Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Vidar Braut Haarr]

http://www.red-bean.com/cvs2cl/

A Perl script that can generate HTML, XML or PlainText ChangeLog's from CVS
messages.

Setting up a cron-job using cvs2cl.pl to generate XML and then utilizing
XSLT to make a HTML page could be a nice solution.

Vidar Braut Haarr
CoreTrek A/S

"Programmers don't die,
they just GOSUB without RETURN."

- Original Message -
From: "Jon Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"


> on 12/12/01 3:19 PM, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog...
besides the
> > ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is necessary).
>
> Eewww...XSLT...
>
> How about being able to transform it into a ChangeLog.txt and a
> ChangeLog.html?
>
> -jon
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
>
>


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Re: Another Comment for Apache.org

[Punky Tse]

From: "Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> See what you got with your flame fest? Now Frans has started making jokes!

When seeing people flame each other, they act like a child.  But when they
are talking about things technically, they are very professional.

So I love this place.  Watching this is a lot of fun.. ;-)

Punky






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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Daniel Rall]

"Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> My point was that its not painful at all, which I think was your contention.

Yeah, the XML formatting is extremely light, and the Ant/Anakia build
does the transformation with the execution of a single target.  I'm
generally not big on XML, but the lightweight format used by most
Jakarta projects in conjuction with Anakia is working very well.

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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 12/12/01 6:19 PM, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> We use XML format via Anakia in velocity-land and don't have any problems...
>> I don't really mind.
> 
> 
> Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog... besides the
> ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is necessary).

In our case, the changelog is documentation, so it goes with the rest, which
is in XML.

Don't invert the causality - we didn't decide we needed an XML changelog, we
needed a changelog for a project that has its docs in XML, so XML it was...

My point was that its not painful at all, which I think was your contention.

geir

> 
> - -- 
> Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
>Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
>   Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Web - http://relativity.yi.org/
> 
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>   -- Me
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System and Software Consulting
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the
freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin



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RE: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Scott Sanders]

> on 12/12/01 3:19 PM, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog... 
> > besides the ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is 
> > necessary).
> 
> Eewww...XSLT...

:) To each his own.

> 
> How about being able to transform it into a ChangeLog.txt and 
> a ChangeLog.html?

Exactly.

Scott
> 
> -jon


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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Jon Stevens]

on 12/12/01 3:19 PM, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog... besides the
> ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is necessary).

Eewww...XSLT...

How about being able to transform it into a ChangeLog.txt and a
ChangeLog.html?

-jon


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RE: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Scott Sanders]

> > We use XML format via Anakia in velocity-land and don't have any 
> > problems... I don't really mind.
> 
> 
> Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based 
> changelog... besides the ability to XSLT it into html (I 
> don't think this is necessary).
> 
http://jakarta.apache.org/cactus/changes.html

Vs.

http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/CHANGES_2.0

I like both ;-)

But, I happen to see more value in the pretty one :)  Makes me happy to
see that bugs were smashed (the hammer), and other such niceties.  And
the advantage of the XML one is that the text one is easily producable,
if necessary.

Scott Sanders


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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

"Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> We use XML format via Anakia in velocity-land and don't have any problems...
> I don't really mind.


Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog... besides the
ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is necessary).

- -- 
Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
 Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

Technology is the catalyst for Utopia.
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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

We use XML format via Anakia in velocity-land and don't have any problems...
I don't really mind.


On 12/12/01 5:14 PM, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Paul Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> Is their a standard or common "Change Log" and "To Do" format for Jakarta
>> projects?  I would like to add a change log to the Jetspeed project.
> 
> No.  I have seen a lot of people use XML changelogs.  This is WAY overkill
> IMO.
> Just use text an a GNU style format.
> 
> 
> Version x.x
> - ---
> 
> * changed foo so that it is now bar
> 
>> It appears the Cocoon project uses Stylebook.  Jakarta projects use Anakia,
>> but I have not found any macros in Jakarta-site2 that reference a Change Log
>> or To Do list.
> 
> I predict that they will become sick of working with an XML format  :)
> 
> Kevin

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"He who throws mud only loses ground." - Fat Albert


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RE: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Scott Sanders]

> > Jakarta projects use
> > Anakia, but I have not found any macros in Jakarta-site2 that 
> > reference a Change Log or To Do list.
> > 
> > Paul Spencer
> 
> +1.
> 
> Feel free to add some...
> 
> -jon

I kind of liked what Vincent was doing with Cactus.  You should check
that out...

