Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
Hi, > Besides, the maturity model is applied for all ASF projects and under the > management of ComDev pmc. > > Shall we cc this thread to dev@community.a.o or start a new thread after we > have a consensus within the Incubator first? I had intended to bring it up on dev@community.a.o for refinement and discussion, but unfortunately, I did not do so. It is probably overdue to do so. Kind Regards, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
cc @Shane Here is a related thread we ever initialized. I'm trying to find some time to pick it up, but yet to achieve it. Best, tison. tison 于2023年12月29日周五 15:21写道： > Besides, the maturity model is applied for all ASF projects and under the > management of ComDev pmc. > > Shall we cc this thread to dev@community.a.o or start a new thread after > we have a consensus within the Incubator first? > > Best, > tison. > > > tison 于2023年12月29日 周五12:58写道： > >> > This varies from project to project: >> > 1. Some projects have PMC members working at a company who use their >> trademark, and they make sure that things are correctly done. >> > 2. Some projects have people who actively look out for these types of >> issues and report them. >> > 3. Some projects are more active and set up automated Google searches >> and the like. >> > 4. Not all issues occur on web pages. Some of these issues arise at >> conferences or 3rd party events and are often noticed by PMC members or ASF >> members. >> >> Could you name projects of 3? "Some" is hard to follow, if there is a >> concrete podling/TLP does the thing correctly, we can reuse the >> workflow. >> >> > Yes, in most cases, the PMC should spend time addressing it. >> >> Could you name projects that do well in this direction? >> >> > how the project wishes to implement this is up to them. >> >> As mentors, we should help the podling to follow certain policies, >> either we can verify it by actionable check items or references. >> Otherwise it's totally subjective according to a member's >> interpretation it and it can increase the burden. >> >> Looking at the policy, it writes[1]: >> >> > COMPLY WITH APACHE BRAND POLICY >> > All PMCs must to comply with the Apache Project Branding Requirements. >> If your project does not comply, or is having issues in determining >> compliance, including a recognition of this set of PMC responsibilities to >> handle brand issues, work with trademarks@ to resolve the issue. >> > Much as complying with Apache legal policy to ensure that our software >> is safely covered under our license, projects must follow the branding >> requirements to ensure that we maintain our projects' brands and the Apache >> brand - and public reputations - for the future benefit of all of Apache >> projects. >> >> So how a PMC complies with the policy is that you should comply with >> the policy .. circular definition. >> >> Of course, there are other scattered docs having sentences on this >> topic, but since we are currently talking about this, we'd better >> foster a clear actionable guideline, or at lest feeling how a podling >> suffers when they are searching these sentences. >> >> We don't stop podling by requiring them comply with guidelines, we >> help them to follow. >> >> Best, >> tison. >> >> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility#compliance >> >> tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:39写道： >> > >> > > TB50 Any existing previous domain names are in control of the PMC. >> > >> > This is hard to follow. If the domain names are under the donating >> > compay's top domain, said if there is a foo.google.com, shall the PMC >> > take control of Google? >> > >> > > TB60 Any existing trademarks have been or are in the process of being >> transferred to the ASF. >> > >> > Just in case the trademarks are donated to ASF in the proposal. Given >> > Ignite as an example, GridGain doesn't donate its "GridGain InMemory >> > Platform" trademark but choose a new trademark "Ignite". So "GridGain" >> > trademark is still held by GridGain Systems. >> > >> > I believe this process should be done with the signed SGAs so if SGAs >> > are signed properly, this guideline is followed. >> > >> > Best, >> > tison. >> > >> > tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:33写道： >> > > >> > > >> It seems the updated podling report template has not had the >> impact it was hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. >> > > >> > > > For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's >> report, >> > > > the (P)PMC includes a section on what checks they did and if they >> > > > found any 3rdparty misuse. >> > > >> > > And this report to be included for TLPs also. Podlings are to be a >> > > TLP. Although we don't use TLP as an evidence for what to do >> > > incorrectly, if a TLP does the right thing, we should refer it as an >> > > example. Barely policy is hard to follow. >> > > >> > > The original podling report template asks "Is the PPMC managing the >> > > podling's brand / trademarks?" and a podling would answer YES because >> > > nothing is known to change the answer :D >> > > >> > > Best, >> > > tison. >> > > >> > > tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:25写道： >> > > > >> > > > Thanks for starting this thread. As we actually evaluate the >> maturity >> > > > at how the podling complies with trademarks and branding, we'd >> better >> > > > provide certain guidelines for podlings to follow. >> > > > >> > > > I can understand TB10 TB20 TB30 after the recent discussions, but >> >
Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
Besides, the maturity model is applied for all ASF projects and under the management of ComDev pmc. Shall we cc this thread to dev@community.a.o or start a new thread after we have a consensus within the Incubator first? Best, tison. tison 于2023年12月29日 周五12:58写道： > > This varies from project to project: > > 1. Some projects have PMC members working at a company who use their > trademark, and they make sure that things are correctly done. > > 2. Some projects have people who actively look out for these types of > issues and report them. > > 3. Some projects are more active and set up automated Google searches > and the like. > > 4. Not all issues occur on web pages. Some of these issues arise at > conferences or 3rd party events and are often noticed by PMC members or ASF > members. > > Could you name projects of 3? "Some" is hard to follow, if there is a > concrete podling/TLP does the thing correctly, we can reuse the > workflow. > > > Yes, in most cases, the PMC should spend time addressing it. > > Could you name projects that do well in this direction? > > > how the project wishes to implement this is up to them. > > As mentors, we should help the podling to follow certain policies, > either we can verify it by actionable check items or references. > Otherwise it's totally subjective according to a member's > interpretation it and it can increase the burden. > > Looking at the policy, it writes[1]: > > > COMPLY WITH APACHE BRAND POLICY > > All PMCs must to comply with the Apache Project Branding Requirements. > If your project does not comply, or is having issues in determining > compliance, including a recognition of this set of PMC responsibilities to > handle brand issues, work with trademarks@ to resolve the issue. > > Much as complying with Apache legal policy to ensure that our software > is safely covered under our license, projects must follow the branding > requirements to ensure that we maintain our projects' brands and the Apache > brand - and public reputations - for the future benefit of all of Apache > projects. > > So how a PMC complies with the policy is that you should comply with > the policy .. circular definition. > > Of course, there are other scattered docs having sentences on this > topic, but since we are currently talking about this, we'd better > foster a clear actionable guideline, or at lest feeling how a podling > suffers when they are searching these sentences. > > We don't stop podling by requiring them comply with guidelines, we > help them to follow. > > Best, > tison. > > [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility#compliance > > tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:39写道： > > > > > TB50 Any existing previous domain names are in control of the PMC. > > > > This is hard to follow. If the domain names are under the donating > > compay's top domain, said if there is a foo.google.com, shall the PMC > > take control of Google? > > > > > TB60 Any existing trademarks have been or are in the process of being > transferred to the ASF. > > > > Just in case the trademarks are donated to ASF in the proposal. Given > > Ignite as an example, GridGain doesn't donate its "GridGain InMemory > > Platform" trademark but choose a new trademark "Ignite". So "GridGain" > > trademark is still held by GridGain Systems. > > > > I believe this process should be done with the signed SGAs so if SGAs > > are signed properly, this guideline is followed. > > > > Best, > > tison. > > > > tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:33写道： > > > > > > >> It seems the updated podling report template has not had the impact > it was hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. > > > > > > > For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's > report, > > > > the (P)PMC includes a section on what checks they did and if they > > > > found any 3rdparty misuse. > > > > > > And this report to be included for TLPs also. Podlings are to be a > > > TLP. Although we don't use TLP as an evidence for what to do > > > incorrectly, if a TLP does the right thing, we should refer it as an > > > example. Barely policy is hard to follow. > > > > > > The original podling report template asks "Is the PPMC managing the > > > podling's brand / trademarks?" and a podling would answer YES because > > > nothing is known to change the answer :D > > > > > > Best, > > > tison. > > > > > > tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:25写道： > > > > > > > > Thanks for starting this thread. As we actually evaluate the maturity > > > > at how the podling complies with trademarks and branding, we'd better > > > > provide certain guidelines for podlings to follow. > > > > > > > > I can understand TB10 TB20 TB30 after the recent discussions, but > > > > perhaps it is still helpful if we extend the comments with more > > > > examples as in the discussions - it makes what to do and what not to > > > > do much more clear. > > > > > > > > > TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its > trademarks, addressing any instances of
Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
