Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 00:28:35 -0400 Jediator wrote: > The use case: I was importing credit card transactions to an account > via csv. After importing, all transactions got double-entried to the > default Inbalanced-USD account. After changing the Inbalanced-USDs to > the correct expense accounts for all the imported transactions, I > realized that I wasn't using negated amount for the credit card > before importing. So I decided to get rid of the credit card > account and create and re-import everything from scratch (luckily GC > allows you to do this), thus the inconsistency problem. > > Thanks! Another way of approaching this is to duplicate your book for the purpose of learning how to run an import or other more complex job. Then you can import the transactions, and instead of having to try to delete stuff, just start again on a fresh copy until everything is to your satisfaction Liz ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
I believe John is correct... GnuCash gives the option to do a true delete (presumably for the case of an import error, as in the case of the OP). When I first saw the OP, I wondered why anyone would ever want to delete an account and all the transactions, but if an import messed up, and the plan is to re-do it, it makes sense. On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 5:01 PM Gyle McCollam wrote: > John, > for the 1st time, I have to disagree with you. If you delete the > transactions when you delete an account it is not only an accounting issue, > but will seriously mess up your other accounts. Say there are debits > (deposits) and credits (withdrawals) from your checking account. If the > account your deleting has been around for years, good luck trying to get > your bank account to balance after those entries are gone. > > > Thank You, > > Gyle McCollam > > Gyle McCollam > > gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email > > > From: john > Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:44 AM > To: Gyle McCollam > Cc: Maf. King ; Mark ; > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account > > Yeah, it's a bug. It's supposed to delete the transactions, not just the > splits in that account only to recreate them in an imbalance account. > Otherwise it's the same as the move to account option. > > The fact that it's poor accounting practice is beside the point. If the > user wants to follow good accounting practice they can choose to move the > splits to another account. > > Regards, > John Ralls > > > On Sep 5, 2023, at 08:18, Gyle McCollam wrote: > > > > No Mark, it is not a bug. If you made credit card purchases and > subsequent payments to that card, those transactions have already been made > and if you were to delete an account and the transaction within, it would > be the same as if the transactions had never happened and they did. > Gnucash, offering to move them to another account is the only way not to > screw up all the account affected by the account you are deleting. > > > > > > Thank You, > > > > Gyle McCollam > > > > Gyle McCollam > > > > gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email > > > > ____________ > > From: gnucash-user > on behalf of Mark via gnucash-user > > Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:04 AM > > To: Maf. King > > Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account > > > > > > Sep 5, 2023 08:33:44 Maf. King : > > > >> I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with > the > >> choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see > >> screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) > >> > >> Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the > >> transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. > >> > >> One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, > and > >> GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know > what > >> the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, > not a > >> delete. > >> > >> Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I > think I > >> agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to > delete > >> an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them > still > >> existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog box) > > > > Ah, it's been a while since I deleted an account, and I don't remember > the option to delete all transactions being there (maybe I just forgot). I > agree that is confusing at least, and maybe a bug. > > > > I don't think I would ever use that option, though. That seems like a > confusing side effect to have transactions deleted by deleting an account. > Maybe I'm just used to the way GnuCash has done things. > > ___ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > - > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > __
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Gyle, How can you not agree that an option that says "delete transactions" and doesn't in fact delete transactions isn't a bug? Your argument doesn't address that, it argues that the fix for that bug should be to remove the "delete transactions" option should be removed. But that wouldn't solve your straw man argument: As David T. points out you can very quickly delete all of the transactions in a register one at a time and potentially make just as much of a mess. Of course you can also make a mess editing transactions, so to protect you from yourself GnuCash shouldn't allow editing either, right? Many industrial-strength accounting programs do that: Just like in Michael Novak's pen and paper days if you make a mistake you don't change what you wrote, you make a new entry that corrects the error. GnuCash even has an option that makes transactions older than a configurable number of days read-only that gets you most of the way there. A bit of self discipline will take care of the rest. But not everyone wants GnuCash to work that way and it's up to each user to choose the point where they trade off convenience against the risk of making a mess. Regards, John Ralls > On Sep 5, 2023, at 14:00, Gyle McCollam wrote: > > John, > for the 1st time, I have to disagree with you. If you delete the > transactions when you delete an account it is not only an accounting issue, > but will seriously mess up your other accounts. Say there are debits > (deposits) and credits (withdrawals) from your checking account. If the > account your deleting has been around for years, good luck trying to get your > bank account to balance after those entries are gone. > > Thank You, > Gyle McCollam > Gyle McCollam > gmccol...