[Gimp-developer] Windows builds using MSYS2

[Petteri Soininen]

Instructions to build Gimp 64bit with Windows/MSYS2/mingw64 seem quite 
outdated when trying to build 2.9.x.
I have struggled and learned much about the build process and probably 
could make an updated document "Howto"
I still struggle with Python support and I haven't been able to 
completely make python work as it seems to be a weird combination of 
64/32bit libraries and no good documentation anywhere and 
http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Hacking:Building/Windows just states that 
python support should be just disabled.
That is a 'no go' in my opinion as many plugins rely heavily on python 
and I'd like to make it easier for beginners, who use Windows, to 
compile builds and possibly contribute on testing and development.
I'm quite a n00b myself, but a fast learner. So if anyone could give me 
some pointers on how to make python plugins work with newer builds, I'd 
appreciate it very much and I'll try to make updated instructions for 
others to use.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Darktable plug-in in GIMP

[Carmelo DrRaw]

Hi Mika!

you might want to have a look to the PhotoFlow plug-in as well, which tries to 
provide the same sort of Photoshop/Lightroom integration in the GIMP world.
It is designed in such a way that you can re-process the original RAW file from 
the saved XCF by simply re-running the plug-in on the layer that was created by 
the initial RAW loading.

If you have access to youtube, here is a 15mn video that shows how all this 
works in practice: https://youtu.be/945OnK93C1g

>From the RAW processing point of view, PhotoFlow is almost as feature-rich as 
>Darktable, and has even some advantages like LMMSE demosaicing and inputs NR 
>for high-ISO images.

> On 30 Apr 2016, at 20:22, Mika Mantere  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the info, Tobias. I wasn't aware of the close nature of TIFFs
> and raw files in general, it makes more sense now.
> 
> I've used Darktable and GIMP (and Inkscape) for everything since moving on
> to linux side and couldn't be happier for finally having a plug-in
> seamlessly linking the two. It was really the last missing piece from my
> old Photoshop/Lightroom combo.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mika
> 
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Tobias Ellinghaus  wrote:
> 
>> Am Freitag, 29. April 2016, 17:08:21 schrieb Mika Mantere:
>>> The plug-in works great in importing NEF to GIMP, but now when I open
>> some
>>> TIF files in GIMP, it uses the plug-in in the same fashion as if I was
>>> opening raw files in GIMP, i.e. launching darktable and upon exiting
>>> exporting the file to GIMP as 32-bit EXR. This happens with some TIF
>> files
>>> but not with all TIF files. Is it supposed to do that?
>> 
>> No, it is not. The problem is that most raw formats are TIFF files with
>> some
>> extra data. For CR2 that's not a big problem, there is a way to recognize
>> them
>> (Canon was clever enough to have a unique magic for their files), other
>> formats
>> however can't be reliably distinguished from TIFFs. NEF is one of those. So
>> right now the code wrongly assumes that your TIFF is a NEF and sends it to
>> darktable. Until that is fixed you have to manually select the TIFF loader
>> in
>> the lower left hand corner of the open dialog.
>> 
>>> I do remember having trouble opening some TIF files in GIMP before, I
>> think
>>> some older TIF files with many Photoshop layers. This might actually work
>>> better through Darktable, anyway :-)
>> 
>> Happy coincidence. Maybe you can provide a sample file to bugzilla so
>> someone
>> can have a look at properly supporting them in GIMP.
>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mika
>> 
>> Tobias
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Darktable plug-in in GIMP

[Mika Mantere]

Thanks for the info, Tobias. I wasn't aware of the close nature of TIFFs
and raw files in general, it makes more sense now.

I've used Darktable and GIMP (and Inkscape) for everything since moving on
to linux side and couldn't be happier for finally having a plug-in
seamlessly linking the two. It was really the last missing piece from my
old Photoshop/Lightroom combo.

