Re: [Gimp-developer] Bug found: Unified transform and perspective tool fail silently when layer is hidden.

2015-12-10 Thread C R 
>
>
>> You can currently kinda get around this by setting the "Image opacity"
>> in the Tool options palate for unified transform tool to less than 100%.
>> Unfortunately, unless you also change the "Opacity" field in the layer
>> palate, the untransformed layer B is still in the way.
>>
>
> Thanks! for the tip.


Glad to help! I've been reading through your awesome writeups on GIMP's
color systems.
Love the "Sad little colorspace" part. Poor HSV! ;)


>
>
>> Thus my proposal:
>>
>> hide/remove the untransformed version of layer B while the user is
>> transforming it, and set the default "Image opacity" for the transform
>> tool to 50% by default.
>> This would get layer B out of the way, and let you see translucently a
>> bit of what is under the transformation preview as well (layer A).
>>
>
> Your proposal sounds good to me. I have found the "untransformed" copy of
> the layer being transformed to be an absolute nuisance since the first time
> I tried to use a transform tool.
>

Most of us seem to agree on this. The only person I've ever seen that spoke
up for the current way it's handled is GNUTux, on GIMPchat. But the
reasoning behind it (seeing a transform in relation to the original) I've
never heard of any use case where that was an actual benefit. It's always a
pain in the rump. It's just something I've learned to live with, but I'd be
dancing if it went away. It regularly wastes loads of time, every single
time.


Reading Gez's post the gimp-gui-list (
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-gui-list/2015-November/msg00049.html),
> that's also the same proposal?
>
>
Yes. Hehehe. You can see what career graphic designers think of the
implementation. It really, really needs to change, and if I had the coding
skills, I'd have done it long ago, even if it were just patching my own
version. I hate it that much! ;P

-C
___
gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Re: [Gimp-developer] Bug found: Unified transform and perspective tool fail silently when layer is hidden.

2015-12-09 Thread Elle Stone 

On 12/09/2015 01:05 AM, Gez wrote:

I raised this subject in the UI mailing list a few days ago. In my
opinion, A should be the solution.

We need to discuss the usefulness of having the original layer during
transforms. In my experience, most of the times it's a hurdle, blocking
the context for the transform.
But I'm aware that in some cases users would need to compare the
transformed layer vs. the original.
I don't think it's a good idea to rule out that situation, but I'm
convinced that it's an exception, and more frequently users want the
original layer hidden.


Is this what you mean by "original layer"? If a layer stack has two 
layers, A and B, with B as the upper layer, and if a 
transform/rotate/etc tool is used on B, the "original layer" is layer B 
*before* the tranform, and the transformed layer is what B would look 
like if the transform were made using the current settings.


If I understand what you mean by "original layer", I don't need to see 
the original layer B. What I really do need to see is layer A, meaning 
I'd like the option to set the opacity of the transformed layer B to 50% 
so I can compare the transformed layer B to layer A.


Unfortunately right now lowering the opacity of layer B on which the 
transform is being done doesn't seem to allow to see layer A through the 
*transformed* layer B.


Elle

___
gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Re: [Gimp-developer] Bug found: Unified transform and perspective tool fail silently when layer is hidden.

2015-12-09 Thread Elle Stone 

On 12/09/2015 12:33 PM, C R wrote:

Is this what you mean by "original layer"? If a layer stack has two
layers, A and B, with B as the upper layer, and if a
transform/rotate/etc tool is used on B, the "original layer" is
layer B *before* the tranform, and the transformed layer is what B
would look like if the transform were made using the current

settings.


Unfortunately right now lowering the opacity of layer B on which the
transform is being done doesn't seem to allow to see layer A through
the *transformed* layer B.


You can currently kinda get around this by setting the "Image opacity"
in the Tool options palate for unified transform tool to less than 100%.
Unfortunately, unless you also change the "Opacity" field in the layer
palate, the untransformed layer B is still in the way.


Thanks! for the tip.



Thus my proposal:

hide/remove the untransformed version of layer B while the user is
transforming it, and set the default "Image opacity" for the transform
tool to 50% by default.
This would get layer B out of the way, and let you see translucently a
bit of what is under the transformation preview as well (layer A).


Your proposal sounds good to me. I have found the "untransformed" copy 
of the layer being transformed to be an absolute nuisance since the 
first time I tried to use a transform tool.


Reading Gez's post the gimp-gui-list 
(https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-gui-list/2015-November/msg00049.html), 
that's also the same proposal?


Elle

___
gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Re: [Gimp-developer] Bug found: Unified transform and perspective tool fail silently when layer is hidden.

2015-12-09 Thread C R 
>
> Is this what you mean by "original layer"? If a layer stack has two
> layers, A and B, with B as the upper layer, and if a transform/rotate/etc
> tool is used on B, the "original layer" is layer B *before* the tranform,
> and the transformed layer is what B would look like if the transform were
> made using the current settings.
>

Yes, Elle, I think you got it. :)

If I understand what you mean by "original layer", I don't need to see the
> original layer B. What I really do need to see is layer A, meaning I'd like
> the option to set the opacity of the transformed layer B to 50% so I can
> compare the transformed layer B to layer A.
>
> Unfortunately right now lowering the opacity of layer B on which the
> transform is being done doesn't seem to allow to see layer A through the
> *transformed* layer B.


