauty of the Apache Way is by focusing on individuals, this problem
becomes more apparent.  Of the new contributors you added that work for
Esgyn, which of them would realistically contribute to Trafodion if they
weren't employed by Esgyn?  Likewise, if Esgyn stopped building a product
on top of Trafodion, would those contributors remain?

In addition, with such tight company affiliation, does the PMC represent a
reasonable cross section so that they can assert their iP claims?  For
example, based on looking at the usage of Trafodion vs Apache Trafodion on
https://esgyn.com/ would the PMC send an email to some representative of
Esgyn asking them to correct the branding errors? (To be clear, a cursory
look around the website only gives me one minor error, nothing crazy like
we've seen with other projects, you've done a great job keeping branding in
line with guidelines on both the ASF site and here)

These are the reasons, at least from my POV, why community diversity is
important.  To be honest, I don't see any of the typical warning signs I
see with company backed ASF projects that I see here.  Its clear that its
ASF developed first.  I see great communication and collaboration via email
(heck, I wish my $dayjob communicated this well via email).

So to answer your question, no, I don't think Trafodion needs more
mentors.  Maybe you need some help with the graduation process, but from my
POV you seem like TLP material to me.

John

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 5:02 PM Dave Birdsall <dave.birds...@esgyn.com>
wrote:

> John,
>
> When we first entered incubation, we had nine committers, all
> Hewlett-Packard employees. A couple of months later, four of those decamped
> to a new company, Esgyn Corporation, while the remainder either stayed with
> HP or moved on to other opportunities. The four have remained very active
> while the remaining five are mostly inactive.
>
> Since then we have added six more committers, of whom five are affiliated
> with Esgyn and one not.
>
> There are many more contributors that are active as well.
>
> Here's a list:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors. It's
> not
> complete; I can think of some contributors who are not listed. (We -- the
> Trafodion podling -- should fix that.)
>
> We recently had a discussion amongst ourselves concerning readiness for
> TLP.
> Community diversity is something we think we need to improve. Advice and
> help in this regard would be welcome.
>
> Dave
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John D. Ament [mailto:johndam...@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:33 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the very detailed report.  One comment, which I think I made
> earlier, is that we like to see how your community has grown.  So the
> numbers don't provide the full details.
>
> I'm curious, from your point of view, how close are you to graduating?  Is
> your developer community diverse enough?
>
> John
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:27 PM Dave Birdsall <dave.birds...@esgyn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > The intended audience for our project are users in the Apache Hadoop
> > ecosystem looking for transactional and operational SQL. We provide a
> > transactional and operational SQL engine on top of Apache HBase, with
> > some support for non-transactional operation on Hive tables. By
> > operational, we mean to include large reporting queries that one might
> > do on a transactional database.
> >
> > Here's a pointer to our latest Podling Report (search for the string
> > "Trafodion"): https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/June2016
> >
> > So far we have accomplished two releases: 1.3.0 and 2.0.0 (which was
> > in discussion at the time the podling report was written).
> >
> > Very short-term objectives are we have a patch release 2.0.1 that
> > needs approval. Short-term we are likely to have a Release 2.1 within
> > the next few months.
> >
> > Long-term we hope to move to TLP. The biggest issue at the moment is
> > expanding our community, as most of the developers and active
> > committers are at one company.
> >
> > Our SDLC is a comprehensive branch model. We actively merge up any
> > patches to older branches onto the latest branch. We use git for our
> &g

Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Tom Barber]

ive
> committers
> > > are at one company.
> > >
> > > Our SDLC is a comprehensive branch model. We actively merge up any
> > patches
> > > to older branches onto the latest branch. We use git for our source
> > > control. We use Jenkins to automate build and test of changes before
> they
> > > are committed. There is a culture within the podling of quick and
> > thorough
> > > reviews of code changes. Small changes tend to be committed quickly
> while
> > > larger changes take longer. See
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-trafodion.
> > >
> > > We have produced a comprehensive set of documentation both of the
> project
> > > code itself and of the development process. The former can be found
> here
> > > http://trafodion.apache.org (see the Documentation tab), and the
> latter
> > in
> > > our wiki
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Apache+Trafodion+Hom
> > > e (see Trafodion Contributor Guide).
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgai...@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:06 PM
> > > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
> > >
> > > what have you accomplished thus far?
> > > what are your short-term objectives..(what do you need by the end of
> > > 2016)?
> > >
> > > what are the long term objectives?
> > > what is your SDLC...submit jira ..submit patch and testcase and hope
> > > integration works OR comprehensive branch cut for major new release and
> > > then hopefully merge sometime later
> > >
> > > who is the intended audience for Trafodion?
> > > Thanks Dave!
> > > Martin
> > > __
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: dave.birds...@esgyn.com
> > > > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:58:31 -0700
> > > > Subject: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
> > > > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > Hello Incubator community,
> > > >
> > > > The incubating Trafodion project needs more mentors. The project is
> in
> > > > reasonably good shape from an infrastructure and work-habits point of
> > > view.
> > > > We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
> > > experience.
> > > > But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our
> current
> > > > mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five, two have
> > > since
> > > > resigned due to other obligations.) Anyone game?
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > > Dave Birdsall (member of Trafodion podling PMC)
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Pierre Smits]

the development process. The former can be found here
> > http://trafodion.apache.org (see the Documentation tab), and the latter
> in
> > our wiki
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Apache+Trafodion+Hom
> > e (see Trafodion Contributor Guide).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgai...@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:06 PM
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
> >
> > what have you accomplished thus far?
> > what are your short-term objectives..(what do you need by the end of
> > 2016)?
> >
> > what are the long term objectives?
> > what is your SDLC...submit jira ..submit patch and testcase and hope
> > integration works OR comprehensive branch cut for major new release and
> > then hopefully merge sometime later
> >
> > who is the intended audience for Trafodion?
> > Thanks Dave!
> > Martin
> > __
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: dave.birds...@esgyn.com
> > > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:58:31 -0700
> > > Subject: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
> > > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > Hello Incubator community,
> > >
> > > The incubating Trafodion project needs more mentors. The project is in
> > > reasonably good shape from an infrastructure and work-habits point of
> > view.
> > > We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
> > experience.
> > > But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our current
> > > mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five, two have
> > since
> > > resigned due to other obligations.) Anyone game?
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Dave Birdsall (member of Trafodion podling PMC)
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Dave Birdsall]

John,

When we first entered incubation, we had nine committers, all
Hewlett-Packard employees. A couple of months later, four of those decamped
to a new company, Esgyn Corporation, while the remainder either stayed with
HP or moved on to other opportunities. The four have remained very active
while the remaining five are mostly inactive.

Since then we have added six more committers, of whom five are affiliated
with Esgyn and one not.

There are many more contributors that are active as well.

Here's a list:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Contributors. It's not
complete; I can think of some contributors who are not listed. (We -- the
Trafodion podling -- should fix that.)

We recently had a discussion amongst ourselves concerning readiness for TLP.
Community diversity is something we think we need to improve. Advice and
help in this regard would be welcome.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: John D. Ament [mailto:johndam...@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:33 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

Dave,

Thanks for the very detailed report.  One comment, which I think I made
earlier, is that we like to see how your community has grown.  So the
numbers don't provide the full details.

I'm curious, from your point of view, how close are you to graduating?  Is
your developer community diverse enough?

