Re: [GNC] Chase ofx support?

[GWB]

I make an effort when I have to call Chase, Schwab, etc., for other
topics (mystery charges, etc.) to also request that they make an .ofx
download available.  Schwab is a hard no on that, and they got rid of
direct connect years ago.  Chase last week indicated that .ofx was
gone since 2021, but they politely noted my request for the format.
So that's also no, but .qfx does work for me.  If Quicken et. al.
decide to change the format again to diverge further from .ofx, then I
suppose we might be out of luck.  But I'm betting on inertia to
prevent that happening, and it would require them to do or spend
something to try that.

The banks and fiduciaries claimed that direct connect was a security
problem, but for some of them I paid just shy of $10 a month for the
feature, so I must imagine it cost them something to deal with it.
But surely less than $7 to $10 per account monthly, so I was not too
sad to switch to monthly downloads of the .ofx files and save the
money.  .qfx works as well, but again, I don't know how much interest
they have in making it available, or how eager Quicken is to "improve"
the format to the point it causes problems for gnucash imports.
Chase, Apple Card, Privacy.com, and I think Revolut still allow .qfx
or .ofx downloads.  Schwab and similar just say no.  PayPal (as far as
I remember) never had .ofx or .qfx, nor direct connect.

But of course, the account holder should be able to specify how their
data is made available to them, within reason.  What a nice world that
would be.  Unlike direct connect, which had a commercial base of their
customers, they seem to think those of us who ask for .ofx data as
gnucash weirdos.  I identify with that.

You might find some banks (mostly outside of the US) that still have
direct connect, but if they charge you for it, you can evaluate how
much its worth.  Programs and services for tax compliance and capital
gains have something similar to direct connect (GainsKeeper, etc.),
but that probably isn't too useful.

Gordon

On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 12:02 PM D Ducky  wrote:
>
> I use that, I was just wondering if there's any direct connect support
> anymore, as opposed to download/import.
>
> On 8/14/23 21:07, Kalpesh Patel wrote:
> > Chase does supports download in CSV, QFX, QIF and QBO formats for Credit
> > Card and Bank accounts.
> >
> > QFX format seems to be the best and then importing it as a OFX/QFX has
> > worked well ...
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Ralls 
> > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 4:43 PM
> > To: D Ducky 
> > Cc: Jon Schewe ; Gnucash Users 
> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Chase ofx support?
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 14, 2023, at 1:33 PM, D Ducky  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> It seems Chase does not support OFX anymore.
> >>
> >>
> > https://www.banktivity.com/support/articles/banktivity-7/ofx-direct-connect-
> > will-no-longer-be-supported-by-chase-as-of-october-6th-2022/
> >>
> >> Is it possible to use some other method in gnucash to download
> > transactions from gnucash?
> > No, there is no other method in GnuCash to download transactions from US
> > banks. You may be able to download files from Chase's website that you can
> > import into GnuCash using File>Import. Likely formats are OFX, QFX, QIF, and
> > CSV.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [GNC] Discretionary taxes

[GWB]

There was indeed a US federal level medical device excise tax, but it
was placed in moratorium in 2015 and repealed in 2019:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/medical-device-excise-tax

This must be a county tax.  Well, I'm stumped.  It probably should be
tracked and calculated, but I'm not sure how.  The check for the 7.5%
of the non-exempt revenue probably goes to Florida Dept. of Revenue,
the check for the 1% probably goes to the county?  Martin, I think
your idea of splitting it into a separate account might be the way to
go.  But for federal tax on S Corp, Schedule C, etc., I don't know how
that works.  You effectively have an 8.5% sales tax on non-exempt
items.  But do the federal tax schedules treat the 1% differently?  I
hope not.

Gordon

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 9:29 PM Stan Brown  wrote:
>
>
> On 2021-05-10 15:10, Martijn Heuts wrote:
> > Hello trying to find a way to add discretionary taxes in GNUcash.
>
> "Discretionary taxes" sounds on a par with "deafening silence" or
> "mournful optimist." :-)
>
> > Descretionary tax in our county is a 1% fee on taxable revenue, paid 
> > monthly and added by the IRS when you file the sales taxes.
>
> Surely _not_ the IRS. The Internal Revenue Service is part of the
> Federal government, and Federal taxes must be uniform throughout the
> United States. (U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 8) There's no such
> tax here where I live now, or in the three others states I've lived in,
> so it can't be a Federal tax.
>
> Maybe you meant the Florida (or county) tax or revenue department?
>
> --
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
> https://OakRoadSystems.com
> ___
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Re: [GNC] Discretionary taxes

[GWB]

Interesting.  What is the taxing jurisdiction?  Is it a tax on sales
or a tax on total revenue?  In some jurisdictions the discretionary
tax is on total revenues, somewhat like a surcharge on existing VAT.
In Florida and some other US states discretionary tax is an additional
sales tax levied by individual counties or municipalities.  So this is
a sales tax?  But it is not a discretionary tax paid "in lieu of" some
other fee or tax?  If sales, like any other sales tax.

Gordon

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 5:10 PM Martijn Heuts  wrote:
>
> Hello trying to find a way to add discretionary taxes in GNUcash.
>
> Descretionary tax in our county is a 1% fee on taxable revenue, paid monthly 
> and added by the IRS when you file the sales taxes.
>
> Thanks
>
> ⁣Martyn
> ___
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Re: [GNC] What does OFX Direct Connect do?

[GWB]

OFX as a format does several things CSV does not.  It can give a
unique transaction ID, which the software can then "remember" if there
are a number of repeated transactions of the same amount and similar
dates.  With OFX, you know they are unique transactions because of the
unique identifier.

When GnuCash imports OFX transactions, it can tell (almost always?
most of the time?) if that particular transaction has already been
recorded in the ledger.  I find that helpful.  The most time consuming
part of the process for me is assigning categories, transfer accounts,
and determining if it is a split transaction (that I usually do in
another step after importing).

If there is no other option, CSV can work, and QFX is very close to
OFX (but it adds that hint of evil John mentioned).  I dislike the way
most banks implement Direct Connect, but others think it works fine
for them, and is secure enough.  I connect to the institution using a
VPN and then download the data in all the formats they allow (if they
don't allow downloads, then I'm forced to use Direct Connect).  I then
have an OFX, QFX, CSV and ocassionally QIF files (usually separate
files by month).  That's obviously overkill, but if the OFX download
is missing some data, or gets corrupted, I have the other one as a
check.

And, of course, I do this wearing a tin foil hat (just kidding! I use
Velostat for all my alien mind control prevention).

You would probably be fine just download the OFX file and then
importing the transaction like John describes (File>Import>Import
OFX/QFX).  Use a relatively updated web browser (like brave, but
chrome, firefox, work) and your bank will encrypt the connection with
https.  If you don't see "https" or a locking icon in the browser bar,
then ask your bank about that (you won't get a person on the phone, so
better to google "Is my browser connection encrypted?").  Most people
are fine with that, but assess your own risk.

Gordon

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 10:09 PM John Ralls  wrote:
>
> No, OFX is a file format. Many financial/bank websites offer OFX or QFX 
> downloads of your transaction data; more in fact than offer OFX Direct 
> Connect. Since OFX (and it's slightly altered evil twin QFX, for Quicken 
> Financial eXchange) are formats expressly designed for transferring consumer 
> transaction information it's a more efficient and less error prone way to 
> import transactions into programs like GnuCash.
>
> If your bank offers OFX Direct Connect then GnuCash can connect to your bank 
> and get that OFX download. If not but allows downloading OFX-formatted files 
> then you go to the bank website, log in, and get the download, then use 
> File>Import>Import OFX/QFX to import it.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
> > On May 18, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Fran_3  wrote:
> >
> > Woops! No ill intent. I've seen the same response on other SIG's when 
> > someone started a new thread that a groups member or admin thought should 
> > have been included in a recent thread on that some related topic. Oh well.
> >
> > Back to the topic... so OFX just saves you the steps of downloading the 
> > transactions as CSV and then having to do a bit of formatting before you 
> > import them into GC... right?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Monday, May 18, 2020, 1:48:19 PM EDT, John Ralls  
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Don't hijack threads, it's rude. Start a new one when you have a new 
> > question.
> >
> > OFX Direct Connect is just like importing an OFX or QFX file downloaded 
> > from your bank's website except that it will connect to the bank and get 
> > the OFX file for you.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> >
> > > On May 18, 2020, at 10:27 AM, Fran_3  wrote:
> > >
> > > If I can jump in here I would like to learn more about OFX Direct Connect 
> > > with GnuCash.
> > >
> > > Does such automatically determine what transactions occur at the bank 
> > > that are not in GC...
> > > And then automatically update GnuCash?
> > >
> > > Or what?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Monday, May 18, 2020, 12:35:10 PM EDT, John Ralls  
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On May 17, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Hershey  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm new to Gnu and am having issues setting up online downloads.
> > > > My first attempt is Wells Fargo and I get a 2000 error message.
> > > > The Tutorial show Wells Fargo in its example but I've also seen this
> > > > statement on the web: Wells Fargo has switched to OFX Web Connect. 
> > > > GnuCash
> > > > doesn't support this authentication.
> > >
> > > That last sentence is your answer, but perhaps you need some more detail. 
> > > There are two ways of connecting to a bank for OFX online communication, 
> > > OFX Direct Connect and OFX Web Connect. The former collects your user 
> > > name and password as part of the online session and the latter has you 
> > > log in to the bank's website and launch the OFX session from there. The 
> > > way that the bank's website connects to the financial software is 
> > > 

Re: [GNC] XML vs SQL data integrity question

[GWB]

Jeff,

When you get the time, you might try this: Save the xml file twice in
each data format (or at least those that work).  If the two saved
files in the same format are identical in size, you have a high
probability that GnuCash consistently wrote the data.  You won't be
100% sure if that was all your data from the .xml file, but that's
more likely if GnuCash saves the data consistently.  You might also
open the xml file and looking through it (saved reports can be handy
for this), and then open the sql file and comparing dates,
descriptions, etc.  See if you locate the newest and oldest
transaction in each; that's a good start.

Realize that the sql files may not be identical in different formats;
mysql, postgresql, and sqlite3 files of the same data might might
differ in size.  But two mysql files saved from the same xml file
should be.

MySQl should work fine.  That's the one that uses the dolphin logo,
correct?  You can find some nice guis and front end tools for MySQL
databases.  Their web site should list them for download.  Those are
way easier than using command line queries on a sql interpreter shell.
If you have 30 years of data, you probably should be using a sql
backend to save your data.  I do use the .xml format, but I have
hourly snapshots of the entire Windows VM on zfs disks, so I've been
able to rollback to the last snapshot when Windows freezes (which is
rare using it as a Virtual Machine Guest).  So I haven't lost any data
yet.

Consider (when time allows) installing Windows on a new or different
machine (and possibly as a virtual machine guest) and then see if it
still freezes and crashes.  I would not overspend (whatever that means
these days; Under 2K?  I still think that's high), but you could ask
here on this list and see what GnuCash users have.  You will probably
find that there are a lot of Dell's, HP's, Lenovo's, etc., and they
make good ones.  If I don't build my own, I very much like System 76
products (https://system76.com/).  But they are expensive, and they
are probably pretty much identical to a high end Clevo or Sager.

Gordon

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 1:15 AM Jeff  wrote:
>
> On 5/8/2020 2:03 AM, GWB wrote:
>
> Have you tried sqlite? I don't know how it works on Windows but it might just 
> save it as a file without setting up a salute back end. Maybe try that when 
> you have time.
>
> Gordon
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 1:27 AM Jeff  wrote:
>>
>> On 5/7/2020 8:28 PM, GWB wrote:
>> > The idea about the images is a very good one.  Invoices, receipts,
>> > etc., would do fine in digital format.
>> >
>> > No question that databases are capable of much greater depth,
>> > granularity and ability to search and change.  However, in defense of
>> > the humble xml text file, I give you this:
>> >
>> > cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 1 -A 1 date-posted | less
>> >
>> > Which shows every date-posted field and date, and one line before and
>> > one line after.
>> >
>> > And:
>> >
>> > cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 6 -A 3 2019-10-13 | less
>> >
>> > Which finds all transactions with date 2019-10-13, the guid,
>> > Description, Currency, etc. (B 6 = 6 lines before, A 3 = 3 lines
>> > after).
>> >
>> > Not to mention awk and sed, which can do much more complicated things
>> > with the search and replace terms.  But don't try this without a
>> > current backup.  awk and sed can very  easily ruin a file if just one
>> > argument for regrep replace is off by the slightest term.
>> >
>> > But if you can get a command line with bash, or something close, and
>> > you saved a copy as xml, you probably can't do that kind of damage
>> > with grep (but of course, someone will prove this wrong).  If you want
>> > to save your search results:
>> >
>> > cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 6 -A 3 2019-10-13 >
>> > all-transactions-2019-10-13.txt
>> >
>> > Will give you a file with all the transactions from that date with
>> > surrounding fields.  You might need to use ">>" instead of ">" with
>> > some shells.
>> >
>> > Then you can see them by:
>> >
>> > less all-transactions-2019-10-13.txt
>> >
>> > Which then lets you scroll up, down, search within results, etc.
>> >
>> > Grep, less and a few shell commands are much easier to learn than sql
>> > query language in my opinion.  But no question a database has lots of
>> > advantages over a text file.
>> >
>> > Gordon
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:32 PM Jeff  wrote:
>> >> On 5/7/2020 11:18 

Re: [GNC] XML vs SQL data integrity question

[GWB]

Have you tried sqlite? I don't know how it works on Windows but it might
just save it as a file without setting up a salute back end. Maybe try that
when you have time.

Gordon

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 1:27 AM Jeff  wrote:

> On 5/7/2020 8:28 PM, GWB wrote:
> > The idea about the images is a very good one.  Invoices, receipts,
> > etc., would do fine in digital format.
> >
> > No question that databases are capable of much greater depth,
> > granularity and ability to search and change.  However, in defense of
> > the humble xml text file, I give you this:
> >
> > cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 1 -A 1 date-posted | less
> >
> > Which shows every date-posted field and date, and one line before and
> > one line after.
> >
> > And:
> >
> > cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 6 -A 3 2019-10-13 | less
> >
> > Which finds all transactions with date 2019-10-13, the guid,
> > Description, Currency, etc. (B 6 = 6 lines before, A 3 = 3 lines
> > after).
> >
> > Not to mention awk and sed, which can do much more complicated things
> > with the search and replace terms.  But don't try this without a
> > current backup.  awk and sed can very  easily ruin a file if just one
> > argument for regrep replace is off by the slightest term.
> >
> > But if you can get a command line with bash, or something close, and
> > you saved a copy as xml, you probably can't do that kind of damage
> > with grep (but of course, someone will prove this wrong).  If you want
> > to save your search results:
> >
> > cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 6 -A 3 2019-10-13 >
> > all-transactions-2019-10-13.txt
> >
> > Will give you a file with all the transactions from that date with
> > surrounding fields.  You might need to use ">>" instead of ">" with
> > some shells.
> >
> > Then you can see them by:
> >
> > less all-transactions-2019-10-13.txt
> >
> > Which then lets you scroll up, down, search within results, etc.
> >
> > Grep, less and a few shell commands are much easier to learn than sql
> > query language in my opinion.  But no question a database has lots of
> > advantages over a text file.
> >
> > Gordon
> >
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:32 PM Jeff  wrote:
> >> On 5/7/2020 11:18 AM, Gregory Gincley wrote:
> >>> Sounds like you have a couple of issues happening there.
> >>>
> >>> I have no experience with Windows, but I've used the postgres backend
> >>> in linux for many years without issue.
> >>>
> >>> I also periodically save to the XML format as a backup.
> >>>
> >>> -Greg
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 2020-05-07 at 00:07 -0500, Jeff wrote:
> >>>> This has probably been discussed here before but; I'm going ask
> >>>> anyway.
> >>>> Which do most people find more reliable with GNC, SQL or the default
> >>>> XML?  And are there any features I would lose other than the
> >>>> rollback
> >>>> ability with SQL?
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm getting tired of having to track down account and report issues
> >>>> every time Windoze 10 hiccups.  I use the default XML,
> >>>> uncompressed.
> >>>> One set of books has been corrupted several times, I'm assuming when
> >>>> Windoze just simply kills the GNC program out of the blue.  I have
> >>>> another set of books for a business that so far, knock on wood,  the
> >>>> only problem is sometimes various buttons have to be selected
> >>>> multiple
> >>>> times to work then all of the windows open in GNC blur while
> >>>> processing
> >>>> then go back to normal display.
> >>>>
> >>>> My computers are all networked and dual boot Windoze and Ubuntu, so
> >>>> I
> >>>> would need SQL on both sides if I switch over.  I'm leaning towards
> >>>> PostgreSQL (pro's, con's?  Suggestions?).
> >>>>
> >>> ___
> >>> gnucash-user mailing list
> >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> >>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> >>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> >>> -
> >>> Please remember to CC this list on al

Re: [GNC] XML vs SQL data integrity question

[GWB]

The idea about the images is a very good one.  Invoices, receipts,
etc., would do fine in digital format.

No question that databases are capable of much greater depth,
granularity and ability to search and change.  However, in defense of
the humble xml text file, I give you this:

cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 1 -A 1 date-posted | less

Which shows every date-posted field and date, and one line before and
one line after.

And:

cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 6 -A 3 2019-10-13 | less

Which finds all transactions with date 2019-10-13, the guid,
Description, Currency, etc. (B 6 = 6 lines before, A 3 = 3 lines
after).

Not to mention awk and sed, which can do much more complicated things
with the search and replace terms.  But don't try this without a
current backup.  awk and sed can very  easily ruin a file if just one
argument for regrep replace is off by the slightest term.

But if you can get a command line with bash, or something close, and
you saved a copy as xml, you probably can't do that kind of damage
with grep (but of course, someone will prove this wrong).  If you want
to save your search results:

cat GnuCash-xml-file.gnucash | grep -B 6 -A 3 2019-10-13 >
all-transactions-2019-10-13.txt

Will give you a file with all the transactions from that date with
surrounding fields.  You might need to use ">>" instead of ">" with
some shells.

Then you can see them by:

less all-transactions-2019-10-13.txt

Which then lets you scroll up, down, search within results, etc.

