Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
Depending on how much OSM you want to do, you might be better off buying the car GPS based on its features and get a GPS data logger: That may be sensible whether OSM is hi or low. I like the control using a non-car GPS in car gives me, but that is considered abnormal - I have put my unit in rental cars next to the built in, and gotten them arguing. A lot of folks want default routing that the for-the-car units provide. Still might want to include in car GPS feature list being able to load OSM maps, rather than only vendor paid downloads. If so, ability to load MULTIPLE map files (different styles, sizes) and menu switch them is the one feature I with I had. I also add POI files that aren't fully free for specific merchants' locations and other events. So USB/uSD access/expandibility still matters, even if not for track files. Does it require MS Win version X to load the proprietary map loader program, or can usb/uSD be manipulated as a drive with copy/paste? Does gpsbabel handle any serial protocol required? I may add a V900 logger bluetooth GPS to my kit, as it is suposed to make OSM2Go on the Maemo platform more precise when in the field than the N900's built-in GPS, and will be an elegantly small track logger for my camera bag for geotagging, and will separate photo track storage from my magic map Navigation device's storage. It'd be by first non-Garmin, but it's a USB drive emulator with standard format trackfiles, so I should be ok. As to mounting, consider security. Visible GPS or having evidence of suction cup's slime rings on windshield say 'beak window to loot toys' in even parking lots you wouldn't consider seedy. -- Bill n1...@arrl.net bill.n1...@gmail.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On 04/26/2010 09:51 AM, bruce.lab...@autoliv.com wrote: Does anyone have direct experience with GPS units that work with OSM and are decent? Oh, and the GPS unit is recent enough that I could buy it new? Depending on how much OSM you want to do, you might be better off buying the car GPS based on its features and get a GPS data logger: http://www.buygpsnow.com/Columbus_V900_Bluetooth_GPS_Data_Logger.aspx to do your OSM work. Certainly spending more on an OSM-compatible unit wouldn't be of large benefit (and you always have to make sure it doesn't log the database-corrected coordinates but rather the sensed ones so you're not uploading the proprietary data). Credit to Russ Nelson on both counts from his OSM presentation at DLSLUG. -Bill -- Bill McGonigle, Owner BFC Computing, LLC http://bfccomputing.com/ Telephone: +1.603.448.4440 Email, IM, VOIP: b...@bfccomputing.com VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf Social networks: bill_mcgonigle/bill.mcgonigle ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
FOSS GPS systems (was: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?)
Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: The reason that I suggested the Touch Book, specifically for GPS use, is that I'd heard from other people that it seemed good for that; and there are quite a few GPS applications (of various types, suitable for various use-/user-cases) available on for use on GPS-enabled Linux systems like this. Quite few FOSS ones, even. Eek--of course I meant to write Quite a few FOSS ones--*not* quite few! There are quite *many* FOSS GPS apps, actually :) And, as I wrote before, the `FOSS' aspect of these `FOSS GPS' options is what really sells to me--since I've been able to implement features that are useful to me and that the proprietary GPS devices really *don't* have. I had expected that kind of perspective to be welcome here, of all places. ;) On that note, in case anyone *is* interested in FOSS GPS solutions but doesn't know where to the FOSS-GPS community, I should probably put a plug in for the foss-gps e-mail list http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS-GPS and for the Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: Route finding and estimating is useful if you're already on the road and want to make an unexpected change. Audible turn-by-turn directions are useful if you get confused on your way to a new-to-you location. See, these were the things that made me think `this whole GPS thing is stupid'--it's so tempting to use features like that, but I've invariably found that the `seat-of-the-pants technology' results in `knowing where I'm going without really having any idea where I *am* at any given point in time', which is just... perturbing. I've actually had fairly good results using GPS units belonging to friends. They were not perfect, but nothing is. I've made mistakes plotting routes manually, too. I do much prefer to plan my route ahead of time, but sometimes life doesn't work that way. I'd rather have the option. To me, it seems stupid to deliberately avoid a capability just because it does not work perfectly. In particular, real-time routefinding with turn-by-turn directions wins big in situations such the road I was planning on using is closed or I just missed my turn. Oh, route-finding not working properly was never my issue. The feature