John

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:27 PM Dave Birdsall <dave.birds...@esgyn.com>
wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
> The intended audience for our project are users in the Apache Hadoop
> ecosystem looking for transactional and operational SQL. We provide a
> transactional and operational SQL engine on top of Apache HBase, with
> some support for non-transactional operation on Hive tables. By
> operational, we mean to include large reporting queries that one might
> do on a transactional database.
>
> Here's a pointer to our latest Podling Report (search for the string
> "Trafodion"): https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/June2016
>
> So far we have accomplished two releases: 1.3.0 and 2.0.0 (which was
> in discussion at the time the podling report was written).
>
> Very short-term objectives are we have a patch release 2.0.1 that
> needs approval. Short-term we are likely to have a Release 2.1 within
> the next few months.
>
> Long-term we hope to move to TLP. The biggest issue at the moment is
> expanding our community, as most of the developers and active
> committers are at one company.
>
> Our SDLC is a comprehensive branch model. We actively merge up any
> patches to older branches onto the latest branch. We use git for our
> source control. We use Jenkins to automate build and test of changes
> before they are committed. There is a culture within the podling of
> quick and thorough reviews of code changes. Small changes tend to be
> committed quickly while larger changes take longer. See
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-trafodion.
>
> We have produced a comprehensive set of documentation both of the
> project code itself and of the development process. The former can be
> found here http://trafodion.apache.org (see the Documentation tab),
> and the latter in our wiki
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Apache+Trafodion
> +Hom
> e (see Trafodion Contributor Guide).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgai...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:06 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
>
> what have you accomplished thus far?
> what are your short-term objectives..(what do you need by the end of
> 2016)?
>
> what are the long term objectives?
> what is your SDLC...submit jira ..submit patch and testcase and hope
> integration works OR comprehensive branch cut for major new release
> and then hopefully merge sometime later
>
> who is the intended audience for Trafodion?
> Thanks Dave!
> Martin
> __
>
>
>
> > From: dave.birds...@esgyn.com
> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:58:31 -0700
> > Subject: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Hello Incubator community,
> >
> > The incubating Trafodion project needs more mentors. The project is
> > in reasonably good shape from an infrastructure and work-habits
> > point of
> view.
> > We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
> experience.
> > But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our
> > current mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five,
> > two have
> since
> > resigned due to other obli

Re: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[John D. Ament]

Dave,

Thanks for the very detailed report.  One comment, which I think I made
earlier, is that we like to see how your community has grown.  So the
numbers don't provide the full details.

I'm curious, from your point of view, how close are you to graduating?  Is
your developer community diverse enough?

John

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:27 PM Dave Birdsall <dave.birds...@esgyn.com>
wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
> The intended audience for our project are users in the Apache Hadoop
> ecosystem looking for transactional and operational SQL. We provide a
> transactional and operational SQL engine on top of Apache HBase, with some
> support for non-transactional operation on Hive tables. By operational, we
> mean to include large reporting queries that one might do on a
> transactional database.
>
> Here's a pointer to our latest Podling Report (search for the string
> "Trafodion"): https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/June2016
>
> So far we have accomplished two releases: 1.3.0 and 2.0.0 (which was in
> discussion at the time the podling report was written).
>
> Very short-term objectives are we have a patch release 2.0.1 that needs
> approval. Short-term we are likely to have a Release 2.1 within the next
> few months.
>
> Long-term we hope to move to TLP. The biggest issue at the moment is
> expanding our community, as most of the developers and active committers
> are at one company.
>
> Our SDLC is a comprehensive branch model. We actively merge up any patches
> to older branches onto the latest branch. We use git for our source
> control. We use Jenkins to automate build and test of changes before they
> are committed. There is a culture within the podling of quick and thorough
> reviews of code changes. Small changes tend to be committed quickly while
> larger changes take longer. See
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-trafodion.
>
> We have produced a comprehensive set of documentation both of the project
> code itself and of the development process. The former can be found here
> http://trafodion.apache.org (see the Documentation tab), and the latter in
> our wiki
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Apache+Trafodion+Hom
> e (see Trafodion Contributor Guide).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgai...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:06 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
>
> what have you accomplished thus far?
> what are your short-term objectives..(what do you need by the end of
> 2016)?
>
> what are the long term objectives?
> what is your SDLC...submit jira ..submit patch and testcase and hope
> integration works OR comprehensive branch cut for major new release and
> then hopefully merge sometime later
>
> who is the intended audience for Trafodion?
> Thanks Dave!
> Martin
> __
>
>
>
> > From: dave.birds...@esgyn.com
> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:58:31 -0700
> > Subject: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Hello Incubator community,
> >
> > The incubating Trafodion project needs more mentors. The project is in
> > reasonably good shape from an infrastructure and work-habits point of
> view.
> > We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
> experience.
> > But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our current
> > mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five, two have
> since
> > resigned due to other obligations.) Anyone game?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Dave Birdsall (member of Trafodion podling PMC)
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Dave Birdsall]

