Re: Committing translations
Hello 2014-09-13 21:41 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Franke : > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen > wrote: >> Kenneth, our previous coordinator, has argued very convincingly that >> working over the mailing list is more efficient than using damned >> lies. Amongst other things this is because we always proofread a >> specially generated podiff. > > How is this different from the diff offered by Damned lies? Well you can't write comments in between the diff chunks for one thing, as it's side-by-side. What we do is to annotate the diff freely and send that back to the translator. It's the central step of the process so we're somewhat picky about this. For example it's very nice that the entire header, with all the comments, are included in the diff even if only the timestamp was changed. Our podiffs don't have a fixed amount of context but rather work in terms of entire entries. This is a minor thing perhaps, but when you have to proofread a a couple thousand strings, you know > >> It also seems to me that the damned lies >> workflow involves the reviewer correcting the po-file. > > It's a possibility but not mandatory. The reviewer can also simply use > the "Write a comment" action to suggest improvements, or even "Rework > needed" if the translation is too far from being ready. Once the > translation is ready, the reviewer can simply mark the file as "Ready > for submission", without having to upload a new version first. > > By the way, in case you haven't seen it yet, the workflow is explained > by https://l10n.gnome.org/static/img/workflow-translation.png which is > available next to the action combo box. > >> In our group >> the reviewer writes comments in the podiff to the translator who then >> learns something and edits the po-file. A minor issue perhaps, but >> it's not so smooth with damned lies, and there are a few other reasons >> as well. > > See above how you can do just that. But how exactly? Perhaps I am overlooking something, but the diff does not seem easily editable as I noted above. Either way thank you for all the information. Best regards Ask > >> So I would be quite interested in a git account. Could this be arranged >> please? > > https://wiki.gnome.org/TranslationProject#For_coordinators_or_committers_of_a_language_team > > -- > Alexandre Franke > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Committing translations
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen wrote: > Kenneth, our previous coordinator, has argued very convincingly that > working over the mailing list is more efficient than using damned > lies. Amongst other things this is because we always proofread a > specially generated podiff. How is this different from the diff offered by Damned lies? > It also seems to me that the damned lies > workflow involves the reviewer correcting the po-file. It's a possibility but not mandatory. The reviewer can also simply use the "Write a comment" action to suggest improvements, or even "Rework needed" if the translation is too far from being ready. Once the translation is ready, the reviewer can simply mark the file as "Ready for submission", without having to upload a new version first. By the way, in case you haven't seen it yet, the workflow is explained by https://l10n.gnome.org/static/img/workflow-translation.png which is available next to the action combo box. > In our group > the reviewer writes comments in the podiff to the translator who then > learns something and edits the po-file. A minor issue perhaps, but > it's not so smooth with damned lies, and there are a few other reasons > as well. See above how you can do just that. > So I would be quite interested in a git account. Could this be arranged > please? https://wiki.gnome.org/TranslationProject#For_coordinators_or_committers_of_a_language_team -- Alexandre Franke ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Committing translations
Ask Hjorth Larsen: > >> I recently became coordinator of the Danish translation team. I am > >> now using damned lies to commit some translations. It results in a > >> bit more clicking than strictly necessary. > > > > That's because you're doing it wrong. ;-) > > Right :). Well... The situation for Swedish is similar to your, Ask. DL could have been a good way to handle translations if it took care of all of them. But it only handles Gnome translations, and the translation group isn't t Gnome only. And there aren't any "Gnome translators for Swedish", there are "translators for Swedish" that work on Gnome among other things. We have a central mailing list where many FOSS translations are handled. It seems to be roughly the same for you. Just to give you some ideas, this is how we do it for Swedish Gnome: 1. A translator reserves a translation on DL 2. The translator sends his translation to DL 3. The translator sends a note to the mailing list alerting others he has done so. Typically the mail includes links to the translation on DL the entire translation as an attachment. 4. One of the team reviewers reserves the translation for review, adding a note that the review actually takes place on the mailing list. 5. We allow a couple of weeks for review and discussion on the mailing list. 6. The translator sends any corrections to DL. 7. The reviewer who reserved the translation marks it for submission. 8. The coordinator sends the translation to the repository. Again, just to give you some ideas. I don't pretend to know if this would work for you or not. There still are a couple of extra manual steps for us. In my view, not quite as bad as you describe. I don't have to remove the reservations; only the real translator sends translations to DL. We have a web page to describe the variations in the translation process for different projects. (http://www.tp-sv.se/dok-4.html#ss4.2) It's in Swedish, but I guess our Danish colleagues will figure that out easily. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Committing translations
