Re: [GNC] Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Thanks, Adrien,

Overall, I still prefer my current output. Though it doesn't have the nice
indentation that your example has and that I like, it does show the final
balance for each account in the transaction, which I do like to see.

Sure, I'll file an RFE!

Best,
-P.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 1:34 PM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Peter,
>
> Apologies if any of that came across in a negative way.
>
> I've sent another reply, with screenshots, trying to help you get close
> to what you showed in your example.
>
> There isn't a single report that shows a running balance of all
> transactions between two dates among any selection of more than one
> account.
>
> Certainly, as you have a use for it, others might too.
>
> The best place to request such a report (or modification of the
> Transaction Report) is to file a 'bug' at bugs.gnucash.org with the
> title starting with 'RFE - ' which is Request For Enhancement.
>
> While bugs are usually tackled by the devs first of course, some RFEs
> either aren't hard to implement, or might interest a developer enough to
> give it a shot.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 10/28/22 12:03 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:22 PM Adrien Monteleone <
> > adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:
> >
> >> The term is Print 'dialog'. I attached a screenshot illustrating the
> >> location of the export function.
> >>
> >> Across the top is the app menu, containing sub-menus. Print is not one
> >> of them. (Print is however a function in the File menu, which brings up
> >> the Print dialog.)
> >>
> >> This terminology is clearly used and the menus fully described, along
> >> with where each function is in each menu in the Manual.
> >>
> >
> > In my most recent response in this subthread, I did not claim my
> > terminology was correct; I simply asked what you would call it.
> >
> >> That aside, yes, I figured you were referring to the Print Dialog
> >> (rather than a menu) and no, the option to Export is not there. Why
> >> would you expect it to be? That dialog is for *printing*. (and for a
> >> report, not the book, at that.)
> >>
> >
> > I was printing a report,.
> >
> > You *can* 'print to file' on any report, but that is just storing the
> >> report in its same form, outside of GnuCash.
> >
> >
> > Yes, of course.
> >
> > I don't find the formatting of this particular report to be user-friendly
> > and I was suggesting  alternatives that I thought might be more friendly
> to
> > other users as well, and I gave an example of what another program does,
> > which I think GC would benefit by making possible.
> >
> >> Exporting creates a CSV directly, which can either then be processed by
> >> scripts or other apps, or opened in a Spreadsheet app.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks. I did know that. I will live with what GC currently prints out,
> > though I do think it is sub-optimal.
>
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Re: [GNC] Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:22 PM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> The term is Print 'dialog'. I attached a screenshot illustrating the
> location of the export function.
>
> Across the top is the app menu, containing sub-menus. Print is not one
> of them. (Print is however a function in the File menu, which brings up
> the Print dialog.)
>
> This terminology is clearly used and the menus fully described, along
> with where each function is in each menu in the Manual.
>

In my most recent response in this subthread, I did not claim my
terminology was correct; I simply asked what you would call it.

> That aside, yes, I figured you were referring to the Print Dialog
> (rather than a menu) and no, the option to Export is not there. Why
> would you expect it to be? That dialog is for *printing*. (and for a
> report, not the book, at that.)
>

I was printing a report,.

You *can* 'print to file' on any report, but that is just storing the
> report in its same form, outside of GnuCash.


Yes, of course.

I don't find the formatting of this particular report to be user-friendly
and I was suggesting  alternatives that I thought might be more friendly to
other users as well, and I gave an example of what another program does,
which I think GC would benefit by making possible.

> Exporting creates a CSV directly, which can either then be processed by
> scripts or other apps, or opened in a Spreadsheet app.
>

Thanks. I did know that. I will live with what GC currently prints out,
though I do think it is sub-optimal.

-P.
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Re: [GNC] Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 10:08 AM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> On 10/27/22 2:12 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > I don't think it is possible to create the "hanging paragraph" view from
> > the Options menu, if one is displaying one transaction per line. At
> least,
> > I could not find a way.
>
> That's why I said:
>
>  >> Funny, the way to do that with the Transaction Report is to switch to
>  >> Options > Display > Detail level > 'One split per line'. Now, for each
>  >> account, the split for that account will be first, with the others
>  >> indented.
>
> Give it a try at least. What you are asking for *is* to show the main
> split followed by the others, and *not* to show one transaction per
> line. (Otherwise, which one would 'hang'? They would all be considered
> equal.)



I do hear what you are saying, but the current output makes it difficult to
quickly find break points between transactions.

For my purposes they are all equal, which is why I want one transaction per
line. So I don't care which line comes first. Because all splits are equal,
why would it matter?

What some programs do is give a header line, undented, with date and
description, followed by all splits, indented. I would also find that
acceptable. Example:

2021-01-06 Patreon
Revenues:Dues  -$100
Revenues:Donations  -$71.67
Assets:Cash:Checking  =$4022.18

-P.
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Re: [GNC] Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 10:08 AM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> On 10/27/22 2:12 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:


> Print menu? There is none.
>

Then what would you call the window labeled Print that appears when you
enter Ctl-P from a Report?

-P.
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Re: [GNC] Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi,

I don't think it is possible to create the "hanging paragraph" view from
the Options menu, if one is displaying one transaction per line. At least,
I could not find a way.

Exporting to CSV: I had wanted to do this, but could not find a way. I
expected it to be in the Print menu, but thank you for the hint.

Best,
-P.

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 3:47 PM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> On 10/26/22 1:58 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Thank you for the suggestion about General Journal.
> >
> > I like the way the Account Report is formatted; namely, in "hanging
> > paragraphs" with the first split, only, labeled with the Description.
> This
> > makes it easy to discern the boundaries between transactions.
>
> Funny, the way to do that with the Transaction Report is to switch to
> Options > Display > Detail level > 'One split per line'. Now, for each
> account, the split for that account will be first, with the others
> indented.
>
> You can certainly do this with more than one account, but it might get a
> bit messy overall as transactions will be repeated in each account
> section where they have splits.
>
> You'll have to play with the display options and the General tab for
> sorting to get something you like. (you can leave the Options window
> open and click Apply each time till you're happy with it, then save the
> report configuration)
>
> >
> > But when I ask for running balances, *Reports>Account Report* only shows
> > them for the first account in each transaction and the balances are all
> > shown as zero. The report is labeled Transaction Report. (Even the ledger
> > obtained shown from Tools>General Journal shows zero running balances.)
>
> Yes, the General Journal and its Account Report will show zero balances,
> because a balance here would be non-sensical.
>
> Another option entirely would be to play with exporting your
> transactions to CSV and opening in a Spreadsheet or other app.
>
> Also, note there is an Account Summary Report which shows the balance in
> all accounts. (by default. You can change this to a subset, as well as
> the date of the balances.)
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
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Re: [GNC] Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Thank you for the suggestion about General Journal.

I like the way the Account Report is formatted; namely, in "hanging
paragraphs" with the first split, only, labeled with the Description. This
makes it easy to discern the boundaries between transactions.

But when I ask for running balances, *Reports>Account Report* only shows
them for the first account in each transaction and the balances are all
shown as zero. The report is labeled Transaction Report. (Even the ledger
obtained shown from Tools>General Journal shows zero running balances.)

On the other hand, *Reports>Assets & Liabilities>Transaction Report* gives
the running balance of all accounts in a transaction, and I like to see
that information, though I wish I could obtain the "hanging paragraph"
formatting.

See my two screen shots for examples.

I am using Gnucash 4.11. I'm not sure it's the latest version, so  maybe
what I am looking for appears in a later version.

For what it's worth, it seems a bit odd that a Transaction Report can be
produced in two very different ways that give different results from
seemingly the same options. I do wish the formatting from *Reports>Assets &
Liabilities>Transaction Report* could provide a way to produce the "hanging
paragraph" formatting, perhaps by means of an *Options>Display* checkbox
labeled "Display description only for the first split".

On the other hand, I do like the availability of *Tools>General Journal*
for its own sake, since from it one can focus on a range of transactions
and make changes if necessary. But I don't think there's a need to be able
to make a Transaction Report from it, since it should be possible to create
the desired transaction report from the  *Reports>Assets &
Liabilities>Transaction Report*  in any case.

The last two paragraphs are just my 2¢!

Best,
-P.



On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 12:22 PM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> You may be also interested in viewing the General Journal (Tools menu).
>
> This defaults to 30 days, but you can use View > Filter by... and change
> that to 'all'. (or your desired date range)
>
> Then run Reports > Account Report.
>
> You'll get a similar report with all transactions for all accounts in
> that you were viewing.
>
> As for balancing, certainly checking the Orphan and Imbalance accounts
> is good practice. You can also use the Trial Balance Report. Though I
> think there have been some bugs with it as of late based on list
> messages. Those might only have to do with multi-currency issues however.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 10/26/22 10:47 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Thank you, Adrian.
> >
> > The reason I created the Transaction report was simply to obtain a
> printed
> > record of the transactions from that month to keep on file in order to
> > examine them offline and/or send them to others within my organization.
> >
> > I now realize that the reason I did not get a  total of zero is that I
> did
> > not have all accounts selected. It was your response that led me to
> check.
> > By the way, I did have "One transaction per line" selected.
> >
> > When looking for  imbalances, I do start with the Imbalance total in the
> > balance sheet. If it  is not zero, I assume everything balances.
>
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Re: [GNC] Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Thank you, Adrian.

The reason I created the Transaction report was simply to obtain a printed
record of the transactions from that month to keep on file in order to
examine them offline and/or send them to others within my organization.

I now realize that the reason I did not get a  total of zero is that I did
not have all accounts selected. It was your response that led me to check.
By the way, I did have "One transaction per line" selected.

When looking for  imbalances, I do start with the Imbalance total in the
balance sheet. If it  is not zero, I assume everything balances.

Thanks,
-P.

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 12:18 AM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> The Subtotal in this case is for one month. It represents the net
> (credit in this case) balance *for the chosen accounts* over that
> period. (you could have set subtotal by account first instead of date
> first)
>
> The Grand Total is the net debit/credit over the entire report range -
> *for those account*.
>
> The other splits are not part of these calculations.
>
> In Options > Display > Detail level, try 'One Transaction Per Line'
> instead of 'One Split Per Line' and you'll see this more clearly.
>
> I would not expect to see a zero balance in these spots unless I had
> exactly the same amount of debit as credit, which is pretty odd in any
> one single account, but could happen if you intentionally chose two or
> more accounts that are always on opposite sides of a transaction. Such a
> report wouldn't tell you much however, except documenting that the
> transaction exists.
>
> If you did this intentionally to see if all transactions balanced
> between a set of accounts and didn't get a zero balance, that just means
> at least one transaction involves one or more accounts you did not include.
>
> The Transaction Report can be used for lots of things. The first
> question I'd have for you is, "What question are you trying to answer by
> running it?" This should guide your choice of options.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 10/25/22 10:22 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > What do the Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report
> > signify?
> >
> > Please see the attachment, which shows the last few lines of a
> Transaction
> > Report. For most reports I generate, the values shown are zero, but here
> > both the Total and Grand Total are shown as $20.83
> >
> > I thought at first that this might imply a mismatch between debits and
> > credits, but if that were correct I guess I would see a non-zero balance
> in
> > the Imbalance account. However, the Balance Sheet for the end of the
> month
> > that this Transaction Report includes shows a zero balance in this
> account.
> >
> > The same is true if I look at the Imbalance account in the Register. That
> > is, it has a zero balance.
>
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[GNC] Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi,

What do the Total and Grand Total at the end of a Transaction Report
signify?

