RE: [OT] Re: wow
(Where's Jon when you need him? :) I can't believe I'm going to do this. jon Stop complaining about it and just fix it! /jon Hmmm... Looks better now. :-) Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:55 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: [OT] Re: wow I don't want to be the on-topic police guy, but clearly this isn't an issue for jakarta-general. It'd be better to send this to watchdog-dev (only) IMO, and improve the signal to noise ratio around here. (Where's Jon when you need him? :) On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: ;-) Henri Yandell wrote: Looks terrible. The img size is wrong. Was this sarcasm? :) It's too early in the morning to notice. On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Typo in webpage title
Done. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 8:12 AM To: 'General; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: Typo in webpage title Could someone fix this little thing? The typo is still there. He is talking about the title tag value. Have fun, Paulo -Original Message- From: Ernst de Haan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Typo in webpage title Hi, There's a small typo in the title of http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/news.html The page is titled: The Jakarta Site - New and Status ^ 's' missing :) Regards, Ernst -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ANN] Maven b3 released!
A brief review of the list archives shows that [ANNOUNCEMENT] notices have historically been posted to both announce and general (I've done it myself a few times). Now, just because it's always been done that way doesn't mean it shouldn't change, but no one's complained before. They're also usually cross-posted to the relevant -dev and -user lists. Personally, I don't have a problem with cross-posting such low frequency stuff. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:47 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: [ANN] Maven b3 released! Please don't cross post announcements to the general list. Announcements should go to the announcements list as thats what it is meant for. On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:14, Jason van Zyl wrote: The Maven team is pleased to announce the Beta 3 release! http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/ Maven is a Java project management and project comprehension tool. Maven is based on the concept of a project object model (POM) in that all the artifacts produced by Maven are a result of consulting a well defined model for your project. Builds, documentation, source metrics, and source cross-references are all controlled by your POM. Maven has many goals, but in a nutshell Maven aims to make the developer's life easier by providing a well defined project structure, well defined development processes to follow, and a coherent body of documentation that keeps your developers and clients apprised of what's happening with your project. Maven alleviates a lot of what most developers consider drudgery and lets them get on with the task at hand. This is essential in OSS projects where there aren't many people dedicated to the task of documenting and propagating the critical information about your project which is necessary in order to attract potential new developers and clients. Changes in this version include: o Integration of Checkstyle o Maven installation update mechanism that allows you to easily update your Maven installation. o POM update mechanism that will move your Maven projects forward easily as Maven improves. The updater will transform your project descriptor, properties files and the project structure itself if required. o Testing has been simplified and made safer. o An XML Schema and validation mechanism have been added. o Documentation changes include fully documented Maven properties, the start of an FAQ, and several modifications to help unify the documentation so its more coherent for new users. -- Cheers, Pete Why does everyone always overgeneralize? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Keynote announcement
I was at the Keynote and I must that I was really impressed both with the work you guys did behind the scenes to make this happend and with your presentation on the stage. You certainly didn't look nervice! Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Jason Hunter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 2:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Keynote announcement Was anyone watching the JavaOne keynote this morning? We successfully made the announcement about Apache and Sun coming to an agreement. The audience applauded as I announced every agreement point! What was particularly exciting is I was able to give the announcement with Scott McNealy standing to my right and Rob Gingell standing to my left. People were happy to see Scott get behind this, because it'll make things easier to execute within Sun. They have it streaming at: http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/sf2002/conf/keynotes/index.en.jsp Skip to about 19 minutes into the keynote, duration is about 8 minutes. Anyone know how to capture streaming Real content? -jh- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [off topic] Zaurus PDA at java one
I bought one on Monday, but I haven't had a chance to do much Java stuff with it yet. I've just been too busy with other stuff. I'm hoping to experiment with some more this evening. I'll post with some details once I get something running. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 3:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [off topic] Zaurus PDA at java one Did anyone attending java one play with one ? Any good ? I am tempted to get one - but am held back by an experience with them a year ago or so when it barely worked - and would barf as soon as you did something serious on threading, garbage collection, etc. Dw -- Dirk-Willem van Gulik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JakartaOne: The Gathering
