Re: Licensing issues of distributing catalina tomcat with GPL software
Ruslan, Basically you will be in breach of the GPL if you directly import Apache software. If you can use Apache software via an approved API like SAX then you are fine. GPL considers the SAX API as compatible and does not care if it is Xerces being instantiated by the factory. Assuming you can change to a situation where you are not importing unapproved licenses (like Apache Software License), there is still some issue with distributing it in a zip/tar.gz with GPL jars or classes. At least, I have heard of issues surrounding this, but cannot find a definitive statement at the FSF site. Assuming you cannot remove your imports of unapproved licenses and you are importing other GPL classes, change your license to LGPL, BSD, X11, W3C or MIT licenses. If you are not importing any GPL classes, and the decision to be GPL entirely rests with you, consider switching to other licenses like Apache, Mozilla etc. Regards, - Paul H Hi! I would like my project to be as lawful and correct (in terms of licenses) as possible. In my project (http://osec.sf.net) I provide tomcat servlet container in single package with other jars, available for separate download. Is that correct? Maybe I should add more licensing notices on download (http://osec.sf.net/download.shtml) page? Also i have modified bootstrap.jar from tomcat 4.0.1 and made it available for download, under which license it should go and is it correct? My project is released GPL (or LGPL). Please provide your suggestions on such matter. --- Ruslan AKA Jango contact at ruslan dot org http://www.ruslan.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ASL vs. GPL page?
Hi, Is there a page somewhere at apache.org, explaining why anyone would want to switch from GPL to ASL? The GNU.org site paints a very inspiring picture of a world of Free Software. It would be nice if there was an Apache equivalent somewhere explaining the Apache philosophy. This could be used as ammunition by people trying to convert useful GPL'ed projects. I'm sure many Jakarta members have found themselves in this situation. Personal perspective: I know I was quite shocked when I first heard someone here say GPL sucks (back in fighting-with-webmacro days:). I didn't know how to take it. What kind of philistine wouldn't want RMS's vision of Free Software to come true? It took me a long time (as a university student) to understand why the GPL truly does suck as a license for business use. So, a) is there anything out there already, and b) if not, anyone want to volunteer? :) I'm not very qualified, but could certainly provide something for a testimonial section. Here's a starting resource: http://www.oreillynet.com/lpt/a//policy/2001/12/12/transition.html Working Without Copyleft It's possible to be an ardent supporter of open source development and not be a fan of copyleft and the General Public License. In this article the authors -- software developers -- relate how they came to embrace copyleft, became disillusioned with its limitations, and consequently turned away from it. --Jeff -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
Send in a patch or write one it seems like you've researched the issue beyond *it sucks*. On Tue, 2002-03-05 at 06:16, Jeff Turner wrote: Hi, Is there a page somewhere at apache.org, explaining why anyone would want to switch from GPL to ASL? The GNU.org site paints a very inspiring picture of a world of Free Software. It would be nice if there was an Apache equivalent somewhere explaining the Apache philosophy. This could be used as ammunition by people trying to convert useful GPL'ed projects. I'm sure many Jakarta members have found themselves in this situation. You must realize that there are different objectives. It is the goal of GNU to get all software to use the GPL. It is not a goal of Apache to get all software covered by the APL. We're programmers, not lawyers. Most of make a living even writing software, not public speaking, etc. Personal perspective: I know I was quite shocked when I first heard someone here say GPL sucks (back in fighting-with-webmacro days:). I didn't know how to take it. What kind of philistine wouldn't want RMS's vision of Free Software to come true? It took me a long time (as a university student) to understand why the GPL truly does suck as a license for business use. So, a) is there anything out there already, and b) if not, anyone want to volunteer? :) I'm not very qualified, but could certainly provide something for a testimonial section. Naw, you're perfectly qualified. Write something, submit it and I'm sure someone will correct any mistakes. grab the jakarta-site2 module and submit a patch. use cvs diff -u -Andy Here's a starting resource: http://www.oreillynet.com/lpt/a//policy/2001/12/12/transition.html Working Without Copyleft It's possible to be an ardent supporter of open source development and not be a fan of copyleft and the General Public License. In this article the authors -- software developers -- relate how they came to embrace copyleft, became disillusioned with its limitations, and consequently turned away from it. --Jeff -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must realize that there are different objectives. It is the goal of GNU to get all software to use the GPL. It is not a goal of Apache to get all software covered by the APL. We're programmers, not lawyers. That's why I wouldn't be that comfortable with a Why GPL sucks page... Political propaganda? Looks really like it... And IMO that's not what we're here to do... We're here to write software... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
Maybe it would be appropriate to direct questioners to http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/perens.html? This O'Reilly page provides a brief overview of a few open source models and offers a book for people with more in-depth questions. Mike George - Original Message - From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: Re: ASL vs. GPL page? Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must realize that there are different objectives. It is the goal of GNU to get all software to use the GPL. It is not a goal of Apache to get all software covered by the APL. We're programmers, not lawyers. That's why I wouldn't be that comfortable with a Why GPL sucks page... Political propaganda? Looks really like it... And IMO that's not what we're here to do... We're here to write software... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ASL vs. GPL page?