Scott Sanders


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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Paul Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Is their a standard or common "Change Log" and "To Do" format for Jakarta
> projects?  I would like to add a change log to the Jetspeed project.

No.  I have seen a lot of people use XML changelogs.  This is WAY overkill IMO.
Just use text an a GNU style format.


Version x.x
- ---

* changed foo so that it is now bar

> It appears the Cocoon project uses Stylebook.  Jakarta projects use Anakia,
> but I have not found any macros in Jakarta-site2 that reference a Change Log
> or To Do list.

I predict that they will become sick of working with an XML format  :)

Kevin

- -- 
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Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Jon Stevens]

on 12/12/01 2:05 PM, "Paul Spencer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Jakarta projects use
> Anakia, but I have not found any macros in Jakarta-site2 that reference
> a Change Log or To Do list.
> 
> Paul Spencer

+1. 

Feel free to add some...

-jon


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Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"

[Paul Spencer]

Is their a standard or common "Change Log" and "To Do" format for 
Jakarta projects?  I would like to add a change log to the Jetspeed project.

It appears the Cocoon project uses Stylebook.  Jakarta projects use 
Anakia, but I have not found any macros in Jakarta-site2 that reference 
a Change Log or To Do list.

Paul Spencer


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RE: Another Comment for Apache.org

[Paulo Gaspar]

He might have used automatic translation. I recently had to read a Japanese
web page translated to English that way and it sounded just the same.

Have fun,
Paulo

> -Original Message-
> From: Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:06 PM
>
>
> See what you got with your flame fest? Now Frans has started making jokes!
>
> I must agree with Jon, this mail does not make much sense. But then, who
> cares.
>
> Alex.
>
> > -Mensaje original-
> > De: Frans Thamura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Enviado el: miércoles 12 de diciembre de 2001 18:21
> > Para: Jakarta General List
> > Asunto: Another Comment for Apache.org
> >
> >
> > > "The best place to post a question like this is ..., where there are
> > > more people to help you."
> > >
> >
> > I like this,, very wise sentence...
> >
> > When we help each other, we will smarter, and life will be enjoyable..
> >
> > I discussed this with my friend, if the and idiot (not a
> > dummies, remember
> > the for dummies book), can contribute a good code to a
> > project..what happen
> > in the future of this book..
> >
> > Who will kick Bill's ass, you as a commiter or that idiot people..?
> >
> > Sorry this is only a joke..
> >
> > I join the mailing list, in last 2 years, just for add
> > friendship, and i
> > think i like this.. but sorry for my brain, may be i am not
> > talent like all
> > of you Jons..
> >
> > But, if you life in my country (a specialist cannot life here), as a
> > technical, you will understand it..haha.. but life will go on
> > my friends.
> >
> > Frans
> >
> >
> > _
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
>


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RE: Another Comment for Apache.org

[Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro]

See what you got with your flame fest? Now Frans has started making jokes!

I must agree with Jon, this mail does not make much sense. But then, who
cares.

Alex.

> -Mensaje original-
> De: Frans Thamura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Enviado el: miércoles 12 de diciembre de 2001 18:21
> Para: Jakarta General List
> Asunto: Another Comment for Apache.org
> 
> 
> > "The best place to post a question like this is ..., where there are
> > more people to help you."
> >
> 
> I like this,, very wise sentence...
> 
> When we help each other, we will smarter, and life will be enjoyable..
> 
> I discussed this with my friend, if the and idiot (not a 
> dummies, remember
> the for dummies book), can contribute a good code to a 
> project..what happen
> in the future of this book..
> 
> Who will kick Bill's ass, you as a commiter or that idiot people..?
> 
> Sorry this is only a joke..
> 
> I join the mailing list, in last 2 years, just for add 
> friendship, and i
> think i like this.. but sorry for my brain, may be i am not 
> talent like all
> of you Jons..
> 
> But, if you life in my country (a specialist cannot life here), as a
> technical, you will understand it..haha.. but life will go on 
> my friends.
> 
> Frans
> 
> 
> _
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   