worked perfectly fine as far as I used it. And I *would* like to have the *option* to have the device re-plot a route for me too, myself--my issue is that that's the feature that I find least generally-useful, but it's by far the most prominent one in the UI-design on Garmins and TomToms that I've used--even to the point where it requires an active effort to figure out how to avoid using it. Yes, many people like it. Many people even think that `real-time routefinding with turn-by-turn directions' *is* the whole of what GPS means--I even used to be one of those people (hence the past-tense conjugation of made in made me think..., above). But, now I was delighted when I found applications that focused on just showing me a map with a `you are here' marker and indicators as to where I was in relation to where I wanted to be ... What were you using that couldn't do that? I've honestly never seen a GPS that did not have that capability. Indeed, that's all you had at first (beyond a simple lat/long readout). Routefinding and turn-by-turn directions are the newer features. It's not a question of whether the tool *can* do it, but a question of how much effort it takes to get the tool to do it. Basically: UI-design matters, and having a design focused on the right use-cases is an important part of UI-design. If I just want to convert an image to GIF format and make the background transparent, for example..., does it really make sense to use Photoshop, or should I just use gifweasel? I'm not avoiding *capabilities*, I'm avoiding lousy UIs that end up making my life more difficult 90% of the time because they've optimised for my 10% cases--just as I'd expect you to do, even if your 90:10 split is different than mine. If you want to go down the road where we talk about `stupid', it's stupid to choose a tool for which the 90+% designed use-case is actually *counter* to what I want even if it technically *can* be coerced into fitting the task at hand. If I only ever want dynamic route-finding 10% of the time or less, and I *never* want spoken directions (I'm not audibly-oriented, and my wife is dis-oriented by `disembodied' voices due to having grown-up in a deaf household--OK?), it's stupid for me to buy something in which the UI-design is focused on those features. I don't care if it's the 99% use-case, if it's not *my* 99% use-case. I'm colour-blind, too--I can't even see most people's favourite colour; are you going to give me a ration of crap for not buying the red one? :) And, oh yeah--as a more general response to the `more features == more better' sentiment: what ever happened to the part of the unix philosophy that says `do one thing, do it well, provide standardised interconnects'? :) I use my FreeRunner :) I have a phone provided by work, and it's not that. Plus Parse error. Are you trying to say: I have a phone provided by work, and it's not that [great as a GPS]. ... implying, by extension, that phones in general make lousy GPS units (because of hardware issues? software issues?)? Or are you trying to say: I [already] have a phone provided by work, and it's not that [one and I don't want to replace the one I that have with that one]. ... assuming that I'm recommending the FreeRunner as a phone? you can generally get a bigger screen if you're not locked into the phone form factor. Yes, which would be why I suggested...: If I were buying something right now, the Touch Book looks really neat for GPS/mapping/navigation: ... because it has a much larger display-and-interaction surface, which people (apparently not you ;)) might find that
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: People have different requirements around that, too: I was somewhat surprised, for example, to find that Nokia's N810 (GPS-enabled) tablet comes with a dashboard-mount... that *screws into* the dashboard. *cough* ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 9:34 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: People have different requirements around that, too: I was somewhat surprised, for example, to find that Nokia's N810 (GPS-enabled) tablet comes with a dashboard-mount... that *screws into* the dashboard. I'm not sure why they shipped the screw base portion of that. However, the portion that fits the N810 is removable from the base and the interface between the two is some standard that you can buy other bases for. We purchased a COTS, 3rd party suction cup base that attached to the N810 adapter and pitched the screw base. Worked wonderfully. We bought Droids a couple of weeks ago and now the N810 collects dust. Cheers! Ty -- Tyson D Sawyer A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. - Daniel Webster ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
We bought Droids a couple of weeks ago and now the N810 collects dust. Nice! I have always been a big Motorola fan, I will be getting a Droid in a few months when the contract contract on my VE20 runs out. Can hardly wait :-) -- Thanks, Joseph Smith Set-Top-Linux www.settoplinux.org ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] Luddite Teachings (was OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?)