Grep, less and a few shell commands are much easier to learn than sql
query language in my opinion.  But no question a database has lots of
advantages over a text file.

Gordon

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:32 PM Jeff  wrote:
>
> On 5/7/2020 11:18 AM, Gregory Gincley wrote:
> > Sounds like you have a couple of issues happening there.
> >
> > I have no experience with Windows, but I've used the postgres backend
> > in linux for many years without issue.
> >
> > I also periodically save to the XML format as a backup.
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> > On Thu, 2020-05-07 at 00:07 -0500, Jeff wrote:
> >> This has probably been discussed here before but; I'm going ask
> >> anyway.
> >> Which do most people find more reliable with GNC, SQL or the default
> >> XML?  And are there any features I would lose other than the
> >> rollback
> >> ability with SQL?
> >>
> >> I'm getting tired of having to track down account and report issues
> >> every time Windoze 10 hiccups.  I use the default XML,
> >> uncompressed.
> >> One set of books has been corrupted several times, I'm assuming when
> >> Windoze just simply kills the GNC program out of the blue.  I have
> >> another set of books for a business that so far, knock on wood,  the
> >> only problem is sometimes various buttons have to be selected
> >> multiple
> >> times to work then all of the windows open in GNC blur while
> >> processing
> >> then go back to normal display.
> >>
> >> My computers are all networked and dual boot Windoze and Ubuntu, so
> >> I
> >> would need SQL on both sides if I switch over.  I'm leaning towards
> >> PostgreSQL (pro's, con's?  Suggestions?).
> >>
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
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> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> > .
>
> I like Greg's idea of periodically saving back to xml.  Had not thought
> of that.  I do prefer the uncompressed XML format because it is
> basically just one big text file, that makes it easier for me to do
> global search and replace if I have to.  And I'm going to have to, I
> wasn't thinking and moved some images that I had linked to
> transactions.  I've been toying with the idea of writing a companion
> product for the sole purpose of storing the images, then I don't have to
> worry about file names or locations, just switching windows.
>
> I want to say the data issue popped up in GNC 2.6(?) and happened again
> last week in version 3.8.  With every new release of GNC I do a complete
> uninstall of the old version before I upgrade to the next version of
> GNC. Windoze 10 is current on both machines.  And to my knowledge GNC is
> the only program I've had this problem with.  It could possibly be a
> windoze/virus software issue but I would expect it on both machines.
>
> I think I will give SQL a try and see how I like it.  I've always been
> more comfortable using databases than text files for indexed data
> storage anyway.
>
> --
> --JEffrey Black M.B.A.
>
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> 

Re: [GNC] XML vs SQL data integrity question

[GWB]

Have used sqlite3, postgresql, and xml on various machines (Windows 7,
Ubuntu, FreeBSD).  Windows 7 (with extended service for malware) does
fine with xml, but I have not had a problem with the sql backends.
sqlite was easier to set up as a backend than postgres, but postgres
(from other uses as a db) is probably the most powerful db you can use
as a backend.  But for gnucash, it's probably overkill.  Postgres is
also more complicated, and I haven't needed anything more than sqlite,
which is less complicated, handled well by most modern OS's, and just
seems to work.  But I'm guessing Postgres can do things with queries,
reporting and data manipulation that sqlite cannot.  If you do that
sort of thing, use Postgres.

Haven't gotten to Windows 10 or the latest Mac OS yet.  That's just a
matter of time, though.  Older versions of Ubuntu (16 and under)
seemed to have hiccups with the sql backend, so I suggest trying xml
when the OS is older.  My .xml file is probably getting too large
(about 65 megs) so at some point a sql backend will be necessary.  I
can say the xml files have usually (in my experience) taken
considerably longer to load and save, but that is expected.

If you go from gnucash 2 to 3, save several different versions if you
can (gnucash 2 gives you xml, mysql, sqlite3, postgres for "save as").
Or just do that on occasion anyway in addition to regular backups.

If Windows 10 isn't stable, then find some kind of install that is.
You probably need Windows for a lot of things, but try running a
virtualbox vm with Ubuntu or Windows 7 for gnucash.  You could boot
into Ubuntu and use Windows 10 as a virtual guest (that's what I do
most o the time, and it works quite well).  But as the other replies
point out, you need to fix the "hiccuping" sooner rather than later.
My guess is that Windows 10 (like just about all of the earlier
Windows releases) is fixable, but Microsoft takes it time doing that.

Gordon

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 4:29 PM David Cousens  wrote:
>
> Stu
>
> Have you trie Unison File synchronizer 
> (https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/) to synchronize the user stored
> data. Runs on UniX Windows MacOSX and uses SSH. It can be run with  a cron 
> job on Linux or scheduled in Windows to keep
> machines on a network synchronized. I only run it manually but it keeps all 
> my userfiles synched onseveral unixboxes and
> selected files to a Windows 10.
>
> David Cousens
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2020-05-07 at 11:37 -0400, Stu Perlman wrote:
> > I'm running MySQL for a GNC backend.  I switched about 4 months ago.  So
> > far, so good and I love the ability to have direct access to mostly
> > normalized data whenever I want.
> > Every so often, if I leave my computer idle for a long time I'll get a
> > failed to save to database error if GNC was left running - but that's my
> > only complaint.
> >
> > I am running GNC and MySQL on my Windows 10 system.  I recently set up an
> > Ubuntu system to see if I like that better than Windows for a personal
> > computer.  I have been able to access the GNC db from Ubuntu across my
> > home network, again trouble-free.  Running GNC on either Windows or Ubuntu
> > has been seamless as far as the data goes.  If I were going to keep both
> > environments around for the long term, I would probably want to figure out
> > how to share the non-database stuff between the two such as saved report
> > configurations, preferences, etc ...
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:10 AM Jeff  wrote:
> >
> > > This has probably been discussed here before but; I'm going ask anyway.
> > > Which do most people find more reliable with GNC, SQL or the default
> > > XML?  And are there any features I would lose other than the rollback
> > > ability with SQL?
> > >
> > > I'm getting tired of having to track down account and report issues
> > > every time Windoze 10 hiccups.  I use the default XML, uncompressed.
> > > One set of books has been corrupted several times, I'm assuming when
> > > Windoze just simply kills the GNC program out of the blue.  I have
> > > another set of books for a business that so far, knock on wood,  the
> > > only problem is sometimes various buttons have to be selected multiple
> > > times to work then all of the windows open in GNC blur while processing
> > > then go back to normal display.
> > >
> > > My computers are all networked and dual boot Windoze and Ubuntu, so I
> > > would need SQL on both sides if I switch over.  I'm leaning towards
> > > PostgreSQL (pro's, con's?  Suggestions?).
> > >
> > > --
> > > --JEffrey Black M.B.A.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > > -
> > > Please remember to CC 

Re: [GNC] Working with dates in Postgresql DB

[GWB]

Hmm, not able to get to the .sql files yet, but the xml has things like:



  2019-02-14 00:00:00 -0600

...
  
2014-08-05
...
  
2019-04-11 21:30:12 -0500
  

Still digging.

It would be hard to get rid of timestamps altogether, I think, and I'm
not sure if there is an alternative to UTC.  Timestamps are not quite
a data primitive, but gcc, bash, C++, and quite a few other shells and
compilers have it "cooked" into their libraries.  It's probably in the
old assembler compilers.  If ts:date is used for quotes, then it's
necessary for other reasons, right?  I don't use GnuCash for forex or
options, but someone might try that, in which case you need
timestamps.  The Perth to California traveler isn't trivial when it
comes to those markets.  They literally trade on the second over
several time zones.  That's not something I would try to track or
trade in GnuCash, but who knows, it may be reflected in the
accounting.

So gdate is derived from ts:date, or is it entered manually or from
the .ofx, .qfx and .qif files?  It looks like it has to come from the
DTPOSTED field in .ofx, or be manually entered.

More digging.

Gordon

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 12:46 AM D. via gnucash-user
 wrote:
>
> Was the problem that he entered variant dates, or that GnuCash reinterpreted 
> his Perth transactions to a new date? My point is this: if he entered 
> transactions in Perth for the 11th, and then returned to California, and they 
> showed the 10th, wouldn't his problem have been solved if GnuCash had stored 
> the local date time and then ignored the time zone?
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: John Ralls 
> Sent: Sat May 02 03:53:01 GMT+05:30 2020
> To: David H 
> Cc: "D." , "Eric H. Bowen via gnucash-user" 
> 
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Working with dates in Postgresql DB
>
> That's exactly what happened a few years ago to a guy from California who did 
> some updates while visiting New Zealand.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
> > On May 1, 2020, at 3:16 PM, David H  wrote:
> >
> > Might be a problem if you were in Perth on April 11 entering txns and then 
> > back in California on April 10 entering further txns using today's date ?  
> > i.e. if you travelled to a timezone that was still the previous day ?
> >
> > Cheers David H.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 2 May 2020 at 04:35, D. via gnucash-user  
> > wrote:
> > I understand that a lot of debate and discussion and heartache had gone 
> > into this, so I really don't mean to be a pain, but it would seem to me 
> > that if I entered April 10, 2020 for a transaction, and GnuCash then stored 
> > 2020-04-10 HH:MM:SS (where HH:MM:SS represents any arbitrary time), if 
> > GnuCash then ignored the time portion from that point forth, then I'd see 
> > April 10, 2020 no matter how many times I crossed the date line. If I'm in 
> > California on April 10, or in Perth on April 11, I'm presumably going to 
> > pick "today's" date for my transaction. The two dates would be different, 
> > even if the transactions were entered at the exact same time, but I could 
> > only see this as a potential problem for a business with offices in both 
> > cities.
> >
> > As I said, I don't remember all the details, but I'm sure there were solid 
> > reasons for choosing to take transaction dates and store them in UTC, to be 
> > converted back to some arbitrary time zone at a later time. It makes my 
> > head hurt, though.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: John Ralls 
> > Sent: Fri May 01 23:30:37 GMT+05:30 2020
> > To: "D." 
> > Cc: finf...@gmail.com, "D. via gnucash-user" 
> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Working with dates in Postgresql DB
> >
> > David,
> >
> > You're not thinking it through: It's about 11:00 on Friday 1 May here in 
> > California but it's 03:00 on Saturday 2 May in Western Australia. Chopping 
> > off the time doesn't solve anything, a point illustrated by Finfort when he 
> > pointed out that just changing the time on the errant dates would put them 
> > in the wrong day.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:24 PM, D.  wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reply. I do understand the challenges this poses-- both 
> > > from the perspective of managing it on a daily basis, and from that of 
> > > the difficulty of changing the underlying system. At least, conceptually!
> > >
> > > Is there any option to simply ignore the time portion in these 
> > > timestamps? It would seem to me that one could focus on that, and 
> > > simplify the process piece by piece. Of course, not being a programmer, 
> > > I'm just a silly voice in the wilderness.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > >  Original Message 
> > > From: John Ralls 
> > > Sent: Fri May 01 10:32:09 GMT+05:30 2020
> > > To: "D." 
> > > Cc: "finf...@gmail.com" , "D. via gnucash-user" 
> > > 
> > > Subject: Re: [GNC] Working with dates in Postgresql DB
> > >
> > > David,
> > >
> > > I don't 

Re: [GNC] Working with dates in Postgresql DB

[GWB]

10:59:00 UTC is a very clever fix, or "kludge" as some put it.  So
just using the bash shell:

$ date +%F-%Z # Format Strings %F with %Z for time zone
2020-04-30-CDT

This, of course, depends on locale on whatever system you're using.

You could even try:

$ date +%F-TZ=%Z-Week=%U-Day=%u
2020-04-30-TZ=CDT-Week=17-Day=4

But, of course, that's from a simple command line, and in GnuCash
dates are recorded either by direct input, or from .qfx, .ofx, .qif
files.  From .ofx files the field:

cat 202001JANb.ofx | grep DTPOSTED | less

Not sure what the various sql queries would do with this.

Gives a series list this:

2019123100
2019123100

Which must mean lots of institutions which allow .ofx imports probably
want to ignore the actual time, and just give a date.  But apparently
the only time allowed in the specification is 12am 0 Minutes 0
Seconds, or 00.  So maybe grep, awk or sed to give something like:

20191231105900
20191231105900

Is there something like a  ("Date only posted")?

Unix time (EPOCH) is indeed a strange beast, but Wikipedia does a
decent job explaining why.  Apparently UTC itself changed in 1971 from
the earlier version from 1961 (leap seconds, 32 bit integers, 60 herz
clocks from power frequency, etc.).  Getting rid of the time
altogether would do the trick.

I'm using the old .xml backend with a Windows VM with GnuCash 2.xx,
but I do have old mysql and postgres files from BSD and Mac.  I'll try
and play with those.  I'm not a developer, just a user, but who knows,
I've trimmed and munged time stamps for zfs snapshots and some of the
code may be similar.  And, as usual, many thanks to all the GnuCash
developers for all your work and generosity of time and help.

Gordon

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 3:26 PM John Ralls  wrote:
>
> We show no times at all. The smallest useful division of time in accounting 
> is a day.
>
> Unfortunately someone decided a long time ago to use unix time to represent 
> dates, probably because in 1998 that was what was readily available. 
> Naturally you want to display in local time, otherwise you have the problem 
> of "today" not being aligned with what you think it is. This design decision 
> has caused a great deal of pain over the years because people refuse to stay 
> put and so the meaning of "today" changes depending on where they are.
>
> A few years ago we worked out that 10:59:00 UTC has the same date in nearly 
> all time zones and set the time on the post_date timestamps to that value. 
> That fixes the changing-date problem for almost everyone, the exception being 
> timezones -11, +14, and +15. We adjust the 10:59:00 if you happen to be in 
> one of those timezones so that today will be what you think it is, but if you 
> then travel across the date line to a timezone more than 23 hours different 
> you'll see the dates on your transactions change.
>
> The right solution is to change the date representation to not use time so it 
> doesn't care about time zone, but that's a major change and so far nobody's 
> had the appetite to take it on.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
> > On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:06 PM, GWB  wrote:
> >
> > Curious about this.  So is the goal to show all times in UTC on
> > invoices along with local time?  I tend to default most things to UTC
> > (including local time on computers) and just display in some local
> > time if necessary.  If GMT is available as a time zone, I use that
> > (GMT is a timezone; UTC is not).  Last time I checked, GMT does not
> > change for DST (but some locales might try to use GMT with DST), and
> > displays the same as UTC.   Time zones like Tehran's also differ by 30
> > minutes, not 60, from adjacent time zones.  I think DST is silly, but
> > a fourth of the planet does not, so their call in their countries.
> >
> > Cyprus *might* be a special case, but probably not.  My assumption is
> > that the entire Island is in the same time zone, but I don't know what
> > you would get if you pinged a time server in Akrotiri or Dhekelia
> > (British Overseas Territories), which seems to be GMT +3 (during DST).
> > Moscow, Ankara, Sudan, Hungary, and quite a few others are not EEST,
> > but rather UTC +3/GMT +3, which results in the same time.
> >
> > Postgres does have a somewhat confusing way of handling timestamp
> > (timestamp without timezone) versus timestamptz (timestamp with time
> > zone):
> >
> > https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/2796/how-do-i-get-the-current-unix-timestamp-from-postgresql
> >
> > That applies when doing conversions to and from unix time; not sure if
> > it affects the situation here.
> >
> > Gordon
> >
> > On Thu, Apr

Re: [GNC] Working with dates in Postgresql DB

[GWB]

Curious about this.  So is the goal to show all times in UTC on
invoices along with local time?  I tend to default most things to UTC
(including local time on computers) and just display in some local
time if necessary.  If GMT is available as a time zone, I use that
(GMT is a timezone; UTC is not).  Last time I checked, GMT does not
change for DST (but some locales might try to use GMT with DST), and
displays the same as UTC.   Time zones like Tehran's also differ by 30
minutes, not 60, from adjacent time zones.  I think DST is silly, but
a fourth of the planet does not, so their call in their countries.

Cyprus *might* be a special case, but probably not.  My assumption is
that the entire Island is in the same time zone, but I don't know what
you would get if you pinged a time server in Akrotiri or Dhekelia
(British Overseas Territories), which seems to be GMT +3 (during DST).
Moscow, Ankara, Sudan, Hungary, and quite a few others are not EEST,
but rather UTC +3/GMT +3, which results in the same time.

Postgres does have a somewhat confusing way of handling timestamp
(timestamp without timezone) versus timestamptz (timestamp with time
zone):

https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/2796/how-do-i-get-the-current-unix-timestamp-from-postgresql

That applies when doing conversions to and from unix time; not sure if
it affects the situation here.

