Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Jude DaShiell]

My advice is to keep tabs on python2.7 libraries and their conversion to
python 3 and when 100% of those libraries have been converted the old
scripts may be easier to convert using existing python tools.  The sed
editor may get you part of the way through conversion but missing python
3 libraries could stop progress if such libraries are needed.

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, n952162 wrote:

> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 16:03:27
> From: n952162 
> Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all
> broken?
>
> On 11/15/20 2:39 PM, n952162 wrote:
> > Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that
> > intentional?
> >
> >
> >
>
> All in all, I'd say I got a lot of good feedback.
>
>
>
>

-- 
United States has 633 Billionaires with only 10 doing any annual
significant giving.

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[n952162]

On 11/15/20 2:39 PM, n952162 wrote:

Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that
intentional?





All in all, I'd say I got a lot of good feedback.

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 09:38:53 -0500, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> The sed editor might be helpful doing migrations from python 2.7 into
> python 3.  This would need a sed expert knowing both flavors of python
> to write those scripts though and I don't know if any of that was
> already done.

There are already the 2to3 scripts for converting Python2 scripts to work
with Python3. The main issue with migrating is if you are using a library
that hasn't be ported to Python3.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs.


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Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 6:39 AM n952162  wrote:
>
> Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that intentional?
>
>

python2.7 is circa 2010 with updates through 2019

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2716/

You should be able to install it in a segregated user virtualenv. Once
safely there portage won't touch it and backups are a breeze because it's
in your account.

While I don't use it I imagine there's almost got to be a way to do
something similar with Anaconda.

If worse comes to worse then set up a VM with an older distro version and
run it in the VM. 2.7 isn't on any of my Ubuntu systems but it appears to
be in the repo.

HTH,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 9:38 AM Jude DaShiell  wrote:
>
> The sed editor might be helpful doing migrations from python 2.7 into
> python 3.  This would need a sed expert knowing both flavors of python to
> write those scripts though and I don't know if any of that was already
> done.

Nobody is forbidden from trying to fork broken packages whose
upstreams are dead and fixing them.  I'm sure there are tools to help
with migrations.

Stuff that ends up going away is probably unpopular enough or complex
enough that nobody can be bothered to do this.

However, if you want to take some v2-only package and fork the
upstream and make your only v3 package, Gentoo would have no policy
against having it in the repository.  You're just another upstream,
and plenty of stuff in the repository was forked from something else.

Sometimes Gentoo devs do the forking, but this is generally a matter
of personal interest like anything else.  It isn't a Gentoo policy to
prop up stuff with dead upstreams for some period of time.  A product
like RHEL might be a better choice if that is what you're into, but
obviously going that route has its cons as well as its pros, and I'm
sure like with most commercial products the more money you spend the
more of an ear you get with the engineering team.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Dale]

n952162 wrote:
> On 11/15/20 2:53 PM, Alessandro Barbieri wrote:
>> You are 5 years late
>>
>> >So, in 2008, we announced that we >would sunset Python 2 in 2015,
>> and >asked people to upgrade before then. >Some did, but many did
>> not. So, in 2014, >we extended that sunset till 2020.
>>
>> See also
>> https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/
>> https://pythonclock.org/
>>
>> Il Dom 15 Nov 2020, 14:39 n952162 > > ha scritto:
>>
>> Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that
>> intentional?
>>
>>
>>
>
> "Python 2.7 will not be maintained past 2020
> ."
>
> There are no unmaintained packages in gentoo?
>
>



Eventually unmaintained packages get treecleaned.  If a package fails to
build and someone files a bug report, that can easily trigger the
treecleaning.  Of course, there are systems that test these sorts of
things and sometimes it catches packages that fail to build with the
same result.  They got names for those systems but I can't recall them. 
>From my understanding, they build various packages and look for build
failures and report problems. 

So, while there may be a few that have no maintainer but still work,
there is likely very, very few that have no maintainer and fail to
build.  I monitor -dev and I see last rites for packages all the time
for just that reason. On occasion someone picks up a package and fixes
them but quite often, the package is dead upstream and been replaced by
something newer, just like python 2.7 is doing.  It's just that python
is going to newer versions that aren't compatible with the old ways. 

I've seen so many posts about python 2.7 going away, I'm pretty glad it
is gone.  The devs have been posting and working on this for a long,
long time now.  I might add, it took quite a lot of effort on their part
as well. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Ralph Seichter]

* n952...@web.de:

> I confess, I never really read the fine print to the end because it
> never occurred to me that python would be so gratuitously
> authoritarian as that.

