Re: Processing Payment to Vendor from Imported Checking

2018-02-05 Thread John Ralls 
To decode that for non-USA readers:

By “Sub S corp” Fran means https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_corporation 
.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Feb 5, 2018, at 6:13 AM, Fran_3 via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> Maf,
> Thanks for the response and the info. In our case we are a small USA Sub S 
> corp.
> I think I meant to say "distributions" and not "disbursements" ... so clearly 
> no accountant here :-)
> Some info on USA Sub-S Corp's "distributions" here: Taking money out of an S 
> corporation
> I think what we were looking for was how to account for a loan to a 
> shareholder... and ended up putting it under Assets as it is money owed the 
> business.
> Regardless, our use of gnuCash will be scrubbed at year end by a professional 
> accounting firm... that said we want to be as close to 'correct' as possible 
> :-)
> gnuCash is the next step in our accounting system process...
> 1 - left pocket, right pocket2 - paper and pencil3 - spreadsheets4 - gnuCash
> :-)
> I'm sure I will have more questions so thanks for the help all !
> Fran3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> | 
> | 
> |  | 
> Taking money out of an S corporation
> 
> S corporation owners may take money out of the corporation in a variety of 
> ways, such as in the form of wages an...
> |
> 
> |
> 
> |
> 
> 
> 
> 
>On Sunday, February 4, 2018, 5:52:07 PM EST, Maf. King  
> wrote:  
> 
> On Sunday, 4 February 2018 20:39:02 GMT Fran_3 via gnucash-user wrote:
>>   Geert,
>> There are three ways (that I know of) for a shareholder or owner to get
>> money out of their business...1 - Pay themselves as an employee2 - Loan
>> themselves money3 - Discernment- which is like a "dividend" payment to
>> shareholders ( I think) But I'm no accountant... so someone else will
>> surely weigh in on this. When is gnuCash 3 going to be released?
> 
> Hi Fran,
> 
> I'm not an accountant (or lawyer) either, but I have to say that what you've 
> written isn't my understanding of (UK) corporate law. I don't know where you 
> are in the world, so the below may only be partially true for you.
> 
> 1. a shareholder of a ltd company can't take a wage unless they are also an 
> employee (directors are employees).  Often in small & family firms the 
> shareholders are directors, but the 2 roles are distinct & must not be 
> conflated.  If you're not clear about this, maybe talk to an accountant?
> 
> 2. A loan.  not really getting money out of the company, as it should be paid 
> back in due course.  there are (in the UK, at least) some pretty stringent 
> anti-tax avoidance rules around loans, too.  Record as something like 
> Asset:Bank:Current -> Asset:LoansGiven:JoeBloggs
> 
> 3.  IIRC, the term you want might be disbursement.  Yes, dividends are the 
> usual way shareholders get money from a ltd (or plc) company.  I record them 
> as transfers to Expenses:dividends. My accountant has never complained.
> 
> 4. you didn't mention selling shares.  Again, a tax & legal minefield where 
> professional advice is required.  But it is a way of getting money as a 
> shareholder.
> 
> Note. I don't download transactions, so I'm not sure about this "assign as 
> payment" workflow you talk about.  All my transactions are either entered 
> directly in the registers, or for bills / invoices through the "Process 
> Payment" buttons which are outlined in the docs.
> 
> 
> HTH,
> Maf.
> 
> 
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Re: Processing Payment to Vendor from Imported Checking

2018-02-05 Thread Fran_3 via gnucash-user 
 Maf,
Thanks for the response and the info. In our case we are a small USA Sub S corp.
I think I meant to say "distributions" and not "disbursements" ... so clearly 
no accountant here :-)
Some info on USA Sub-S Corp's "distributions" here: Taking money out of an S 
corporation
I think what we were looking for was how to account for a loan to a 
shareholder... and ended up putting it under Assets as it is money owed the 
business.
Regardless, our use of gnuCash will be scrubbed at year end by a professional 
accounting firm... that said we want to be as close to 'correct' as possible :-)
gnuCash is the next step in our accounting system process...
1 - left pocket, right pocket2 - paper and pencil3 - spreadsheets4 - gnuCash
:-)
I'm sure I will have more questions so thanks for the help all !
Fran3








| 
| 
|  | 
Taking money out of an S corporation

S corporation owners may take money out of the corporation in a variety of 
ways, such as in the form of wages an...
 |

 |

 |




On Sunday, February 4, 2018, 5:52:07 PM EST, Maf. King  
wrote:  
 
