[gentoo-dev] Any official position from Gentoo about systemd, mdev and udev-static ?
Hi everyone, I don't want to start a flamewar on that subject, but I would like to know if there's any official position about the current situation. I saw on the forum this thread : https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-934678-highlight-.html and maybe it could be part of a solution to have OpenRC and udev together. So, is there any developments lately ? Thanks ! d2_racing -- Salut alp Sylvain
Re: [gentoo-dev] Any official position from Gentoo about systemd, mdev and udev-static ?
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Sylvain Alain d2racing...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I don't want to start a flamewar on that subject, but I would like to know if there's any official position about the current situation. There is not. But thanks for starting the flamewar just the same. :) I saw on the forum this thread : https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-934678-highlight-.html and maybe it could be part of a solution to have OpenRC and udev together. I'm sure nobody would object to somebody putting it in the tree - somebody just has to do it, or start their own overlay. The systemd folks would seem to prefer to just bundle udev with systemd anyway, making it a virtual. Gentoo is about choice. Perhaps some day installing a sysvinit implementation will be like installing a cron daemon. Or, perhaps it will become a nightmare as the various forks all strive to make life as difficult as possible for anybody using the wrong one. So, is there any developments lately ? Uh, probably only about 500 emails in the last two months. I'd suggest reading the archives, but they'll probably look like the archives on every other distro -dev mailing list. Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Any official position from Gentoo about systemd, mdev and udev-static ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 28/08/12 11:47 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Sylvain Alain d2racing...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I don't want to start a flamewar on that subject, but I would like to know if there's any official position about the current situation. There is not. But thanks for starting the flamewar just the same. :) SYSTEMD OR DEATH!!! ..err.. UDEV FREEDOM FOREVER!!! ... (that about covers it, yeah? so we can all move on now?) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlA86t4ACgkQ2ugaI38ACPBuHQD9FsdNxrjY6UTTpHkp81IkSrcl z0HaPLKC9Ju1orRaQQgA/10Yn29tSt54yc8ieftOeAK2v9+rX4rbl17cLKy+TYOL =86v4 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Any official position from Gentoo about systemd, mdev and udev-static ?
On 08/28/2012 10:35 AM, Sylvain Alain wrote: Hi everyone, I don't want to start a flamewar on that subject, but I would like to know if there's any official position about the current situation. I saw on the forum this thread : https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-934678-highlight-.html and maybe it could be part of a solution to have OpenRC and udev together. So, is there any developments lately ? Thanks ! d2_racing Maybe something to get at least some general direction from council, though probably too technical. -- -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Any official position from Gentoo about systemd, mdev and udev-static ?
On 28 August 2012 12:59, Matthew Thode prometheanf...@gentoo.org wrote: On 08/28/2012 10:35 AM, Sylvain Alain wrote: Hi everyone, I don't want to start a flamewar on that subject, but I would like to know if there's any official position about the current situation. I saw on the forum this thread : https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-934678-highlight-.html and maybe it could be part of a solution to have OpenRC and udev together. So, is there any developments lately ? Thanks ! d2_racing Maybe something to get at least some general direction from council, though probably too technical. -- -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) I think this issue is currently in far too murky of a state to get any well-informed issue from the council. Perhaps when the issues get hammered out a bit more, but not currently.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Any official position from Gentoo about systemd, mdev and udev-static ?
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Jeff Horelick jdh...@gentoo.org wrote: I think this issue is currently in far too murky of a state to get any well-informed issue from the council. Perhaps when the issues get hammered out a bit more, but not currently. I tend to agree. Taking a position for or against some piece of technology doesn't really make sense. Making a decision on some implementation detail that has a real impact on the distro makes sense. It is hard to anticipate what kinds of crises will continue to arise. So, best to deal with them one at a time. Of course, it would be best if the various package maintainers could talk to each other to anticipate issues BEFORE they arise. If upstream wants to rename or move half their binaries and the maintainers want to follow upstream, I don't have a big problem with that per se, but at least talk about it on the lists before unmasking things/etc. Best to keep the council decisions actionable. And it is probably best to let the directly impacted maintainers be the ones to appeal to the council if the concern is breakage/etc. If we were less of an enthusiast/choice distro then the obviously solution would be to just ship a working udev and wait and see how the whole mess works itself out elsewhere. It will be messy for a while for Gentoo, because we generally strive to be interesting. :) Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Any official position from Gentoo about systemd, mdev and udev-static ?
On 08/28/2012 05:35 PM, Sylvain Alain wrote: Hi everyone, I don't want to start a flamewar on that subject, but I would like to know if there's any official position about the current situation. udev might or might not eventually get forked to avoid systemd borg-approach. mdev works fine for a number of people and they are working on getting better support for it even if some guys sometimes try to stomp over them for silly reasons. openrc during the summer got new features developed both for prefix users and for general public hopefully will get merged soon. The consensus is trying to support what makes sense of systemd and let people use it if they really want but not force it upon people happy or needing openrc. Beside that you have drama since there are strong opinions on how broken systemd is or how cool it is. I saw on the forum this thread : https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-934678-highlight-.html and maybe it could be part of a solution to have OpenRC and udev together. So, is there any developments lately ? Lots =) lu
Re: [gentoo-dev] Any official position from Gentoo about systemd, mdev and udev-static ?
On 29 August 2012 01:36, Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: On 08/28/2012 05:35 PM, Sylvain Alain wrote: Hi everyone, I don't want to start a flamewar on that subject, but I would like to know if there's any official position about the current situation. udev might or might not eventually get forked to avoid systemd borg-approach. mdev works fine for a number of people and they are working on getting better support for it even if some guys sometimes try to stomp over them for silly reasons. openrc during the summer got new features developed both for prefix users and for general public hopefully will get merged soon. The consensus is trying to support what makes sense of systemd and let people use it if they really want but not force it upon people happy or needing openrc. Beside that you have drama since there are strong opinions on how broken systemd is or how cool it is. I saw on the forum this thread : https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-934678-highlight-.html and maybe it could be part of a solution to have OpenRC and udev together. So, is there any developments lately ? Lots =) lu I think this is a fairly good overview of the current situation. The way I see it: Gentoo defaults to OpenRC and stand-alone udev. This is not going to change any time soon. Because some developers think systemd is a worthwhile alternative, they are making it possible for Gentoo users to switch to using this if they want to. Gentoo is about choice, after all. But there is also strong opposition towards systemd and the our way or no way attitude of its core developers, so it is unlikely Gentoo will adopt systemd. It would be too controversial and lead to a rift in the developer community. For now udev is still usable without systemd, even tho upstream is making it difficult to build udev separately (and avoid unnecessary build-time dependencies). Upstream is also unwilling to work with us to make this easier. Despite upstream promises that udev will remain usable stand-alone, there is a lot of skepticism towards that. So we may find ourselves faced with the need to use a fork or a replacement for udev. Right now the situation is in flux, so we are basically waiting to see how things will develop. -- Cheers, Ben | yngwin Gentoo developer Gentoo Qt project lead, Gentoo Wiki admin