Thanks,
Mika

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Tobias Ellinghaus  wrote:

> Am Freitag, 29. April 2016, 17:08:21 schrieb Mika Mantere:
> > The plug-in works great in importing NEF to GIMP, but now when I open
> some
> > TIF files in GIMP, it uses the plug-in in the same fashion as if I was
> > opening raw files in GIMP, i.e. launching darktable and upon exiting
> > exporting the file to GIMP as 32-bit EXR. This happens with some TIF
> files
> > but not with all TIF files. Is it supposed to do that?
>
> No, it is not. The problem is that most raw formats are TIFF files with
> some
> extra data. For CR2 that's not a big problem, there is a way to recognize
> them
> (Canon was clever enough to have a unique magic for their files), other
> formats
> however can't be reliably distinguished from TIFFs. NEF is one of those. So
> right now the code wrongly assumes that your TIFF is a NEF and sends it to
> darktable. Until that is fixed you have to manually select the TIFF loader
> in
> the lower left hand corner of the open dialog.
>
> > I do remember having trouble opening some TIF files in GIMP before, I
> think
> > some older TIF files with many Photoshop layers. This might actually work
> > better through Darktable, anyway :-)
>
> Happy coincidence. Maybe you can provide a sample file to bugzilla so
> someone
> can have a look at properly supporting them in GIMP.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Mika
>
> Tobias
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>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Darktable plug-in in GIMP

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Samstag, 30. April 2016, 17:22:13 schrieb Carmelo DrRaw:
> > On 30 Apr 2016, at 16:58, Tobias Ellinghaus  wrote:
> > 
> > Am Samstag, 30. April 2016, 16:51:05 schrieb Carmelo DrRaw:
> >> This issue is easily handled by other RAW loading plug-ins by
> >> intercepting
> >> the input files with .tif or .tiff extension and running the normal GIMP
> >> loading procedure in such cases.
> > 
> > Sure, you can work around that, but it's not a proper fix, is it? So I
> > personally prefer to keep the behaviour broken to make someone fix it for
> > real.
> If UFraw was forced to implement this workaround already few years ago, so I
> guess it will still take quite some time until someone fixes that for good…

I guess it's more a matter of a few weeks than months.

> meanwhile you will be flooded by comments from unhappy users because this
> new DT plugin code already made it into PPAs that lots of people use.
> 
> My suggestion: implement the workaround as soon as possible, and then
> identify the person that should implement a proper fix into GIMP and try to
> convince her/him to do the job.

Sorry, no. I don't care if some people complain, that's what you get from 
running development versions. But just rejecting all files ending in ".tif" 
(and variations thereof) is wrong, there are cameras who call their raw files 
.tif. Old cameras, but still.

> > [...]
> > 
> >> Andrea
> > 
> > Tobias
> > 
> > [...]___
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> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List
> > archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Darktable plug-in in GIMP

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Samstag, 30. April 2016, 11:12:14 schrieb Elle Stone:
> On 04/30/2016 10:58 AM, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 30. April 2016, 16:51:05 schrieb Carmelo DrRaw:
> >> >This issue is easily handled by other RAW loading plug-ins by
> >> >intercepting
> >> >the input files with .tif or .tiff extension and running the normal GIMP
> >> >loading procedure in such cases.
> > 
> > Sure, you can work around that, but it's not a proper fix, is it? So I
> > personally prefer to keep the behaviour broken to make someone fix it for
> > real.
> Just from curiosity, who is the "someone" who should fix loading of raw
> files "for real"?

Mitch has been working on the magic part last week already, so it's currently 
work in progress.

> Is this something that needs to be fixed in GIMP?
> 
> Or is this something that needs to be fixed by the camera manufacturers?

Well, if we could convince camera manufacturers to fix their file formats that 
would be great, but 1) that won't happen and 2) GIMP still needs to recognize 
the billions of existing files out there.

