Re: Just in case you're curious

[Vic Cekvenich]

... sensitive things should be on the PMC
 list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list.

What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? 
This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are 
ashamed of it, don't do open source community.

For a developer ... lets have some code in open, and the bad code we 
will just have in a encrypted jar. Is this open source?

What do I mean by that:
ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something, commit 
the code to do it.

ASF used(?) to be run by commiters.
Now some are trying to develop "rulling" class, that is carving out 
roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for 
commiters, but does not committ itself?.
What happend to emritius commiters? People who did not CVS a chunk of 
code in a while lose vote rights and their berucrat office.
The people that are vocal on berucracy are same people I wonder where 
have they CVSed latelly.

ASF is still very small, $100K in the bank. It's committer volunters and 
users that use it.
No need for a rulling class, what's wrong with peers?
Some officers rotated in for admin.
If commiters don't get active to make it better, it will get worse. 
People I know are active in CVS (via CVS posts I see) have said very 
little relative to people I never see in CVS.

Vic
(Struts user)
Ex: "germaine" issue, why no public vote of any kind on it ever, else 
link it for me.  I think once "germaine" is addressed, things go back to 
normal. None of this : we are not smart enough to understand. This is 
the only issue that is secret, AFAIK.



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www.apache.org down?

[Vic Cekvenich]

It seems that www.apache.org and jakarta.apache.org, etc. are down.
Could be my isp  but...
.V
ps: open source != closed list


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[HiveMind] Where?

[Vic Cekvenich]

I personally would like to use HiveMind for Struts, just like commons 
"resources", beautils, validator, etc, were spun out of Struts so it 
could be shared, and placed in Commons or Commons Saundbox (a safe place 
to play).
HiveMind AFAIK was a Tapestry Component, but could/should be used by 
others. Even Turbine has Torqe, a component you could use outside of 
Trubine.
It may end up that Avalon be refactored to use "Commons" HiveMind.

My feel is that HiveMind should not be forced to combine with Avalon. 
Why not make Turbine work w/Struts or Velocity group in that case? There 
is plenty of room on CVS I hope. Let the best one win out. Of course, 
since both are ASF license, they could share code from each other, and 
keep attribution.

I would like for there to exist a ASF "Services" component that could be 
re-used.

Also, if no IP resoultion, I hope it ends up in sf.net; I would still 
use it.

.V



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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo

[Vic Cekvenich]

Scott Tavares wrote:

Geezz relax Vic, .  I can not understand why you are so
passionate about this. 
Sincerely I think this is bad for open source and for sofware, which is 
where I do make a living.
This is great for comercail vendors, "proving" that open source are... 
less ethical.  What does it mean to be an open source supporter now, to 
a client?  (OK, I should take the point that I need to let go of Don 
Quihote)

I think lawyers have a bad reputation, and I do not want my profesion, 
sofware engineers to have that reputation.

Henri Yandel wrote:
"This is where we get into the question of whether the ASF have licenced
under an ASF licence, and not the LGPL licence of Elba, a piece of code
that is not licensable. If so, then they have legally broken a barrier.
Use of code is tricky, what if they have merely copied a design. I've not
seen anything in terms of open source test cases to suggest how open
open-source designs are."
The apprent position of ASF is that.. well it's same design but we have 
(former jBoss developers changing the implementation over time.
In esence, in music, same notes, but diferent performance ( same 
musicians.) You don't see how a PHB might hesiteate to hire an OSS suporter?

Can somone downlaod "Resin"EE (for example :-) source, and refactor and 
now they "own" it? Or take OrionServer and decompile and refactor, and 
now they "own" it?

Do ... or don't do what you want.
I am done with it.
.V

ps:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-dev&m=106858581404361&w=2
(I can see the water mill now, now... it's a Dragon)




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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo

[Vic Cekvenich]

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

I think that this is the right list, very few people are intrested about 
the incubator. This is about ASF reputation. (It is also about the OSS 
reputation, including BSD, Linux, CodeHus, etc.)
Due to this Stein mistake OSS could be view as very lowest form. Makes 
me think ... hmm, did Linux developers refactor SCO code? Shame.

