Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On Nov 16, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Jukka Zitting wrote: Hi, Earlier today I did some graphs on cross-pollination among Apache projects and blogged a summary at [1]. Jakarta always ended up dominating the graphs, so the version on my blog has Jakarta excluded. Why? W/o Jakarta, the diagrams don't make any sense. For example, the Jakarta-free one has velocity's only relationship to DB (!), and for Harmony, to DB and XML! Ant, arguably one of the most pervasive projects, has no connection to anything else... geir If you're interested, there's a version with Jakarta in it at [2]. :-) [1] http://jukkaz.wordpress.com/2007/11/16/the-apache-cloud/ [2] http://people.apache.org/~jukka/2007/asf5.png BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Why? W/o Jakarta, the diagrams don't make any sense. For example, the Jakarta-free one has velocity's only relationship to DB (!), and for Harmony, to DB and XML! Ant, arguably one of the most pervasive projects, has no connection to anything else... I agree with Geir. The graph that includes Jakarta looks much more realistic than the other one. Bye, Thomas. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On 11/16/07, Jukka Zitting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Earlier today I did some graphs on cross-pollination among Apache projects and blogged a summary at [1]. Jakarta always ended up dominating the graphs, so the version on my blog has Jakarta excluded. If you're interested, there's a version with Jakarta in it at [2]. :-) snip/ Nice pictures, thanks for sharing. FWIW, I like the one with Jakarta (and Incubator). -Rahul [1] http://jukkaz.wordpress.com/2007/11/16/the-apache-cloud/ [2] http://people.apache.org/~jukka/2007/asf5.png BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On Nov 18, 2007, at 1:47 PM, Niall Pemberton wrote: On Nov 18, 2007 12:07 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 16, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Jukka Zitting wrote: Hi, Earlier today I did some graphs on cross-pollination among Apache projects and blogged a summary at [1]. Jakarta always ended up dominating the graphs, so the version on my blog has Jakarta excluded. Why? W/o Jakarta, the diagrams don't make any sense. For example, the Jakarta-free one has velocity's only relationship to DB (!), and for Harmony, to DB and XML! Ant, arguably one of the most pervasive projects, has no connection to anything else... Ant as a piece of software is pervasive - but are the Ant committers pervasive? I'd guess certainly more than an island. Jukka's cloud shows community/commiter relationships rather than software. The Jakarta one is interesting as it shows so much of JavaLand at the ASF sprang from Jakarta. I agree with Jukka though - it distorts the landscape. But that's the fact - that most of JavaLand sprang from jakarta... geir Niall geir If you're interested, there's a version with Jakarta in it at [2]. :-) [1] http://jukkaz.wordpress.com/2007/11/16/the-apache-cloud/ [2] http://people.apache.org/~jukka/2007/asf5.png BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On Nov 18, 2007 12:07 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 16, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Jukka Zitting wrote: Hi, Earlier today I did some graphs on cross-pollination among Apache projects and blogged a summary at [1]. Jakarta always ended up dominating the graphs, so the version on my blog has Jakarta excluded. Why? W/o Jakarta, the diagrams don't make any sense. For example, the Jakarta-free one has velocity's only relationship to DB (!), and for Harmony, to DB and XML! Ant, arguably one of the most pervasive projects, has no connection to anything else... Ant as a piece of software is pervasive - but are the Ant committers pervasive? Jukka's cloud shows community/commiter relationships rather than software. The Jakarta one is interesting as it shows so much of JavaLand at the ASF sprang from Jakarta. I agree with Jukka though - it distorts the landscape. Niall geir If you're interested, there's a version with Jakarta in it at [2]. :-) [1] http://jukkaz.wordpress.com/2007/11/16/the-apache-cloud/ [2] http://people.apache.org/~jukka/2007/asf5.png BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 01:58:29PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: But that's the fact - that most of JavaLand sprang from jakarta... Jukka's graph shows committer cross-polination, not *codebase* cross-polination (as I understand it)... So yes, since most committers for most ASF java projects were in Jakarta (since those projects were *in* Jakarta, after all), I still think that the non-Jakarta page provides a more accurate representation of the real dynamics, by removing the artifical aspects of Jakarta. Of course, I could be wrong :) -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On Nov 18, 2007 1:10 PM, Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 01:58:29PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: But that's the fact - that most of JavaLand sprang from jakarta... Jukka's graph shows