Re: [GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[John Hearns via GLLUG]

I was taught Computer Science by Jennifer Haselgrove in Glasgow. Her first
lecture concerned talking to your cat, and as I remember telling your cat
the steps needed to make  a cup of tea. So you are wrong - it is cats, not
teddy bears.
Something surprising about Dr Haselgrove - she lectured in Comp Sci bit had
no degree in the subject. Why? Well when she was an undergrad no such field
of study existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenifer_Haselgrove


On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 10:43, Andrew Black via GLLUG <
gllug@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:

> Happy christmas everyone
>
> Some time ago someone suggested the idea of solving a tech problem by
> explaining something to you teddy. He is very stupid so it makes sure you
> explain it well. Sometimes the process of explaining makes you find the
> thing the clue you have missed.
> I cant put my finger on where it came from (does it matter). Google is
> taking me to all sorts of sites like "how to make teddies" and "why teddies
> are called ted".
>
> I find it SOMETIMES explaining helps, but sometimes can get you further
> into the misunderstanding that is causing the problem. Googling for a
> solution when you are looking at a bad solution...  Asking on Stackoverflow
> and like can be same:
>   "You dont want to do X, you want to do Y" "Yes in an ideal wolrd but if
> I do Y I will ahve a partial X and partial Y"
> Any thoughts...
>
> --
> Andrew Black
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Re: [GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[Andrew Black via GLLUG]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 11:25, Carles Pina i Estany via GLLUG <
gllug@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:

>
> Other people have already sent good links or comments. Just one more:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debug
> 
> Cheers,
>
>
That is it.  I have heard Teddy but seems the duck is more common.
You can talk to a duck here
https://rubberduckdebugging.com/cyberduck/

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Re: [GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[James Roberts via GLLUG]

In my long but limited experience (all experience is limited!) usually 
the problem isn't in explaining the problem, or in even solving the 
problem, it's in grasping what it *really* is in the first place. 
Especially so when it is explained to you by someone who doesn't 
understand the problem -- or solution -- domain... see most Gov. 
projects worldwide.


However explaining things to teddy bears, cats, and hat stands is an 
essential part of problem stress relief :) It does not work so well with 
dogs, they wag their tails whether it's explained well or badly :P


Merry Christmas/post-solstice [place festival here] & Feliz Fiestas/boas 
festas


MeJ


On 23/12/2020 11:24, Carles Pina i Estany via GLLUG wrote:


Hi,

On Dec/23/2020, Andrew Black via GLLUG wrote:


Some time ago someone suggested the idea of solving a tech problem by
explaining something to you teddy. He is very stupid so it makes sure you


[...]


explain it well. Sometimes the process of explaining makes you find the
thing the clue you have missed.
I cant put my finger on where it came from (does it matter). Google is
taking me to all sorts of sites like "how to make teddies" and "why teddies
are called ted".


Other people have already sent good links or comments. Just one more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

Cheers,



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Re: [GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[Carles Pina i Estany via GLLUG]

Hi,

On Dec/23/2020, Andrew Black via GLLUG wrote:

> Some time ago someone suggested the idea of solving a tech problem by
> explaining something to you teddy. He is very stupid so it makes sure you

[...]

> explain it well. Sometimes the process of explaining makes you find the
> thing the clue you have missed.
> I cant put my finger on where it came from (does it matter). Google is
> taking me to all sorts of sites like "how to make teddies" and "why teddies
> are called ted".

Other people have already sent good links or comments. Just one more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

Cheers,

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Re: [GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[John Winters via GLLUG]

On 23/12/2020 11:08, Alistair Mann via GLLUG wrote:

On 23/12/2020 10:42, Andrew Black via GLLUG wrote:

Happy christmas everyone

Some time ago someone suggested the idea of solving a tech problem by 
explaining something to you teddy. He is very stupid so it makes sure 
you explain it well. Sometimes the process of explaining makes you 
find the thing the clue you have missed.
I cant put my finger on where it came from (does it matter). Google is 
taking me to all sorts of sites like "how to make teddies" and "why 
teddies are called ted".