I would like to know... does "ASF" claim that if they refactor offending 
code one by one, they feel they are clean?
or
If the code was imported and beeing refactored, that that is a probelm.

The ASF treats the allegations of code copying very seriously, and will 
take what actions are necessary to ensure that no IP rights are 
violated, any offending code, if found, is removed, and any other 
appropriate action is taken.

I have been thinking about it, I do not think removing the offeding code 
 is appropriate or sufficient.

If proven, I think offending devlopers, new or old should be baned from 
ASF (and other OSS projects) for a few years. The project should be 
parked. Let it live on SF, why shield it (becuase now ASF has to use 
their lawyers/resources)

ASF should publicly applogize, and as a sign of friendship with OSS, do 
something to help jBoss, such as help with J2EE certification, or help 
with code or something.

Did I say that Stein should be removed, as the person out of all the OSS 
projects out there, did most to ruin the high reputation, trough 
negligence or some other reason.

I feel dirty using Apache Struts today becuase of this mess. I already 
remvoed ASF licnese from basicPortal.sf.net when this was originaly done 
and uses a "commons" license or something like that.

However, you must allow the alleged violations to be vetted - just as 
you wouldn't take the ASF's word that all was fine w/o explanation, you 
shouldn't take JBoss claim of violation at face value either.  


http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101208
Above says:
"The version 1.1 and 1.2 do contain an interface with methods hinting to 
"the 3 maps design" Marc is talking about. "

This is fine proof for me.

I think some sort of joint commission should be set up, of people with 
fine reputation, to report in a certain timeframe as to what happened.

Also a sepreare group should find out what to do about it.
This is a crissis as big as any, IMO.
To the people that are siting on the sidelines:
Do something. It does not have to be public.
It is when silent majority sits on the hands, and allows immoral things 
to happen that the society loses.
This is about sofware, not about lawyers.

I will try to make this last message on the topic of ethics, its up to 
the people sitting on the hands to see this is as a problem and do 
something.

.V



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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo

[Vic Cekvenich]

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

The ASF treats the allegations of code copying very seriously, and will 
take what actions are necessary to ensure that no IP rights are 
violated, any offending code, if found, is removed, and any other 
appropriate action is taken.
GREAT!!! That is 99% of what I wanted to hear. I hope others are happy 
with this as well.

However, you must allow the alleged violations to be vetted - just as 
you wouldn't take the ASF's word that all was fine w/o explanation, you 
shouldn't take JBoss claim of violation at face value either.
GOOD! Of course, I like to jump ahead.

  Examine
the code - look for yourself.  Do you really think that the Geronimo 
developers would think they could steal JBoss code and get away with 
it?  
I do not know those guys, they are all new developers, they are not old 
ASF, but new.

Do you think that studly contributors to Geronimo need to steal
such visionary innovations like :

public boolean getStatus() {
   return status;
}
I did not understand why they would mention anything like that, that is 
not design. It's silly.

But is also silly to say.. and what else you want me to remove?

(or whatever the class field name is...)

Many of the claims by JBoss appear to me to be specious.  Deriving a 
class from log4j?  The example given by JBoss is a *log4j example* that 
both groups used as a basis for their logger. (Hey, Ceki!  Can we have 
trace???)  Using 'Interceptor' for the name of a class that's an 
interceptor?  Using IDEA-generated getters/setters for POJO fields?  
That is silly, but for all I know it's some legalize. Where are you 
going to find a jurry to talk about AOP design. Or same design, just a 
variation on implementation (also stealing IMO)

It's hard to imagine that any of this stuff will stand up to rational 
scrutiny.

These are old jBoss developers, not old ASF developers.
Now I did not consider, that jBoss would just claim teft via a lawyer, 
for no reason.


-Stein is the one that railroaded this project on the lists, a 
chairman. It is easy to trace messages that lead us to this.


He didn't "railroad" anything.  Many people support it, and much 
activity and work has gone into it.
All of it after the chairman started the ball. All kind of steps were 
done out of order, in a rush.


-Durign his "rule", ASF brand was embarased. What does it mean, ASF 
developer now?
How?


