Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On 05:30 Wed 26 May , Jeroen Roovers wrote: > To follow up on that, we could add some language to the point that if > it takes more than X days (say a week) then assignment to maintainers > proper should go through. This could be especially important when bugs > do seem relevant but should be looked at by someone (or a freakin' whole > "herd") with somewhat more intimate knowledge of the package in > question. > Another idea crossed my mind when I was bug-wrangling the other day, that could help, until Robin's "automatic assignment computation of bugs"[1] gets implemented and becomes reality. What if we create a partial-bug-wranglers mail alias, write a cron job to calculate statistics from from the bug-wranglers queue and send mails to that alias according to various rules eg. to send mail when the queue passed a limit of bugs eg. 100 or 200 unassigned, or statistics about how many bugs that were reported before more than a week are still in the queue. This way, people like me, who are willing to do partial bug-wrangling, they just add themselves in the alias and get activated only when the queue is huge or there are many old bugs around. The mails could work well as a reminder and we avoid the huge bug-wranlgers mail traffic when we monitor them in bugzie. I don't have time now, to implement any of this, I don't know even if it's a good idea, but if you like it, I could try to write a working script in some weeks (thanks to Jeremy(darkside) for showing me the pybugz magic and Christian(idl0r) for the curl magic). [1] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/66279 -- Panagiotis Christopoulos ( pchrist ) ( Gentoo Lisp Project ) pgp54AaVjRZQK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
Mike Frysinger writes: > the bug reporter can open their own bugs. gentoo developers can open any > bug. > that's about it. Which can be a pain for other users who suffered the same bug (and are probably on the CC list), the maintainer says to re-open if the problem is not fixed, the user finds the problem is still there but the bug reporter does not re-open the bug. All you can do is add a comment and hope that a developer sees it and re-opens the bug.
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tuesday 25 May 2010 22:58:43 Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:24:05 -0400 Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Tuesday 18 May 2010 02:02:01 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> > > could you please help the poor bug wranglers a bit?! The queue has
> > > reached 170 unassigned bugs...
> >
> > people dont seem to realize that bug-wranglers isnt just for
> > re-assigning to the proper maintainer. they are supposed to be doing
> > basic triage, user feedback, as well as cleaning up the bug. i
> > shouldnt be seeing bugs assigned to maintainers that have
> > "${PN}-1.ebuild" as their subject, nor bugs that lack basic things
> > like `emerge --info` or build logs.
>
> Without looking at the rest of this whole thread, that's lucky lucky
> wishful thinking. It doesn't match reality. Hope you're OK with that.
reality matches what i said. bug wranglers *are supposed to be*. if reality
matched what i wanted, then i wouldnt have written an e-mail of "supposed to
be" and "shouldnt be" statements.
-mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Wed, 26 May 2010 05:02:10 +0200 Jeroen Roovers wrote: > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/bug-wranglers/index.xml > > If you find that you can't do that, then we should be sorry for the > maintainers. Bug wrangling is the most unthankful job you can > voluntarily perform, so there. To follow up on that, we could add some language to the point that if it takes more than X days (say a week) then assignment to maintainers proper should go through. This could be especially important when bugs do seem relevant but should be looked at by someone (or a freakin' whole "herd") with somewhat more intimate knowledge of the package in question. Regards, jer
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tue, 25 May 2010 23:40:44 +0200 Harald van Dijk wrote: > Yes, people like myself who don't normally wrangle bugs but try to > help out occasionally. I'm not really interested in receiving all bug > wrangler e-mails. Nobody should be required to read all that crap. :) jer
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tue, 25 May 2010 22:08:55 +0200 Harald van Dijk wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 03:33:33PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > On Tuesday 25 May 2010 14:46:01 Matti Bickel wrote: > > > I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd > > > like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to > > > them. If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug > > > anyway. If that's not wanted, let me know. > > > > i dont feel like this should go to the maintainer yet. if a report > > is missing something that the maintainer needs, it isnt ready for > > them to look at. so wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to > > bug-wranglers, and close as NEEDINFO. when (if) things become > > available, it can then be re-opened and moved to the maintainer. > > No, don't close as NEEDINFO, mark as ASSIGNED. NEEDINFO bugs cannot be > reopened by other users, even if they provide the requested > information. NEEDINFO bugs are also easily forgotten about when the > reporter forgets to reopen the bug him/herself. Plus, it's in the > docs anyway. If you have to CLOSE a bug because it's blatantly lacking the proper info, language, spelling etc, then CC yourself. It's the least you can do to make sure there's some kind of follow-up. Regards, jer
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tue, 25 May 2010 20:46:01 +0200 Matti Bickel wrote: > On 05/25/2010 08:24 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user feedback > > Can you be more specific? I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd > like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them. > If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If > that's not wanted, let me know. > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/bug-wranglers/index.xml If you find that you can't do that, then we should be sorry for the maintainers. Bug wrangling is the most unthankful job you can voluntarily perform, so there. Regards an happy wrangling, jer
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:24:05 -0400
Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 May 2010 02:02:01 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> > could you please help the poor bug wranglers a bit?! The queue has
> > reached 170 unassigned bugs...
