Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 18:52:13 GMT Dale wrote: > Peter Humphrey wrote: > > On Monday, 5 November 2018 20:40:46 GMT Dale wrote: > >> ... I also wish it wouldn't separate the file name and the extension. I > >> prefer them to be together. > > > > Right-click on the column header row and deselect Ext. > > That's to simple. I want something harder. ROFL Phillip sent me the > PDF manual and I've been looking through it but couldn't find anything. > I haven't been able to spend a lot of time on it yet tho. Still, I was > looking for a setting or some fix that goes in a config somewhere. I > never thought it would be that easy. > > Thanks much. Krusader just may replace Dolphin all together. It has > its good points for sure. Glad to be of service. Meanwhile, I went looking for key bindings, preferring to work at the keyboard when I can. I found page after page of them by searching for "krusader key bindings" in the F1 help. I wish I hadn't asked! It's almost as though the program designer wanted to challenge that other OS- in-an-editor, emacs. :) -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Monday, 5 November 2018 20:40:46 GMT Dale wrote: > >> ... I also wish it wouldn't separate the file name and the extension. I >> prefer them to be together. > Right-click on the column header row and deselect Ext. > That's to simple. I want something harder. ROFL Phillip sent me the PDF manual and I've been looking through it but couldn't find anything. I haven't been able to spend a lot of time on it yet tho. Still, I was looking for a setting or some fix that goes in a config somewhere. I never thought it would be that easy. Thanks much. Krusader just may replace Dolphin all together. It has its good points for sure. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
On Monday, 5 November 2018 20:40:46 GMT Dale wrote: > ... I also wish it wouldn't separate the file name and the extension. I > prefer them to be together. Right-click on the column header row and deselect Ext. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
dsonck wrote: > On 2018-11-05 21:40, Dale wrote: >> Philip Webb wrote: >>> 181105 Dale wrote: Currently I'm using Krusader. It works as root, so I can edit files in /etc, /root and such. >>> I can recommend Krusader to any KDE user. >>> I do most file management from CLI, but sometimes need heavy lifting. >>> If anyone tries it, they should look into its many features : >>> there's a PDF help doc available. >>> >> >> >> That's my thinking as well. It is different from Konqueror but it does >> the job pretty well and seems to be pretty light and fast. The biggest >> thing, it allows running as root. >> >> I've been really busy recently. My Mom was in the hospital for several >> weeks, that's a long time here. After that, she was in a nursing home >> trying to get her strength back and had a few set backs while there. >> She comes home tomorrow and is in better shape than she was over a year >> ago. Maybe even a couple years ago. That has kept me busy and pretty >> much wore out at times. I have health issues of my own. So, I haven't >> been able to really dig deep into Krusader as yet. Basically, I got it >> to where I can edit files in /etc and /root and pretty much left it as >> is. The one thing I'd like to change, being able to click/double click >> on a file and it open. That's how Dolphin and the old Konqueror was set >> up. As it is, you have to hit F4 to edit which opens Kwrite/Kate >> depending on settings for text files. I also wish it wouldn't separate >> the file name and the extension. I prefer them to be together. Heck, I >> might use Krusader as a regular user if I could get that last one >> configured right. ;-) >> >> I really do need to research that more. Do you have a link to that >> pdf? I'm on version 2.7.1. but any recent version would be nice. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > > I've been reading through this discussion and seen several references > to "run as root". As I've been guilty of doing that myself for a while > (and not realizing it was actually actively prevented since some > time), I decided to look into the reasoning why it's not possible > anymore. > > Apparently, it wasn't taken lightheartedly. The reasoning behind it > was that the terminal (which also has root now) can be activated and > used by injecting keystrokes (through XTest). Whether that's a concern > of the end user is up for them to decide (if you don't allow any > external party to access your system by not allowing ssh etc. you'd > basically be perfectly safe), but it's an interesting backdoor. > However, KDE also planned to bring in a more fine-grained approach by > allowing KIO to use PolicyKit to allow editing of restricted files. > This would mean that Dolphin, KWrite and Kate all get their "root" > back, but in the form of a "you require elevated rights to do this, > please specify your password" which can be protected better. > > Then again, this raises the issue of whether