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Re: Comment for Apache.org

[Sam Ruby]

Frans Thamura wrote:
>
> JBoss (Marc) wants to full time in JBoss, buy commercialing Documentation,
> and want to add forum to his web site (we will see it soon).. because he
> don't agree with Apache model (volunteer). I think that is true..

Remember that companies come and go too.  I don't believe that the important 
distinction is between volunteer and commercial.

What is important is the community that forms around the piece of software.  JBoss 
clearly has such a community.

> This is the hierarchy..
> PMC (We called it solution leader) --> Program Manager --> Project
> Manager --> Project Leader (always 2, Techical Leader, and Project
> Coordinator / Documentator --) --> Commiter (Senior Developer) -->
> Contributor (Developer) --> Developer.

Apache is not a hierarchy in that sense.

Each project is largely independent.  From an Apache perspective, the
committers on the project are peers and represent the top of their own
hierarchy.   Undoubtably, within projects, informal arrangements are formed
and leaders emerge, and such arrangements evolve over time.

The Jakarta PMC provides a minimum of oversight.  There are a few legal and
licensing issues that will get us involved quickly, but we generally don't
set technical direction.

> But, I see there is a good and bad things in every model, esp, when the
> leader is gone (like my sample is Stefano, and I found Kevin the
> burtantor --- never get his commit in his Jetspeed in this year.. except his
> email for launching a OpenPrivacy.org - busy with Reptile :) )...  Hi
> Kevin...
>
> The cocoon development still continue...and the cocoon 2 is better, but.. I
> have to scratch all the cocoon project because using cocoon 1.8.3..I work
> for 1 year for that.. learn from how to install, and try to learn behavior
> of Cocoon...
>
> This happen in Jetspeed from 1.3a1 to 1.3a2, but thanks they only change to
> .xreg, extension only..

Clearly, Cocoon has a healthier development community than Jetspeed at this
point in time.  Again, the distinction isn't between volunteer and
commercial.

> I think, if there is a new way of development (may be in Apache), where
> someone responsible to a tips and trick of beginner guide of a project,
> there will be hundreds new developer involve with the project, and may be
> more contributor, and may be more developer.. or something clear track from
> version to version...

Are you volunteering?  Any efforts along those lines would certainly be
welcome.  And if you have a commercial model in mind, that's OK too.

> Or, may be do you want to keep it, because may be the Open Source Project,
> or may be Microsoft will steal it... :(, I don't think this is a good..

Everybody is welcome to "steal" or contribute to Apache... even Microsoft.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: Comment for Apache.org

[Frans Thamura]

I am not working now (a freelance project for web design and
implementation), before that I worked at Andersen Business Consulting, as a
technical consultant, and quit, because I see almost the Big 5 don't have a
vision.

Frans Thamura



- Original Message -
From: "Stephane Bailliez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:35 PM
Subject: RE: Comment for Apache.org


> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> [...]
> > The most important thing to remember is that we are all
> > volunteers here,
> > and we are not alone. If you don't want to do something, don't do it.
> > Someone else will step in ... that's what meritocracy is all about.
>
> > The more you do, the more you are expected to do. The
> > corollary is, the less you do, the more someone else will do instead.
>
>
> Your statements are OK for Apache projects since they are based on
volunteer
> contributions because we all bring our own brick to the building.
>
> Unfortunately they are far from being true everywhere.
>
> If you know a place where there is no such bad attitude, then please name
> your company and location so that I can remember it... it's always nice to
> know :)
>
> Stephane
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> For additional commands, e-mail: 


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Re: Comment for Apache.org

[Ted Husted]

The Apache projects leave all the production decisions to the
committers. And all the committers are the same, there are no formal
roles. We are all volunteers here, and so it very hard to delegate
responsbilities. We can't say you work on this and you work on that.
People have to step up and do what they choose to do.