>
> people dont seem to realize that bug-wranglers isnt just for
> re-assigning to the proper maintainer. they are supposed to be doing
> basic triage, user feedback, as well as cleaning up the bug. i
> shouldnt be seeing bugs assigned to maintainers that have
> "${PN}-1.ebuild" as their subject, nor bugs that lack basic things
> like `emerge --info` or build logs. -mike
Without looking at the rest of this whole thread, that's lucky lucky
wishful thinking. It doesn't match reality. Hope you're OK with that.
Regards,
jer
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tuesday 25 May 2010 17:06:39 Matti Bickel wrote: > On 05/25/2010 10:08 PM, Harald van Dijk wrote: > > NEEDINFO bugs cannot be reopened by other users, even if they provide > > the requested information. > > I utterly fail at finding documentation on that. I've recently hit a > problem where a user couldn't reopen a RESO FIXED bug, too. Are bugzi > permissions documented somewhere? the bug reporter can open their own bugs. gentoo developers can open any bug. that's about it. (there are other rules minor, but they arent really relevant) -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 04:25:20PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: > and people on the wrangler alias see that traffic, so the state doesnt > matter. > but i guess you're trying to cater to people who only scan the assigned list > rather than watching the e-mails sent to it. Yes, people like myself who don't normally wrangle bugs but try to help out occasionally. I'm not really interested in receiving all bug wrangler e-mails.
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On 05/25/2010 10:08 PM, Harald van Dijk wrote: > NEEDINFO bugs cannot be reopened by other users, even if they provide > the requested information. I utterly fail at finding documentation on that. I've recently hit a problem where a user couldn't reopen a RESO FIXED bug, too. Are bugzi permissions documented somewhere? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tuesday 25 May 2010 16:08:55 Harald van Dijk wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 03:33:33PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > On Tuesday 25 May 2010 14:46:01 Matti Bickel wrote: > > > I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd > > > like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them. > > > If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If > > > that's not wanted, let me know. > > > > i dont feel like this should go to the maintainer yet. if a report is > > missing something that the maintainer needs, it isnt ready for them to > > look at. so wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to bug-wranglers, > > and close as NEEDINFO. when (if) things become available, it can then > > be re-opened and moved to the maintainer. > > No, don't close as NEEDINFO, mark as ASSIGNED. NEEDINFO bugs cannot be > reopened by other users, even if they provide the requested information. > NEEDINFO bugs are also easily forgotten about when the reporter forgets > to reopen the bug him/herself. and people on the wrangler alias see that traffic, so the state doesnt matter. but i guess you're trying to cater to people who only scan the assigned list rather than watching the e-mails sent to it. > Plus, it's in the docs anyway. then i guess i'll point this out to those who wrangle these things to maintainers w/out following the docs. thanks. -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On 05/25/2010 10:08 PM, Harald van Dijk wrote: > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/bug-wranglers/index.xml Cool, I clearly not up to date here, I've never thought this to be a project. Thanks for the link. Wrt mentioning metadata.xml for herd lookup in there: I've found willikins' meta -v (in a query, mind you) saves me a few keystrokes. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 03:33:33PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: > On Tuesday 25 May 2010 14:46:01 Matti Bickel wrote: > > I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd > > like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them. > > If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If > > that's not wanted, let me know. > > i dont feel like this should go to the maintainer yet. if a report is > missing > something that the maintainer needs, it isnt ready for them to look at. so > wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to bug-wranglers, and close as > NEEDINFO. when (if) things become available, it can then be re-opened and > moved to the maintainer. No, don't close as NEEDINFO, mark as ASSIGNED. NEEDINFO bugs cannot be reopened by other users, even if they provide the requested information. NEEDINFO bugs are also easily forgotten about when the reporter forgets to reopen the bug him/herself. Plus, it's in the docs anyway. "Do not assume that the reporter ought to know how to report bugs. An omitted `emerge --info' does not call for a public flogging, it simply calls for the missing `emerge --info'. Even experienced reporters make mistakes, so simply request the information, mark the bug as ASSIGNED and wait for the information you requested." http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/bug-wranglers/index.xml
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On 05/25/2010 09:33 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> i posted some specific examples already ...