teacher decided to force logs on us... by way of a slide rule. Back in the dark ages, my HS physics chemistry instructors had us do the formulae with sliderules for weeks before we got to bring in our fancy pricey scientific calculators (HP-25c is 1976). This was NOT to push logarithms on us but to push Scientific notation, ESTIMATION and dimensional analysis. Why? Since the exponent or decimal point is done in wetware while the slipstick tracks the mantissa, one must understand what you're doing to get the right answer. So when we started punching buttons, we had a better chance to get the right answer there too. A good sliderule still does rectangular to polar conversion, or proportions, quicker and simpler than any digital device ... -- Bill n1...@arrl.net bill.n1...@gmail.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Tyson Sawyer ty...@j3.org wrote: How do you find it works with Linux? Or do you? :) eTrex work great with gpsbabel. provided you have right cable. Garmin has made three different cables, two for RS232 serial and most recently USB. Gpsbabel is great. Newer, fancier units mount up as mass storage devices over USB and natively support GPX files. And microSD too. My personal favorite is Garmin 76csx, available at HRO Salem,NH or LLBean and lots of other places. www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap76csx/ I like moderately large color screen (smaller than tomtom but bigger than etrex or iii+) and the air/boat/hiker 'off road' range-and-azimuth mode for when I don't trust the street routing (usual), usb uSD, old Garmin round rigid automotive power connector, and tall enough to jam between by dash windscreen without a mount that tells thieves it must be nearby. I can load my own OSM made maps, which can be routable; I can add my own POI DB's separately from Map (made with gpsbabel); I can extract and load waypoints via GPX file; I can extract hi-precision track GPX files from the uSD card (and low/compressed tracks by USB). I can synchronize photos with my trackfile; though it's larger than my eTrex, it fit in a pocket and can move away from the vehicle with the camera, and last quite a while on 2 AA batteries. Some newer Garmins will let you switch/select from several loaded maps by menu, 76csx does not (at least not at my firmware level and think, not.) Instead I have multiple maps on multiple uSDs in a media wallet in my pocket, should travel out of my current map. Works for me. -- Bill n1...@arrl.net bill.n1...@gmail.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.comwrote: I've actually had fairly good results using GPS units belonging to friends. They were not perfect, but nothing is. I've made mistakes plotting routes manually, too. I do much prefer to plan my route ahead of time, but sometimes life doesn't work that way. I'd rather have the option. To me, it seems stupid to deliberately avoid a capability just because it does not work perfectly. In particular, real-time routefinding with turn-by-turn directions wins big in situations such the road I was planning on using is closed or I just missed my turn. It's not always feasible to stop and consult the map. (In Boston, it can be downright suicidal.) And even in situations where I can plan my route, the ability to listen for real-time updates, rather than peering around at street signs (instead of the street ahead of me) makes for safer driving. I get lost walking back from my mailbox :-( It seems to be age related too. I've had my GPS for 3 years now. I've learned what it means when it plots a route. When I don't agree with it, I ignore it (which I think is the problem most people have with them). If I want to see the whole route ahead of time, I use google maps, because a GPS isn't good for that. With a GPS, you will always get there. It's hard to get lost because it knows where it is. A map doesn't know where it is. If the directions you brought are wrong or you stray from them, you are not directed back on the right course. If I miss a turn, the GPS will guide me back. A GPS gives an estimated time of arrival. I like knowing how late I'll be to work every day. I can use it to find a restaurant, home garden store, gas nearby or near my destination. I've double checked my speedometer readings too (GPS *do* have speed errors. I saw it fluctuate my position when I was parked before) A GPS doesn't depend on a cell tower. I've compared an iPhone to a GPS, side by side. If the signal is good, the iPhone is ok, but the interface isn't as good. It really comes down to what you prefer. I have my GPS on all the time, even when I don't need directions. You might use yours differently. Gee, this is kinda like the iPad discussions. I need it, You can do it with a netbook for less, books are better then eReaders. FWIW, I have a garmin. I used a newer TomTom side by side and prefered the familiar. Try them out in the store. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name wrote: ... books are better then eReaders. Stone tablets are obviously superior. ;-) FWIW, I have a garmin. How do you find it works with Linux? Or do you? :) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
[semi-OT] OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
