[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-25, Alan McKinnon  wrote:

>> And I find it very useful to be able to leave 2 of the screens as-is
>> while I switch the third one to do something else.
>> 
>>> The results of your searches and experiments seem to suggest that it
>>> is n unusual configuration
>> 
>> It is, though I don't know why -- I find it far more useful than have
>> one giant desktop.
>> 
>>> and I'm wondering what particular itch this scratches.
>> 
>> It allows me to work efficiently on complex tasks while concurrently
>> responding to emails and handling interruptions.
>
> I do something with a sort-of similar result. One big desktop across
> all screens with at least 6 virtual desktop. Stuff I need always
> there (like mail and IM clients) go off to one side on the small
> monitor, pinned to all virtual desktops. None of the other real work
> stuff goes on the small monitor.
>
> This won't suit Grant though, as he said his nVidia card can't big
> desktop across 3 physical 1600 monitors

That part of the problem _might_ go away.  The card is scheduled for
replacement soon.  It's no longer supported by the latest nvidia
driver, and it has required me to mask xorg-server 1.18, which, in
turn has forced me to mask the latest stable versions of a couple
other things. That's not a big deal yet, but it's only going to get
worse.  So I've got a new nvidia card picked out.  The old one is only
8 years old, and it still works perfectly, but I guess that's
progress. Though all of the nvidia cards supported by latest drivers
have fans. :/

I've been testing the openbox/tint2 setup on my single-screen laptop
using an Xnest display with three screens.  So far, so good.


Whenever I report a bug related to multi-screen support, the excuse is
always "none of the developers have access to multi-screen systems, so
nobody can work on this".  Really?  People who are developing X11
desktop infrastructure don't know enough to type "Xnest -scrns 3
-geometry 640x480 :1"?  I think what they actually mean is "none of
the developers use multi-screen setups in their daily work, so nobody
cares about this enough to fix it." I'd have a lot more repspect for
that -- at least it's honest.


-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 25/09/2016 16:02, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2016-09-25, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 00:13:48 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic.  All references I can
>>> find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking
>>> about multiple X11 screens.  They're talking about a single X11 screen
>>> spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr.
>>
>> I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate X11
>> screens?
> 
> I do software development that often involves fairly complex test
> setups where I sometimes need 1 screen for source code, 1 screen for
> documentation, 1 screen for various simulators or test programs, 1
> screen for a web browser connected to the DUT, and another screen for
> general web-browsing and email handling.
> 
> And I find it very useful to be able to leave 2 of the screens as-is
> while I switch the third one to do something else.
> 
>> The results of your searches and experiments seem to suggest that it
>> is n unusual configuration
> 
> It is, though I don't know why -- I find it far more useful than have
> one giant desktop.
> 
>> and I'm wondering what particular itch this scratches.
> 
> It allows me to work efficiently on complex tasks while concurrently
> responding to emails and handling interruptions.

I do something with a sort-of similar result. One big desktop across all
screens with at least 6 virtual desktop. Stuff I need always there (like
mail and IM clients) go off to one side on the small monitor, pinned to
all virtual desktops. None of the other real work stuff goes on the
small monitor.

This won't suit Grant though, as he said his nVidia card can't big
desktop across 3 physical 1600 monitors


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-25, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2016-09-23, Grant Edwards  wrote:
>
> [need to pick new desktop environment -- which could just be a window
> manager with a couple extra bits]
[...]
> Windowmaker seems a bit too oriented towards "icons on the desktop"
> which isn't how I want to work.
[]
> LXDE looked good.  [...] However, when I built lxde-meta and tried it
> on a 3-screen machine, it fell over pretty badly.
[...]
> I liked openbox though, so if LXDE refuses to handle multiple screens
> I may stick with openbox and try to find some other panel program
> that does work with multiple screens.

Openbox+tint2 looks promising.  Tint2 is a lightweight panel app that
doesn't have the "only one instance allowed" restriction like lxpanel
has. You run a separate instance of tint2 per panel, and it doesn't
care how many instances you run or how many different screens or
XServers they're running on.  For optimal attractiveness, you may have
to hand-tweak the tint2 colors and fonts to match the openbox theme,
but that's a small price to pay for something that actually works.

I still have to figure out one last tweak to openbox's behavior.  When
you do ctrl-alt-right/left it switches virtual desktops on the screen
that has input focus, and I want it to switch on the screen where the
mouse pointer is.  I know it's trivial, and all you have to do is
click before hitting ctrl-alt-right/left. 