> Elle

Tobias

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Darktable plug-in in GIMP

[Carmelo DrRaw]

> On 30 Apr 2016, at 16:58, Tobias Ellinghaus  wrote:
> 
> Am Samstag, 30. April 2016, 16:51:05 schrieb Carmelo DrRaw:
>> This issue is easily handled by other RAW loading plug-ins by intercepting
>> the input files with .tif or .tiff extension and running the normal GIMP
>> loading procedure in such cases.
> 
> Sure, you can work around that, but it's not a proper fix, is it? So I 
> personally prefer to keep the behaviour broken to make someone fix it for 
> real.

If UFraw was forced to implement this workaround already few years ago, so I 
guess it will still take quite some time until someone fixes that for good… 
meanwhile you will be flooded by comments from unhappy users because this new 
DT plugin code already made it into PPAs that lots of people use.

My suggestion: implement the workaround as soon as possible, and then identify 
the person that should implement a proper fix into GIMP and try to convince 
her/him to do the job.

> 
> [...]
> 
>> Andrea
> 
> Tobias
> 
> [...]___
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Darktable plug-in in GIMP

[Elle Stone]

On 04/30/2016 10:58 AM, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote:

Am Samstag, 30. April 2016, 16:51:05 schrieb Carmelo DrRaw:

>This issue is easily handled by other RAW loading plug-ins by intercepting
>the input files with .tif or .tiff extension and running the normal GIMP
>loading procedure in such cases.

Sure, you can work around that, but it's not a proper fix, is it? So I
personally prefer to keep the behaviour broken to make someone fix it for real.


Just from curiosity, who is the "someone" who should fix loading of raw 
files "for real"?


Is this something that needs to be fixed in GIMP?

Or is this something that needs to be fixed by the camera manufacturers?

Elle

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Darktable plug-in in GIMP

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Am Samstag, 30. April 2016, 16:51:05 schrieb Carmelo DrRaw:
> This issue is easily handled by other RAW loading plug-ins by intercepting
> the input files with .tif or .tiff extension and running the normal GIMP
> loading procedure in such cases.

Sure, you can work around that, but it's not a proper fix, is it? So I 
personally prefer to keep the behaviour broken to make someone fix it for real.

[...]

> Andrea

Tobias

[...]

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Darktable plug-in in GIMP

[Carmelo DrRaw]

This issue is easily handled by other RAW loading plug-ins by intercepting the 
input files with .tif or .tiff extension and running the normal GIMP loading 
procedure in such cases.

Here is an example from the PhotoFlow plug-in, which was originally derived 
from UFraw: 
https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow/blob/stable/src/plugin/pfgimp-load.cc#L213
 


Andrea

> On 30 Apr 2016, at 16:33, Tobias Ellinghaus  wrote:
> 
> Am Freitag, 29. April 2016, 17:08:21 schrieb Mika Mantere:
>> The plug-in works great in importing NEF to GIMP, but now when I open some
>> TIF files in GIMP, it uses the plug-in in the same fashion as if I was
>> opening raw files in GIMP, i.e. launching darktable and upon exiting
>> exporting the file to GIMP as 32-bit EXR. This happens with some TIF files
>> but not with all TIF files. Is it supposed to do that?
> 
> No, it is not. The problem is that most raw formats are TIFF files with some 
> extra data. For CR2 that's not a big problem, there is a way to recognize 
> them 
> (Canon was clever enough to have a unique magic for their files), other 
> formats 
> however can't be reliably distinguished from TIFFs. NEF is one of those. So 
> right now the code wrongly assumes that your TIFF is a NEF and sends it to 
> darktable. Until that is fixed you have to manually select the TIFF loader in 
> the lower left hand corner of the open dialog.
> 
>> I do remember having trouble opening some TIF files in GIMP before, I think
>> some older TIF files with many Photoshop layers. This might actually work
>> better through Darktable, anyway :-)
> 
> Happy coincidence. Maybe you can provide a sample file to bugzilla so someone 
> can have a look at properly supporting them in GIMP.
> 
>> Thanks,
>> Mika
> 
> Tobias___
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