I've not heard of a teddy-bear based approach (and such an approach 
would surely be based) but what you describe sounds like a variation on 
the "How do you boil an egg" question that introduces programming.


In review - ask a programming student "How do you boil an egg?" and you 
might get the answer

1. Get a pan

[snip]

I think the Teddy Bear approach is for solving a slightly different 
problem (although I've always known it as explaining the problem to the 
hat stand).


It's not for introducing the basics of programming - it's for working 
out why your code doesn't do what it's meant to.


When you've stared at it for hours and hours and still can't see what's 
causing the problem you explain in detail to the hat stand why what's 
currently happening can't *possibly* happen, and then suddenly half way 
through your explanation the penny will drop.


I've often used it and it does work.

John

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Re: [GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[Alistair Mann via GLLUG]

On 23/12/2020 10:42, Andrew Black via GLLUG wrote:

Happy christmas everyone

Some time ago someone suggested the idea of solving a tech problem by 
explaining something to you teddy. He is very stupid so it makes sure 
you explain it well. Sometimes the process of explaining makes you find 
the thing the clue you have missed.
I cant put my finger on where it came from (does it matter). Google is 
taking me to all sorts of sites like "how to make teddies" and "why 
teddies are called ted".


I've not heard of a teddy-bear based approach (and such an approach 
would surely be based) but what you describe sounds like a variation on 
the "How do you boil an egg" question that introduces programming.


In review - ask a programming student "How do you boil an egg?" and you 
might get the answer

1. Get a pan
2. Put egg in pan
3. Put pan on stove
4. Boil it for three minutes.

The above is, of course, a /trick/ question. In my example above, no 
water was added; "It" could mean boil the pan, not water missing from 
the pan; and what kind of pan? Frying pan? The trick is *whatever* step 
is given can be broken down.


The trick question forces the student to examine his human answer for 
detail appropriate to a program. In the absence of a teacher, explaining 
your answer to a teddy-bear might do.


Happy chrimbo, all
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Re: [GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[Fred Youhanaie via GLLUG]

Hi Andrew

On 23/12/2020 10:42, Andrew Black via GLLUG wrote:

Happy christmas everyone

Some time ago someone suggested the idea of solving a tech problem by explaining something to you teddy. He is very stupid so it makes sure you explain it well. Sometimes the process of explaining 
makes you find the thing the clue you have missed.

I cant put my finger on where it came from (does it matter). Google is taking me to all sorts of 
sites like "how to make teddies" and "why teddies are called ted".


I tend to use wikipedia for such questions - 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_bear

For your Christmas homework you can try Martin's answer in the wikipedia search 
box ;-)



I find it SOMETIMES explaining helps, but sometimes can get you further into the misunderstanding that is causing the problem. Googling for a solution when you are looking at a bad solution...  Asking 
on Stackoverflow and like can be same:

   "You dont want to do X, you want to do Y" "Yes in an ideal wolrd but if I do Y I 
will ahve a partial X and partial Y"
Any thoughts...


What works for me in most cases is to rephrase the query, or even reverse the 
order of the keywords!

Have a good one
Fred

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Re: [GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[Martin A. Brooks via GLLUG]

On 2020-12-23 10:42, Andrew Black via GLLUG wrote:

I cant put my finger on where it came from (does it matter). Google is
taking me to all sorts of sites like "how to make teddies" and "why
teddies are called ted".


Rubber duck debugging.

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[GLLUG] Teddy bear principle

[Andrew Black via GLLUG]

Happy christmas everyone

Some time ago someone suggested the idea of solving a tech problem by
explaining something to you teddy. He is very stupid so it makes sure you
explain it well. Sometimes the process of explaining makes you find the
thing the clue you have missed.
I cant put my finger on where it came from (does it matter). Google is
taking me to all sorts of sites like "how to make teddies" and "why teddies
are called ted".

I find it SOMETIMES explaining helps, but sometimes can get you further
into the misunderstanding that is causing the problem. Googling for a
solution when you are looking at a bad solution...  Asking on Stackoverflow
and like can be same:
  "You dont want to do X, you want to do Y" "Yes in an ideal wolrd but if I
do Y I will ahve a partial X and partial Y"
Any thoughts...

-- 
Andrew Black
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