Pier wrote: That's why I wouldn't be that comfortable with a Why GPL sucks page... Political propaganda? Looks really like it... And IMO that's not what we're here to do... We're here to write software... +1 IMO The licence is there to empower us, its not a product, its a by-product of the Way Things Are around here. It makes it possible for anyone to use, fork, extend and embed our code in OS, free, shareware or commercial products. If other licences are incompatible with this then that is an issue for them, it certainly is seldom a barrier in commercial licences ;), we shouldn't alienate anyone by setting ourselves up as some kind of authority and making political statements *except* where the issues impact upon the functioning or existence of the projects, like the JCP/JSPA issues. And anyway aren't licence issues beyond the remit of Jakarta? d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
On Tue, 2002-03-05 at 07:39, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must realize that there are different objectives. It is the goal of GNU to get all software to use the GPL. It is not a goal of Apache to get all software covered by the APL. We're programmers, not lawyers. That's why I wouldn't be that comfortable with a Why GPL sucks page... Political propaganda? Looks really like it... And IMO that's not what we're here to do... We're here to write software... *shrugs* I was just saying if he wanted to point out the need for a APL vs GPL differences page etc, then he should just submit one and see if it flies. I'm prone to agree with you. Legal issues bore the living crap out of me...okay not all together true...I watch Law and Order...but that's about the extent of it ;-). Putting the page up would of course excite RMS people into a frenzy, but who cares (I have mail filters). If people want the info, let em have it. Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And anyway aren't licence issues beyond the remit of Jakarta? Practically anyone has a word on the matter, as members are listening, but the legal decision (and legal obligations, bindings, restrictions, yadayadayada) are a privilege of members of the Foundation only, including what to do with the license... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2002-03-05 at 07:39, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must realize that there are different objectives. It is the goal of GNU to get all software to use the GPL. It is not a goal of Apache to get all software covered by the APL. We're programmers, not lawyers. That's why I wouldn't be that comfortable with a Why GPL sucks page... Political propaganda? Looks really like it... And IMO that's not what we're here to do... We're here to write software... *shrugs* I was just saying if he wanted to point out the need for a APL vs GPL differences page etc, then he should just submit one and see if it flies. I'm prone to agree with you. Legal issues bore the living crap out of me...okay not all together true...I watch Law and Order...but that's about the extent of it ;-). Putting the page up would of course excite RMS people into a frenzy, but who cares (I have mail filters). If people want the info, let em have it. A lot of what we think and why is on the web already... It's in the mail archives, in the presentations to different conferences, and so on... The word is out there, you just need to know where to look for... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And anyway aren't licence issues beyond the remit of Jakarta? Practically anyone has a word on the matter, as members are listening, but the legal decision (and legal obligations, bindings, restrictions, yadayadayada) are a privilege of members of the Foundation only, including what to do with the license... I came here for code, Java code :-) However there is a crowd discussing these things in depth at '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' - subscribe by sending a message to license-subscribe@... Dw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Licensing issues of distributing catalina tomcat with GPL software
- Original Message - From: Paul Hammant [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 12:19 PM Subject: Re: Licensing issues of distributing catalina tomcat with GPL software Ruslan, Basically you will be in breach of the GPL if you directly import Apache software. If you can use Apache software via an approved API like SAX then you are fine. GPL considers the SAX API as compatible and does not care if it is Xerces being instantiated by the factory. yes, i understand, what using xerces or xalan is ok this way, but i have a different situation, i am including tomcat not as library but as host environment (my app - web application - is executing on top of it) methinks it is a little different than using passive api library exports. Assuming you can change to a situation where you are not importing unapproved licenses (like Apache Software License), there is still some issue with distributing it in a zip/tar.gz with GPL jars or classes. At least, I have heard of issues surrounding this, but cannot find a definitive statement at the FSF site. Assuming you cannot remove your imports of unapproved licenses and you are importing other GPL classes, change your license to LGPL, BSD, X11, W3C or MIT licenses. what do you think if my code will be available under GPL and LGPL simultaneously? or it is redundant? If you are not importing any GPL classes, and the decision to be GPL entirely rests with you, consider switching to other licenses like Apache, Mozilla etc. Regards, - Paul H Hi! I would like my project to be as lawful and correct (in terms of licenses) as possible. In my project (http://osec.sf.net) I provide tomcat servlet container in single package with other jars, available for separate download. Is that correct? Maybe I should add more licensing notices on download (http://osec.sf.net/download.shtml) page? Also i have modified bootstrap.jar from tomcat 4.0.1 and made it available for download, under which license it should go and is it correct? My project is released GPL (or LGPL). Please provide your suggestions on such matter. --- Ruslan AKA Jango contact at ruslan dot org http://www.ruslan.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:09:23 Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A lot of what we think and why is on the web already... It's in the mail archives, in the presentations to different conferences, and so on... The word is out there, you just need to know where to look for... Right, obviously he sees a need for a more collected page. *shrug* I just told him *submit one* -- My personal opinion is that while a prominent page (fear of GNU backlash side) explaining the license would be helpful or just a prominant link to the O'Reilly article, I don't really see the need for GPL vs APL. A page that had that title would be more reflective of the GNU position on the subject. There is quite a bit of confusion on the license, I don't think a prominant page on it would be so controversial. I consider the statement you just need to know where to look for to be a symptom of improper information organization. Such things should be *easy* to find. Initiation into our community(ies?) has a higher barrier than I prefer, you can never have too much or too well organized documentation. (this is not to say that those who don't even read the web page before emailling committers gee is POI written in Java won't still be challenged...and thats a good thing, but that those who are just simple minded programmers like me looking for a place to code or who want to know do I have to donate my hello-world app based on to look. Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ASL vs. GPL page?