committer cross-polination, not *codebase* cross-polination (as I understand it)... then you'd expect Harmony and Geronimo would connect with Velocity via Geir... i'm not sure what cross-pollination this graph refers to. Jukka, could you clarify? So yes, since most committers for most ASF java projects were in Jakarta (since those projects were *in* Jakarta, after all), I still think that the non-Jakarta page provides a more accurate representation of the real dynamics, by removing the artifical aspects of Jakarta. Of course, I could be wrong :) -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On Nov 18, 2007 1:14 PM, Nathan Bubna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 18, 2007 1:10 PM, Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 01:58:29PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: But that's the fact - that most of JavaLand sprang from jakarta... Jukka's graph shows committer cross-polination, not *codebase* cross-polination (as I understand it)... then you'd expect Harmony and Geronimo would connect with Velocity via Geir... i'm not sure what cross-pollination this graph refers to. Jukka, could you clarify? ah. i RTFA. a connection requires 5 committers in common. i'd be curious to see the graph with the threshold set to 3 (as that is more of a magic number in Apache community stuff). :) So yes, since most committers for most ASF java projects were in Jakarta (since those projects were *in* Jakarta, after all), I still think that the non-Jakarta page provides a more accurate representation of the real dynamics, by removing the artifical aspects of Jakarta. Of course, I could be wrong :) -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On Nov 18, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote: On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 01:58:29PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: But that's the fact - that most of JavaLand sprang from jakarta... Jukka's graph shows committer cross-polination, not *codebase* I don't think that anyone confused codebase and committer. I thought that many of the ant committers had much influence in what followed, since ant was one of the early arrivals in Jakarta as it was the build system for tomcat... therefore the linkages are meaningful, IMO. I think that the jakarta node represents meaningful information. For example, Velocity came from core Turbine people, and you can't get any sense of that from the Jakarta-free graph. Maybe that's the problem - that history isn't represented in current committer lists, and thus when you drop Jakarta, information is lost. cross-polination (as I understand it)... So yes, since most committers for most ASF java projects were in Jakarta (since those projects were *in* Jakarta, after all), I still think that the non-Jakarta page provides a more accurate representation of the real dynamics, by removing the artifical aspects of Jakarta. I guess it comes down to what Jukka's trying to show geir - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
Jukka is not subsribed, but the reason there are 5 is to kind of limit the size of the image (1 results in a huge image) Mvgr, Martin Nathan Bubna wrote: On Nov 18, 2007 1:14 PM, Nathan Bubna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 18, 2007 1:10 PM, Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 01:58:29PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: But that's the fact - that most of JavaLand sprang from jakarta... Jukka's graph shows committer cross-polination, not *codebase* cross-polination (as I understand it)... then you'd expect Harmony and Geronimo would connect with Velocity via Geir... i'm not sure what cross-pollination this graph refers to. Jukka, could you clarify? ah. i RTFA. a connection requires 5 committers in common. i'd be curious to see the graph with the threshold set to 3 (as that is more of a magic number in Apache community stuff). :) So yes, since most committers for most ASF java projects were in Jakarta (since those projects were *in* Jakarta, after all), I still think that the non-Jakarta page provides a more accurate representation of the real dynamics, by removing the artifical aspects of Jakarta. Of course, I could be wrong :) -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war ~ John Adams - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta at the center of the (ASF) universe
On Nov 18, 2007 10:20 AM, Thomas Vandahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Why? W/o Jakarta, the diagrams don't make any sense. For example, the Jakarta-free one has velocity's only relationship to DB (!), and for Harmony, to DB and XML! Ant, arguably one of the most pervasive projects, has no connection to anything else... I agree with Geir. The graph that includes Jakarta looks much more realistic than the other one. It also pretty clearly illustrates what happens when splitting up Jakarta was a deliberate choice, not a random activity. In other words, the resulting connectivity afterwards is more of the well, duh variety. It is effect, not cause. Craig Bye, Thomas. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
