Re: [Gimp-developer] An update on the menu search
Srihari wrote: > the above requires that GIMP is a tool that gets out of the way > ...your tool is the opposite of that... > ...you get right in the way. > > Very true. We din't have this perspective. > Using keyboard shortcuts indeed gives the 2 operations per second thats > required in production environments. > > However, I guess the video has been a little misleading... > The manner and frequency in which this tool is used, is up to the user. > i.e, the tool is meant to be complementary. It is not meant to be a > substitute for keyboard shortcuts. > So, a power user would be experiencing a smooth workflow (which GIMP clearly > provides) and this tool would help him when he's either stuck or trying to > find something. (i.e, help/explore/documentation) I think it is becoming really clear that that is what it is in this form: help/explore/documentation. I am fine with that, but the presentation of the system has to be one that is tied to the help system (see for instance apple's system-wide help system); not present it as some shortcut/command/quicksilver system. > "Almost forget that there is a menu-bar" > > This anyhow, remains true. a help/explore/documentation system would be all about the menubar, the toolbox and further elementary GIMP dialogs (layer stack, etc). > Talking about increasing productivity, we've had ideas of extending the > concept to offer a command execution. > Wrt > http://www.gimpusers.com/forums/gimp-developer/13823-fw-suggestion-for-new-versions-of-gimp#message63546 > that is. > This perhaps, would really mean "maximising productivity". yes I must admit that for daily use of plugins and other dialogs driven by 1–4 numbers (where the values have been completely mastered by the users we target) that can be a speedup. it really becomes a command line. but here are some first thoughts: - you need to design a command language, for this to work up to speed I would say that all essential commands need to be uniquely invokable with a 2 character code, the rest (any plugin) with a 3 character code. else mousing to the menu and fill-tab-fill-tab-fill-return is going to be quicker. (a secret of shortcuts is that remembering the shortcut, or the command code, takes time. this time is not registered by users, they will always deny it. mousing is boring and one is always fully aware of the time taken). - so you design this command language, and it would be good if the letter codes related to the menu item plugin names. there are two problems: --these names are localised, in 76 languages. this is not a unix shell (100% USA) so you need to be too. --any GIMP plugin in the world needs to fit in to this. - what about dialogs that have input that is not a textbox, like curves? there is still repetitive, rote work done with that. - you need the help/explore/documentation system to be totally out of the way of the command system. luckily this matches that the help/explore/documentation system needs the interaction and look of a help system, and the command system that of a fast command line. total separation recommended. my 2 cents, --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] What is this new p-l-a-n-n-e-d thing? Another buzzword for managers? :)
Prokoudine wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:58 AM, peter sikking wrote: >> I'd say roadmapping work even when there is only one developer, >> on a half-time basis. it is simply about what needs to be done >> for the next version. and just as important, that no >> non-trivial effort is spent on things that are not on the roadmap. > > Which is our plan for post-2.8 :) famous last words... --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] What is this new p-l-a-n-n-e-d thing? Another buzzword for managers? :)
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:58 AM, peter sikking wrote: > Alexandre wrote: > >> Planning with the current amount of active developers would be rather >> pointless. > > > I'd say roadmapping work even when there is only one developer, > on a half-time basis. it is simply about what needs to be done > for the next version. and just as important, that no > non-trivial effort is spent on things that are not on the roadmap. Which is our plan for post-2.8 :) Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Easy access for contributors
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:57 PM, grafxuser wrote: > But my posting was not about developers only. I wrote about people willing > to contribute at all, like bug triagers, testers, artists etc. > Do they all need to have administrator and developers skills to just start > GIMP, try out certain things and tell the results in Bugzilla? - I don't > think so. Usually you can't expect them to know what 'Build GIMP' means or > even do it. > > What I wanted to say is: if you want more people to contribute, make the > hurdle as low as possible. It's the difference between inviting people and > opening the door or keeping it shut. Wrong analogy, I'm afraid :) We don't do packaging. We'll be glad to work with people who want to maintain a PPA that isn't broken, up to date DMG's and so on. But we won't do packaging. We have no time for that. > graphicsall.org. They seem to have quite up-to-date builds of GIMP (although > I'm surprised to see a built of 2.7.5, while the latest developer version is > 2.7.4...). What's surprising about that? :) As soon as a release is tagged in Git, the code in Git gets a version bump, so if you run GIMP from Git master, it _will_ claim to be 2.7.5. Only now it probably already claims to be 2.7.6 or 2.8rc. > Also please keep in mind, that I'm honestly not here to nag, but to support > GIMP development. On that my only comment is: I wish you spent as much time contributing as you spent proposing :) But that's just my little personal attack :) Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] What is this new p-l-a-n-n-e-d thing? Another buzzword for managers? :)