Ethics are embarasing. It does not appear right. One day, all this code 
just shows up at ASF doorstep, out of where? That was quick, quick 
coincidence timing.
At the time, I sent an e-mail, "let it live on sf.net for a while".
If not from jBoss, where did the code come from? I know, it was 
exaplained... via Magic.

If I use Apache Struts now, does this mean that... maybe this code is 
stolen? PHBs!




-Using ASF funds for this is a shame and a waste.


What funds?

Lawyers! ? Software engineers should use ethics, high ethics. Why not 
just resolve it that way? Why not move geronimo to sf.net, while this 
refactoring happens?

I am not going to itemze what Bill Burke said.

Just park the code for a while, it appears right. There is no down side. 
In a clean room, even BIOS can be "opened".

But, all of these guys are non ASF people. Or educate me, is there 
active comitters on Geronimo that are ASF oldtimers.
The point is, now ASF is in the middle of something that was very 
predictable and easily avoidable.
And since we rushed in, ... lets go the same way out, head proposer out 
first.
But I am fine with due diligence! As long as people involved are moved 
arround a bit, and incubator procedure be followed.

.V





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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo

[Vic Cekvenich]

I repeat:
 http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159
Geir, are you supporting his actions, the ethics in here, denying what 
that developer is saying, ie: that is not his code? I know my code when 
I see it. What part are you supporting, all of it?

-Stein is the one that railroaded this project on the lists, a chairman. 
It is easy to trace messages that lead us to this.
-Durign his "rule", ASF brand was embarased. What does it mean, ASF 
developer now?
-Using ASF funds for this is a shame and a waste.

I woud like for my profession to be ethical, the people that steal 
should not be in here amongs us, but where other people that steal are. 
What if a consultant you hire steals?

He can resign and get some nice "award"or, be voted out, together with 
other people the think stealing is OK. ASF money/resources is better 
spent putting people in Jail that do this to any other OSS project, and 
making sure they can't ever work in this industry.

Like lets say in China, they get the Coca-Cola recepie, and then they 
start selling Red-Cola... but it tastes the same beacuse it has the same 
recepie? Is this OK? You are not going to say, well lets see what they 
can legaly prove and what the lawyers say and then lets some time pass.

Ethics!

No need to go find montivation that got us here, let's just go back to 
before Geroniomo. Time in Las Vegas can be better spent.  No need to 
play games.

.V



Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

(and I call on Greg Stein to stay put...)

.V



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Call on Stein to resin

[Vic Cekvenich]

http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101159

http://theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22337#101173

I call on Greg Stein to resign.

.V





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Re: JSP editor for Eclipse

[Vic Cekvenich]

I have been using "colorer" plug in, that supports all html, jsp and 
xml, plus some.
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=34855
.V

Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Hello all,

I am looking for a JSP editor for Eclipse. Any recommendations on this 
front?

--
Victor Cekvenich,
Struts Instructor
(215) 321-9146
Advanced Struts Training
 Server Side Java
training with Rich UI, mentoring, designs, samples and project recovery
in North East.
Simple best practice basic Portal, a Struts CMS, Membership, Forums,
Shopping and Credit processing,  software, ready
to develop/customize; requires a db to run.


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Sign a Java Petition?

[Vic Cekvenich]

What led to it and a link in here:
http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=21727
.V



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OT: CNBC TV on Sun in 3 minutes (EOM)

[Vic Cekvenich]

OT: CNBC TV on Sun in 3 minutes (EOM)



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"jakarta" name - (?vote?)

[Vic Cekvenich]

This not a topic that anyone wants to bring up:
Should jakarta.apache.org be changed to xyz.apache.org?
Tomcat and Struts are better types names.
"Jakarta" name has a a bit of political connotations, some PHB might see 
as negtaive and has had for about a year now.
A non city name would be better.

.V



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Apache vote on TCK re Sun

[Vic Cekvenich]

http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=20005

http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=19942

As per above I Quote:
"though IBM and Motorola still voted no. There also appear to be some 
disagreements within the JCP board about the licensing of these specs. 
Sun apparently plans to charge a "Per unit royalty fee which will be 
dependent on volume."