Please see the attachment, which shows the last few lines of a Transaction
Report. For most reports I generate, the values shown are zero, but here
both the Total and Grand Total are shown as $20.83

I thought at first that this might imply a mismatch between debits and
credits, but if that were correct I guess I would see a non-zero balance in
the Imbalance account. However, the Balance Sheet for the end of the month
that this Transaction Report includes shows a zero balance in this account.

The same is true if I look at the Imbalance account in the Register. That
is, it has a zero balance.

Thank you, as always,
-P.
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Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Thank you. That is helpful!

-P.


On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 1:47 AM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Peter,
>
> I think the problem stems from your choice of report options.
>
> Namely, by default, 'Account Name' under the Display tab is *not*
> selected, while the 'other account' is.
>
> This is because by default the Sort options are:
>
> Primary: account
> Secondary: register order
>
> So by default, the transactions for each chosen account are grouped
> together, and then those are listed by date. Subtotals are for the
> account. Since the primary sorting key is the account, it is shown like
> in my screenshot on 8/3 circled in yellow. (and also what you indicated
> in your 'I wish it has said' example.) Thus, there is no need to check
> off the option to show 'Account Name' in the Display tab as that would
> be superfluous.
>
> But,
>
> Changing the primary sort to Date (or other similar option) now sets
> that grouping label to an accounting period rather than the account
> name. The account name is no longer visible, but you can of course, turn
> it on in the Display tab.
>
> I've managed to craft a report similar to the desired (3rd) example you
> gave and have attached it.
>
> I've also attached the Options used to achieve it.
>
> It might not be the only or best way to see the info, but it closely
> matches what you indicated you were looking for. Note, I only selected
> the Checking account, there is little need by your example to select
> both it and the Income account as those splits will be represented
> already since the other important preference change was switching the
> Detail Level to 'One Split Per Line' in the Display tab. You can of
> course turn on other info labels in Display, but I turned them off to
> match your example.
>
> Note, the attached example uses Date, rather than the default Account
> Name, as the primary sort key.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 8/16/22 10:44 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > I think at last I see what you all are saying.
> >
> > When I have not displayed account totals, the only account shown on a
> debit
> > or credit line is the *counterpart* of the current leg of the
> transaction;
> > so the line in the last of my four attachments that says "Checking
> Account"
> > and lists $100 as a Credit is actually showing that "Other income"
> received
> > a credit and received it from the Checking Account. The problem is that
> the
> > partner in the account is not named in the display.
> >
> > I find this very confusing, but I do understand it now. I think it would
> > have helped if, without turning on Account totals, the label of each leg
> of
> > the transaction could have maintained the name of the parent account for
> > each line.
> >
> > For instance, instead of just :
> >
> > *Date   Num Description Memo/Notes Transfer from/to  Debit
> > (USD) Credit*
> > 08/16/2022 saleChecking Account
> >   $100.00
> >
> >   I wish it had said:
> >
> > *Date   Num Description Memo/Notes Transfer from/to   Debit (USD)
> > Credit*
> > Other Income:
> > 08/16/2022 saleChecking Account
> > $100.00
> >
> > Still, what I would really like to see is something compact that shows,
> for
> > each transaction, in date order, the date and description of the
> > transaction and then a single line for each leg, the amount involved and
> > whether it is a debit or a credit. For instance:
> >
> > 08/16/2022 sale
> >  *Account Debit Credit*
> >  Checking Account:   $100
> >  Other Income: $100
> >
> > It's the compactness and clarity of the representation, not the exact
> > format, that I'm concerned with.
> >
> > Thanks for all your help. I'll play with the options to see how close I
> can
> > get.___
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Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

I think at last I see what you all are saying.

When I have not displayed account totals, the only account shown on a debit
or credit line is the *counterpart* of the current leg of the transaction;
so the line in the last of my four attachments that says "Checking Account"
and lists $100 as a Credit is actually showing that "Other income" received
a credit and received it from the Checking Account. The problem is that the
partner in the account is not named in the display.

I find this very confusing, but I do understand it now. I think it would
have helped if, without turning on Account totals, the label of each leg of
the transaction could have maintained the name of the parent account for
each line.

For instance, instead of just :

*Date   Num Description Memo/Notes Transfer from/to  Debit
(USD) Credit*
08/16/2022 saleChecking Account
 $100.00

 I wish it had said:

*Date   Num Description Memo/Notes Transfer from/to   Debit (USD)
Credit*
Other Income:
08/16/2022 saleChecking Account
$100.00

Still, what I would really like to see is something compact that shows, for
each transaction, in date order, the date and description of the
transaction and then a single line for each leg, the amount involved and
whether it is a debit or a credit. For instance:

08/16/2022 sale
*Account Debit Credit*
Checking Account:   $100
Other Income: $100

It's the compactness and clarity of the representation, not the exact
format, that I'm concerned with.

Thanks for all your help. I'll play with the options to see how close I can
get.

-P.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 10:49 PM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Sorry, while I did send screenshots on 8/2, my reply on 8/3 contains the
> annotated versions.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 8/16/22 8:25 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> > I sent a reply on 8/2 with annotated screenshots showing the issue using
> > default options save for the account selection.
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi, David,

Please see my last posting.  On MacOS Catalina, the results appear correct
on the Transaction Report, but not on Big Sur.

-P.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 6:24 PM David Cousens 
wrote:

> Peter,
>
> I have done the same thing you did with a brand new account setup and a
> single
> transaction. I have attached the same screenshots but for the transaction
> account have varied the selected accounts. I selected all children of
> either the
> top level assets and Income accounts or both. These are in GnuCash 4.11 on
> Linux
> Mint 21. (I upgraded from LM 20  yesterday).
>
> As you can see we somehow get very different results.  My suspicion is
> that it
> will have something to do with the account selection and filtering options
> in
> the Report Options however I have been unable to duplicate what you have
> in your
> transaction report by varying the selected accounts. I explored the
> options on
> the display tab to see if I could duplicate what you get but couldn't.
>
> It may help if you can list the options you have selected in each tab of
> the
> Report Options dialogue to see if we can define the conditions that are
> producing your result.
>
>  The format ofyour transaction report is slightly different fromn mine
> which
> lists the totals for the selected accounts in bold  rather than the total
> for
> the month but that is the primary total selection in the Sorting tab but
> that is
> still not reversing the Debit/credit columns  as in the last attached copy
> of
> the transaction report.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2022-08-16 at 13:55 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > As an experiment, I started a band new Gnucash file for test purposes. I
> > entered a single transaction. I am attaching a view of the register, a
> > Transaction report and a Balance sheet.
> >
> > You can see that the same thing is happening that happened before:
> > * Register view shows that the checking account was debited.
> > * Balance sheet shows that the checking account, which started at 0, now
> has a
> > positive balance.
> > * Transaction report shows that the column labeled "Credit" shows debits
> and
> > the column labeled "Debit" shows credits, which is backwards.
> > Thus, I think it is clear at the very least that the problem did not
> arise
> > from the switch from 4.6 to 4.11. I also think it shows that I am not
> doing
> > anything wrong, but please correct me if you disagree.
> >
> > I would look forward to suggestions.
> >
> > -P.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Peter S. Shenkin 
> wrote:
> > > Hi, David,
> > >
> > > On the balance sheet, everything is correct; the sums reflecting the
> > > balances of the various real accounts are correct and in agreement
> with the
> > > bank statements; in other words, they reconcile. I also demonstrated
> this in
> > > the very first screen shot I sent when I started the case, the shot of
> the
> > > transaction viewed in the register. In this image, you can see that a
> debit
> > > to a cash account properly increased the cash balance. So I do not see
> how
> > > it is possible to conclude that the transactions were in any way
> entered
> > > incorrectly.
> > >
> > > It is only in the transaction report where the debits are mislabeled as
> > > credits and vice versa.  I do not see how this could be the fault of
> the way
> > > I entered the transactions, which modify the account balances
> concerned in
> > > the proper manner.
> > >
> > > I understand that there are other ways of entering transactions. But
> you did
> > > say, regarding the way I entered them, that "this works". In fact I
> think
> > > the information in the first paragraph above validates the stronger
> > > assertion that "this, in fact, has worked properly for my
> transactsions." .
> > > But if you see a way I could possibly be wrong about that, please do
> suggest
> > > what it might be.
> > >
> > > I agree that nobody we have heard from has had the same problem. But
> there
> > > it is. If you have a suggestion for anything I might try that could
> cast
> > > light upon this, please do let me know.
> > >
> > > One more thing. IIRC, I originally created the account using Gnucash
> 4.6 and
> > > later switched to 4.11. But I do not know whether the same problem
> appeared
> > > when I was using 4.6. I'm skeptical whether this could b

Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi, here is THE ANSWER. It is a Guncash bug.

The previous report was obtained on MacOS 11.6.8 (Big Sur). This gave the
credits and debits mislabeled in the transaction report.

I have access to another mac running 10.16.2 (Catalina). Running the SAME
version of Gnucash (4.11) on the SAME dataset that I used for my single
text transaction, the transaction report, which is attached, is correct.
Debits and credits are reported in the correct columns.

Thus, Gnucash works properly in Big Sur but not in Catalina, at least for
the sub-versions I have access to.

For all I know, in subsequent versions of MacOS, things might again work,
but the two macs I have access to are both at the most recent versions of
MacOS that the respective hardware permits.

-P.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:55 PM Peter S. Shenkin  wrote:

> As an experiment, I started a band new Gnucash file for test purposes. I
> entered a single transaction. I am attaching a view of the register, a
> Transaction report and a Balance sheet.
>
> You can see that the same thing is happening that happened before:
>
>- Register view shows that the checking account was debited.
>- Balance sheet shows that the checking account, which started at 0,
>now has a positive balance.
>- Transaction report shows that the column labeled "Credit" shows
>debits and the column labeled "Debit" shows credits, which is backwards.
>
> Thus, I think it is clear at the very least that the problem did not arise
> from the switch from 4.6 to 4.11. I also think it shows that I am not doing
> anything wrong, but please correct me if you disagree.
>
> I would look forward to suggestions.
>
> -P.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Peter S. Shenkin 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, David,
>>
>> On the balance sheet, everything is correct; the sums reflecting the
>> balances of the various real accounts are correct and in agreement with the
>> bank statements; in other words, they reconcile. I also demonstrated this
>> in the very first screen shot I sent when I started the case, the shot of
>> the transaction viewed in the register. In this image, you can see that a
>> debit to a cash account properly increased the cash balance. So I do not
>> see how it is possible to conclude that the transactions were in any way
>> entered incorrectly.
>>
>> It is only in the transaction report where the debits are mislabeled as
>> credits and vice versa.  I do not see how this could be the fault of the
>> way I entered the transactions, which modify the account balances concerned
>> in the proper manner.
>>
>> I understand that there are other ways of entering transactions. But you
>> did say, regarding the way I entered them, that "this works". In fact I
>> think the information in the first paragraph above validates the stronger
>> assertion that "this, in fact, has worked properly for my transactsions." .
>> But if you see a way I could possibly be wrong about that, please do
>> suggest what it might be.
>>
>> I agree that nobody we have heard from has had the same problem. But
>> there it is. If you have a suggestion for anything I might try that could
>> cast light upon this, please do let me know.
>>
>> One more thing. IIRC, I originally created the account using Gnucash 4.6
>> and later switched to 4.11. But I do not know whether the same problem
>> appeared when I was using 4.6. I'm skeptical whether this could be involved.
>>
>> Best,
>> -P.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 3:18 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 2022-08-03 at 20:28 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>>> > Adrian,
>>> >
>>> > I do have full account names turned on. I forget where I did that. I
>>> have
>>> > no customized sort that affects the order of accounts within a
>>> transaction
>>> > in either register view nor in the transaction report. (I prefer to
>>> sort
>>> > the transactions by date in the transaction report, but that's just
>>> me.)
>>> >
>>> > You point out correctly that in the register view, where transactions
>>> are
>>> > entered, each line of the transaction (which is shown completely in my
>>> > screen shot) shows the debit first (on the left) and credit second, as
>>> is
>>> > customary. I had the labeling of the columns set to the out-of-the-box
>>> > defaults of Increase and Decrease, respectively. This is highly
>>> misleading,
>>> > because in fact both of these accounts increase as the result of the
>>> > transaction. I later change

Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

As an experiment, I started a band new Gnucash file for test purposes. I
entered a single transaction. I am attaching a view of the register, a
Transaction report and a Balance sheet.