> This varies from project to project: > 1. Some projects have PMC members working at a company who use their > trademark, and they make sure that things are correctly done. > 2. Some projects have people who actively look out for these types of issues > and report them. > 3. Some projects are more active and set up automated Google searches and the > like. > 4. Not all issues occur on web pages. Some of these issues arise at > conferences or 3rd party events and are often noticed by PMC members or ASF > members. Could you name projects of 3? "Some" is hard to follow, if there is a concrete podling/TLP does the thing correctly, we can reuse the workflow. > Yes, in most cases, the PMC should spend time addressing it. Could you name projects that do well in this direction? > how the project wishes to implement this is up to them. As mentors, we should help the podling to follow certain policies, either we can verify it by actionable check items or references. Otherwise it's totally subjective according to a member's interpretation it and it can increase the burden. Looking at the policy, it writes[1]: > COMPLY WITH APACHE BRAND POLICY > All PMCs must to comply with the Apache Project Branding Requirements. If > your project does not comply, or is having issues in determining compliance, > including a recognition of this set of PMC responsibilities to handle brand > issues, work with trademarks@ to resolve the issue. > Much as complying with Apache legal policy to ensure that our software is > safely covered under our license, projects must follow the branding > requirements to ensure that we maintain our projects' brands and the Apache > brand - and public reputations - for the future benefit of all of Apache > projects. So how a PMC complies with the policy is that you should comply with the policy .. circular definition. Of course, there are other scattered docs having sentences on this topic, but since we are currently talking about this, we'd better foster a clear actionable guideline, or at lest feeling how a podling suffers when they are searching these sentences. We don't stop podling by requiring them comply with guidelines, we help them to follow. Best, tison. [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility#compliance tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:39写道： > > > TB50 Any existing previous domain names are in control of the PMC. > > This is hard to follow. If the domain names are under the donating > compay's top domain, said if there is a foo.google.com, shall the PMC > take control of Google? > > > TB60 Any existing trademarks have been or are in the process of being > > transferred to the ASF. > > Just in case the trademarks are donated to ASF in the proposal. Given > Ignite as an example, GridGain doesn't donate its "GridGain InMemory > Platform" trademark but choose a new trademark "Ignite". So "GridGain" > trademark is still held by GridGain Systems. > > I believe this process should be done with the signed SGAs so if SGAs > are signed properly, this guideline is followed. > > Best, > tison. > > tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:33写道： > > > > >> It seems the updated podling report template has not had the impact it > > >> was hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. > > > > > For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's report, > > > the (P)PMC includes a section on what checks they did and if they > > > found any 3rdparty misuse. > > > > And this report to be included for TLPs also. Podlings are to be a > > TLP. Although we don't use TLP as an evidence for what to do > > incorrectly, if a TLP does the right thing, we should refer it as an > > example. Barely policy is hard to follow. > > > > The original podling report template asks "Is the PPMC managing the > > podling's brand / trademarks?" and a podling would answer YES because > > nothing is known to change the answer :D > > > > Best, > > tison. > > > > tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:25写道： > > > > > > Thanks for starting this thread. As we actually evaluate the maturity > > > at how the podling complies with trademarks and branding, we'd better > > > provide certain guidelines for podlings to follow. > > > > > > I can understand TB10 TB20 TB30 after the recent discussions, but > > > perhaps it is still helpful if we extend the comments with more > > > examples as in the discussions - it makes what to do and what not to > > > do much more clear. > > > > > > > TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its > > > > trademarks, addressing any instances of misuse. > > > > > > Do you have some examples of how podlings or TLPs perform this today? > > > It's unclear to me how I can understand and follow this guideline: > > > Shall the PMC check over the Internet? Is any 3rd party even with a > > > very low page rank should the PMC spend time to address it; or else > > > the PMC fail to meet this guideline? > > > > > > For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's
Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
HI, >> TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its >> trademarks, addressing any instances of misuse. > > Do you have some examples of how podlings or TLPs perform this today? This varies from project to project: - Some projects have PMC members working at a company who use their trademark, and they make sure that things are correctly done. - Some projects have people who actively look out for these types of issues and report them. - Some projects are more active and set up automated Google searches and the like. - Not all issues occur on web pages. Some of these issues arise at conferences or 3rd party events and are often noticed by PMC members or ASF members. > It's unclear to me how I can understand and follow this guideline: > Shall the PMC check over the Internet? Is any 3rd party even with a > very low page rank should the PMC spend time to address it; or else > the PMC fail to meet this guideline? Yes, in most cases, the PMC should spend time addressing it. This is described in full at [1], how the project wishes to implement this is up to them. Kind Regards, Justin 1. https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility
Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
> TB50 Any existing previous domain names are in control of the PMC. This is hard to follow. If the domain names are under the donating compay's top domain, said if there is a foo.google.com, shall the PMC take control of Google? > TB60 Any existing trademarks have been or are in the process of being > transferred to the ASF. Just in case the trademarks are donated to ASF in the proposal. Given Ignite as an example, GridGain doesn't donate its "GridGain InMemory Platform" trademark but choose a new trademark "Ignite". So "GridGain" trademark is still held by GridGain Systems. I believe this process should be done with the signed SGAs so if SGAs are signed properly, this guideline is followed. Best, tison. tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:33写道： > > >> It seems the updated podling report template has not had the impact it was > >> hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. > > > For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's report, > > the (P)PMC includes a section on what checks they did and if they > > found any 3rdparty misuse. > > And this report to be included for TLPs also. Podlings are to be a > TLP. Although we don't use TLP as an evidence for what to do > incorrectly, if a TLP does the right thing, we should refer it as an > example. Barely policy is hard to follow. > > The original podling report template asks "Is the PPMC managing the > podling's brand / trademarks?" and a podling would answer YES because > nothing is known to change the answer :D > > Best, > tison. > > tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:25写道： > > > > Thanks for starting this thread. As we actually evaluate the maturity > > at how the podling complies with trademarks and branding, we'd better > > provide certain guidelines for podlings to follow. > > > > I can understand TB10 TB20 TB30 after the recent discussions, but > > perhaps it is still helpful if we extend the comments with more > > examples as in the discussions - it makes what to do and what not to > > do much more clear. > > > > > TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its > > > trademarks, addressing any instances of misuse. > > > > Do you have some examples of how podlings or TLPs perform this today? > > It's unclear to me how I can understand and follow this guideline: > > Shall the PMC check over the Internet? Is any 3rd party even with a > > very low page rank should the PMC spend time to address it; or else > > the PMC fail to meet this guideline? > > > > For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's report, > > the (P)PMC includes a section on what checks they did and if they > > found any 3rdparty misuse. > > > > Best, > > tison. > > > > Justin Mclean 于2023年12月29日周五 10:54写道： > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > It seems the updated podling report template has not had the impact it > > > was hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. > > > > > > It was pointed out on the trademark list that the current maturity model > > > [1] is missing checks for trademarks and branding. > > > > > > Here is my first attempt at it; feedback, thoughts, etc, are welcome. > > > > > > Trademarks and Branding > > > TB10 The project correctly uses “Apache Foo” as the project name where > > > required. > > > TB20 The project complies with ASF’s branding and trademark policy in all > > > places it controls.* > > > TB30 The project resolves any potential trademark issue pointed out to it > > > promptly. > > > TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its > > > trademarks, addressing any instances of misuse. > > > > > > * Including its website, documentation, 3rd party download services or > > > any other locations. > > > > > > With some changes and increased focus on security, we might want to > > > review the existing points that mention security. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > Justin > > > > > > 1. > > > https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
>> It seems the updated podling report template has not had the impact it was >> hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. > For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's report, > the (P)PMC includes a section on what checks they did and if they > found any 3rdparty misuse. And this report to be included for TLPs also. Podlings are to be a TLP. Although we don't use TLP as an evidence for what to do incorrectly, if a TLP does the right thing, we should refer it as an example. Barely policy is hard to follow. The original podling report template asks "Is the PPMC managing the podling's brand / trademarks?" and a podling would answer YES because nothing is known to change the answer :D Best, tison. tison 于2023年12月29日周五 12:25写道： > > Thanks for starting this thread. As we actually evaluate the maturity > at how the podling complies with trademarks and branding, we'd better > provide certain guidelines for