[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
. ___ Ken Caldeira Carnegie Institution Dept of Global Ecology 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA kcalde...@ciw.edu; kcalde...@stanford.eduhttp:// dge.stanford.edu/DGE/CIWDGE/labs/caldeiralab +1 650 704 7212; fax: +1 650 462 5968 On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Eugene I. Gordon euggor...@comcast.netwrote: I point out that the idea of forming a formal Geoengineering Society and what its mission might be has been considerably discussed in these e-mails going back at least a year or more. It included a publication, an online newsletter, a meeting, a small operating staff and possibly some funding for research. The issue was and is where do we get sufficient money to support it? It is still THE issue. What would be the mission of a non profit Geoengineering foundation. Where would the support come from? Remember the Golden Rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. Eugene I. Gordon (908) 233 4677 euggor...@comcast.net www.germgardlighting.com -Original Message- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of global_frozing Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:59 AM To: geoengineering Subject: [geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation First of all, there is no any information center for geoengineering yet, besides this google group. I do not think that this group can work as such a center, because there is all mixed inside the one sequence of messages. The information should be filtered and structured. Some another system, like Google sites can be used to collaborate and to create and manage the really good web portal. This can be done for free or very cheap. This can be the first step for the foundation. No need to squabble about money to do this :-) On Oct 12, 11:56 am, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of global_frozing Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:59 AM To: geoengineering Subject: [geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation First of all, there is no any information center for geoengineering yet, besides this google group. I do not think that this group can work as such a center, because there is all mixed inside the one sequence of messages. The information should be filtered and structured. Some another system, like Google sites can be used to collaborate and to create and manage the really good web portal. This can be done for free or very cheap. This can be the first step for the foundation. No need to squabble about money to do this :-) On Oct 12, 11:56 am, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
Thanks for all your suggestions. I've been too busy writing a funding request to answer everybody. My concept for the foundation would be to fund research into methods of modifying the climate to mitigate the greenhouse effect. We would fund efforts in house, and we would also fund others doing meritorious research. Most of that research will be theoretical and some will be real world tests like the groups that fertilized the oceans with iron. We would also act as a clearinghouse to disseminate information. On Oct 24, 11:35 am, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@carnegie.stanford.edu wrote: I don't think money really is the issue. One way to start is by developing a good newsletter. If someone wanted to take the time to put out a quarterly (or monthly) newsletter, summarizing in a balanced way recent developments, with pointers to recently published literature, worthwhile popular press accounts, and so on, it would be good and helpful. The newsletter could take the form of a pdf and web site. (It could be more or less a monthly or quarterly distillation of the best of what appears on this email group.) I think the key is that it would be a true service effort and would be undermined if it turned into a soapbox for the newsletter editor to opine on everything. So, money is an issue, but doing this is mostly time -- and the key is to find somebody who has the time, ability, motivation and emotional balance necessary to undertake such a venture. It could even start as a monthly email to this group summarizing the most important things said here in the previous month, with pointers back to the original discussion. I think there are a growing number of people who would like to follow developments but do not have the time to wade through every email on this largely unedited email group. If well done, such an effort could be a real service to many people. ___ Ken Caldeira Carnegie Institution Dept of Global Ecology 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA kcalde...@ciw.edu; kcalde...@stanford.eduhttp://dge.stanford.edu/DGE/CIWDGE/labs/caldeiralab +1 650 704 7212; fax: +1 650 462 5968 On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Eugene I. Gordon euggor...