Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 1:06 AM, wrote: > The rdp might work. It would be best if I could by-pass the switch, > since both VM's are running on the same Linux server. > > -- > Thelma > If you are using Windows I would strongly recommend using RDP. It is integrated with the OS at the kernel level, and will give you the best performance of all of the options available. Further if you are using Hyper-V you can share resources in ways QEMU/KVM and Xen currently can not. As a quick aside, this may get rid of your problem: https://github.com/stascorp/rdpwrap. It will allow multiple concurrent logins for Windows installations not licensed as a terminal server, and may allow you to only run one Windows guest. Based on how your original message and comments fit together it seems like you might not need what you originally asked about. I would suggest that using network booting for guests is best if you have multiple computers that will be running multiple guests each and you want to centralize storage somewhere. Otherwise, use QEMU's options to copy-on-write with frozen boot media: https://www.unixmen.com/qemu-kvm-using-copy-write-mode/. There are other options which allow you to tweak behavior in the command for running qemu-system or to use raw block devices. Lastly doing any of this with Windows guests may be against Microsoft's licensing terms. I don't know and I've looked into the issue, as have other people; in all honestly Microsoft's lawyers might not even know. What I do know is that if you want to support Windows network booting and authentication (network booting and startup has licensing as a core component, surprise!) you will need to do it their way which involves, possibly, using their automatic installation tools and running infrastructure servers like Domain Controllers. If all you want to do is install Windows, however, you might look at this https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2008.07.desktopfiles.aspx. At the very least it might give you more information to go on.
Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
On 03/18/2017 05:33 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Ural wrote: >> Rich Freeman: >>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:12 PM, wrote: So, instead of getting into trouble of making disk-less node I figure it out my Atom (small box) can access Main server via X2GO. I tested it on my local network and speed wise it works OK. Buy my computer is much faster than the Atom. So after upgrade I'll see how it will run. All boxes have gigabit network cards. >>> >>> While this would certainly work, you should also consider using a >>> windows technology like rdp/citrix to connect directly from the client >>> to the VM guest. That might actually give you better performance. >>> >>> It is analogous to running a linux VM in a window and typing into its >>> console, vs running a linux VM headless and using ssh to connect to >>> it. Ssh is probably going to give you a more integrated experience >>> and better performance, because you're not virtualizing a console with >>> minimal support for stuff like the clipboard/etc. >>> >> >> Try using Nomachine.com NX. It is fastest remote connection, but it is >> proprietary. There is open source client available for Linux >> > > x2go is based on NX. I doubt that NX + VM console window is faster > than Citrix for accessing a Windows machine. NX was largely inspired > by Citrix. > > Both approaches have their pros and cons. NX is the right solution > for accessing a linux X11 server. rdp/citrix is probably the right > solution for accessing a windows console. So, the question is whether > you want to be accessing the VM console running on Linux, or directly > accessing the windows console running inside the VM. I suspect that > the latter is going to be a bit cleaner when you consider things like > clipboard support and such. But, if you want to be able to start/stop > the VM and such then obviously you can't do that from the windows > console. OK, I've maxed the RAM on Linux server that will be running two VM-Windows7 with 32GB of RAM and it has SSD so it should handle the load (8-core AMD). One VM-Windows7 run a program as a server the other VM-Windows7 acts as a client, run by another user. Another user will log to the his account on a sever via X2GO and start VM-Windows7 (run the same program but in a client mode). I've NX as well, but they have closed the source. X2GO was easier to install as well. The rdp might work. It would be best if I could by-pass the switch, since both VM's are running on the same Linux server. -- Thelma
Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Ural wrote: > Rich Freeman: >> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:12 PM, wrote: >>> >>> So, instead of getting into trouble of making disk-less node I figure it >>> out my Atom (small box) can access Main server via X2GO. I tested it on my >>> local network and speed wise it works OK. Buy my computer is much faster >>> than the Atom. So after upgrade I'll see how it will run. All boxes have >>> gigabit network cards. >>> >> >> While this would certainly work, you should also consider using a >> windows technology like rdp/citrix to connect directly from the client >> to the VM guest. That might actually give you better performance. >> >> It is analogous to running a linux VM in a window and typing into its >> console, vs running a linux VM headless and using ssh to connect to >> it. Ssh is probably going to give you a more integrated experience >> and better performance, because you're not virtualizing a console with >> minimal support for stuff like the clipboard/etc. >> > > Try using Nomachine.com NX. It is fastest remote connection, but it is > proprietary. There is open source client available for Linux > x2go is based on NX. I doubt that NX + VM console window is faster than Citrix for accessing a Windows machine. NX was largely inspired by Citrix. Both approaches have their pros and cons. NX is the right solution for accessing a linux X11 server. rdp/citrix is probably the right solution for accessing a windows console. So, the question is whether you want to be accessing the VM console running on Linux, or directly accessing the windows console running inside the VM. I suspect that the latter is going to be a bit cleaner when you consider things like clipboard support and such. But, if you want to be able to start/stop the VM and such then obviously you can't do that from the windows console. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
