Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
On 6/7/21 1:10 AM, n952162 wrote: > I'm looking for a gentoo alternative and am surprised to see that google > chrome os is based on gentoo. > > Does anybody have any experience with this? > > Do they support multi-media and basic modern desktop capabilities? I > see that there's some concentration on a special browser, but I'd be > running Firefox and FVWM anyway. > > Do they use /portage/ and source packages? > > Do they push down every single upstream modification, like gentoo does, > or maybe have a bit of hysteresis? > > I updated on May first and built firefox 78.10.*0*. 2+ days of > building. I updated on June first and built firefox 78.10.*1*. and > spent 2+ days building. I updated today because of the same old slot > collision problems I've run into over a year > > dev-python/setuptools:0 > dev-python/setuptools_scm:0 > dev-python/toml:0 > dev-python/certifi:0 > dev-python/jinja:0 > dev-python/markupsafe:0 > > and now, on the 7th, I'm building firefox 78.11. I just don't have the > time for this. It impacts my machines too much. > > Yes, I know, there are binary versions, but if I wanted to use binary, I > wouldn't use gentoo. And anyway, there's always rust and gcc and ... > > > Firefox 78.10[1], 78.10.1[2], and 78.11[3] are all upstream releases that fix security errata. Promptly pushing through security fixes from upstream is the responsible thing for package maintainers to do. How web browsers came to be so complex and whether it is worth it is another topic entirely, but suffice to say I think your problems are more caused by upstream than Gentoo. As long as you are using a source distribution, you will pay the price of long compiles for such complicated software, and it will happen frequently because of how many security flaws crop up (again due to the sheer scope and complexity of the thing), and if you do this on old hardware it will be slow (although 2 days to compile Firefox seems excessive, what hardware are you building this on?). Regarding rust, personally I just gave up and installed rust-bin. Again it's not Gentoo's fault that upstream's product is so bloated. cal [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2021-15/ [2] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2021-18/ [3] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2021-24/
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive AHCI versus RAID setting in BIOS?
On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 4:04 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 18:04:51 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > Since wiping Windows voids the warranty, I'll run the new machine for > > several days under Windows, just in case there are any early problems. > > After that, it goes Gentoo. > > I always boot system rescue and dd the entries drive to somewhere safe. > That way I restore the original setup in the case of a warranty claim - > unless the failure is that bad that I can't boot or access the disk. > > > -- > Neil Bothwick > > Windows Error #05: Nonexisent error. This cannot really be happening Just a side thought but if the machine uses a M.2 type PCIe drive shipped originally with Windows on it then, because the swap is physically easy and quick, I might consider just buying a second M.2 for a LInux install thus keeping the original with Windows. - Mark
[gentoo-user] any news on chromium + Glibc?
Chromium is still broken here, all tabs blank after MORE THAN A MONTH... It seems they're trying to fix it because the rate of version bumps of Chromium has decreased from several times a minute to maybe one every two weeks indicating that upstream is having significant issues. I've been updating weekly on Thursdays to check for a working version. =\ Does anyone else know anything about what's going on? -- Don't make this your epitath: "I tuk da vakceen cuz I thout I wuz smert; I ded cuz I wuz dum." #EggCrisis White is the new Kulak. Powers are not rights.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
On 07/06/21 14:11, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 11:25:55 +0200, n952162 wrote: > >>> You could also look at using distcc if you have more than one machine >>> to spread the load. >>> >>> >> >> Ah, that's also interesting ... that's like an alternative to a local >> binary server (which I'm currently doing) - the compilations are >> distributed on all nodes in the network - and then, presumably are also >> available to all nodes? ... > > The compilation is distributed but the result is only available to the > host running emerge. However, if you set FEATURES=buildpkg and set > $PKGDIR to a shared directory, you could use the same binaries on other > systems, provided they are set up the same. > > That's roughly what I did - with two systems, they were set up to build compatible packages, and store all the gentoo stuff on shared drives. So depending on which one I rebuilt when, they often upgraded from binary packages built by the other machine. Cheers, Wol
[gentoo-user] Re: any news on chromium + Glibc?
On 2021-06-07, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 7:11 AM Grant Edwards > wrote: >> On 2021-06-07, Alan Grimes wrote: >> >> > Chromium is still broken here, all tabs blank after MORE THAN A MONTH... >> >> I wasn't aware there was a problem: there hasen't been any brokenness >> for me[1] (current running 91.0.4472.77 ). What's the problem? >> >> [1] Except for a minor problem when dragging a tab out of the >> window to form a new window. That's been broken for ages and is >> apparently a permenent "feature" now (both Chromium and Chrom). > > No problem dragging a tab out of Chrome here on Kubuntu. > > If it's broken that would appear to be a Gentoo issue, not a generic > Chrome or Linux proper issue. I suspect the problem only happens under certain window managers. It was definitely introduced at a specific Chrome/Chromium version (though I forget exactly what version). It started maybe 6-12 months ago, and you could avoid the problem by reverting to an older Chrome version. When you drag a tab out of a window to form a new window, and then release the mouse button, the new window won't stay put. It will continue to follow the cursor around the desktop (even as other windows get focus) until you press any key on the keyboard. Once you press a key, the window stops and stays put (they way it used to when you released the mouse button after the tab drag operation). I use openbox, but I've seen the same problem reported by Chrome users under other non-Gnome/KDE desktops. -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: any news on chromium + Glibc?
