Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007, kashani wrote: Contrary to Eric Raymond's How to Ask Intelligent Questions it is actually very hard to ask good questions or even search about a subject you do not fully understand. That's an easy one. If you really don't know the subject or how to search for answers on it, then *just say so*. The poeple reading the post then know what the deal is, know up front they will have to take the poster through it step by step, and most important of all: they know that the poster is smart enough to say he doesn't know much. The worst possible question is: how long is a piece of string? You can avoid that so easily by saying I need to know how long a piece of string is, but I have no idea how to measure it and my knowledge of string is limited. Can someone walk me through the process please? If I read the first question, I get the distinct impression I'm talking to an idiot. The second question tells me I'm likely talking to an intelligent human, who just happens to be ignorant about something. alan -- Optimists say the glass is half full, Pessimists say the glass is half empty, Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be? Alan McKinnon alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za +27 82, double three seven, one nine three five -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
So there we have it. Experienced users don't want to play twenty questions and inexperienced users don't know what information is relevant to the problem. Sort of a Catch22, though this is one of the better lists in all respects. However to new users more info is almost always better than less, but do try to present it with some organization. I can't agree more - in many cases (both here and on IRC) when I ask a question, its because I REALLY DON'T have a clue what may be wrong, or even (in some cases) how to Google for an answer, or what information is relevant / necessary to post. I do not mind at all if rather than providing a lenghty / detailed explaination, someone points me at a FAQ / HOWTO / Wiki article. (unless im in the middle of a crisis outage) I prefer to learn, so I can do it myself the next time, and possibly help those who might have the problem at a later time. In general, this list has been VERY VERY helpful to me and I am quite thankful for it. (unlike the list where I had a user reply to a question that I should follow this procedure: cd / rm -rf * ) Thankfully I caught that one before I actually executed it. Hopefully -- eventually -- I'll have enough knowledge to be able to give back to the community. TIM Tim Holmes IT Manager / Webmaster / Teacher Medina Christian Academy A Higher Standard... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
cd / rm -rf * I tried that and rebooted and It launched Windows 3.1 What Gives (Tong firmly in cheek) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Tuesday 20 February 2007 19:26:21 Peter Lewis wrote: The arrogance of these responses is astounding. Does anyone believe in civility any more? [SNIP] Quite. I know very little about the topic which the OP was asking about, Gentoo solutions or otherwise. I was merely defending the guy's right to ask the question without being shot down for being lazy. I really don't see how suggesting that the OP might be lazy is so arrogant. If it's not actually the case then he can just say so. Thus far he hasn't replied to any of the replies in this thread anyway and the original post contained so little information that I gave up on deciphering it. Even if it's a language issue he can just say that... -- Bo Andresen pgpfjbttFIWlk.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
Actually I did Google extensively and looked at three packages which would require too much time to implement. The Vyatta was working in 10 min and now my lab's three Gentoo boxes are routed. Thanks again. -Original Message- From: Bo Ørsted Andresen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:54 AM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD? On Tuesday 20 February 2007 19:26:21 Peter Lewis wrote: The arrogance of these responses is astounding. Does anyone believe in civility any more? [SNIP] Quite. I know very little about the topic which the OP was asking about, Gentoo solutions or otherwise. I was merely defending the guy's right to ask the question without being shot down for being lazy. I really don't see how suggesting that the OP might be lazy is so arrogant. If it's not actually the case then he can just say so. Thus far he hasn't replied to any of the replies in this thread anyway and the original post contained so little information that I gave up on deciphering it. Even if it's a language issue he can just say that... -- Bo Andresen -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007 13:54, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: On Tuesday 20 February 2007 19:26:21 Peter Lewis wrote: The arrogance of these responses is astounding. Does anyone believe in civility any more? [SNIP] Quite. I know very little about the topic which the OP was asking about, Gentoo solutions or otherwise. I was merely defending the guy's right to ask the question without being shot down for being lazy. I really don't see how suggesting that the OP might be lazy is so arrogant. If it's not actually the case then he can just say so. Thus far he hasn't replied to any of the replies in this thread anyway and the original post contained so little information that I gave up on deciphering it. Even if it's a language issue he can just say that... I don't really think that it's arrogant, as you put it, just not that helpful. All I'm really saying is that it's good to try to maintain a friendly atmostphere where people feel like they can post without feeling like they might be acting too silly. Perhaps some people are lazy, perhaps some aren't, but like another poster said, you can just ignore the post if you don't like it. I'm a big fan of the there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers way of thinking. IMO this list should be as non-threatening for people-who-want-to-find-out-stuff-they-don't-know as possible. :-) Pete. