RE: Commons-modeler release request
On Wed, 2006-05-24 at 18:00 -0400, Henri Yandell wrote: On Wed, 24 May 2006, Bill Barker wrote: -Original Message- From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Backwards incompatible shouldn't be a worry (imo), that's what major version numbers are for - but if you mean that Tomcat would need specific deep down customisations, that does sound like a problem. A realization that the component design just doesn't work anymore. Backwards incompatible was never really a big concern. The discussion on [EMAIL PROTECTED] was more focused on the fact that [modeler] doesn't have a community, so there wouldn't be enough people for 3 +1s to release it. So far, there aren't any special Tomcat-specific customizations in Tomcat's fork. There is work to reduce it's footprint, but that would just make it a 2.0 version. In terms of community - due to history you're all still Jakarta committers afaik and mostly on the PMC, so lots of +1s there. we had a bit of a crisis of confidence over commons releases late last year but i think that we're over that now. we're now using the correct voting scheme which is binding votes for all pmc'ers (no more component specific voting). Plus with the recent move to mostly jakarta-wide svn authentication, you also now have svn access. +1 if it's just a push towards a release that's needed, i'm willing to help out if there's anything useful i can do. So in terms of future direction, I don't think there's anything stopping Tomcat from being the driving part of the community for modeler. Struts definitely does that with some of the components that it is dependent on. The original idea of Commons as I understand it was as a place for Jakarta projects to come together. The diaspora out of Jakarta has lessened that and I think we should be expanding to thinking about it as a place for Apache projects to come together. It definitely helps that our committer based covers 25% of the ASF already :) +1 - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons-modeler release request
Hola, I believe a couple of the Tomcat committers (Costin for sure, another one or two maybe) are interested in commons-modeller, its maintenance, and its future. Yoav On 5/24/06, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1, assuming normal voting is done on jakarta-commons-dev (in case people are not on general). Anyone know of a maintainer for commons-modeller or is it kind-of dormant at this point ? Mvgr, Martin David Jencks wrote: The Geronimo-Tomcat integration has some problems with the last released version I can find, commons-modeler-1.1.jar, released 10 aug 2003. These problems are detailed at http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ GERONIMO-1999 and http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi? id=39521 Briefly, an incompatibility with the jsr-77 spec was fixed a long time ago, and we've found a synchronization problem and recently provided a patch that appears to fix it. We're getting the Geronimo 1.1 release ready and would really like to use an officially released jar of commons-modeler rather than having to copy the code into geronimo svn and produce a custom jar from that. Could anyone take a look at the patch, apply it if it appears OK, and work on getting a 1.2 release of commons-modeler out? Many thanks, david jencks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yoav Shapira Nimalex LLC 1 Mifflin Place, Suite 310 Cambridge, MA, USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] / www.yoavshapira.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons-modeler release request
David Jencks wrote: The Geronimo-Tomcat integration has some problems with the last released version I can find, commons-modeler-1.1.jar, released 10 aug 2003. These problems are detailed at http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-1999 and http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=39521 Briefly, an incompatibility with the jsr-77 spec was fixed a long time ago, and we've found a synchronization problem and recently provided a patch that appears to fix it. We're getting the Geronimo 1.1 release ready and would really like to use an officially released jar of commons-modeler rather than having to copy the code into geronimo svn and produce a custom jar from that. Could anyone take a look at the patch, apply it if it appears OK, and work on getting a 1.2 release of commons-modeler out? How do people feel about upgrading the minimum Java requirement from 1.2 to 1.3 for modeler? I had a look at MODELER-3 [1] and have found a solution for it, but the solution requires that we upgrade one of the dependencies, and the new version is for Java 1.3. Although I'm not sure that it is a runtime dependency on Java 1.3, it might be a compile time dependency. [1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MODELER-3 -- Dennis Lundberg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons-modeler release request