If there are legos around, I might not do much else but play with them! One of the cool things about having kids is that you get to play with their toys without looking like a complete fool. :-) Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Martin Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:47 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: JakartaOne: The Gathering I've printed a scaled-up copy of The Jakarta Project logo, and am hoping to tape it up, or make it otherwise visible, somewhere in the bar, so that we can find each other. Alternatively, Dirk's Lego project idea might help, although it's been a very long time since I played with Lego... :-) -- Martin Cooper - Original Message - From: Marc Saegesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 4:32 PM Subject: RE: JakartaOne: The Gathering I'll be there. I'm in SF now, for the conference. Any idea how to identify Jakarta group? I've only met a couple in person before. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Martin Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 1:36 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: JakartaOne: The Gathering OK, we need to make a decision, pronto! Let's meet at 21st Amendment (563 2nd Street) at 7:30pm on Monday. We can take the rest from there. Martin. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:24 AM Subject: Re: JakartaOne: The Gathering Jon, can you suggest a place that isn't too far away from Moscone that has a large bar (with real beer...) we can gather in, with a reasonably-priced restaurant that we can then have dinner in? Cuisine can be anything, but a 'normal' american upscale bar menu might be the most appealing to the majority. How about Monday or Wed night? How about the Thirsty Bear? I don't know anything about the place - isn't that where the Jboss people are holding court? Soapy Bear is horrid- they clean their tubes badly, use too much detergent when they do, and as a result you get old yeast and other crap. Always a headache the next day. I'd also be against the Irish place - too noisy to talk :-) Other near by ones which are good to OK IMHO, have good beer and good food are and are quiet enough to talk: Rickenbacher bar; 2nd and mission 21st Amendment; 2nd 2 blocks down. Dw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JakartaOne: The Gathering
I'll be there. I'm in SF now, for the conference. Any idea how to identify Jakarta group? I've only met a couple in person before. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Martin Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 1:36 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: JakartaOne: The Gathering OK, we need to make a decision, pronto! Let's meet at 21st Amendment (563 2nd Street) at 7:30pm on Monday. We can take the rest from there. Martin. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:24 AM Subject: Re: JakartaOne: The Gathering Jon, can you suggest a place that isn't too far away from Moscone that has a large bar (with real beer...) we can gather in, with a reasonably-priced restaurant that we can then have dinner in? Cuisine can be anything, but a 'normal' american upscale bar menu might be the most appealing to the majority. How about Monday or Wed night? How about the Thirsty Bear? I don't know anything about the place - isn't that where the Jboss people are holding court? Soapy Bear is horrid- they clean their tubes badly, use too much detergent when they do, and as a result you get old yeast and other crap. Always a headache the next day. I'd also be against the Irish place - too noisy to talk :-) Other near by ones which are good to OK IMHO, have good beer and good food are and are quiet enough to talk: Rickenbacher bar; 2nd and mission 21st Amendment; 2nd 2 blocks down. Dw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun to lock Open Source out of Java.
-Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 3/14/02 9:25 AM, GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was just thinking about log4j case, which is an excellent piece of code but wasn't use in latest jdk. Right and even though I know that logging will be in the next JDK, I am still going to design using it. But you know what ? People use log4j because it came from Apache and is synonim of quality. Nah - I use log4j because it *is* quality. Maybe people give it a look because of the apache relationship, but I clearly use it for what it is. Geir The log4j issue highlights a couple other flaws in Sun's Put everything in the world in the JDK approach. How many people, doing product development in the real world can actually make use of the new logging API (or other JDK 1.4 specific features)? It only exists in JDK 1.4 and for licensing reasons will never exist outside an official JDK. What about code that has to run on platforms that don't have a 1.4 JRE yet? What about shops developing with tools that don't support JDK 1.4 yet? What about code that has to run inside containers that don't support 1.4 JREs yet? Then there is the risk factor. Suppose the logging facility works great, but there is a serious bug, or performance problem or whatever that makes the JDK not feasible for production? By using JDK1.4 specific features you've locked yourself in and you can't go back without serious effort. How many companies are willing to risk blowing their development schedules on a new JDK release? I think a lot of shops will wait for JDK 1.4.1 before they really switch over. Contrast that with Log4J. It works on any platform with a Java runtime. Its been around long enough that the kinks have been worked out. Lots of APIs and components already use it. The cost/benefit, risk/reward analysis swings pretty far away from the JDK stuff. Marc Saegesser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] ASL vs. GPL page: is this okay?