PolicyKit is such a great > feature. I've been having problems with that myself as it can and will > be DoS'd when it gets too many requests (had a rogue libvirt client > which did several requests all of which needed to go through PolicyKit > to verify access). While the failure mode is safe, it will block any > attempt at authorizing, it's a big nuisance because other things may > depend on it. > > Lastly, Qt also advises against being used under root due to the sheer > scope of the project which would mean that even krusader might not be > totally safe. > > I wanted to share this for those that read this discussion to > reiterate the implications allowing root, and allowing it in these GUI > applications. Of course, if it works for you and you don't see any > risk, by any means go for it. But also keep in mind that there are > apparently fair reasons behind this change. That said, I also started > to look into krusader and I might use it more. > > Greetings, > > Daniel Sonck > > I've read that too plus that some distros just don't need root much if any. Thing is, with Gentoo, root is required at times. Sometimes, it is the only way to edit certain files. Since I am almost always in a GUI, I prefer to use GUI tools, plus it is much easier to copy and paste as well. That said, I don't have ssh open here. I only have one system anyway so there is nothing to ssh in with. I also only open Krusader as root for short periods of time. Generally, during OS updates which I'm about two or three weeks late on I think. While it is safe for me, it may not be for others. Either way, sometimes you have to be root while doing updates. With Gentoo, it is just that way. As you rightly point out tho, in some situations, doing that could open a door. If one has those situations, they may want to either wait for a better solution or access those files some other way, nano on a console or something. As with anything, ones has to take into account security. Of course, I'm on DSL and behind a
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
On 2018-11-05 21:40, Dale wrote: Philip Webb wrote: 181105 Dale wrote: Currently I'm using Krusader. It works as root, so I can edit files in /etc, /root and such. I can recommend Krusader to any KDE user. I do most file management from CLI, but sometimes need heavy lifting. If anyone tries it, they should look into its many features : there's a PDF help doc available. That's my thinking as well. It is different from Konqueror but it does the job pretty well and seems to be pretty light and fast. The biggest thing, it allows running as root. I've been really busy recently. My Mom was in the hospital for several weeks, that's a long time here. After that, she was in a nursing home trying to get her strength back and had a few set backs while there. She comes home tomorrow and is in better shape than she was over a year ago. Maybe even a couple years ago. That has kept me busy and pretty much wore out at times. I have health issues of my own. So, I haven't been able to really dig deep into Krusader as yet. Basically, I got it to where I can edit files in /etc and /root and pretty much left it as is. The one thing I'd like to change, being able to click/double click on a file and it open. That's how Dolphin and the old Konqueror was set up. As it is, you have to hit F4 to edit which opens Kwrite/Kate depending on settings for text files. I also wish it wouldn't separate the file name and the extension. I prefer them to be together. Heck, I might use Krusader as a regular user if I could get that last one configured right. ;-) I really do need to research that more. Do you have a link to that pdf? I'm on version 2.7.1. but any recent version would be nice. Thanks. Dale :-) :-) I've been reading through this discussion and seen several references to "run as root". As I've been guilty of doing that myself for a while (and not realizing it was actually actively prevented since some time), I decided to look into the reasoning why it's not possible anymore. Apparently, it wasn't taken lightheartedly. The reasoning behind it was that the terminal (which also has root now) can be activated and used by injecting keystrokes (through XTest). Whether that's a concern of the end user is up for them to decide (if you don't allow any external party to access your system by not allowing ssh etc. you'd basically be perfectly safe), but it's an interesting backdoor. However, KDE also planned to bring in a more fine-grained approach by allowing KIO to use PolicyKit to allow editing of restricted files. This would mean that Dolphin, KWrite and Kate all get their "root" back, but in the form of a "you require elevated rights to do this, please specify your password" which can be protected better. Then again, this raises the issue of whether PolicyKit is such a great feature. I've been having problems with that myself as it can and will be DoS'd when it gets too many requests (had a rogue libvirt client which did several requests all of which needed to go through PolicyKit to verify access). While the failure mode is safe, it will block any attempt at authorizing, it's a big nuisance because other things may depend on it. Lastly, Qt also advises against being used under root due to the sheer scope of the project which would mean that even krusader might not be totally safe. I wanted to share this for those that read this discussion to reiterate the implications allowing root, and allowing it in these GUI applications. Of course, if it works for you and you don't see any risk, by any means go for it. But also keep in mind that there are apparently fair reasons behind this change. That said, I also started to look into krusader and I might use it more. Greetings, Daniel Sonck