Gordon

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 2:19 PM John Ralls  wrote:
>
> GnuCash stores all dates as UTC but displays them as local, applying the 
> timezone rules for the date, not for today. So in EEST 2020-02-12 22:00:00 
> displays as 2020-02-13, 2020-06-12 21:00:00 displays as 2020-06-13, but 
> 2020-02-21 21:00:00 displays as 2020-02-21.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
> > On Apr 30, 2020, at 11:42 AM, finf...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > It is not just adding one day, it depends on the time.
> >
> > Looks like time 00:00:00 is the same date, not next.
> >
> > From 21:00:00 is the next date in most cases, but I did not check all 
> > transactions manually =)
> >
> > How the program converts this wrong dates to the correct ones in its GUI?
> >
> > I believe I have found a correct way to convert all the dates including 
> > wrong ones to correct dates in Postgresql (pgAdmin 4):
> >
> >
> > date(t.post_date AT TIME ZONE 'UTC' AT TIME ZONE 'EEST') AS 
> > DATE_AT_timezone_EEST
> >
> > EEST is a correct zone in my case. CEST does not work.
> >
> > The transactions.post_date type is timestamp without timezone: 2017-12-31 
> > 21:00:00
> >
> > t.post_date AT TIME ZONE 'EEST' AS timestamp_AT_timezone_EEST gives 
> > 2017-12-31 21:00:00+3
> >
> > date(t.post_date AT TIME ZONE 'UTC' AT TIME ZONE 'EEST') AS 
> > DATE_AT_timezone_EEST gives 2018-01-01
> >
> > Looks strange but works.
> >
> > 2.
> >
> > There are only 3 transactions with 22:00:00 not connected with invoices.
> >
> > There is only 1 transaction with 21:00:00 not connected with invoices.
> >
> > Thinking how to find them...
> >
> >
> >
> > On 30/04/2020 21:25, John Ralls wrote:
> >> Hmm, true. Should be always, since you're in a time zone east of the prime 
> >> meridian. So you also want to increment the day on those. I think it would 
> >> be safest to do it in two queries, the first one being
> >>
> >> update transactions post_date = post_date + interval '1 day' where 
> >> post_date::TIME != '10:59:00';
> >>
> >> and the second to update the time as before.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> John Ralls
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Finfort  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If post_date is 2017-12-31 22:00 or 23:00, it means (sometimes?) the real 
> >>> date is 2018-01-01. At least in cases where I manually checked the 
> >>> invoices.
> >>> Setting all times to 10:59:00 will give wrong dates in the program.
> >>> Now they are displayed correctly in the program somehow...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Apr 30, 2020 at 20:59,  wrote:
> 
>  I don't think that's necessary.
> 
>  To fix the wrong times just do an update query, something like
> 
>  update transactions set post_date::TIME = 10:59:00 where post_date::TIME 
>  != 10:59:00;
> 
>  I don't know Postgresql's date-time functions well enough to know if 
>  that syntax works, you might have to adjust it a bit. You might create a 
>  table with a DATETIME column and put a couple of rows in it to test 
>  against while you tweak. Make sure that GnuCash isn't connected to the 
>  database when you run that.
> 
>  Regards,
>  John Ralls
> 
> 
> > On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Finfort  wrote:
> >  How can I help?
> >  I can send you my gnucash file if it helps to find all the bugs.
> >  And how can I change now my wrong dates in transactions?
> >
> >> On Apr 30, 2020 at 20:41,  wrote:
> >>  Yeah, it's definitely a bug. I easily found the wrong code and I'll 
> >> fix it for 3.903 and 3.11.
> >>  The query actually accounts for only 543 of the 547 wrong times, so 
> >> 

Re: [GNC] since Catalina, unable to open gnucash

[GWB]

If anyone wants to experiment with this, it is possible to selectively
enable and disable specifics parts of SIP:

https://eclecticlight.co/2016/05/03/sip-and-rootless-protecting-more-than-just-system-files/

https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/17452

To enable SIP but without filesystem protection:

csrutil enable --without fs

That would be safer than disabling SIP entirely.  You can play with
the options and see if they make any difference.  The option above is
the only one I can see that might affect gnucash, but who knows, some
kexts (signed and unsigned) might also affect permissions (again,
unlikely).

That type of behaviour (selectively enable, disable) is like some
secure systems (SELinux extensions is one type) used elsewhere.

Don't forget to clear and enable when done:

# csrutil clear

# csrutil enable (or not, or whatever option you like)

Gordon

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 5:53 PM GWB  wrote:
>
> Apple OS X combined two types of kernels, bsd and mach, but is
> (according to some FreeBSD kernel developers) progressively removing
> the mach kernel components.  This may be due to their possible shift
> to ARM processors for computers (same family of processors as their
> other devices).  But Apple does not, that I can see, adhere to any
> particular kind of standards for directories, user or otherwise.
> "/opt" on OS X is often a hack to get alternative package managers to
> work (like brew and others).  This also applies to the use of
> permissions.  A very limited exposure to Catalina leads me to believe
> they have attempted to secure and harden their permissions scheme, but
> I can't tell if they (and SIP) follow the pattern of bsd's, vax/vms,
> solaris, etc.  As you point out, disabling SIP is probably a bad idea,
> but nice of Apple to provide csrutil anyway.
>
> So give Apple time and they may more closely resemble bsd's ("other
> bsd's"? who knows) at some point.  Apple, like FreeBSD, is POSIX
> compliant, but FreeBSD has a compatibility layer that handles linux
> binaries (pretty simple: kldload linux, kldload linux64, ten necessary
> libraries).  I don't think Apple makes it that easy.
>
> Does Catalina no longer provide a disk utility option to "fix" the
> permissions?  Or does SIP obviate that?  I notice that Catalina (maybe
> back to El Capitan) has (characteristically) changed to a disk
> container system without calling it lvm2.
>
> Blame AT for the less than clear descent into unix, bsd, solaris,
> linux, etc.  They litigated against BSD, the University of Califorina
> Regents fought them off, and now, technically, only AT and licensees
> can use "unix" as a name.  BSD (same code base) went on to start the
> wonderful world of OS's we see now.
>
> Gordon
>
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM John Ralls  wrote:
> >
> > Not only that, while Darwin (the underlying unix core of all Apple 
> > operating systems) is BSD Unix, it is *not* Linux and doesn't subscribe to 
> > the Linux Foundation or Free Desktop standards.
> >
> > Not that that matters. I just created /opt on my Mac running Catalina, 
> > changed the privs to 777, and saved-as then loaded a book with GnuCash. I 
> > had at first set GnuCash to have full-disk access, but revoked it and was 
> > still able to load the file, so whatever the OP's problem is it isn't 
> > having the file in /opt, nor is it about SIP which I leave enabled. 
> > Disabling SIP is only needed as a last resort when doing something that 
> > requires changing the library load paths (e.g. using $DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH) 
> > with a system program (e.g. bash). It's vastly safer to copy the system 
> > program into a user directory (I use ~/.local/bin) so that SIP won't mess 
> > with it. Regardless, it has nothing at all to do with users running GnuCash.
> >
> > A far more likely cause of the OP's problem is that permissions on /opt 
> > have gotten changed so that he no longer can write to the directory. I 
> > would expect that if he knows how to create /opt he also knows how to fix 
> > that as well as to ensure that it's backed up with Time Machine and 
> > whatever cloud backup service he uses.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> > P.S. Bruce Schuck, when you reply to a digest please remember to change the 
> > subject back to the original for the particular message to which you're 
> > replying.
> >
> > > On Jan 26, 2020, at 9:58 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
> > >  wrote:
> > >
> > > But /opt isn’t for user data files according to that standard. The user’s 
> > > own data should still be under their /users tree.
> > >
> > > For example, you could build LibreOffice an

Re: [GNC] since Catalina, unable to open gnucash

[GWB]

Apple OS X combined two types of kernels, bsd and mach, but is
(according to some FreeBSD kernel developers) progressively removing
the mach kernel components.  This may be due to their possible shift
to ARM processors for computers (same family of processors as their
other devices).  But Apple does not, that I can see, adhere to any
particular kind of standards for directories, user or otherwise.
"/opt" on OS X is often a hack to get alternative package managers to
work (like brew and others).  This also applies to the use of
permissions.  A very limited exposure to Catalina leads me to believe
they have attempted to secure and harden their permissions scheme, but
I can't tell if they (and SIP) follow the pattern of bsd's, vax/vms,
solaris, etc.  As you point out, disabling SIP is probably a bad idea,
but nice of Apple to provide csrutil anyway.

So give Apple time and they may more closely resemble bsd's ("other
bsd's"? who knows) at some point.  Apple, like FreeBSD, is POSIX
compliant, but FreeBSD has a compatibility layer that handles linux
binaries (pretty simple: kldload linux, kldload linux64, ten necessary
libraries).  I don't think Apple makes it that easy.

Does Catalina no longer provide a disk utility option to "fix" the
permissions?  Or does SIP obviate that?  I notice that Catalina (maybe
back to El Capitan) has (characteristically) changed to a disk
container system without calling it lvm2.

Blame AT for the less than clear descent into unix, bsd, solaris,
linux, etc.  They litigated against BSD, the University of Califorina
Regents fought them off, and now, technically, only AT and licensees
can use "unix" as a name.  BSD (same code base) went on to start the
wonderful world of OS's we see now.

Gordon

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM John Ralls  wrote:
>
> Not only that, while Darwin (the underlying unix core of all Apple operating 
> systems) is BSD Unix, it is *not* Linux and doesn't subscribe to the Linux 
> Foundation or Free Desktop standards.
>
> Not that that matters. I just created /opt on my Mac running Catalina, 
> changed the privs to 777, and saved-as then loaded a book with GnuCash. I had 
> at first set GnuCash to have full-disk access, but revoked it and was still 
> able to load the file, so whatever the OP's problem is it isn't having the 
> file in /opt, nor is it about SIP which I leave enabled. Disabling SIP is 
> only needed as a last resort when doing something that requires changing the 
> library load paths (e.g. using $DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH) with a system program 
> (e.g. bash). It's vastly safer to copy the system program into a user 
> directory (I use ~/.local/bin) so that SIP won't mess with it. Regardless, it 
> has nothing at all to do with users running GnuCash.
>
> A far more likely cause of the OP's problem is that permissions on /opt have 
> gotten changed so that he no longer can write to the directory. I would 
> expect that if he knows how to create /opt he also knows how to fix that as 
> well as to ensure that it's backed up with Time Machine and whatever cloud 
> backup service he uses.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
> P.S. Bruce Schuck, when you reply to a digest please remember to change the 
> subject back to the original for the particular message to which you're 
> replying.
>
> > On Jan 26, 2020, at 9:58 AM, Adrien Monteleone 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > But /opt isn’t for user data files according to that standard. The user’s 
> > own data should still be under their /users tree.
> >
> > For example, you could build LibreOffice and store it in /opt, but your 
> > individual documents would be under /users. (/home in the linux tree)
> >
> > I’d say the simpler and safer solution (rather than disabling SIP) is to 
> > relocate the data files to the /Users area where there are no permissions 
> > issues.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Adrien
> >
> >> On Jan 26, 2020 w5d26, at 11:46 AM, Bruce Schuck 
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 1/26/20 09:00, D  wrote:
> >>
> >>> And yet, still unanswered is why a user would put their data files into 
> >>> /opt in the first place...
> >>
> >> Because OSX is under the hood is very similar to *Nix and BSD systems.
> >> Those who are putting their data files under /opt are probably doing so
> >> to follow the Linux Hierarchy Standard. As a long time *Nix geek (first
> >> introduced to Unix on Gould computers running Gould UTX and AT 3B2
> >> systems running AT Sys V sometime around 1986/1987). Simple answer,
> >> because they can and they want to. :)
> >>
> >> See http://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/index.html for
> >> reference.
> >>
> >> I mentioned trying "csrutil disable" because I have not yet updated to
> >> Catalina. Seems it breaks a few things at the office, mainly Cisco
> >> Anyconnect. Worth a shot I thought. But as someone else mentioned, Apple
> >> has added layer of filesystem complexity that could be affecting access
> >> to /opt. I found this:
> >> 

Re: [GNC] Gnucash on MacOs Catalina

[GWB]

Chronosync is another app that needed some work to integrate smoothly
with Catalina.  This excerpt from their email to users explains:

<<
The Catalina Split
Catalina introduces a new APFS feature called ‘Volume Groups’. Under
Catalina, Apple takes advantage of this ability and splits the boot
volume into two components: System and Data. The System volume is
read-only and contains all the operating system files that should
never change during use of the computer. The Data volume contains
everything else, including the user’s home folders. Through a new
Apple feature known as firmlinks, the two volumes are linked together
to appear as one volume to the user, so you will only see one drive on
your Mac. However, there really are two distinct boot volumes mounted.
You can see the two volumes using Disk Utility or by mounting the
drive on an older macOS. If running a bootable backup, we strongly
recommend starting fresh with a new backup volume and not to copy over
your old bootable backup volume. Read the ChronoSync Catalina Tech
Note for all the details.
>>

This may have no relevance at all, but if your version of GnuCash
"needs" to alter a specific file in the System folder (which is
doubtful, but possible) Catalina may be using a "hard link" instead of
the underlying file.  The devs would know.

I'm not sure, but it looks like Apple is re-inventing the old LVM and
calling it something different.  It's usually good to separate boot OS
from data (Unix welcomes Apple to 1998!), but this might not be the
way to do it.  Better to just mount them in separate LVM
containers/volumes, and snapshot them.

What type of CPU does system information report on your mac?  The
error message "Bad CPU type in executable" might be Catalina seeing a
CPU call from GnuCash (amd64 bit i7, usually) as something else.

Gordon

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:19 PM John Ralls  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 9, 2019, at 1:09 PM, gnuc...@pelchar.no-ip.org wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm having trouble starting gnucash on Catalina. Here's the message I get
> > from the command line:
> >
> > /Volumes/Macintosh HD/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash: line
> > 95: /Volumes/Macintosh
> > HD/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash-bin: Bad CPU type in
> > executable
> > /Volumes/Macintosh HD/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash: line
> > 95: /Volumes/Macintosh
> > HD/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash-bin: Undefined error: 0
> >
> > Anybody has a clue?
>
> What version of GnuCash?
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
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Re: [GNC] Gnucash on MacOs Catalina

[GWB]

I'm not a dev, but I do know that Catalina (OS X 10.15) is having
compatibility problems with a number of apps that worked on OS X 10.14.
Webroot just discovered their app won't work on Catalina.

Assuming all the 32 bit libraries are now 64 bit in Gnucash 3.7 this may be
a false alarm from the Catalina OS.  But it still won't launch.

Can you rollback to 10.14 using Apple's tmutil app? The gui is Time
Machine. Apple supposedly snapshots the prior OS when you upgrade to the
next.

I just got the upgrade message on my Mac this evening but declined after
seeing the emails from webroot so mine still has 10.14.

Let's see if anyone on the list has gnucash working on Catalina and also if
the devs have any ideas on this.

Gordon

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 7:59 PM gnuc...@pelchar.no-ip.org <
gnuc...@pelchar.no-ip.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm having trouble starting gnucash on Catalina. Here's the message I get
> from the command line:
>
> /Volumes/Macintosh HD/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash: line
> 95: /Volumes/Macintosh
> HD/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash-bin: Bad CPU type in
> executable
> /Volumes/Macintosh HD/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash: line
> 95: /Volumes/Macintosh
> HD/Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash-bin: Undefined error: 0
>
> Anybody has a clue?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> ___
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Re: [GNC] GnuCash 2.6.12 aborts (core dump) on Ubuntu 16 "hash table assertion failed"

[GWB]

Just figured it out.  The gnucash data file loads more quickly when it
is located on the C: drive itself, instead of being on a shared folder
elsewhere.  So I moved the .xml file from the VirtualBox shared folder
on Ubuntu 16 to the C: drive in the Windows 7 VM.  The reports also
load more quickly.

I don't expect it to load the file too quickly.  The uncompressed xml
is about 61 megs.  That's quite a bit of data.  I don't know what kind
of cache file would speed that up, but this is good enough.

I will stick with the uncompressed xml for now.  From the
documentation, it's easier to replay transactions with the xml, and
more difficult with the sqlite3 format.  I can always go back to an
earlier version from a snapshot if the xml replay fails or does not
rollback.

It also appears that the sqlite3 format is becoming ubiquitous, and
even web browsers appear to be using it.  But it might not be as
robust as the postgresql files I've used.  postgresql has a good way
of rolling back through a transaction history within the DB itself,
but I'm not sure how to do that with sqlite3.  So the xml text file,
uncompressed, with autosave every 5 minutes, and save the log files is
what I will do (and with zfs snapshots on top of that).

Let's just call that the "super paranoid" setting to avoid data loss
(also with off site backup).

The developers here have done great work, thank you all.  It now looks
as if FreeBSD 10 has GnuCash 3.7:

https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/ports.cgi?query=gnucash=all

Is there enough interest in running GnuCash on a BSD system to try
this?  I have at least one server I can use to try it out.  I'm happy
to be a guinea pig for that effort.  Otherwise I'll stick with the
Windows version for now; that seems to be the largest percentage of
the user base.

Gordon





On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 5:01 PM GWB  wrote:
>
> OK; Outstanding, this works like a charm.  On Windows 7 Pro (64 bit)
> the GnuCash installation created:
>
> C:\Users\$USER\.gnucash
>
> There is also:
>
> C:\Users\$USER\.AppData\Local... \LocalLow ...\Roaming
>
> When I copy the files from the linux installation at:
>
> $user/.gnucash to C:\Users\$USER\.gnucash, it does indeed find the
> Saved Report Configurations.
>
> My assumption is that Windows 8 and 10 probably will set up the
> .gnucash config directory in:
>
> C:\Users\$USER\.AppData\Roaming, or Local, because 8 and 10 seem to
> behave that way (I don't know why).
>
> I can confirm that the flatpak migrates:
>
> $user/.gnucash
>
> to:
>
> ~/.var/app/org.gnucash.GnuCash
>
> It does the migration when installing the flatpak by:
>
> flatpak-install or.gnucash.GnuGash (or, depending on the type of
> shell, just flatpak-install gnucash)
>
> The flatpak has some distinct advantages.  One drawback is that
> libraries are not dynamic, static or even linked, but appear to be
> "bundled" into the installed app binary itself.  But that's also the
> advantage, when linked libraries on linux machines are not found, or
> are incompatible.  Larger installed binary, fewer dependency problems.
>
> FreeBSD and linux have cross-compilers for each other, so I might try
> the flatpak again when I have FreeBSD 10 or Ubuntu 18 installed.
> Again, the flatpak looks and works fine.  Only the window
> configuration (so far) is the problem with the flatpak.
>
> Is there an advantage to using GnuCash 3 on Windows 8 or 10?  Windows
> 7 is showing it's age, and it's taking some time to load reports, open
> files, etc.
>
> Mange Tak,
>
> Gordon
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 3:33 AM Geert Janssens
>  wrote:
> >
> > Op maandag 16 september 2019 05:30:16 CEST schreef John Ralls:
> > > Gordon,
> > >
> > > GnuCash files are completely portable between operating systems. See
> > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Backup for the details of which files need 
> > > to
> > > be copied.
> > >
> > > The code to upgrade the saved reports and similar stuff kicks is driven by
> > > the location of the files, so copy your 2.6 config files to the 2.6
> > > locations (generally $HOME/.gnucash). Make sure the new locations
> > > ($HOME/.config/gnucash on Linux, $HOME/AppData/Roaming/GnuCash on Windows)
> > > don't exist; if they do GnuCash will decide that the config is already
> > > migrated. Start up GnuCash and everything should properly migrate.
> > >
> > > That said, flatpak installs are a bit problematic for migration. They're
> > > seriously sandboxed and I'm not sure that we've figured out everything
> > > needed to work around the sandboxing.
> >
> > We don't have to do anything special wrt to the sandbox as it won't affect 
> > the
> > migrat

Re: [GNC] GnuCash 2.6.12 aborts (core dump) on Ubuntu 16 "hash table assertion failed"

[GWB]

OK; Outstanding, this works like a charm.  On Windows 7 Pro (64 bit)
the GnuCash installation created:

C:\Users\$USER\.gnucash

There is also:

C:\Users\$USER\.AppData\Local... \LocalLow ...\Roaming

When I copy the files from the linux installation at:

$user/.gnucash to C:\Users\$USER\.gnucash, it does indeed find the
Saved Report Configurations.