@comcast.netwrote: I point out that the idea of forming a formal Geoengineering Society and what its mission might be has been considerably discussed in these e-mails going back at least a year or more. It included a publication, an online newsletter, a meeting, a small operating staff and possibly some funding for research. The issue was and is where do we get sufficient money to support it? It is still THE issue. What would be the mission of a non profit Geoengineering foundation. Where would the support come from? Remember the Golden Rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. Eugene I. Gordon (908) 233 4677 euggor...@comcast.net www.germgardlighting.com -Original Message- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of global_frozing Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:59 AM To: geoengineering Subject: [geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation First of all, there is no any information center for geoengineering yet, besides this google group. I do not think that this group can work as such a center, because there is all mixed inside the one sequence of messages. The information should be filtered and structured. Some another system, like Google sites can be used to collaborate and to create and manage the really good web portal. This can be done for free or very cheap. This can be the first step for the foundation. No need to squabble about money to do this :-) On Oct 12, 11:56 am, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
First of all, there is no any information center for geoengineering yet, besides this google group. I do not think that this group can work as such a center, because there is all mixed inside the one sequence of messages. The information should be filtered and structured. Some another system, like Google sites can be used to collaborate and to create and manage the really good web portal. This can be done for free or very cheap. This can be the first step for the foundation. No need to squabble about money to do this :-) On Oct 12, 11:56 am, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
I don't think money really is the issue. One way to start is by developing a good newsletter. If someone wanted to take the time to put out a quarterly (or monthly) newsletter, summarizing in a balanced way recent developments, with pointers to recently published literature, worthwhile popular press accounts, and so on, it would be good and helpful. The newsletter could take the form of a pdf and web site. (It could be more or less a monthly or quarterly distillation of the best of what appears on this email group.) I think the key is that it would be a true service effort and would be undermined if it turned into a soapbox for the newsletter editor to opine on everything. So, money is an issue, but doing this is mostly time -- and the key is to find somebody who has the time, ability, motivation and emotional balance necessary to undertake such a venture. It could even start as a monthly email to this group summarizing the most important things said here in the previous month, with pointers back to the original discussion. I think there are a growing number of people who would like to follow developments but do not have the time to wade through every email on this largely unedited email group. If well done, such an effort could be a real service to many people. ___ Ken Caldeira Carnegie Institution Dept of Global Ecology 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA kcalde...@ciw.edu; kcalde...@stanford.edu http://dge.stanford.edu/DGE/CIWDGE/labs/caldeiralab +1 650 704 7212; fax: +1 650 462 5968 On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Eugene I. Gordon euggor...@comcast.netwrote: I point out that the idea of forming a formal Geoengineering Society and what its mission might be has been considerably discussed in these e-mails going back at least a year or more. It included a publication, an online newsletter, a meeting, a small operating staff and possibly some funding for research. The issue was and is where do we get sufficient money to support it? It is still THE issue. What would be the mission of a non profit Geoengineering foundation. Where would the support come from? Remember the Golden Rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. Eugene I. Gordon (908) 233 4677 euggor...@comcast.net www.germgardlighting.com -Original Message- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of global_frozing Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:59 AM To: geoengineering Subject: [geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation First of all, there is no any information center for geoengineering yet, besides this google group. I do not think that this group can work as such a center, because there is all mixed inside the one sequence of messages. The information should be filtered and structured. Some another system, like Google sites can be used to collaborate and to create and manage the really good web portal. This can be done for free or very cheap. This can be the first step for the foundation. No need to squabble about money to do this :-) On Oct 12, 11:56 am, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