-1 I'm not sure we need this at all. If it stopped after the first paragraph and didn't mention copyleft and GPL in the title I'd be -0. Shouldn't this really be an ASF level decision instead of a Jakarta level one? Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Jeff Turner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VOTE] ASL vs. GPL page: is this okay? Hi, As promised, I've written up an ASL vs. GPL page, for possible inclusion on jakarta-site2. I've more tried to capture the spirit of the thing from the Apache POV, than duplicate the detailed arguments in the O'Reilly article referenced at the end. Please vote on whether you think the reasons outlined here are sufficiently representative. Constructive criticism and change suggestions welcome. If sufficiently approved of, I'll XMLify it and submit a patch. --Jeff Why prefer the ASL to a copyleft license (eg GPL)? -- This is an slightly distasteful topic for most Apache developers. The license is simply not a central part of the Apache philosophy. Apache is about creating communities that create great software. The ASL is a minimum legal necessity that allows us to do this, nothing more. It promotes no political axe-grinding, and has no great philosophy that needs defending. The ASL, in fact, presents such a small conversational target that any licensing debate inevitably becomes what is wrong with license X. That inevitably leads to misunderstandings, holy wars and bad feeling, It's not productive, and not fun, and why we find licensing debates distasteful. In particular, it's not fun rubbishing the GPL. The reader is encouraged to read the GNU's philosophy pages (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/). It is wonderful, high-minded stuff that most programmers instantly resonate with. Opposing RMS's vision of Free Software at first seems to be like kicking a puppy. But let's kick it anyway. It turns out that the puppy soon grows up to be a bulldog, biting and tenaciously hanging on to any code it can. Due to the GPL's extensive scope and 'viral' linking rules, GPL'ed code cannot be incorporated into proprietary software. It must all be copylefted, or none of it can be. In many cases, we at Apache find the GPL's virality a hindrance in *our* goal: creating communities that create code. This is because large parts of our community are selling custom solutions, not shrink-wrapped products sold in volume for general consumption. Essentially, selling software-based services, not software. When you're selling a service, releasing the code makes no sense to *anyone*. The code is mostly customer- or sector-specific, so is not reusable, and of little interest to fellow developers. The customer *certainly* doesn't want you publicising their code, breaking confidentiality agreements and potentially exposing security flaws to the world. Thus, to adopt a copyleft license like the GPL would alienate the service-oriented portion of our community. We want the widest possible audience, not for market share, but because the diverse input results in software with hybrid vigour, wide applicability and the kind of tough-as-nails quality we strive for. Thus, we encourage users to adopt non-copyleft licenses like the ASL for everyday code, as it increases the chances of code sharing and cooperation, ultimately leading to better software. For further information, please refer to the well-researched and well-written O'Reilly article entitled Working Without Copyleft, at http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/policy/2001/12/12/transition.html A good general reference of open source licenses is Bruce Perens' book Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution at http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/perens.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] ASL vs. GPL page: is this okay?
I would love to see a document describes the Apache Software License, the philosophy behind it and why we think the ASL is a good thing. What I don't want is another tirade about why GPL sucks. There's enough of that out there already and getting into pissing match over licensing just doesn't seem productive. It would be good to have a basic Here's what we stand for... document with some pointers to other licenses and articles discussing licensing issues. Anything beyond that, I believe, belongs less in the realm of the Apache web site and more in the realm of a magazine article or blog discussion, etc. Let people come look at our licensing document and how simple and open it is, then let them go see the GPL document and read about all the things they won't be able to use, all the things they won't be able to do and all the things the FSF doesn't like. I think we win. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:43 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: [VOTE] ASL vs. GPL page: is this okay? At 16:17 06.03.2002 -0600, you wrote: -1 I'm not sure we need this at all. I disagree. I think we definitely need a solid document countering the idyllic but false world depicted by the FSF. It's just a gargantuan task to come up with a such a document. Regards, Ceki -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JakartaOne?
