Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[V. Cekvenich]

Ah... I am sure that it is obvious, but we can write one like 
http://www.basebeans.com/do/bbRssNews, see how you can click and comment?
Done in Struts+JSTL, source code in basicPortal.sf.net. (CVS version 
uses  CommonsSQL to CRUD).

Not PHP plz in Jakrta.

.V

Henri Gomez wrote:
Brian Ewins wrote:


I'd disagree. I've yet to see a web based forum that has 
searching/threading of discussions that are as good as what a mail 
client can do, or one where I can have the entire forum offline with 
me while I read/reply at my leisure.


I've setup many forum, and my preference goes
to YABBSE (www.yabbse.org).

Another things I'd like to see on apache.org,
and something used by many jakarta developpers,
ie weblogs, and for instance MT from moveabletype.org,
(www.movabletype.org).

Should it be possible to install MT 2.51 on apache.org ?




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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Henri Gomez]

Brian Ewins wrote:

I'd disagree. I've yet to see a web based forum that has 
searching/threading of discussions that are as good as what a mail 
client can do, or one where I can have the entire forum offline with me 
while I read/reply at my leisure.

I've setup many forum, and my preference goes
to YABBSE (www.yabbse.org).

Another things I'd like to see on apache.org,
and something used by many jakarta developpers,
ie weblogs, and for instance MT from moveabletype.org,
(www.movabletype.org).

Should it be possible to install MT 2.51 on apache.org ?





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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[James Taylor]

> Note the wiki isn't for that purpose or I'd agree with you.  Its for 
> creating documentation (something we are still lacking in).  I hate it 
> for the purpose of discussion, preferring mail lists for that, and the 
> talking points summed up (I hate searching through 6 years of archive to 

I'm a big fan of http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ThreadMode, great for distilling
discussion into document content since the refactoring is naturally
iterative.

> find out why a particular decision was made)...  Note that the wiki is 
> also not for the "pretty" stuff.  Once the wiki generates a page worth 
> formalizing, it should be dumped into XML (IMHO) for convenient transform.

Ugh, turning a succinct readable format like wiki markup into XML? What
a shame.

(insert plug for reStructuredText here)

-- jt


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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Andrew C. Oliver]

Part of why I also hate wiki...same problem. I can have the website email me
when there is an update, but then that defeats the purpose.
 

Note the wiki isn't for that purpose or I'd agree with you.  Its for 
creating documentation (something we are still lacking in).  I hate it 
for the purpose of discussion, preferring mail lists for that, and the 
talking points summed up (I hate searching through 6 years of archive to 
find out why a particular decision was made)...  Note that the wiki is 
also not for the "pretty" stuff.  Once the wiki generates a page worth 
formalizing, it should be dumped into XML (IMHO) for convenient transform.

I find forums really inconvienient for discussion.  Heck mozilla annoys 
me enough (long story why I'm back on it)... No spell checker.  (which 
is why I misspell everything lately)

-Andy

-jon


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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Kurt Schrader]

On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Henri Yandell wrote:

> IRC is good for all three, but lacks another important aspect,
> persistence.

IRC Persistence:
http://irc.werken.com/channels/maven/

-Kurt


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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 2003/1/15 3:12 AM, "Robert Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mailing lists are not as good as forums for communication.
> 
> --Robert

That is your opinion. They have worked well here since 1997. I hate the idea
that I would have to go check a website to read discussions and I hate the
text input fields on web browsers as an editor.

Part of why I also hate wiki...same problem. I can have the website email me
when there is an update, but then that defeats the purpose.

-jon


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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Henri Yandell]

[Someone else just emailed this, but sending to show my agreement]

There's that GMane thing that lets you view the mailing lists as a forum?

Personally I've not found any forums as easy to use as a mailing list.
Communication in a community is in three ways:

1) Multi-cast
2) Direct communication, 1 to 1
3) Specific broadcast to a select group

Mailing lists are good at 1), via a list like this, they can do 2 via
simple email and 3 via specific mailing lists. It's hard to run a thread
across them though.

A forum is worse. It can do 1 well. 3 can be done, though a bit of a pain.
2 usually relies on internal mail on the forum, or external links into
your email.

