Re[4]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hello Duncan, Sunday, April 29, 2007, 8:00:56 PM, you wrote: java/c# libs can't be used with current ghc, so 99% of Making it possible to use Haskell in mixed language projects with C++ and Java how ghc/mingw can be used with java? :) -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: Re[4]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 10:05 +0400, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Duncan, Sunday, April 29, 2007, 8:00:56 PM, you wrote: java/c# libs can't be used with current ghc, so 99% of Making it possible to use Haskell in mixed language projects with C++ and Java how ghc/mingw can be used with java? :) I expect it's quite tricky! :-) I'm not claiming it works or is easy, I was just commenting that making it possible or easier to use Haskell in larger mixed language projects is a good goal. Of course I've never tried it but I'd probably start by looking at the haskell-jvm-bridge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/jvm-bridge/) and seeing if that can be made to work with Sun Java on windows or perhaps GNU gcj works on mingw these days. Duncan ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re[6]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hello Duncan, Monday, April 30, 2007, 10:11:09 AM, you wrote: how ghc/mingw can be used with java? :) I expect it's quite tricky! :-) I'm not claiming it works or is easy, I was just commenting that making so, you agree that 99% of foreign-language libs that can be used with ghc/mingw are written either in C or C++? -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: Re[6]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 11:02 +0400, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Duncan, Monday, April 30, 2007, 10:11:09 AM, you wrote: how ghc/mingw can be used with java? :) I expect it's quite tricky! :-) I'm not claiming it works or is easy, I was just commenting that making so, you agree that 99% of foreign-language libs that can be used with ghc/mingw are written either in C or C++? But if you're using this to argue that we should ship a C++ compiler then it's just a circular argument. If we only ship a C compiler then 99% of foreign language libs that are easily usable with ghc/mingw are written in C. If we ship perl and python and whatever compilers then the foreign language libs that are easily usable would be in a wider range of languages. Remember that you don't even need a C compiler for ghc to be able to use C apis (or C apis exported from C++ libs). It's just not modular to bundle them all together. You can quite easily install a C, C++, Java or Pascal compiler and use that to build libs that export C apis and then use ghc (or any other Haskell impl) to use those apis. Duncan ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
RE: Re[2]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
| Making it possible to use Haskell in mixed language projects with C++ | and Java is obviously a good thing, but it's not really a scalable | solution to distribute them all together. We should look at how to | improve cabal+ghc to make it easier to use them as a component of a | larger system. One example of this would be not requiring that ghc is | used to do a final link, we should be able to make static libs and then | link them using ordinary gcc. Indeed. I don't think there is any reason in principle why one should not use GHC and C++ together, and there is certainly some customer demand for this to be smooth and easy. But it's not at the moment, and we lack a motivated colleague to help make it happen It needs someone who is familiar with C++ and its various strange naming, calling, and linking conventions; and who is willing to learn a bit about GHC's strange naming, calling, and linking conventions (with help from us). We are ready to spend time explaining the GHC end. But we really need someone to figure out what happens in the GHC/C++ link step, and make it all work smoothly. Please do volunteer! Simon ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re[2]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hello Albert, Sunday, April 29, 2007, 2:51:24 AM, you wrote: Is it just me who thinks this is a silly idea? Why should GHC include a C++ compiler? .NET literates, will benefit from the many libraries available in .NET. Can we also include a .NET runtime, a .NET documentation suite, all .NET you are lame. java/c# libs can't be used with current ghc, so 99% of libs we may need are written in c/c++. making porting these lubs as hard as possible and then heroically rewrite them in pure haskell is one way, good for PhD and other pseudo-scientific activity. building bridges to the world of existing software is the way to the real haskell usage in big projects -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: Re[2]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 10:38 +0400, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Albert, Sunday, April 29, 2007, 2:51:24 AM, you wrote: Is it just me who thinks this is a silly idea? Why should GHC include a C++ compiler? .NET literates, will benefit from the many libraries available in .NET. Can we also include a .NET runtime, a .NET documentation suite, all .NET you are lame. Hia Bulat, It's really much better to criticise ideas rather than people personally, though I do understand that Albert was making a joke at your expense. In that situation its much better to try and ignore it rather than flaming. We do want to keep the various Haskell mailing lists civil :-) java/c# libs can't be used with current ghc, so 99% of libs we may need are written in c/c++. making porting these lubs as hard as possible and then heroically rewrite them in pure haskell is one way, good for PhD and other pseudo-scientific activity. building bridges to the world of existing software is the way to the real haskell usage in big projects Making it possible to use Haskell in mixed language projects with C++ and Java is obviously a good thing, but it's not really a scalable solution to distribute them all together. We should look at how to improve cabal+ghc to make it easier to use them as a component of a larger system. One example of this would be not requiring that ghc is used to do a final link, we should be able to make static libs and then link them using ordinary gcc. Duncan ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