Neil, I've made no speculation about you, or about anyone. Indeed, I'm trying to stop speculation about anyone by anyone. I don't want to see Tom, a Nobel Laureat, drawn into this quagmire; and I don't want to see you pushed around. 'nuff said. David. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:50 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: GUIDELINES FOR POSTING TO THE GEOENGINEERING GOOGLEGROUP 1. ALL POSTS SHOULD BE RELEVANT TO INTENTIONAL INTERVENTION IN THE CLIMATE SYSTEM. 2. NO POST MAY MAKE AN AD HOMINEM ATTACK OR SPECULATE ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE'S MOTIVATION. 3. PLEASE SIGN YOUR POST WITH YOUR REAL NAME AND PREFERABLY ADDITIONAL CONTACT INFORMATION. This topic is RELEVANT TO INTENTIONAL INTERVENTION IN THE CLIMATE SYSTEM. It seems Schnare is speculating about my reasons for posting this topic. Thats a rule violation. His speculation is an ad hominem attack. He and Gordon have made other ad hominem attacks that are unrelated to the business at hand, Geo engineering solutions to a reverse runaway greenhouse effect. Shnare and Gordon both seem to have chip's on their shoulders. They would rather make ad hominem attacks than make contributions to the topic here or to further the goals of the Geo engineering group itself. I'm not going to speculate about what motivates them but they are obviously violating the rules. I will call you about this Ken. THIS WILL BE A LIGHTLY MODERATED EMAIL GROUP. Moderation will enforce these two guidelines and eliminate other abuses ( advertising, foul language, etc ) On Oct 12, 10:21 pm, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote: Gents: It is time to shut this thread down. It is not in keeping with the rules of the group. I appeal to Ken to apply his wisdom and admit we all are frustrated, but this is not a platform to allow that frustration to vent on to anyone. Anyone. Those are our rules. Ken wrote them and we all agree to them or we leave the group. So, let it be. David On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Tom Wigley wig...@ucar.edu wrote: The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. CLIMACTIC RESEARCH WOW. Tom. Ken Caldeira wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com mailto:kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net mailto:pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- David W. Schnare Center for Environmental Stewardship- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- David W. Schnare Center for Environmental Stewardship --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
Hi Tom, I think the geoengineering foundation is the most brilliant idea, I ever heard. The Law of Diminishing Returns already affects the over-long, dragged climate negotiations and IPCC processes. Anything renewing our human pool and initiative to tackle the climate is required. The marvellous works of Charles Keeling, Michael Mannix, oft-repeated loose impact with diminishing return on policy makers, much like any new dots on a temperature graph once the fever were charted in a patient by the UK's Meteorological Office. The overarching danger is that the Copenhagen Summit of climate science movement becomes today's Copenhagen Council, in fashion of the Medieval Conciliatory Movement that tried to tackle all the social and societal ills left over from the Medieval Scholasticism. Renaissance Movement came to relieve some of the bandages of the old orders of the dark ages, but the Renaissance was not enough to stop the soon explosion of the Reformation. In the past we had human systems we argued with our vexed interests. Today, the Dark Age of the scholasticism has been replaced by the age of fossil fuels, the Renaissance goes to right direction but is wholly insufficient as a move away from the tight-rope of the fossil fuels to age of clean renewables. Today's explosion, the Reformation to Come, is centred on the subject of all human vexed interests tightened against our inanimate planet Gaia that protests all the climatic forcing the dark age of fossil-fuelled mankind. Argument with an inanimate object no one living can win, the earth will survive it all, but perhaps without us if need be. This second reformation of our age, will make face of the Earth without us and much of anything else living it carries. The Councils of Stockholm (1973), Rio de Janeiro (1992), Kyoto, Bali, Copenhagen, it bears a striking similarity to the Medieval Conciliatory Movement trying to untangle the vexed interests of the Medieval Society that retarded its social progress. Outlook is really bad. The geoengineering foundation will stir the political pot from new directions and we need to do all we can to make it a viable reality and make the stupid masses of scholastics in throes of dark ages of fossil fuels to see its value to tackle the global warming this way. The nuclear energy, renewables, forestation, emission cuts, home insulation, re-use, recycling, contraception, public transport and geoengineering all have their place to get us over this and provide help where the climate science movement has got stuck much like the Medieval Conciliatory Movement, unable to accomplish its reformatory work for the betterment of society by the inflexible vexed system primed to their self-destruction. Whilst geoengineering offers direct benefits on its own, it is important to notice the value of our work and encouragement to people in the other fields that are generally supportive to our ideas. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, makes this idea even greater. With kind regards, Yours sincerely, Veli Albert Kallio, FRGS HH Plenipotentiary Scientific Ambassador of Global Environmental Parliament Group International Guru Nanak Peace Prize Nominee for 2008 (for sea level rise risks for global security economic stability) Frozen Isthmuses' Protection Campaign of the Arctic and North Atlantic Oceans Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:02:49 -0600 From: wig...@ucar.edu To: kcalde...@carnegie.stanford.edu CC: pro...@worldnet.att.net; geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: [geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. CLIMACTIC RESEARCH WOW. Tom. Ken Caldeira wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com mailto:kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net mailto:pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
Thanks you very much Mr. Kallio! On Oct 13, 9:09 am, Veli Albert Kallio albert_kal...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Tom, I think the geoengineering foundation is the most brilliant idea, I ever heard. The Law of Diminishing Returns already affects the over-long, dragged climate negotiations and IPCC processes. Anything renewing our human pool and initiative to tackle the climate is required. The marvellous works of Charles Keeling, Michael Mannix, oft-repeated loose impact with diminishing return on policy makers, much like any new dots on a temperature graph once the fever were charted in a patient by the UK's Meteorological Office. The overarching danger is that the Copenhagen Summit of climate science movement becomes today's Copenhagen Council, in fashion of the Medieval Conciliatory Movement that tried to tackle all the social and societal ills left over from the Medieval Scholasticism. Renaissance Movement came to relieve some of the bandages of the old orders of the dark ages, but the Renaissance was not enough to stop the soon explosion of the Reformation. In the past we had human systems we argued with our vexed interests. Today, the Dark Age of the scholasticism has been replaced by the age of fossil fuels, the Renaissance goes to right direction but is wholly insufficient as a move away from the tight-rope of the fossil fuels to age of clean renewables. Today's explosion, the Reformation to Come, is centred on the subject of all human vexed interests tightened against our inanimate planet Gaia that protests all the climatic forcing the dark age of fossil-fuelled mankind. Argument with an inanimate object no one living can win, the earth will survive it all, but perhaps without us if need be. This second reformation of our age, will make face of the Earth without us and much of anything else living it carries. The Councils of Stockholm (1973), Rio de Janeiro (1992), Kyoto, Bali, Copenhagen, it bears a striking similarity to the Medieval Conciliatory Movement trying to untangle the vexed interests of the Medieval Society that retarded its social progress. Outlook is really bad. The geoengineering foundation will stir the political pot from new directions and we need to do all we can to make it a viable reality and make the stupid masses of scholastics in throes of dark ages of fossil fuels to see its value to tackle the global warming this way. The nuclear energy, renewables, forestation, emission cuts, home insulation, re-use, recycling, contraception, public transport and geoengineering all have their place to get us over this and provide help where the climate science movement has got stuck much like the Medieval Conciliatory Movement, unable to accomplish its reformatory work for the betterment of society by the inflexible vexed system primed to their self-destruction. Whilst geoengineering offers direct benefits on its own, it is important to notice the value of our work and encouragement to people in the other fields that are generally supportive to our ideas. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, makes this idea even greater. With kind regards, Yours sincerely, Veli Albert Kallio, FRGS HH Plenipotentiary Scientific Ambassador of Global Environmental Parliament Group International Guru Nanak Peace Prize Nominee for 2008 (for sea level rise risks for global security economic stability) Frozen Isthmuses' Protection Campaign of the Arctic and North Atlantic Oceans Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:02:49 -0600 From: wig...@ucar.edu To: kcalde...@carnegie.stanford.edu CC: pro...@worldnet.att.net; geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: [geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. CLIMACTIC RESEARCH WOW. Tom. Ken Caldeira wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com mailto:kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