IRC is good for all three, but lacks another important aspect,
persistence. I prefer the 'mud' communication, but they're analagous to
irc I guess. IRC also lacks the concept of threading. This is descending
into my pointless opinion on communication :)

Hen



On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Robert Simmons wrote:

> What I meant is on the main Jakarta site. I have used Jakarta for a while
> and never even knew about that address. Probably the reason no one uses it.
> Mailing lists are not as good as forums for communication.
>
> --Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?
>
>
> On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:26, Robert Simmons wrote:
> > It would seem to me that the installation of a forum on the Jakarta site
> > would dramatically improve communication and the ability of the users to
> > collaborate on using and improving Jakarta software. PhpBB, for example,
> is
> > free and can be downloaded from www.phpBB.com and offers many of the
> > features users would find helpful. I would highly suggest this move for
> the
> > Jakarta site.
>
> checkout nagoya.apache.org. It has a forum ... no one uses it ;)
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
> *-*
> | Contrary to popular belief, UNIX is user-friendly. It   |
> | just happens to be selective on who it makes friendship |
> | with.   |
> |   - Richard Cook|
> *-*
>
>
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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Brian Ewins]

I'd disagree. I've yet to see a web based forum that has 
searching/threading of discussions that are as good as what a mail 
client can do, or one where I can have the entire forum offline with me 
while I read/reply at my leisure.

Since you mention a specific example, I've experienced phpBB (on the 
shatters.net forum for celestia) . Its got a very weak discussion model; 
there is one message at the 'top' of a discussion within a forum, and 
all other messages are assumed to be replies to that one. This makes it 
more difficult to follow what short messages are in reply /to/.

A further problem with forums is that they would balkanize discussion of 
projects. You end up having to read /both/ the mailing list and the 
forum to find things out. An example of something like this is the irc 
channels that the maven project uses[1] - more than once you'll see folk 
being referred from irc to the eyebrowse mail archives, or from the 
mailing list to irc, to get background on whats going on.  Web forums 
would do the same, and I can't see a single advantage of web forums 
other than getting a cartoon character at the side of your message?

If you want something more forum-y, you could try using the newsfeed 
version of the mailing lists on gmane?

Cheers,
Baz

Disclaimer - not a committer, so my opinion doesnt even matter to me ;)

[1]  I'm not arguing against IRC here. It provides real-time comms, 
while mail/news/forums allow responses to be delayed until sunup in your TZ.

Robert Simmons wrote:

What I meant is on the main Jakarta site. I have used Jakarta for a while
and never even knew about that address. Probably the reason no one uses it.
Mailing lists are not as good as forums for communication.

--Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?


On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:26, Robert Simmons wrote:
 

It would seem to me that the installation of a forum on the Jakarta site
would dramatically improve communication and the ability of the users to
collaborate on using and improving Jakarta software. PhpBB, for example,
   

is
 

free and can be downloaded from www.phpBB.com and offers many of the
features users would find helpful. I would highly suggest this move for
   

the
 

Jakarta site.
   


checkout nagoya.apache.org. It has a forum ... no one uses it ;)

--
Cheers,

Peter Donald
*-*
| Contrary to popular belief, UNIX is user-friendly. It   |
| just happens to be selective on who it makes friendship |
| with.   |
|   - Richard Cook|
*-*



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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Robert Simmons]

What I meant is on the main Jakarta site. I have used Jakarta for a while
and never even knew about that address. Probably the reason no one uses it.
Mailing lists are not as good as forums for communication.

--Robert

- Original Message -
From: "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?


On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:26, Robert Simmons wrote:
> It would seem to me that the installation of a forum on the Jakarta site
> would dramatically improve communication and the ability of the users to
> collaborate on using and improving Jakarta software. PhpBB, for example,
is
> free and can be downloaded from www.phpBB.com and offers many of the
> features users would find helpful. I would highly suggest this move for
the
> Jakarta site.

checkout nagoya.apache.org. It has a forum ... no one uses it ;)

--
Cheers,

Peter Donald
*-*
| Contrary to popular belief, UNIX is user-friendly. It   |
| just happens to be selective on who it makes friendship |
| with.   |
|   - Richard Cook|
*-*



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Re: Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Peter Donald]

On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:26, Robert Simmons wrote:
> It would seem to me that the installation of a forum on the Jakarta site
> would dramatically improve communication and the ability of the users to
> collaborate on using and improving Jakarta software. PhpBB, for example, is
> free and can be downloaded from www.phpBB.com and offers many of the
> features users would find helpful. I would highly suggest this move for the
> Jakarta site.

checkout nagoya.apache.org. It has a forum ... no one uses it ;)

-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald
*-*
| Contrary to popular belief, UNIX is user-friendly. It   |
| just happens to be selective on who it makes friendship |
| with.   |
|   - Richard Cook|
*-* 



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Forum Software for Jakarta?

[Robert Simmons]

It would seem to me that the installation of a forum on the Jakarta site would 
dramatically improve communication and the ability of the users to collaborate on 
using and improving Jakarta software. PhpBB, for example, is free and can be 
downloaded from www.phpBB.com and offers many of the features users would find 
helpful. I would highly suggest this move for the Jakarta site. 

-- Robert