You can see that the same thing is happening that happened before:

   - Register view shows that the checking account was debited.
   - Balance sheet shows that the checking account, which started at 0, now
   has a positive balance.
   - Transaction report shows that the column labeled "Credit" shows debits
   and the column labeled "Debit" shows credits, which is backwards.

Thus, I think it is clear at the very least that the problem did not arise
from the switch from 4.6 to 4.11. I also think it shows that I am not doing
anything wrong, but please correct me if you disagree.

I would look forward to suggestions.

-P.


On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Peter S. Shenkin  wrote:

> Hi, David,
>
> On the balance sheet, everything is correct; the sums reflecting the
> balances of the various real accounts are correct and in agreement with the
> bank statements; in other words, they reconcile. I also demonstrated this
> in the very first screen shot I sent when I started the case, the shot of
> the transaction viewed in the register. In this image, you can see that a
> debit to a cash account properly increased the cash balance. So I do not
> see how it is possible to conclude that the transactions were in any way
> entered incorrectly.
>
> It is only in the transaction report where the debits are mislabeled as
> credits and vice versa.  I do not see how this could be the fault of the
> way I entered the transactions, which modify the account balances concerned
> in the proper manner.
>
> I understand that there are other ways of entering transactions. But you
> did say, regarding the way I entered them, that "this works". In fact I
> think the information in the first paragraph above validates the stronger
> assertion that "this, in fact, has worked properly for my transactsions." .
> But if you see a way I could possibly be wrong about that, please do
> suggest what it might be.
>
> I agree that nobody we have heard from has had the same problem. But there
> it is. If you have a suggestion for anything I might try that could cast
> light upon this, please do let me know.
>
> One more thing. IIRC, I originally created the account using Gnucash 4.6
> and later switched to 4.11. But I do not know whether the same problem
> appeared when I was using 4.6. I'm skeptical whether this could be involved.
>
> Best,
> -P.
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 3:18 AM  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2022-08-03 at 20:28 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>> > Adrian,
>> >
>> > I do have full account names turned on. I forget where I did that. I
>> have
>> > no customized sort that affects the order of accounts within a
>> transaction
>> > in either register view nor in the transaction report. (I prefer to sort
>> > the transactions by date in the transaction report, but that's just me.)
>> >
>> > You point out correctly that in the register view, where transactions
>> are
>> > entered, each line of the transaction (which is shown completely in my
>> > screen shot) shows the debit first (on the left) and credit second, as
>> is
>> > customary. I had the labeling of the columns set to the out-of-the-box
>> > defaults of Increase and Decrease, respectively. This is highly
>> misleading,
>> > because in fact both of these accounts increase as the result of the
>> > transaction. I later changed the labels to Debit and Credit, an
>> available
>> > option, which is less misleading, but other than the labels, the
>> > transaction looks exactly the same in both the account register and the
>> > transaction report. That is, the Credit and Debit labels are still
>> reversed
>> > in the transaction log.
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> This seems to be counter to everyone else's experience with GnuCash and
>> definitely is not what occurs in the transaction report in GnuCash 4.11
>> on Linux
>> Mint 20.3.  I suspect if it was occurring specifically on either a MacOSX
>> or
>> Windows systems we would have a large number of experienced users (and
>> some of
>> us are accountants and pretty pedantic about such aspects) complaining
>> pretty
>> loudly.  So we need to work out why your experience is completely
>> opposite to
>> everyone else's or whether it is just a misinterpretation of what is being
>> displayed in the transaction report. In the transaction Report options
>> there is
>> an option in the Display tab to display one t

Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi, David,

On the balance sheet, everything is correct; the sums reflecting the
balances of the various real accounts are correct and in agreement with the
bank statements; in other words, they reconcile. I also demonstrated this
in the very first screen shot I sent when I started the case, the shot of
the transaction viewed in the register. In this image, you can see that a
debit to a cash account properly increased the cash balance. So I do not
see how it is possible to conclude that the transactions were in any way
entered incorrectly.

It is only in the transaction report where the debits are mislabeled as
credits and vice versa.  I do not see how this could be the fault of the
way I entered the transactions, which modify the account balances concerned
in the proper manner.

I understand that there are other ways of entering transactions. But you
did say, regarding the way I entered them, that "this works". In fact I
think the information in the first paragraph above validates the stronger
assertion that "this, in fact, has worked properly for my transactsions." .
But if you see a way I could possibly be wrong about that, please do
suggest what it might be.

I agree that nobody we have heard from has had the same problem. But there
it is. If you have a suggestion for anything I might try that could cast
light upon this, please do let me know.

One more thing. IIRC, I originally created the account using Gnucash 4.6
and later switched to 4.11. But I do not know whether the same problem
appeared when I was using 4.6. I'm skeptical whether this could be involved.

Best,
-P.

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 3:18 AM  wrote:

> On Wed, 2022-08-03 at 20:28 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Adrian,
> >
> > I do have full account names turned on. I forget where I did that. I have
> > no customized sort that affects the order of accounts within a
> transaction
> > in either register view nor in the transaction report. (I prefer to sort
> > the transactions by date in the transaction report, but that's just me.)
> >
> > You point out correctly that in the register view, where transactions are
> > entered, each line of the transaction (which is shown completely in my
> > screen shot) shows the debit first (on the left) and credit second, as is
> > customary. I had the labeling of the columns set to the out-of-the-box
> > defaults of Increase and Decrease, respectively. This is highly
> misleading,
> > because in fact both of these accounts increase as the result of the
> > transaction. I later changed the labels to Debit and Credit, an available
> > option, which is less misleading, but other than the labels, the
> > transaction looks exactly the same in both the account register and the
> > transaction report. That is, the Credit and Debit labels are still
> reversed
> > in the transaction log.
>
> Peter,
>
> This seems to be counter to everyone else's experience with GnuCash and
> definitely is not what occurs in the transaction report in GnuCash 4.11 on
> Linux
> Mint 20.3.  I suspect if it was occurring specifically on either a MacOSX
> or
> Windows systems we would have a large number of experienced users (and
> some of
> us are accountants and pretty pedantic about such aspects) complaining
> pretty
> loudly.  So we need to work out why your experience is completely opposite
> to
> everyone else's or whether it is just a misinterpretation of what is being
> displayed in the transaction report. In the transaction Report options
> there is
> an option in the Display tab to display one transaction per line or one
> split
>  per line.  Using the second option one split  per line, both debit and
> credit
> entries for the transaction will be displayed  but entries not to the
> accounts
> selected in the transaction report will be in the second(and subsequent
> lines
> for transactions with more than two splits) and the different selected
> account
> entries will be listed in sections with the account name at the head. The
> transaction report is possibly the most general of the reports and is
> highly
> customizable from the report options
>
> >
> > You seemed to express uncertainty about the account register. The way I
> > enter transactions is to pick an account (for instance, by clicking on it
> > in a balance sheet). That opens the register tab, set to that account.
> If I
> > am remembering correctly, it will always list that account on the first
> > line of the transaction, then you can add your currency total in either
> the
> > Debit or the Credit column for that account. For the balancing account or
> > accounts (in the case of a split), you similarly enter the currency total
> > for each account on a succeeding line, 

Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

 other from the
> > perspective of the Donation account.
> >
> > I've done a sample transaction with similarly named Asset & Revenue
> > accounts and attached screenshots of the register, the Transaction
> > Report with just Checking selected, and the Transaction Report with both
> > Checking & Donation accounts selected.
> >
> > If your report doesn't look exactly like this save for the specific
> > Description and amount, something is off.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Adrien
> >
> > On 8/2/22 12:05 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> >> Hi, Adrian,
> >>
> >> My first image shows a single transaction (the "wepay to checking"
> >> transaction). But I separately pasted in the Checking balance from the
> >> previous transaction, which is not fully shown. I wanted the reader to
> >> see
> >> that indeed the transaction I did show raised the Checking balance. And
> I
> >> also pasted in the header line from the top of the page.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure which default/non-default options you are referring to.
> >> If you
> >> mean using Debit/Credit headers as register labels instead of
> >> Increase/Decrease, I tried it both ways and it didn't change the
> >> appearance
> >> of the transaction report.
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi, Adrian,

My first image shows a single transaction (the "wepay to checking"
transaction). But I separately pasted in the Checking balance from the
previous transaction, which is not fully shown. I wanted the reader to see
that indeed the transaction I did show raised the Checking balance. And I
also pasted in the header line from the top of the page.

I'm not sure which default/non-default options you are referring to. If you
mean using Debit/Credit headers as register labels instead of
Increase/Decrease, I tried it both ways and it didn't change the appearance
of the transaction report.

Thanks,
-P.


On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 12:01 AM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> I just upgraded to 4.11 (but I'm still on BigSur, though that should not
> matter) and ran a transaction report on one of my asset accounts and it
> works as expected.
>
> I'll note that your the screenshot of your Transaction report looks like
> you have *two* transactions with the same date, not both sides of a
> single transaction. It also doesn't look anything like what I see how
> that report is formatted and what info is included with default options.
>
> If you didn't use the default options, give that a whirl and see if it
> looks correct. Also make sure your registers have only one of those
> transactions, not two. (you only enter it once, with a split for each
> account, you don't enter it in each register separately)
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 8/1/22 10:08 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Regarding my question ("Possible GC bug?"), I just reread your response
> and
> > realized that you actually said that in your hands it works correctly; I
> > had thought you said the opposite.
> >
> > So though it could possibly be a bug just on MacOS (unless you're also on
> > MacOS), I rather suspect that there is something screwy in the settings
> > somewhere.
>
>
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> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Regarding my question ("Possible GC bug?"), I just reread your response and
realized that you actually said that in your hands it works correctly; I
had thought you said the opposite.

So though it could possibly be a bug just on MacOS (unless you're also on
MacOS), I rather suspect that there is something screwy in the settings
somewhere.