@live.com <mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email > From: john > Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:44 AM > To: Gyle McCollam > Cc: Maf. King ; Mark ; > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account > > Yeah, it's a bug. It's supposed to delete the transactions, not just the > splits in that account only to recreate them in an imbalance account. > Otherwise it's the same as the move to account option. > > The fact that it's poor accounting practice is beside the point. If the user > wants to follow good accounting practice they can choose to move the splits > to another account. > > Regards, > John Ralls > > > On Sep 5, 2023, at 08:18, Gyle McCollam wrote: > > > > No Mark, it is not a bug. If you made credit card purchases and subsequent > > payments to that card, those transactions have already been made and if you > > were to delete an account and the transaction within, it would be the same > > as if the transactions had never happened and they did. Gnucash, offering > > to move them to another account is the only way not to screw up all the > > account affected by the account you are deleting. > > > > > > Thank You, > > > > Gyle McCollam > > > > Gyle McCollam > > > > gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email > > > > > > From: gnucash-user on > > behalf of Mark via gnucash-user > > Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:04 AM > > To: Maf. King > > Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account > > > > > > Sep 5, 2023 08:33:44 Maf. King : > > > >> I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with the > >> choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see > >> screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) > >> > >> Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the > >> transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. > >> > >> One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, and > >> GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know what > >> the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, not a > >> delete. > >> > >> Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I > >> think I > >> agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to > >> delete > >> an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them still > >> existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog bo
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
On 9/5/2023 5:46 PM, Stephen M. Butler wrote: Yup. If you messed up an import then you definitely want to delete those transactions in all accounts. If you left those entries hanging out there then a new import will also really mess up everything even more royally than what Gyle is suggesting. Suggestion. If you are about to do an import of transactions, make a back-up immediately prior to the import. After the import of transactions has been completed and any unresolved accounts corrected, closely examine for correctness. If you have done this and find the import was a mistake (of the sort that was described) then you do not "delete the transactions" but simply revert to the state prior to the import (restore from back-up) Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Yup. If you messed up an import then you definitely want to delete those transactions in all accounts. If you left those entries hanging out there then a new import will also really mess up everything even more royally than what Gyle is suggesting. On 9/5/23 14:00, Gyle McCollam wrote: John, for the 1st time, I have to disagree with you. If you delete the transactions when you delete an account it is not only an accounting issue, but will seriously mess up your other accounts. Say there are debits (deposits) and credits (withdrawals) from your checking account. If the account your deleting has been around for years, good luck trying to get your bank account to balance after those entries are gone. Thank You, Gyle McCollam Gyle McCollam gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email From: john Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:44 AM To: Gyle McCollam Cc: Maf. King ; Mark ; gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account Yeah, it's a bug. It's supposed to delete the transactions, not just the splits in that account only to recreate them in an imbalance account. Otherwise it's the same as the move to account option. The fact that it's poor accounting practice is beside the point. If the user wants to follow good accounting practice they can choose to move the splits to another account. Regards, John Ralls On Sep 5, 2023, at 08:18, Gyle McCollam wrote: No Mark, it is not a bug. If you made credit card purchases and subsequent payments to that card, those transactions have already been made and if you were to delete an account and the transaction within, it would be the same as if the transactions had never happened and they did. Gnucash, offering to move them to another account is the only way not to screw up all the account affected by the account you are deleting. Thank You, Gyle McCollam Gyle McCollam gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email From: gnucash-user on behalf of Mark via gnucash-user Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:04 AM To: Maf. King Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account Sep 5, 2023 08:33:44 Maf. King : I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with the choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, and GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know what the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, not a delete. Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I think I agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to delete an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them still existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog box) Ah, it's been a while since I deleted an account, and I don't remember the option to delete all transactions being there (maybe I just forgot). I agree that is confusing at least, and maybe a bug. I don't think I would ever use that option, though. That seems like a confusing side effect to have transactions deleted by deleting an account. Maybe I'm just used to the way GnuCash has done things. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