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007, Mikie wrote: Actually I did Google extensively and looked at three packages which would require too much time to implement. The Vyatta was working in 10 min and now my lab's three Gentoo boxes are routed. And this entire bullshit thread would have been prevented had you done the normal thing on mailing lists: SUPPLY ALL REQUIRED AND RELEVANT INFORMATION. Here's what you said: Anyone out there know where I could DL an iso file with a simple route only linux? I just need routing and no other features. Thanks Here's an example of what you should have said: Hi all, I need a small simple distro to use for a router. It must run on a tiny machine insert hardware, RAM and disk specs here, I don't need iptables and conntrack functionality so ram is not a major issue. It will route for three hosts and I'll need it to scale to 6 easily. Google found me products A, B and C, and all seem OK but none strike me as being perfectly suited insert short reasons as to why here. Anyone here used these distros and can give comment? Or maybe recommend something I haven't listed already? thanks, your name See the difference? I can give you a real answer to the example, but can't really respond positively to the original (and it has nothing to do with grammar or language) alan p.s. this was not a flame -- Optimists say the glass is half full, Pessimists say the glass is half empty, Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be? Alan McKinnon alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za +27 82, double three seven, one nine three five -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:17:45 +, Peter Lewis wrote: I'm a big fan of the there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers way of thinking. A job providing technical support will soon cure you of that :) More seriously, there is such a thing as a bad question, and they significantly outnumber the good. Most questions provide too little information to get a really useful answer. GIGO applies here as much as anywhere else. -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 011: Window open - Do not look outside signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007 16:03, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:17:45 +, Peter Lewis wrote: I'm a big fan of the there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers way of thinking. A job providing technical support will soon cure you of that :) Ha ha, perhaps :-) More seriously, there is such a thing as a bad question, and they significantly outnumber the good. Most questions provide too little information to get a really useful answer. That may well be true, but it doesn't make the question invalid - just perhaps in the wrong forum. GIGO applies here as much as anywhere else. Too true. I wouldn't want to encourage the asking of questions! So, and I ask this as an honest question, is it generally accepted that the level of technical knowledge expected on this list is higher than, say, on the forums? Or the IRC channels? I'm relatively new to the Gentoo community, though not to online or computing communities generally, and am finding that there are a lot more unspoken norms or rules than I am used to (or perhaps the seasoned members are less forgiving of them being broken), which can be quite a disincentive to a newcomer. This is all just my opinion, of course, but I was just wondering. Pete. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007 16:36, I wrote: Too true. I wouldn't want to encourage the asking of questions! D'oh! That was supposed to be the asking of *stupid* questions... sorry -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On 21 February 2007 18:03, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:17:45 +, Peter Lewis wrote: I'm a big fan of the there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers way of thinking. A job providing technical support will soon cure you of that :) :-) I will never take up a technical support job because I know I will soon start to throw bricks through the phone line. For the same reason, I can not be a teacher - not a good one, anyway. More seriously, there is such a thing as a bad question, and they significantly outnumber the good. Most questions provide too little information to get a really useful answer. GIGO applies here as much as anywhere else. While I agree with you in general, I still think that most noise on most mailing lists is due to bad answers, not questions. Answers tend to get triggered by keywords without the answering folks reading the whole question. So I put up with the occasional bad question. ;-) Uwe -- A fast and easy generator of fractals for KDE: http://www.SysEx.com.na/iwy-1.0.tar.bz2 Proof of concept of a TSP solver for KDE: http://www.SysEx.com.na/epat-0.1.tar.bz2 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007 17:36:28 Peter Lewis wrote: GIGO applies here as much as anywhere else. Too true. I wouldn't want to encourage the asking of [stupid] questions! So, and I ask this as an honest question, is it generally accepted that the level of technical knowledge expected on this list is higher than, say, on the forums? Or the IRC channels? From the OPs, no. Any newcomers with zero knowledge are welcome to ask questions on this list. It's just a matter of trying to use provide useful info, trying to apply common sense, being responsive and trying to learn from the answers. I'm fairly sure most people on this list regard it as a very tolerant list. -- Bo Andresen pgp0avHm0AM3f.