2014-09-12 12:09 GMT+02:00 Ask Hjorth Larsen : > > > So I would be quite interested in a git account. Could this be arranged > please? > > Apart from this specific case, I would vote for giving team coordinators a git account (if requested), so they will be able to directly fix typos in original strings, or to use automated scripts to commit translations, instead of uploading and commiting them individually. At least for the Spanish team, the coordinator is who has more assigned modules (sadly, most of the time I'm the only active translator in the team...), so commiting a bunch of translations using DL may be painful (considering that nobody's reviewing these translations, so DL's workflow is not used). Also, it seems that DL is not friend of modules that don't have PO files in standar places (video-subtitles is the most recent example of this, but don't know if there are other modules affected), so a Git account is needed in this situations. Best regards ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Committing translations
Hello Kenneth, our previous coordinator, has argued very convincingly that working over the mailing list is more efficient than using damned lies. Amongst other things this is because we always proofread a specially generated podiff. It also seems to me that the damned lies workflow involves the reviewer correcting the po-file. In our group the reviewer writes comments in the podiff to the translator who then learns something and edits the po-file. A minor issue perhaps, but it's not so smooth with damned lies, and there are a few other reasons as well. So I would be quite interested in a git account. Could this be arranged please? Best regards Ask 2014-09-12 0:30 GMT+02:00 Ask Hjorth Larsen : > Hello Alexandre > > 2014-09-12 0:15 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Franke : >> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Ask Hjorth Larsen >> wrote: >>> Hello translators and other wise people >> >> Hey Ask! >> >>> I recently became coordinator of the Danish translation team. I am >>> now using damned lies to commit some translations. It results in a >>> bit more clicking than strictly necessary. >> >> That's because you're doing it wrong. ;-) > > Right :). Well... > >> >>> Basically we use a mailing list to facilitate the proofreading >>> process, and our translators eventually send the finished files to our >>> mailing list for committing. What I do then is to go to damned lies, >>> remove their reservation, upload the new file, claim that it's ready >>> to be committed, and then I commit it. This does not seem to fit 100% >>> the way the system was thought out. Is it an acceptable way to do >>> things? It is a lot of clicking to circumvent things that are >>> obviously meant to be there. >> >> Acceptable, sure. Best choice? I don't think so. >> >> While a mailing list can be an okay tool for the job, Damned lies >> really shines in that context and was designed for that workflow. It's >> way better as it allows you to track the exact state of modules. You >> can see what's been translated and not reviewed yet, what's reviewed >> and needs to be pushed to the repos, or what is being left out by >> translators. You can also use the commenting system to have a >> discussion and I think this is better than a thread on a mailing list >> as it keeps the relevant messages grouped together in one place on the >> module page. >> >> The fact that you can diff between the submitted files and the repos, >> or the automatic merging/updating of files when new strings appear in >> the module, are also killer features that you won't find in a mailing >> list centered workflow. >> >> I may be forgetting other advantages to using Damned lies, but I hope >> I've made my point with what I already said. >> >>> As an alternative I could use git directly, but I don't have a key >>> registered for that. >> >> Meh. You can do it if you decide to keep using the mailing list, but I >> don't think it's a good idea. >> >>> What do you generally do and think? >> >> Of course each team is free to work the way they want, but I strongly >> advise you to use Damned lies for the whole process. It will make your >> life way easier, believe me. :-) >> >> -- >> Alexandre Franke > > We translate a lot of different projects through the mailinglist, many > of which are not on damned lies. I guess I can ask the others how > they like to do things. But since we (ir)regularly get po-files from > translationproject.org, Launchpad, KDE, transifex and GNOME, it's a > bit "out of the way" for us to make exceptions for GNOME. I do agree > with you that damned lies is very powerful though. We'll see... > > Thank you again. > > Best regards > Ask ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Committing translations
