Re: [Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto]
> OSS seems to be dead, Yes. > ALSA is said by some to be dying, Certainly not :) . > ARTS looks like a do-(almost)-everything, but a few lacks, Arts is dying. Forget about it. > DMIX looks like 'almost there, with limits', This is softwaremixing for ALSA, but if you do want pro audio work, forget about it. > JACK is a playback(?) enhancer for 1+ of the above, JACK is an audio server for pro audio work. If you want to do pro audio work, install JACK and qjackctl (both available in the gentoo repository, but try more recent packages). > SKYPE looks like a record tool. Skype is a proprietary VIOP solution. [...] > What I need to know is what works-//collides-with what, and > the features/abilities of each, so I can decide what I will > need, and maybe not fiddle-faddle too much with > installing-&-testing-&-removing-&-... to have it right. If you know what you're doing, nothing will conflict. The art is to understand all systems and combine them. See sysexxer.sf.net for some introdicing videos. > What are the features & abibities of each of the above, > generaly & specifically? More to the point, could you > please point me to the best places/docos to find all this > out for myself? Maybe the home pages &/or other > -definitive- sites? And for any other softwares that you > feel I should know about! If you want to use linux as an audio machine (as a musician), then visit http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/subscribelau.php and subscribe to the users list. > > Environment: Shuttle AN35N/nForce2/400/ultra/MCP mobo, AMD > XP 2700+, 1GB, 200GB (plus removables), ATI AIW9600 dually, > CL SB Live! in PCI slot, kernel is basically the 2004.3 / > 2.6.11-r4 install with PickledOnion for now -- will > probably not do over one or two general updates a year, and > not too many selected updates; if it works so that I can > work & play, leave it alone! (in computers for last ~~22 > years). Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto]
[digest-mode reply] (and much belated, at that! -- catching up.) From: Christoph Eckert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:51:10 +0200 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Don't hesitate to ask me . Christoph, A small request, if you would be so kind. (Or anyone else who feels that they have really good knowledge here! :) ) I am trying to -manufacture- the time to get several synths & drum machines & patchbays and other such digital sound equipment, as well as some guitars & basses, mics, line-in, and possibly other stuff, set up with my computer. Target software includes recorders, playback, sound-processing of *all* sorts, mixers, librarians, and so on. Composing music, basically. (Sheet music format preferred as basis, but will eventually need *all* sorts of views, roll, event, &&&c.) And I kind-of expect to also get into video edit/mix/create in the future. What I -don't- expect my computer to be is the home-entertainment system itself -- one, I'm an audiophile (on a budget, alas!!), two, therefrom I do note that CDA does poorly with cymbals, chimes, and all other really high things & overtones -- though it wins *everything* else!, three, obviously, I have little taste for MP3, and four, I like *BIG* screens at a comfortable distance (& sound!). I even have a stereo -right- next to the computer. And then there is just the whole entire everyday world of computer playback, sounds, etc. I can do most of this in MonopleSoft WhinedoZZZe, but I am trying to move to Linux (and after a year and several distros I decided on Gentoo), and I will want better tools for almost everything; heck, just good tools for lots of all this -- only bought a couple of ~expensive WhinedoZZZe packages, and after I find what I need/want, I may give those away... OK!, all that in mind for future-thought reference, the following: OSS seems to be dead, ALSA is said by some to be dying, ARTS looks like a do-(almost)-everything, but a few lacks, DMIX looks like 'almost there, with limits', JACK is a playback(?) enhancer for 1+ of the above, SKYPE looks like a record tool. I know I got at least some of this wrong! So, since I will -- hopefully! -- in the next few weeks start worrying about all this (kde is silent for the last few weeks, but did have sound)... What I am asking for now is the 'everyday' stuff, with some idea of long-term conflicts/issues/pluses/&c. What I need to know is what works-//collides-with what, and the features/abilities of each, so I can decide what I will need, and maybe not fiddle-faddle too much with installing-&-testing-&-removing-&-... to have it right. What are the features & abibities of each of the above, generaly & specifically? More to the point, could you please point me to the best places/docos to find all this out for myself? Maybe the home pages &/or other -definitive- sites? And for any other softwares that you feel I should know about! Environment: Shuttle AN35N/nForce2/400/ultra/MCP mobo, AMD XP 2700+, 1GB, 200GB (plus removables), ATI AIW9600 dually, CL SB Live! in PCI slot, kernel is basically the 2004.3 / 2.6.11-r4 install with PickledOnion for now -- will probably not do over one or two general updates a year, and not too many selected updates; if it works so that I can work & play, leave it alone! (in computers for last ~~22 years). Thank you for your time reading this! Thank you in advance for any reply! Robert G. Hays. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (main eddress) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (permanent eddress) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