I have my GPS on all the time, even when I don't need directions. I just have a humble little unhacked Mio C320 but was pleased to discover an unexpected benefit while driving some twisty Appalachian mountain roads at night in the fog. I usually have it rigged HUD-style (more or less the view out-the-windshield) and it was a big help as we felt our way along to know that, say, a gentle right right turn was coming up followed by a *sharp* left, etc. So it was not only useful telling us where we were in absolute terms but also for, um, terrain avoidance... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name wrote: ... books are better then eReaders. Stone tablets are obviously superior. ;-) FWIW, I have a garmin. How do you find it works with Linux? Or do you? :) Heh. I just want a GPS. I hooked it up to a Windows PC when I got it 3 years ago to get firmware and haven't since. I wish I could tell you I've done more. I've wanted to, a bit. Heck, I want new maps with new POI that doesn't point me at restaurants that went out or moved 3 years ago. I shall render my geek hacking card for leaving it alone :-) I'm too busy hacking the garden right now to hack the GPS or my SmartQ7 or my 1-wire controls or learn Ardrino or all the other things I want to do :-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Michael ODonnell michael.odonn...@comcast.net wrote: I have my GPS on all the time, even when I don't need directions. I just have a humble little unhacked Mio C320 but was pleased to discover an unexpected benefit while driving some twisty Appalachian mountain roads at night in the fog. I usually have it rigged HUD-style (more or less the view out-the-windshield) and it was a big help as we felt our way along to know that, say, a gentle right right turn was coming up followed by a *sharp* left, etc. So it was not only useful telling us where we were in absolute terms but also for, um, terrain avoidance... When I used to ride Enduros and Turkey Runs (http://www.netra.org), you had a route sheet on your handlebars. It was a turn by turn description of the route with mileage. You'd advance it line by line as you rode. Your odometer needed to be resettable in tenths to recalibrate. Imagine doing that on a motocross track. The enduros also had times for a 24 mph average to be on your minute. You needed a watch or two for that. Eventually they came up with enduro clocks in the 80s to display your minute and milage that could be set forward or back as you lost time. Now you're riding a motocross track, scrolling the chart and doing time arithmetic all at the same time. Some checkpoints calculated to the second as timebreakers so riders would ride 15 seconds hot so they had some cushion. Nowadays, they might also have downloadable GPS routes to put on your bike's GPS. Or not. Sometimes they also collect the routesheets after to keep people from riding after the event. They might only have permission to ride on someone's property on event day. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [semi-OT] OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
I have my GPS on all the time, even when I don't need directions. I just have a humble little unhacked Mio C320 but was pleased to discover an unexpected benefit while driving some twisty Appalachian mountain roads at night in the fog. I usually have it rigged HUD-style (more or less the view out-the-windshield) and it was a big help as we felt our way along to know that, say, a gentle right right turn was coming up followed by a *sharp* left, etc. So it was not only useful telling us where we were in absolute terms but also for, um, terrain avoidance... Many years ago I was in Germany at CEBIT, the worlds largest computer and telephony show. CEBIT is so large, and the town it is in so small, that you typically have to stay many miles away from the show to get any room at all. A friend rented a van with a (then) new feature called GPS, and he even had one that talked. It was a female voice, but probably came from a retired high officer in the German army, because you could tell she was used to being obeyed. And of course the voice was in German, so although I was there and experienced this, I can only really relate what the driver told me was happening One day we were driving along and she told us to turn right. We looked to the right and all that existed was plowed fields...no road at all, not even a dirt one. We continued to drive straight along the road as the voice became more and more exasperated, finally sort of yelling: Biegen Sie rechts ab! BIEGEN SIE RECHTS AB! (Turn right! TURN RIGHT!) We continued along the road until the unit finally gave up, calculated another route and returned to its former quieter, but still firm, instructions. The next time I went to Germany the same unit apparently had been reprogrammed with a calmer, clearer voiceand more complete maps. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On 04/28/2010 08:39 AM, Tom Buskey wrote: I get lost walking back from my mailbox :-( It seems to be age related too. I've had my GPS for 3 years now. I've learned what it means when it plots a route. When I don't agree with it, I ignore it (which I think is the problem most people have with them). If I want to see the whole route ahead of time, I use google maps, because a GPS isn't good for that. With a GPS, you will always get there. It's hard to get lost because it knows where it is. A map doesn't know where it is. If the directions you brought are wrong or you stray from them, you are not directed back on the right course. If I miss a turn, the GPS will guide me back. A GPS gives an estimated time of arrival. I like knowing how late I'll be to work every day. I can use it to find a restaurant, home garden store, gas nearby or near my destination. I've double checked my speedometer readings too (GPS *do* have speed errors. I saw it fluctuate my position when I was parked before) A GPS doesn't depend on a cell tower. I've compared an iPhone to a GPS, side by side. If the signal is good, the iPhone is ok, but the interface isn't as good. As an ex military pilot, I learned how to read a map and find out where I am on the map. In Viet Nam we rarely had any nav aids, and had to find LZs given map coordinates and colored smoke. One of the most important things I was taught by my first flight instructor, David W. Ferry, was to look out of the cockpit. It is your ass in the aircraft, not the air traffic controller. In flight school I was vectored into the ground twice, and in Viet Nam, I was vectored into a mountain on one occasion, and secondly cleared for a left turn directly into the path of another aircraft. I've also had a complete electrical failure on a night flight in New Orleans where the only light I had was my knee pad. My Android phone had a GPS receiver, so when it can receive the GPS signals I get very good location, if not it uses the nearest cell tower. Basically, the issue with any mapping software is that it needs current maps and it needs to be adaptive. I am always amused that my car's GPS tells me correctly to get off of 128 at exit 22, but then tells me to take a left cross over 128, take the second right, then 2 more rights then a left and cross over 128 again rather than simply bear right off the exit. If I tell the GPS to use the short route, it gets it correct. Over time, the mapping software will improve, and GPS systems will also contain other real-time information. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