-P.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 11:04 PM Peter S. Shenkin  wrote:

> Hi, David,
>
> I did try using both Increase/Decrease and Debit/Credit labeling in the
> register, but the transaction report is unchanged.
>
> I also saw an option in Preferences for Reversing either Credit Accounts,
> or Income & Expense Accounts, or None. I really have no idea what that is
> about, but GC seems to have been supplied with Credit Accounts selected, so
> I thought I'd try with None. It didn't change the transaction report, so I
> set it back to Credit Accounts.  I'll RTFM on that sometime, but it doesn't
> appear to have anything to do with this...
>
> Possible GC bug?
>
> -P.
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 10:52 PM  wrote:
>
>> Peter
>> I do agree the Debit and Credit column headers appear to be reversed on
>> the
>> Transaction Report in your original post . I have just run a Transaction
>> report
>>  (GC 4.11) on one of my bank accounts and it reports my income (payments
>> into
>> the account)  correctly as debits and expenses (payments from the
>> account) as
>> credits. I thought it could possibly be related to the use of the
>> non-accounting
>> labels which I tend to use rather than the informal headers. I have just
>> changed
>> to the informal headers in my preferences and rerun the transaction
>> report and
>> the column headers are still correct so that does not appear to be the
>> problem.
>> Did that transaction come out with debits and credits correctly in the
>> account
>> register  when you selected the formal accounting labels preference?
>> David Cousens
>>
>> On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 19:35 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I made up the name "transaction entry" because I didn't know what to
>> call
>> > it.  I didn't know there was such a thing as a transaction entry
>> window.
>> >
>> > If I had the Donations account open, I would have had the same kind of
>> > problem.
>> >
>> > Per Gyle's suggestion it looks like I can switch to the good old Credit
>> /
>> > Debit labels.
>> >
>> > Also, the second part of my question involved the Transaction report.
>> There
>> > the headings at the top seem backwards. They are labeled Credit and
>> Debit, but
>> > where I entered a Debit, it appears in the Credit column and vice
>> versa.  Any
>> > comment on this?
>> >
>> > -P.
>> > On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 6:23 PM  wrote:
>> > > Peter
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The terms Increase and Decrease in the header only apply to the
>> account
>> > > whose
>> > >
>> > > register you have open not to the accounts which are the target of the
>> > >
>> > > individual split(entry) of the transaction and not to the account
>> which is
>> > >
>> > > designated in the second split. It would appear that you have the
>> register
>> > > for
>> > >
>> > > your checking account open and a debit entry is an Increase in that.
>> If
>> > > there
>> > >
>> > > was a credit split/entry to your checking account it would appear in
>> the
>> > >
>> > > decrease column. The second line of the transaction is the
>> corresponding
>> > > credit
>> > >
>> > > entry to the revenue account. This is why we accountants find the
>> headers
>> > >
>> > > Increase/Decrease confusing.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > You are not making entries in a "transaction entry" window in GnuCash
>> but
>> > > you
>> > >
>> > > are performing the transaction entry directly into the register for
>> that
>> > > account
>> > >
>> > > itself.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > David Cousens
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 17:13 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi, I'm using Gnucash 4.11 on MacOS 11.6

Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi, David,

I did try using both Increase/Decrease and Debit/Credit labeling in the
register, but the transaction report is unchanged.

I also saw an option in Preferences for Reversing either Credit Accounts,
or Income & Expense Accounts, or None. I really have no idea what that is
about, but GC seems to have been supplied with Credit Accounts selected, so
I thought I'd try with None. It didn't change the transaction report, so I
set it back to Credit Accounts.  I'll RTFM on that sometime, but it doesn't
appear to have anything to do with this...

Possible GC bug?

-P.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 10:52 PM  wrote:

> Peter
> I do agree the Debit and Credit column headers appear to be reversed on the
> Transaction Report in your original post . I have just run a Transaction
> report
>  (GC 4.11) on one of my bank accounts and it reports my income (payments
> into
> the account)  correctly as debits and expenses (payments from the account)
> as
> credits. I thought it could possibly be related to the use of the
> non-accounting
> labels which I tend to use rather than the informal headers. I have just
> changed
> to the informal headers in my preferences and rerun the transaction report
> and
> the column headers are still correct so that does not appear to be the
> problem.
> Did that transaction come out with debits and credits correctly in the
> account
> register  when you selected the formal accounting labels preference?
> David Cousens
>
> On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 19:35 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I made up the name "transaction entry" because I didn't know what to call
> > it.  I didn't know there was such a thing as a transaction entry
> window.
> >
> > If I had the Donations account open, I would have had the same kind of
> > problem.
> >
> > Per Gyle's suggestion it looks like I can switch to the good old Credit /
> > Debit labels.
> >
> > Also, the second part of my question involved the Transaction report.
> There
> > the headings at the top seem backwards. They are labeled Credit and
> Debit, but
> > where I entered a Debit, it appears in the Credit column and vice
> versa.  Any
> > comment on this?
> >
> > -P.
> > On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 6:23 PM  wrote:
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The terms Increase and Decrease in the header only apply to the account
> > > whose
> > >
> > > register you have open not to the accounts which are the target of the
> > >
> > > individual split(entry) of the transaction and not to the account
> which is
> > >
> > > designated in the second split. It would appear that you have the
> register
> > > for
> > >
> > > your checking account open and a debit entry is an Increase in that.
> If
> > > there
> > >
> > > was a credit split/entry to your checking account it would appear in
> the
> > >
> > > decrease column. The second line of the transaction is the
> corresponding
> > > credit
> > >
> > > entry to the revenue account. This is why we accountants find the
> headers
> > >
> > > Increase/Decrease confusing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You are not making entries in a "transaction entry" window in GnuCash
> but
> > > you
> > >
> > > are performing the transaction entry directly into the register for
> that
> > > account
> > >
> > > itself.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > David Cousens
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 17:13 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi, I'm using Gnucash 4.11 on MacOS 11.6.8.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > There are two images attached, labeled Transaction entry and
> Transaction
> > >
> > > > report. They are two different views of the same transaction, to a
> non
> > >
> > > > profit that I am doing the books for.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > The transaction involves a deposit to our checking account from
> Wepay.
> > > It's
> > >
> > > > a donation, which we account for under Revenue:Donations, which
> increases
> > >
> > > > with a Credit, and the bank account will increase with a Debit, so
> this
> > >
> > > > should be properly balanced.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > However, from the Transaction-entry screen shot, where the column

Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

My entry is not backwards.

In the first of my attachments you can see how I entered the Checking debit
in the register and you can also see that it in fact increased the
Assets...Checking Balance.

Yet in the transaction report, it is reported as a Credit, which is
backwards.

-P.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 9:02 PM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> The report is correct.
>
> Your entry is backwards.
>
> Open your Checking register.
>
> Then View > Transaction Journal (now you see all splits for all
> transactions, nothing hidden)
>
> This particular transaction should be:
>
> dr. Checking
> cr. Donations
>
> That will increase *both* the amount in your checking account, and the
> revenue received as donations.
>
> Note, 'credit' increases Income, Liabilities, & Equity accounts; 'debit'
> increases Assets & Expenses.
>
> Preferences > Accounts > Reverse balanced accounts usually defaults to
> 'Credit Accounts' to reflect the above.
>
> If you want to see Credit accounts as normally negative instead of
> positive, change this setting. But I'd recommend leaving it as is for
> now till you get the hang of double-entry and the Accounting Equation.
> (and you might opt to never change it, nothing wrong with that)
>
> An easy way to 'flip' a transaction is to simply put negative signs in
> front of the amounts. GnuCash will move them from debit to credit and
> vice versa. (all amounts in a register are positive except Balance which
> may be negative)
>
> The idea with double entry is not necessarily to increase *and* decrease
> something in the same transaction, though that can occur.
>
> In this particular case, money is coming in from outside, so both sides
> of the transaction need to increase.
>
> If you were paying down a liability, money going out, then both sides
> would decrease.
>
> It is only when you are moving funds between accounts but not in or out
> of your book that you get both an increase & decrease in the same
> transaction.
>
> *finally, you can see all splits for a single transaction using the View
>  > Auto-Split mode, or if in Basic mode, use the Split button on the
> toolbar. You don't need to leave Transaction Journal mode on unless you
> prefer it. (and there is a preference to set the default view mode for
> all registers)
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 8/1/22 6:35 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Also, the second part of my question involved the Transaction report.
> There
> > the headings at the top seem backwards. They are labeled Credit and
> Debit,
> > but where I entered a Debit, it appears in the Credit column and vice
> > versa.  Any comment on this?
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Actually on the Mac, that setting is in Gnucash > Preferences > Accounts >
Label

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 7:29 PM Peter S. Shenkin  wrote:

> That is useful information! Thank  you. I found Increase and Decrease
> perfectly understandable until it didn't work. 
>
> -P.
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 7:28 PM Gyle McCollam  wrote:
>
>> Under "Edit/Preferences/Accounts/Labels" if you check the box you will
>> get standard accounting labels with Debits and Credits.  This may be less
>> confusing to you than Increase and Decrease.
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> *Gyle McCollam*
>>
>> Gyle McCollam
>>
>> gmccol...@live.com    email
>> --
>> *From:* gnucash-user 
>> on behalf of Peter S. Shenkin 
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 1, 2022 5:13 PM
>> *To:* gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org 
>> *Subject:* [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry
>> and report forms
>>
>> Hi, I'm using Gnucash 4.11 on MacOS 11.6.8.
>>
>> There are two images attached, labeled Transaction entry and Transaction
>> report. They are two different views of the same transaction, to a non
>> profit that I am doing the books for.
>>
>> The transaction involves a deposit to our checking account from Wepay.
>> It's
>> a donation, which we account for under Revenue:Donations, which increases
>> with a Credit, and the bank account will increase with a Debit, so this
>> should be properly balanced.
>>
>> However, from the Transaction-entry screen shot, where the column labels
>> are Increase and Decrease, I have to enter the Donation as a Decrease in
>> order to make the Donation record increase. This is bizarre, is it not?
>>
>> You can see in the same image that the checking balance goes up. so it
>> seems to be properly recorded as a debit; in addition, though not shown,
>> the sum of Donations does goes up, which seems contrary to having to enter
>> it as a Decrease.
>>
>> Now look at the second screenshot, the Transaction-report view for this
>> transaction. What is especially strange here is that the labels of the
>> Debit and Credit columns are exactly reversed. It says that the Checking
>> side of the transaction is a Credit and the Donation side is a Debit,
>> which
>> is exactly backwards.
>>
>> Any insight, including any aspect due to my own foolishness and/or
>> inexperience, would be appreciated.
>>
>> -P.
>>
>
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Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi,

I made up the name "transaction entry" because I didn't know what to call
it.  I didn't know there was such a thing as a transaction entry window.

If I had the Donations account open, I would have had the same kind of
problem.

Per Gyle's suggestion it looks like I can switch to the good old Credit /
Debit labels.

Also, the second part of my question involved the Transaction report. There
the headings at the top seem backwards. They are labeled Credit and Debit,
but where I entered a Debit, it appears in the Credit column and vice
versa.  Any comment on this?