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007, Peter Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?': On Wednesday 21 February 2007 16:03, Neil Bothwick wrote: More seriously, there is such a thing as a bad question, and they significantly outnumber the good. Most questions provide too little information to get a really useful answer. That may well be true, but it doesn't make the question invalid - just perhaps in the wrong forum. It doesn't make the question invalid, at all. But, it does reduce the amount of responses you get AND limit their quality, no matter what medium is used. AFAIK, no one on IRC/email/forums is getting paid to do Gentoo support, so when answering a question is too much work, we can just skip it. If we have to guess to much of your setup or list a large number of possible problems (because we don't know which ones it isn't) or enter a longer dialog to get the information to solve the problem, you might just get skipped. While ESR is sometimes full of crap, he does have good guide on how to ask questions that will attract good answers: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html So, and I ask this as an honest question, is it generally accepted that the level of technical knowledge expected on this list is higher than, say, on the forums? Or the IRC channels? I tend to think that technically savvy users will migrate to email/IRC, but I don't have any foundation for that belief. That probably me just being elitist. I've always thought that web forums generally suck as a medium. I'm relatively new to the Gentoo community, though not to online or computing communities generally, and am finding that there are a lot more unspoken norms or rules than I am used to (or perhaps the seasoned members are less forgiving of them being broken), which can be quite a disincentive to a newcomer. Hrm, I can't say there are many more rules here than on my other mailing lists, but there are a number of informal rules that are NOT laid out in any FAQ or welcome message. It would be helpful for at least some people if we would let them know about our 5 pillars: Plain-Text Only, No Top-Posting, No Thread Hijacking, Attachments Only By Request (and consider private mail), and Trim Quoted Material. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ New GPG Key! Old key expires 2007-03-25. Upgrade NOW! pgpLduR6Cqciw.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
-Original Message- From: Peter Lewis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 February 2007 16:36 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD? So, and I ask this as an honest question, is it generally accepted that the level of technical knowledge expected on this list is higher than, say, on the forums? Or the IRC channels? I'm not sure exactly. IRC channels are good for instant help - mailing lists I feel yield more complete, verbose and useful results in an easier to store and search form. Grep and irc logs works to a point but emails are much easier IMO. As Bo said new users are welcome to ask questions - however it's much more painful to drag information out of people via Email compared to IRC. If someone comes into #gentoo and says NFS wont work you can ask them there and then for specs, setup, etc etc etc. On Email if someone says NFS wont work it's much more hassle to get all the necessary information to make informed suggestions. I'm relatively new to the Gentoo community, though not to online or computing communities generally, and am finding that there are a lot more unspoken norms or rules than I am used to (or perhaps the seasoned members are less forgiving of them being broken), which can be quite a disincentive to a newcomer. Everywhere has their own ground rules I guess - I like to think the obvious things are what we abide to here - proper spelling and grammar as far as is possible (I appreciate many are not English speakers mainly although some still manage to put my English to shame), posting relevant and useful information in the right quantity and formatted correctly, civil and polite conduct. The only semi-obscure policy is around top posting - I only participate in two areas on mailing lists, Gentoo and an IRC Security mailing list. The latter is low traffic. I don't have a great deal of mailing list experience so top vs bottom posting was a new one for me. People are often quick (and usually polite in doing so) to point out that top posting is not the way we do things here, if and when someone does it. David it's 6pm ... why am I still at work Nelson -- djn I do not represent anyone else in emails I send to this list. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007 18:52:49 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: It would be helpful for at least some people if we would let them know about our 5 pillars: [...] Attachments Only By Request (and consider private mail) Actually I disagree with that one. Sometimes when people think some failing build log or revdep-rebuild -p output is too long I would much rather they attached it as a compressed file than pasting it inline (and hence uncompressed) or leaving it out so we have to request it to get it.. -- Bo Andresen pgp4d3aGR4uy3.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