Jeff == Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeff Here's a starting resource: Jeff http://www.oreillynet.com/lpt/a//policy/2001/12/12/transition.html this link produced a (ouch) 500 response from oreilly. I was able to find another link that worked: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/policy/2001/12/12/transition.html -- joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: StudioZ (was: Re: JakartaOne?)
On 3/4/02 11:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yea right ! You liar :-) Sounds too cool to be true :-) Of course this should be an all night session. Definitely an all-nighter. :) .:..:.:.:::.:::...:..:::.::.::...:::x180:james duncan davidson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Back to JakartaOne planning...
On 3/5/02 10:40 PM, Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, I suggest that a few people step up to volunteer to make JakartaOne happen because it isn't going to happen all by itself. :-) Maybe even setup another mailing list to do planning on so that people who are interested in planning can join it and discuss things. If people are going to speak, a call for papers needs to go out, etc... As far as I'm concerned with StudioZ, I think we have agreed that Tuesday the 26th is the day, but I still need a decision for the time's that the event will happen for. Good question - day or night? Which implies less conflict with things people want to see/do at JavaOne? Are the schedules available yet? I'm happy to do the call for presentations if I can get two others to help me select if there are too many. I assume we'll take all that we can fit into the allotted time, but with more than one person, we can judiciously select if we have to. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting He who throws mud only loses ground. - Fat Albert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Documentation
On Tue, 2002-03-05 at 18:38, Ted Husted wrote: acoliver wrote: I consider the statement you just need to know where to look for to be a symptom of improper information organization. Such things should be *easy* to find. Initiation into our community(ies?) has a higher barrier than I prefer, you can never have too much or too well organized documentation. (this is not to say that those who don't even read the web page before emailling committers gee is POI written in Java won't still be challenged...and thats a good thing, but that those who are just simple minded programmers like me looking for a place to code or who want to know do I have to donate my hello-world app based on to look. Any comments on this? http://jakarta.apache.org/site/methodology.html I like it... . now that it compiles ;-) Think it should be Apache Jakarta/XML Manual not Apache Manual unless you get the httpd people involved and move it up a site... Add: 1. How to create a patch with -u format 2. How to apply a patch (symmetry) Moderators Guide: where was this last night! whoo! (its not there yet but whoo!) Licensing Add about mixing and matching GPL etc.. I know I know but its a old question. Documentation: Prefer a more documentation activist stance then what these bullets lead me to believe you intend to put... We really should work to improve documentation all around (yes, I'm doing my part) -- Furthermore, documentation should be seen on equal status as code.. As evidence it is not (in many places) see this page: http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/authors/index.html -- not that the manual should be the springboard for this idea... but it shouldn't reflect the I like having both versions but lean toward the second because the headings make it easier not to be overwhelmed. And thanks for linking to that License FAQ page Thats exactly what I thought was needed. I think one thing I'd like to see more prominently is something that says no, you really truly can just do a cvs co, change things, patch them and send those to the list...really truly thats all you have to do! No really! or something to that effect.. Its a hard concept to grasp (was for me, is for others) at first... I'd be good to have a standard TOC for each project of basic info. It would kinda encourage those projects to fill in any blanks. Those are my initial thoughts -- GREAT WORK.. I'll fill in pieces eventually ... I'm swamped at the moment (not that anyone isn't but I'm a little more then usual at the moment..) -Andy Note that there are two proposed outlines on the page. + Following the Jakarta Way and + The Volunteer Guides In the latter, I'm trying to organize the material around the various roles people play around here, from a user to a committer to a sys admin, and have them build on each other. -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY US -- Developing Java Web Applications with Struts -- Tel: +1 585 737-3463 -- Web: http://husted.com/struts -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