Hi Martin,

The intended audience for our project are users in the Apache Hadoop
ecosystem looking for transactional and operational SQL. We provide a
transactional and operational SQL engine on top of Apache HBase, with some
support for non-transactional operation on Hive tables. By operational, we
mean to include large reporting queries that one might do on a
transactional database.

Here's a pointer to our latest Podling Report (search for the string
"Trafodion"): https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/June2016

So far we have accomplished two releases: 1.3.0 and 2.0.0 (which was in
discussion at the time the podling report was written).

Very short-term objectives are we have a patch release 2.0.1 that needs
approval. Short-term we are likely to have a Release 2.1 within the next
few months.

Long-term we hope to move to TLP. The biggest issue at the moment is
expanding our community, as most of the developers and active committers
are at one company.

Our SDLC is a comprehensive branch model. We actively merge up any patches
to older branches onto the latest branch. We use git for our source
control. We use Jenkins to automate build and test of changes before they
are committed. There is a culture within the podling of quick and thorough
reviews of code changes. Small changes tend to be committed quickly while
larger changes take longer. See
https://github.com/apache/incubator-trafodion.

We have produced a comprehensive set of documentation both of the project
code itself and of the development process. The former can be found here
http://trafodion.apache.org (see the Documentation tab), and the latter in
our wiki
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/TRAFODION/Apache+Trafodion+Hom
e (see Trafodion Contributor Guide).

Thanks,

Dave

-Original Message-
From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgai...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:06 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

what have you accomplished thus far?
what are your short-term objectives..(what do you need by the end of
2016)?

what are the long term objectives?
what is your SDLC...submit jira ..submit patch and testcase and hope
integration works OR comprehensive branch cut for major new release and
then hopefully merge sometime later

who is the intended audience for Trafodion?
Thanks Dave!
Martin
__



> From: dave.birds...@esgyn.com
> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:58:31 -0700
> Subject: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>
> Hello Incubator community,
>
> The incubating Trafodion project needs more mentors. The project is in
> reasonably good shape from an infrastructure and work-habits point of
view.
> We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that
experience.
> But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our current
> mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five, two have
since
> resigned due to other obligations.) Anyone game?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Dave Birdsall (member of Trafodion podling PMC)

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

RE: Trafodion podling needs more mentors

[Martin Gainty]

what have you accomplished thus far?
what are your short-term objectives..(what do you need by the end of 2016)?

what are the long term objectives?
what is your SDLC...submit jira ..submit patch and testcase and hope 
integration works OR
comprehensive branch cut for major new release and then hopefully merge 
sometime later

who is the intended audience for Trafodion?
Thanks Dave!
Martin 
__ 



> From: dave.birds...@esgyn.com
> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:58:31 -0700
> Subject: Trafodion podling needs more mentors
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> 
> Hello Incubator community,
> 
> The incubating Trafodion project needs more mentors. The project is in
> reasonably good shape from an infrastructure and work-habits point of view.
> We have done two releases now, learning many lessons from that experience.
> But we need more help checking out our release candidates. Our current
> mentors have been pressed for time. (We started with five, two have since
> resigned due to other obligations.) Anyone game?
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Dave Birdsall (member of Trafodion podling PMC)