-Original Message- From: Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 February 2007 17:53 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD? Hrm, I can't say there are many more rules here than on my other mailing lists, but there are a number of informal rules that are NOT laid out in any FAQ or welcome message. It would be helpful for at least some people if we would let them know about our 5 pillars: Plain-Text Only, No Top-Posting, No Thread Hijacking, Attachments Only By Request (and consider private mail), and Trim Quoted Material. IMO it would be useful if all new mailing list subscribers were told these 5 pillars when signing up. Makes for a happier mailing list overall. -- djn I do not represent anyone else in emails I send to this list. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007 19:06:21 Nelson, David (ED, PARD) wrote: IMO it would be useful if all new mailing list subscribers were told these 5 pillars when signing up. Makes for a happier mailing list overall. Then file a bug. :) -- Bo Andresen pgpDrjXyeN7sD.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:03:20 +0200, Uwe Thiem wrote: More seriously, there is such a thing as a bad question, and they significantly outnumber the good. Most questions provide too little information to get a really useful answer. GIGO applies here as much as anywhere else. While I agree with you in general, I still think that most noise on most mailing lists is due to bad answers, not questions. Answers tend to get triggered by keywords without the answering folks reading the whole question. That's a fair point, but there are also a lot of bad answers because the questions required too much guesswork to answer. -- Neil Bothwick Out of sorts? Heck, I'm out of *most* algorithms! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:36:28 +, Peter Lewis wrote: More seriously, there is such a thing as a bad question, and they significantly outnumber the good. Most questions provide too little information to get a really useful answer. That may well be true, but it doesn't make the question invalid - just perhaps in the wrong forum It does make the question invalid if it provides insufficient information to permit a helpful answer. After all, the whole point of posting the question is to get the answer. -- Neil Bothwick Velilind's Laws of Experimentation: 1. If reproducibility may be a problem, conduct the test only once. 2. If a straight line fit is required, obtain only two data points. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wednesday 21 February 2007 18:06, Nelson, David (ED, PARD) wrote: From: Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 February 2007 17:53 It would be helpful for at least some people if we would let them know about our 5 pillars: Plain-Text Only, No Top-Posting, No Thread Hijacking, Attachments Only By Request (and consider private mail), and Trim Quoted Material. IMO it would be useful if all new mailing list subscribers were told these 5 pillars when signing up. Makes for a happier mailing list overall. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Well, I found this discussion quite helpful in the end - and sorry for hijacking the thread ;-) I hope I can be of some use on the list. Pete. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
Uwe Thiem wrote: While I agree with you in general, I still think that most noise on most mailing lists is due to bad answers, not questions. Answers tend to get triggered by keywords without the answering folks reading the whole question. So I put up with the occasional bad question. ;-) I've noticed in myself that I'll avoid answering questions that have been framed poorly because I know that it'll require four or five exchanges if we're lucky to get to the real problem. Additionally you might have to fix another three things along the way just to figure out what the original question is. Unfortunately I don't have the time to get in the guts of a problem, but I'm pretty good at diagnosing your issue if you have presented all the relevant facts. I imagine most of us professional admins are in the same boat. In summary if you want busy admins (well at least this one) who may have the experience to give better answers to look at your problem and respond do your research, run a few tests, do some searching, write a nice email, and frame a specific question. and because I'm avoiding a meeting, I point out how complciated the above really is. Contrary to Eric Raymond's How to Ask Intelligent Questions it is actually very hard to ask good questions or even search about a subject you do not fully understand. Try this little exercise: Your motorcycle has choppy acceleration at speeds under 45 mph. Think of twenty things that could cause that. Now rank them the in order of most likely to least likely. Now rank them in easiest to fix to hardest. Now rank them in easiest to test for to hardest. It is unlikely that you can think up more than five root causes unless you've owned a motorcycle for a year or so. Even with a few years of experience you will be hard pressed to rank them correctly in the most likely to least likely. If you're anywhere close on the last two, you are a motorcycle mechanic and I'll be over shortly to personally fix your computer while you look at my bike. So there we have it. Experienced users don't want to play twenty questions and inexperienced users don't know what information is relevant to the problem. Sort of a Catch22, though this is one of the better lists in all respects. However to new users more info is almost always better than less, but do try to present it with some organization. BTW after replacing the plugs, the plug wires, the coil, cleaning the points, replacing the points with solid state, greasing the throttle wires and mechanisms, new air filter, putting in a fuel filter, new fuel lines, rebuilding the petcock from the fuel tank, carb cleaning, carb adjusting, carb rebuilding with new float needles to match the changes in specific gravity of todays fuel vs fuel in the 70s (I was getting a bit desperate around this point), changing the oil (wet transmission), and countless drills in the parking lot to increase smoothness on the throttle it was pointed out that the chain had a bit too much slack and probably needed to be replaced. $28 and one half hour later the problem was fixed. kashani -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