Doug Lea voted with comment.

Apache vote with Sun with YES, without comment this says.

I am wondering why? Other voted YES with comment.

I personally wish they voted NO as they did in past on similar topic. I 
mean look at the implications, such as JBOSS is not J2EE (no big fan of 
EJB here),  this makes it harder to have a Jakarta project that is JCP.

Is anyone privy to ASF feeling on this topic related to open source in 
general and Java? I know there was some agreement btwn Sun and ASF.
JCP *is* Sun domintated, but not ASF, AFAIK
IBM seems more friendly to O.S, they said OK, but had a comment.

.V

ps: This is a possibility as well down the road:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030213.html
That is why my clients don't use Sun VM in favor of BEA J:Rockit, and 
IBM VM. Java would live past Sun, should the worst happen.



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Re: Apache vote on TCK re Sun

[Vic Cekvenich]

http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=20005

http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=19942

As per above I Quote:
"though IBM and Motorola still voted no. There also appear to be some 
disagreements within the JCP board about the licensing of these specs. 
Sun apparently plans to charge a "Per unit royalty fee which will be 
dependent on volume."

Doug Lea voted with comment.

Apache vote with Sun with YES, without comment this says.

I am wondering why? Other voted YES with comment.

I personally wish they voted NO as they did in past on similar topic. I 
mean look at the implications, such as JBOSS is not J2EE (no big fan of 
EJB here),  this makes it harder to have a Jakarta project that is JCP.

Is anyone privy to ASF feeling on this topic related to open source in 
general and Java? I know there was some agreement btwn Sun and ASF.
JCP *is* Sun domintated, but not ASF, AFAIK
IBM seems more friendly to O.S, they said OK, but had a comment.

.V

ps: This is a possibility as well down the road:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030213.html
That is why my clients don't use Sun VM in favor of BEA J:Rockit, and 
IBM VM. Java would live past Sun, should the worst happen.
http://www.penguincomputing.com/graphics/desktops/eclipse1280x1024.jpg



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Re: Apache/Jakarta @ JavaOne?

[Vic Cekvenich]

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-user&m=105362188413611&w=2

Struts, 13th at 4:30 PM an 21st Amendment Bar, above.
.V
Mark Womack - Apache wrote:
Are there any official or unofficial Jakarta/Apache activities planned around the JavaOne conference in SF?

-Mark


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Re: Sun

[Vic Cekvenich]

OK, when I worked for a J2EE company that got certified, developer group 
I would have lunch with, they said J2EE had 2 or 3 thousand tests 
or some silly #, and that hey had problems, and that test even were not 
clear to the point they could not run it.
They told me that Sun said that the other vendors did not even try, 
becuase they self certified.
Peace,
.V

Pier Fumagalli wrote:
"Vic Cekvenich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


FYI: The rumor is  from developers I know of a commercial J2EE
vendor that no one passes all the tests.
But since they pay, that makes you certified.


I worked for Sun Micro for almost two years, in the J2EE team, and unless
something changed in the policy over there (which I don't think, as I know
each single one in that team), this is absolutely untrue.
Pier


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Re: Sun

[Vic Cekvenich]

FYI: The rumor is  from developers I know of a commercial J2EE 
vendor that no one passes all the tests.
But since they pay, that makes you certified.

Good?:
I like free software, pay for services model. It's better than pay us 
for software, pay us to fix it model. Imagine all the budgeting and 
legal approvals you miss. One does not imagine Free consulting, eh?

Bad!:
I do not think highly of EJB or _any_ vendor that advocates EJBs. ANSI 
SQL works for me.

.V

Pier Fumagalli wrote:
"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Don't you think JBoss' huge success has something to do with Sun's
animosity? Every developer I know who has a say on the platform uses
JBoss: better product, better documentation, better support, lower
price.
Don't read me wrong: I'm on the JBoss-side on this, in that *the
project* should be able to present itself on a JUG event. When comparing
*JBossGroup* with the ASF however (if that would be possible at all), I
partially understand Pier's reservations. This doesn't mean SunBE is
right on this, however. The fact a (pardon me) marketing lowlife
believes he can silently get away with that is once again a great
occasion to help such people see the cluetrain is arriving.
I *would* agree if the other vendors weren't being permitted.  I fail to see
what compliance should have to do with it.  Its a Javapolis not a J2EEpolis.