In a meritocracy, the products belong to those who created it -- the
committers. The ASF owns the license, but the committers control the
code, along with its documentation, and how it manages its internal
state. 

We make an infrastructure available to the teams, to make their jobs
easier. These include the mailing lists, CVS, Bugzilla, and Gump.
Hopefully Eyebrowse will be available soon. (Are we still trying the
Jive BBS forum?)

But we can't really dictate a development methodology, and require
people to file formal proposals and what not. How the software and
documentation is created is up to the committers, and no one else. 

There are almost as many development methodologies as they are
developers ;-), but they all have one thing in common: communication.
Which is what the Jakarta infrastructures tries to provide, a way for
committers and users to communicate. 

If better tools were provided for posting proposals and plans, I'm sure
most of the teams would use them. I remember Jon posted a link to
something another platform used to automate proposals. (Can't remember
what, but it was very cool.) But someone has to step up and make the
tools available, the way people like Pier stepping up and made Bugzilla
available. It's not anything the PMC can dictate. We have no staffers,
and have to wait for a volunteer with both inspiration and persperation.

If JBoss is going commercial, and is looking for a collaborative
platform, I'd start here:

http://www.collab.net/

-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Custom Software ~ Technical Services.
-- Tel +1 716 737-3463
-- http://www.husted.com/struts/



Frans Thamura wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thanks for the email, and also Jon.. ;).. I just want and try to integrate
> the PMC model with JBoss, and my own model..I think this will be a good
> model, even for my company that use several open source project component.
> 
> I just want to compare my experience in managing project and Jboss model
> with Apache model..
> 
> JBoss (Marc) wants to full time in JBoss, buy commercialing Documentation,
> and want to add forum to his web site (we will see it soon).. because he
> don't agree with Apache model (volunteer). I think that is true..
> 
> But, I see there is a good and bad things in every model, esp, when the
> leader is gone (like my sample is Stefano, and I found Kevin the
> burtantor --- never get his commit in his Jetspeed in this year.. except his
> email for launching a OpenPrivacy.org - busy with Reptile :) )...  Hi
> Kevin...
> 
> The cocoon development still continue...and the cocoon 2 is better, but.. I
> have to scratch all the cocoon project because using cocoon 1.8.3..I work
> for 1 year for that.. learn from how to install, and try to learn behavior
> of Cocoon...
> 
> This happen in Jetspeed from 1.3a1 to 1.3a2, but thanks they only change to
> .xreg, extension only..
> 
> But, where is the draft of the xreg?? I just can find it in proposal folder
> in CVS..
> 
> - Is there a way that in progress from the PMC, to increase the rapid of
> development of their project using this method (I call it traditional
> method) for a developer not in commiter level?? So all developer who
> interest with development of open source can learn the project in faster,
> may be 1-2 weeks, and after that can try to play around with the code..
> 
> Several people can read the code, but my approach in my company, try to make
> like a pseudo code or diagrm to explain of it, before the script is created.
> 
> - I try to create a model, because several of my software is based on Open
> Source Project (Cocoon, Jetspeed).
> 
> This is the hierarchy..
> PMC (We called it solution leader) --> Program Manager --> Project
> Manager --> Project Leader (always 2, Techical Leader, and Project
> Coordinator / Documentator --) --> Commiter (Senior Developer) -->
> Contributor (Developer) --> Developer.
> 
> I see Sun's Java, implementing specification for Servlet, J2EE, etc..and
> after the final spec, they create a software, where i cannot find it in
> Apache.. I see there is several project's proposal in JavaDoc, I think this
> is not a good solution. isn't it???
> 
> But, honestly, the apache project, is more interesting, but harder to
> implement.. esp for an user that want to use more than 2 project in their
> application..
> 
> I think, if there is a new way of development (may be in Apache), where
> someone responsible to a tips and trick of beginner guide of a project,
> there will be hundreds new developer involve with the project, and may be
> more contributor, and may be more developer.. or something clear track from
> version to versi

RE: Comment for Apache.org

[Stephane Bailliez]

> -Original Message-
> From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

[...]
> The most important thing to remember is that we are all 
> volunteers here,
> and we are not alone. If you don't want to do something, don't do it.
> Someone else will step in ... that's what meritocracy is all about. 