You have been speculating about my motives David. You seem to think I'm motivated by greed and nothing else. You misunderstood what I'm attempting here. I asked the group for advice on starting up a geoengineering foundation. I wasnt asking for money itself. I want information on what already existing foundations and sources of money to promote geo engineering research are known to them. Ken thinks there is nothing wrong with my topic and he is the moderator. The foundation I'm talking about promotes the goals of the geoengineering discussion group here. According to the rules I have a right to post this topic. Tom has no ojections to my topic either. Its news to me that Tom Wigley is Nobel Prize winner. Tom can you tell us about your Nobel Prize? Veli, you're on the Nobel Prize Committee? Thanks for your support. It's important to have a foundation focused on what this group is dedicated to discussing but with the goal of researching ways of modifying the climate if they are warranted. On Oct 13, 4:53 am, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote: Neil, I've made no speculation about you, or about anyone. Indeed, I'm trying to stop speculation about anyone by anyone. I don't want to see Tom, a Nobel Laureat, drawn into this quagmire; and I don't want to see you pushed around. 'nuff said. David. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:50 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: GUIDELINES FOR POSTING TO THE GEOENGINEERING GOOGLEGROUP 1. ALL POSTS SHOULD BE RELEVANT TO INTENTIONAL INTERVENTION IN THE CLIMATE SYSTEM. 2. NO POST MAY MAKE AN AD HOMINEM ATTACK OR SPECULATE ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE'S MOTIVATION. 3. PLEASE SIGN YOUR POST WITH YOUR REAL NAME AND PREFERABLY ADDITIONAL CONTACT INFORMATION. This topic is RELEVANT TO INTENTIONAL INTERVENTION IN THE CLIMATE SYSTEM. It seems Schnare is speculating about my reasons for posting this topic. Thats a rule violation. His speculation is an ad hominem attack. He and Gordon have made other ad hominem attacks that are unrelated to the business at hand, Geo engineering solutions to a reverse runaway greenhouse effect. Shnare and Gordon both seem to have chip's on their shoulders. They would rather make ad hominem attacks than make contributions to the topic here or to further the goals of the Geo engineering group itself. I'm not going to speculate about what motivates them but they are obviously violating the rules. I will call you about this Ken. THIS WILL BE A LIGHTLY MODERATED EMAIL GROUP. Moderation will enforce these two guidelines and eliminate other abuses ( advertising, foul language, etc ) On Oct 12, 10:21 pm, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote: Gents: It is time to shut this thread down. It is not in keeping with the rules of the group. I appeal to Ken to apply his wisdom and admit we all are frustrated, but this is not a platform to allow that frustration to vent on to anyone. Anyone. Those are our rules. Ken wrote them and we all agree to them or we leave the group. So, let it be. David On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Tom Wigley wig...@ucar.edu wrote: The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. CLIMACTIC RESEARCH WOW. Tom. Ken Caldeira wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com mailto:kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net mailto:pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- David W. Schnare Center for Environmental Stewardship- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- David W. Schnare Center for Environmental Stewardship- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
Please do not make references! I am a man of low profile and avoid publicity! My closest to these circles would be my Scanning Tunnelling Microscope Weber Bar Graviton Resonance Particle Detector which I submitted as a proposal to youth electronics planning competition and I became co-incidentally the co-inventor of this particle detector with Professor Gerd Binnig who did win Nobel Price for Physics in 1986. However, the third generation machines, LIGO Interferometry has taken over this method since the days I was involved in Physics. Please note that I was a nominee, not a winner of the 2008 Guru Nanak Peace Prize, and how could I, unless I nail iron-clad proofs that the ice sheets of the past never melted but slid when the ice age ended during the previous global warming episodes. If I could prove that Greenland's ice dome pushes through Melville Bay barrier, then I might be in line-up, but I don't want that: world with suddenly higher sea level wouldn't be good place to live. (I leave climate porn publicity for Greenpeace and other writers desparate to scare us.) But as per geoengineering, it is one of the most worthwhile pursuits as our world is what it is at the moment, with the Arctic losing its marine sea ice cap at fast rate. Many thanks. Kr, Albert Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:02:32 -0700 Subject: [geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation From: pro...