On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 7:11 AM Grant Edwards wrote: > > On 2021-06-07, Alan Grimes wrote: > > > Chromium is still broken here, all tabs blank after MORE THAN A MONTH... > > I wasn't aware there was a problem: there hasen't been any brokenness > for me[1] (current running 91.0.4472.77 ). What's the problem? > > [1] Except for a minor problem when dragging a tab out of the window > to form a new window. That's been broken for ages and is > apparently a permenent "feature" now (both Chromium and Chrom). > > -- > Grant No problem dragging a tab out of Chrome here on Kubuntu. If it's broken that would appear to be a Gentoo issue, not a generic Chrome or Linux proper issue. Mark
[gentoo-user] PyCXX vs Python 3.9
According to the pycxx README and to the pysvn devloper PyCXX 7.12 is not compatible with Python 3.9 because the tp_print field has been removed from one of the structures. My attempts to use PyCXX with Python 3.9 seem to confirm this. Is it a bug that the PyCXX ebuild allows it to be installed for the Python 3.9 target?
[gentoo-user] Re: any news on chromium + Glibc?
On 2021-06-07, Alan Grimes wrote: > Chromium is still broken here, all tabs blank after MORE THAN A MONTH... I wasn't aware there was a problem: there hasen't been any brokenness for me[1] (current running 91.0.4472.77 ). What's the problem? [1] Except for a minor problem when dragging a tab out of the window to form a new window. That's been broken for ages and is apparently a permenent "feature" now (both Chromium and Chrom). -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 11:25:55 +0200, n952162 wrote: > > You could also look at using distcc if you have more than one machine > > to spread the load. > > > > > > Ah, that's also interesting ... that's like an alternative to a local > binary server (which I'm currently doing) - the compilations are > distributed on all nodes in the network - and then, presumably are also > available to all nodes? ... The compilation is distributed but the result is only available to the host running emerge. However, if you set FEATURES=buildpkg and set $PKGDIR to a shared directory, you could use the same binaries on other systems, provided they are set up the same. -- Neil Bothwick I've got a mind like a... a... what's that thing called? pgpSCLfuB7iMd.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
On 6/7/21 2:03 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 4:10 AM n952162 wrote: I'm looking for a gentoo alternative and am surprised to see that google chrome os is based on gentoo. Uh, you might want to read up more on what ChromeOS is. While you can in theory run it on anything, it is designed basically to power Chromebooks. It is closer to something like Android than something like Ubuntu/etc. Do they support multi-media and basic modern desktop capabilities? Yes. Emphasis on "basic." I see that there's some concentration on a special browser, but I'd be running Firefox and FVWM anyway. If you want to run anything other than Chrome, good luck. Maybe you could get Firefox to run. Running fvwm is going to be much harder to pull off. Really at that point I'm not sure why you'd even start with ChromeOS since running Chrome with their special DE is the entire point of the distro. Do they use portage and source packages? Yes and yes. However, the build system doesn't install portage, so you can't do updates using portage. The OS is designed to be packaged as a read-only system image and updates are performed by updating the system image. It is a completely non-traditional distro. Do they push down every single upstream modification, like gentoo does, or maybe have a bit of hysteresis? I imagine the upstream repo has a big emphasis on security updates, but probably doesn't stay current on every little library. Just look at Chrome and the state of its own bundled libs if you use the upstream repo (which Gentoo goes to a lot of work to strip out). Really, if you want to run ChromeOS just go buy a Chromebook for $150. Trying to roll your own is great if you want to experiment, but it definitely isn't doing things "the easy way." Okay, good info, thank you.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 4:10 AM n952162 wrote: > > I'm looking for a gentoo alternative and am surprised to see that google > chrome os is based on gentoo. Uh, you might want to read up more on what ChromeOS is. While you can in theory run it on anything, it is designed basically to power Chromebooks. It is closer to something like Android than something like Ubuntu/etc. > Do they support multi-media and basic modern desktop capabilities? Yes. Emphasis on "basic." > I see that there's some concentration on a special browser, but I'd be > running Firefox and FVWM anyway. If you want to run anything other than Chrome, good luck. Maybe you could get Firefox to run. Running fvwm is going to be much harder to pull off. Really at that point I'm not sure why you'd even start with ChromeOS since running Chrome with their special DE is the entire point of the distro. > Do they use portage and source packages? Yes and yes. However, the build system doesn't install portage, so you can't do updates using portage. The OS is designed to be packaged as a read-only system image and updates are performed by updating the system image. It is a completely non-traditional distro. > Do they push down every single upstream modification, like gentoo does, or > maybe have a bit of hysteresis? I imagine the upstream repo has a big emphasis on security updates, but probably doesn't stay current on every little library. Just look at Chrome and the state of its own bundled libs if you use the upstream repo (which Gentoo goes to a lot of work to strip out). Really, if you want to run ChromeOS just go buy a Chromebook for $150. Trying to roll your own is great if you want to experiment, but it definitely isn't doing things "the easy way." -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
Maybe use firefox-bin instead of firefox?
