Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
Todd Zullinger writes: > I know the Fedora/EPEL spec file and what's in git.git have grown > apart a good bit, unfortunately. That's the cost of having a spec > file that is meant to work across a very wide array of RPM-based > systems, I guess. The Fedora/EPEL spec file is fairly specific to the > Fedora/EPEL build tools (mock is the primary build tool). Hmph. Once it gets to the point where our "spec" file is so out of sync with anybody's RPM based distribution in the real world, I suspect that removing and not shipping it in tree might be more helpful to the users. Or at least have a set of pointers, one for each major RPM based distribution, where to obtain spec file more tailored for their platform, at the beginning of it, or something. Have we already reached that point? Does anybody still use it? -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
Martin Langhoff wrote: # Create an el6 srpm $ fedpkg --dist el6 srpm here I just say "fedpkg --dist el6 mockbuild" and it makes the srpm and the binaries in mock. Automagic. Heh, and I thought I mentioning that, but since I never use it I didn't want to have to test it before including it and sending anyone down a rabbit hole. :) /var/lib/mock/epel-6-x86_64/result/. with mockbuild the packages appear in a subdir of where I'm working. Cool. I'll have to make more use of that now. Thanks Martin! -- ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~ I have to decide between two equally frightening options. If I wanted to do that, I'd vote. -- Duckman pgpqtDEW1t_0G.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Todd Zullinger wrote: > # Install fedpkg > $ yum install fedpkg fedpkg is amazing. I (ab)use it (and the associated build machinery) for lots of private package builds. > # Create an el6 srpm > $ fedpkg --dist el6 srpm here I just say "fedpkg --dist el6 mockbuild" and it makes the srpm and the binaries in mock. Automagic. > /var/lib/mock/epel-6-x86_64/result/. with mockbuild the packages appear in a subdir of where I'm working. m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
Erez Zilber wrote: Thanks. Just making sure - I need to do all of this on a fedora machine, not a RHEL/CentOS machine, right? Nope. An el6 box makes a fine mock host for el6 and (usually) fedora targets (though the mock package in EPEL doesn't always have config files for the very latest fedora release). The builder I use for my packages on el6 is an el6 host. -- ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~ Don't look for me in daylight where robots all assemble. You'll find me in my dark world, in my smoke-filled temple. pgpbG1cPqoleK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:07 PM, Todd Zullinger wrote: > Hi Erez, > > > Erez Zilber wrote: >> >> Thanks. I will try to use the rpm from Todd's build. BTW - if I want to >> create such a build on Fedora that will create el6 packages (e.g. >> git-1.8.5.3-2.el6.x86_64.rpm), what's the procedure? > > > Something like this (this is from memory): > > # Install fedpkg > $ yum install fedpkg Thanks. Just making sure - I need to do all of this on a fedora machine, not a RHEL/CentOS machine, right? Erez -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
Hi Erez, Erez Zilber wrote: Thanks. I will try to use the rpm from Todd's build. BTW - if I want to create such a build on Fedora that will create el6 packages (e.g. git-1.8.5.3-2.el6.x86_64.rpm), what's the procedure? Something like this (this is from memory): # Install fedpkg $ yum install fedpkg # Checkout the fedora git package (anonymously) $ fedpkg clone -a git && cd git Verify the git tarball. This is optional, but I would be remiss to suggest you skip it. We used to include the tarball .asc file in the fedora git repo, but that is no longer available for download. Instead, it must be copied and pasted from Google Code (I'd love to see the .asc files return, FWIW). # To verify the tarball, have fedpkg download the sources first -- if # you don't want to verify the tarball, you can skip this command and # the gpg/sha1sum commands that follow $ fedpkg sources # Copy and paste the gpg signature from # http://code.google.com/p/git-core/downloads/detail?name=git-1.8.5.3.tar.gz&can=2&q= # to a local file and use gpg to verify it, then sha1sum to check the # tarballs $ gpg --verify sha1.asc ... $ sha1sum -c sha1.asc # Create an el6 srpm $ fedpkg --dist el6 srpm # Build that package in mock, adding yourself or your build user to # the mock group first $ sudo useradd -a -G mock $USER $ mock -r epel-6-x86_64 git-1.8.5.3-2.el6.src.rpm The first time you build for a given release in mock will take longer than subsequent builds, because mock needs to download a lot of packages for the build root. These packages will be cached for future runs builds. In the end, you should end up with a set of packages and build logs under /var/lib/mock/epel-6-x86_64/result/. Hope this helps, -- ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~ Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. -- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" pgpjSoBWcZtsN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