Alexandre wrote: > Planning with the current amount of active developers would be rather > pointless. I'd say roadmapping work even when there is only one developer, on a half-time basis. it is simply about what needs to be done for the next version. and just as important, that no non-trivial effort is spent on things that are not on the roadmap. over the years I have seen GIMP being very good at ignoring efforts. enough for me to also say: to remain motivated I also pick my own topics that I want to work on (instead of just playing fireman for non-roadmapped development that keeps popping up). I think it has been pointed out in the last days here that this knack for ignoring roadmaps has not helped the release frequency of GIMP. --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Regular GIMP news; lack of developers
Am 12.03.2012 10:05, schrieb Alexandre Prokoudine: On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Anke Lange wrote: hello list, Hello Anke, If you mail to the list, please mail to the list, not privately ;-) Sorry about that, I didn't mean to and I'm not used to writing on mailinglists :( ... I never heard of gimp-werkstatt.de before, but now that I've had a look -- sure, I can add it. I guess you don't use a lot of german websides, so thank you very much for linking us now, that you've had a look at it. I believe all of you are doing a great job. I'm thankfull for that you are spending your little leaturetime on Gimp.To provide such brilliant programm. regards Anke -- Anke Lange An der Landwehr 25 49076 Osnabrück Telefon 0541 6004299 gimp-werkst...@gmx.de www.kreativ-workshops.net www.gimp-werkstatt.de www.kompozer-web.de ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
[Gimp-developer] Easy access for contributors
Hi, thanks for your replies. I'm afraid, I was misunterstood. The point I wanted to outline is not the question, whether a developer can setup his environment. Sure he can, if he/she already has enough knowledge about the underlying operating system and the IDE itself. And I already have seen at least one developer who didn't know much about the IDE and indeed he wasn't a big help. But my posting was not about developers only. I wrote about people willing to contribute at all, like bug triagers, testers, artists etc. Do they all need to have administrator and developers skills to just start GIMP, try out certain things and tell the results in Bugzilla? - I don't think so. Usually you can't expect them to know what 'Build GIMP' means or even do it. What I wanted to say is: if you want more people to contribute, make the hurdle as low as possible. It's the difference between inviting people and opening the door or keeping it shut. A pre-built VM is a proposal, which can potential contributors help to simply start working. Maybe I can start there, when I have more time and it's still an open task. Another way are the ready-to-use builds at graphicsall.org. They seem to have quite up-to-date builds of GIMP (although I'm surprised to see a built of 2.7.5, while the latest developer version is 2.7.4...). If you can recommend the work there, it was helpful to place a hyperlink there at your 'Links' page and the 'Get involved'-page. It's the simplest and could help a lot. Also please keep in mind, that I'm honestly not here to nag, but to support GIMP development. I'm not a native English speaker, so if there are doubts about my words, don't hesitate to kindly ask back. Best regards, grafxuser ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Regular GIMP news; lack of developers
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 2:01 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Partha Bagchi wrote: > >> I build Windows versions and don't expect gimp.org to link to my site. > > Actually, I think we should. You've been around for long enough to be > trusted. Even though I'd feel much more comfortable if we hosted all > unstable and experimental (rggjan, hey) builds on graphicall.org. > > Alexandre Prokoudine > http://libregraphicsworld.org > ___ > gimp-developer-list mailing list > gimp-developer-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list Thanks for your vote of confidence. :) My builds are hosted at grahicall.org and were put there kindly by one of the users of my builds. ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Regular GIMP news; lack of developers
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Anke Lange wrote: > hello list, Hello Anke, If you mail to the list, please mail to the list, not privately ;-) > I had a look at the linklist on gimp.org > > So I find it rather difficult to believe, that my website and community is > not registered on gimp.org, even though the gimp-werkstatt already exists > for 7 years and is doing a great job on teaching the use of gimp to absolute > beginners. I don't think gimpusers does exist for such a long time, so how > did it make it's way on that list? Since you're asking, gimpusers.de - has twice as many backlinks - the Alexa Rank is twice better both globally and in Germany - was extablished in 2006, only a year later after you - the guy behind gimpusers.de is active in the global community What was your question again? :) I never heard of gimp-werkstatt.de before, but now that I've had a look -- sure, I can add it. > I believe, that there will be a lot of other communities that think this > way. They can think all they like, but if they don't tell us they exist, nothing is going to happen. Even though the team is international, we don't speak every language in the world yet and thus we rely on feedback from local communities. Once again, it's all about taking action. You emailed us, and now your on my personal todo list. This is pretty much like bug reports. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