John, for the 1st time, I have to disagree with you. If you delete the transactions when you delete an account it is not only an accounting issue, but will seriously mess up your other accounts. Say there are debits (deposits) and credits (withdrawals) from your checking account. If the account your deleting has been around for years, good luck trying to get your bank account to balance after those entries are gone. Thank You, Gyle McCollam Gyle McCollam gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email From: john Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:44 AM To: Gyle McCollam Cc: Maf. King ; Mark ; gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account Yeah, it's a bug. It's supposed to delete the transactions, not just the splits in that account only to recreate them in an imbalance account. Otherwise it's the same as the move to account option. The fact that it's poor accounting practice is beside the point. If the user wants to follow good accounting practice they can choose to move the splits to another account. Regards, John Ralls > On Sep 5, 2023, at 08:18, Gyle McCollam wrote: > > No Mark, it is not a bug. If you made credit card purchases and subsequent > payments to that card, those transactions have already been made and if you > were to delete an account and the transaction within, it would be the same as > if the transactions had never happened and they did. Gnucash, offering to > move them to another account is the only way not to screw up all the account > affected by the account you are deleting. > > > Thank You, > > Gyle McCollam > > Gyle McCollam > > gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email > > > From: gnucash-user on > behalf of Mark via gnucash-user > Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:04 AM > To: Maf. King > Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org > Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account > > > Sep 5, 2023 08:33:44 Maf. King : > >> I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with the >> choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see >> screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) >> >> Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the >> transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. >> >> One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, and >> GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know what >> the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, not a >> delete. >> >> Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I think I >> agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to delete >> an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them still >> existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog box) > > Ah, it's been a while since I deleted an account, and I don't remember the > option to delete all transactions being there (maybe I just forgot). I agree > that is confusing at least, and maybe a bug. > > I don't think I would ever use that option, though. That seems like a > confusing side effect to have transactions deleted by deleting an account. > Maybe I'm just used to the way GnuCash has done things. > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Yeah, it's a bug. It's supposed to delete the transactions, not just the splits in that account only to recreate them in an imbalance account. Otherwise it's the same as the move to account option. The fact that it's poor accounting practice is beside the point. If the user wants to follow good accounting practice they can choose to move the splits to another account. Regards, John Ralls > On Sep 5, 2023, at 08:18, Gyle McCollam wrote: > > No Mark, it is not a bug. If you made credit card purchases and subsequent > payments to that card, those transactions have already been made and if you > were to delete an account and the transaction within, it would be the same as > if the transactions had never happened and they did. Gnucash, offering to > move them to another account is the only way not to screw up all the account > affected by the account you are deleting. > > > Thank You, > > Gyle McCollam > > Gyle McCollam > > gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email > > > From: gnucash-user on > behalf of Mark via gnucash-user > Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:04 AM > To: Maf. King > Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org > Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account > > > Sep 5, 2023 08:33:44 Maf. King : > >> I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with the >> choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see >> screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) >> >> Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the >> transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. >> >> One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, and >> GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know what >> the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, not a >> delete. >> >> Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I think I >> agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to delete >> an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them still >> existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog box) > > Ah, it's been a while since I deleted an account, and I don't remember the > option to delete all transactions being there (maybe I just forgot). I agree > that is confusing at least, and maybe a bug. > > I don't think I would ever use that option, though. That seems like a > confusing side effect to have transactions deleted by deleting an account. > Maybe I'm just used to the way GnuCash has done things. > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Sep 5, 2023 10:18:53 Gyle McCollam : > No Mark, it is not a bug. If you made credit card purchases and subsequent > payments to that card, those transactions have already been made and if you > were to delete an account and the transaction within, it would be the same as > if the transactions had never happened and they did. Gnucash, offering to > move them to another account is the only way not to screw up all the account > affected by the account you are deleting. I'm not the OP that wanted to mass delete transactions. What I was referring to as possibly a bug was what Maf. King said that choosing "delete all transactions" when deleting an account effectively moves them to Imbalance. If that is what that option is supposed to do, it would probably be good to make that clearer in the dialog box. Sorry I didn't word that clearly. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