All other vendors are permitted, and all other vendors had to pay for their
compliancy... Why is JBoss Group LLC different? Noone AFAIK ever told them
"no you can't", I believe they were just told "please pay the fee exactly
like every other vendor does".
Pier


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OT: OPen source required?

[Vic Cekvenich]

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-272299.html

Not sure if forceing is a good option, but I think any sofware 
"pruchase" should include source code.

.V



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MS vs Open Source link

[Vic Cekvenich]

Overall a good article.
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-985221.html?tag=fd_top

The scary thing is I have heard clients that they think that if they use 
any open source... now their software is open source or in a conflict 
with comerical software they are using.

.V



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Re: Incubator New Project Proposal: basicPortal.sf.net

[Vic Cekvenich]

Andrew, can you or someone help put this in as a project proposal?
Incubator? Wiki? Here?

I followed all the rules to propose a proejct, like OJB and Tapestry did.

Of course it runs Linux, it's only Tomcat. But Windoze users do not know 
how to edit server.xml to setup JDBC relms, etc. This thing out of the 
box setups an XML based portal based on Struts, JSTL, etc. It uses 
Jakarta projects, somewhat similar to JetSpeed.
Some of the comiters on it do not even do not even own Windoze, but 
Linux people do not need setup.exe, they could just use a WAR and 
execute SQL scripts! But yes, project is "dual" platform.

.V

Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Personally I stopped reading when it said .exe because it meant "won't 
run on any of your servers"..  I didn't think this feedback was worth 
providing, but there you have it.  Hope it helps.

Vic Cekvenich wrote:

- "Hello?"
- "Go away, the Wizard of Oz is doing Maven."
- "But I need a heart?"

Is mostly everyone indifferent to basicPortal?

basicPortal would kind of uses open source NullSoft to create 
setup.exe, and not Maven. (it that an angle to get some comments :)).

How about is General or Incubator the right place to bug? Any 
feeling/opinions?

http://www.mail-archive.com/mvc-programmers%40basebeans.net/msg1.html

.V


I would like to propose a project for the incubator, I also cc 
general list.

Background

Scope: basicPortal.sf.net, is a portal vertical applications suite, 
or a portal web application containing a set of frequently used 
vertical business applications that you install from setup.exe.
It use Jakarta many sub projects, it’s main verticals are CMS and 
Community building.
It is not a framework, but actual solutions to business problems/needs.
It’s based on Struts tiles, but includes Tomcat, a PostgreSQL  (which 
has a liberal license) DB, in which XML content is stored as a 
varchar filed in a db, and it is rendered via JSTL x:transform tag. 
One of it’s goals it to be able to run J:Meter right out of the box 
to find out how many transactions it can support. Also, it is being 
ported to Commons SQL for DAO.
The goal of it’s UI is something like “my.netscape.com” where you can 
move verticals around (some verticals like carigslist.com) so an 
admin can assign a suite for a “role” (based on JDBC Realms).

The problem so far has been to write sample apps for a Jakarta 
project, for example Master Detail processing of users in Struts, or 
JDBC Relms in Tomcat. This suite provides a place where a project can 
be plugged in.

It is similar to JetSpeed, but based on Struts and JSTL. It is 
similar to Forest and Caccon, one day jakarta web site could have 
it’s XML moved to something like basicPortal and have it be a dynamic 
content with RSS feeds, and approval, etc.
I believe JetSpeed can get better with some competition; Jakarta has 
a tradition of similar systems, such as Velocity, Turbine and Struts.

I think it should be in incubator and become a Jakarta project one 
day as a show case of what a business user can do with Jakarta. Most 
projects now are framework type for developers.