-P.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 6:23 PM  wrote:

> Peter
>
> The terms Increase and Decrease in the header only apply to the account
> whose
> register you have open not to the accounts which are the target of the
> individual split(entry) of the transaction and not to the account which is
> designated in the second split. It would appear that you have the register
> for
> your checking account open and a debit entry is an Increase in that.  If
> there
> was a credit split/entry to your checking account it would appear in the
> decrease column. The second line of the transaction is the corresponding
> credit
> entry to the revenue account. This is why we accountants find the headers
> Increase/Decrease confusing.
>
> You are not making entries in a "transaction entry" window in GnuCash but
> you
> are performing the transaction entry directly into the register for that
> account
> itself.
>
> David Cousens
>
> On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 17:13 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Hi, I'm using Gnucash 4.11 on MacOS 11.6.8.
> >
> > There are two images attached, labeled Transaction entry and Transaction
> > report. They are two different views of the same transaction, to a non
> > profit that I am doing the books for.
> >
> > The transaction involves a deposit to our checking account from Wepay.
> It's
> > a donation, which we account for under Revenue:Donations, which increases
> > with a Credit, and the bank account will increase with a Debit, so this
> > should be properly balanced.
> >
> > However, from the Transaction-entry screen shot, where the column labels
> > are Increase and Decrease, I have to enter the Donation as a Decrease in
> > order to make the Donation record increase. This is bizarre, is it not?
> >
> > You can see in the same image that the checking balance goes up. so it
> > seems to be properly recorded as a debit; in addition, though not shown,
> > the sum of Donations does goes up, which seems contrary to having to
> enter
> > it as a Decrease.
> >
> > Now look at the second screenshot, the Transaction-report view for this
> > transaction. What is especially strange here is that the labels of the
> > Debit and Credit columns are exactly reversed. It says that the Checking
> > side of the transaction is a Credit and the Donation side is a Debit,
> which
> > is exactly backwards.
> >
> > Any insight, including any aspect due to my own foolishness and/or
> > inexperience, would be appreciated.
> >
> > -P.
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

That is useful information! Thank  you. I found Increase and Decrease
perfectly understandable until it didn't work. 

-P.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 7:28 PM Gyle McCollam  wrote:

> Under "Edit/Preferences/Accounts/Labels" if you check the box you will get
> standard accounting labels with Debits and Credits.  This may be less
> confusing to you than Increase and Decrease.
>
> Thank You,
>
> *Gyle McCollam*
>
> Gyle McCollam
>
> gmccol...@live.comemail
> --
> *From:* gnucash-user 
> on behalf of Peter S. Shenkin 
> *Sent:* Monday, August 1, 2022 5:13 PM
> *To:* gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org 
> *Subject:* [GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry
> and report forms
>
> Hi, I'm using Gnucash 4.11 on MacOS 11.6.8.
>
> There are two images attached, labeled Transaction entry and Transaction
> report. They are two different views of the same transaction, to a non
> profit that I am doing the books for.
>
> The transaction involves a deposit to our checking account from Wepay. It's
> a donation, which we account for under Revenue:Donations, which increases
> with a Credit, and the bank account will increase with a Debit, so this
> should be properly balanced.
>
> However, from the Transaction-entry screen shot, where the column labels
> are Increase and Decrease, I have to enter the Donation as a Decrease in
> order to make the Donation record increase. This is bizarre, is it not?
>
> You can see in the same image that the checking balance goes up. so it
> seems to be properly recorded as a debit; in addition, though not shown,
> the sum of Donations does goes up, which seems contrary to having to enter
> it as a Decrease.
>
> Now look at the second screenshot, the Transaction-report view for this
> transaction. What is especially strange here is that the labels of the
> Debit and Credit columns are exactly reversed. It says that the Checking
> side of the transaction is a Credit and the Donation side is a Debit, which
> is exactly backwards.
>
> Any insight, including any aspect due to my own foolishness and/or
> inexperience, would be appreciated.
>
> -P.
>
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[GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi, I'm using Gnucash 4.11 on MacOS 11.6.8.

There are two images attached, labeled Transaction entry and Transaction
report. They are two different views of the same transaction, to a non
profit that I am doing the books for.

The transaction involves a deposit to our checking account from Wepay. It's
a donation, which we account for under Revenue:Donations, which increases
with a Credit, and the bank account will increase with a Debit, so this
should be properly balanced.

However, from the Transaction-entry screen shot, where the column labels
are Increase and Decrease, I have to enter the Donation as a Decrease in
order to make the Donation record increase. This is bizarre, is it not?

You can see in the same image that the checking balance goes up. so it
seems to be properly recorded as a debit; in addition, though not shown,
the sum of Donations does goes up, which seems contrary to having to enter
it as a Decrease.

Now look at the second screenshot, the Transaction-report view for this
transaction. What is especially strange here is that the labels of the
Debit and Credit columns are exactly reversed. It says that the Checking
side of the transaction is a Credit and the Donation side is a Debit, which
is exactly backwards.

Any insight, including any aspect due to my own foolishness and/or
inexperience, would be appreciated.

-P.
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Re: [GNC] Symbolic links (MacOSX)

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Thanks. My symlink works; I can cd into the tree via the symlink in a
terminal session, open files in the through it, etc.

Thanks for your response anyway. I'm just going to keep using Gnucash from
the copy I made.

-P.

On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 11:55 AM john  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jul 23, 2022, at 10:38 AM, Peter S. Shenkin 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm getting back to gnucash after a long hiatus. I'm also starting up
> using
> > Gnucash on a different computer. So I copied the Gnucash directory to
> > ~/Documents/work/Foo/ on the new computer. (The name Foo was changed to
> > protect the innocent. Or is it the guilty?)
> >
> > Gnucash had been in ~/work/Foo on the old computer, so set up a symbolic
> > link in ~/work called Foo pointing to ~/Documents/work/Foo. To my
> surprise,
> > I got a msg that Gnucash couldn't parse the URL, and another, after
> > dismissing that dialog, that Gnucash could not open the file.
> >
> > Eventually, as kind of a Hail-Mary pass, I replaced the symlink with an
> > actual copy (cp -pR) of the Foo directory from ~/Documents/work to
> ~/work,
> > and then Gnucash could read it.
> >
> > This struck me as extremely bizarre. I have two questions.
> >
> >   - Can Gnucash really not read through symlinks on MacOS?
> >  - Note that my Privacy settings allow Gnucash to read the
> ~/Documents
> >  directory, to which the symlink points.
> >  - In retrospect, I guess I should have tried using a MacOS "alias"
> >  instead of a symlink, but I don't know if that would have worked
> > any better.
> >  - There is nothing in Privacy to specify that Gnucash can read ~ or
> >  ~/work, but apparently this is not needed.
> >   - Suppose I now want to tell Gnucash to use the data in
> >   ~/Documents/Foo/Gnucash. Is there a way for me to do this without
> losing my
> >   history? (Or my sanity?)
>
> I just tested a regular symlink and an alias. GnuCash had no trouble
> opening a file through the symlink using File/Open or subsequently
> reopening the file on launch. Perhaps you misspelled something when you
> made the symlink.
>
> Navigating through macOS alias files requires opening files through
> CFURL.  boost::filesystem doesn't know how to do that so neither does
> GnuCash. FWIW bash and zsh don't either.
>
> GnuCash has access to Documents, Downloads, Desktop, and Network drives in
> System Settings>Privacy & Security>Files and Folders (I'm running macOS 13
> developer beta on this mac). It does not have full disk access.
>
> I suppose that the history you have in mind is the list of most recently
> used files at the bottom of the File menu. The simplest way to migrate to
> the new directory is to use File>Open  to open each in turn ***bottom to
> top***.
>
> Regards,
> John Rals
>
>
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[GNC] Symbolic links (MacOSX)

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi,

I'm getting back to gnucash after a long hiatus. I'm also starting up using
Gnucash on a different computer. So I copied the Gnucash directory to
~/Documents/work/Foo/ on the new computer. (The name Foo was changed to
protect the innocent. Or is it the guilty?)

Gnucash had been in ~/work/Foo on the old computer, so set up a symbolic
link in ~/work called Foo pointing to ~/Documents/work/Foo. To my surprise,
I got a msg that Gnucash couldn't parse the URL, and another, after
dismissing that dialog, that Gnucash could not open the file.

Eventually, as kind of a Hail-Mary pass, I replaced the symlink with an
actual copy (cp -pR) of the Foo directory from ~/Documents/work to ~/work,
and then Gnucash could read it.

This struck me as extremely bizarre. I have two questions.

   - Can Gnucash really not read through symlinks on MacOS?
  - Note that my Privacy settings allow Gnucash to read the ~/Documents
  directory, to which the symlink points.
  - In retrospect, I guess I should have tried using a MacOS "alias"
  instead of a symlink, but I don't know if that would have worked
any better.
  - There is nothing in Privacy to specify that Gnucash can read ~ or
  ~/work, but apparently this is not needed.
   - Suppose I now want to tell Gnucash to use the data in
   ~/Documents/Foo/Gnucash. Is there a way for me to do this without losing my
   history? (Or my sanity?)

Thanks,
-P.
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Re: [GNC] Inserting the Beginning Balances of Accounts in Gnucash

[Peter S. Shenkin]

I recently made a query here about the Gnucash "Close Books" facility. It
was only about a week ago. The original poster  might like to look at the
responses, because they seem relevant here.

-P.

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 9:49 PM David Cousens 
wrote:

> Hi Jose,
>
> The process of adding the opening balances in a new book for you asset and
> liability accounts should create the value of the total equity from your
> previous set of books in equity so your total equity should be correct and
> it will be the sum of all the transactions to the Equity:Opening Balances
> account at this point.
>
> You want to have the appropriate balances in the equity sub accounts
> corresponding to the closing balances for those accounts in your previous
> set of books. As the total of Equity should already match, you can only
> achieve this by transferring the amount of the closing balance in the
> previous book for a specific Equity sub account to that account from the
> Equity:Opening Balances account in the new book.
>
> For example if when you closed your previous set of books the
> Equity:Retained Earnings balance was a  positive or credit balance of $1000
> you would have to create a transaction in your new books as follows
>
> Equity:Opening Balances   Dr 1000
> Equity:Retained Earnings Cr 1000
>
> to effect this transfer. (If the equity account had a negative or debit
> balance, you would exchange the debits and credits). This will ensure you
> will not double count your equity.
>
> I think from memory the opening balances tool in the new book setup will
> not
> allow you to enter these transactions between equity sub accounts and the
> Equity: Opening Balances account. I am not sure of this though as I haven't
> tested it. If it doesn't, then you will have to create the transactions as
> above  manually either in the Equity:Opening Balances register or in the
> register for the equity account you for which you wish to set the initial
> balance.
>
> David Cousens
>
>
>
> -
> David Cousens
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] Gnucash Close Books option

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi,

I'm just forwarding the response from "Michael or Penny Novack" to the
list; it was just sent to me directly.

Overall, I think it will be easiest for me to just use "Close Books"
annually. Per Derek's suggestion, if you have to correct the closed year,
"you can delete the closing transactions and re-run the Close Books to
recreate the (edited) transaction".

So the procedure, as I understand it, would be:

   1. Close year X and proceed with year X+1
   2. Notice an error in year X accounts
   3. "Unclose" year X by deleting the closing transactions.
   4. Modify year X as desired.
   5. Close year X again.