My assumption is that Windows 8 and 10 probably will set up the
.gnucash config directory in:

C:\Users\$USER\.AppData\Roaming, or Local, because 8 and 10 seem to
behave that way (I don't know why).

I can confirm that the flatpak migrates:

$user/.gnucash

to:

~/.var/app/org.gnucash.GnuCash

It does the migration when installing the flatpak by:

flatpak-install or.gnucash.GnuGash (or, depending on the type of
shell, just flatpak-install gnucash)

The flatpak has some distinct advantages.  One drawback is that
libraries are not dynamic, static or even linked, but appear to be
"bundled" into the installed app binary itself.  But that's also the
advantage, when linked libraries on linux machines are not found, or
are incompatible.  Larger installed binary, fewer dependency problems.

FreeBSD and linux have cross-compilers for each other, so I might try
the flatpak again when I have FreeBSD 10 or Ubuntu 18 installed.
Again, the flatpak looks and works fine.  Only the window
configuration (so far) is the problem with the flatpak.

Is there an advantage to using GnuCash 3 on Windows 8 or 10?  Windows
7 is showing it's age, and it's taking some time to load reports, open
files, etc.

Mange Tak,

Gordon


On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 3:33 AM Geert Janssens
 wrote:
>
> Op maandag 16 september 2019 05:30:16 CEST schreef John Ralls:
> > Gordon,
> >
> > GnuCash files are completely portable between operating systems. See
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Backup for the details of which files need to
> > be copied.
> >
> > The code to upgrade the saved reports and similar stuff kicks is driven by
> > the location of the files, so copy your 2.6 config files to the 2.6
> > locations (generally $HOME/.gnucash). Make sure the new locations
> > ($HOME/.config/gnucash on Linux, $HOME/AppData/Roaming/GnuCash on Windows)
> > don't exist; if they do GnuCash will decide that the config is already
> > migrated. Start up GnuCash and everything should properly migrate.
> >
> > That said, flatpak installs are a bit problematic for migration. They're
> > seriously sandboxed and I'm not sure that we've figured out everything
> > needed to work around the sandboxing.
>
> We don't have to do anything special wrt to the sandbox as it won't affect the
> migration logic (just tested).
>
> The flatpak version of gnucash will still search for the old configuration in
> $HOME/.gnucash (that is, not sandboxed)
> It will migrate this to locations inside the sandbox though. So make sure the
> following locations don't exist if you want the migration to be triggered:
> $HOME/.var/app/org.gnucash.GnuCash/data/gnucash
> $HOME/.var/app/org.gnucash.GnuCash/config/gnucash
>
> Regards,
>
> Geert
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Are insurance proceeds income?

[GWB]

Again, no tax advice here, but I tend to look for a reporting form
that goes to some kind of governmental unit, and then I check the tax
software (I use CCH) for some checkbox or other items for "loss
payouts", "insurance loss payments", etc.  It might be something for
form 4868.  But that's not advice; it's just a fuzzy memory.

Common sense and reason would dictate that if the insurance payments
are taxable, then the loss would be deductible.  But that might be too
rational.

So ask some kind of tax professional.  CPA's tend to be very
expensive, but you might find a tax preparation office that might have
a small fee to answer that kind of question.  I would wonder, since
insurance payouts occur due to some kind of loss, if it is reportable
only to the extent that the loss is reflected in the tax return (i.e.,
a deductible loss of inventory, rental property, etc.).

Also ask the insurance company if they have a form of some kind on
which the proceeds are reported.

If you are in the US, you could look at this page on the IRS web site:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/top-10-tips-for-deducting-losses-from-a-disaster

But of course it's all clear as mud.  Here's the disclaimer at the top
of that web page:

<<
This is an archival or historical document and may not reflect current
law, policies or procedures.
>>

That page also links to form 4868 and schedule A.

I would go ask a tax preparation office, and see if they can advise
you for a fee.  In the US, they won't give you an "opinion", because
that is considered a "covered opinion" in IRS lingo.  So all you want
is just a little advice.

Gordon

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:39 PM Stephen M. Butler  wrote:
>
> On 9/16/19 5:38 PM, orn...@tutanota.com wrote:
> > Are insurance proceeds income? If not, how do you characterize an insurance 
> > payout when they send you a check?
>
> The real question is "Is it taxable?" to which the answer varies
> according to your taxing authority.
>
>
> I have always considered it "income" but I know of others who think it
> is a "return of premiums paid".  Certainly it is also an offset against
> a "loss".
>
> >
> > I've seen a reference online to using accounts receivable against lowered 
> > value of inventory, but that approach doesn't seem to apply to a homeowner 
> > who has storm damage or a fire.
> >
>
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Re: [GNC] GnuCash 2.6.12 aborts (core dump) on Ubuntu 16 "hash table assertion failed"

[GWB]

Hello, John,

I'm up and running on Windows 7 in a VirtualBox host, which should
work because that's the same machine which runs the tax and compliance
software (CCH).  I'm turning compression off for now, and saving it as
an xml file without the gzip.  I'll try to transfer over my reports
from the Ubuntu machine to the Windows, for which I'm hoping there is
a tutorial.  Apparently scm is causing some difficulty?  I was able to
get the flatpak for 3.7 running on Ubuntu 16, but it reported many
errors when translating scm.  That must be from very old report
configurations, I'm hoping.  I only need the saved report
configurations in GnuCash itself, which I'm guessing must be in
USER/.gnucash/saved-reports.  Unfortunately the window configurations
for gnucash within the app launched from flatpak don't seem to work.
The "find" window cuts off the top search field.

If I can't find out how to migrate from linux to Windows 7, I'll send
another email to the list.

Thanks,

Gordon

On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 6:46 PM GWB  wrote:
>
> Great, thank you, that helps.  This is probably also a problem with
> gnucash 2.6.12 on ubuntu 16.  When I now launch gnucash --nofile
> --debug it appears to hang on the opening screen and does not complete
> launch, so there is no menu to open files.  My guess is that something
> went wrong in upgrading a dependency, perhaps sqlite3, and 2.16.12 is
> not going to respond now (i.e,. the sqlite3 upgrade is a "feature" to
> all the other dependencies, and a "bug" only to gnucash).  The Windows
> version of 2.16.12 probably did what you are describing.  It opened
> the sqlite3 files, did the database changes, and then allowed me to
> save it as xml.  I'm not going to try to debug gnucash 2.6.12 and
> sqlite3 on Ubuntu 16 if I can avoid it.  An upgrade to Ubuntu 18 is
> probably inevitable sooner rather than later, given the life cycle of
> the OS, and guncash 3 also looks necessary at this point.
>
> So will my reports on Ubuntu from gnucash 2.6 be automatically
> available in gnucash 3?  Any particular type of voodoo needed to make
> that happen?
>
> Again, you guys rock.
>
> Gordon Bynum
>
> On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 4:59 PM John Ralls  wrote:
> >
> > The XML file is (optionally, see Preferences>General) compressed with gzip.
> >
> > You might try reopening the database and see if it still takes 20 minutes. 
> > ISTR that there was a database upgrade somewhere around 2.6.12 and if so it 
> > would take a while to create the new tables, copy all of the records over, 
> > and clean up.
> >
> > On Windows you can either run GnuCash from a shell window (CMD or 
> > Powershell both work) with the path and any options, e.g.
> >   "C:\Program Files (x86)\gnucash\bin\gnucash.exe" --debug --nofile
> > or if you want those options more permanently you can edit the command in 
> > the shortcut.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 13, 2019, at 8:11 PM, GWB  wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, will do.  This is interesting.  I moved the file to a Windows 7
> > > machine, and opened it with GnuCash 2.6.21.  It did read the sqlite3
> > > file, but it took a long time, probably 20 minutes or so.  After it
> > > opened, I saved it as an xml file.  GnuCash does open the .xml file
> > > more quickly, so perhaps I should stick with that format.  My
> > > assumption is that Windows GnuCash reads and writes to sql formats
> > > without installing those dependencies directly.
> > >
> > > So how do I start GnuCash in Windows using the --nofile --debug
> > > options?  It appears to always try to open the last opened file.
> > >
> > > I also notice the xml file is much, much smaller than the sqlite3
> > > file.  The xml is 4.6 Megs, and the sqlite3 file is 65 megs.  This is
> > > a file with many years, going back to 2009, but the data all appears
> > > to be there.  That's not a bad feature, if it still has all the data.
> > > And if xml it allows transaction "replays" or rollbacks, then great.
> > > I'll stick with it.  I'm a fan of data in db formats, but not when the
> > > older xml format functions without errors.
> > >
> > > GnuCash 3 it is.  I'll install the latest on Ubuntu and Windows and
> > > see how it does with this xml file.
> > >
> > > Is there a file parser or checker that can correct errors in an
> > > account file?  I should give that a whirl and see what it finds.
> > >
> > > Thanks again, you guys rock,
> > >
> > > Gordon
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 9:59 PM John Ralls  wro

Re: [GNC] GnuCash 2.6.12 aborts (core dump) on Ubuntu 16 "hash table assertion failed"

[GWB]

Great, thank you, that helps.  This is probably also a problem with
gnucash 2.6.12 on ubuntu 16.  When I now launch gnucash --nofile
--debug it appears to hang on the opening screen and does not complete
launch, so there is no menu to open files.  My guess is that something
went wrong in upgrading a dependency, perhaps sqlite3, and 2.16.12 is
not going to respond now (i.e,. the sqlite3 upgrade is a "feature" to
all the other dependencies, and a "bug" only to gnucash).  The Windows
version of 2.16.12 probably did what you are describing.  It opened
the sqlite3 files, did the database changes, and then allowed me to
save it as xml.  I'm not going to try to debug gnucash 2.6.12 and
sqlite3 on Ubuntu 16 if I can avoid it.  An upgrade to Ubuntu 18 is
probably inevitable sooner rather than later, given the life cycle of
the OS, and guncash 3 also looks necessary at this point.

So will my reports on Ubuntu from gnucash 2.6 be automatically
available in gnucash 3?  Any particular type of voodoo needed to make
that happen?

Again, you guys rock.

Gordon Bynum

On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 4:59 PM John Ralls  wrote:
>
> The XML file is (optionally, see Preferences>General) compressed with gzip.
>
> You might try reopening the database and see if it still takes 20 minutes. 
> ISTR that there was a database upgrade somewhere around 2.6.12 and if so it 
> would take a while to create the new tables, copy all of the records over, 
> and clean up.
>
> On Windows you can either run GnuCash from a shell window (CMD or Powershell 
> both work) with the path and any options, e.g.
>   "C:\Program Files (x86)\gnucash\bin\gnucash.exe" --debug --nofile
> or if you want those options more permanently you can edit the command in the 
> shortcut.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
> > On Sep 13, 2019, at 8:11 PM, GWB  wrote:
> >
> > OK, will do.  This is interesting.  I moved the file to a Windows 7
> > machine, and opened it with GnuCash 2.6.21.  It did read the sqlite3
> > file, but it took a long time, probably 20 minutes or so.  After it
> > opened, I saved it as an xml file.  GnuCash does open the .xml file
> > more quickly, so perhaps I should stick with that format.  My
> > assumption is that Windows GnuCash reads and writes to sql formats
> > without installing those dependencies directly.
> >
> > So how do I start GnuCash in Windows using the --nofile --debug
> > options?  It appears to always try to open the last opened file.
> >
> > I also notice the xml file is much, much smaller than the sqlite3
> > file.  The xml is 4.6 Megs, and the sqlite3 file is 65 megs.  This is
> > a file with many years, going back to 2009, but the data all appears
> > to be there.  That's not a bad feature, if it still has all the data.
> > And if xml it allows transaction "replays" or rollbacks, then great.
> > I'll stick with it.  I'm a fan of data in db formats, but not when the
> > older xml format functions without errors.
> >
> > GnuCash 3 it is.  I'll install the latest on Ubuntu and Windows and
> > see how it does with this xml file.
> >
> > Is there a file parser or checker that can correct errors in an
> > account file?  I should give that a whirl and see what it finds.
> >
> > Thanks again, you guys rock,
> >
> > Gordon
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 9:59 PM John Ralls  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 13, 2019, at 11:53 AM, GWB  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello, GnuCash Users,
> >>>
> >>> Gnucash will begin to start, then abort (crash) when launched, using
> >>> normal startup or gnucash --nofile --debug.  Output from terminal is:
> >>>
> >>> $ gnucash --nofile --debug
> >>> Found Finance::Quote version 1.38
> >>> **
> >>> GLib:ERROR:/build/glib2.0-pjKWYQ/glib2.0-2.48.2/./glib/ghash.c:373:g_hash_table_lookup_node:
> >>> assertion failed: (hash_table->ref_count > 0)
> >>> Aborted (core dumped)
> >>>
> >>> So this is some kind of hash table assertion failure?  I have the
> >>> gnucash.trace and apport bug reports as well, but before I send them I
> >>> thought I would ask if someone else has seen this.  I can rollback to
> >>> an earlier version of the file, but I would like to get this
> >>> particular version working now.
> >>>
> >>> I might also copy the file to a Windows machine, and install GnuCash
> >>> there.  Or, possible, copy and upgrade to GnuCash 3, and then try to
> >>> figure out how to move my reports.
> >>>
> >>> Any 

Re: [GNC] GnuCash 2.6.12 aborts (core dump) on Ubuntu 16 "hash table assertion failed"

[GWB]

OK, will do.  This is interesting.  I moved the file to a Windows 7
machine, and opened it with GnuCash 2.6.21.  It did read the sqlite3
file, but it took a long time, probably 20 minutes or so.  After it
opened, I saved it as an xml file.  GnuCash does open the .xml file
more quickly, so perhaps I should stick with that format.  My
assumption is that Windows GnuCash reads and writes to sql formats
without installing those dependencies directly.

So how do I start GnuCash in Windows using the --nofile --debug
options?  It appears to always try to open the last opened file.

I also notice the xml file is much, much smaller than the sqlite3
file.  The xml is 4.6 Megs, and the sqlite3 file is 65 megs.  This is
a file with many years, going back to 2009, but the data all appears
to be there.  That's not a bad feature, if it still has all the data.
And if xml it allows transaction "replays" or rollbacks, then great.
I'll stick with it.  I'm a fan of data in db formats, but not when the
older xml format functions without errors.

GnuCash 3 it is.  I'll install the latest on Ubuntu and Windows and
see how it does with this xml file.

Is there a file parser or checker that can correct errors in an
account file?  I should give that a whirl and see what it finds.

Thanks again, you guys rock,

Gordon

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 9:59 PM John Ralls  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 13, 2019, at 11:53 AM, GWB  wrote:
> >
> > Hello, GnuCash Users,
> >
> > Gnucash will begin to start, then abort (crash) when launched, using
> > normal startup or gnucash --nofile --debug.  Output from terminal is:
> >
> > $ gnucash --nofile --debug
> > Found Finance::Quote version 1.38
> > **
> > GLib:ERROR:/build/glib2.0-pjKWYQ/glib2.0-2.48.2/./glib/ghash.c:373:g_hash_table_lookup_node:
> > assertion failed: (hash_table->ref_count > 0)
> > Aborted (core dumped)
> >
> > So this is some kind of hash table assertion failure?  I have the
> > gnucash.trace and apport bug reports as well, but before I send them I
> > thought I would ask if someone else has seen this.  I can rollback to
> > an earlier version of the file, but I would like to get this
> > particular version working now.
> >
> > I might also copy the file to a Windows machine, and install GnuCash
> > there.  Or, possible, copy and upgrade to GnuCash 3, and then try to
> > figure out how to move my reports.
> >
> > Any help is greatly appreciated!
> >
>
> It's basically a use-after-free situation.
>
> We're not maintaining the 2.6 branch anymore, so your best bet is to upgrade 
> to GnuCash 3.7, the latest release. It's certainly buildable on Ubuntu 16.04, 
> our 3.x CI uses Ubuntu 14.04, but the user-prepared .deb will probably not 
> find the right dependencies.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
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[GNC] GnuCash 2.6.12 aborts (core dump) on Ubuntu 16 "hash table assertion failed"

[GWB]

Hello, GnuCash Users,

Gnucash will begin to start, then abort (crash) when launched, using
normal startup or gnucash --nofile --debug.  Output from terminal is:

$ gnucash --nofile --debug
Found Finance::Quote version 1.38
**
GLib:ERROR:/build/glib2.0-pjKWYQ/glib2.0-2.48.2/./glib/ghash.c:373:g_hash_table_lookup_node:
assertion failed: (hash_table->ref_count > 0)
Aborted (core dumped)

So this is some kind of hash table assertion failure?  I have the
gnucash.trace and apport bug reports as well, but before I send them I
thought I would ask if someone else has seen this.  I can rollback to
an earlier version of the file, but I would like to get this
particular version working now.

I might also copy the file to a Windows machine, and install GnuCash
there.  Or, possible, copy and upgrade to GnuCash 3, and then try to
figure out how to move my reports.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Gordon Bynum
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Re: [GNC] UK VAT and "Making Tax Digital"

[GWB]

How would HRMC know if you cut and pasted the data or not?  I haven't
looked at this in some time, but if a CSV file works for the report,
how would they know that a submission isn't just a .csv or .xml file
that was copied and pasted manually from another program?  I vaguely
remembered the website version where you just filled in the boxes.

But what HMRC wants (requires!) now just seems nuts to me.  Anyone can
help themselves from the following header keys:

MOBILE_APP_DIRECT
DESKTOP_APP_DIRECT
MOBILE_APP_VIA_SERVER
DESKTOP_APP_VIA_SERVER
WEB_APP_VIA_SERVER
BATCH_PROCESS_DIRECT
OTHER_DIRECT
OTHER_VIA_SERVER

Just cut and paste one of those into your csv or xml file.  I
recommend "OTHER_VIA_SERVER".