I'll be out there for JavaOne and I'd love to get together with other Jakarta folks. I haven't worked out my whole schedule yet, but I'm not sure how much time I'd have for an 'off-site convnention' (as cool as that sounds). Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 5:15 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: JakartaOne? On 3/4/02 1:25 AM, James Strachan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JavaOne is around the corner. Do any Jakarta folks fancy a JavaOne get together in a bar somewhere? Maybe Jon's new bar? I was thinking about this earlier in feb, but wasn't sure we had the time... I wanted to call it 'OpenOne' (but 'JakartaOne' is nice...) and use a space like Jon's where we could have both a social gathering as well as some short technical talks on things that didn't make it into JavaOne (for example, if it didn't have anything to do with XML or web services). Here's what I had so far as a draft : I would like to get a sense of community interest for the following idea Proposal Hold an off-site convention during the week of JavaOne to provide a venue for topics that didn't make the cut for JavaOne as well as topics that did, of course. Examples include (imagination challenged right now...) o bastard J2EE technologies - template engines (could you guess I would suggest this ?) - publishing frameworks (Cocoon et al) - web app frameworks (Turbine, Maverick, Struts) - ? o mainstream technologies - web services (I want to hear Sam talk about Axis :) - XML-RPC - ? o community discussions - JSPA issues - ? o other stuff - how about JDD talking about Objective C - Gump sociology - Maven Rationale - There are a lot of interesting things in the world that Sun's marketing crew doesn't have space or interest for at JavaOne. Many of these things are in daily production use by people, and it would be nice to hear about them. Many developers will be in the area for this week, and if we could find a way to bring us together for both social interaction as well as learning about some of the topics we work on and are interested in, it seems like a win all around. Thoughts We have an in with an event space in San Francisco (hey, Jon!) and from what I understand, it has two distinct spaces, one of which can serve alcohol. So we can divide, cleanly, the social space and the technical space. Those in the social space can bring their own, I guess :) However, I think if we do this, we should pay for the space (unless studio.tv wants the publicity :), and there lies a conflict of interest problem, but I assume that if the rate is competitive, as I am sure it will be, we can all look the other way. I don't know if we have the time to pull it off - it would be nice to put something non-lame together. I think we shouldn't be aggressive about this - find a spot in the schedule so people aren't torn between J1 and this... -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting The bytecodes are language independent. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The Complete Server Platform?
QED -- Quality Enterprise Distribution (or Quite Easy Dummy as my old Philosophy 101 prof used to say). Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 1:32 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: The Complete Server Platform? Open Enterprise Distribution ... I'm bigger into descriptive names that mean something when they don't cause lawsuits... :-) You asked... What's in a name? -Andy On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 13:52, Andrus Adamchik wrote: Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 12:42, Andrus Adamchik wrote This is exactly why I think setting up a separate project would be a good idea. A project that would realize the concept of a platform that uses open tools (as opposed to jakarta-only tools). Though of course it will most likely be 70-80% Jakarta based. +1 -- I think eventually it could be brought to Jakarta if it was successful I am ready to setup a project on SourceForge. Any name suggestions? How about Fusion? Kind of on topic, though sounds like ColdFusion. When the name is decided upon we can transfer this discussion to SourceForge, though I of course have a lot of hope that this community will be interested enough to provide input. Especially since this project is not so much about coding, but rather architecture. -- ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- - Andrei (a.k.a. Andrus) Adamchik http://objectstyle.org email: andrus at objectstyle dot org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Apache Manual (was ApacheForge)
Alex, That's a really good start. My only comment right now is to point out that some of the topics in this list are Jakarta specific and Apache is much bigger than Jakarta. It would be cool if a manual such as this covered how other Apache projects handle similar tasks. I'd also include a chapter on Apache and Jakarta rules. For example, voting rules, what constitutes a valid vote, what are the voting types and when they apply, what are meanings of +1/+0/0/-0/-1 in the various voting types. A collection of release instructions for various projects might also be useful. When I was the release manager for Tomcat 3.2.x I got some initial help from Craig, but after that I had to invent most of the process myself (and I'll be the first admit that I didn't document that process :-( ). I'm sure I think of more after giving it some more thought. Good start, though. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:04 PM To: 'Jakarta General List' Subject: RE: Apache Manual (was ApacheForge) Why not start it yourself and anyone can suggest changes. On the other hand, why not start it myself. Something like this: 1.- Introduction Who we are, why are we doing this. 2.- Project proposal Proposal stage, committers needed, community. 3.- Code organization and repositories Naming of packages, repositories, what to find in them. Who touches what. 4.