-P.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:29 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Since several things, I'll do little by little. But first, "closing the
> books" goes back to the old, days of pen and ink on paper bookkeeping
> (what I learned). With  bound books, usual to begin the new year with a
> fresh volume. Also, the P report had to be created manually and came
> into existence in the process (first all income and expense accounts
> closed to the special "profit and loss" account and then that closed to
> equity).
>
> Gnucash, like most other accounting software, can produce the P
> whenever you like without closing the books.
>
>
> > What I don't understand (based on this writeup
> > ) is exactly how it works.
> >
> > - Following closing the books on year X, will the Dec 31, year X
> > balances still reflect the year-X income and expenses, or will they
> have
> > been zeroed at that point?
> If you FIRST make a copy of the file (maybe name pre-close-YE-202x) and
> then close the books and make a second copy (maybe name
> "post-close-YE-202x) you will have preserved both before and after the
> close operation.
> > - If so, it would be difficult to go back and correct something that
> was
> >done mistakenly during year X, would it not?
> THAT is a whole other kettle of fish. Traditionally you do not "go back
> and correct" but instead make a correction entry. when the error is
> discovered*. But as I just noted, if you kept a pre close copy you could
> change entries (and then rerun first copy, close, second copy) if you
> are being less fussy/formal about your bookkeeping with PERSONAL books.
> If keeping books for an organization or business, consider doing it the
> :right" way.
> > - Does the new Equity result appear on Jan 1, year X+1?
> >- If the two results appear on different days, it would appear
> that
> >Gnucash can't do this by means of a transaction, because a
> > transaction (as
> >I understand it) takes place at a single moment in time.
> >- I have heard that to get around this, some accounting software
> >creates a fictional date (like Dec 32 or Jan 0) on which it
> performs the
> >transferring transactions, so that Dec 31, year X reflects the
> closing
> >balances for the year and Jan 1 is initialized with the new
> > balances. But I
> >think there would have been mention of this if that is the way
> > Gnucash does
> >it.
>
> ROFLOL, yes that's what we did where I worked. But it was our own in
> house software and the calendar program "knew" that some dates were
> "special". Most applications like gnucash can't do this because they use
> ordinary date validation. If you look again at what I wrote about before
> and after copies you will see that you can have in effect TWO December
> 31sts, the pre close 31st and the post close 31st.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
> * This provides and example of WHY I was told not to create finish
> reports directly out of gnucash (as a software pro, although just with a
> reading knowledge of LISP could have handled the Scheme). The point is,
> going to need to insert annotations in the financial reports presented
> to the board(s). If going to need the ability to edit anyway, why not
> just export raw reports and then when in the editor deal with pretty
> printing, fonts, etc. a the same time adding any necessary annotations
> << correction of an error in a previous time period would almost always
> need a notation >>
>
>
>
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[GNC] Gnucash Close Books option

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi,

I'm using Gnucash 4.3 on MacOS. This version has a "Close Books" option.

I do understand that using this option, Income and Expenses can be made to
transfer to an equity subaccount (like Equity:Starting balance).

I also understand that there are alternatives to using this option, but in
this query I am just trying to find out in more detail what Close Books
does.

What I don't understand (based on this writeup
) is exactly how it works.

   - Following closing the books on year X, will the Dec 31, year X
   balances still reflect the year-X income and expenses, or will they have
   been zeroed at that point?
   - If so, it would be difficult to go back and correct something that was
  done mistakenly during year X, would it not?
   - Does the new Equity result appear on Jan 1, year X+1?
  - If the two results appear on different days, it would appear that
  Gnucash can't do this by means of a transaction, because a
transaction (as
  I understand it) takes place at a single moment in time.
  - I have heard that to get around this, some accounting software
  creates a fictional date (like Dec 32 or Jan 0) on which it performs the
  transferring transactions, so that Dec 31, year X reflects the closing
  balances for the year and Jan 1 is initialized with the new
balances. But I
  think there would have been mention of this if that is the way
Gnucash does
  it.

Thank you,
-P.
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Re: [GNC] CSS selectors for alternating rows and individual columns on the Account page?

[Peter S. Shenkin]

This sounds like a good reason to use Qt. 

(A cross-platform GUI building tool.)

-P.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 11:45 AM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> I poked around with the inspector quite a bit when GnuCash moved to
> GTK3, and as far as I can tell, the content of the Account Page (save
> the header bar) is not exposed to styling, sorry. (that is, the entire
> account table 'tree' is one CSS node and the individual items, rows, and
> columns are not accessible to CSS)
>
> You could employ a very ugly workaround though:
>
> Set every other account to have the background color you want, then turn
> on: Preferences > Accounts > Account Color > Show the Account Color as
> background.
>
> The downside is you'd need to do this for every other account manually,
> and then when you collapse parts of the tree, your striping will break.
> (and then you can't use other custom colors) You could maybe just set
> the parent accounts to have a background color, so that when everything
> is expanded, there is some visual separation.
>
> *note, I've found the page easier to read and see the hierarchy when I
> turned *off*: Preferences > General > General > Enable vertical grid
> lines on table displays.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 2/23/21 9:18 PM, Evelyn Yamanaka wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm using GNUCash 4.4 on Windows 10, and I'm trying to customize the
> > appearance of the Account page using the CSS file:
> >
> > %APPDATA%\GnuCash\gtk-3.0.css
> >
> > I can't figure out how to modify alternating rows (background color)
> > or individual columns (e.g. the "Account Name" column) on the Account
> > page because I don't know the CSS selector for those items.
> >
> > I've used the GTK Inspector to identify other elements. But I can't
> > figure out the CSS path for these two items. I've tried the following,
> > in case the tree in the Account page behaved like an HTML table, but
> > neither worked:
> >
> > #gnc-id-account-tree tr:nth-child(even) {
> >  background-color: #888;
> > }
> > #gnc-id-account-tree td:nth-child(1) {
> >  background-color: #888;
> > }
> >
> > More info, including a screenshot for reference, can be found here:
> >
> https://superuser.com/questions/1627977/what-are-the-css-selectors-for-alternating-rows-and-specific-columns-in-gnucash
> >
> > Would appreciate any help figuring out which CSS selectors to use, or
> > just letting me know if it's impossible to do. Thanks.
>
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Re: [GNC] Transaction Reconcile behavior differences

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Perhaps I’m wrong about this (still a neophyte) but I have the idea that
the accounting concept of reconciliation applies to external accounts.

In GC 4.3, if a transaction is imbalanced, it show up with an “Imbalance”
amount. Does this not suffice for internal account transfers?

External transactions as well have to be balanced within the accounting
system and will show up as an imbalance if they are not, but in addition,
have to be reconciled with the external account balances, if I understand
“reconciliation” correctly.

-P.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 7:52 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:

> It is certainly possible that the behavior changed between 3.2 and 4.2
>
> -derek
> Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
> On February 23, 2021 7:38:59 AM John Nickell  wrote:
> > I believe on Linux I was running 3.2 (last note that I have which
> > references a version), but I did a destructive update and can't confirm
> > that now. On Windows I'm running 4.2
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 6:17 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:
> > What version were you using on Linux?
> > What version on windows?
> > Most likely this is a change of behavior due to different gnucash
> versions
> > and not change of OS.
> >
> > -derek
> > Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
> >
> > On February 23, 2021 7:14:40 AM John Nickell 
> wrote:
> >
> >> I recently switched from GnuCash on Linux Mint to GnuCash on Windows. I
> >> brought the same GnuCash data file over between computers.
> >>
> >> My checking account is setup in GnuCash as a parent account with
> multiple
> >> sub accounts to the checking account.
> >> When reconciling (including sub accounts) on Linux if I selected a
> >> transaction that had multiple splits or was simply a transfer among sub
> >> accounts, all of the transaction splits that were part of that same
> >> transaction would also be marked as reconciled. (i.e. their box would be
> >> checked and the reconcile balance would reflect a $0 change.)
> >>
> >> When reconciling on Windows I'm having to reconcile each split
> individually
> >> and if the transaction is between two sub accounts within the checking
> >> account I must reconcile both the debit and the credit action
> separately.
> >>
> >> Is this expected and desired on the Windows version of GnuCash, or is
> there
> >> a setting I'm missing so that a reconciling "part" of a transaction
> >> reconciles all of the transaction within the account?
> >>
> >> I'm not looking for a reconciliation in my checking account to reconcile
> >> the transaction split in the savings account, but for transaction splits
> >> that are within the same parent checking account being reconciled I'd
> like
> >> to see similar behavior as I saw on the Linux version. Or at least
> >> understand this is 'expected'.
> >>
> >> I've made pretty heavy use of these split transaction types and this
> >> unexpected difference in transferring OS's has slowed down my
> >> reconciliation process.
> >>
> >> If an example helps:
> >> I us a single transaction to transfer a $1000 paycheck into three sub
> >> accounts. $300 for Automobile, $500 for Savings, $200 for Food.  All are
> >> still within the same parent checking account. In Linux checking the
> box to
> >> reconcile the $200 food transaction would also check the Automobile,
> >> Savings and $1000 split.  In my experience with Windows all 4
> transaction
> >> splits must be "checked" individually.
> >>
> >> Checking
>  Food
>  Automobile
>  Savings
> >> Thanks
> >> ___
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-- 
-P.
Sent from a cell phone. Pls forgive brvty and m1$tea@ks.
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Re: [GNC] Expense Over Time report

[Peter S. Shenkin]

I'm a beginner, too, and here's what I would do. This may be largely
repetition of the previous discussion, but I'm repeating for clarity (I
hope).

To keep yourself honest and eliminate temporary confusions, display which
accounts are placeholders: On the list of accounts, the header line starts
with "Account Name".  All the way to the right is a down-pointing triangle.
Click it and check "Placeholder". A new column will appear with boxes
(some checked) indicating whether each account is a Placeholder or not,
meaning, as I think you know, that that account cannot be deposited in
directly; rather, all deposits made to that account must specify a
subaccount to use.  Displaying the Placeholder column will make it clear if
you've forgotten to declare any branches as placeholders.

If you're going to do this, it would make sense to name accounts in a
manner similar to this simple example, where P indicates a paceholder

Expenses P
   Medical
   Charity
   Other

So if Expenses is a placeholder account, you would place anything that is
not in Medical or Charity in Expenses:Other.

Of course Medical and Charity could have subaccounts, in which case you
could make them Placeholders as well. For instance, you could make add a
Medical:Other account to track expenses that you didn't set up categories
for. For example:

Expenses P
   Medical P
  Doctor
  Dentist
  Other
   Charity
   Other

Then medical expenses other than Doctor and Dentist would go into
Expenses:Medical:Other, whereas an expense that is neither medical nor
charity would continue to go into Expenses:Other.

As far as general accounting rules are concerned, you could, if you wish,
eliminate the Placeholder properties and the "Other" subaccounts. Then put
what would ordinarily go into XYZ:Other directly into XYZ. Either system is
consistent with accounting rules, which really just require you to record
expenses in such a way that you can make sure you fulfill and later justify
that you have met your legal and tax obligations. But without placeholders,
to answer the question "What expenses are not in subaccounts," you'd have
to add up the sum of the subaccount expenses and subtract this from the
total branch expenses. So I find the Placeholder/Other method clearer, but
not everyone does and it's not required.

I should say that I don't know how what I've described (and what you appear
to be doing now) works with the "Level" specification, because I have never
used that.