Then for timezone:

<<
Gov-Client-Timezone: UTC+01:00
>>

or get creative!

Gov-Client-Timezone: UTC-27:00

They even have keys or headers when you have "do not track" turned on
in the browser:

WEB_APP_VIA_SERVER

Gov-Client-Browser-Do-Not-Track: false

Which appears to mean that os information, version, etc. is not collected.

I find it disturbing that inland revenue would require you to tell
them your computer, browser, OS, MAC address, and various other bits
and pieces of information that can pinpoint the exact IP and ports on
your devices.  Seamlessly.  In electronic format.  Which data they
would surely never compromise, or allow to be hacked.  What could
possibly go wrong?  I'm sure they would handle all this as smoothly as
they have brexit.

You already expose much of that information now on some web sites.
Banks collect it when you access your accounts with them using a web
browser, to prevent someone else from defrauding your account.  But
HMRC thinks it will help prevent fraud if you give it to them, along
with the quarterly data:

https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/fraud-prevention

But how would that help prevent fraud?  Here are two required headers:

Gov-Client-Screens

Gov-Client-Window-Size

These would be the width, height, depth, scaling factor and pixels of
the screens on the reporting device.

Again, banks, credit card companies, utilities and other companies
might collect this kind of data and they still get hacked.  And they
have lots of expertise and incentive to protect the data of their
users.  How much of those things does HMRC have?

The suggestions already mentioned all seem workable to some extent.  I
would add one more possibility: export the .qfx or .csv then modify
them with a command line program like awk, sed or grep.  Linux and mac
machines have these utilities, and Windows machines can add them with
cygwin.  But that's a lot of work if you don't normally use those
command line programs.

And here's an option:

<<

3.4 Ask HMRC for an exemption

To make a claim for exemption, call or write to VAT: general enquiries.

...

You should continue filing VAT Returns the way you usually do if:

you’re waiting for HMRC to make a decision on an exemption request or
an appeal after being rejected for exemption
HMRC have told you that you’re exempt from Making Tax Digital

>>

Again, be creative.  Tell them you do all your calculations with an
abacus.  You're allergic to electricity.  You might point out, with
all honesty, that the time, money and effort required to "make tax
digital" is crippling for a small business like yours:

<<
HMRC will however take effort, time and cost into account in its
overall assessment of whether it is practical for you to follow the
rules for Making Tax Digital.
>>

I think Maf has the right idea with the third-party vendor CHM.  7.50
sounds like a bargain for each VAT report.  But will HMRC still allow
"bridging" after 2020?  It's not clear from the documentation.

Gordon






On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 7:15 PM Christopher Lam
 wrote:
>
> Oops realised that recording the capital purchase as expense then
> immediately create a kludge txn from expense to capital-asset won't work:
> it would be classed as a 'refund'. I have no other workaround.
>
> Just wondering what exactly are the parameters for your reports?
>
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 at 15:08, Christopher Lam 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Maf
> >
> > I agree your asset purchases are not going to be accounted for in the
> > current iteration. This was not thought of during the design.
> >
> > A short workable answer is to record this asset purchase as an expense,
> > and immediately create an expense->asset transaction which will satisfy
> > your VAT requirements and still use the report as it stands. I'm sorry this
> > is clunky, and the next para explains why
> >
> > The longer answer was that every VAT/GST related transaction ie.
> > sales/purchases, record VAT, and periodic submission would need a
> > transaction of at least 3 splits... moreover we'd need to determine, as
> > simply as possible, whether it is a purchase or a sale. Hence the decision
> > made to consider Income split as sales and Expense split as purchases, and
> > determine vat/gst-split  as asset/liability as well. 

Re: [GNC] My experience importing 19 years of Quicken data into GnuCash

[GWB]

Haven't tested this with the SQLite GnuCash backend, but it is
sometimes possible with PostgreSQL to "roll back" to an earlier state
before the last transactions, or for that matter, any arbitrary number
of transactions before the last one.  I haven't used the PostgreSQL
backend with GnuCash for some time now, since the SQLite format works
extremely well.  But having multiple formats (xml files and sql
databases) was one reason I moved from various other finance programs
(which shall not be named).  SQL Ledger is a financial server-client
model that allows this.

Unless you are willing to spend some time learning various sql query
and dbase commands and functions, I would stick with SQLite and make
snapshots (if your file system allows it) or frequent backups.  And
there is still nothing wrong with the .xml file format that I can see.
I would not suggest the developers try to incorporate some kind of
multiple "undo" within the GnuCash menu (there is already a "replay"
feature, I think, with the .xml file), unless they have lots of spare
time (also not likely!).  But maybe if someone has already had some
success with "rolling back" the SQLite gnucash file to an earlier
state (using command line sql functions and commands?) they could put
it on the wiki.

Keeping changes in memory until commit ("save") works great on most
machines (i.e., the xml file format).  I worry about core dumps and
crashes on linux (less so FreeBSD) so I like various types of sql
backends, but my guess is that most Windows and Mac users (the
majority of gnucash users?) are only rarely affected by crashes.

Gordon

On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 1:20 PM Cricket Onebit
 wrote:
>
> That makes sense.
>
> I know with some versions of SQL, you can roll-back. I suspect that each of
> the three versions GNUCash supports does it differently, sigh. If I do use
> SQL, I'll treat it like my novel. Dated daily backups, and add good title
> and change log when I make major changes. Not that I ever regret major
> changes.
>
> 
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2019 at 15:23, no_more_quicken  wrote:
>
> > Cricket Onebit wrote
> > > Can you explain more about not being able to undo things with the SQL
> > > backend vs XML (or point to more details)? I'm undecided about which
> > > backend. Fully-functional and easy to install and maintain is more
> > > important to me than a few seconds while using, unless those seconds add
> > > up
> > > quickly. I want to do my accounting, not trouble-shoot the installation.
> >
> > With the XML backend, any modifications are kept in memory until you
> > explicitly save the changes.  (You can also setup GnuCash to auto-save at
> > set intervals.) So if you make a major/destructive goof while editing
> > transactions, you can always just not save and get back to your last saved
> > state.  With a SQL backend, modifications are committed immediately to the
> > database, so there is no way to go back.  That said, converting from one
> > format to another is trivially easy and doable at any time, so it's not
> > necessarily a big decision you have to make a priori.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
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> > -
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> >
>
>
> --
> +++
>
> Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, not as a witness to any creed,
> But simple service simply given to his own kind in their common need.
> -- Rudyard Kipling
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Re: [GNC] Accidentally Created .LNK file and now my entire GnuCash file is overwritten and I can't get back to work

[GWB]

David, Michael,

Yes to both of you, but see the other thread on this.  Mac's give you
modified, created and last opened in the finder window.  That can help
troubleshooting.  That's also why older unix systems used some version
of .lck .lnk files and core dumps; all three can be diagnostic.  And
Colin takes a different tack on this.

I like the philosophical question here.  Signifigance often assigns
itself well after events, or perhaps it is post attributive.  I like
the 4 category approach: "known knowns, known unknowns, unknown
knowns, and unknown unknowns".

GordonOn Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 9:42 AM Michael or Penny Novack
 wrote:
>
> On 11/4/2018 9:10 PM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
> > As others explained, the lck and lnk files are created by gnucash to 
> > prevent users accidentally opening the data file on multiple machines. They 
> > are zero bytes in size and there is no point in trying to open them up. 
> > There is no there there.
> >
> Sometimes it can help people remember if they are told why.
>
> Why a file with no data? The lock file isn't intended to be OPENED. Only
> its EXISTENCE is being tested. That's what it is there for. If it
> exists, then some instance of the program has the corresponding data
> file open. When gnucash is about to open a data file, it creates a
> corresponding lock file, and when it closes that data file, it deletes
> the lock file. The existence of a lock file (for some data file) means
> that an instance of the program "owns" that data file, and no other
> instance of the program can touch it.
>
> Why this way? Because a program can check for the existence of a file
> even if not allowed to open that file.
>
> Of course if the program (or the system) crashes before the program
> closes a file and deletes the lock a lock file can get left behind.
>
> Michael D Novack
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Re: [GNC] Accidentally Created .LNK file and now my entire GnuCash file is overwritten and I can't get back to work

[GWB]

Yes, but she doesn't want to delete them. GnuCash would not know the
difference between deleting them or renaming them if the extensions
were no longer .LNK or .LCK.  Correct?  I would find the timestamps of
the .LNK and .LCK files, rename them, and try to find the .gnucash
file with the closest timestamp to them (mtime, modified time), and
open that from within gnucash.  Macs let you do this from the finder
without having to learn terminal commands with find and mtime, ctime,
newermt, etc.
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 8:10 PM David T.  wrote:
>
>
> As others explained, the lck and lnk files are created by gnucash to prevent 
> users accidentally opening the data file on multiple machines. They are zero 
> bytes in size and there is no point in trying to open them up. There is no 
> there there.
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 7:08, GWB
>  wrote:
> Hello, Anita, GnuCash User list,
>
> The attachment smime.p7s might be a file format (.p7s) that is unique
> to microsoft outlook, so I'm not having any luck opening it.  I use
> Macs, but not for gnucash, so perhaps you might try:
>
> 1. Using the spotlight feature in Mac to search for all files ending
> in .gnucash (spotlight is usually the entry bar at the top right of
> the finder window next to the magnifying glass icon).
>
> 2. You might also try using the spotlight feature "modified before...
> modified after..." if you have a close idea as to when the crash
> occurred.
>
> 3. Try to remember the time of the crash that caused the problem, and
> look for the file that ends in .gnucash closest to the time and date
> of the crash.
>
> 4. If you find a file in the spotlight list that ends in .gnucash
> (like your file LSA Nicosia (s) BE 175.gnucash) with a modification
> date and time just before the crash, try opening that from within
> gnucash.
>
> You could try to change the name of the .LNK file to something like:
>
> FileName.CRASH-LNK
>
> if you don't want to delete it.  I'm like you: I'm very hesitant to
> delete files that might help later.  A .LNK file might not be one of
> those, but if you change the name and extension, GnuCash might ignore
> it and give you a different menu.
>
> Don't know much about Mac OS after 10.9, but my guess is Mojave
> (10.14) still allows you to search for files "ending in" and also
> search by "modified before...after...on..."
>
> Here is Apple's basic instructions for spotlight:
>
> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/spotlight-mchlp1008/mac
>
> I think this repeats the suggestions already on the list, but it might
> help to find the .gnucash file closest to the time of the crash, and
> also rename the .LNK file.  If that isn't the solution, you can then
> rename the file back to .LNK.
>
> Gordon
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 3:59 PM David Cousens  wrote:
> >
> > My bad there Geert.
> >
> > Maybe the wiki needs a bit of modification to make it clearer to  that it is
> > the meta data and not the actual data files as I did read it as the default
> > location for the user's gnucash accounting data files and perhaps a note
> > distinguishing these from the accounting data files. I don't know if it is
> > possible to perhaps explain to users where an accounting data file will be
> > created if you run through the new file routine and then hit save in the
> > case of a new installation. This is something a novice user could easily do
> > before reading the documentation. I have experimented a bit with my current
> > installation on Linux Mint  and it will save a new file in the same folder
> > as any previously opened file was located, i.e. the file you had to close to
> > open a new file. I haven't yet experimented with a clean GNuCash
> > installation to see where that would end up, but I expect it would be in the
> > user's home directory.
> >
> > I think have noticed on my system that under some circumstances in some
> > applications the file save routine can open in the last location opened or
> > saved to by other programs on an initial opening, but I can't be too sure of
> > that as I don't take much notice normally and simply change to my preferred
> > location.
> >
> > In any case this did not appear to be Anita's problem as she was in the
> > correct folder.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > David Cousens
> > --
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Re: [GNC] Accidentally Created .LNK file and now my entire GnuCash file is overwritten and I can't get back to work

[GWB]

Hello, Anita, GnuCash User list,

The attachment smime.p7s might be a file format (.p7s) that is unique
to microsoft outlook, so I'm not having any luck opening it.  I use
Macs, but not for gnucash, so perhaps you might try:

1. Using the spotlight feature in Mac to search for all files ending
in .gnucash (spotlight is usually the entry bar at the top right of
the finder window next to the magnifying glass icon).

2. You might also try using the spotlight feature "modified before...
modified after..." if you have a close idea as to when the crash
occurred.

3. Try to remember the time of the crash that caused the problem, and
look for the file that ends in .gnucash closest to the time and date
of the crash.

4. If you find a file in the spotlight list that ends in .gnucash
(like your file LSA Nicosia (s) BE 175.gnucash) with a modification
date and time just before the crash, try opening that from within
gnucash.

You could try to change the name of the .LNK file to something like:

FileName.CRASH-LNK

if you don't want to delete it.  I'm like you: I'm very hesitant to
delete files that might help later.  A .LNK file might not be one of
those, but if you change the name and extension, GnuCash might ignore
it and give you a different menu.

Don't know much about Mac OS after 10.9, but my guess is Mojave
(10.14) still allows you to search for files "ending in" and also
search by "modified before...after...on..."

Here is Apple's basic instructions for spotlight:

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/spotlight-mchlp1008/mac

I think this repeats the suggestions already on the list, but it might
help to find the .gnucash file closest to the time of the crash, and
also rename the .LNK file.  If that isn't the solution, you can then
rename the file back to .LNK.

Gordon
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 3:59 PM David Cousens  wrote:
>
> My bad there Geert.
>
> Maybe the wiki needs a bit of modification to make it clearer to  that it is
> the meta data and not the actual data files as I did read it as the default
> location for the user's gnucash accounting data files and perhaps a note
> distinguishing these from the accounting data files. I don't know if it is
> possible to perhaps explain to users where an accounting data file will be
> created if you run through the new file routine and then hit save in the
> case of a new installation. This is something a novice user could easily do
> before reading the documentation. I have experimented a bit with my current
> installation on Linux Mint  and it will save a new file in the same folder
> as any previously opened file was located, i.e. the file you had to close to
> open a new file. I haven't yet experimented with a clean GNuCash
> installation to see where that would end up, but I expect it would be in the
> user's home directory.
>
> I think have noticed on my system that under some circumstances in some
> applications the file save routine can open in the last location opened or
> saved to by other programs on an initial opening, but I can't be too sure of
> that as I don't take much notice normally and simply change to my preferred
> location.
>
> In any case this did not appear to be Anita's problem as she was in the
> correct folder.
>
> David
>
>
>
> -
> David Cousens
> --
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Re: [GNC] Chromebooks

[GWB]

Wow; that's excellent.  The Crouton page also mentions Crostini:

https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/containers_and_vms.md

Which does not require running with dev enabled.

Pixelbooks work with Crostini.  Here's the hardware list by motherboard:

https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/containers_and_vms.md#Supported-Now

So three options at least: Crostini, Crouton, or Google Play Store.

Gordon
On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 4:56 PM Jim Passmore  wrote:
>
> I can heartily endorse crouton (https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton)  as a
> way to install Linux on a chromebook.  I did it for a couple years, and
> Ubuntu ran beautifully, but there will of course be a dependency on how
> powerful it is.   I had an Acer C720 with 4GB RAM, 32GB SSD, and an Intel
> I3, where many Chromebooks of that era had 2GB RAM, 16GB SSD, and a Celeron.
>
> You will have to use developer mode, and enabling that does a power-wash on
> the chromebook, but other than being careful not to lose any files, it's
> pretty easy.  I would definitely give it a try if I were you.
>
> --
>
> *Jim*
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM randix  wrote:
>
> > So I'm not feelin' real warm and fuzzy at the moment, notwithstanding that
> > I
> > lost my laptop earlier today
> >
> > So I can't get Gnucash on a Chromebook
> >
> > So I can't get Gnucash Portable to work on a Chromebook
> >
> > If I want to "rely" on the GnuCash app (which I realize has zippo to do
> > with
> > the the "authentic" GnuCash), I have the challenge since I currently have
> > no
> > access to GnuCash, to export my account structure to that app unless I
> > spend
> > oodles of hours re-creating it, and I wonder even if I somehow did, how
> > that
> > app would accommodate the tons of data that I have in my backup GnuCash
> > files (I know, I know, that's not a topic for this site).
> >
> > Sorta feelin' like what it must feel like when a nut laughs at a screw
> >
> > Bartender?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] Chromebooks

[GWB]

You might be able to gun gnucash on a chromebook using Google Play
Store.  Here's a list of ChromeOS Hardware Google says will work with
Google Play:

https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/chrome-os-systems-supporting-android-apps

I know it can work because I'm looking at GnuCash 2.4.0 right now on
my LG V20.  It opens my gnucash file from my ubuntu 14 laptop (gnucash
version 2.6.7).  So it does recognize and open the gnucash file from
my laptop.  I think it even opened the sqlite .gnucash file, and saved
it as an .xml.  But I can't swear to that.

I have not tried data entry on the android phone.  My guess is that
data entry on a Chromebook might be something like dancing around a
dumpster fire, but it might be better than that.  I would try to
download gnucash from the Google Play Store (if your chromebook lets
you) and try to open your most recent backup file.  You might have to
send it as an email attachment to yourself, and use the browser on the
Chromebook to save it to the device.

Your obsessive backup compulsion is a good thing, a very good thing.
I celebrate that disease myself.  Chromebooks are a little awkward
outside of their principal intended use (web browsing maybe?  I can't
tell), but they can work.

Very sorry you lost your laptop.  That really hoovers.  Worse things
can happen (like dropping the keys to your Saab in Lake Superior), but
just the aggravation of replacing the machine and software is very
time consuming.

Does anyone on the list know of a virtual machine over internet set up
that could run gnucash?  Amazon and Google clouds say they can do
something like that, but it would involve some kind of (X)windows
client over internet.