Thanks. I will try to use the rpm from Todd's build. BTW - if I want to create such a build on Fedora that will create el6 packages (e.g. git-1.8.5.3-2.el6.x86_64.rpm), what's the procedure? Thanks, Erez On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Todd Zullinger wrote: > Hello, > > > Jonathan Nieder wrote: >> >> Erez Zilber wrote: >> >>> Writing perl.mak for Git Writing perl.mak for Git rename MakeMaker.tmp => >>> perl.mak: No such file or directory at >>> /usr/share/perl5/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm line 1024. make[3]: perl.mak: No such >>> file or directory make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory make[3]: *** >>> No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. >> >> >> Looks like MakeMaker is racing against itself. Alas, (on a fairly current >> Debian system, with perl 5.14.2) I'm not able to reproduce that. >> >> Instead, I get this: >> >> | $ make -j8 rpm [...] >> | make[2]: Leaving directory >> `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3/Documentation' | make[1]: Leaving >> directory `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' | + exit 0 | >> Executing(%install): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx | + umask 022 | + cd >> $HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD | + cd git-1.8.5.3 | + rm -rf >> $HOME/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/git-1.8.5.3-1.x86_64 | + make -j12 'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' >> \DESTDIR=$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/git-1.8.5.3-1.x86_64 \ >> ETC_GITCONFIG=/etc/gitconfig prefix=/usr \ mandir=/usr/share/man >> htmldir=/usr/share/doc/git-1.8.5.3 \ INSTALLDIRS=vendor install >> install-doc | make[1]: Entering directory `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' >> | make[1]: warning: -jN forced in submake: disabling jobserver mode. | >> make[1]: *** write jobserver: Bad file descriptor. Stop. | make[1]: *** >> Waiting for unfinished jobs | make[1]: *** write jobserver: Bad file >> descriptor. Stop. | error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx >> (%install) | | | RPM build errors: >> | Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx (%install) | make: *** >> [rpm] Error 1 >> >> Known problem? A build without -j8 gets further. > > > It seems like it's not a problem with el6 or git's Makefiles themselves. I > haven't used the spec file from git.git in ages, but I have tried to ensure > that the one we use in Fedora builds cleanly on el{5,6}. I use this myself > to keep an update git on el6, where Red Hat has left git at 1.7.1 since the > release of el6 however many years ago. :( > > Here's a build I ran just now using the latest Fedora SRPM, showing it > succeeds with make -j5: > > http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/3049/6473049/build.log > > The build task, with all of the resulting rpms and logs is here: > > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=6473049 > > (That will remain for a few days or so, at least. Scratch builds like this > aren't kept indefinitely.) > > This makes me think that there's something in the git.spec in git.git that > differs from what we use in Fedora/EPEL. I don't have time to dig into that > now, but perhaps someone with time and inclination can diff the spec files > and find the cause. > > I know the Fedora/EPEL spec file and what's in git.git have grown apart a > good bit, unfortunately. That's the cost of having a spec file that is > meant to work across a very wide array of RPM-based systems, I guess. The > Fedora/EPEL spec file is fairly specific to the Fedora/EPEL build tools > (mock is the primary build tool). > > Hope this helps a little in narrowing down the issue. I'm sorry I can't be > of more assistance at the moment. > > -- > ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp > ~~ > How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these swirling colors > distracting me? > -- Lisa Simpson > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
Hello, Jonathan Nieder wrote: Erez Zilber wrote: Writing perl.mak for Git Writing perl.mak for Git rename MakeMaker.tmp => perl.mak: No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm line 1024. make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory make[3]: *** No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. Looks like MakeMaker is racing against itself. Alas, (on a fairly current Debian system, with perl 5.14.2) I'm not able to reproduce that. Instead, I get this: | $ make -j8 rpm [...] | make[2]: Leaving directory `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3/Documentation' | make[1]: Leaving directory `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' | + exit 0 | Executing(%install): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx | + umask 022 | + cd $HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD | + cd git-1.8.5.3 | + rm -rf $HOME/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/git-1.8.5.3-1.x86_64 | + make -j12 'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' \ DESTDIR=$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/git-1.8.5.3-1.x86_64 \ ETC_GITCONFIG=/etc/gitconfig prefix=/usr \ mandir=/usr/share/man htmldir=/usr/share/doc/git-1.8.5.3 \ INSTALLDIRS=vendor install install-doc | make[1]: Entering directory `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' | make[1]: warning: -jN forced in submake: disabling jobserver mode. | make[1]: *** write jobserver: Bad file descriptor. Stop. | make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs | make[1]: *** write jobserver: Bad file descriptor. Stop. | error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx (%install) | | | RPM build errors: | Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx (%install) | make: *** [rpm] Error 1 Known problem? A build without -j8 gets further. It seems like it's not a problem with el6 or git's Makefiles themselves. I haven't used the spec file from git.git in ages, but I have tried to ensure that the one we use in Fedora builds cleanly on el{5,6}. I use this myself to keep an update git on el6, where Red Hat has left git at 1.7.1 since the release of el6 however many years ago. :( Here's a build I ran just now using the latest Fedora SRPM, showing it succeeds with make -j5: http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/3049/6473049/build.log The build task, with all of the resulting rpms and logs is here: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=6473049 (That will remain for a few days or so, at least. Scratch builds like this aren't kept indefinitely.) This makes me think that there's something in the git.spec in git.git that differs from what we use in Fedora/EPEL. I don't have time to dig into that now, but perhaps someone with time and inclination can diff the spec files and find the cause. I know the Fedora/EPEL spec file and what's in git.git have grown apart a good bit, unfortunately. That's the cost of having a spec file that is meant to work across a very wide array of RPM-based systems, I guess. The Fedora/EPEL spec file is fairly specific to the Fedora/EPEL build tools (mock is the primary build tool). Hope this helps a little in narrowing down the issue. I'm sorry I can't be of more assistance at the moment. -- ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~ How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these swirling colors distracting me? -- Lisa Simpson pgpOrbVEb8OdK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
Hi, Erez Zilber wrote: > Writing perl.mak for Git > Writing perl.mak for Git > rename MakeMaker.tmp => perl.mak: No such file or directory at > /usr/share/perl5/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm line 1024. > make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory > make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory > make[3]: *** No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. Looks like MakeMaker is racing against itself. Alas, (on a fairly current Debian system, with perl 5.14.2) I'm not able to reproduce that. Instead, I get this: | $ make -j8 rpm [...] | make[2]: Leaving directory `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3/Documentation' | make[1]: Leaving directory `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' | + exit 0 | Executing(%install): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx | + umask 022 | + cd $HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD | + cd git-1.8.5.3 | + rm -rf $HOME/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/git-1.8.5.3-1.x86_64 | + make -j12 'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' \ DESTDIR=$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/git-1.8.5.3-1.x86_64 \ ETC_GITCONFIG=/etc/gitconfig prefix=/usr \ mandir=/usr/share/man htmldir=/usr/share/doc/git-1.8.5.3 \ INSTALLDIRS=vendor install install-doc | make[1]: Entering directory `$HOME/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' | make[1]: warning: -jN forced in submake: disabling jobserver mode. | make[1]: *** write jobserver: Bad file descriptor. Stop. | make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs | make[1]: *** write jobserver: Bad file descriptor. Stop. | error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx (%install) | | | RPM build errors: | Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.WqNYnx (%install) | make: *** [rpm] Error 1 Known problem? A build without -j8 gets further. Thanks, Jonathan -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
I hope this is the right list for this question. Is this a broken feature/known issue? Is there a workaround for building the git rpm? Thanks, Erez On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Erez Zilber wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to build the git RPM (using tag v1.8.5.3) on a CentOS 6.3 > 64 bit machine. I was able to run 'make', but then I fail when running > 'make rpm'. Can anyone help with the following error? > > [erez.zilber@erez-lx:~/work/ > git]$ make rpm > sed -e 's/@@VERSION@@/1.8.5.3/g' < git.spec.in > git.spec+ > mv git.spec+ git.spec > GEN configure > ./git-archive --format=tar \ > --prefix=git-1.8.5.3/ HEAD^{tree} > git-1.8.5.3.tar > make[1]: Entering directory `/khome/erez.zilber/work/git/git-gui' > make[1]: Leaving directory `/khome/erez.zilber/work/git/git-gui' > tar rf git-1.8.5.3.tar \ > git-1.8.5.3/git.spec \ > git-1.8.5.3/configure \ > git-1.8.5.3/version \ > git-1.8.5.3/git-gui/version > gzip -f -9 git-1.8.5.3.tar > rpmbuild \ > --define "_source_filedigest_algorithm md5" \ > --define "_binary_filedigest_algorithm md5" \ > -ta git-1.8.5.3.tar.gz > Executing(%prep): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.GmHLGn > + umask 022 > + cd /khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD > + cd /khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD > + rm -rf git-1.8.5.3 > + /usr/bin/gzip -dc /khome/erez.zilber/work/git/git-1.8.5.3.tar.gz > + /bin/tar -xf - > + STATUS=0 > + '[' 0 -ne 0 ']' > + cd git-1.8.5.3 > + /bin/chmod -Rf a+rX,u+w,g-w,o-w . > + exit 0 > Executing(%build): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.aVAwKk > + umask 022 > + cd /khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD > + cd git-1.8.5.3 > + make -j8 'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' ETC_GITCONFIG=/etc/gitconfig prefix=/usr > mandir=/usr/share/man htmldir=/usr/share/doc/git-1.8.5.3 all doc > make[1]: Entering directory `/khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' > GIT_VERSION = 1.8.5.3 > make[1]: Leaving directory `/khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' > make[1]: Entering directory `/khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' > > ... > > Writing perl.mak for Git > Writing perl.mak for Git > rename MakeMaker.tmp => perl.mak: No such file or directory at > /usr/share/perl5/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm line 1024. > make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory > make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory > make[3]: *** No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. > make[2]: *** [instlibdir] Error 2 > make[1]: *** [git-difftool] Error 2 > make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs > make[3]: *** No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. > make[2]: *** [instlibdir] Error 2 > make[1]: *** [git-add--interactive] Error 2 > Writing perl.mak for Git > Writing perl.mak for Git > Writing perl.mak for Git > rename MakeMaker.tmp => perl.mak: No such file or directory at > /usr/share/perl5/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm line 1024. > make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory > make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory > make[3]: *** No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. > make[2]: *** [instlibdir] Error 2 > make[1]: *** [git-cvsexportcommit] Error 2 > make[3]: *** No rule to make target `instlibdir'. Stop. > make[2]: *** [instlibdir] Error 2 > make[1]: *** [git-cvsserver] Error 2 > Writing perl.mak for Git > mv: cannot stat `perl.mak': No such file or directory -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Running "make rpm" fails on a CentOS 6.3 machine
Hi, I'm trying to build the git RPM (using tag v1.8.5.3) on a CentOS 6.3 64 bit machine. I was able to run 'make', but then I fail when running 'make rpm'. Can anyone help with the following error? [erez.zilber@erez-lx:~/work/ git]$ make rpm sed -e 's/@@VERSION@@/1.8.5.3/g' < git.spec.in > git.spec+ mv git.spec+ git.spec GEN configure ./git-archive --format=tar \ --prefix=git-1.8.5.3/ HEAD^{tree} > git-1.8.5.3.tar make[1]: Entering directory `/khome/erez.zilber/work/git/git-gui' make[1]: Leaving directory `/khome/erez.zilber/work/git/git-gui' tar rf git-1.8.5.3.tar \ git-1.8.5.3/git.spec \ git-1.8.5.3/configure \ git-1.8.5.3/version \ git-1.8.5.3/git-gui/version gzip -f -9 git-1.8.5.3.tar rpmbuild \ --define "_source_filedigest_algorithm md5" \ --define "_binary_filedigest_algorithm md5" \ -ta git-1.8.5.3.tar.gz Executing(%prep): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.GmHLGn + umask 022 + cd /khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD + cd /khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD + rm -rf git-1.8.5.3 + /usr/bin/gzip -dc /khome/erez.zilber/work/git/git-1.8.5.3.tar.gz + /bin/tar -xf - + STATUS=0 + '[' 0 -ne 0 ']' + cd git-1.8.5.3 + /bin/chmod -Rf a+rX,u+w,g-w,o-w . + exit 0 Executing(%build): /bin/sh -e /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.aVAwKk + umask 022 + cd /khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD + cd git-1.8.5.3 + make -j8 'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' ETC_GITCONFIG=/etc/gitconfig prefix=/usr mandir=/usr/share/man htmldir=/usr/share/doc/git-1.8.5.3 all doc make[1]: Entering directory `/khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' GIT_VERSION = 1.8.5.3 make[1]: Leaving directory `/khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' make[1]: Entering directory `/khome/erez.zilber/rpmbuild/BUILD/git-1.8.5.3' ... Writing perl.mak for Git Writing perl.mak for Git rename MakeMaker.tmp => perl.mak: No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm line 1024. make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory make[3]: *** No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. make[2]: *** [instlibdir] Error 2 make[1]: *** [git-difftool] Error 2 make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs make[3]: *** No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. make[2]: *** [instlibdir] Error 2 make[1]: *** [git-add--interactive] Error 2 Writing perl.mak for Git Writing perl.mak for Git Writing perl.mak for Git rename MakeMaker.tmp => perl.mak: No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm line 1024. make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory make[3]: perl.mak: No such file or directory make[3]: *** No rule to make target `perl.mak'. Stop. make[2]: *** [instlibdir] Error 2 make[1]: *** [git-cvsexportcommit] Error 2 make[3]: *** No rule to make target `instlibdir'. Stop. make[2]: *** [instlibdir] Error 2 make[1]: *** [git-cvsserver] Error 2 Writing perl.mak for Git mv: cannot stat `perl.mak': No such file or directory -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html