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
On 6/7/21 11:16 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 11:10:13 +0200, n952162 wrote: Yes, I know, there are binary versions, but if I wanted to use binary, I wouldn't use gentoo. And anyway, there's always rust and gcc and ... Okay, I guess I got it, at least for the worst offenders, firefox and thunderbird: not have them in my world file and every quarter update them manually. Would that work? Not really, because you wouldn't get security updates. Also, because they aren't in your world set, depclean would try to remove them and their dependencies. A somewhat less clunky, but still far from perfect, option would be to use package.mask to block updates beyond the current version. Hmmm. That's interesting ... Using stable rather than testing, I don't know which you are currently using, would reduce the number of updates significantly. This laptop runs testing, but I have Chromium set to use stable to avoid the situation of a rebuild completing just in time to start the next one :( :-))) That's exactly what I have (almost) with stable. You could also look at using distcc if you have more than one machine to spread the load. Ah, that's also interesting ... that's like an alternative to a local binary server (which I'm currently doing) - the compilations are distributed on all nodes in the network - and then, presumably are also available to all nodes? ...
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 11:10:13 +0200, n952162 wrote: > > Yes, I know, there are binary versions, but if I wanted to use binary, > > I wouldn't use gentoo. And anyway, there's always rust and gcc and > > ... > > > > > > Okay, I guess I got it, at least for the worst offenders, firefox and > thunderbird: not have them in my world file and every quarter update > them manually. Would that work? Not really, because you wouldn't get security updates. Also, because they aren't in your world set, depclean would try to remove them and their dependencies. A somewhat less clunky, but still far from perfect, option would be to use package.mask to block updates beyond the current version. Using stable rather than testing, I don't know which you are currently using, would reduce the number of updates significantly. This laptop runs testing, but I have Chromium set to use stable to avoid the situation of a rebuild completing just in time to start the next one :( You could also look at using distcc if you have more than one machine to spread the load. -- Neil Bothwick There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. pgpvppa5Ly9ab.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
On 6/7/21 10:10 AM, n952162 wrote: I'm looking for a gentoo alternative and am surprised to see that google chrome os is based on gentoo. Does anybody have any experience with this? Do they support multi-media and basic modern desktop capabilities? I see that there's some concentration on a special browser, but I'd be running Firefox and FVWM anyway. Do they use /portage/ and source packages? Do they push down every single upstream modification, like gentoo does, or maybe have a bit of hysteresis? I updated on May first and built firefox 78.10.*0*. 2+ days of building. I updated on June first and built firefox 78.10.*1*. and spent 2+ days building. I updated today because of the same old slot collision problems I've run into over a year dev-python/setuptools:0 dev-python/setuptools_scm:0 dev-python/toml:0 dev-python/certifi:0 dev-python/jinja:0 dev-python/markupsafe:0 and now, on the 7th, I'm building firefox 78.11. I just don't have the time for this. It impacts my machines too much. Yes, I know, there are binary versions, but if I wanted to use binary, I wouldn't use gentoo. And anyway, there's always rust and gcc and ... Okay, I guess I got it, at least for the worst offenders, firefox and thunderbird: not have them in my world file and every quarter update them manually. Would that work?
[gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
I'm looking for a gentoo alternative and am surprised to see that google chrome os is based on gentoo. Does anybody have any experience with this? Do they support multi-media and basic modern desktop capabilities? I see that there's some concentration on a special browser, but I'd be running Firefox and FVWM anyway. Do they use /portage/ and source packages? Do they push down every single upstream modification, like gentoo does, or maybe have a bit of hysteresis? I updated on May first and built firefox 78.10.*0*. 2+ days of building. I updated on June first and built firefox 78.10.*1*. and spent 2+ days building. I updated today because of the same old slot collision problems I've run into over a year dev-python/setuptools:0 dev-python/setuptools_scm:0 dev-python/toml:0 dev-python/certifi:0 dev-python/jinja:0 dev-python/markupsafe:0 and now, on the 7th, I'm building firefox 78.11. I just don't have the time for this. It impacts my machines too much. Yes, I know, there are binary versions, but if I wanted to use binary, I wouldn't use gentoo. And anyway, there's always rust and gcc and ...