Now look at you. Hiding behind an anonymous freemail address, not paying
attention (for years), whining that the makers of a free programming
language wisely decided to abandon an outdated version for which free
updates have been available (for years), so as to better focus their
efforts.

You don't get to whine about things like that. It is that simple.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Jude DaShiell]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, Rich Freeman wrote:

> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 09:32:37
> From: Rich Freeman 
> Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all
> broken?
>
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 9:03 AM n952162  wrote:
> >
> > I'm trying to think of another language that just tossed it's whole body of 
> > legacy code out the window ... okay Microsoft word does that to its 
> > user-base regularly, it's true...
> >
>
> I'm sure MS has done it, but they're not really a good example to
> pick.  MS actually has a really strong history of planned software
> lifecycles, and their core stuff has incredibly long support
> schedules.  I'm not sure how the evergreen Win10 strategy has impacted
> things, but historically on OSes MS's policy is that they will
> security support an OS for 10 years after obsolescence (not
> introduction).  Windows XP was supported until 2014.
>
> The complaints about end-of-support for MS are usually the result of
> the fact that those timelines are so incredibly long.  People just
> take for granted that their stuff will be around forever and deploy
> software without any thought to how OS changes will work, lay off the
> entire development team a few years later, and then after half a
> decade scratch their heads about what they're going to do since nobody
> has any idea how to fix it and the end-of-life that was known to the
> day a full decade prior has arrived.
>
> If you're using technology you should be aware that basically all
> software has some kind of lifecycle policy.  If it isn't written down,
> then you should assume that the policy is that it will stop working
> without any promises or warning.
>
> If you're willing to just keep migrating to the latest and greatest
> then you don't have to worry about it so much.  However, if you like
> to keep using the same stuff and manage your changes, then you need to
> plan around this stuff.
>
> You could always use a distro like RHEL that has a distro-level
> support policy.  They would probably backport security fixes and such
> for anything they're distributing where they're promised.  When you
> buy into an OS with more formal support processes one of the things
> you're buying into is defined timelines that you can plan your own
> work around.  That doesn't necessarily mean that those timelines will
> be as long as you want them to be - they're just written down.
>
The sed editor might be helpful doing migrations from python 2.7 into
python 3.  This would need a sed expert knowing both flavors of python to
write those scripts though and I don't know if any of that was already
done.

>

-- United States has 633 Billionaires with only 10 doing any annual
significant giving.

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 9:03 AM n952162  wrote:
>
> I'm trying to think of another language that just tossed it's whole body of 
> legacy code out the window ... okay Microsoft word does that to its user-base 
> regularly, it's true...
>

I'm sure MS has done it, but they're not really a good example to
pick.  MS actually has a really strong history of planned software
lifecycles, and their core stuff has incredibly long support
schedules.  I'm not sure how the evergreen Win10 strategy has impacted
things, but historically on OSes MS's policy is that they will
security support an OS for 10 years after obsolescence (not
introduction).  Windows XP was supported until 2014.

The complaints about end-of-support for MS are usually the result of
the fact that those timelines are so incredibly long.  People just
take for granted that their stuff will be around forever and deploy
software without any thought to how OS changes will work, lay off the
entire development team a few years later, and then after half a
decade scratch their heads about what they're going to do since nobody
has any idea how to fix it and the end-of-life that was known to the
day a full decade prior has arrived.

If you're using technology you should be aware that basically all
software has some kind of lifecycle policy.  If it isn't written down,
then you should assume that the policy is that it will stop working
without any promises or warning.

If you're willing to just keep migrating to the latest and greatest
then you don't have to worry about it so much.  However, if you like
to keep using the same stuff and manage your changes, then you need to
plan around this stuff.

You could always use a distro like RHEL that has a distro-level
support policy.  They would probably backport security fixes and such
for anything they're distributing where they're promised.  When you
buy into an OS with more formal support processes one of the things
you're buying into is defined timelines that you can plan your own
work around.  That doesn't necessarily mean that those timelines will
be as long as you want them to be - they're just written down.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Consus]

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 03:25:28PM +0100, n952162 wrote:

"Python 2.7 will not be maintained past 2020
."

There are no unmaintained packages in gentoo?


You are more then welcome to support your own overlay gentoo-python2!

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:25:28 +0100, n952162 wrote:

> "Python 2.7 will not be maintained past 2020
> ."
> 
> There are no unmaintained packages in gentoo?