-P.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 6:33 PM gnu Gord  wrote:

> Thank you to everyone that replied.
> I'm still a bit confused as to why I can select the accounts to
> include/exclude plus I can/need to select the level. It seems redundant to
> me but maybe in some situations it's required.
>
> In my example, it appears I have created my hierarchy incorrectly. The
> suggestions I received seem to say I should have no transactions in branch
> accounts and only in leaf accounts. (I didn't realize I needed to be a
> gardener to do accounting!) LOL
> I rearranged my example and it seems the report options work more the way I
> would expect, but I'm still not clear on the level vs. account selection.
>
> To summarize the way I understand it, all but the lowest level accounts
> should be marked as Placeholder accounts (or at least have no
> transactions). Is this closer to 'standard' accounting practice?
>
> Here is the way I've redone the example. With "Expenses", "L2" and "L3" all
> having the Placeholder option ticked:
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 11:36 AM Dale Alspach  wrote:
>
> > Some accounting software, e.g., Quickbooks, use a virtual leaf  "Other"
> in
> > reports to remove any ambiguity when there are  transactions in a branch
> > account which are not in a leaf.  Thus a report for the situation L3 $100
> > transaction and L4 $500 transaction would display
> > L3
> >   L4 500
> >   L3 - Other 100
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 8:04 AM D. via gnucash-user <
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Geoff,
> > >
> > > That was an excellent answer, and explains clearly a big reason why
> users
> > > should strive to limit their transactions to leaf nodes in the account
> > > hierarchy. (My own books include numerous violations of this premise,
> > BTW)
> > > Gnucash has always allowed users to put transactions in intermediate
> > level
> > > accounts, which some in the community have felt was Not Good, although
> > I've
> > > been a little more equivocal about it. I'm not sure, but there may be
> an
> > > outstanding bug request on the behavior.
> > >
> > > I *do* think Gord's final question is an interesting one. It might be
> > > useful to conduct some tests to see the interaction between account
> > > selection and level setting in the various reports that use that method
> > of
> > > grouping, and then update the docs with information.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > David T.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Original Message 

Re: [GNC] The man who saw everything twice....

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Thank you, Micheal.

I wanted them at the top, so the following works for that:

   - Parent account balances = Subtotal
   - Parent account subtotals = Do not Show.

Thank you again,
-P.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 1:54 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

> That's the right place. Make the selection that you want.
>
> For example, if like me you want the total afterwards, you want (for
> "Parent account balances" to be "do not show" and for "parent account
> subtotal" you want "show subtotals".
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>- Parent account balances
>   - Subtotal (I have this selected)
>   - Account Balance
>   - Do not show
>- Parent account subtotals
>   - Show subtotals (I have this selected)
>   - Do not show
>   - Text book style (experimental)
>
> It's not impossible that I am missing it somewhere, but if so, please tell
> me where to look.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] The man who saw everything twice....

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Thanks.

   - Parent account balances
  - Subtotal: Shows subaccount balances twice, as shown.
  - Account Balance: Shows $0 on the parent-account line and the
  correct balance after all sub-account balances have been listed.
  - Leaves out the $0 amounts in Account Balance.

Overall, what I have is better for my purposes than the alternative,

-P.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 11:37 AM Maf. King  wrote:

> On Sunday, 24 January 2021 15:03:42 GMT Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> >- Parent account balances
> >   - Subtotal (I have this selected)
> >   - Account Balance
> >   - Do not show
> >- Parent account subtotals
> >   - Show subtotals (I have this selected)
> >   - Do not show
> >   - Text book style (experimental)
>
>
> Try a different setting for the top choice, rather than showing subtotal
> in
> both choices.
>
> 0.02, haven't actually checked on my GC installation.
>
> Maf.
>
>
> --
> Maf. King
> PGP Key fingerprint = 8D68 A91F 733B 2C1F 43B7  2B7C E591 E8E1 0DE7 C542
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] The man who saw everything twice....

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Christopher, thank you for confirming that there is no way to do this.

But then, where does Michael's comment come from, to the effect that

'One of the things you get to choose is how you see "subtotals" - none,
before, after, or both.'


???

Is Michael perhaps using an in-development version?

-P.



On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 10:18 AM Christopher Lam 
wrote:

> > Why do Gnucash balance sheets print account and subaccount totals twice:
> once at the beginning of each such account and again at the end?
>
> Because you'd selected Subtotal on both options as you described. This is
> a long-standing wart/bug because it's nonsensical to allow subtotals to be
> shown both before and after each account+subaccounts. And it's impossible
> to fix this behaviour without angering many long term users. The "next-gen"
> balance sheet is in the experimental reports menu; the latter will never
> show subtotals twice.
>
>
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2021, 11:04 pm Peter S. Shenkin,  wrote:
>
>> Please tell me where this option is.
>>
>> I already said that I didn't see an option for this. I looked before
>> posting and just looked again. I don't see anything like what you
>> mentioned. I believe I have been through all the Options and in fact I got
>> as far as I did by specifying several. For example, I see the following
>> options in Display that pertain to the account balances:
>>
>>- Parent account balances
>>   - Subtotal (I have this selected)
>>   - Account Balance
>>   - Do not show
>>- Parent account subtotals
>>   - Show subtotals (I have this selected)
>>   - Do not show
>>   - Text book style (experimental)
>>
>> It's not impossible that I am missing it somewhere, but if so, please tell
>> me where to look.
>>
>> I also looked in Preferences > Reports, but I see nothing relevant there
>> either.
>>
>> -P.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 9:28 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
>> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > On 1/24/2021 12:26 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>> > > Gnucash 4.3 on a mac.
>> > >
>> > > Why do Gnucash balance sheets print account and subaccount totals
>> twice:
>> > > once at the beginning of each such account and again at the end?
>> > >
>> > > It adds a large number of extra lines and no new information, and
>> > > balance-sheet examples from (the few) accounting books on my shelf do
>> not
>> > > do this.
>> > >
>> > > I find this very annoying and cannot find an option to turn this off.
>> Is
>> > > there a hidden way? Or even an obvious way that I'm just missing?
>> > >
>> > Edit => Report Options
>> >
>> > One of the things you get to choose is how you see "subtotals" -
>> > none, before, after, or both. Sounds like you are doing both. Just turn
>> > off the one you don't want and keep the one you do want. My personal
>> > preference is "after" so that's what I specify.
>> >
>> > I will suggest again, anybody new to gnucash should spend a little time
>> > investigating the options available to each report used. You don;t have
>> > to accept the defaults.
>> >
>> > Michael D Novack
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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Re: [GNC] The man who saw everything twice....

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Please tell me where this option is.

I already said that I didn't see an option for this. I looked before
posting and just looked again. I don't see anything like what you
mentioned. I believe I have been through all the Options and in fact I got
as far as I did by specifying several. For example, I see the following
options in Display that pertain to the account balances:

   - Parent account balances
  - Subtotal (I have this selected)
  - Account Balance
  - Do not show
   - Parent account subtotals
  - Show subtotals (I have this selected)
  - Do not show
  - Text book style (experimental)

It's not impossible that I am missing it somewhere, but if so, please tell
me where to look.

I also looked in Preferences > Reports, but I see nothing relevant there
either.

-P.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 9:28 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 1/24/2021 12:26 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Gnucash 4.3 on a mac.
> >
> > Why do Gnucash balance sheets print account and subaccount totals twice:
> > once at the beginning of each such account and again at the end?
> >
> > It adds a large number of extra lines and no new information, and
> > balance-sheet examples from (the few) accounting books on my shelf do not
> > do this.
> >
> > I find this very annoying and cannot find an option to turn this off. Is
> > there a hidden way? Or even an obvious way that I'm just missing?
> >
> Edit => Report Options
>
> One of the things you get to choose is how you see "subtotals" -
> none, before, after, or both. Sounds like you are doing both. Just turn
> off the one you don't want and keep the one you do want. My personal
> preference is "after" so that's what I specify.
>
> I will suggest again, anybody new to gnucash should spend a little time
> investigating the options available to each report used. You don;t have
> to accept the defaults.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
>
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[GNC] The man who saw everything twice....

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Gnucash 4.3 on a mac.

Why do Gnucash balance sheets print account and subaccount totals twice:
once at the beginning of each such account and again at the end?

It adds a large number of extra lines and no new information, and
balance-sheet examples from (the few) accounting books on my shelf do not
do this.

I find this very annoying and cannot find an option to turn this off. Is
there a hidden way? Or even an obvious way that I'm just missing?

Thanks,
-P.
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Re: [GNC] Requesting a trial balance as of a specified date

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Never mind. After running the report, I could select the date in Options.

-P.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 8:27 PM Peter S. Shenkin  wrote:

> If I want to print out the trial balance of an account as of a specified
> date, how (in the program) do I specify the date?
>
> Oddly, when I just ask for the trial balance (from Reports), I get the
> trial balance as of 12/31/1969. I'd have thought the default would be the
> date of the last transaction.
>
> I looked in the Help manual and through the Tutorial and Concepts Guide,
> but could not find this information. Of course, I could have missed it.
>
> Thank you,
> -P.
>
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[GNC] Requesting a trial balance as of a specified date

[Peter S. Shenkin]

If I want to print out the trial balance of an account as of a specified
date, how (in the program) do I specify the date?

Oddly, when I just ask for the trial balance (from Reports), I get the
trial balance as of 12/31/1969. I'd have thought the default would be the
date of the last transaction.

I looked in the Help manual and through the Tutorial and Concepts Guide,
but could not find this information. Of course, I could have missed it.

Thank you,
-P.
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Re: [GNC] Setting up accounts for account number order

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Edit each of the top-level accounts (via the Edit button).

Add exactly the account numbers you've just shown for each account. (You
can also add numbers to the subaccounts if they need to be in a specified
order, too. but they should all share the same first digit of their
superaccounts. If you don't add numbers to the subaccounts, they will still
appear under their superaccounts, but not in a fixed order.

Then, in the main window (list of accounts), click  the down arrow on the
upper right and check "Account Code", then click back in the main window to
dismiss the dialog. You should now see an Account Code column containing
the account numbers you entered earlier.

Click on the Account Code column's header cell to sort by Account Code. A
second click will reverse the sort order.

I hope this helps.

-P.



On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 11:03 PM John G Sullivan 
wrote:

> I’ve used GnuCash for years; although, I never worded about account number
> order. Most of the time I exported reports and then manipulated the order
> or just looked at them in whatever method they displayed. I always want to
> figure out the system. Now I need to know since one account is am working
> requires it from top to bottom; sub accounts and all.
>
> 1000assest
> 2000liabilities
> 3000equity
> 4000income
> 5000expense
>
> I have seen something a couple of years ago; however, I can’t find it now.
> Any pointers, places to look. Too easy or too hard?
>
> Thanks
>
> John
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Re: [GNC] Recent list in file menu

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hmm could that be because there were only four files stored so far in
mystery-memory because of the previous setting? What happens if you open a
fifth file, exit the program and then restart? Do you see five?

-P.

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 1:31 PM Michael Hendry 
wrote:

> > On 17 Jan 2021, at 18:03, Michael Hendry 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 17 Jan 2021, at 16:07, Chris Graves  wrote:
> >>
> >> defaults write -app Gnucash "/org/gnucash/history/maxfiles” 6
> >
> > Well spotted!
> >
> > I think I tried every other possible combination I could find in the man
> page for “defaults”.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
> PS Just one problem - although this creates a new key
> "/org/gnucash/history/maxfiles" and sets its value to 6, I still get only
> the default of 4 recently-used files in my MRU list when I start Gnucash.
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts

[Peter S. Shenkin]

No apology needed. It happens to all of us. 

-P.