But I'm old; change is hard :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Dutch Ingraham]

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 03:09:23PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:02:18 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> > > I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate
> > > X11 screens?  
> > 
> > I do software development that often involves fairly complex test
> > setups where I sometimes need 1 screen for source code, 1 screen for
> > documentation, 1 screen for various simulators or test programs, 1
> > screen for a web browser connected to the DUT, and another screen for
> > general web-browsing and email handling.
> > 
> > And I find it very useful to be able to leave 2 of the screens as-is
> > while I switch the third one to do something else.
> 
> I hadn't really thought of it like that, but being able to switch virtual
> desktops separately on each monitor sounds like a really useful feature.

I got used to that type of workflow with dwm, and I'm now spoiled; like the OP,
I find it terribly inconvenient to change all monitors when I only want to
change one.

[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-25, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:02:18 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> > I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate
>> > X11 screens?  
>> 
>> I do software development that often involves fairly complex test
>> setups where I sometimes need 1 screen for source code, 1 screen for
>> documentation, 1 screen for various simulators or test programs, 1
>> screen for a web browser connected to the DUT, and another screen for
>> general web-browsing and email handling.
>> 
>> And I find it very useful to be able to leave 2 of the screens as-is
>> while I switch the third one to do something else.
>
> I hadn't really thought of it like that, but being able to switch virtual
> desktops separately on each monitor sounds like a really useful feature.

It is.  Once you get used to being able to do that, it's hard to give
it up.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] New Install

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Christopher Robinson
 wrote:
> There you go again twisting my words.I never said it compiles to a graphic 
> desktop. I said it gets
> to one, after compiling. Try to read more carefully, will you?
> Please keep to your promise not to respond to my posts.

I would suggest posting a bit more detail.  For example, if you're
following the handbook please indicate the last section you completed
before you got stuck, and provide specific details on what is going
wrong (error message, etc).  I think that will make it much easier for
those trying to follow along.  There are a couple of steps that
involve compiling something so it isn't obvious from your description
where you're getting stuck.  The more specific the description of the
problem, the more likely you are to get a specific answer.  A few of
us have probably personally experienced just about everything that can
go wrong with a Gentoo install, so it is just a matter of identifying
where you're getting stuck...

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox 45.2.0 segfaulting

[Kai Krakow]

Am Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:55:02 + (UTC)
schrieb Grant Edwards :

> www-client/firefox got updated this morning to 45.2.0, and now it
> segfaults whenever you enter a character in the search field or the
> URL field.
> 
> Anybody else see this sort of behavior?

Did you enable custom-cflags or custom-optimization in the use flags?
Firefox doesn't work well with it. Also, using system libs instead of
the bundled libs may add to stability problems.

-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:24:24 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well.
> I have a desktop with 2 displays connected.
> 
> I also have a few virtual desktops.
> 
> I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays.
> This woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while
> keeping the other display unchanged.

Not much use to Grant, who wants something slighter more lightweight than
KDE, but could this be achieved with KDE's Activities? I've not used
Activities much but I'll have a dabble when I'm back at my desktop.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

People who eat natural foods die from natural causes.


pgpOKhblJU3se.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-25, Mick  wrote:
> On Sunday 25 Sep 2016 10:24:24 J. Roeleveld wrote:
>
>> I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well.
>> I have a desktop with 2 displays connected.
>> 
>> I also have a few virtual desktops.
>> 
>> I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays. This
>> woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while keeping the
>> other display unchanged.
>
> This may not suit the OPs requirements, but you can achieve what you want 
> with 
> enlightenment (i'm currently running 0.20.6), which has separate and 
> independent virtual desktops on each display.

Last night I tried to switch to a single-screen/three-monitor setup
using xrandr, and it wouldn't work -- my nvidia card apparently can't
drive two 1600x1200 monitors that way, it can only do it as separate
screens.  Or maybe I need a newer nvidia driver (the nvidia card is
pretty old and isn't supported by the latest drivers).

If I could run single-screen, and still have separate desktops on each
monitor, that would be fine.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:02:18 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> > I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate
> > X11 screens?  
> 
> I do software development that often involves fairly complex test
> setups where I sometimes need 1 screen for source code, 1 screen for
> documentation, 1 screen for various simulators or test programs, 1
> screen for a web browser connected to the DUT, and another screen for
> general web-browsing and email handling.
> 
> And I find it very useful to be able to leave 2 of the screens as-is
> while I switch the third one to do something else.