No Mark, it is not a bug. If you made credit card purchases and subsequent payments to that card, those transactions have already been made and if you were to delete an account and the transaction within, it would be the same as if the transactions had never happened and they did. Gnucash, offering to move them to another account is the only way not to screw up all the account affected by the account you are deleting. Thank You, Gyle McCollam Gyle McCollam gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com> email From: gnucash-user on behalf of Mark via gnucash-user Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:04 AM To: Maf. King Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account Sep 5, 2023 08:33:44 Maf. King : > I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with the > choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see > screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) > > Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the > transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. > > One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, and > GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know what > the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, not a > delete. > > Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I think I > agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to delete > an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them still > existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog box) Ah, it's been a while since I deleted an account, and I don't remember the option to delete all transactions being there (maybe I just forgot). I agree that is confusing at least, and maybe a bug. I don't think I would ever use that option, though. That seems like a confusing side effect to have transactions deleted by deleting an account. Maybe I'm just used to the way GnuCash has done things. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Sep 5, 2023 08:33:44 Maf. King : > I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with the > choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see > screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) > > Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the > transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. > > One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, and > GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know what > the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, not a > delete. > > Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I think I > agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to delete > an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them still > existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog box) Ah, it's been a while since I deleted an account, and I don't remember the option to delete all transactions being there (maybe I just forgot). I agree that is confusing at least, and maybe a bug. I don't think I would ever use that option, though. That seems like a confusing side effect to have transactions deleted by deleting an account. Maybe I'm just used to the way GnuCash has done things. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Let's not to discuss whether it's a good idea or not to delete an account that contains transactions. It's a valid user function in GC to delete a non-empty account. Whether a "valid user function" or not depends on the level of formality. In other words, your accounting "standards". Some of us will have chosen "never delete a transaction". Notice that this most closely models "pen and ink on paper (bound volumes, why we call them "books"). You got rid of a transaction only by entering an offsetting/correcting transaction. Some of us will delete transactions entered in error but only in the current session. In other words, once the session ended we would later correct as above. Keep in mind that possibly the correction is being made months later. Some of us will change transactions in our books willy nilly. We are going by informal accounting rules. Now to the specific case << a BATCH of transactions imported incorrectly. If I understand correctly, debits and credits reversed? >> If asked by the person BEFORE any actions had been taken I would have asked some questions before suggesting how to fix. Questions like: How much work have you done since this import? How much work did you do before this import? (that is, since the last back-up) If the answer to both of those is "none" I would have suggested abandoning the session in which the erroneous input was done (restore from just before). Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
ISTR many years back encountering this discrepancy (that is, GnuCash saying it was deleting transactions only to find them still there after). I chalked it up to GnuCash being GnuCash, and decided that deleting accounts with transactions in them was more confusing than stepping through an account and deleting each transaction before removing the account. In Basic view, one can delete a lot of entries very quickly, especially if you turn off the confirmation dialog for the current session. I've been known to delete several hundred transactions in this way in just a few minutes. That's not the answer for the original problem, but it's the reason I haven't ever given the issue much consideration over the years... David T. On Sep 5, 2023, 4:35 PM, at 4:35 PM, "Maf. King" wrote: >On Tuesday, 5 September 2023 13:51:11 BST Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) >wrote: >> On 2023-09-04 21:28, Jediator wrote: >> > Let's not to discuss whether it's a good idea or not to delete an >> > account that contains transactions. It's a valid user function in >GC to >> > delete a non-empty account. >> >> I've never done that myself, but from discussions I followed here in >the >> past, when you delete an account that has transactions, GC prompts >you >> to specify an account to move those transactions to. Did that not >happen >> for you? >> >> > If you follow the double-entry accounting >> > >> > rule, the related transactions in other accounts should be deleted. >> >> I beg to differ. Just deleting an account can't change the past. >Those >> transactions represent events that happened, and deleting the account >> can't make them unhappen; they must continue to exist *somewhere*. >Maybe >> going to Imbalance is what happens if you don't give GC an account to >> move them to? >> > >Hi, > >I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with >the >choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see >screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) > >Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the >transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. > >One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, >and >GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know >what >the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, >not a >delete. > >Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I >think I >agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to >delete >an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them >still >existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog box) > >Maf. > > > >___ >gnucash-user mailing list >gnucash-user@gnucash.org >To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >- >Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