On Thu, 2007-04-26 at 17:07 +0400, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Ian, Thursday, April 26, 2007, 3:22:23 PM, you wrote: The (Interactive) Glasgow Haskell Compiler -- version 6.6.1 can you please include in win32 distro c++ compiler, as it was done before and as it requested by trac ticket http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1024 ? Is it just me who thinks this is a silly idea? Why should GHC include a C++ compiler? If you want a C++ compiler then install one. Otherwise where do we stop? why not just chuck in a pascal and java compiler while we're at it. The fact that ghc currently uses a C compiler on most platforms makes it a special case. I believe the plan for windows in future is to not include a C compiler at all and to always use the native code generator. So I don't think it makes sense to be adding more bits of gcc when we plan to remove it entirely in future. Duncan ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re[2]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hello Duncan, Saturday, April 28, 2007, 9:58:18 PM, you wrote: can you please include in win32 distro c++ compiler, as it was done before and as it requested by trac ticket http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1024 ? Is it just me who thinks this is a silly idea? Why should GHC include a if ghc developers think it's a bad idea they should remove this ticket i use ghc to develop haskell/c++ program. also, many libs today written in C++ and inclusion of c++ compiler will help to make more libraries available for ghc users alternative way may be inclusion of instructions how to add c++ compiler to ghc installation - it's not trivial because one need to know which gcc version should be used and which files copied -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: Re[2]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hi Is it just me who thinks this is a silly idea? Why should GHC include a alternative way may be inclusion of instructions how to add c++ compiler to ghc installation - it's not trivial because one need to know which gcc version should be used and which files copied Since I know that Bulat is the one always asking for a size reduction in the installer, why not have a minimal installer (without c++), and an extra-utils installer (with c++). Once GHC no longer requires C on Windows, we can move C compilation from minimal to extra. Of course, this requires installer hacking. Thanks Neil ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Duncan Coutts wrote: Is it just me who thinks this is a silly idea? Why should GHC include a C++ compiler? I'm afraid it's just you. Like that someone who has indicated interest in haskell-c++ integration, I am interested in the prospect of mixing haskell with .NET languages, and not to mention that everyone, not just .NET literates, will benefit from the many libraries available in .NET. Can we also include a .NET runtime, a .NET documentation suite, all .NET libraries, a C# compiler, a VB compiler, and an F# compiler in a future GHC package for Windows? In fact also the corresponding Mono suite in the Linux case? Yes, I understand that a bridge between GHC and .NET does not exist yet, but consider this. In the spirit of everyone is invited to help! whenever there is a demand and not yet a supply in the Haskell community, we should encourage everyone to help add this missing bridge, and what better way is there if not ship a complete .NET suite in GHC so all interested parties can hack or test right away! And since this requires hacking the source code of GHC, wouldn't it be nice if the binary tarball also included the source tree? And also darcs since we will be crazy pushing and pulling? I am not done yet. An ideal of .NET, at least for frontline developers if not for corporate Microsoft, is to be portable throughout Windows, Linux (via Mono for example), BSDs, MacOS, Solaris,... At present let's say just Windows and Linux in practice. Someone on Windows Vista without Linux will not be able to test out the bridge under construction on Linux. Someone on Linux without Windows Vista will not be able to test out the bridge under construction on Windows Vista. This is a sorry state of affair. To help developers and testers (and remember everyone is invited to help!), I have this bright idea: The GHC binary for Vista should include Linux, and the GHC binary for Linux should include Vista! (The GHC binary for MacOS should include both Linux and Vista!) The last suggestion raises licensing issues, I am aware. We can't give away Vista just like that. We have to distribute it legally. The GHC team should extend itself (e.g., hire me!) to set up a lightweight e-Commerce company, authorized by Microsoft to sell Vista licences and releases. Then it can legally distribute GHC+Vista packages. (Of course you will have to pay, and the payment will find its way to Microsoft.) Collaboration with MSDN is also possible. This opens up a whole new dimension where no one has gone before! Just look at IBM: We don't sell products, we sell services brought them great success, in fact brought them out of great crisis into great success. If the GHC team also goes we don't release compilers, we release complete platforms, the prospect is beyond imagination and its profoundness beyond expression. How should I file this to the bug track? Should I file one monolithic report containing the whole shebang above? Or should I re-factor it into a million piecemeals and file each individually? ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