@worldnet.att.net To: geoengineering@googlegroups.com You have been speculating about my motives David. You seem to think I'm motivated by greed and nothing else. You misunderstood what I'm attempting here. I asked the group for advice on starting up a geoengineering foundation. I wasnt asking for money itself. I want information on what already existing foundations and sources of money to promote geo engineering research are known to them. Ken thinks there is nothing wrong with my topic and he is the moderator. The foundation I'm talking about promotes the goals of the geoengineering discussion group here. According to the rules I have a right to post this topic. Tom has no ojections to my topic either. Its news to me that Tom Wigley is Nobel Prize winner. Tom can you tell us about your Nobel Prize? Veli, you're on the Nobel Prize Committee? Thanks for your support. It's important to have a foundation focused on what this group is dedicated to discussing but with the goal of researching ways of modifying the climate if they are warranted. On Oct 13, 4:53 am, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote: Neil, I've made no speculation about you, or about anyone. Indeed, I'm trying to stop speculation about anyone by anyone. I don't want to see Tom, a Nobel Laureat, drawn into this quagmire; and I don't want to see you pushed around. 'nuff said. David. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:50 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: GUIDELINES FOR POSTING TO THE GEOENGINEERING GOOGLEGROUP 1. ALL POSTS SHOULD BE RELEVANT TO INTENTIONAL INTERVENTION IN THE CLIMATE SYSTEM. 2. NO POST MAY MAKE AN AD HOMINEM ATTACK OR SPECULATE ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE'S MOTIVATION. 3. PLEASE SIGN YOUR POST WITH YOUR REAL NAME AND PREFERABLY ADDITIONAL CONTACT INFORMATION. This topic is RELEVANT TO INTENTIONAL INTERVENTION IN THE CLIMATE SYSTEM. It seems Schnare is speculating about my reasons for posting this topic. Thats a rule violation. His speculation is an ad hominem attack. He and Gordon have made other ad hominem attacks that are unrelated to the business at hand, Geo engineering solutions to a reverse runaway greenhouse effect. Shnare and Gordon both seem to have chip's on their shoulders. They would rather make ad hominem attacks than make contributions to the topic here or to further the goals of the Geo engineering group itself. I'm not going to speculate about what motivates them but they are obviously violating the rules. I will call you about this Ken. THIS WILL BE A LIGHTLY MODERATED EMAIL GROUP. Moderation will enforce these two guidelines and eliminate other abuses ( advertising, foul language, etc ) On Oct 12, 10:21 pm, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote: Gents: It is time to shut this thread down. It is not in keeping with the rules of the group. I appeal to Ken to apply his wisdom and admit we all are frustrated, but this is not a platform to allow that frustration to vent on to anyone. Anyone. Those are our rules. Ken wrote them and we all agree to them or we leave the group. So, let it be. David On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Tom Wigley wig...@ucar.edu wrote: The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. CLIMACTIC RESEARCH WOW. Tom. Ken Caldeira wrote: ... and I
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
I have to have money first. If you help me raise funding from the Carnegie foundation or other organizations I might give you funding for a project at your institute. Can you give me some start up funding? On Oct 12, 1:22 am, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@carnegie.stanford.edu wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
Please take this discussion private. It's too painful to read for the rest of us. d. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:55 AM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I have to have money first. If you help me raise funding from the Carnegie foundation or other organizations I might give you funding for a project at your institute. Can you give me some start up funding? On Oct 12, 1:22 am, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@carnegie.stanford.edu wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- David W. Schnare Center for Environmental Stewardship --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
Why do you say that David? I asking all group members to help me raise money for my foundation to promote the same causes as the geoengineering group. Unless we have reason to go private in our conversation, I want the whole group to participate. Can you explain what you mean its too painful for the rest of us? If you don't want to read it avoid our discussion. It's clearly labelled. On Oct 12, 12:24 pm, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote: Please take this discussion private. It's too painful to read for the rest of us. d. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:55 AM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I have to have money first. If you help me raise funding from the Carnegie foundation or other organizations I might give you funding for a project at your institute. Can you give me some start up funding? On Oct 12, 1:22 am, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@carnegie.stanford.edu wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- David W. Schnare Center for Environmental Stewardship- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