On Tuesday, 5 September 2023 13:51:11 BST Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) wrote: > On 2023-09-04 21:28, Jediator wrote: > > Let's not to discuss whether it's a good idea or not to delete an > > account that contains transactions. It's a valid user function in GC to > > delete a non-empty account. > > I've never done that myself, but from discussions I followed here in the > past, when you delete an account that has transactions, GC prompts you > to specify an account to move those transactions to. Did that not happen > for you? > > > If you follow the double-entry accounting > > > > rule, the related transactions in other accounts should be deleted. > > I beg to differ. Just deleting an account can't change the past. Those > transactions represent events that happened, and deleting the account > can't make them unhappen; they must continue to exist *somewhere*. Maybe > going to Imbalance is what happens if you don't give GC an account to > move them to? > Hi, I just tried deleting an account. As expected, I was presented with the choice to "move transactions to..." or "Delete all transactions" (see screenshot - this is GC 4.x, maybe the wording is different in v5) Deleting the transactions does not really seem to delete anything, the transaction splits effectively moved to Imbalance-GBP. One could argue that "splits" in the deleted account have been deleted, and GC has auto-created new splits to the Imbalance account - I don't know what the internal process is- but it "feels" to the end user like a move, not a delete. Given a "transaction" is a collection of "at least 2 splits", then I think I agree with the OP, (whatever the validity of the reason for wanting to delete an account), being told that "transactions" will be deleted and them still existing seems a bug (maybe only in wording in the dialog box) Maf.___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
On 2023-09-04 21:28, Jediator wrote: > Let's not to discuss whether it's a good idea or not to delete an > account that contains transactions. It's a valid user function in GC to > delete a non-empty account. I've never done that myself, but from discussions I followed here in the past, when you delete an account that has transactions, GC prompts you to specify an account to move those transactions to. Did that not happen for you? > If you follow the double-entry accounting > rule, the related transactions in other accounts should be deleted. I beg to differ. Just deleting an account can't change the past. Those transactions represent events that happened, and deleting the account can't make them unhappen; they must continue to exist *somewhere*. Maybe going to Imbalance is what happens if you don't give GC an account to move them to? What happens when you go into the Imbalance account register, click a line, and click Jump in the icon row at the top? I suspect GC will take you to the other half of that transaction, but it would be nice to confirm that. If that's what happens, then I would say GC behaved as it should. If you really want to delete those transactions (though I don't understand why), you should be able to do it, one by one, in the Imbalance account register. (As far as I know, there's no way to mass delete transactions.) Stan Brown Tehachapi, CA, USA https://BrownMath.com/ ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Sep 4, 2023 23:30:59 Jediator : > It's a valid user function in GC to delete a non-empty account. And that will delete the account and move any transactions in it to another account, which you can select. Personally, I think that makes sense, I don't want to be mass deleting transactions as a side effect of deleting an account. It sounds like what you're actually wanting is some way to mass delete transactions. I'm not sure if there is a way to do that, maybe someone else knows. If there is not, you could make a feature request. (Unless that is something you could implement yourself.) ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Thanks for all your responses. I guess the discussion went off track here. Again, it's not a double-entry accounting issue, nor it's a split issue, but a transaction consistency issue (probably related to database transaction implementation). Let's not to discuss whether it's a good idea or not to delete an account that contains transactions. It's a valid user function in GC to delete a non-empty account. If you follow the double-entry accounting rule, the related transactions in other accounts should be deleted. Instead, the related transactions in other accounts didn't get deleted but got assigned to the default Inbalanced-USD account (so the double-entry rule still hold here!). However, if you delete the transactions individually, this problem won't occur. Transactions in double-entried accounts will be deleted correctly. The use case: I was importing credit card transactions to an account via csv. After importing, all transactions got double-entried to the default Inbalanced-USD account. After changing the Inbalanced-USDs to the correct expense accounts for all the imported transactions, I realized that I wasn't using negated amount for the credit card before importing. So I decided to get rid of the credit card account and create and re-import everything from scratch (luckily GC allows you to do this), thus the inconsistency problem. Thanks! On 9/3/23 3:12 PM, Michael or Penny Novack wrote: On 9/3/2023 2:27 PM, Jediator wrote: Hi, I'm a new GC user after using QB for many years. One problem I encountered was when I delete an account with transactions (instead of deleting transactions manually one at a time), the corresponding transactions in other accounts won't get deleted automatically. For instance, I have a payment transaction in a credit card account related to a withdraw transaction in a checking account. When I delete the credit card account with all its transactions, the related withdraw transaction still remains in the checking account. Is this a bug to be reported? No, you are not understanding a basic concept of double entry bookkeeping. Each of those transactions in the CC account you are deleting had another account associated with it (at least one other account, could be more if a "split"). When you delete an account, you are NOT deleting the transactions that were there but instead moving them (that side of them that was in the CC account) to some other account. We'll come back to that. Meanwhile, the opposite side of each of those transactions remains where it was (in the account