I hadn't really thought of it like that, but being able to switch virtual
desktops separately on each monitor sounds like a really useful feature.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

User-friendly: (adj.) trivialized, slow, incapable, and boring.


pgpjeCkLYO9jJ.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-09-25, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 00:13:48 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic.  All references I can
>> find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking
>> about multiple X11 screens.  They're talking about a single X11 screen
>> spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr.
>
> I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate X11
> screens?

I do software development that often involves fairly complex test
setups where I sometimes need 1 screen for source code, 1 screen for
documentation, 1 screen for various simulators or test programs, 1
screen for a web browser connected to the DUT, and another screen for
general web-browsing and email handling.

And I find it very useful to be able to leave 2 of the screens as-is
while I switch the third one to do something else.

> The results of your searches and experiments seem to suggest that it
> is n unusual configuration

It is, though I don't know why -- I find it far more useful than have
one giant desktop.

> and I'm wondering what particular itch this scratches.

It allows me to work efficiently on complex tasks while concurrently
responding to emails and handling interruptions.

--
Grant

[gentoo-user] Fluid -- the fltk gui designer...how to get it?

[Meino . Cramer]

Hi,

I neither found appropiate USE flags nor a seperate package
for this...

How can I get FLUID -- the fltk gui designer?

Thank you very much in advance for any help!
Best regards,
mcc

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[J. Roeleveld]

On Sunday, September 25, 2016 02:27:06 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 25/09/2016 14:17, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:16:29 PM Mick wrote:
> >> On Sunday 25 Sep 2016 10:24:24 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >>> I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well.
> >>> I have a desktop with 2 displays connected.
> >>> 
> >>> I also have a few virtual desktops.
> >>> 
> >>> I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays.
> >>> This
> >>> woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while keeping
> >>> the
> >>> other display unchanged.
> >> 
> >> This may not suit the OPs requirements, but you can achieve what you want
> >> with enlightenment (i'm currently running 0.20.6), which has separate and
> >> independent virtual desktops on each display.
> > 
> > Looks interesting.
> > 
> > Which version in portage is the correct one?
> > I see a slot "0", which has version 1.0.17.
> > I see a slot "0.17", which has versions like 0.20.5 and 0.20.6.
> > 
> > And according to the website, 0.21.2 has been released.
> 
> "enlightenment" is really two completely different projects that share
> only a project name and a bunch of devs in common.
> 
> There was Enlightenment 16, currently maintained by Kim Woelders, this
> is SLOT 0 in Gentoo and the most recent release 1.0.17.
> 
> Rasterman and his trusty bunch of nefarious cohorts scrapped E16 about
> 13 years ago and started over and called their new project E17. It ha
> very little in common with E16 other than lots of bling :-)
> 
> E17 has steadily moved forward after taking 10 years for any release of
> any kind and is now up to 0.21.2 - there is no E18 or E19 or whatever
> they are all subsequent releases of E17. Gentoo has this in SLOT 0.17
> 
> It's all terrible confusing :-)

Nice a fork without a renaming. Really useful.

Which would be considered the most up-to-date/modern/reliable version?

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Mick]

On Sunday 25 Sep 2016 14:17:35 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:16:29 PM Mick wrote:
> > On Sunday 25 Sep 2016 10:24:24 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > > I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well.
> > > I have a desktop with 2 displays connected.
> > > 
> > > I also have a few virtual desktops.
> > > 
> > > I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays.
> > > This
> > > woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while keeping
> > > the
> > > other display unchanged.
> > 
> > This may not suit the OPs requirements, but you can achieve what you want
> > with enlightenment (i'm currently running 0.20.6), which has separate and
> > independent virtual desktops on each display.
> 
> Looks interesting.
> 
> Which version in portage is the correct one?
> I see a slot "0", which has version 1.0.17.
> I see a slot "0.17", which has versions like 0.20.5 and 0.20.6.
> 
> And according to the website, 0.21.2 has been released.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Joost