- Code quality Add copyright notice, add authors. Format your code but not others'. 4.- Build system Use Ant, use Ant, use Ant. Use Gump. Use Scarab. 5.- Dependencies What jar's to use and what to avoid. 6.- Documentation Where to look for it. What to expect, what not to expect. 7.- Support Whom you should ask, what you should figure out yourself. 8.- Licensing and guarantee Why you should use Apache license, and what's wrong with other licenses. What you can do with Apache products. Giving credit. All that implied warranty things. Un saludo, Alex. -Mensaje original- De: Paul Hammant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Enviado el: miércoles 20 de febrero de 2002 18:51 Para: Jakarta General List Asunto: Apache Manual (was ApacheForge) Jon, Give us a TOC for what you think might be a good starting point. That said, I will do my best to support someone who wants to create a manual like that. If you hang around here and watch what happens and how people do things and start to document it. Then I promise to review it and comment on it. - Paul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ApacheForge
-1 Since the proposed ApacheForge would have no real connection with Apache other than running on Apache hardware I don't really see the value. How is this different from starting a project on SourceForge and building the community that way? There's nothing stopping anyone from using the Apache license there. Now, don't read that as meaning that I think AltRMI should move to SourceForge, I don't. I also understand and sympathize with the catch-22 adding a new jakarta-commons committer that started this whole discussion. I think we should work out a solution to that problem, I just don't think that ApacheForge is the right solution. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Paul Hammant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:03 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ApacheForge Folks, *Management summary* Apache create ApacheForge. It has rules on IP and decision making, but is completely open to entrants. *Long winded desc* The Free Software Foundation were peeved that SourceForge forked their site source internally. So upset in fact they mounted their own site - http://savannah.gnu.org/ for the hosting of projects using 'Free' (read their definition - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html ) This specifically precludes Apache licensed developments (and 100 perfectly good other ones). The software they are maintaining to run the site ( http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/savannah/ ) has no such restrictions on use. I.e. the eligibility is determined by FSF management upon application. The software - like the SF base it came from - can be used for anything. I propose we mount a server that runs this software, with completely separate user-ids to cvs.apache.org that actively invites projects to form there. No project mounted there would be listed on Apache front pages, nor would the committers be allowed to leverage the the Apache name (XYZ is a an Apache project should be XYZ is an ApacheForge project). At a point of maturity, the project team could be approached for a lising and presence at jakarta.apache.org itself. I.e. it is, in a sense, a proving ground. Reason? I see us as being too selective. We should be inviting as many as possible to license their code as Apache. Some could argue that SourceForge already provide this possibility, but we do not *market* our license in the same way that the FSF markets theirs. Many (mostly newbies) consider the GPL as the only choice of license. We all come accross them at work or in the pub. The dogma is so entrenched, we feel that any engaging in conversation on the topic is pointless. Reason2? Projects largely arrive here from the outside. If some thing starts here as small thing taped to some larger project, it is easier to to take it away and market it freshly at Source Forge than try to build a comminity around it here and push for project status. If we had our own proving ground, then this would not feel such a bizarre route to project status. I do not think that something like commons is the answer. The admin overhead and risks from rogue committers to high security projects (like Apache Web Server itself) are too great for cvs.apache.org. Also the mail lists become unusable the more projects coexisting in there. I like the idea of a seperate, but endorsed ApacheForge site. It would give i) Encouragement ii) Independance but also iii) Community. I think it is a good and safe solution to what I think is the catch-22 situation of trying to get a project hosted at Apache. Regards, - Paul H -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[VOTE] New jakarta-site2 commiter: Andy Armstrong
Andy is a Jakarta Tomcat committer and has supplied useful (and correct) patches to jakarta-site2. I propose he be given karma to the jakarta-site2 repository. Marc Saegesser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Updating the site
If its on a publicly visible server just send a URL otherwise attach it to a private email to me and I'll get it into the right place. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Andy Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 7:15 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Updating the site Andy Armstrong wrote: Marc Saegesser wrote: Or just send a [PATCH] email here and someone with appropriate karma can apply it and update the site. Will do when I go home -- I left the changes on my computer there. It just occurs -- there's some binary data in there too -- a GIF screenshot. Is it better if I just stick it on a server somewhere and point you at it? -- Andy Armstrong, http://www.tagish.co.uk/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Updating the site