As an ex military pilot, I learned how to read a map and find out where I am on the map. As a sailor I was told to learn how to use a sextant. I ordered one, and to my dismay instead of receiving a cover for the cockpit of my boat to give me some privacy for intimate gatherings, it turned out to be some type of stupid navigational instrument. :-) Unfortunately even sextants need technology in the form of a very accurate clock to determine longitude (latitude is easily read once per day), so you can't get away from the technology part. And GPS systems are much easier to use. Still, I agree with learning to read and interpret the map in any case, as well as learning to read aerial photographs if you fly a lot. I don't think that anyone will disagree with that. It is the same thing as learning how to add, subtract, multiply and divide before you start using a calculator. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Wed, April 28, 2010 12:07 pm, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: It is the same thing as learning how to add, subtract, multiply and divide before you start using a calculator. In '76, my grandfather -- a mathematician -- bought me my first calculator. (A 7-digit red LED Commodore, no less. And, yes, that's the same Commodore.) My next-door-neighbor predicted the demise of all abilities to compute when our brains went soft because of calculators. Fast-forward to high-school physics, and our teacher decided to force logs on us... by way of a sliderule. I was the fastest in my class -- but it still made me wonder if similarly-dire Luddite-esque predictions hadn't been made when they'd come along. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
At college (1995 or so in specific) I noticed a definite correlation between engineering students whom I would actually trust to design something my life depended on (bridges, pacemakers, etc.) and the ability to do math without a fancy calculator. The newer graphing calculators doing all the systems of equations etc. for you just made the divide all the more apparent. Naturally, as a *nix geek, I had only a reg'lar old calculator (TI-35X 4-eva). I'm cutting-edge like that. I still think graphing calculators are dumb. A regular calculator because carrying around sine and cosine tables is easier that way, and then MathCAD/Matlab/etc. for serious number crunching. /caneshaking --DTVZ On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org wrote: On Wed, April 28, 2010 12:07 pm, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: It is the same thing as learning how to add, subtract, multiply and divide before you start using a calculator. In '76, my grandfather -- a mathematician -- bought me my first calculator. (A 7-digit red LED Commodore, no less. And, yes, that's the same Commodore.) My next-door-neighbor predicted the demise of all abilities to compute when our brains went soft because of calculators. Fast-forward to high-school physics, and our teacher decided to force logs on us... by way of a sliderule. I was the fastest in my class -- but it still made me wonder if similarly-dire Luddite-esque predictions hadn't been made when they'd come along. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Drew Van Zandt drew.vanza...@gmail.com wrote: I still think graphing calculators are dumb. You can't play Tetris with just a 7-segment display. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, I have a garmin. How do you find it works with Linux? Or do you? :) eTrex work great with gpsbabel. Newer, fancier units mount up as mass storage devices over USB and natively support GPX files. No problems what so ever. ...well, except for the salt water that eventually takes its toll on my GPSs. Cheers! Ty -- Tyson D Sawyer A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. - Daniel Webster ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
[OT] machines that think for you (was: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?)
Seth Cohn sethc...@gnuhampshire.org writes: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org wrote: On Wed, April 28, 2010 12:07 pm, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: It is the same thing as learning how to add, subtract, multiply and divide before you start using a calculator. In '76, my grandfather -- a mathematician -- bought me my first calculator. (A 7-digit red LED Commodore, no less. And, yes, that's the same Commodore.) My next-door-neighbor predicted the demise of all abilities to compute when our brains went soft because of calculators. Fast-forward to high-school physics, and our teacher decided to force logs on us... by way of a sliderule. I was the fastest in my class -- but it still made me wonder if similarly-dire Luddite-esque predictions hadn't been made when they'd come along. The day they allowed SAT test takers to use calculators, I knew that they'd hit rock bottom, and the tests no longer were meaningful (compared to when I took them and avg scores were dropping faster and faster). If you can't do the math yourself, how do you know the answer the calc gave is wrong? Sliderules are merely shortcuts, you still had to do some thinking about the answers. Did you know that, while graphing calculators are now allowed for use on the SATs, sliderules are not? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] machines that think for you (was: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?)