You can currently kinda get around this by setting the "Image opacity" in
the Tool options palate for unified transform tool to less than 100%.
Unfortunately, unless you also change the "Opacity" field in the layer
palate, the untransformed layer B is still in the way.

Thus my proposal:

hide/remove the untransformed version of layer B while the user is
transforming it, and set the default "Image opacity" for the transform tool
to 50% by default.
This would get layer B out of the way, and let you see translucently a bit
of what is under the transformation preview as well (layer A).

-C


>
>
> Elle
>
>
> ___
> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>
___
gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

[Gimp-developer] Bug found: Unified transform and perspective tool fail silently when layer is hidden.

2015-12-08 Thread C R 
In 2.8 it was possible to hide the layer you are transforming (with
perspective tool) to get the original out of the way during transform.

In 2.9 you can still hide the layer after transform has begun, but the
transform will fail unless the layer is unhidden before applying the
transform (it fails silently).

Steps to reproduce:
1. Make selection with rectangle (or other) selection tool.
2. Switch to Unified Transform Tool (or Perspective tool, which fails
in the same way)
3. Click to begin transform, then hide the layer (removes
untransformed original so you can see what you are doing).
4. Move control corners to perspective transform the layer as you
would normally.
5. Hit the Enter key or otherwise apply the transformation.

The transformation fails silently, and you must begin again.

The only solution is to remember to un-hide the layer before applying
the transformation.

Proposed solutions:
A. Make the original hide automatically, making it unnecessary to hide
the layer during transform.
B. Make sure the transformation is applied, regardless of the hidden
state of the layer.


I have also posted this information here:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759194


-C
___
gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Re: [Gimp-developer] Bug found: Unified transform and perspective tool fail silently when layer is hidden.

2015-12-08 Thread C R 
One solution that involves keeping the original untransformed are:
add checkbox "show original" in the transform tool menu.
I still recommend that is is turned off by default, along with the "grid",
which also gets in the way of seeing the transform.

What I mainly use the perspective transform tool for is applying a screen
graphic to a powered-off device to make it look like it's turned on, so I
need to see what is behind it. I also perform minor perspective adjustments
to objects in photo collages to make them look like they were sitting next
to eachother. I have never found keeping the original there to be useful in
any way, which is why I suggest it be hidden by default. I also suggest
(while I'm suggesting things ;P), that the transparency of the
transformation preview be taken down to 75% opacity by default (though
keeping in changeable is good). This provides an even greater visibility to
what's underneath, so you can ensure you are not covering up essential
elements of what is underneath.

tldr: For me, context visibility is everything with the transform tool. I
always transform in relation to other layers, or the border of the image,
never in relation to the original, so I definitely agree with Gez on that.

-C


-C

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 6:05 AM, Gez  wrote:

> El mar, 08-12-2015 a las 17:28 +, C R escribió:
> > In 2.8 it was possible to hide the layer you are transforming (with
> > perspective tool) to get the original out of the way during
> > transform.
> >
> > Proposed solutions:
> > A. Make the original hide automatically, making it unnecessary to
> > hide
> > the layer during transform.
> > B. Make sure the transformation is applied, regardless of the hidden
> > state of the layer.
>
> I raised this subject in the UI mailing list a few days ago. In my
> opinion, A should be the solution.
> B, applying a transform on a hidden layer, could be problematic. It's
> not a good idea to touch layers that are hidden, so preventing any tool
> from working on hidden layers is probably a good thing and all tools
> should be consistent doing so.
>
> We need to discuss the usefulness of having the original layer during
> transforms. In my experience, most of the times it's a hurdle, blocking
> the context for the transform.
> But I'm aware that in some cases users would need to compare the
> transformed layer vs. the original.
> I don't think it's a good idea to rule out that situation, but I'm
> convinced that it's an exception, and more frequently users want the
> original layer hidden.
>
> Does anyone have a different opinion on this one? I'm interested to
> know alternative workflows where that option is more useful than hiding
> the original layer.
>
> Gez.
> ___
> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>
___
gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Re: [Gimp-developer] Bug found: Unified transform and perspective tool fail silently when layer is hidden.

2015-12-08 Thread Gez 
El mar, 08-12-2015 a las 17:28 +, C R escribió:
> In 2.8 it was possible to hide the layer you are transforming (with
> perspective tool) to get the original out of the way during
> transform.
> 
> Proposed solutions:
> A. Make the original hide automatically, making it unnecessary to
> hide
> the layer during transform.
> B. Make sure the transformation is applied, regardless of the hidden
> state of the layer.

I raised this subject in the UI mailing list a few days ago. In my
opinion, A should be the solution.
B, applying a transform on a hidden layer, could be problematic. It's
not a good idea to touch layers that are hidden, so preventing any tool
from working on hidden layers is probably a good thing and all tools
should be consistent doing so.

We need to discuss the usefulness of having the original layer during
transforms. In my experience, most of the times it's a hurdle, blocking
the context for the transform.
But I'm aware that in some cases users would need to compare the
transformed layer vs. the original.
I don't think it's a good idea to rule out that situation, but I'm
convinced that it's an exception, and more frequently users want the
original layer hidden.

Does anyone have a different opinion on this one? I'm interested to
know alternative workflows where that option is more useful than hiding
the original layer.

Gez.
___
gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list