Rich Freeman: > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:12 PM, wrote: >> >> So, instead of getting into trouble of making disk-less node I figure it out >> my Atom (small box) can access Main server via X2GO. I tested it on my >> local network and speed wise it works OK. Buy my computer is much faster >> than the Atom. So after upgrade I'll see how it will run. All boxes have >> gigabit network cards. >> > > While this would certainly work, you should also consider using a > windows technology like rdp/citrix to connect directly from the client > to the VM guest. That might actually give you better performance. > > It is analogous to running a linux VM in a window and typing into its > console, vs running a linux VM headless and using ssh to connect to > it. Ssh is probably going to give you a more integrated experience > and better performance, because you're not virtualizing a console with > minimal support for stuff like the clipboard/etc. > Try using Nomachine.com NX. It is fastest remote connection, but it is proprietary. There is open source client available for Linux
Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 11:12 PM, wrote: > > So, instead of getting into trouble of making disk-less node I figure it out > my Atom (small box) can access Main server via X2GO. I tested it on my local > network and speed wise it works OK. Buy my computer is much faster than the > Atom. So after upgrade I'll see how it will run. All boxes have gigabit > network cards. > While this would certainly work, you should also consider using a windows technology like rdp/citrix to connect directly from the client to the VM guest. That might actually give you better performance. It is analogous to running a linux VM in a window and typing into its console, vs running a linux VM headless and using ssh to connect to it. Ssh is probably going to give you a more integrated experience and better performance, because you're not virtualizing a console with minimal support for stuff like the clipboard/etc. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
On 03/16/2017 03:31 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 3:02 PM, wrote: >> On 03/16/2017 05:58 AM, k...@aspodata.se wrote: >>> Thelma: Is anybody running Diskless machine, booting over network? How is the speed? >>> >>> I've done diskless before but it has been a few years since, >>> it was working just fine. Don't remember any specific issues >>> once you get it working. >>> I have a Gentoo machine running Windows7 via VM. I need to network another PC and connect to that VM so I was thinking setting up Diskless node but never done it before. >>> >>> You have to ask someone else about diskless MS-Windows. >>> >> >> I think I would "tax" the resources on the serving machine too much. I >> would need to run another VM-2 - Windows7 on the server that create >> access to VM-1 - Windows7 running the main program on the server. >> > > Can you clarify what you're trying to do? Are you looking to run > windows on a VM on a server as a "virtual desktop" and just access it > remotely from a diskless thin client using RDP or something like that? > If so there are a few options for this and it is actually a somewhat > normal configuration. Indeed you can still buy dedicated thin client > hardware that can be configured to do nothing more than boot up and > connect to your VM using RDP (or better still something like a Citrix > server). Often the thin clients just run linux and a citrix client, > but they could also run an embedded windows. They aren't really > diskless per se so much as flash-based but they aren't designed for > any kind of local storage other than their configuration. The main > advantage is that you don't have to worry about employees or such > storing data locally since they can't, and they use little power and > boot up really quickly and can't get viruses and such. The downside > is that they're a one-trick pony and these days there are better > options, like rolling your own with a Pi or whatever. > > Now, if what you want is a diskless linux client there are a bunch of > options. It might be used to run RDP and connect to a windows VM just > like a traditional thin client. Or it could just do whatever you'd > want to do with linux. I was PXE booting a mini-ITX linux box as a > mythtv frontend for years until the board died. Typically in this > configuration you'd serve the kernel and initramfs via PXE or similar > and then mount the root over nfs, but there are other options like > iSCSI or even just using a huge initramfs containing your whole OS. > > However, I'm not sure that is how I'd actually do it these days. A Pi > is dirt cheap, so I'd probably just use one of those and the OS is on > a flash disk. That makes it pretty easy to back up, and you could > install updates from another box. Doing it with Gentoo though would > be a little more painful. > > With my mini-ITX with an nfs root it was easier, since it was > Atom-based. I just updated the root filesystem from inside a chroot > on more powerful box. I just had to set an appropriate -march so that > it would run on both systems. That isn't quite as simple in the pi > example unless your build box is a compatible ARM server. You're > stuck cross-compiling everything otherwise. On a remote network I run VM-Window7 a program (that uses mainly MySQL database). This program can be access only via Window7 or higher so any user who wants to have an access to that database has to run some Windows7 or higher. The main server that runs that program will be 8-core AMD with 16GB of RAM But I want to give an access to another user to that Windiws7 program, and I don't have a dedicated machine running Windows I run Windows via VM only. I have a small box Atom 2GB RAM 500GB SSD (running mainly asterisk, hylafax) but it will not run Windows7 not enough RAM, CPU-power etc. It will run Windows7 but painfully slow. When you star Windows7 on it you can go and have a coffee :-/ System uname: Linux-3.14.14-gentoo-x86_64-Intel-R-_Atom-TM-_CPU_330_@_1.60GHz-with-gentoo-2.3 (I'm in the process of upgrading it). So, instead of getting into trouble of making disk-less node I figure it out my Atom (small box) can access Main server via X2GO. I tested it on my local network and speed wise it works OK. Buy my computer is much faster than the Atom. So after upgrade I'll see how it will run. All boxes have gigabit network cards. So the user that runs small Atom box will access the main server via X2GO and start another VM-Wndows7 on it. My main sever can handle running two Windows7 via VM. I think this is best solution for now. -- Thelma
Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 3:02 PM, wrote: > On 03/16/2017 05:58 AM, k...@aspodata.se wrote: >> Thelma: >>> Is anybody running Diskless machine, booting over network? >>> How is the speed? >> >> I've done diskless before but it has been a few years since, >> it was working just fine. Don't remember any specific issues >> once you get it working. >> >>> I have a Gentoo machine running Windows7 via VM. >>> I need to network another PC and connect to that VM so I was thinking >>> setting up Diskless node but never done it before. >> >> You have to ask someone else about diskless MS-Windows. >> > > I think I would "tax" the resources on the serving machine too much. I > would need to run another VM-2 - Windows7 on the server that create > access to VM-1 - Windows7 running the main program on the server. > Can you clarify what you're trying to do? Are you looking to run windows on a VM on a server as a "virtual desktop" and just access it remotely from a diskless thin client using RDP or something like that? If so there are a few options for this and it is actually a somewhat normal configuration. Indeed you can still buy dedicated thin client hardware that can be configured to do nothing more than boot up and connect to your VM using RDP (or better still something like a Citrix server). Often the thin clients just run linux and a citrix client, but they could also run an embedded windows. They aren't really diskless per se so much as flash-based but they aren't designed for any kind of local storage other than their configuration. The main advantage is that you don't have to worry about employees or such storing data locally since they can't, and they use little power and boot up really quickly and can't get viruses and such. The downside is that they're a one-trick pony and these days there are better options, like rolling your own with a Pi or whatever. Now, if what you want is a diskless linux client there are a bunch of options. It might be used to run RDP and connect to a windows VM just like a traditional thin client. Or it could just do whatever you'd want to do with linux. I was PXE booting a mini-ITX linux box as a mythtv frontend for years until the board died. Typically in this configuration you'd serve the kernel and initramfs via PXE or similar and then mount the root over nfs, but there are other options like iSCSI or even just using a huge initramfs containing your whole OS. However, I'm not sure that is how I'd actually do it these days. A Pi is dirt cheap, so I'd probably just use one of those and the OS is on a flash disk. That makes it pretty easy to back up, and you could install updates from another box. Doing it with Gentoo though would be a little more painful. With my mini-ITX with an nfs root it was easier, since it was Atom-based. I just updated the root filesystem from inside a chroot on more powerful box. I just had to set an appropriate -march so that it would run on both systems. That isn't quite as simple in the pi example unless your build box is a compatible ARM server. You're stuck cross-compiling everything otherwise. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
On 03/16/2017 05:58 AM, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > Thelma: >> Is anybody running Diskless machine, booting over network? >> How is the speed? > > I've done diskless before but it has been a few years since, > it was working just fine. Don't remember any specific issues > once you get it working. > >> I have a Gentoo machine running Windows7 via VM. >> I need to network another PC and connect to that VM so I was thinking >> setting up Diskless node but never done it before. > > You have to ask someone else about diskless MS-Windows. > Thanks for the input. I think I would "tax" the resources on the serving machine too much. I would need to run another VM-2 - Windows7 on the server that create access to VM-1 - Windows7 running the main program on the server. >> Would there be a problem with upgrades? >> I know all the node files have to reside on Sever from which the node is >> booting. > ... > > You have to know which files are system dependent och which are common > to all your diskless nodes and that depends on how and if you are > using any shared directories/disks for the nodes. > > Regards, > /Karl Hammar > > --- > Aspö Data > Lilla Aspö 148 > S-742 94 Östhammar > Sweden > +46 173 140 57 Sometimes I straggle with upgrades so introducing "diskless-node" might create extra challenges. -- Thelma
Re: [gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
Thelma: > Is anybody running Diskless machine, booting over network? > How is the speed? I've done diskless before but it has been a few years since, it was working just fine. Don't remember any specific issues once you get it working. > I have a Gentoo machine running Windows7 via VM. > I need to network another PC and connect to that VM so I was thinking > setting up Diskless node but never done it before. You have to ask someone else about diskless MS-Windows. > Would there be a problem with upgrades? > I know all the node files have to reside on Sever from which the node is > booting. ... You have to know which files are system dependent och which are common to all your diskless nodes and that depends on how and if you are using any shared directories/disks for the nodes. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57
[gentoo-user] Diskless nodes
Is anybody running Diskless machine, booting over network? How is the speed? I have a Gentoo machine running Windows7 via VM. I need to network another PC and connect to that VM so I was thinking setting up Diskless node but never done it before. Would there be a problem with upgrades? I know all the node files have to reside on Sever from which the node is booting. Or is is easier to just get one of those ThinkCentre Lenovo unit -- Thelma