Speaking of sliderules http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/712349-196/then-seniors-at-alvirne-recounthow-record-slide-rule.html -roger (an Alvirne sophomore at the time) - Original Message - From: Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com To: Seth Cohn sethc...@gnuhampshire.org, gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:22:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [OT] machines that think for you (was: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?) Seth Cohn sethc...@gnuhampshire.org writes: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org wrote: On Wed, April 28, 2010 12:07 pm, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: It is the same thing as learning how to add, subtract, multiply and divide before you start using a calculator. In '76, my grandfather -- a mathematician -- bought me my first calculator. (A 7-digit red LED Commodore, no less. And, yes, that's the same Commodore.) My next-door-neighbor predicted the demise of all abilities to compute when our brains went soft because of calculators. Fast-forward to high-school physics, and our teacher decided to force logs on us... by way of a sliderule. I was the fastest in my class -- but it still made me wonder if similarly-dire Luddite-esque predictions hadn't been made when they'd come along. The day they allowed SAT test takers to use calculators, I knew that they'd hit rock bottom, and the tests no longer were meaningful (compared to when I took them and avg scores were dropping faster and faster). If you can't do the math yourself, how do you know the answer the calc gave is wrong? Sliderules are merely shortcuts, you still had to do some thinking about the answers. Did you know that, while graphing calculators are now allowed for use on the SATs, sliderules are not? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] machines that think for you (was: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?)
On Wed, April 28, 2010 4:49 pm, roger.levass...@comcast.net wrote: Speaking of sliderules And more speaking of same -- for those who want to (re-)live the past: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/be12/ That being said, they're to be found a-plenty on Ebay. I just wish I could remember the damn *math* I used to use 'em for. All gone. Must've been swapped out to /dev/null so I could fit things like, say, how to load OS/2 off of floppies, and Token Ring/Netware 2.x troubleshooting tips. *sigh* -Ken http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/712349-196/then-seniors-at-alvirne-re counthow-record-slide-rule.html -roger (an Alvirne sophomore at the time) - Original Message - From: Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com To: Seth Cohn sethc...@gnuhampshire.org, gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:22:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [OT] machines that think for you (was: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?) Seth Cohn sethc...@gnuhampshire.org writes: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org wrote: On Wed, April 28, 2010 12:07 pm, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: It is the same thing as learning how to add, subtract, multiply and divide before you start using a calculator. In '76, my grandfather -- a mathematician -- bought me my first calculator.  (A 7-digit red LED Commodore, no less.  And, yes, that's the same Commodore.)  My next-door-neighbor predicted the demise of all abilities to compute when our brains went soft because of calculators. Fast-forward to high-school physics, and our teacher decided to force logs on us... by way of a sliderule.  I was the fastest in my class -- but it still made me wonder if similarly-dire Luddite-esque predictions hadn't been made when they'd come along. The day they allowed SAT test takers to use calculators, I knew that they'd hit rock bottom, and the tests no longer were meaningful (compared to when I took them and avg scores were dropping faster and faster). If you can't do the math yourself, how do you know the answer the calc gave is wrong? Sliderules are merely shortcuts, you still had to do some thinking about the answers. Did you know that, while graphing calculators are now allowed for use on the SATs, sliderules are not? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [OT] machines that think for you (was: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?)