I'm more surprised to hear that Tomcat have a fork of modeler; I thought it was Tomcat that created it in the first place. This is indicative of a larger problem with Commons I think - why are people not attracted into getting involved with the commons source and instead have their own versions? What can be changed to not scare people away? Hen On Wed, 24 May 2006, Will Glass-Husain wrote: I'm surprised that this effort is not a subproject of Tomcat or Geronimo. Maybe there'd be less frustration all around if it was adopted by one or the other. WILL Bill Barker wrote: I've been pretty much the only maintainer of [modeler] for a very long time. Since it basically has no community, I'm not particularly in favor of a release that will have little oversight. So -0 from me. However, before a release, MODELER-15 should probably be fixed (e.g. by deprecating the DOM source and using the [digester] source instead, like in Tomcat's fork of [modeler]). -Original Message- From: Martin van den Bemt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:12 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Commons-modeler release request +1, assuming normal voting is done on jakarta-commons-dev (in case people are not on general). Anyone know of a maintainer for commons-modeller or is it kind-of dormant at this point ? Mvgr, Martin David Jencks wrote: The Geronimo-Tomcat integration has some problems with the last released version I can find, commons-modeler-1.1.jar, released 10 aug 2003. These problems are detailed at http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ GERONIMO-1999 and http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi? id=39521 Briefly, an incompatibility with the jsr-77 spec was fixed a long time ago, and we've found a synchronization problem and recently provided a patch that appears to fix it. We're getting the Geronimo 1.1 release ready and would really like to use an officially released jar of commons-modeler rather than having to copy the code into geronimo svn and produce a custom jar from that. Could anyone take a look at the patch, apply it if it appears OK, and work on getting a 1.2 release of commons-modeler out? Many thanks, david jencks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) listed above as the intended recipient(s), and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not read, copy, or distribute this message or any attachment. If you received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and then delete all copies of this message and any attachments. In addition you should be aware that ordinary (unencrypted) e-mail sent through the Internet is not secure. Do not send confidential or sensitive information, such as social security numbers, account numbers, personal identification numbers and passwords, to us via ordinary (unencrypted) e-mail. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forio Business Simulations Will Glass-Husain phone (415) 440-7500 x89 mobile (415) 235-4293 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.forio.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons-modeler release request
On Wed, 24 May 2006, David Jencks wrote: I see that this issue is now in JIRA I couldn't find jira/modeler when I filed the bugs, was I blind or have these been imported from bugzilla recently? We moved to JIRA a week ago - so very recent :) Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons-modeler release request
Hola, I'm more surprised to hear that Tomcat have a fork of modeler; I thought it was Tomcat that created it in the first place. Yeah, it was Tomcat that created it in the first place. The fork is very very recent IIRC, and an imperfect development due to a larger problem, as you wrote: This is indicative of a larger problem with Commons I think - why are people not attracted into getting involved with the commons source and instead have their own versions? Not sure. With modeler, and dbcp, and maybe other commons projects, they were spun out of the original project (tomcat) in order to create a community around them, make them more generic, allow other projects (within Apache and outside) to use them easily, etc. But over time, for whatever reasons, these didn't happen with modeler. Now from the Tomcat perspective, we have a dilemma: we can't make backwards-incompatible changes to modeler that are very specific to Tomcat because then we break the contract that was made when modeler became its own component. What can be changed to not scare people away? Not sure. Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commons-modeler release request
On Wed, 24 May 2006, Yoav Shapira wrote: This is indicative of a larger problem with Commons I think - why are people not attracted into getting involved with the commons source and instead have their own versions? Not sure. With modeler, and dbcp, and maybe other commons projects, they were spun out of the original project (tomcat) in order to create a community around them, make them more generic, allow other projects (within Apache and outside) to use them easily, etc. But over time, for whatever reasons, these didn't happen with modeler. Now from the Tomcat perspective, we have a dilemma: we can't make backwards-incompatible changes to modeler that are very specific to Tomcat because then we break the contract that was made when modeler became its own component. Backwards incompatible shouldn't be a worry (imo), that's what major version numbers are for - but if you mean that Tomcat would need specific deep down customisations, that does sound like a problem. A realization that the component design just doesn't work anymore. Does Geronimo use modeler independently, or via Tomcat? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