Hi, > Here at home I have a Creative Audigy which one I guess > have hardwaremixing capability I don't know if it is able to do hardware mixing. > but at my job I have a > nForce2 based onboard soundcard which one I'm not sure if > have hardwaremixing. I guess it is a device compliant to the AC '97 standard, and if so it isn't. > I did a test killing all process of > esd and arts and trying to play more than one instance of > music playing and that's works very well with Audigy but > don't with nForce2 onboard audio. This confirms my thought above. > An other thing that I've noticed is that skype just work > without arts or esd, so I've to run "skype oss" to be able > to use it (at my home machine, since I don't use skype at > job yet). Hm, this confuses me a bit. What does the option OSS change in the Skype behaviour? I just found out that Skype 1.0 can work on arts, esd and ALSA respectively OSS. So running arts or esd will cause Skype to automatically connect to it. If you run arts, then please ensure to enable full duplex for it via the KDE control center. Per default, it works on playback only. > I think that at home I do not need any of this daemons but > at my job I will give dmix a try, so I have to ask you if > even with dmix I'll need to use arts and/or esd? This depends. Why? Difficult to understand. An audio developer has to choose at least one audio output system, may it be OSS direct device access, ALSA direct device access, an soundserver like esound, arts, gstreamer or JACK. And if the developer has lots of time and patience, he makes the application's audio output based on plugins so it can output sound to various audio subsystems via the plugins. Have a look in the xmms preferences; it can output audio via JACK, esound, arts, ALSA or OSS. As soon as you configure DMIX on a card which is not able to do hardware mixing, then DMIX does software mixing for any application which wants to output sound to the ALSA device directly. OK, so you configure DMIX and stop all sound deamons. Multiple apps which want to access the only available ALSA device will now be able to output sound. But what about applications which need arts, esd or gstreamer? These will fail. So, if you want to be failsave you can now - thanks to DMIX - run all soundservers simultaneously: arts, esd, gstreamer and JACK. Additionally, any application which cannot output sound via a soundserver but requires ALSA direct access can play through the DMIX plugin, regardless that there are already 4 soundservers running on the same device. But I guess this costs some CPU power. So if I only wanted to run xmms and Skype at the same time, I'd run arts or esound depending on the desktop environment I run and then I'd make xmms outputting audio via the running soundserver. As soon as you run Skype, it will autodetect the soundserver running and connect to it. Remember to enable your soundserver to work in full duplex mode. Phew, a long mail. Concerning audio on Linux, it's still a difficult thing, but if you know what to do, you can get almost everything to work ;-) . Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
Christoph Eckert wrote: >>There is an alsa plugin to allow any native alsa >>application to connect through the jack server. >> Unfortunately I've never been able to get acceptable sound >>quality using it this way >> >> > >I guess you mean bio2jack.sf.net? > > > No, I mean 'media-plugins/alsa-jack'. No application changes are necessary if the app already knows alsa...it just appears as another output possibility and is configured in your .asoundrc file, like dmix. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
> There is an alsa plugin to allow any native alsa > application to connect through the jack server. > Unfortunately I've never been able to get acceptable sound > quality using it this way I guess you mean bio2jack.sf.net? It's available as a xmms plugin and works fine. Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
Christoph Eckert schreef: > > Even if you're not running KDE you can install arts standalone > and start it via any login script. Dunno where esound can get > started. rc-update in other words, rc-update add esound default . Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
Christoph Eckert wrote: >Hi, > > >>Afaik "jack" >>should enable this, but I have never tried it >> >> > >JACK is a specialised soundserver for realtime audio stuff >used by musicians (that's why I'm running JACK all the >time ;) . > >I doubt that Skype will ever be able to talk to JACK. What you >plan to do is likely possible without JACK, but sound on >Linux is still a complicated and difficult issue. Don't >hesitate to ask me :) . > > There is an alsa plugin to allow any native alsa application to connect through the jack server. Unfortunately I've never been able to get acceptable sound quality using it this way -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