podlings to follow. > > I can understand TB10 TB20 TB30 after the recent discussions, but > perhaps it is still helpful if we extend the comments with more > examples as in the discussions - it makes what to do and what not to > do much more clear. > > > TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its > > trademarks, addressing any instances of misuse. > > Do you have some examples of how podlings or TLPs perform this today? > It's unclear to me how I can understand and follow this guideline: > Shall the PMC check over the Internet? Is any 3rd party even with a > very low page rank should the PMC spend time to address it; or else > the PMC fail to meet this guideline? > > For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's report, > the (P)PMC includes a section on what checks they did and if they > found any 3rdparty misuse. > > Best, > tison. > > Justin Mclean 于2023年12月29日周五 10:54写道： > > > > Hi, > > > > It seems the updated podling report template has not had the impact it was > > hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. > > > > It was pointed out on the trademark list that the current maturity model > > [1] is missing checks for trademarks and branding. > > > > Here is my first attempt at it; feedback, thoughts, etc, are welcome. > > > > Trademarks and Branding > > TB10 The project correctly uses “Apache Foo” as the project name where > > required. > > TB20 The project complies with ASF’s branding and trademark policy in all > > places it controls.* > > TB30 The project resolves any potential trademark issue pointed out to it > > promptly. > > TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its > > trademarks, addressing any instances of misuse. > > > > * Including its website, documentation, 3rd party download services or any > > other locations. > > > > With some changes and increased focus on security, we might want to review > > the existing points that mention security. > > > > Kind Regards, > > Justin > > > > 1. > > https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
HI, I’d also suggest adding: TB50 Any existing previous domain names are in control of the PMC. TB60 Any existing trademarks have been or are in the process of being transferred to the ASF. Kind Regards, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
Thanks for starting this thread. As we actually evaluate the maturity at how the podling complies with trademarks and branding, we'd better provide certain guidelines for podlings to follow. I can understand TB10 TB20 TB30 after the recent discussions, but perhaps it is still helpful if we extend the comments with more examples as in the discussions - it makes what to do and what not to do much more clear. > TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its trademarks, > addressing any instances of misuse. Do you have some examples of how podlings or TLPs perform this today? It's unclear to me how I can understand and follow this guideline: Shall the PMC check over the Internet? Is any 3rd party even with a very low page rank should the PMC spend time to address it; or else the PMC fail to meet this guideline? For example, a doable mechanism is that, during each quarter's report, the (P)PMC includes a section on what checks they did and if they found any 3rdparty misuse. Best, tison. Justin Mclean 于2023年12月29日周五 10:54写道： > > Hi, > > It seems the updated podling report template has not had the impact it was > hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. > > It was pointed out on the trademark list that the current maturity model [1] > is missing checks for trademarks and branding. > > Here is my first attempt at it; feedback, thoughts, etc, are welcome. > > Trademarks and Branding > TB10 The project correctly uses “Apache Foo” as the project name where > required. > TB20 The project complies with ASF’s branding and trademark policy in all > places it controls.* > TB30 The project resolves any potential trademark issue pointed out to it > promptly. > TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its trademarks, > addressing any instances of misuse. > > * Including its website, documentation, 3rd party download services or any > other locations. > > With some changes and increased focus on security, we might want to review > the existing points that mention security. > > Kind Regards, > Justin > > 1. https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Update project maturity model to include trademark and branding?
Hi, It seems the updated podling report template has not had the impact it was hoped to have around issues of branding and trademarks. It was pointed out on the trademark list that the current maturity model [1] is missing checks for trademarks and branding. Here is my first attempt at it; feedback, thoughts, etc, are welcome. Trademarks and Branding TB10 The project correctly uses “Apache Foo” as the project name where required. TB20 The project complies with ASF’s branding and trademark policy in all places it controls.* TB30 The project resolves any potential trademark issue pointed out to it promptly. TB40 The project performs some monitoring of 3rd party use of its trademarks, addressing any instances of misuse. * Including its website, documentation, 3rd party download services or any other locations. With some changes and increased focus on security, we might want to review the existing points that mention security. Kind Regards, Justin 1. https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