Gordon

On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 4:04 PM Adrien Monteleone
 wrote:
>
> This link gives some info on flatpaks as well: 
> https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/08/19/install-linux-applications-chrome-os/
>
> Note, ChromeOS is using the Debian9 Stretch repos, so if you just use apt-get 
> you won’t get the latest GnuCash version.
>
> You’ll either need a .deb from a PPA (or build it yourself) or try the 
> flatpak. (not sure if Geert has started packaging this yet for 3.3)
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> > On Oct 6, 2018, at 3:55 PM, Adrien Monteleone 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Do a search for “run linux apps on chromebook” and you’ll get a page of 
> > hits, all from this year, the first 5 or so from the last 6 weeks showing 
> > you how to install linux apps on a Chromebook.
> >
> > If you end up with a situation where you need to build first and can’t use 
> > a PPA or otherwise download a .deb file, you could first install 
> > Virtualbox, install a linux distro (and just use that to run GnuCash) then 
> > build the app as a .deb, share it back to ChromeOS and install.
> >
> > You might have quite a few hoops, but it should be possible.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Adrien
> >
> >> On Oct 6, 2018, at 3:49 PM, randix  wrote:
> >>
> >> So I'm not feelin' real warm and fuzzy at the moment, notwithstanding that 
> >> I
> >> lost my laptop earlier today
> >>
> >> So I can't get Gnucash on a Chromebook
> >>
> >> So I can't get Gnucash Portable to work on a Chromebook
> >>
> >> If I want to "rely" on the GnuCash app (which I realize has zippo to do 
> >> with
> >> the the "authentic" GnuCash), I have the challenge since I currently have 
> >> no
> >> access to GnuCash, to export my account structure to that app unless I 
> >> spend
> >> oodles of hours re-creating it, and I wonder even if I somehow did, how 
> >> that
> >> app would accommodate the tons of data that I have in my backup GnuCash
> >> files (I know, I know, that's not a topic for this site).
> >>
> >> Sorta feelin' like what it must feel like when a nut laughs at a screw
> >>
> >> Bartender?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> >> ___
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> >>
> >
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Gnucash 3 in the Debian / Ubuntu pipeline?

[GWB]

No disagreement here on building from source.  A PPA did exist for
GnuCash versions beyond the Ubuntu standard repo.  That was
GetDeb.org.  It went dark.  If I had installed 3.x.x. from GetDeb and
I had to reinstall for some reason, building from source would be
about the only option (or perhaps another PPA).

I'm not sure if that's trivial for most gnucash users on linux or not.
But if you do install 2.6.21 from a PPA and pin it (or build from
source) and you have to reinstall, your chances are much better that
the universal PPA will have something close enough to 2.6.21 that will
work.

So for ubuntu I mean I avoid installing a version signifigantly higher
than what is in the universal PPA.  If your distribution has 3.x.x in
the pipeline, you're probably OK with 3.2.

You're OK with all the versions if you are familiar with building from
source, and you know how to apply patches manually.

I haven't tried this yet, but I will at some point download the
gnucash-common .deb file and see if dpkg can find all the dependencies
when installing local:

https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/all/gnucash-common/download

Or perhaps:

https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/all/gnucash-common/download

At the moment they look the same; if Cosmic Carmic Cuttlefish gets a
deb for 3.x.x, it will be at the last URL, I think.

Why is gnucash in the Gnome ghetto for program categories?  Am I able
to run it in xfce because I already have the gnome dependencies
installed already?

Gordon

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 1:33 PM, Adrien Monteleone
 wrote:
> I’m not sure what you mean by ’not getting too far ahead of your 
> distribution.’
>
> I’ve successfully compiled and used 3.2 (and 2.6.17 and 2.6.19) on Ubuntu 
> 16.04 which has 2.6.12 in its repo.
>
> Unless you’re using a dedicated PPA (which doesn’t exist for GnuCash), 
> certainly changing repos to debian/unstable or trying to change to a 
> different ubuntu repo (like using the bionic repo on xenial) can be dangerous.
>
> But building from source, which is not all that complicated, is generally 
> fine. (problems arise if you have dependency conflicts with other software)
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
>> On Aug 21, 2018, at 4:55 PM, GWB  wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure how the version history works in Ubuntu or Debian, but I
>> installed GnuCash 2.6.7 from getdeb.org quite a while ago, and
>> "pinned" it (so that apt-get upgrade would not go to the version up)
>> to that version hoping that gnucash in Ubuntu 14 would catch up with
>> 2.6.7.  Ubuntu 14 ("Trusty Tahr") still only has 2.6.1, but 18.04
>> ("Bionic Beaver" really? who comes up with these names?) has indeed
>> included 2.16.19, as John recalled.  18.04 is my next upgrade.
>>
>> Every time I run "apt-get update" I am reminded that getdeb.org is
>> gone, and has been for some time.  Did getdeb.org have gnucash 3.0 at
>> some point before it went dark?
>>
>> I don't see either the Ubuntu or Debian package maintainers (perhaps
>> the same person or team in this case) moving too quickly to upgrade
>> gnucash in their package repos.  But maybe I'm wrong, which would be
>> nice.  But if you do find a repository with 3.x.x, I would pin it (or
>> "version lock") to a lower version in order not to get too far ahead
>> of the main repos for your linux distribution.
>>
>> Alas, 18.10 ("Cosmic Cuttlefish") lists:
>>
>> gnucash (1:2.6.19-1)
>>[universe]personal and small-business financial-accounting software
>>
>> at https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/gnome/
>>
>> Perhaps 19 ("Vomiting Vole") will have gnucash 3.  Until then, check
>> for other repos, look in unstable and testing to see if some
>> adventurous soul decided to be creative, and unless you absolutely
>> need some feature in the latest release, pin your version and don't
>> get too far ahead of the main repo for your distribution.
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 7:41 PM, Lincoln A Baxter  
>> wrote:
>>> Just curious...  It has been almost a year since Gnucash was removed to
>>> Debian testing.
>>>
>>> It has (re)entered SID on 7/4, and there it sits...
>>>
>>> Who is responsible for working on the "excuses" for why is stays in
>>> SID: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gnucash, and has not migrated to
>>> Testing?
>>>
>>> Lincoln
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2018-07-05 at 00:39 -0600, Bert Riding wrote:
>>>> I spoke too soon.  1:3.2-1 is now out in the unstable Debian repo.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 12:52:51 +0800
>>>> Plutocrat  wrote:
>>>>
>>&

Re: [GNC] Gnucash 3 in the Debian / Ubuntu pipeline?

[GWB]

Yes, thank you, I may try building from source.  Has there ever been a
standalone .deb package for GnuCash?  I don't know what the flatpack
is, but it occurs to me that for linux, debian, etc., a 3.x .deb might
be worthwhile.  But I don't think I have seen a .deb package on the
download links at GnuCash.org.

If not, is that intentional?  Some distros are good with
"automagically" finding and installing dependencies when using .deb
packages, and some are not.  Source may be less hassle anyway on some
distros.
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Re: [GNC] Gnucash 3 in the Debian / Ubuntu pipeline?

[GWB]

As Bert pointed out, if you can use Debian unstable, the version is 3.2:

<<
Source Package: gnucash (1:3.2-1)
>>

from https://packages.debian.org/source/unstable/gnucash

Ironically, I usually find Debian unstable to be, in fact, more stable
than the "stable" version of some other distros.  But Debian will tell
you otherwise:

https://www.debian.org/releases/sid/

Listen to Debian in this case, especially since it's your financial
data.  So using the Ubuntu naming method, think of Sid Unstable as
"Sid Vicious", and expect lots of crashes, core dumps, and other nasty
things to occur when you're using gnucash.  They won't be caused by
gnucash, but they will affect what you're trying to do.

If you can navigate that and work around the instability, give it a
try.  I'm OK with 2.6.whatever until Ubuntu 18 gets 3.

Gordon

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:55 PM, GWB  wrote:
> I'm not sure how the version history works in Ubuntu or Debian, but I
> installed GnuCash 2.6.7 from getdeb.org quite a while ago, and
> "pinned" it (so that apt-get upgrade would not go to the version up)
> to that version hoping that gnucash in Ubuntu 14 would catch up with
> 2.6.7.  Ubuntu 14 ("Trusty Tahr") still only has 2.6.1, but 18.04
> ("Bionic Beaver" really? who comes up with these names?) has indeed
> included 2.16.19, as John recalled.  18.04 is my next upgrade.
>
> Every time I run "apt-get update" I am reminded that getdeb.org is
> gone, and has been for some time.  Did getdeb.org have gnucash 3.0 at
> some point before it went dark?
>
> I don't see either the Ubuntu or Debian package maintainers (perhaps
> the same person or team in this case) moving too quickly to upgrade
> gnucash in their package repos.  But maybe I'm wrong, which would be
> nice.  But if you do find a repository with 3.x.x, I would pin it (or
> "version lock") to a lower version in order not to get too far ahead
> of the main repos for your linux distribution.
>
> Alas, 18.10 ("Cosmic Cuttlefish") lists:
>
> gnucash (1:2.6.19-1)
> [universe]personal and small-business financial-accounting software
>
> at https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/gnome/
>
> Perhaps 19 ("Vomiting Vole") will have gnucash 3.  Until then, check
> for other repos, look in unstable and testing to see if some
> adventurous soul decided to be creative, and unless you absolutely
> need some feature in the latest release, pin your version and don't
> get too far ahead of the main repo for your distribution.
>
> Gordon
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 7:41 PM, Lincoln A Baxter  
> wrote:
>> Just curious...  It has been almost a year since Gnucash was removed to
>> Debian testing.
>>
>> It has (re)entered SID on 7/4, and there it sits...
>>
>> Who is responsible for working on the "excuses" for why is stays in
>> SID: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gnucash, and has not migrated to
>> Testing?
>>
>> Lincoln
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2018-07-05 at 00:39 -0600, Bert Riding wrote:
>>> I spoke too soon.  1:3.2-1 is now out in the unstable Debian repo.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 12:52:51 +0800
>>> Plutocrat  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I've been troubled by the lack of Gnucash activity in Debian/Ubuntu
>>> > repositories. I previously used getdeb, which went silent around
>>> > September 2017. I tried contacting the owners, but no reply. There
>>> > was also an attempt on Launchpad to provided more recent versions via
>>> > a PPA, but that also went inactive a few years back. Again I tried to
>>> > contact the owners, but no response. And the main repos are stuck on
>>> > 2.6
>>> >
>>> > So for the last week or so I've been looking around, trying to figure
>>> > out if I can start a PPA of my own, and looking for info on what are
>>> > the necessary steps to fill it with .deb files. I was initially just
>>> > looking to do 3.x on Ubuntu 18.04. Still haven't figured out exactly
>>> > how this works.
>>> >
>>> > However I just came across this in my research. If I read it
>>> > correctly, then it seems that 3.2 is being added to Debian Sid and
>>> > so, eventually, to Ubuntu 18.10. Possibly it will be backported then
>>> > to 18.04 and maybe even 16.x
>>> > https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnucash/1:3.2-1
>>> >
>>> > Here's hoping.
>>> >
>>> > P.
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > gnucash-user mailing lis

Re: [GNC] Gnucash 3 in the Debian / Ubuntu pipeline?

[GWB]

I'm not sure how the version history works in Ubuntu or Debian, but I
installed GnuCash 2.6.7 from getdeb.org quite a while ago, and
"pinned" it (so that apt-get upgrade would not go to the version up)
to that version hoping that gnucash in Ubuntu 14 would catch up with
2.6.7.  Ubuntu 14 ("Trusty Tahr") still only has 2.6.1, but 18.04
("Bionic Beaver" really? who comes up with these names?) has indeed
included 2.16.19, as John recalled.  18.04 is my next upgrade.

Every time I run "apt-get update" I am reminded that getdeb.org is
gone, and has been for some time.  Did getdeb.org have gnucash 3.0 at
some point before it went dark?

I don't see either the Ubuntu or Debian package maintainers (perhaps
the same person or team in this case) moving too quickly to upgrade
gnucash in their package repos.  But maybe I'm wrong, which would be
nice.  But if you do find a repository with 3.x.x, I would pin it (or
"version lock") to a lower version in order not to get too far ahead
of the main repos for your linux distribution.

Alas, 18.10 ("Cosmic Cuttlefish") lists:

gnucash (1:2.6.19-1)
[universe]personal and small-business financial-accounting software

at https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/gnome/

Perhaps 19 ("Vomiting Vole") will have gnucash 3.  Until then, check
for other repos, look in unstable and testing to see if some
adventurous soul decided to be creative, and unless you absolutely
need some feature in the latest release, pin your version and don't
get too far ahead of the main repo for your distribution.

Gordon

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 7:41 PM, Lincoln A Baxter  
wrote:
> Just curious...  It has been almost a year since Gnucash was removed to
> Debian testing.
>
> It has (re)entered SID on 7/4, and there it sits...
>
> Who is responsible for working on the "excuses" for why is stays in
> SID: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gnucash, and has not migrated to
> Testing?
>
> Lincoln
>
>
> On Thu, 2018-07-05 at 00:39 -0600, Bert Riding wrote:
>> I spoke too soon.  1:3.2-1 is now out in the unstable Debian repo.
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 12:52:51 +0800
>> Plutocrat  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I've been troubled by the lack of Gnucash activity in Debian/Ubuntu
>> > repositories. I previously used getdeb, which went silent around
>> > September 2017. I tried contacting the owners, but no reply. There
>> > was also an attempt on Launchpad to provided more recent versions via
>> > a PPA, but that also went inactive a few years back. Again I tried to
>> > contact the owners, but no response. And the main repos are stuck on
>> > 2.6
>> >
>> > So for the last week or so I've been looking around, trying to figure
>> > out if I can start a PPA of my own, and looking for info on what are
>> > the necessary steps to fill it with .deb files. I was initially just
>> > looking to do 3.x on Ubuntu 18.04. Still haven't figured out exactly
>> > how this works.
>> >
>> > However I just came across this in my research. If I read it
>> > correctly, then it seems that 3.2 is being added to Debian Sid and
>> > so, eventually, to Ubuntu 18.10. Possibly it will be backported then
>> > to 18.04 and maybe even 16.x
>> > https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnucash/1:3.2-1
>> >
>> > Here's hoping.
>> >
>> > P.
>> >
>> > ___
>> > gnucash-user mailing list
>> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> > - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>>
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> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] pros/cons of storage formats

[GWB]

I have used xml, postgresql, and sqlite (which must default to sqlite3
on Ubuntu) with gnucash.  sqlite3, as mentioned already, is a good
compromise between a database backend and simplicity of set up.
PostgreSQL is, probably, technically the best of the database backend
options for being robust, able to replay record of transactions, and
speed.  But it is highly unlikely that you (and most users) will ever
notice a difference in the speed of any of the sql backends.

I now use sqlite3.  It's usually the easiest of the sql backends to
set up, and it does fine with large gnucash files (57.6 Megs as of
today).  But I had no problem with xml format, and if I remember, it
saved log files after each session, which might come in handy.  My
impression (but not verified) is that the sqlite3 file loads faster
than the xml at startup, but I expect that with a few years of data.

sqlite3 is a great little "container" for data that you can later
import to other apps and for sql queries.  If you already are a dba
for a PostgreSQL installation, then you have more options, and you
know that Postgres rocks for speed and optimisation.  But I am also a
big fan of "easy and lazy", so I doubt you could go wrong with any of
these formats.  But if xml still generates log files, be aware you
might have to do some clean up over time if the sheer number of log
files bothers you.  I used to archive them to a zfs server after a
year or so and delete them on the machine running gnucash.  Also be
aware that depending on whatever jurisdiction you are in, the
"compliance" people may become interested, and they may want to see
log files if you have them.  I don't know how far back sqlite3 can
"replay" transactions, but I never kept the log files from .xml for
more than a year or so.  Postgres, if I remember correctly, can keep
transaction records going back to the beginning of the database
record.

So perhaps stick with sqlite3 or xml, and make backups.  I backup to a
remote machine every day I make a change to the gnucash file.  Daily
backups have saved me more time and aggravation than anything else.

Gordon

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Adrien Monteleone
 wrote:
> When playing with it I noticed zero performance hit on High Sierra. But I 
> also have no performance lag with XML. Mileage may vary.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
>> On May 17, 2018, at 9:07 AM, John Ralls  wrote:
>>
>> Should be since the SQL (including SQLite3) backend saves each change 
>> immediately so there is no bulk saving. The initial “save as” operation 
>> might be, but that’s a one-time hit.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
>>
>>> On May 17, 2018, at 6:35 AM, Sébastien de Menten  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is the SQLite storage format immune to the issue regarding "very long time
>>> to save the XML format" some users are experiencing?
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018, 10:46 David T. via gnucash-user <
>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>>>
 And, as I noted in January, the sql format does not get compressed, so the
 files are much larger.



 On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 10:37, Adrien Monteleone<
 adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:   Keith,

 The SQL backends are having a few issues at the moment. It would be a good
 idea to search the list here and also to look over the bug reports on
 Bugzilla.

 I originally used MySQL when I was running an Ubuntu box as my daily
 machine, but changed to XML when I moved to MacOS, and then switched to
 sqlite3 about two years ago, but had to change back to XML since the 3.x
 series release due to several bugs related to the business features. (if
 you don’t use those, you might not have any problems)

 If all you want is the ability to run outside queries for custom reporting
 or data integration, then sqlite3 is probably your safest bet. MySQL and
 Postgres are much more involved to setup and maintain. Essentially, if
 you’re not a database admin, you probably don’t need those two or will not
 find any advantage to the maintenance learning curve and overhead, stick
 with sqlite3 or XML.

 As for searching the list archives, use the following syntax before your
 search query terms:

 site:lists.gnucash.org

 However, I see that DuckDuckGo does not return any results with this
 method.

 Google does, as well as StartPage. (the latter I find to be more privacy
 conscious than DDG and usually provides me more relevant results.) I
 haven’t tested any other search engines with that syntax.

 Regards,
 Adrien


> On May 16, 2018, at 10:32 PM, Keith Keller <
 kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 03:21:13AM +, David T. wrote:
>> I'm not sure how you looked,  but this topic had been discussed for
 many years on the list. A recent one was
 

Re: MacOS 32-bit support

[GWB]

John,

Thank you for doing that in the past, and all your other work.  My
recollection (sketchy, at best) is that you can still get the C++11
compiler for later IBM PPC (OpenPower and ISA), but that has moved on
quite a bit from the old G4 and G5.  And knowing Apple, my guess is
that they quit updating their XCode for PPC a long time ago.  I do
wonder how much time and effort Apple thinks it will save by dropping
32 bit, but that's a moot point.  FreeBSD and NetBSD (I think) will
build fine on PPC as well; I will check the ports tree and see if
gnucash is there.  If not, Debian works fine.