A few, such as Python 2.7.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"What I need is a list of specific unknown problems we will encounter."


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Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[n952162]

On 11/15/20 2:53 PM, Alessandro Barbieri wrote:

You are 5 years late

>So, in 2008, we announced that we >would sunset Python 2 in 2015, and
>asked people to upgrade before then. >Some did, but many did not. So,
in 2014, >we extended that sunset till 2020.

See also
https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/

https://pythonclock.org/ 

Il Dom 15 Nov 2020, 14:39 n952162 mailto:n952...@web.de>> ha scritto:

Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that
intentional?





"Python 2.7 will not be maintained past 2020
."

There are no unmaintained packages in gentoo?

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[n952162]

On 11/15/20 2:52 PM, Miles Malone wrote:
> Well yeah, after a *lot* of news items to that effect, and of course
the fact it's been deprecated for years anyway, it's gone. If you need
the interpreter only for some scripts just select it in your world file,
it'll be around a wee while longer, but the entire ecosystem is kaput,
dead, gone, not coming back, so if your scripts are using any py2.7
libraries you're probably hot out of luck. Just the interpreter will be
around a little bit longer because there's a few packages that for
annoying reasons still need it just as a build dependency.  Notably chromium
>
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 at 23:39, n952162  wrote:
>
> Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that
intentional?


On 11/15/20 3:07 PM, n952162 wrote:


I confess, I never really read the fine print to the end because it
never occurred to me that python would be so gratuitously
authoritarian as that.




But I admit, there was a nasty sense of that authoritarianism in the
various warnings/threats over the years.

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[n952162]

I confess, I never really read the fine print to the end because it
never occurred to me that python would be so gratuitously authoritarian
as that.


On 11/15/20 2:52 PM, Miles Malone wrote:

Well yeah, after a *lot* of news items to that effect, and of course
the fact it's been deprecated for years anyway, it's gone.  If you
need the interpreter only for some scripts just select it in your
world file, it'll be around a wee while longer, but the entire
ecosystem is kaput, dead, gone, not coming back, so if your scripts
are using any py2.7 libraries you're probably hot out of luck. Just
the interpreter will be around a little bit longer because there's a
few packages that for annoying reasons still need it just as a build
dependency. Notably chromium

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 at 23:39, n952162 mailto:n952...@web.de>> wrote:

Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that
intentional?

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[n952162]

I'm trying to think of another language that just tossed it's whole body
of legacy code out the window ... okay Microsoft word does that to its
user-base regularly, it's true...

On 11/15/20 2:52 PM, Miles Malone wrote:

Well yeah, after a *lot* of news items to that effect, and of course
the fact it's been deprecated for years anyway, it's gone.  If you
need the interpreter only for some scripts just select it in your
world file, it'll be around a wee while longer, but the entire
ecosystem is kaput, dead, gone, not coming back, so if your scripts
are using any py2.7 libraries you're probably hot out of luck. Just
the interpreter will be around a little bit longer because there's a
few packages that for annoying reasons still need it just as a build
dependency. Notably chromium

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 at 23:39, n952162 mailto:n952...@web.de>> wrote:

Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that
intentional?

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Alessandro Barbieri]

You are 5 years late

>So, in 2008, we announced that we >would sunset Python 2 in 2015, and
>asked people to upgrade before then. >Some did, but many did not. So, in
2014, >we extended that sunset till 2020.

See also
https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/
https://pythonclock.org/

Il Dom 15 Nov 2020, 14:39 n952162  ha scritto:

> Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that intentional?
>
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[n952162]

This link in the wiki (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Python) is dead:

Python 2.7 has reached its end-of-life by 2019-12-31. See news item
.


On 11/15/20 2:39 PM, n952162 wrote:

Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that
intentional?

Re: [gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[Miles Malone]

Well yeah, after a *lot* of news items to that effect, and of course the
fact it's been deprecated for years anyway, it's gone.  If you need the
interpreter only for some scripts just select it in your world file, it'll
be around a wee while longer, but the entire ecosystem is kaput, dead,
gone, not coming back, so if your scripts are using any py2.7 libraries
you're probably hot out of luck. Just the interpreter will be around a
little bit longer because there's a few packages that for annoying reasons
still need it just as a build dependency.  Notably chromium

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 at 23:39, n952162  wrote:

> Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that intentional?
>
>
>
>

[gentoo-user] python2 really really really gone? Scripts all broken?

[n952162]

Suddenly, there's no python2 on my system, anywhere.  Is that intentional?