Neil Bothwick wrote: It does make the question invalid if it provides insufficient information to permit a helpful answer. Not at all. It just means that the question needs expansion. After all, the whole point of posting the question is to get the answer. Very often, the questioner lacks the experience and knowledge to frame a question that you would deem valid. It's a very sad fact that Linux users generally have an appalling reputation for arrogance and a lack of helpfulness. :( I frequently see examples of this such as Google is your friend when the OP states that he can't get his Internet connection to work! :( The standard complaint about Linux users is that RTFM is the typical reply to a question. As it happens, I have never,ever asked a question here or anywhere else about Linux, Gentoo, whatever - I always find my own answers one way or another. However, not everyone has the time, skill or patience to do that. I'm glad to say that, generally speaking, Gentoo users do not sink quite that low - but we are heading that way. :( We need to take stock of what community really means and try to show a little more patience towards people who have just entered our community rather than alienating them. Just my thoughts, anyway. ;) Be lucky, Neil (another one) ;) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:14:20 +, Neil Walker wrote: It does make the question invalid if it provides insufficient information to permit a helpful answer. Not at all. It just means that the question needs expansion. Ah, so it's not invalid, just incomplete? Either way, it doesn't work. After all, the whole point of posting the question is to get the answer. Very often, the questioner lacks the experience and knowledge to frame a question that you would deem valid. This may be true in some cases, but not always. This is a peer-to-peer help forum, not some paid support line. If people want something for nothing, they should put in a little effort and not expect others to do everything for them. If you won't describe the symptoms fully, don't expect an accurate diagnosis. Granted, this is a lesson that has to be learned, but some people seem incapable of learning it. If that happens, they are the losers, those with the answers to the question they failed to ask usefully won't suffer for it. It's a very sad fact that Linux users generally have an appalling reputation for arrogance and a lack of helpfulness. I have yet to meet a significant number of these generally arrogant Linux users. How can you say that something so community-driven lacks helpfulness? I accept that many programmers respond poorly to certain types of question, but they are volunteers too and should be criticised for how they choose to use their own time, even if that includes not spending too much of it on tact. -- Neil Bothwick Windows Error #09: Game Over. Exiting Windows. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
James, On Tuesday 20 February 2007 15:46, James wrote: Peter Lewis prlewis at letterboxes.org writes: No, I didn't mean it as a criticism anyway. I just find that it helps to assume the best on mailing lists. It all helps for a happy community. Dear Pompous Jerks: Are you including me in that? If you read what I wrote, you will find that I was indeed advocating the use of the mailing list for people to ask for advice / experiences, rather than flaming someone for not using Google. I too am surprised by the lack of civility on this and other Gentoo mailing lists sometimes. This is something which can only put people off asking for help on them. The arrogance of these responses is astounding. Does anyone believe in civility any more? If google is so wonderful, and all of the aforementioned geniuses so bright, how did you guys miss the most glaring response of all? http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/gnap-userguide.xml Quite. I know very little about the topic which the OP was asking about, Gentoo solutions or otherwise. I was merely defending the guy's right to ask the question without being shot down for being lazy. After all, since he asked on a gentoo list, might we not all assume that he's inquiring about a gentoo_ish solution, without explicit statement thereof? You guys should be ashamed of your behavior. Just because somebody does not write a politically correct question, does not mean they don't need help. If you are not will to *HELP* then just ignore the email.. I could not agree more. Besides, Gentoo's greatest strength is the help the community provides to one another. Do you think this guy is now going to go to his friends and say hey checkout this firewall I found and set up with the help of the gentoo community? Like I said, I think this list could be a LOT friendlier. Just because someone is a Gentoo user does not mean that we can assume all sorts of knowledge and skills. They may well just be curious or like the thing. Pete. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 15:46 +, James wrote: Dear Pompous Jerks: [...] Does anyone believe in civility any more? My apologies. And thanks for setting a standard that we all may follow. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
James wrote: Besides, Gentoo's greatest strength is the help the community provides to one another. +1 I think the friendly, helpful attitude of the list is exactly as it should be - given that it's list aimed at providing help to all users. It would be ok to be a bit rougher on a 'gentoo-experts' or 'gentoo-grouches' list :-). Cheers Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Simple Linux Router on a live CD?
Mark Kirkwood wrote: given that it's list aimed at providing help to all users. Sorry - should read: given that it's *a* list aimed at providing help to all users. (I'm hoping for a grammar checker in Thunderbird) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