On 04/28/2010 06:06 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote: On Wed, April 28, 2010 4:49 pm, roger.levass...@comcast.net wrote: Speaking of sliderules And more speaking of same -- for those who want to (re-)live the past: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/be12/ That being said, they're to be found a-plenty on Ebay. I just wish I could remember the damn *math* I used to use 'em for. All gone. Must've been swapped out to /dev/null so I could fit things like, say, how to load OS/2 off of floppies, and Token Ring/Netware 2.x troubleshooting tips. *sigh* HAHAHA! -- Thanks, Joseph Smith Set-Top-Linux www.settoplinux.org ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: And *then* we discovered just how much better the OSM maps can be than the proprietary ones ... which makes perfect sense to me, since there's actually a way for bugs to be reported and fixed in OSM One of the selling points of the TomTom is that they have a mechanism for users to report updates back to the overmind. I don't know how well it works, but they do advertise the capability. Hunh--that's news to me. But now I see it on their website. Looks like it requires regular map-update purchases Updated commercial map sets are still way expensive, though. $80?!? Yikes! I'm pretty sure that the `$80 for one update' option is just the `decoy effect' in action: it's there to show people that `$40 per year' is `cheap' (even if you just want one update--throw the other 3 away, and you're still saving $40!). Of course, then we decided shortly thereafter that the whole `GPS thing' seemed mostly stupid as far as we were concerned anyway[1], I've got a set of paper road atlases which still serve me pretty well. Very large display surface, with excellent image quality, and they work *better* in bright sunlight. But they're getting out of date, and are rather tattered. I've considered just buying new paper maps, but have been pondering GPS, too. This thread is of interest to me. Electronic maps do have their advantages. Oh, of course. The classic issue of which features are defined as `advantageous' varying from user to user applies as well here as anywhere else, though--including some `features' for one type of user being `misfeatures' for another. Compact. i.e.: the display's too small, and it gets lost too easily? ;) The spot you're looking at will never be obscured by the boundary between two map pages. Fold-out maps. Then we're just back to the `25+ inches of monitor is too big' thread :) Route finding and estimating is useful if you're already on the road and want to make an unexpected change. Audible turn-by-turn directions are useful if you get confused on your way to a new-to-you location. See, these were the things that made me think `this whole GPS thing is stupid'--it's so tempting to use features like that, but I've invariably found that the `seat-of-the-pants technology' results in `knowing where I'm going without really having any idea where I *am* at any given point in time', which is just... perturbing. Especially when, say, a frozen body of water next to the road suddenly causes a multipath effect that makes the unit think that it's somewhere else until I'm well past a turn that I needed. I was delighted when I found applications that focused on just showing me a map with a `you are here' marker and indicators as to where I was in relation to where I wanted to be; creating, storing, and loading traces; managing waypoints and points of interest; and other sorts of `here's all of the information you need in an easy-to-grok form, learn something from it' stuff for which I would have previously used a set of paper maps. Of course, the real `killer feature' for me is being able to change the feature-set and add things that upstream didn't think of, e.g.: http://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/weblog/VisualIDs/mapping-with-visualids.html Route recording appeals to those who want to track where they've been, when (for whatever reason). Some like that just as a sort of extended `you are here' dot. Others like to use it to show other people where they've been, or to create traces to extend OpenStreetMap where the existing coverage is poor. Or to help find their way back when travelling off-road or in other similar situations. So I'm also wondering about good brands/models to buy, for the Linux user who prefers to avoid MS Windows. I use my FreeRunner :) If I were buying something right now, the Touch Book looks really neat for GPS/mapping/navigation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK6jVxd_o14 http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: I'm pretty sure that the `$80 for one update' option is just the `decoy effect' in action: it's there to show people that `$40 per year' is `cheap' ... Ah, good point! The spot you're looking at will never be obscured by the boundary between two map pages. Fold-out maps. The spot you're looking at will *still* be right on the edge between two plates. It's a corollary to Finagle's law. And fold-out maps are a serious impediment to operating a motor vehicle. See, these were the things that made me think `this whole GPS thing is stupid'--it's so tempting to use features like that, but I've invariably found that the `seat-of-the-pants technology' results in `knowing where I'm going without really having any idea where I *am* at any given point in time', which is just... perturbing. I've actually had fairly good results using GPS units belonging to friends. They were not perfect, but nothing is. I've made mistakes plotting routes manually, too. I do much prefer to plan my route ahead of time, but sometimes life doesn't work that way. I'd rather have the option. To me, it seems stupid to deliberately avoid a capability just because it does not work perfectly. In particular, real-time routefinding with turn-by-turn directions wins big in situations such the road I was planning on using is closed or I just missed my turn. It's not always feasible to stop and consult the map. (In Boston, it can be downright suicidal.) And even in situations where I can plan my route, the ability to listen for real-time updates, rather than peering around at street signs (instead of the street ahead of me) makes for safer driving. Especially when, say, a frozen body of water next to the road suddenly causes a multipath effect that makes the unit think that it's somewhere else until I'm