Or just send a [PATCH] email here and someone with appropriate karma can apply it and update the site. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Andy Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 5:18 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Updating the site Danny Angus wrote: Oh good news I like Putty. Me too. So who's got the Karma bucket for jakarta-site2? ;-) -- Andy Armstrong, Tagish -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Jakarta PMC bylaws change
Simply because each Jakarta project doesn't have a committer on the PMC does not necessarily imply that each project would not have representation on the PMC. Hopefully, through the nomination and voting process, each project would find someone that is willing to represent their interests in the PMC. Requiring direct representation for each project does not sound like a good long term strategy. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:07 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Jakarta PMC bylaws change On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:27, Sam Ruby wrote: The number of PMC seats will be set at seven. Annually, all seven seats will be up for renewal. The ASF board will be asked to provide a person or persons to administer the nominations and a subsequent ballot. The administrator(s) will determine the mechanics of the voting procedures. Any committer to any Jakarta code base will be eligible to vote. Once the new PMC is in place, the first order of business will be to determine a chairperson from amongst their ranks. Once ratified, this proposal would be effective immediately, and an election would be initiated. Sounds good - but this kinda has one other implication. The PMC will no longer be able to adequetly cover all sub-projects - it would be quite possible that some some projects would be completely without representation. If this was put in place it kinda suggests that maybe jakarta should not be so big ... ;) -- Cheers, Pete These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Volunteer Wanted
I was actually thinking along those same lines. Tomcat 3.2.x is history and I haven't found another place to stick my fingers into the code, yet, so I wouldn't mind helping out a little bit with this. BUT, I have NO desire to hold such a position indefintely. I like the idea of a rotation. Depending on the load and the number of volunteers a two week rotation might be better. How many messages per day are we talking about. Marc Saegesser -Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:14 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Volunteer Wanted First, the page is outdated, Java Apache is not Jakarta. Second, acting as a receptionist at desk with a million visitors a day is not what I call a dream job. The task should left to one person but shared on a rotational basis. I am willing to be the first and take over for *one* month. Any other volunteers? Regards, Ceki At 14:57 08.01.2002 -0500, you wrote: I'd say it should be the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and if anyone, including Paulo, want to help out with the Webmaster emails, that would be great. Jon Scott Stevens wrote: I want to remove my name from this page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] === The information contained in this message is confidential and is intended for the addressee(s) only. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender of the delivery error by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. - Apropos Technology. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thoughts on Coding Standards
I've been watching the recent 'discussion' on coding conventions with some interest. I promised myself I'd stay out of it, but in the end I just can't. I guess I'm weak that way. When discussion coding conventions we first need to understand *why* they are important. What are coding standards really for? This is an honest question and I'd recommend that before you read much further you stop and try to answer the question for yourself. Over the years I've heard many justifications for coding standards, but only one, in my opinion, is of much real value. Coding standards are not to make 'everything look the same' (the code may look more similar, but that isn't the real goal), they are not to protect coders from making stupid typographical errors (they might, but that isn't their primary purpose). The real purpose for coding standards to IMPROVE SOFTWARE MAINTAINABILITY. Coding standards don't equate to improved maintainability, but they are an important component. Maintainable code has the following attributes: 1) Readable (legible) 2) Understandable 3) Modifiable Readability is related to the textual formatting of the source code. It involves indentation, bracing styles, naming conventions, etc. Outside of entries to the IOCCC (International Obfuscated C Coding Contest), someone one reading code shouldn't have to spend much time trying to figure out if a statement really belongs inside an if block or not. Understandability relates to readability in that readable code is more likely to be understandable, but it involves much more than that. Understandability is the attribute of being able to read a section of code and understand what that code is supposed to accomplish and how it accomplishes it. Understandability relies not only on the code logic being clear but also relies heavily on source code documentation in the form of comments. Understandability can be measured on many levels. For example, what does a given loop accomplish, what does a given method do, what is this class for, how does this class fit into the application as a whole? All of these are questions of understandability. Modifiable code is the opposite of 'brittle' code. Brittle means that a small and seemingly benign change may have huge or catastrophic impact on the system as a whole. Developers are more comfortable making