I think David was being gentle. For my taste 'disgusting' would have been a better descriptor. -Original Message- From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of VNBC INC Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:55 PM To: geoengineering Subject: [geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation Why do you say that David? I asking all group members to help me raise money for my foundation to promote the same causes as the geoengineering group. Unless we have reason to go private in our conversation, I want the whole group to participate. Can you explain what you mean its too painful for the rest of us? If you don't want to read it avoid our discussion. It's clearly labelled. On Oct 12, 12:24 pm, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote: Please take this discussion private. It's too painful to read for the rest of us. d. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:55 AM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I have to have money first. If you help me raise funding from the Carnegie foundation or other organizations I might give you funding for a project at your institute. Can you give me some start up funding? On Oct 12, 1:22 am, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@carnegie.stanford.edu wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- David W. Schnare Center for Environmental Stewardship- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. CLIMACTIC RESEARCH WOW. Tom. Ken Caldeira wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com mailto:kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net mailto:pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
GUIDELINES FOR POSTING TO THE GEOENGINEERING GOOGLEGROUP 1. ALL POSTS SHOULD BE RELEVANT TO INTENTIONAL INTERVENTION IN THE CLIMATE SYSTEM. 2. NO POST MAY MAKE AN AD HOMINEM ATTACK OR SPECULATE ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE'S MOTIVATION. 3. PLEASE SIGN YOUR POST WITH YOUR REAL NAME AND PREFERABLY ADDITIONAL CONTACT INFORMATION. This topic is RELEVANT TO INTENTIONAL INTERVENTION IN THE CLIMATE SYSTEM. It seems Schnare is speculating about my reasons for posting this topic. Thats a rule violation. His speculation is an ad hominem attack. He and Gordon have made other ad hominem attacks that are unrelated to the business at hand, Geo engineering solutions to a reverse runaway greenhouse effect. Shnare and Gordon both seem to have chip's on their shoulders. They would rather make ad hominem attacks than make contributions to the topic here or to further the goals of the Geo engineering group itself. I'm not going to speculate about what motivates them but they are obviously violating the rules. I will call you about this Ken. THIS WILL BE A LIGHTLY MODERATED EMAIL GROUP. Moderation will enforce these two guidelines and eliminate other abuses ( advertising, foul language, etc ) On Oct 12, 10:21 pm, David Schnare dwschn...@gmail.com wrote: Gents: It is time to shut this thread down. It is not in keeping with the rules of the group. I appeal to Ken to apply his wisdom and admit we all are frustrated, but this is not a platform to allow that frustration to vent on to anyone. Anyone. Those are our rules. Ken wrote them and we all agree to them or we leave the group. So, let it be. David On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Tom Wigley wig...@ucar.edu wrote: The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. CLIMACTIC RESEARCH WOW. Tom. Ken Caldeira wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com mailto:kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net mailto:pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- David W. Schnare Center for Environmental Stewardship- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[geo] Re: I am Planning A New Geoengineering Foundation
What do you mean Tom? That its an exciting topic? Can I get some serious discussion. I'm serious about discussing it. On Oct 12, 5:02 pm, Tom Wigley wig...@ucar.edu wrote: The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. CLIMACTIC RESEARCH WOW. Tom. Ken Caldeira wrote: ... and I was hoping I could ask you for money !! On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM, VNBC INC pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I saw your webpage. Would the Carnegie Foundation fund my foundation if it was dedicated to devising potential theoretical solutions then testing them? The emphasis will be on geo-engineering as opposed to climactic research and ecology. On Oct 11, 11:31 pm, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com mailto:kcalde...@gmail.com wrote: Where will the money come from ? On Oct 11, 7:56 pm, Neil Farbstein pro...@worldnet.att.net mailto:pro...@worldnet.att.net wrote: I'm thinking about starting up a nonprofit geoengineering foundation. We will study the problems of greenhouse warming and geoengineering type ways of slowing it down or reversing it and the circumstances under which this would be desirable. We will fund research and development of a variety of means to accomplish those goals. If you are interested contact Neil Farbstein at pro...@att.net mailto:pro...@att.net or at 516-921-5058- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