> The more you do, the more you are expected to do. The 
> corollary is, the less you do, the more someone else will do instead.


Your statements are OK for Apache projects since they are based on volunteer
contributions because we all bring our own brick to the building.

Unfortunately they are far from being true everywhere.

If you know a place where there is no such bad attitude, then please name
your company and location so that I can remember it... it's always nice to
know :)

Stephane

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Another Comment for Apache.org

[Frans Thamura]

> "The best place to post a question like this is ..., where there are
> more people to help you."
>

I like this,, very wise sentence...

When we help each other, we will smarter, and life will be enjoyable..

I discussed this with my friend, if the and idiot (not a dummies, remember
the for dummies book), can contribute a good code to a project..what happen
in the future of this book..

Who will kick Bill's ass, you as a commiter or that idiot people..?

Sorry this is only a joke..

I join the mailing list, in last 2 years, just for add friendship, and i
think i like this.. but sorry for my brain, may be i am not talent like all
of you Jons..

But, if you life in my country (a specialist cannot life here), as a
technical, you will understand it..haha.. but life will go on my friends.

Frans


_
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Re: Comment for Apache.org

[Frans Thamura]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the email, and also Jon.. ;).. I just want and try to integrate
the PMC model with JBoss, and my own model..I think this will be a good
model, even for my company that use several open source project component.

I just want to compare my experience in managing project and Jboss model
with Apache model..

JBoss (Marc) wants to full time in JBoss, buy commercialing Documentation,
and want to add forum to his web site (we will see it soon).. because he
don't agree with Apache model (volunteer). I think that is true..

But, I see there is a good and bad things in every model, esp, when the
leader is gone (like my sample is Stefano, and I found Kevin the
burtantor --- never get his commit in his Jetspeed in this year.. except his
email for launching a OpenPrivacy.org - busy with Reptile :) )...  Hi
Kevin...

The cocoon development still continue...and the cocoon 2 is better, but.. I
have to scratch all the cocoon project because using cocoon 1.8.3..I work
for 1 year for that.. learn from how to install, and try to learn behavior
of Cocoon...

This happen in Jetspeed from 1.3a1 to 1.3a2, but thanks they only change to
.xreg, extension only..

But, where is the draft of the xreg?? I just can find it in proposal folder
in CVS..

- Is there a way that in progress from the PMC, to increase the rapid of
development of their project using this method (I call it traditional
method) for a developer not in commiter level?? So all developer who
interest with development of open source can learn the project in faster,
may be 1-2 weeks, and after that can try to play around with the code..

Several people can read the code, but my approach in my company, try to make
like a pseudo code or diagrm to explain of it, before the script is created.

- I try to create a model, because several of my software is based on Open
Source Project (Cocoon, Jetspeed).

This is the hierarchy..
PMC (We called it solution leader) --> Program Manager --> Project
Manager --> Project Leader (always 2, Techical Leader, and Project
Coordinator / Documentator --) --> Commiter (Senior Developer) -->
Contributor (Developer) --> Developer.

I see Sun's Java, implementing specification for Servlet, J2EE, etc..and
after the final spec, they create a software, where i cannot find it in
Apache.. I see there is several project's proposal in JavaDoc, I think this
is not a good solution. isn't it???

But, honestly, the apache project, is more interesting, but harder to
implement.. esp for an user that want to use more than 2 project in their
application..

I think, if there is a new way of development (may be in Apache), where
someone responsible to a tips and trick of beginner guide of a project,
there will be hundreds new developer involve with the project, and may be
more contributor, and may be more developer.. or something clear track from
version to version...