Sure enough. Just wanted to know if there's more to it than build.log
and emerge --info. I'll try to extract something more than that next
time. Goes w/o saying that bug cleanup should be done prior
to assignments.
> so wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to bug-wranglers, and
> close as NEEDINFO. when (if) things become available, it can then be
> re-opened and moved to the maintainer. -mike
Good enough for me. The intention behind the immediate assignments was
the hope that maintainers could figure out the error from the already
provided info ("does not work" won't get assigned), netting quicker
reaction times.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tuesday 25 May 2010 14:46:01 Matti Bickel wrote: > On 05/25/2010 08:24 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user feedback > > Can you be more specific? i posted some specific examples already ... a little double checking of reports and suggestion of basic debugging steps (strace/whatever) would be nice, but i can let that slide since this is a bit more package specific. > I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd > like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them. > If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If > that's not wanted, let me know. i dont feel like this should go to the maintainer yet. if a report is missing something that the maintainer needs, it isnt ready for them to look at. so wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to bug-wranglers, and close as NEEDINFO. when (if) things become available, it can then be re-opened and moved to the maintainer. -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On 05/25/2010 02:24 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
On Tuesday 18 May 2010 02:02:01 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
could you please help the poor bug wranglers a bit?! The queue has reached
170 unassigned bugs...
people dont seem to realize that bug-wranglers isnt just for re-assigning to
the proper maintainer. they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user
feedback, as well as cleaning up the bug. i shouldnt be seeing bugs assigned
to maintainers that have "${PN}-1.ebuild" as their subject, nor bugs that lack
basic things like `emerge --info` or build logs.
As long as the status quo works I don't think we need to change it.
However if we are running into issues with keeping up it might make
sense to just have wranglers do assignments to maintainers and let the
maintainers deal with the rest.
The reason is that the maintainer might be able to spot dups much more
readily, or spot obvious solutions to bugs, where a wrangler might be
hunting around.
By all means wranglers should do what they can when they can, but keep
in mind that if you yell at a wrangler any time they "do it wrong" a
natural response of devs will be to not bother with bug wrangling or
just looking for their own bugs in the list.
I'm not necessarily proposing any changes here, but in general we need
to be careful about barriers to entry in projects that are undermanned.
Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On 05/25/2010 08:24 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: > they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user feedback Can you be more specific? I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them. If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If that's not wanted, let me know. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
On Tuesday 18 May 2010 02:02:01 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> could you please help the poor bug wranglers a bit?! The queue has reached
> 170 unassigned bugs...
people dont seem to realize that bug-wranglers isnt just for re-assigning to
the proper maintainer. they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user
feedback, as well as cleaning up the bug. i shouldnt be seeing bugs assigned
to maintainers that have "${PN}-1.ebuild" as their subject, nor bugs that lack
basic things like `emerge --info` or build logs.
-mike
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[gentoo-dev] bug wrangler queue is large...
Hi everyone, could you please help the poor bug wranglers a bit?! The queue has reached 170 unassigned bugs... Thanks a lot, dilfridge -- Dr. Andreas K. Huettel Institute for Experimental and Applied Physics University of Regensburg D-93040 Regensburg Germany tel. +49 151 241 67748 (mobile) e-mail m...@akhuettel.de http://www.akhuettel.de/research/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