= The (Interactive) Glasgow Haskell Compiler -- version 6.6.1 = The GHC Team is pleased to announce a new patchlevel release of GHC. This release contains a significant number of bugfixes relative to 6.6, so we recommend upgrading. Release notes are here: http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.6.1/html/users_guide/release-6-6-1.html How to get it ~ The easy way is to go to the web page, which should be self-explanatory: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ We supply binary builds in the native package format for many platforms, and the source distribution is available from the same place. Packages will appear as they are built - if the package for your system isn't available yet, please try again later. Background ~~ Haskell is a standard lazy functional programming language; the current language version is Haskell 98, agreed in December 1998 and revised December 2002. GHC is a state-of-the-art programming suite for Haskell. Included is an optimising compiler generating good code for a variety of platforms, together with an interactive system for convenient, quick development. The distribution includes space and time profiling facilities, a large collection of libraries, and support for various language extensions, including concurrency, exceptions, and foreign language interfaces (C, whatever). GHC is distributed under a BSD-style open source license. A wide variety of Haskell related resources (tutorials, libraries, specifications, documentation, compilers, interpreters, references, contact information, links to research groups) are available from the Haskell home page (see below). On-line GHC-related resources ~ Relevant URLs on the World-Wide Web: GHC home page http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ GHC developers' home page http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ Haskell home page http://www.haskell.org/ Supported Platforms ~~~ The list of platforms we support, and the people responsible for them, is here: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Contributors Ports to other platforms are possible with varying degrees of difficulty. The Building Guide describes how to go about porting to a new platform: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building Developers ~~ We welcome new contributors. Instructions on accessing our source code repository, and getting started with hacking on GHC, are available from the GHC's developer's site run by Trac: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ Mailing lists ~ We run mailing lists for GHC users and bug reports; to subscribe, use the web interfaces at http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-bugs There are several other haskell and ghc-related mailing lists on www.haskell.org; for the full list, see http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/ Some GHC developers hang out on #haskell on IRC, too: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/IRC_channel Please report bugs using our bug tracking system. Instructions on reporting bugs can be found here: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hello Ian, Thursday, April 26, 2007, 3:22:23 PM, you wrote: The (Interactive) Glasgow Haskell Compiler -- version 6.6.1 can you please include in win32 distro c++ compiler, as it was done before and as it requested by trac ticket http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1024 ? to be exact, the following files are required for C++ compilation, according to my experience: libstdc++.la libsupc++.la libstdc++.a libsupc++.a cc1plus.exe if it possible, please also issue 7zip-compressed version of 6.6.1 for people with traffic limits -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hello, Bulat, On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:07:47 +0900, Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can you please include in win32 distro c++ compiler, as it was done before and as it requested by trac ticket http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1024 ? This problem is already fixed. http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/cvs-ghc/2007-April/034976.html But current prep-bin-dist-mingw removes C++ header files by this part. rm -rf include/mingw/c++/ || echo c++/ not there I think we must remove this lines. But ... above lines' comment saids below. # g++-3/ subdir causes problems with installer tool (+ being a # troublesome character); leave out for now. #rm -rf include/mingw/g++-3/ || echo g++-3/ not there And I think this problem probably occurr on c++/ subdir, too. Because g++ is C++ compiler and there is no g++* directory in MinGW's sub-directory now. If Sigbjorn test with removing above part, and changing installer definition if that is needed, we can remove its part. Best Regards, -- shelarcy shelarcyhotmail.co.jp http://page.freett.com/shelarcy/ ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re[2]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hello shelarcy, Thursday, April 26, 2007, 6:54:40 PM, you wrote: Hello, Bulat, On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:07:47 +0900, Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can you please include in win32 distro c++ compiler, as it was done before and as it requested by trac ticket http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1024 ? This problem is already fixed. http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/cvs-ghc/2007-April/034976.html the problem i said can't be fixed by anyone except than *builder* of windows distro. the problem is lack of files of c++ compiler and libraries in distro, not the ghc behavior -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
Re: Re[2]: ANNOUNCE: GHC version 6.6.1
Hello Bulat, I think that builders/distributers use make binary-dist to make binary distribution normally. http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Using#BootstrappingGHC make binary-dist calls prep-bin-dist-mingw to make Windows friendly distribution now. http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/cvs-ghc/2007-April/034978.html And before this change, we use prep-bin-dist-mingw explicitly to make Windows friendly distro. So I sent follow previous message. Because leaving incorrect prep-bin-dist-mingw lack some files that is important C++ for compilation. http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/glasgow-haskell-bugs/2007-March/008738.html On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:29:26 +0900, Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:07:47 +0900, Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can you please include in win32 distro c++ compiler, as it was done before and as it requested by trac ticket http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1024 ? This problem is already fixed. http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/cvs-ghc/2007-April/034976.html the problem i said can't be fixed by anyone except than *builder* of windows distro. the problem is lack of files of c++ compiler and libraries in distro, not the ghc behavior OK, builders is important role to make windows distro. But from above reasons, I think prep-bin-dist-mingw (this change make binary-dist behavior, not to change ghc behavior) also important role to make windows distribution. Best Regards, -- shelarcy shelarcyhotmail.co.jp http://page.freett.com/shelarcy/ ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users