 On Sunday, 4 February 2018 20:39:02 GMT Fran_3 via gnucash-user wrote:
>  Geert,
> There are three ways (that I know of) for a shareholder or owner to get
> money out of their business...1 - Pay themselves as an employee2 - Loan
> themselves money3 - Discernment- which is like a "dividend" payment to
> shareholders ( I think) But I'm no accountant... so someone else will
> surely weigh in on this. When is gnuCash 3 going to be released?

Hi Fran,

I'm not an accountant (or lawyer) either, but I have to say that what you've 
written isn't my understanding of (UK) corporate law. I don't know where you 
are in the world, so the below may only be partially true for you.

1. a shareholder of a ltd company can't take a wage unless they are also an 
employee (directors are employees).  Often in small & family firms the 
shareholders are directors, but the 2 roles are distinct & must not be 
conflated.  If you're not clear about this, maybe talk to an accountant?

2. A loan.  not really getting money out of the company, as it should be paid 
back in due course.  there are (in the UK, at least) some pretty stringent 
anti-tax avoidance rules around loans, too.  Record as something like 
Asset:Bank:Current -> Asset:LoansGiven:JoeBloggs

3.  IIRC, the term you want might be disbursement.  Yes, dividends are the 
usual way shareholders get money from a ltd (or plc) company.  I record them 
as transfers to Expenses:dividends. My accountant has never complained.

4. you didn't mention selling shares.  Again, a tax & legal minefield where 
professional advice is required.  But it is a way of getting money as a 
shareholder.

Note. I don't download transactions, so I'm not sure about this "assign as 
payment" workflow you talk about.  All my transactions are either entered 
directly in the registers, or for bills / invoices through the "Process 
Payment" buttons which are outlined in the docs.


HTH,
Maf.

  
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Re: Processing Payment to Vendor from Imported Checking

2018-02-04 Thread Maf. King 
On Sunday, 4 February 2018 20:39:02 GMT Fran_3 via gnucash-user wrote:
>  Geert,
> There are three ways (that I know of) for a shareholder or owner to get
> money out of their business...1 - Pay themselves as an employee2 - Loan
> themselves money3 - Discernment- which is like a "dividend" payment to
> shareholders ( I think) But I'm no accountant... so someone else will
> surely weigh in on this. When is gnuCash 3 going to be released?

Hi Fran,

I'm not an accountant (or lawyer) either, but I have to say that what you've 
written isn't my understanding of (UK) corporate law. I don't know where you 
are in the world, so the below may only be partially true for you.

1. a shareholder of a ltd company can't take a wage unless they are also an 
employee (directors are employees).  Often in small & family firms the 
shareholders are directors, but the 2 roles are distinct & must not be 
conflated.  If you're not clear about this, maybe talk to an accountant?

2. A loan.  not really getting money out of the company, as it should be paid 
back in due course.  there are (in the UK, at least) some pretty stringent 
anti-tax avoidance rules around loans, too.  Record as something like 
Asset:Bank:Current -> Asset:LoansGiven:JoeBloggs

3.  IIRC, the term you want might be disbursement.  Yes, dividends are the 
usual way shareholders get money from a ltd (or plc) company.   I record them 
as transfers to Expenses:dividends. My accountant has never complained.

4. you didn't mention selling shares.  Again, a tax & legal minefield where 
professional advice is required.  But it is a way of getting money as a 
shareholder.

Note. I don't download transactions, so I'm not sure about this "assign as 
payment" workflow you talk about.  All my transactions are either entered 
directly in the registers, or for bills / invoices through the "Process 
Payment" buttons which are outlined in the docs.


HTH,
Maf.