Community and Developers: It could use a better community and more 
involvement.
It’s developers list
https://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?group_id=55539
but I did most of the development.
I have several commercial sites that use it, and baseBeans.com is 
running it.
I have mailing list, that is not specific to basicPortal at
http://www.basebeans.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/mvc-programmers
It is as popular or more than OJB/Tapestry, the latest 2 projects.
BasicPortal will work more on building a community before and after 
acceptance, as is required by the Subproject proposal page. 
(“understand what it means to build a community”). One developer is 
using Nullsoft Open source setup to make a setup.
It is already packaged as org.apache.xyz


Alignment: It  also does try to demonstrate some of the good 
practices designs in developing an application that uses Tomcat, 
Struts, JSTL, SQL Commons, DBCP, J:meter, and any other Jakarta 
project, that could be used. I realy think some projects could build 
a demo app, since Tomcat and working PostgreSQL will be provided to 
basicPortal.
It’s an application that was developed using KISS, everything in it 
is simple code that is very teachable, and each pieces is simple.

Some of the features:
-New content can be approved (in a multi row update, so you can 
check a lot of content at once) before it is available.
-Wiki style, non approved comments on any page (from a comments 
db table)
-RSS based feed (digester based-into content table)
-Tomcat based declarative users security of JDBC realms (a users 
table, each role has it’s module actions)
-Modules for Contact Management (user table), Task tracking, 
E-mail web client, Store, Auction, Bloeger.
-It allows for people to upload an image into a DB (as BLOB) and 
disp

Re: Incubator New Project Proposal: basicPortal.sf.net

[Vic Cekvenich]

ruts Tiles Action (MVC), so as above, 
it can have several different presentations.
It can also have several different DB layers, such as RowSet or 
SQL-Commons. Other can be added by implementing a simple DAO interface. 
(we did not do OJB or JDO yet since they tend to be more heavyweight).

The system comes with PostGreSQL DB and can alternatively be installed 
via Setup.exe, since it is an application useful for business (as 
opposed to a framework like Struts that is used by a programmer).

Upon installation, once can immediately run J:Meter on it, to find out 
how quickly the master/detail processing would happen in your 
environment. It is popular to have performance of a system (and you can 
change your layers here).

And if I can say useful again, J:Meter is cool and so is DBCP, but when 
combined and we code a simple master/detail processing, now that is 
greater than the sum of the parts.

Other Jakarta projects might want to demo a sample of it’s features, and 
basicPortal could provide the rest, for example it’s working and 
updateable beans.


And I think we should move past the Apache HTTP static web server. 
Apache is not as powerful as a DB based Java CMS, such as basicPortal.
Also…. If you are old enough to remember the days of Shareware, things 
like Sidekick. I miss those days, when you could develop an application 
(not a framework) and offer it to the community. I hope for an explosion 
of web applications/share ware, free ware similar to basicPortal setup.exe.

Orphaned and Inexperience, etc: basicPortal is not. It has more 
production sites (non-compete) than Jetspeed, etc. Development on 
basicPortal has gone on for more than 6 months.

It has plenty of ties to Apache products, except where there are none.

Lastly, every now and then, there are talented people between the gigs. 
System programming is cool, but if we can write a killer bus. app., that 
can pay the bills.

BasicPortal is Apache license already. It does use JasperReports for 
repotting (Apache license) and PostgreSQL, both of which are non-Jakrta, 
and it comes out of the box with Eclipse, like Jboss. So you get a full 
environment for the download.

It will also cross over to xml.apache, for Soap and Forest features to 
make dynamic db.

BasicPortal can be named something else (Jasic? for Jakarta Basic ), or 
have logos, or some other infrastructure. It’s future, as always, 
depends on the kind souls that implement features like to see. So I am 
all for Meritocracy. I would not mind at all if someone with more 
Jakarta background decided to guide it some.

Summary:

basicPortal leverages a combination of Jakarta projects to solve 
business problems, and shows some ways of writing a CMS/Community 
project for high performance sites via dynamic and not static content, 
as well as commonly needed verticals. 80% of projects need for example 
container based authentication and a way to manage users/roles. So start 
with something that works and just do the missing parts.
It is always in the top 10% of sf.net and has about 1,600 downloads per 
month.
I would like to re-package the screens/src and place on Jakarta, if you 
like the idea.

more info at basicPortal.sf.net


Vic Cekvenich




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Incubator New Project Proposal: basicPortal.sf.net

[Vic Cekvenich]

 used by a programmer).