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
Philip Webb wrote: > 181105 Dale wrote: >> Currently I'm using Krusader. It works as root, >> so I can edit files in /etc, /root and such. > I can recommend Krusader to any KDE user. > I do most file management from CLI, but sometimes need heavy lifting. > If anyone tries it, they should look into its many features : > there's a PDF help doc available. > That's my thinking as well. It is different from Konqueror but it does the job pretty well and seems to be pretty light and fast. The biggest thing, it allows running as root. I've been really busy recently. My Mom was in the hospital for several weeks, that's a long time here. After that, she was in a nursing home trying to get her strength back and had a few set backs while there. She comes home tomorrow and is in better shape than she was over a year ago. Maybe even a couple years ago. That has kept me busy and pretty much wore out at times. I have health issues of my own. So, I haven't been able to really dig deep into Krusader as yet. Basically, I got it to where I can edit files in /etc and /root and pretty much left it as is. The one thing I'd like to change, being able to click/double click on a file and it open. That's how Dolphin and the old Konqueror was set up. As it is, you have to hit F4 to edit which opens Kwrite/Kate depending on settings for text files. I also wish it wouldn't separate the file name and the extension. I prefer them to be together. Heck, I might use Krusader as a regular user if I could get that last one configured right. ;-) I really do need to research that more. Do you have a link to that pdf? I'm on version 2.7.1. but any recent version would be nice. Thanks. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
181105 Dale wrote: > Currently I'm using Krusader. It works as root, > so I can edit files in /etc, /root and such. I can recommend Krusader to any KDE user. I do most file management from CLI, but sometimes need heavy lifting. If anyone tries it, they should look into its many features : there's a PDF help doc available. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
Mick wrote: > On Saturday, 3 November 2018 22:44:32 GMT Dale wrote: >> Peter Humphrey wrote: >>> On Saturday, 3 November 2018 16:28:58 GMT wabe wrote: I would like to try Trinity Desktop (based on KDE3) but unfortunately there is no Gentoo package. I don't know if there is an Gentoo overlay containing Trinity, but I never used overlays and don't have time to fiddle around anyway. >>> In that case, from what I've seen I'd say you shouldn't even wonder about >>> trinity. You'd have to go back a long way with all manner of programs, and >>> even then perhaps not get everything you want. >>> >>> /2p >> I installed KDE3 for a friend with a very low powered computer several >> years ago. At the time, it was in the sunset overlay. Even then it was >> a headache and took some effort to install. Some newer programs outside >> of KDE wanted newer versions of libs and KDE3 wanted older ones. I had >> to install older versions of several programs just to make KDE3 happy. >> Given the changes that have been made over the years since, I doubt it >> is doable. I seem to recall that KDE3 wasn't well maintained back then >> and figure it may even be worse now if it is maintained at all with >> regards to Gentoo. >> >> If had to do a install today for a low powered system, I'd find >> something besides KDE3 even tho I still miss some things about it too. >> There's plenty of more maintained desktops out there to look at. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > I also liked KDE-3 more than anything which succeeded it from the KDE stable > and have mourned its passing. I also particularly liked Konqueror's > integration with file management. The current Konqueror maintainer is trying > single-handedly to keep it running as a simple browser and does not have the > (human) resources to recreate the FM functionality of KDE 3 on it. He has > asked for devs to join him, but had no takers. > > I've tried Trinity in the past, but at the time it was nowhere near developed > enough to use on a daily basis. > Dolphin stopped allowing root access a while back. When that happened, I starting looking for another file manager that isn't constantly making changes that don't work for me. Currently I'm using Krusader. It works as root so I can edit files in /etc, /root and such. While I get that in most distros that setting may be good, it isn't for Gentoo where we have to edit files as root. I also have a couple others installed as a backup to Krusader. One thing that concerns me about Konqueror and KDE3, security issues. Unless there is enough people involved to fix security issues, they shouldn't be used at least for anything network/internet related depending on the situation of course. One should always consider security fixes. I suspect there isn't enough people wanting Trinity on Gentoo is the reason it isn't available. That said, if it was and was well maintained, I'd certainly give it a look. Sadly tho, I think Trinity/KDE3 was be dying at some point. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
On Saturday, 3 November 2018 22:44:32 GMT Dale wrote: > Peter Humphrey wrote: > > On Saturday, 3 November 2018 16:28:58 GMT wabe wrote: > >> I would like to try Trinity Desktop (based on KDE3) but unfortunately > >> there is no Gentoo package. I don't know if there is an Gentoo overlay > >> containing Trinity, but I never used overlays and don't have time to > >> fiddle around anyway. > > > > In that case, from what I've seen I'd say you shouldn't even wonder about > > trinity. You'd have to go back a long way with all manner of programs, and > > even then perhaps not get everything you want. > > > > /2p > > I installed KDE3 for a friend with a very low powered computer several > years ago. At the time, it was in the sunset overlay. Even then it was > a headache and took some effort to install. Some newer programs outside > of KDE wanted newer versions of libs and KDE3 wanted older ones. I had > to install older versions of several programs just to make KDE3 happy. > Given the changes that have been made over the years since, I doubt it > is doable. I seem to recall that KDE3 wasn't well maintained back then > and figure it may even be worse now if it is maintained at all with > regards to Gentoo. > > If had to do a install today for a low powered system, I'd find > something besides KDE3 even tho I still miss some things about it too. > There's plenty of more maintained desktops out there to look at. > > Dale > > :-) :-) I also liked KDE-3 more than anything which succeeded it from the KDE stable and have mourned its passing. I also particularly liked Konqueror's integration with file management. The current Konqueror maintainer is trying single-handedly to keep it running as a simple browser and does not have the (human) resources to recreate the FM functionality of KDE 3 on it. He has asked for devs to join him, but had no takers. I've tried Trinity in the past, but at the time it was nowhere near developed enough to use on a daily basis. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Saturday, 3 November 2018 16:28:58 GMT wabe wrote: > >> I would like to try Trinity Desktop (based on KDE3) but unfortunately >> there is no Gentoo package. I don't know if there is an Gentoo overlay >> containing Trinity, but I never used overlays and don't have time to >> fiddle around anyway. > In that case, from what I've seen I'd say you shouldn't even wonder about > trinity. You'd have to go back a long way with all manner of programs, and > even then perhaps not get everything you want. > > /2p > I installed KDE3 for a friend with a very low powered computer several years ago. At the time, it was in the sunset overlay. Even then it was a headache and took some effort to install. Some newer programs outside of KDE wanted newer versions of libs and KDE3 wanted older ones. I had to install older versions of several programs just to make KDE3 happy. Given the changes that have been made over the years since, I doubt it is doable. I seem to recall that KDE3 wasn't well maintained back then and figure it may even be worse now if it is maintained at all with regards to Gentoo. If had to do a install today for a low powered system, I'd find something besides KDE3 even tho I still miss some things about it too. There's plenty of more maintained desktops out there to look at. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
On Saturday, 3 November 2018 16:28:58 GMT wabe wrote: > I would like to try Trinity Desktop (based on KDE3) but unfortunately > there is no Gentoo package. I don't know if there is an Gentoo overlay > containing Trinity, but I never used overlays and don't have time to > fiddle around anyway. In that case, from what I've seen I'd say you shouldn't even wonder about trinity. You'd have to go back a long way with all manner of programs, and even then perhaps not get everything you want. /2p -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