where it was). So .. let's look at one of those payment transactions more closely. You see it there in the account of your checking account? << you said you were >> Well LOOK at one of those transactions (would be a credit to the checking account). What is NOW the debit side of that transaction. In other words, what account? THAT is what happened when you deleted the account for that CC, they were MOVED there, not deleted. You can't delete just one side of a transaction. Question1 --- you say you were a long time QB user? QuickBooks and not Quicken? Because QuickBooks is proper double entry7 bookkeeping and would work the same way as gnucash with regard to deleting an account. Of course possibly you never tried deleting an account in QuickBooks. Question2 --- WHAT are you trying to do here? Why are you deleting the account of that CC? Normally, in proper bookkeeping you do NOT attempt to change the past. If the situation is that this CC has been closed, no longer being used, balance was zero at the time when closed, the account is now INACTIVE and you don't want to see it taking up space in your CoA, the action you want is HIDE, not delete. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
On 9/3/2023 5:57 PM, Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) wrote: On 2023-09-03 12:12, Michael or Penny Novack wrote: Each of those transactions in the CC account you are deleting had another account associated with it (at least one other account, could be more if a "split"). I am not familiar with your usage of the word "split", but I don't think it's standard for GnuCash. A "split transaction" --- entered by starting the transaction and then hitting the "split" button. This switches to "journal mode" thus allowing you to enter a transaction that affects more than just two accounts. Note that entering transactions first with a "journal" entry is what we old timers used to do for all transactions (even those affecting just two accounts) unless we had a subsection of the ledger set up for "cashbook accounting" where "popular" transactions affecting just this subset were entered directly into the ledger with no journal entry. In practice that might be >90% of transactions saving a lot of time and reducing the chance of error (during the "posting" process). Essentially gnucash is using "cashbook accounting" where the subset is the entire ledger when the transaction only affects two accounts. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
On 2023-09-03 12:12, Michael or Penny Novack wrote: > > Each of those transactions in the CC account you are deleting had > another account associated with it (at least one other account, could be > more if a "split"). I am not familiar with your usage of the word "split", but I don't think it's standard for GnuCash. "Data Entry Concepts":"Transactions" in the Tutorial and Concepts Guide says: "A line within a transaction that records the account and amount of money involved is called a split. A transaction can contain an arbitrary number of splits." Thus, we should never call a transaction a split, but we can speak of the number of splits in a transaction. With trivial exceptions, every transaction contains two or more splits, though in Basic Ledger view of an account register the splits for that account are hidden. Please, let's use standard GnuCash terminology, especially in conversation with newer users. They have enough to learn without being confused by inconsistent terminology. Stan Brown Tehachapi, CA, USA https://BrownMath.com/ ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
On 9/3/2023 2:27 PM, Jediator wrote: Hi, I'm a new GC user after using QB for many years. One problem I encountered was when I delete an account with transactions (instead of deleting transactions manually one at a time), the corresponding transactions in other accounts won't get deleted automatically. For instance, I have a payment transaction in a credit card account related to a withdraw transaction in a checking account. When I delete the credit card account with all its transactions, the related withdraw transaction still remains in the checking account. Is this a bug to be reported? No, you are not understanding a basic concept of double entry bookkeeping. Each of those transactions in the CC account you are deleting had another account associated with it (at least one other account, could be more if a "split"). When you delete an account, you are NOT deleting the transactions that were there but instead moving them (that side of them that was in the CC account) to some other account. We'll come back to that. Meanwhile, the opposite side of each of those transactions remains where it was (in the account where it was). So .. let's look at one of those payment transactions more closely. You see it there in the account of your checking account? << you said you were >> Well LOOK at one of those transactions (would be a credit to the checking account). What is NOW the debit side of that transaction. In other words, what account? THAT is what happened when you deleted the account for that CC, they were MOVED there, not deleted. You can't delete just one side of a transaction. Question1 --- you say you were a long time QB user? QuickBooks and not Quicken? Because QuickBooks is proper double entry7 bookkeeping and would work the same way as gnucash with regard to deleting an account. Of course possibly you never tried deleting an account in QuickBooks. Question2 --- WHAT are you trying to do here? Why are you deleting the account of that CC? Normally, in proper bookkeeping you do NOT attempt to change the past. If the situation is that this CC has been closed, no longer being used, balance was zero at the time when closed, the account is now INACTIVE and you don't want to see it taking up space in your CoA, the action you want is HIDE, not delete. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Transaction inconsistency when deleting account
Hi, I'm a new GC user after using QB for many years. One problem I encountered was when I delete an account with transactions (instead of deleting transactions manually one at a time), the corresponding transactions in other accounts won't get deleted automatically. For instance, I have a payment transaction in a credit card account related to a withdraw transaction in a checking account. When I delete the credit card account with all its transactions, the related withdraw transaction still remains in the checking account. Is this a bug to be reported? I am using GC version 5.3 for MacOS with Postgresql version 14 as the backend database. Is the Windows version of GC more stable than Mac? Thanks a lot! -- JC ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