Upon installation, once can immediately run J:Meter on it, to find out 
how quickly the master/detail processing would happen in your 
environment. It is popular to have performance of a system (and you can 
change your layers here).

And if I can say useful again, J:Meter is cool and so is DBCP, but when 
combined and we code a simple master/detail processing, now that is 
greater than the sum of the parts.

Other Jakarta projects might want to demo a sample of it’s features, and 
basicPortal could provide the rest, for example it’s working and 
updateable beans.


And I think we should move past the Apache HTTP static web server. 
Apache is not as powerful as a DB based Java CMS, such as basicPortal.
Also…. If you are old enough to remember the days of Shareware, things 
like Sidekick. I miss those days, when you could develop an application 
(not a framework) and offer it to the community. I hope for an explosion 
of web applications/share ware, free ware similar to basicPortal setup.exe.

Orphaned and Inexperience, etc: basicPortal is not. It has more 
production sites (non-compete) than Jetspeed, etc. Development on 
basicPortal has gone on for more than 6 months.

It has plenty of ties to Apache products, except where there are none.

Lastly, every now and then, there are talented people between the gigs. 
System programming is cool, but if we can write a killer bus. app., that 
can pay the bills.

BasicPortal is Apache license already. It does use JasperReports for 
repotting (Apache license) and PostgreSQL, both of which are non-Jakrta, 
and it comes out of the box with Eclipse, like Jboss. So you get a full 
environment for the download.

It will also cross over to xml.apache, for Soap and Forest features to 
make dynamic db.

BasicPortal can be named something else (Jasic? for Jakarta Basic ), or 
have logos, or some other infrastructure. It’s future, as always, 
depends on the kind souls that implement features like to see. So I am 
all for Meritocracy. I would not mind at all if someone with more 
Jakarta background decided to guide it some.

Summary:

basicPortal leverages a combination of Jakarta projects to solve 
business problems, and shows some ways of writing a CMS/Community 
project for high performance sites via dynamic and not static content, 
as well as commonly needed verticals. 80% of projects need for example 
container based authentication and a way to manage users/roles. So start 
with something that works and just do the missing parts.
It is always in the top 10% of sf.net and has about 1,600 downloads per 
month.
I would like to re-package the screens/src and place on Jakarta, if you 
like the idea.

more info at basicPortal.sf.net


Vic Cekvenich













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Re: JakartaOne to be Cancelled ...

[Vic Cekvenich]

Just in case...let me repeat an offer:
I am teaching a commercial Struts class on the 28th AM. At 11AM it will 
be over (any Jakarta comitter could come for free or/and I could do a 
quick thing Struts presentation for Jakarta)
I have paid for the room for the duration of the day and will have a 
large projector so this is free to Jakarta, (the room and projector for 
a few hours.
There will be at 20 Struts people, and by posting to a few Jakarta 
groups, you would get more people. So I am willing to help promote it 
(see news.basebeans.com or baseBeans.com/news.jsp) somehow. Not looking 
for anything back.

Otherwise, I would like to meet a few of you in a resturant/bar.

Vic

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

> Due to a perceived lack of interest, I believe we must cancel JakartaOne
> this year, unless people step up to help make this happen.
> 
> We should make sure that when this happens, it is an unqualified success.  I
> feel responsible for this ending like this, but my time constraints this
> month are such that I am greatly overextended, and naively assumed a
> different volunteer response.  Jon, of course, has since explained the
> errors of my ways :)
> 
> I received very enthusiastic support from some people who were excited about
> the idea, and want to thank all that showed support and took the time to
> submit suggestions for talks.  They were great, and I hope that they can do
> the talk somewhere, sometime - useful stuff.  But all in all, I got about 16
> replies privately, plus a few publicly, and that doesn't warrant the risk of
> setting things up in StudioZ (is the .tv required here? :)
> 
> So I would like to go back out on the limb and suggest that we choose a nice
> restaurant/bar somewhere reasonably accessible to the JavaOne attendees and
> all meet there one evening to meet each other.
> 
> If someone with local knowledge would suggest a place, that would be great.
> 
> geir
> 
> 



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[Fwd: Re: JakartaOne

[Vic Cekvenich]

I would be happy to sponsor a hotel conference room, ie. FREE room, 
screen and projector on the 28th, say noon - end of day. (I have paid 
for an extra room)


I am holding a paid Struts class AM on the same day.