Or, may be do you want to keep it, because may be the Open Source Project,
or may be Microsoft will steal it... :(, I don't think this is a good..

Because, I cannot find a proposal track that will be implemeted in every
project in Apache, but I get it in JBoss, when JBoss want to add JMS
feature...

Is my brain think good??? I just want to share what i think to all of you..
Feedback is very welcomed.

Oke, sorry the email, think postively of this, sorry if there is a negative
think of this..I just want to make it clear..


Frans Thamura







- Original Message -
From: "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org


> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "Paulo Gaspar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Ok, I suggest the creation of such mailing list and the creation of
> > a "Jon" page explaining the whole "Jon issue"... linked from Jakarta's
> > home page, of course.
> 
>
> Hm... Is Jon becoming the Richard Stallman of the Apache Software
Foundation
>
> ;) ;)
>
> ha.
>
> - --
> Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED] )
>  Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
> Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Web - http://relativity.yi.org/
>
> Without enlightenment, there is only ignorance.
>   -- famous Zen Koan
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Re: Comment for Apache.org

[Ted Husted]

Stephane Bailliez wrote:
> I just had the same problem a couple of hours ago. Someone asked how to
> retrieve the servlet parameters from web.xml, I replied with the link to the
> servlet api..then I got a private email "please help, could you give the
> name of class that does it". Like what he did not even read the docs

Personally, if its an email I don't want to answer, I either ignore it
or refer them to the user list. 

"The best place to post a question like this is ..., where there are
more people to help you."

If I do feel like replying, I usually reply to the list instead, so it
ends up on the archive. 

If a user posts a USER list question to DEV, I often do both. 

"The best place to post a question like this is the USER list, but  "

Just so I don't have to deal with it again later. 

If it's a question to the Jakarta webmaster box, I refer them to the
USER list for the product, and include a link to Jon's very excellent
"Jakarta Mailing Lists for Dummies" page. (I really need to put one of
these in front of the Webmaster link sometime.)

Most often, it's not what you say, but what you don't say. Usually, it's
just a matter of leaving out the trailing ", idiot" clause. This saves
everyone energy all around.

The most important thing to remember is that we are all volunteers here,
and we are not alone. If you don't want to do something, don't do it.
Someone else will step in ... that's what meritocracy is all about. 

The more you do, the more you are expected to do. The corollary is, the
less you do, the more someone else will do instead.

-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Custom Software ~ Technical Services.
-- Tel +1 716 737-3463
-- http://www.husted.com/struts/

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RE: Comment for Apache.org

[Stephane Bailliez]

> -Original Message-
> From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

[...]
> Now, I'm going to go back and start writing some more code 
> (and answering
> some more user questions).  I suggest we all do the same.


Craig,

While I more than vastly respect the huge work you are doing in both
contributed code and user questions answers (I'm puzzled at how productive
you are compared to me and how you can answer hundred of times the same
question in a relax attitude !), I have no idea what is the right attitude
to adopt in some cases...

There is some part of user education..what are we supposed to do then..say
"oh well bear with it" or try to educate users sometimes in a rude way like
parents do with their children (probably more in Europe than in US though)

I was sometimes kicked by Jon, but eh, he was damn right, I was being stupid
and did not do my homework. It sometimes happens to Jon as well too, but we
are all human and make mistakes and should put back on the right way
sometimes. If we do not then we take everything for granted.

I just had the same problem a couple of hours ago. Someone asked how to
retrieve the servlet parameters from web.xml, I replied with the link to the
servlet api..then I got a private email "please help, could you give the
name of class that does it". Like what he did not even read the docs

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Re: Comment for Apache.org

[Kevin A. Burton - burtonator]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

"Paulo Gaspar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Ok, I suggest the creation of such mailing list and the creation of 
> a "Jon" page explaining the whole "Jon issue"... linked from Jakarta's
> home page, of course.


Hm... Is Jon becoming the Richard Stallman of the Apache Software Foundation

;) ;)

ha.

- -- 
Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
 Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

Without enlightenment, there is only ignorance.
  -- famous Zen Koan
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