Hello Alexandre 2014-09-12 0:15 GMT+02:00 Alexandre Franke : > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Ask Hjorth Larsen > wrote: >> Hello translators and other wise people > > Hey Ask! > >> I recently became coordinator of the Danish translation team. I am >> now using damned lies to commit some translations. It results in a >> bit more clicking than strictly necessary. > > That's because you're doing it wrong. ;-) Right :). Well... > >> Basically we use a mailing list to facilitate the proofreading >> process, and our translators eventually send the finished files to our >> mailing list for committing. What I do then is to go to damned lies, >> remove their reservation, upload the new file, claim that it's ready >> to be committed, and then I commit it. This does not seem to fit 100% >> the way the system was thought out. Is it an acceptable way to do >> things? It is a lot of clicking to circumvent things that are >> obviously meant to be there. > > Acceptable, sure. Best choice? I don't think so. > > While a mailing list can be an okay tool for the job, Damned lies > really shines in that context and was designed for that workflow. It's > way better as it allows you to track the exact state of modules. You > can see what's been translated and not reviewed yet, what's reviewed > and needs to be pushed to the repos, or what is being left out by > translators. You can also use the commenting system to have a > discussion and I think this is better than a thread on a mailing list > as it keeps the relevant messages grouped together in one place on the > module page. > > The fact that you can diff between the submitted files and the repos, > or the automatic merging/updating of files when new strings appear in > the module, are also killer features that you won't find in a mailing > list centered workflow. > > I may be forgetting other advantages to using Damned lies, but I hope > I've made my point with what I already said. > >> As an alternative I could use git directly, but I don't have a key >> registered for that. > > Meh. You can do it if you decide to keep using the mailing list, but I > don't think it's a good idea. > >> What do you generally do and think? > > Of course each team is free to work the way they want, but I strongly > advise you to use Damned lies for the whole process. It will make your > life way easier, believe me. :-) > > -- > Alexandre Franke We translate a lot of different projects through the mailinglist, many of which are not on damned lies. I guess I can ask the others how they like to do things. But since we (ir)regularly get po-files from translationproject.org, Launchpad, KDE, transifex and GNOME, it's a bit "out of the way" for us to make exceptions for GNOME. I do agree with you that damned lies is very powerful though. We'll see... Thank you again. Best regards Ask ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Committing translations
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Ask Hjorth Larsen wrote: > Hello translators and other wise people Hey Ask! > I recently became coordinator of the Danish translation team. I am > now using damned lies to commit some translations. It results in a > bit more clicking than strictly necessary. That's because you're doing it wrong. ;-) > Basically we use a mailing list to facilitate the proofreading > process, and our translators eventually send the finished files to our > mailing list for committing. What I do then is to go to damned lies, > remove their reservation, upload the new file, claim that it's ready > to be committed, and then I commit it. This does not seem to fit 100% > the way the system was thought out. Is it an acceptable way to do > things? It is a lot of clicking to circumvent things that are > obviously meant to be there. Acceptable, sure. Best choice? I don't think so. While a mailing list can be an okay tool for the job, Damned lies really shines in that context and was designed for that workflow. It's way better as it allows you to track the exact state of modules. You can see what's been translated and not reviewed yet, what's reviewed and needs to be pushed to the repos, or what is being left out by translators. You can also use the commenting system to have a discussion and I think this is better than a thread on a mailing list as it keeps the relevant messages grouped together in one place on the module page. The fact that you can diff between the submitted files and the repos, or the automatic merging/updating of files when new strings appear in the module, are also killer features that you won't find in a mailing list centered workflow. I may be forgetting other advantages to using Damned lies, but I hope I've made my point with what I already said. > As an alternative I could use git directly, but I don't have a key > registered for that. Meh. You can do it if you decide to keep using the mailing list, but I don't think it's a good idea. > What do you generally do and think? Of course each team is free to work the way they want, but I strongly advise you to use Damned lies for the whole process. It will make your life way easier, believe me. :-) -- Alexandre Franke ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Committing translations
Hello translators and other wise people I recently became coordinator of the Danish translation team. I am now using damned lies to commit some translations. It results in a bit more clicking than strictly necessary. Basically we use a mailing list to facilitate the proofreading process, and our translators eventually send the finished files to our mailing list for committing. What I do then is to go to damned lies, remove their reservation, upload the new file, claim that it's ready to be committed, and then I commit it. This does not seem to fit 100% the way the system was thought out. Is it an acceptable way to do things? It is a lot of clicking to circumvent things that are obviously meant to be there. As an alternative I could use git directly, but I don't have a key registered for that. What do you generally do and think? Best regards Ask ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