Let me know if/how I can assist more.
Feel free to fill up the agenda, I could do a FREE 30 minute version of 
Struts if needed.

Vic


> 
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: JakartaOne?
> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 06:15:05 -0500
> From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> On 3/4/02 1:25 AM, "James Strachan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
>>JavaOne is around the corner. Do any Jakarta folks fancy a JavaOne get
>>together in a bar somewhere? Maybe Jon's new bar?
>>
>>
> 
> I was thinking about this earlier in feb, but wasn't sure we had the
> time...
> 
> I wanted to call it 'OpenOne' (but 'JakartaOne' is nice...) and use a
> space
> like Jon's where we could have both a social gathering as well as some
> short
> technical talks on things that didn't make it into JavaOne (for example,
> if
> it didn't have anything to do with XML or web services).
> 
> Here's what I had so far as a draft :
> 
> I would like to get a sense of community interest for the following idea
> 
> Proposal
> 
> 
> Hold an off-site convention during the week of JavaOne to provide a
> venue
> for topics that didn't make the cut for JavaOne as well as topics that
> did,
> of course.  Examples include (imagination challenged right now...)
> 
>  o bastard J2EE technologies
>- template engines (could you guess I would suggest this ?)
>- publishing frameworks (Cocoon et al)
>- web app frameworks (Turbine, Maverick, Struts)
>- ?
> 
>  o mainstream technologies
>- web services (I want to hear Sam talk about Axis :)
>- XML-RPC 
>- ?
>  
>  o community discussions
>- JSPA issues
>- ?
> 
>  o other stuff
>- how about JDD talking about Objective C
>- Gump sociology
>- Maven
> 
> 
> Rationale
> -
> 
> There are a lot of interesting things in the world that Sun's marketing
> crew
> doesn't have space or interest for at JavaOne.   Many of these things
> are in
> daily production use by people, and it would be nice to hear about them.
> 
> Many developers will be in the area for this week, and if we could find
> a
> way to bring us together for both social interaction as well as learning
> about some of the topics we work on and are interested in, it seems like
> a
> win all around.
> 
> Thoughts
> 
> 
> We have an in with an event space in San Francisco (hey, Jon!) and from
> what
> I understand, it has two distinct spaces, one of which can serve
> alcohol.
> So we can divide, cleanly, the social space and the technical space. 
> Those
> in the social space can bring their own, I guess :)
> 
> However, I think if we do this, we should pay for the space (unless
> studio.tv wants the publicity :), and there lies a conflict of interest
> problem, but I assume that if the rate is competitive, as I am sure it
> will
> be, we can all look the other way.
> 
> I don't know if we have the time to pull it off - it would be nice to
> put
> something non-lame together.  I think we shouldn't be aggressive about
> this
> - find a spot in the schedule so people aren't torn between J1 and
> this...
> 
> 
> 



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EJB = bad = MS.net

[Vic Cekvenich]

Home page of Jakarta has this
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0130.2
on this:
http://www.mail-archive.com/general%40jakarta.apache.org/msg03376.html

I agree. Doing EJBs is bad on many levels and creates more problems. 
Avoid EJB if you want to stay in Java.

Alternative is to just use Struts + TomCat + RowSet (or DAO if you are 
doing something simple or small) and done. This is the sweet spot. MVC 
is all you need.

Alternative, do EJBs and your organization WILL switch to MS .NET on the 
next project, leave J2EE, and you have to learn VB.net.

EJBs are for newbies. (If you need middleware (very rare) use SOAP)

lol,
Vic



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