I wonder if VirtualBox on 32 bit Macs (an idea from the thread here)
will run 64 bit, but if you do that, Apple's position in the past was
that only Apple Server (with licences) can virtualise OS X, and not
clients.  Do with that what you will.  If someone here on the list is
able to virtualise a 64 bit guest inside a 32 bit Mac, I would be
interested in leaning how.

Gordon

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 5:59 PM, John Ralls <jra...@ceridwen.us> wrote:
> I won't be bundling Gnucash for PPC after 2.6.20, for lack of a 
> suitable--i.e. C++11 capable--compiler. Linux runs well on PPC machines and 
> GnuCash passes Debian's tests on their PPC buildbot, so that's the way to go 
> if you're still running an old PPC mac.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
>> On Jan 26, 2018, at 12:41 PM, GWB <g...@2realms.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have not yet tried this yet with GnuCash on the G4 and G5 PPC Macs
>> we still have, but it is possible to install FreeBSD 64 bit on the G5
>> Macs, which does have some virtualisation (weird, but impressive).
>> That would be a "corner case" scenario for what I'm guessing are a
>> very few GnuCash users.  And, of course, GnuCash is still ported for
>> Mac PPC (2.6.19, I think) so the question is will the PPC version only
>> support 64 bit from 2.7 on, or will it still run on G4 machines.
>>
>> I think that it's great the devs still port GnuCash for PPC.  Lots of
>> apps quite that some time ago.
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Adrien Monteleone
>> <adrien.montele...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Yes, with a performance hit, it is possible, at least with Virtualbox to 
>>> install a 64-bit OS on a 32-bit host. Mileage varies based on the host and 
>>> guest. I’ve pulled it off a few times. I don’t know however if you can run 
>>> apps that require 64-bit in such a guest without issue.
>>>
>>> As for the other way around, I’ve never had an issue, but then I also 
>>> didn’t have the situation of the host not supporting 32-bit apps either. 
>>> It’s worth a shot I suppose to see if older but still functional hardware 
>>> can be extended on life support a bit longer.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Adrien
>>>
>>>> On Jan 26, 2018, at 6:46 AM, Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:52:00 -0600 Adrien Monteleone 
>>>> <adrien.montele...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the heads-up. (I still have a Snow Leopard Macbook, but don’t
>>>>> use it for GnuCash any longer)
>>>>>
>>>>> Any reason to think a 32-bit vm to run 2.6.x if needed on 10.14 or a 
>>>>> 64-bit
>>>>> vm to run 2.7/3.0 on older Macs wouldn’t handle those hopefully few cases?
>>>>> (other than maybe a performance hit that is)
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to run a 64-bit VM on 32-bit hardware?  I suspect not.
>>>>
>>>> Note: with Linux/KVM (don't know about other VM systems), you don't 
>>>> actually
>>>> get a "32-bit" VM -- all VMs are 64-bit, just like the host -- you just
>>>> install a 32-bit O/S on the 64-bit machine.  A 32-bit OS installed on a 
>>>> 64-bit
>>>> machine (VM or bare metal) behaves like it was installed on a i686 w/PAE.  
>>>> At
>>>> least that is the case of Linux.  I have no clue what MacOSX will do if you
>>>> try to install a 32-bit incarnation on 64-bit hardware (unless it is a 
>>>> really
>>>> old version of MacOSX).  I guess you could always install a 32-bit version 
>>>> of
>>>> Linux (not really sure why -- even though RH dropped 32-bit *kernels* from
>>>> CentOS 7, 32-bit applications can still be run on CentOS 7 -- I would guess
>>>> the same would be true of Ubuntu if/when they stops being 32-bit kernels 
>>>> for
>>>> Ubuntu).
>>>>
>>>>

Re: Please remove me from the mailing list

[GWB]

It also appears an "unsubscribe" button would not work with mailman
(or most mail lists), because most of them send in text only, and few
allow html or scripts (for good reason).  So forget about the
MailChimp type of button.  It would also have no effect on nabble,
etc.

Gordon

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 9:55 PM, Adrien Monteleone
 wrote:
> This is just getting silly.
>
> Scott,
>
> We can’t remove you.
>
> Read the footer of this e-mail and follow the instructions.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
>> On Jan 30, 2018, at 9:48 PM, Scott Stevens  wrote:
>>
>> Please remove my me as well.
>>
>> Thank you to the community for all I've learned from this group!
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2018 6:30 PM, "Megagrumpy"  wrote:
>>
>>> Tried to do it myself but going around in circles!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
>>> ___
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> -
>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>>
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
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Re: Please remove me from the mailing list

[GWB]

My favourite was a mailing list some years back which, when receiving
"list-unsubscribe" in the body of the email, would literally subscribe
the email address to a "list-unsubscribe" mailing list, which would
send the messages of those attempting to unsubscribe to each other.
But not to the list or the admins.

This was pure evil.

I don't suppose it can hurt to add yet another explicit section
(perhaps "How Remove Oneself From This Mailing List"?).  Mailing lists
are not intuitive for most people (me included).  But as already said,
no one at gnucash.org can give advice or instructions for any service
other than gnucash.org.

Or, perhaps, create a new list:

gnucash-unsubscribe

Just kidding.  Or, perhaps not; if gnucash-unsubscribe would send
nothing more than an automated reply with instructions, and then
unsubscribe the email address from itself, that might work.

But that seems needlessly complicated, and doesn't something like that
happen anyway if you fill out the "unsubscribe or edit options" box
at:

https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user

I have never tried it.  Is there an auto reply when users try to
unsubscribe?  Does it mention that the use must also unsubscribe
separately at any mailing list reflectors such as Nabble?
"unsubscribe" usually generates an auto reply, but I don't know if
Mailman let's you edit that template.

By the way, if you search for the term "unsubscribe" on the list using
Google or Pipermail, it gives you (of course) a vast number of
results, because "unsubscribe" appears in the footer of most of the
emails that go through the list:

<<
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>>

I don't know how you would make that more obvious, unless you were to
include an "Unsubscribe" button like MailChimp does.

Gordon

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Greg Feneis  wrote:
> Hi, Just a thought about the footer and the wiki.
>
> The footer directs the reader to update their subscription prefs or unsub
> at lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucashuser-user
>
> It also now directs Nabble or Gmane users to
> wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>
> Since the link to the wiki also has a link to the mailing list, perhaps
> make the footer just lead the reader to the wiki page.  Then embellish the
> wiki page as needed.
>   As things change, if more mirrors are supported, etc. or if ppl get
> stuck, instructions could be added or removed or enhanced in this wiki page.
>
> I'm thinking this would help keep the help footer small, which will help
> make the CC this list Reply ALL request much more prominent.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Greg Feneis
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Derek Atkins  wrote:
>
>> Liz  writes:
>>
>> > On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:11:25 -0600
>> > David Carlson  wrote:
>> >
>> >> In that regard, where-ever there are instructions about subscribing
>> >> and un-subscribing it would be useful to have a link to the Nabble
>> >> mirror, if it is appropriate to call it that.
>> >>
>> >> David C
>> >
>> > There isn't a place on the default mailman pages to put that. I'm sure
>> > Derek will say "patches welcome"
>>
>> Actully, no.  IMHO, there are just too many potential mirrors out there
>> to list them all.  Tomorrow a new one could come along and provide the
>> same service.  I think it's safe to say "Other services mirror the
>> GnuCash list (e.g., nabble, gmane, etc).  These services are not under
>> the control of the GnuCash team and if you use them you must unsubscribe
>> from them."But that's a mouthful, and I honestly don't know how to
>> say "don't be a bonehead" more succinctly (and less causticly)  ;)
>>
>> > :)
>>
>> I see you did make a change.  Perhaps something more like, "If you use
>> an external list service (e.g. Nabble, Gmane, etc) please see
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information."  ??
>>
>> > Liz
>>
>> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>> -derek
>>
>> --
>>Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
>>Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
>>URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
>>warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
>> ___
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>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You 

Re: MacOS 32-bit support

[GWB]

I have not yet tried this yet with GnuCash on the G4 and G5 PPC Macs
we still have, but it is possible to install FreeBSD 64 bit on the G5
Macs, which does have some virtualisation (weird, but impressive).
That would be a "corner case" scenario for what I'm guessing are a
very few GnuCash users.  And, of course, GnuCash is still ported for
Mac PPC (2.6.19, I think) so the question is will the PPC version only
support 64 bit from 2.7 on, or will it still run on G4 machines.

I think that it's great the devs still port GnuCash for PPC.  Lots of
apps quite that some time ago.

Gordon

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Adrien Monteleone
 wrote:
> Yes, with a performance hit, it is possible, at least with Virtualbox to 
> install a 64-bit OS on a 32-bit host. Mileage varies based on the host and 
> guest. I’ve pulled it off a few times. I don’t know however if you can run 
> apps that require 64-bit in such a guest without issue.
>
> As for the other way around, I’ve never had an issue, but then I also didn’t 
> have the situation of the host not supporting 32-bit apps either. It’s worth 
> a shot I suppose to see if older but still functional hardware can be 
> extended on life support a bit longer.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
>> On Jan 26, 2018, at 6:46 AM, Robert Heller  wrote:
>>
>> At Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:52:00 -0600 Adrien Monteleone 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the heads-up. (I still have a Snow Leopard Macbook, but don’t
>>> use it for GnuCash any longer)
>>>
>>> Any reason to think a 32-bit vm to run 2.6.x if needed on 10.14 or a 64-bit
>>> vm to run 2.7/3.0 on older Macs wouldn’t handle those hopefully few cases?
>>> (other than maybe a performance hit that is)
>>
>> Is it possible to run a 64-bit VM on 32-bit hardware?  I suspect not.
>>
>> Note: with Linux/KVM (don't know about other VM systems), you don't actually
>> get a "32-bit" VM -- all VMs are 64-bit, just like the host -- you just
>> install a 32-bit O/S on the 64-bit machine.  A 32-bit OS installed on a 
>> 64-bit
>> machine (VM or bare metal) behaves like it was installed on a i686 w/PAE.  At
>> least that is the case of Linux.  I have no clue what MacOSX will do if you
>> try to install a 32-bit incarnation on 64-bit hardware (unless it is a really
>> old version of MacOSX).  I guess you could always install a 32-bit version of
>> Linux (not really sure why -- even though RH dropped 32-bit *kernels* from
>> CentOS 7, 32-bit applications can still be run on CentOS 7 -- I would guess
>> the same would be true of Ubuntu if/when they stops being 32-bit kernels for
>> Ubuntu).
>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Adrien
>>>
 On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:11 PM, John Ralls  wrote:

 On the off chance that anyone else is running a Mac with Developer Beta 
 MacOS installed, the latest developer beta will put up the attached dialog 
 when you launch Gnucash 2.6.x. What it means is that MacOS 10.14 (they’ll 
 announce the name at WWDC in June) won’t support 32-bit applications.

 GnuCash.app 2.7.x is 64-bit and won’t have a problem. That also means that 
 it won’t work for the (one hopes very few) users who still have 32-bit 
 Macs. It actually won’t support anything older than MacOS X 10.9 
 (Mavericks) which will shut out a few of the early 64-bit Macs as well.

 Regards,
 John Ralls

 ___
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 https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
 -
 Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
 You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>>
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>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
>> Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
>> http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
>> hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services
>
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Re: Receipt scanners, recommendations?

[GWB]

I can say that VueScan softer does work with the older Fujitsu
ScanSnap (s500, I think) on Ubuntu 14.  But VueScan is not free, and I
have not tried Fujitsu's linux version for the ScanSnap.  I don't use
OCR when I scan, but instead batch scan, and then later run the files
(usually .tiff) through an OCR program if necessary.  In my
experience, the OCR takes too much time, and I have too many pages
(various sizes, receipts, etc.).  I will take take a blank sheet and
write the date or topic (usually "201701JAN", etc.; MMAAA) and
scan that sheet at beginning and end of the batch.

That also takes more space, because I'm scanning one sheet to one
file.  If you do scan to .pdf, you can place multiple images of sheets
in one file, which might work best for you.

I have used Neat Receipts, and it's not bad, but too proprietary for
cross platform work; they did not support Linux at the time.  The cell
phone based scanner apps look interesting, and I would love to try
that as well.

Gordon

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 5:53 PM, George Riner  wrote:
> An interface from a product like Neat Receipts into gnucash would be cool!
>
> But you say you have a scanner, but it's not a reasonable option. Why? If you 
> just want to scan receipts and store the scans on your computer, sounds like 
> you're all set.
>
> As others said, gnucash doesn't store scanned images. Much less store them in 
> any way that let's you associate a scanned image with a transaction.
>
> It sounded like you were drowning in getting all the transactions entered 
> into gnucash that all those receipts represent. I find that the most tedious 
> part.
>
> If you just want to scan bits of paper and throw the paper away, what does 
> gnucash have to do with that?
>
> : George
>
>
> -- -- --
> Sent by Droid.
>
> On December 21, 2017 3:09:10 PM PST, jeffrey black 
>  wrote:
>>On 12/21/2017 3:05 PM, George Riner wrote:
>>> Is your question regarding a general purpose scanner?
>>>
>>> Or is your point about a application/tool that will process a scanned
>>image of a receipt and create a ready-to-import file of accounts,
>>descriptions, memos, and amounts - with splits?
>>>
>>> : George
>>> -- -- --
>>> Sent by Droid.
>>>
>>> On December 21, 2017 11:56:54 AM PST, John Ralls 
>>wrote:

> On Dec 21, 2017, at 11:42 AM, jeffrey black
  wrote:
> I am using GnuCash (Windoze version) to track multiple sets of
>>books.
> My personal, my farm, my wife's business, and for another family
 members
> personal and business.  Needless to say I am buried up to my ears
>>in
> receipts and would like to go paperless by storing the images in
> GnuCash.  My flatbed scanner works but; is not a reasonable option.
>
> Right now, my budget would have to be a maximum of about $400 USD.
>>I
> need to scan everything from 2 inch wide thermal receipts up to to
 full
> size 8 1/2 X 11  inch receipts.
>
> As soon as I can replace several legacy apps I intend to ditch
 Windoze
> and move everything over to Unix (probably Ubuntu), so
>>compatibility
> would be an issue.
>
> I would like to hear your recommendations.

 I've been very pleased with my Fujitsu ScanSnap. They publish a
>>linux
 driver, see

>>http://www.fujitsu.com/global/support/products/computing/peripheral/scanners/sp/software/ubuntu.html.
 I use mine with a Mac so I can't vouch for that part.

 Regards,
 John Ralls

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>>> .
>>>
>>The main purpose is to just scan the receipts so I can toss the paper
>>in
>>the shredder.
>>
>>IF there is an application/tool that is capable of creating a
>>ready-to-import file that would be a huge bonus.  A large portion of
>>these receipts have multiple splits, which I assume would still be done
>>
>>manually in GnuCash.  The conversion program(s) would also have reside
>>strictly on my computers, no internet processing or fees.
>>
>>--JEffrey Black M.B.A.
>>
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> 

Re: Linux Subsystem for Windows: GnuCash seems to work

[GWB]

Thank you, that sounds worth trying.  To be clear, at the step:

"Turn Windows Features on or off"

Turn Windows Features on, correct?  Or is there a specific way to
activate Windows Subsystem for Linux within Windows Features?

I'm not at Windows 10 yet, but we do keep some Windows machines
around, and at some point we will install 10.  This is good to know.

Gordon

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Edward Doolittle
 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Something that may be of interest to some of you: I just installed the
> Linux Subsystem for Windows 10 (LSW) and successfully ran GnuCash. (I just
> opened the app and then closed it. I'll try more thorough tests later.) I
> don't know who would be interested in this other than developers, but
> perhaps someone out there is having trouble getting GnuCash running
> properly in Windows and could benefit from an alternative.
>
> Note that X applications are not officially supported under LSW, so there
> are occasional bugs (particularly with applications using audio). This is
> definitely a try-at-your-own-risk situation. On the other hand, there's
> nothing particularly special about an X client: it's just an ordinary
> program that communicates with an X server, so I see no problems running an
> X client in LSW as long as an X server is running and the two can
> communicate.
>
> If you are interested in trying, here are the steps:
>
> 1. Install the latest Windows 10 update by running "Windows 10 Update
> Assistant". Reboot.
> 2. Enable Windows Subsystem for Linux by running "Turn Windows Features on
> or off". Reboot.
> 3. Install Ubuntu or another distribution via the Windows Store.
> 4. Run it. Congratulations, you have a Ubuntu bash shell in Windows.
> 5. In the bash shell, "sudo apt-get update"
> 6. In the bash shell, "sudo apt-get install gnucash" (this gets version
> 2.6.12; other versions can be obtained in other ways)
> 7. While that is progressing, install an X server in Windows (if you don't
> have one already). I got Xming from Sourceforge. Make sure the X server is
> running.
> 8. In the Ubuntu bash shell, run "export DISPLAY=:0" (or whatever you need
> to point applications to the correct X server).
> 9. In the Ubuntu bash shell, run "gnucash".
>
> Windows files are accessible in the bash shell and presumably in GnuCash by
> browsing /mnt. I strongly recommend against opening your production GnuCash
> file in WSL/Ubuntu/gnucash; instead, copy your production file from (e.g.)
> /mnt/c/Users/Username/Documents/file.gnucash to /home/username using the
> bash shell and work with the copy instead.
>
> To repeat, I advise caution with this, in particular because X applications
> are not supported in LSW. But it does show great promise, I think.
>
> Edward
>
> --
> Edward Doolittle
> Associate Professor of Mathematics
> First Nations University of Canada
> 1 First Nations Way, Regina SK S4S 7K2
>
> « Toutes les fois que je donne une place vacante, je fais cent mécontents
> et un ingrat. »
> -- Louis XIV, dans Voltaire, Le Siècle de Louis XIV, Chap. XXVI
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Re: [MAINT] Network Work on Code Sunday, Oct 1, 1-4pm EDT

[GWB]

So AT's network equipment works when nothing is connected to it?
Clearly this is a success story.  If the tech had been allowed to try
the new modem, that would have greatly sped up the troubleshooting
process.  If it had worked as before, then problem solved.  If not,
then you could debug your network topography on your side.