On 6/7/05, Christoph Eckert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > > > This is all correct, but it should be noted that dmix does > > NOT provide full-duplex capabilities: > > If your card is able to work in full duplex or not does not > depend on ALSA but the hardware. Cheap AC '97 chips are able > to work in full duplex mode. > > > this means that you > > will probably be able to listen to sounds coming from > > different sources (applications) > > Yes, that's the work of DMIX if your card doesn't support > hardwaremixing. DMIX does softwaremixing similar like a > soundserver does. > > > but you will not be able > > to do so while using skype, for example. > > You can use bidirectional audio regardless if DMIX is running > or not. Furthermore, there's another ALSA plugin besides DMIX > that shares audio input for multiple applications (I forgot > the name, again search alsa.opensrc.org). > > > Afaik "jack" > > should enable this, but I have never tried it > > JACK is a specialised soundserver for realtime audio stuff > used by musicians (that's why I'm running JACK all the > time ;) . > Christoph, Here at home I have a Creative Audigy which one I guess have hardwaremixing capability but at my job I have a nForce2 based onboard soundcard which one I'm not sure if have hardwaremixing. I did a test killing all process of esd and arts and trying to play more than one instance of music playing and that's works very well with Audigy but don't with nForce2 onboard audio. An other thing that I've noticed is that skype just work without arts or esd, so I've to run "skype oss" to be able to use it (at my home machine, since I don't use skype at job yet). I think that at home I do not need any of this daemons but at my job I will give dmix a try, so I have to ask you if even with dmix I'll need to use arts and/or esd? Tks in advice. Claudinei Matos -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
Hi, > This is all correct, but it should be noted that dmix does > NOT provide full-duplex capabilities: If your card is able to work in full duplex or not does not depend on ALSA but the hardware. Cheap AC '97 chips are able to work in full duplex mode. > this means that you > will probably be able to listen to sounds coming from > different sources (applications) Yes, that's the work of DMIX if your card doesn't support hardwaremixing. DMIX does softwaremixing similar like a soundserver does. > but you will not be able > to do so while using skype, for example. You can use bidirectional audio regardless if DMIX is running or not. Furthermore, there's another ALSA plugin besides DMIX that shares audio input for multiple applications (I forgot the name, again search alsa.opensrc.org). > Afaik "jack" > should enable this, but I have never tried it JACK is a specialised soundserver for realtime audio stuff used by musicians (that's why I'm running JACK all the time ;) . I doubt that Skype will ever be able to talk to JACK. What you plan to do is likely possible without JACK, but sound on Linux is still a complicated and difficult issue. Don't hesitate to ask me :) . Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
Christoph Eckert wrote: The currently best solution is to configure the DMIX plugin for ALSA (search alsa.opensrc.org for "sharing") and run both arts and esound on top of it. This way, arts and esound aware applications can play sound *as well as* applications which can output sound directly to the hardware device. This is all correct, but it should be noted that dmix does NOT provide full-duplex capabilities: this means that you will probably be able to listen to sounds coming from different sources (applications) but you will not be able to do so while using skype, for example. Afaik "jack" should enable this, but I have never tried it AS -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
> Coming to my job I did get a try to use start esd at shell > prompt and suddenly I could run a lot of xmms instances and > listen to all they at the same time. PLease note that xmms (unlike many others) has various output plugins for several sound systems. The advantage of audio servers are that there are many. Run arts => apps needing esound cannot output audio (and vice versa). The currently best solution is to configure the DMIX plugin for ALSA (search alsa.opensrc.org for "sharing") and run both arts and esound on top of it. This way, arts and esound aware applications can play sound *as well as* applications which can output sound directly to the hardware device. > Well, now I know that if I want to run 2 or more softwares > at same time I have to use esd or arts but I don't want to > start it manually all the time so I want to know if is > there some place to setup arts,esd or even other sound > daemon? Even if you're not running KDE you can install arts standalone and start it via any login script. Dunno where esound can get started. Hope this helps. Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] esd or arts, sound daemon howto
hi, I have 2 box with gentoo, one at my home and other at work. well, the one of home have alsa drivers for sound and I used gnome as desktop for a while. I always was able to listen sound from a lot of softwares at same time and didn't needed to do any manual configuration to this. At my work machine I have installed gnome and some parts of kde but I preferer to use xfce instead. Since I've installed this system I never could get 2 or more softwares at the same time 'cause the second instance can't access dsp device. I did setup alsa correctly and even that never works. Some days ago I was installing skype at home and had to work with somethings about esd and arts. Coming to my job I did get a try to use start esd at shell prompt and suddenly I could run a lot of xmms instances and listen to all they at the same time. Well, now I know that if I want to run 2 or more softwares at same time I have to use esd or arts but I don't want to start it manually all the time so I want to know if is there some place to setup arts,esd or even other sound daemon? tks in advice claudinei matos -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