The website shows the latest and greatest.  There are a couple of overlays 
more or less in sync with the latest versions, but have the occasional bugs or 
instability.  I stick with portage these days.  You want the e17 packages, 
rather than the old e16.  Therefore go for (0.17/0.20.6).
-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 25/09/2016 14:17, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:16:29 PM Mick wrote:
>> On Sunday 25 Sep 2016 10:24:24 J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well.
>>> I have a desktop with 2 displays connected.
>>>
>>> I also have a few virtual desktops.
>>>
>>> I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays. This
>>> woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while keeping
>>> the
>>> other display unchanged.
>>
>> This may not suit the OPs requirements, but you can achieve what you want
>> with enlightenment (i'm currently running 0.20.6), which has separate and
>> independent virtual desktops on each display.
> 
> Looks interesting.
> 
> Which version in portage is the correct one?
> I see a slot "0", which has version 1.0.17.
> I see a slot "0.17", which has versions like 0.20.5 and 0.20.6.
> 
> And according to the website, 0.21.2 has been released.

"enlightenment" is really two completely different projects that share
only a project name and a bunch of devs in common.

There was Enlightenment 16, currently maintained by Kim Woelders, this
is SLOT 0 in Gentoo and the most recent release 1.0.17.

Rasterman and his trusty bunch of nefarious cohorts scrapped E16 about
13 years ago and started over and called their new project E17. It ha
very little in common with E16 other than lots of bling :-)

E17 has steadily moved forward after taking 10 years for any release of
any kind and is now up to 0.21.2 - there is no E18 or E19 or whatever
they are all subsequent releases of E17. Gentoo has this in SLOT 0.17

It's all terrible confusing :-)


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[J. Roeleveld]

On Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:16:29 PM Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 25 Sep 2016 10:24:24 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well.
> > I have a desktop with 2 displays connected.
> > 
> > I also have a few virtual desktops.
> > 
> > I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays. This
> > woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while keeping
> > the
> > other display unchanged.
> 
> This may not suit the OPs requirements, but you can achieve what you want
> with enlightenment (i'm currently running 0.20.6), which has separate and
> independent virtual desktops on each display.

Looks interesting.

Which version in portage is the correct one?
I see a slot "0", which has version 1.0.17.
I see a slot "0.17", which has versions like 0.20.5 and 0.20.6.

And according to the website, 0.21.2 has been released.

Thanks,

Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Mick]

On Sunday 25 Sep 2016 10:24:24 J. Roeleveld wrote:

> I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well.
> I have a desktop with 2 displays connected.
> 
> I also have a few virtual desktops.
> 
> I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays. This
> woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while keeping the
> other display unchanged.

This may not suit the OPs requirements, but you can achieve what you want with 
enlightenment (i'm currently running 0.20.6), which has separate and 
independent virtual desktops on each display.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[J. Roeleveld]

On September 25, 2016 10:49:15 AM GMT+02:00, Neil Bothwick  
wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 00:13:48 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic.  All references I can
>> find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking
>> about multiple X11 screens.  They're talking about a single X11
>screen
>> spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr.
>
>I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate
>X11
>screens? The results of your searches and experiments seem to suggest
>that it is n unusual configuration and I'm wondering what particular
>itch
>this scratches.

I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well.
I have a desktop with 2 displays connected.

I also have a few virtual desktops.

I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays. This 
woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while keeping the 
other display unchanged.

I currently simulate this by setting apps to occupy all desktops on occasion, 
but it is not as convenient.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 00:13:48 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic.  All references I can
> find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking
> about multiple X11 screens.  They're talking about a single X11 screen
> spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr.

I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate X11
screens? The results of your searches and experiments seem to suggest
that it is n unusual configuration and I'm wondering what particular itch
this scratches.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Why do they sterilize the needles for lethal injections?


pgp_ajBIgDjZU.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Problems with Xinerama after upgrade to Plasma (KDE5)

[Paul B. Henson]

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:54:16AM +0200, Dan Johansson wrote:

> Yes, you are correct, I'm running stable (5.6.5).
> Then I'll have to wait for next release to "go stable" or try upgrading 
> to 5.7.4.

As a workaround, uninstall kscreen, create a shell script (named say
xrandr.sh), and put the appropriate xrandr config in it, mine for
example is:

#! /bin/sh
xrandr --noprimary --output DVI-I-2 --left-of DVI-I-1

Go to the KDE system settings, under startup and shutdown, and add this
script in the autostart section as "Pre-KDE startup".

This will result in your monitors being placed correctly under 5.6.x
until you can upgrade to a version with the kscreen bugfix (at that
time, remove this script and reinstall the kscreen ebuild).