That's actually more frustrating than I thought.  Maybe another phone
call to ask them to just please try a different modem before you spend
all that time chasing a problem that might not exist.

I have managed to keep the static (fixed) IP I have, but not without a
struggle.  The solution is sometimes just having a "dumb" modem
connected to the LAN with the switching equipment at the telecomm set
to assign a fixed IP.  Sometimes I have to lease a fixed IP from a
different provider who then contracts with a local telecomm.  In any
event, it's worth it, and necessary.

Check around.  Anywhere from Cambridge to Dedham should be any number
of telecomm trunk leasing outfits.

Gordon

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Derek Atkins <de...@ihtfp.com> wrote:
> [removed -announce]
>
> On Mon, October 2, 2017 6:09 pm, GWB wrote:
>> Derek,
>>
>> Sorry to hear that, and its frustrating.  Perhaps AT could, in the
>> meantime, install a different modem temporarily to see if that solves
>> the problem?  I've been through this with various T line providers,
>> and their default response is often "Something you did", even when the
>> internal set up has not changed in years.  Not all of them do this,
>> but the repair techs are sometimes tied by their instructions from on
>> high.
>
> Alas, they basically said "disconnect all your equipment to prove to us
> it's *OUR* problem", and of course when I did do that I was able to show
> there was no problem.  So from their perspective it's a problem on my end,
> not theirs.
>
> The tech actually did have a new modem box for me, but wasn't allowed to
> install it.  The fact that I have static IPs from them is half the problem
> with why he couldn't just replace the modem.  Also the fact that the
> problem only occurs when my network devices are connected.  :(
>
> I've still got a few avenues to explore.
>
> The fact that it started at midnight just seems suspicious (or highly
> coincidental).
>
> -derek
>
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 12:28 PM, David Carlson
>> <david.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> That might be difficult, as it may be a loose connector or even
>>> corrosion
>>> inside a cable or connector or component in a power supply or ???
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>> David C
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2017 10:42 AM, "Derek Atkins" <warl...@mit.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Just a quick follow-up.
>>>>
>>>> AT did come, and with their help we debugged the network only to
>>>> discover that it's something inside my network that is causing their
>>>> modem to go all futzy.
>>>>
>>>> I'm now in the process of trying to debug further, but it's going to
>>>> take time.  Expect further interuptions until I can isolate the issue.
>>>>
>>>> -derek
>>>>
>>>> Derek Atkins <warl...@mit.edu> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi,
>>>> >
>>>> > tl;dr:  AT is coming to fix some network issues tomorrow, Sunday,
>>>> > between 1-4pm EDT; service can last up to 2 hours and may involve
>>>> > several network outages.
>>>> >
>>>> > LONG VERSION:
>>>> >
>>>> > As some of you may have noticed, there have been some network issues
>>>> to
>>>> > code which started just over a week ago.  One of the downsides was
>>>> > significant packet loss and gncbot disappearing from IRC.  Alas, I
>>>> had
>>>> > been out of the country while this was happening and couldn't start
>>>> to
>>>> > really look into it; I restarted gncbot several times while I was
>>>> away
>>>> > but due to the persistent network issues it regularly would lost
>>>> > contact.
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm seeing anywhere from 20-40% packet loss and ping times to my
>>>> > immediate router anywhere from 200-1000ms (whereas it's usually
>>>> 3-4ms).
>>>> > I called AT, my ISP, and they are sending a tech tomorrow, Sunday,
>>>> > October 1, between 1-4pm EDT.  The maintenance could potentially take
&g

Re: [MAINT] Network Work on Code Sunday, Oct 1, 1-4pm EDT

[GWB]

Derek,

Sorry to hear that, and its frustrating.  Perhaps AT could, in the
meantime, install a different modem temporarily to see if that solves
the problem?  I've been through this with various T line providers,
and their default response is often "Something you did", even when the
internal set up has not changed in years.  Not all of them do this,
but the repair techs are sometimes tied by their instructions from on
high.

Gordon

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 12:28 PM, David Carlson
 wrote:
> That might be difficult, as it may be a loose connector or even corrosion
> inside a cable or connector or component in a power supply or ???
>
> Good luck.
>
> David C
>
> On Oct 2, 2017 10:42 AM, "Derek Atkins"  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just a quick follow-up.
>>
>> AT did come, and with their help we debugged the network only to
>> discover that it's something inside my network that is causing their
>> modem to go all futzy.
>>
>> I'm now in the process of trying to debug further, but it's going to
>> take time.  Expect further interuptions until I can isolate the issue.
>>
>> -derek
>>
>> Derek Atkins  writes:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > tl;dr:  AT is coming to fix some network issues tomorrow, Sunday,
>> > between 1-4pm EDT; service can last up to 2 hours and may involve
>> > several network outages.
>> >
>> > LONG VERSION:
>> >
>> > As some of you may have noticed, there have been some network issues to
>> > code which started just over a week ago.  One of the downsides was
>> > significant packet loss and gncbot disappearing from IRC.  Alas, I had
>> > been out of the country while this was happening and couldn't start to
>> > really look into it; I restarted gncbot several times while I was away
>> > but due to the persistent network issues it regularly would lost
>> > contact.
>> >
>> > I'm seeing anywhere from 20-40% packet loss and ping times to my
>> > immediate router anywhere from 200-1000ms (whereas it's usually 3-4ms).
>> > I called AT, my ISP, and they are sending a tech tomorrow, Sunday,
>> > October 1, between 1-4pm EDT.  The maintenance could potentially take 2
>> > hours once they arrive, but of course it all depends on what the issue
>> > is.
>> >
>> > This will affect code, lists, and wiki services including email, gncbot,
>> > etc.
>> >
>> > I'll attempt to keep people informed over IRC, assuming of course that I
>> > can get online prior to the work being done.
>> >
>> > Please let me know if you have any questions.
>> >
>> > -derek
>>
>> --
>>Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
>>Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
>>URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
>>warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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Re: For UK users: Will gnucash get ready for Making Tax, Digital ?

[GWB]

This reminds me of an earlier question from a user in Sweden.
Apparently governments (Sweden in that case, the UK in this one) are
getting into the habit of specifying not only acceptable tax software
but also accounting software.  The UK has not yet required businesses
of a certain size to use specifically approved tax or accounting
software (have they?), but it seems that Making Tax Digital might lead
there.

But who knows.  I'm averse to having information stored in a digital
format on government servers because it will eventually be hacked,
stolen, or otherwise used for something other than the original and
limited intention (you can pick your favourite bogeyman here; your own
government, the Russians, the Chinese, cyber criminals, etc.)   In a
better world, when HMRC (or the IRS, or the Australia Tax Office)
requires something, it should provide the software to do it, free.  It
appears that in the UK you won't have a choice after 2018.

Thompson Reuters already makes MTD software, or close to it:

https://www.digita.com/pro/making-tax-digital/what-is-making-tax-digital.aspx

Why not ask (and suggest!) HMRC and the MTD office if they will be
paying for the cost of the compliance software?  Users could deduct
the cost of the software from their VAT payments (quarterly?  It's not
clear to me).  And it would be great if the MTD software worked with
gnucash .txf imports.  You can do a lot to customise the txf exports
from gnucash.  Compliance software might already be "write off" (it's
been a while since I looked at the UK regs), but much nicer if paid
for by HMRC up front.

I would worry about keeping "electronic records on transaction basis",
but that's a larger discussion.  It will likely be introduced as a way
to reduce reporting errors, but like FACTA in the US, it will be used
in a way to penalise the vast majority of law abiding citizens and
firms in order to try to dig up criminal activity.

FOSS doesn't work for the reasons Buddha Buck outlined, and more.  It
would be great if someone volunteered to work on a txf export template
for MTD.  Beyond that, I'm not sure how the devs would "hard wire" MTD
(or other jurisdiction specific) features into gnucash that would meet
the requirements of the Swedish or UK governments.  That sounds like a
lot of extra effort even if it were possible.  I think Alain has it
right, and perhaps its easiest to use the txf export from gnucash to
import to another program.

You might be stuck with using gnucash for the bookkeeping, and then
digita for the reporting.  I agree that is "sub optimal", but that
describes tax compliance in most jurisdictions.  Out of curiosity, who
wants MTD?  Is it mostly HMRC and large firms which can easily comply
with new regs to the disadvantage of their smaller competitors?
Sounds like the EU (or the US) to me.  You can like or dislike Brexit,
but one thing it does is give UK citizens more say over their own
governance.  If MTD has been delayed because of Brexit, that's
probably good; the government should be devoting its energies on
something like a Swiss solution to synchronise UK regs with both WTO
and the EU.  MTD seems a lesser priority (but I do agree with you that
the snap general election was a dumb idea).  Sorry you have to put up
with it.

Gordon

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 4:01 AM, Geert Janssens
 wrote:
> A shared library would even better imo. Similar to what aqbanking does for 
> online bank communications.
>
> That would allow for easier integration with gnucash and even other open 
> source applications that wish to interact with HMRC.
>
> Regards,
> Geert
>
> Alain Williams  schreef op 27 juli 2017 11:01:10 CEST:
>>On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:52:41AM +, Buddha Buck wrote:
>>
>>> GnuCash does not currently (to my knowledge) support any
>>> jurisdiction-specify tax policy or reporting requirements. To do so
>>for one
>>> would imply that it should do so for all, and that is a maintenance
>>> nightmare. As such, I think it more likely that someone would write a
>>> program that can take reports or data that GnuCash can already
>>generate
>>> (CSV exports? OFX exports?) and uploads the necessary info to HMRC.
>>
>>A small program that takes a well defined import and can talk the HMRC
>>Making
>>Tax Difficult protocol might be the best way forwards; similar programs
>>could
>>then also be written to talk to the tax people in other countries -
>>without
>>cluttering up the core of Gnucash.
>>
>>I am not sure, however, if this would be enough to keep HMRC happy -
>>they seem
>>to want verification of the whole accounts program ... I am talking
>>about a
>>standalone shim/add-on.
>>
>>I know many companies that have their own accounts s/ware, written over
>>many
>>years that does just what they need. MTD could cause huge problems if
>>there is a
>>lot of effort in getting these certified or if the companies need to
>>change to
>>use an off-the-shelf/bought-in package.
>>
>>I don't 

Re: Accounting for contractors using GnuCash?

[GWB]

I do something like what Christopher suggests.  I have several expense
accounts (Expenses:1stScheduleC:Mileage,
Expenses:2ndScheduleC:Mileage) and the receiving account can be
whatever you like.

Description for each transaction is something like:

2017 Mileage Rate Business Expenses

Memo would be:

39.4 Miles X 2 X $0.535 Correspondence, Deliveries

$0.535 is the IRS mileage rate for that year.

I then put in $42.15 (which is 39.4*2*.535) in the expense column, and
the same amount in the transfer account.

You then have to divide the total amount by the mileage rate when you
do taxes to give you the number of miles.  So maybe Christopher's way
is better.

Gordon

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:29 PM, GWB <g...@2realms.com> wrote:
> Here's what I do, but it might not work for you.
>
> I use two pieces of software for accounting, bookkeeping, and
> compliance: gnucash and prosystemfx from CCH (Wolters Kluwer).
> gnucash is excellent for tracking expenses, but for income amounts I
> rely on 1099's, DIV's, etc.  Similarly, I sometimes use gnucash for a
> very rough way to track equities, options, etc., but I rely on the
> brokerage to figure out valuations in an account, which they do in the
> US with a year end 1099-DIV.  Prosystemfx is not free, open source, or
> cheap, but I have found it teaches me more about tax and compliance
> than anything I ever read in an IRS publication.  I've seen how other
> countries handle taxation, and while not pretty, most of them are less
> convoluted than the US.
>
> I hesitate to use gnucash to track any kind of income, dividends and
> gains other than cash.  State and federal tax authorities will compare
> your return to documentation they get from banks, investment firms,
> etc., on the various forms (1099, W-2).  They will be interested in
> what you have as deductible expenses, so definitely track those in
> gnucash and keep receipts.
>
> If you want your books in gnucash to reflect your current profit/loss
> or net worth, then clearly try to include everything in gnucash,
> including your income, dividends, etc.  But you will find that outside
> of direct payments, gnucash may not be able to mirror closely what
> your investment account gives you at the end of the year in a 1099 or
> a 1099 DIV.
>
> But that's up to you; definitely track the deductible expenses and
> cash income with gnucash, but don't get frustrated with the variance
> between gnucash and an investment account end of year statement (use
> the statement amounts on your tax returns).  This list has lots of
> advice from individuals who use gnucash to track both realised and
> unrealised gains; they can let you know how they handle tax and
> compliance forms.
>
> Most people would advise you to take your data to a tax professional
> and not try to finish a return by yourself.  ProSystemFX is expensive
> (probably north of $500 a year).  The learning curve is steep, but I
> have found it to be an excellent way to understand (at least in part)
> something I never wanted to: the tax code.  I have no complaints about
> Turbo Tax and the other products out there, but they all have trouble
> handling anything other than very common situations.  Multiple
> Schedule C's, partnerships, etc. are not their forte.
>
> My guess, from reading the list, is that you are extremely
> intelligent, capable, and are very good at teaching yourself, and
> self-learning in general.  I'm none of those, but I am forced to be
> something like it when I turn in my tax forms.  So don't let the
> complexity get you down.  Use gnucash to track expenses and cash
> income, and don't freak out if you can't get it to track your other
> income; use the 1099's, W-2 and DIV forms at year end.
>
> Gordon
>
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 6:23 AM, JHC <j...@gs11011.com> wrote:
>> I worked for decades as a contractor in IT. Briefly, what I needed as a
>> single entity was pretty simple, and fell well within the capabilities of
>> GnuCash.
>>
>> I assume here you work as a contractor essentially in a 'do the work, get
>> paid' mode. Whether you operate on a b2b direct mode or in a 1099 mode makes
>> some difference, but as I found that difference was mostly in the fine
>> details. As a b2b operation, my cash flow went to a business account, which
>> then paid me and did all the deductions; that made two gnucash files, one
>> for the business and one for me. That was a minor complexity, but dealing
>> with the business side did cost me time and effort. The business side then
>> deals with things like managing retirement contributions (beyond payroll
>> deductions), quarterlies, and so on. Really straightforward. This does have
>> the advantage of various tax provisions, although not 

Re: Accounting for contractors using GnuCash?

[GWB]

Here's what I do, but it might not work for you.

I use two pieces of software for accounting, bookkeeping, and
compliance: gnucash and prosystemfx from CCH (Wolters Kluwer).
gnucash is excellent for tracking expenses, but for income amounts I
rely on 1099's, DIV's, etc.  Similarly, I sometimes use gnucash for a
very rough way to track equities, options, etc., but I rely on the
brokerage to figure out valuations in an account, which they do in the
US with a year end 1099-DIV.  Prosystemfx is not free, open source, or
cheap, but I have found it teaches me more about tax and compliance
than anything I ever read in an IRS publication.  I've seen how other
countries handle taxation, and while not pretty, most of them are less
convoluted than the US.

I hesitate to use gnucash to track any kind of income, dividends and
gains other than cash.  State and federal tax authorities will compare
your return to documentation they get from banks, investment firms,
etc., on the various forms (1099, W-2).  They will be interested in
what you have as deductible expenses, so definitely track those in
gnucash and keep receipts.

If you want your books in gnucash to reflect your current profit/loss
or net worth, then clearly try to include everything in gnucash,
including your income, dividends, etc.  But you will find that outside
of direct payments, gnucash may not be able to mirror closely what
your investment account gives you at the end of the year in a 1099 or
a 1099 DIV.

But that's up to you; definitely track the deductible expenses and
cash income with gnucash, but don't get frustrated with the variance
between gnucash and an investment account end of year statement (use
the statement amounts on your tax returns).  This list has lots of
advice from individuals who use gnucash to track both realised and
unrealised gains; they can let you know how they handle tax and
compliance forms.

Most people would advise you to take your data to a tax professional
and not try to finish a return by yourself.  ProSystemFX is expensive
(probably north of $500 a year).  The learning curve is steep, but I
have found it to be an excellent way to understand (at least in part)
something I never wanted to: the tax code.  I have no complaints about
Turbo Tax and the other products out there, but they all have trouble
handling anything other than very common situations.  Multiple
Schedule C's, partnerships, etc. are not their forte.

My guess, from reading the list, is that you are extremely
intelligent, capable, and are very good at teaching yourself, and
self-learning in general.  I'm none of those, but I am forced to be
something like it when I turn in my tax forms.  So don't let the
complexity get you down.  Use gnucash to track expenses and cash
income, and don't freak out if you can't get it to track your other
income; use the 1099's, W-2 and DIV forms at year end.

Gordon

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 6:23 AM, JHC  wrote:
> I worked for decades as a contractor in IT. Briefly, what I needed as a
> single entity was pretty simple, and fell well within the capabilities of
> GnuCash.
>
> I assume here you work as a contractor essentially in a 'do the work, get
> paid' mode. Whether you operate on a b2b direct mode or in a 1099 mode makes
> some difference, but as I found that difference was mostly in the fine
> details. As a b2b operation, my cash flow went to a business account, which
> then paid me and did all the deductions; that made two gnucash files, one
> for the business and one for me. That was a minor complexity, but dealing
> with the business side did cost me time and effort. The business side then
> deals with things like managing retirement contributions (beyond payroll
> deductions), quarterlies, and so on. Really straightforward. This does have
> the advantage of various tax provisions, although not as many as I thought;
> most of those provisions applied to me individually, with less number
> farming.
>
> Eventually I found it simpler to fall back to the simpler mode of working
> through a 1099 relationship, sometimes directly to a client but more often
> through headhunters. I worked, got a signed timesheet (usually), submitted
> and was paid. So long as you can report your wages, you can track as much of
> the payroll detail as you like. I did rely on the 1099s at tax time as my
> final total arbiter, which meant that all I really had to track for myself
> was the cash I got, which I applied as income to (from) a bank account. It's
> possible to track all the detail of the payment/deduction stream if you
> like, as well, although I found that unnecessary to my purposes or comfort.
> After that, it's just a matter of tracking expenses to whatever level of
> detail is comfortable to you, given the tax implications of some things
> being more critical than others.
>
> One point might be worth considering. When I worked for multiple clients,
> either sequentially or simultaneously, I did break out both income