Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo's Social Contract Bugzilla
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lance Albertson wrote: Peter Gordon wrote: Matthew Marlowe wrote: If we could get a license donated, my vote would be to switch to Atlassian Jira, http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira. It seems to be gaining mindshare rather quickly, and the company I work for just shelled out $2,400 because they liked it so much more than RT/Bugzilla. I believe it supports multiple DB backends, including all the usual suspects. Maybe it's just me, but I think that having such a core component of the distribution be proprietary is in complete violation of Gentoo's Social Contract[1] (if not the letter of it, then its spirit of openness). It states: Gentoo will never never depend upon a piece of software or metadata unless it conforms to the GNU General Public License, the GNU Lesser General Public License, the Creative Commons - Attribution/Share Alike or some other license approved by the Open Source Initiative (OSI). Isn't this one of the driving reasons why our forums run phpBB instead of something like vBulletin, for example? :) [1] http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/contract.xml I'm not entirely sure if this is directed towards the supporting web applications or of Gentoo itself. To me its directed towards the meta distribution and not any of the underlying support mechanisms of Gentoo. If we were to use some non-gpl webapp, the underlying Gentoo system you run does not depend on a non-gpl piece of software. A bug tracking system is not an underlying component of Gentoo. Its just a tool that helps with development of Gentoo. But anyways, some people view it in the strict sense and they're entitled to it. That's just how I view it when I read it. Its a bit vague on what Gentoo really is. Is it talking only about the meta distribution? Or that plus the underlying supporting systems that help run Gentoo? I think it is perfectly valid we use this kind of tools for development; as far as i know, our SC refers to those components (in form of software and metadata) to be free software upon which a user depend to build a Gentoo system, and this isn't one of those components. Though i admit it might bring some kind of 'controversy' . /me remenbers bitkeeper - -- Luis F. Araujo araujo at gentoo.org Gentoo Linux -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE1ESYdZ42PGEF17URApflAKCAkBVcgD5hgS0ASFyNXz3wS1Mx5ACg6Tov IjDaN+ENPP1t9nckRAsf2ZA= =6fxU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo's Social Contract Bugzilla
Luis Francisco Araujo wrote: I think it is perfectly valid we use this kind of tools for development; as far as i know, our SC refers to those components (in form of software and metadata) to be free software upon which a user depend to build a Gentoo system, and this isn't one of those components. Though i admit it might bring some kind of 'controversy' . I've got no problem with people wanting to actively use proprietary software instead of F/OSS alternatives because of much better features, security record, etc. (Here's where that phpBB vs vBulletin example comes to mind again.) Heck, it's their choice, right? My quarrel is with the fact that this would be the designated tool for full development usage and whatnot. However, I don't believe that Bugzilla is such a separate entity from the distribution as a whole. I, for one, would simply stop reporting bugs there if it was switched to a proprietary bug-tracking tool. Now, one could say that this isn't much of a problem (since it's all entirely voluntary, right?); but think of this on a grander scale of other F/OSS advocates: you would have much less community involvement. One of the core foundations, as I see it, of a community-driven Linux distribution such as Gentoo is exactly that: the community. Bugzilla provides a reasonably-somewhat-sane infrastructure to keep track of the various bugs, issues, and feature requests being put forth by its users and is one of the primary methods of communication between the user and developer camps. Regards. -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) Gentoo Forums Global Moderator GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 My Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo's Social Contract Bugzilla
On Sat, Aug 05, 2006 at 01:32:50AM -0700, Peter Gordon wrote: However, I don't believe that Bugzilla is such a separate entity from the distribution as a whole. I, for one, would simply stop reporting bugs there if it was switched to a proprietary bug-tracking tool. Now, one could say that this isn't much of a problem (since it's all entirely voluntary, right?); but think of this on a grander scale of other F/OSS advocates: you would have much less community involvement. Wasn't there Ubuntu's meta-bugtracker that runs on some proprietary stuff which didn't get too much love because of it? While i share the view that the social contract doesn't stop us from using proprietary software, it sure is a great to prove to people that we are able to run web servers, rsync mirrors, support forums, bug tracker, blogs and lots of other stuff with free software and do not require the help of some closed software. That's just a great way to show this stuff actually works even outside some long haired hippie students apartment. ;-) cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org pgpZ4aqxh3obB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo's Social Contract Bugzilla
In the past, it's been more or less agreed that it's not depending upon it if it uses an open data format... There was talk of moving the forums to proprietary software at one point, for example. I see. Thanks for the clarification, Ciaran. (Though as an aside, I'd like to mention that it'd still be a bad idea to do so. :P) I think my reply from a non-dev email address got eaten, so I'll reply again: 1) Jira can produce automated backups/exports of the database in XML format, which means we can always write a tool to convert the data to a format acceptable to any other bug mngmt software anytime we want. 2) It imports from bugzilla 3) Free license and apparently even some free support and infrastructure management for open-source projects. Apparently, they donated one of the bug db's that the apache software foundation is using, for instance. See: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing.jsp#nonprofit http://opensource.atlassian.com/ 4) There is some nice functionality to integrate with cvs, subversion, etc if we ever find a use for that. However, I was just throwing out the jira stuff as an idea and my 2 cents given the concerns about bugzilla. The current db running on myisam table format is rather scary, given gentoo's size. MattM -- Matthew Marlowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Yahoo IM: deploylinuxconsulting Tel: 805-857-9144 Oak Park, CA All of a sudden, Larry the cow was in control. And, he liked it -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo's Social Contract Bugzilla
Matthew Marlowe wrote: 3) Free license and apparently even some free support and infrastructure management for open-source projects. Apparently, they donated one of the bug db's that the apache software foundation is using, for instance. Free as in - BitKeeper? :P Nah, no need to repeat past mistakes, seriously. -- jakub signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo's Social Contract Bugzilla
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 02:29:05 +0200 Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Matthew Marlowe wrote: | 3) Free license and apparently even some free support and | infrastructure management for open-source projects. Apparently, | they donated one of the bug db's that the apache software | foundation is using, for instance. | | Free as in - BitKeeper? :P Nah, no need to repeat past mistakes, | seriously. No, Bitkeeper didn't have an easy way of getting all of the data out. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