fixes or enhancements to modifiable code because is there is less chance that their changes will have unexpected impacts. Understandable code leads to improved modifiability because obviously developers are less likely to break code that they can readily understand, but it involves much more than this. Modifiability is more about proper design (OO methods, design patterns, etc.) then about the specifics of language syntax or text formatting. Coding conventions can be an important part of developing readable and understandable code. But, when codifying a set of conventions to impose upon developers, it is important to understand how each convention relates to improving maintainable code and then discarding those that really have no direct bearing. Otherwise, the coding conventions are simply one set of developers imposing their will upon the majority by virtue of nothing other than their position of power. I've rambled on longer than I intended so let me finish with two examples to demonstrate. One will be an example of a common coding convention that should be discarded because it does not directly impact maintainability and other is a convention that actually is important. First, bracing formats. As long as a given module follows a consistent strategy for using braces the specifics of that strategy are irrelevant to any rational coding convention. Each developer may have their own pet formatting that they believe is the 'most readable' but in reality, as long as a module uses a consistent format any developer who claims to be a professional in this business should be able to read it with little trouble. Now a simple convention that really is important. Don't define or initialize more than one variable on a single line. Why? Because it reduces readability by making it harder to see at a glance the type or value of a variable. It also impacts modifiability because it is easy to overlook an assignment that's buried in with several others on a single line so a change to code may have unexpected results. OK, that's enough for now, I need to go back to trying to keep my day job. But please, stop debating where the damn braces go, stop trying to impose a strict set of all encompassing rules that apply to all of Jakarta. Focus on defining a small set of basic rules that actually have a real impact on code maintainability and leave it at that. I have a set of coding guidelines that I recently developed for Java developers within my company. At some point, when I have some time, I'll see about removing the Apropos specific stuff and post it here for discussion. Marc Saegesser
[ANNOUNCEMENT] Tomcat 3.2.4 beta 1 available
The first beta release of Jakarta Tomcat 3.2.4 is now available for download at http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-tomcat/release/v3.2.4-beta-1 Tomcat 3.2.4 fixes bugs found since the Tomcat 3.2.3 release in July, 2001. See the RELEASE-NOTES file for details on bug fixes and changes in this release. Please download and the release and try it your environment. Report any bugs to the Apache Bug Database at http://nagoya.betaversion.org/bugzilla/ Assuming no show stopping bugs are found during the beta period, the final release is expected on about November 8, 2001. Marc Saegesser - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ANNOUNCEMENT] Tomcat 3.2.2 released
I am pleased to announce that the Tomcat 3.2.2 release is now available for download at http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/tomcat/release/v3.2.2 Tomcat 3.2.2 is a maintenance release that fixes several bugs from version 3.2.1 and corrects all known specification compliance issues. The release notes file in src/doc/readme covers the details of the Tomcat 3.2.2 release. Tomcat 3.2.2 is now the latest production quality Tomcat release. Users of version 3.2.1 and earlier release are encouraged to update to this release. Marc A. Saegesser - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ANNOUNCEMENT] Tomcat 3.2.2 beta 2 released
I am pleased to announce that the Tomcat 3.2.2 beta 2 release is now available for download at http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/tomcat/release/v3.2.2-beta-2 Tomcat 3.2.2 contains bug fixes collected since the release of Tomcat 3.2.1. The bugs known to be fixed in this release as well as all known bugs and limitations are listed in doc/readme. This second beta release contains several additional bug fixes since the first beta release. These fixes are mostly to improve compliance with the Servlet 2.2 and JSP 1.1 specifications. Please download this release and give it a try in your environment. If no more critical bugs are found, this will become the basis for the final release of Tomcat 3.2.2 in approximately two weeks. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: 3.2.2?
The first (and hopefully only) beta release of Tomcat 3.2.2 should happen early next week. If all goes well the final release will happen in mid-March. -Original Message- From: Randy Layman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 2:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: 3.2.2? It can be built from the CVS sources, but it has not yet been made into a release as far as i know. Randy -Original Message- From: David M. Rosner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: 3.2.2? Hi All, I'm running jakarta 3.2 and have run into a problem where certain browsers get the text of the jsp code instead of the correct results of the jsp execution. I found 2 bugs in the bug database that appear to be the same problem. The resolution states that this problem has been fixed in versions 3.2.2 and 3.3. I see that 3.3 is not a release version so i don't want to touch that just yet. But I can't find 3.2.2 anywhere. Does anyone know where 3.2.2 can be found and if so if it is a stable release? Thanks, -dave - David M. Rosner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