Alan Grimes wrote: > I have not seen KDE add a single feature or even fix a single bug > (while letting new bugs pile up) in FIVE YEARS. They version bump > their entire suite for no reason every five minutes but nothing gets > even slightly better. KDE has'nt been worth anything since the QT4 > cataclysm, 3.59 was pretty darn good. =\ Kdevelop3 only needed to be > restarted once a week... You could binge program with it for an > ENTIRE WEEK without restarting it... It had some wonderful class > inheratance heirarchy graphing tools so that you could learn > codebases nice and quick and go in and refactor them. After KDE3 wasn't supported any longer and KDE4 was unusable in my opinion, I tested IceWM, Windowmaker and Sawfish/Sawmill. Finally I switched to XFCE which I still use. I would like to try Trinity Desktop (based on KDE3) but unfortunately there is no Gentoo package. I don't know if there is an Gentoo overlay containing Trinity, but I never used overlays and don't have time to fiddle around anyway. https://www.trinitydesktop.org -- Regards wabe
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
> On 2018-11-03, at 00:43, Alan Grimes wrote: > > I have not seen KDE add a single feature or even fix a single bug (while > letting new bugs pile up) in FIVE YEARS. They version bump their entire > suite for no reason every five minutes but nothing gets even slightly > better. KDE has'nt been worth anything since the QT4 cataclysm, 3.59 was > pretty darn good. =\ Kdevelop3 only needed to be restarted once a > week... You could binge program with it for an ENTIRE WEEK without > restarting it... It had some wonderful class inheratance heirarchy > graphing tools so that you could learn codebases nice and quick and go > in and refactor them. There are a lot of new features in KDE but you may not be aware of them or you do not care for them. But a lot of KDE 4's changes was to upgrade to KDE 4 without inheriting the code issues of Qt 3/KDE 3.5 code (KF5 continues this with Qt 5). Also with KF5 they are splitting up the code base so that it can be used in a more modular form. Prior to KF5, using KDE code in other projects was almost impossible without being dependent on the very large kdelibs library (which is an issue on other platforms as well where loading that many libraries at launch time takes a while). My main criticism of KDE 4 and onward is the introduction of Akonadi. I've never had much success with it especially with KMail. > How did they make it so that 40% of ordinary zip files I try to open > with konqueror fail CRC (but work perfectly from the command line) > > It used to have nice large icon mode with previews, and nice small-icons > in normal mode... Broken too for many months now. =\ You have to give up on Konqueror as a file manager. It just doesn't get much support for that anymore. I've abandoned Konqueror completely as it's far behind as a web browser compared to Firefox/Chrome. Dolphinpart which runs within Konqueror to make it a file manager is almost the same as Dolphin. Although there are things that annoy me in Dolphin, it gets more maintenance and a bug report is much more likely to be addressed. > > Akregator crashes all the time if I simply try to close a tab... It went > about three years without saving anything to disk when it's supposed to > buffer my RSS feeds. Now it's just crashtastic in the extreme... Even Google completely dropped their RSS reader. I have my doubts that this app gets a lot of maintenance. > > Microsoft must be paying Good Money (tm) to the FS developers to keep > breaking stuff at this rate. =| Trouble is afoot! Given the track record of late (like owning GitHub) I don't think so. -- Andrew Udvare
[gentoo-user] What's with KDE?
I have not seen KDE add a single feature or even fix a single bug (while letting new bugs pile up) in FIVE YEARS. They version bump their entire suite for no reason every five minutes but nothing gets even slightly better. KDE has'nt been worth anything since the QT4 cataclysm, 3.59 was pretty darn good. =\ Kdevelop3 only needed to be restarted once a week... You could binge program with it for an ENTIRE WEEK without restarting it... It had some wonderful class inheratance heirarchy graphing tools so that you could learn codebases nice and quick and go in and refactor them. Unfortunately I don't think even Don Corleone could get me a programming job. =( How did they make it so that 40% of ordinary zip files I try to open with konqueror fail CRC (but work perfectly from the command line) It used to have nice large icon mode with previews, and nice small-icons in normal mode... Broken too for many months now. =\ Akregator crashes all the time if I simply try to close a tab... It went about three years without saving anything to disk when it's supposed to buffer my RSS feeds. Now it's just crashtastic in the extreme... FVWM seems to need an update for the new X11, icons still broken, can't fullscreen a window properly anymore. -- Used to work great far like FIFTEEN FRIGGIN YEARS WITHOUT USER INTERVENTION! Microsoft must be paying Good Money (tm) to the FS developers to keep breaking stuff at this rate. =| -- Please report bounces from this address to a...@numentics.com Powers are not rights.