well past a turn that I needed. The software on anything decent made in the past several years is generally smart enough to monitor velocity and ignore data that would yield physically impossible results. I was delighted when I found applications that focused on just showing me a map with a `you are here' marker and indicators as to where I was in relation to where I wanted to be ... What were you using that couldn't do that? I've honestly never seen a GPS that did not have that capability. Indeed, that's all you had at first (beyond a simple lat/long readout). Routefinding and turn-by-turn directions are the newer features. I use my FreeRunner :) I have a phone provided by work, and it's not that. Plus you can generally get a bigger screen if you're not locked into the phone form factor. Something about 3x5 inches seems optimal for dashboard placement. If I were buying something right now, the Touch Book looks really neat for GPS/mapping/navigation: Too big to fit on my dashboard. I already have a laptop I can use for pull over and consult the map situations. But ultimately, if you don't want a GPS, by all means, don't buy one. Those of us who do want one would like to know what's good to buy. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 9:51 AM, bruce.lab...@autoliv.com wrote: Towards that end, I'd like to get a new GPS that is OpenStreetMap compatible. My google-fu is pretty lacking - as many list members may have noticed over the years. The OpenStreetMap site(s) I've visited haven't been too illuminating. Does anyone have direct experience with GPS units that work with OSM and are decent? Oh, and the GPS unit is recent enough that I could buy it new? Maybe it is just time to get a new phone. The Droid has these apps that use the OpenStreetMap data: * MapDroyd * MultiMap * Maps (-) * PocketNavigator * OSMTracker for Android * Osmdroid -marc -- Marc Nozell (m...@nozell.com) http://www.nozell.com/blog ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
We were contemplating GPS units last year, but we never completed the research and didn't make a purchase. That being said, it looks like the major players are Garmin and TomTom. Some TomTom units run Linux, see: http://opentom.org/ However, Garmin may be more ubiquitous. It looks like newer Garmins support USB Mass Storage. So putting OpenStreetMap data files on them is simply a matter of copying the appropriate .img file. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Mass_Storage_Mode http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download --Peter On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 9:51 AM, bruce.lab...@autoliv.com wrote: I've got an old un-upgradable GPS unit that I'd like to replace. (At this point the maps are old enough that I've been directed out in the weeds quite a few times. Umm, that is NOT the point of a GPS...) Towards that end, I'd like to get a new GPS that is OpenStreetMap compatible. My google-fu is pretty lacking - as many list members may have noticed over the years. The OpenStreetMap site(s) I've visited haven't been too illuminating. Does anyone have direct experience with GPS units that work with OSM and are decent? Oh, and the GPS unit is recent enough that I could buy it new? TIA Bruce ** Neither the footer nor anything else in this E-mail is intended to or constitutes an brelectronic signature and/or legally binding agreement in the absence of an brexpress statement or Autoliv policy and/or procedure to the contrary.brThis E-mail and any attachments hereto are Autoliv property and may contain legally brprivileged, confidential and/or proprietary information.brThe recipient of this E-mail is prohibited from distributing, copying, forwarding or in any way brdisseminating any material contained within this E-mail without prior written brpermission from the author. If you receive this E-mail in error, please brimmediately notify the author and delete this E-mail. Autoliv disclaims all brresponsibility and liability for the consequences of any person who fails to brabide by the terms herein. br ** ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: And *then* we discovered just how much better the OSM maps can be than the proprietary ones ... which makes perfect sense to me, since there's actually a way for bugs to be reported and fixed in OSM One of the selling points of the TomTom is that they have a mechanism for users to report updates back to the overmind. I don't know how well it works, but they do advertise the capability. Updated commercial map sets are still way expensive, though. $80?!? Yikes! Of course, then we decided shortly thereafter that the whole `GPS thing' seemed mostly stupid as far as we were concerned anyway[1], I've got a set of paper road atlases which still serve me pretty well. Very large display surface, with excellent image quality, and they work *better* in bright sunlight. But they're getting out of date, and are rather tattered. I've considered just buying new paper maps, but have been pondering GPS, too. This thread is of interest to me. Electronic maps do have their advantages. Compact. The spot you're looking at will never be obscured by the boundary between two map pages. Route finding and estimating is useful if you're already on the road and want to make an unexpected change. Audible turn-by-turn directions are useful if you get confused on your way to a new-to-you location. Route recording appeals to those who want to track where they've been, when (for whatever reason). So I'm also wondering about good brands/models to buy, for the Linux user who prefers to avoid MS Windows. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenStreetMap compatible GPS?
Joshua Judson Rosen writes: (we're a Debian household) I found this phrase to be entertaining...it just rolled off Joshua's tongue with the same ease that somebody might say: we're a vegetarian household we're a kosher household we have cats in our household we watch the Boston Bruins in this household we ride bicycles in this household Etc. Anyways, I found how easily a phrase like this can be uttered nowadays to be entertaining... (-: --kevin -- alumni.unh.edu!kdc / http://kdc-blog.blogspot.com/ GnuPG: D87F DAD6 0291 289C EB1E 781C 9BF8 A7D8 B280 F24E Wipe him down with gasoline 'til his arms are hard and mean From now on boys this iron boat's your home So heave away, boys. -- Tom Waits ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