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 1:07 AM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Apologies for the 'noise' Peter. At the time I sent my reply, I didn't
> see *any* answers to your questions. (which appears to be an issue with
> how I access the mailing list, not you or those who replied.) I'm glad
> you've got it worked out.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 1/16/21 9:49 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Hi, Andrien,
> >
> > And thanks.
> >
> > If you look back up to the last email of mine in this thread, you will
> see
> > that all the issues I mentioned have been successfully addressed.
> >
> > I've now set up all my accounts and have created opening balances by
> means
> > of transactions involving each account together with Equity:Opening
> > Balances, as you (and others) suggested.
>
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Re: [GNC] Recent list in file menu

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi,

FWIW, I don't think anything I said was Big-Sur-specific, but I thought I'd
specify it, well, just because 

-P.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 11:32 PM Peter West  wrote:

> I don’t have Big Sur, but I can just drag the icon from the Applications
> folder opened in FInder, onto the Dock. Then I can start Gnucash by
> double-clocking the icon in the dock. I suppoe it depends how busy you Dock
> is already.
>
> peter
>
> > On 17 Jan 2021, at 1:41 pm, Peter S. Shenkin  wrote:
> >
> > On Big Sur, I have Gnucash installed directly under /Applications, which
> is
> > the default Installer option.
> >
> > I either double-click the icon, or, in a Terminal window, type "open
> > /Applications/Gnucash.app".
> >
> > If you have Gnucash.app installed somewhere else, just type open  path
> > to>/Gnucash.app. Once it opens, the icon will appear in the side bar. You
> > can then right click on it and select Options > Keep in dock. From then
> on,
> > you can just click the icon.
> >
> > FWIW (for geeks), I have a function set up in my .bashrc. The declaration
> > says:
> >
> > appo() {
> ># "appo Foo" will recite "open /Applications/Foo.app"
> >open /Applications/$1.app
> > }
> >
> >
> > The comment (beginning with the # sign) tells how I start an app that's
> in
> > /Applications from a Terminal session. For Gnucash, I just say "appo
> > Gnucash". (The mnemonic is "app open".)
> >
> > I hope the above helps.
> >
> > -P.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 9:05 PM David H  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi David,
> >>
> >> Yes tried it without and get "Couldn't find an application named
> "Gnucash";
> >> defaults unchanged" so it definitely seems to need the folder name in
> >> addition to the app name.  Might uninstall on my Macbook Pro later and
> >> re-install to apps folder only and see if it makes any difference.
> >>
> >> Cheers David H.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 09:30, David Reiser  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Have you tried without the extra directory info?
> >>> man defaults says that the -app flag specifies the name of the app,
> not a
> >>> directory. I haven’t tested it myself, and the manfile is a bit vague
> on
> >>> details here. But since defaults write is writing to the pfile in
> >> Library,
> >>> it doesn’t have to know the location of Gnucash. Gnucash reads the
> pfile
> >> on
> >>> launch, so it shouldn’t matter where the app is stored.
> >>> --
> >>> Dave Reiser
> >>> dbrei...@icloud.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jan 16, 2021, at 5:54 PM, David H  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi David,
> >>>>
> >>>> Been playing around with that exact same setting for a while now but
> it
> >>>> doesn't seem to work on my Big Sur / Gnucash 4.4 system.
> >>>>
> >>>> My setup is slightly different in that I installed Gnucash in
> >>>> /Applications/GnuCash as opposed to /Applications itself, so I've been
> >>>> tinkering with
> >>>>
> >>>> defaults write -app GnuCash/Gnucash "/org/gnucash/history/maxfiles" 5
> >> but
> >>>> no luck so far
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers David H.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 07:52, David Carlson <
> >> david.carlson@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Searching the archives of this list I found a thread a year ago.
> This
> >>>>> suggestion was part way through the thread: <
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2020-January/089080.html>
> >>>>> It seems to be only for Mac computers so there is no info that I
> could
> >>> find
> >>>>> for Linux or Windoze.  For either it might be an OS or workspace
> >>> setting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 12:51 PM Stephen M. Butler <
> >>>>> stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 1/16/21 9:15 AM, Michael Hendry wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 15 Jan 2021, at 03:30, David C

Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi, Andrien,

And thanks.

If you look back up to the last email of mine in this thread, you will see
that all the issues I mentioned have been successfully addressed.

I've now set up all my accounts and have created opening balances by means
of transactions involving each account together with Equity:Opening
Balances, as you (and others) suggested.

-P.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 10:35 PM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> On 1/15/21 11:53 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I've recently volunteered to take over as treasurer of a non-profit. The
> > previous treasurer was keeping his accounts with a different (tty-based)
> > system and I wanted to try Gnucash instead.
> >
> > 1. After having set up my accounts, I looked at the documentation and saw
> > that Opening Balances are supposed to be entered when accounts are first
> > created. Is there a workaround, or do I have to go through the whole
> > account setup process again? And what do you do if you make a mistake!
> (No
> > transactions have been made so far.)
>
> There is nothing special about an Opening Balances entry. It is simply a
> transaction balanced between whatever account is in question and
> "Equity:Opening Balances", and can be entered at any time after the
> initial setup, if not done during setup.
> >
> > 2. I wanted to keep Equity under Liabilities (only because the previous
> > treasurer was doing this), but after I put it there (with the Opening
> > Balances subaccount beneath it), GnuCash created a top-level Opening
> > Balances account. When I delete it, it comes back. Is there a way I can
> use
> > the schema with Equity under Liabilities?
>
> I am not certain, but that is certainly not standard accounting
> behavior/practice as I understand it.
>
> The 'basic' accounting equation is: Assets = Liability + Equity
>
> Therefore, Equity is not a sub-account of Liability, but its own
> 'top-level' account. It should not be (maybe depending on legal
> jurisdiction) listed under Liability.
> >
> > 3. Is there a way to set the top-level display order of accounts other
> than
> > by using the "optional" account numbering scheme and ordering by the
> > numbers?
>
> Not sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you be more specific?
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
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Re: [GNC] Recent list in file menu

[Peter S. Shenkin]

On Big Sur, I have Gnucash installed directly under /Applications, which is
the default Installer option.

I either double-click the icon, or, in a Terminal window, type "open
/Applications/Gnucash.app".

If you have Gnucash.app installed somewhere else, just type open /Gnucash.app. Once it opens, the icon will appear in the side bar. You
can then right click on it and select Options > Keep in dock. From then on,
you can just click the icon.

FWIW (for geeks), I have a function set up in my .bashrc. The declaration
says:

appo() {
# "appo Foo" will recite "open /Applications/Foo.app"
open /Applications/$1.app
}


The comment (beginning with the # sign) tells how I start an app that's in
/Applications from a Terminal session. For Gnucash, I just say "appo
Gnucash". (The mnemonic is "app open".)

I hope the above helps.

-P.


On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 9:05 PM David H  wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Yes tried it without and get "Couldn't find an application named "Gnucash";
> defaults unchanged" so it definitely seems to need the folder name in
> addition to the app name.  Might uninstall on my Macbook Pro later and
> re-install to apps folder only and see if it makes any difference.
>
> Cheers David H.
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 09:30, David Reiser  wrote:
>
> > Have you tried without the extra directory info?
> > man defaults says that the -app flag specifies the name of the app, not a
> > directory. I haven’t tested it myself, and the manfile is a bit vague on
> > details here. But since defaults write is writing to the pfile in
> Library,
> > it doesn’t have to know the location of Gnucash. Gnucash reads the pfile
> on
> > launch, so it shouldn’t matter where the app is stored.
> > --
> > Dave Reiser
> > dbrei...@icloud.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 16, 2021, at 5:54 PM, David H  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi David,
> > >
> > > Been playing around with that exact same setting for a while now but it
> > > doesn't seem to work on my Big Sur / Gnucash 4.4 system.
> > >
> > > My setup is slightly different in that I installed Gnucash in
> > > /Applications/GnuCash as opposed to /Applications itself, so I've been
> > > tinkering with
> > >
> > > defaults write -app GnuCash/Gnucash "/org/gnucash/history/maxfiles" 5
> but
> > > no luck so far
> > >
> > > Cheers David H.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 07:52, David Carlson <
> david.carlson@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Searching the archives of this list I found a thread a year ago.  This
> > >> suggestion was part way through the thread: <
> > >>
> >
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2020-January/089080.html>
> > >> It seems to be only for Mac computers so there is no info that I could
> > find
> > >> for Linux or Windoze.  For either it might be an OS or workspace
> > setting.
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 12:51 PM Stephen M. Butler <
> > >> stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 1/16/21 9:15 AM, Michael Hendry wrote:
> > > On 15 Jan 2021, at 03:30, David Carlson <
> david.carlson@gmail.com
> > >
> > >>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe I searched for the wrong term.  I would never have guessed to
> > >>> search
> > > for plist or mru, for example.
> >  I’ve found the relevant file here:
> > 
> >  ~/Library/Preferences/org.gnucash.Gnucash.plist
> > 
> >  but I can’t locate the Key that defines the maximum number of
> > >>> recently-used files for display (hereinafter called “MRU_MAX"), which
> > >>> defaults to 4 on my iMac Catalina running 4.4.
> > 
> >  I notice that the Keys org.gnucash.history.file0 to
> > >>> org.gnucash.history.file9 contain fully qualified filenames for the
> ten
> > >>> books I have opened most recently, which suggests that MRU_MAX up to
> 10
> > >>> could be supported if the default of 4 were changed.
> > 
> >  There seems not to ba a way of adjusting MRU_MAX using GnuCash’s
> > >>> Preferences, so I’m stuck!
> > 
> >  Regards,
> > 
> >  Michael
> > >>> Check the recent archives as I remember a discussion that if the key
> > >>> entry doesn't exist, it defaults to 4.  You have to create the entry
> > >>> name/value pair in order to change it.  They gave the key name in
> that
> > >>> discussion.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
> > >>> stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
> > >>> kg...@arrl.net
> > >>> 253-350-0166
> > >>> ---
> > >>> GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8
> > >>>
> > >>> ___
> > >>> gnucash-user mailing list
> > >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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> > >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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> > >>> -
> > >>> Please remember to CC this list on all 

Re: [GNC] Newby questions opening accounts

[Peter S. Shenkin]

First, to all who responded, Thank you. Summary follows:

Q1: (Adding Opening Balances after setting up the account) Yes, using
transactions is the obvious solution. Clearly, I am an accounting newby as
well as a Gnucash newby.

Q2: (Whether I can keep Equities under Liabilities) I was told by the
previous treasurer (who is a finance guy) that this is the accepted
International (as opposed to GAAP) practice. Perhaps I misunderstood, but
I'm reverting back to keeping Equity separate, because that is what Gnucash
likes.

Q3: (How to order my accounts in my favored arbitrary order) It appears
that numbering them and then ordering by number is the only way.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 3:33 AM David Cousens 
wrote:

> Peter,
> Just one other point. the numbering of the top level accounts will also
> affect the order in which they appear in reports. I may have given the
> impression that this wasn't the case in my first post.
>
> David Cousens
>
>
>
> -
> David Cousens
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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[GNC] Newby questions opening accounts

[Peter S. Shenkin]

Hi

I've recently volunteered to take over as treasurer of a non-profit. The
previous treasurer was keeping his accounts with a different (tty-based)
system and I wanted to try Gnucash instead.

1. After having set up my accounts, I looked at the documentation and saw
that Opening Balances are supposed to be entered when accounts are first
created. Is there a workaround, or do I have to go through the whole
account setup process again? And what do you do if you make a mistake! (No
transactions have been made so far.)

2. I wanted to keep Equity under Liabilities (only because the previous
treasurer was doing this), but after I put it there (with the Opening
Balances subaccount beneath it), GnuCash created a top-level Opening
Balances account. When I delete it, it comes back. Is there a way I can use
the schema with Equity under Liabilities?

3. Is there a way to set the top-level display order of accounts other than
by using the "optional" account numbering scheme and ordering by the
numbers?

Thank you,
-P.
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