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Re: Processing Payment to Vendor from Imported Checking

2018-02-04 Thread Fran_3 via gnucash-user 
 Geert,
There are three ways (that I know of) for a shareholder or owner to get money 
out of their business...1 - Pay themselves as an employee2 - Loan themselves 
money3 - Discernment- which is like a "dividend" payment to shareholders ( I 
think)
But I'm no accountant... so someone else will surely weigh in on this.
When is gnuCash 3 going to be released?
Thanks
Fran3


On Sunday, February 4, 2018, 3:00:00 PM EST, Geert Janssens 
 wrote:  
 
 Op zondag 4 februari 2018 20:38:47 CET schreef Fran_3:
>  Setup:
> a - Imported CSV bank transactions
> b - CSV format = date,deposits,witdrawls,num,description
> 
> Discovered:
> 1 - Withdrawals must be positive number in CSV file (else show up as
> deposits in check register)

That is correct. The "withdrawal" column type is meant for csv files in which 
you have a separate debit (deposit) and credit (withdrawal) column. Generally 
when there are two columns they are both represented as positive numbers. The 
fact that it's positive or negative is already represented by the column in 
which the amount is recorded. I concede the names chosen for this can be a bit 
confusing.

> 2 - Must assign withdrawals to pay bills to
> Liabilities -> Accounts Payable during the import process

> Then I can right click them in Check Register view and Assign Payment As
> will let me choose a vendor.

> (1 above is true even if you label the columns deposits and
> withdrawals during the import process)

> Questions:
> I - Is the process described above correct? Better alternative?

Yes, that process is correct for gnucash 2.6. Gnucash 3.0 will make it easier 
on you. Regardless of the state of the transaction you will always be able to 
choose vendor, customer or employee in the payment window.

> 2 - How would you properly assign a withdrawal for a loan to an employee
> or shareholder or other entity?

There is no way in gnucash 2.6, but there will be in gnucash 3.0.

> 3 - How would you properly assign a withdrawal that was a dismemberment
> to a shareholder?

I don't know what that is, so I can't advise authoritatively. However you 
could either define shareholders as vendors and treat a dismemberment as a 
payment to that vendor (if that makes any sense) or you record it as a normal 
transaction, unrelated to the business features.

Is there a document to go with this, something like a bill ? Do you need to 
keep track of both that document and the payment and how they relate ? Is it 
tax related ? Then you could model it via a vendor and payment, otherwise you 
could just make it a normal transaction during import.

> 4 - How would you properly assign a capitol deposit to shareholder equity?

I suppose this would have a similar answer as number 3.


> Thanks again for the help.

You're welcome.

Geert


  
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Re: Processing Payment to Vendor from Imported Checking

2018-02-04 Thread Geert Janssens 
Op zondag 4 februari 2018 20:38:47 CET schreef Fran_3:
>  Setup:
> a - Imported CSV bank transactions
> b - CSV format = date,deposits,witdrawls,num,description
> 
> Discovered:
> 1 - Withdrawals must be positive number in CSV file (else show up as
> deposits in check register)

That is correct. The "withdrawal" column type is meant for csv files in which 
you have a separate debit (deposit) and credit (withdrawal) column. Generally 
when there are two columns they are both represented as positive numbers. The 
fact that it's positive or negative is already represented by the column in 
which the amount is recorded. I concede the names chosen for this can be a bit 
confusing.

> 2 - Must assign withdrawals to pay bills to
> Liabilities -> Accounts Payable during the import process

> Then I can right click them in Check Register view and Assign Payment As
> will let me choose a vendor.

> (1 above is true even if you label the columns deposits and
> withdrawals during the import process)

> Questions:
> I - Is the process described above correct? Better alternative?

Yes, that process is correct for gnucash 2.6. Gnucash 3.0 will make it easier 
on you. Regardless of the state of the transaction you will always be able to 
choose vendor, customer or employee in the payment window.

> 2 - How would you properly assign a withdrawal for a loan to an employee
> or shareholder or other entity?

There is no way in gnucash 2.6, but there will be in gnucash 3.0.

> 3 - How would you properly assign a withdrawal that was a dismemberment
> to a shareholder?

I don't know what that is, so I can't advise authoritatively. However you 
could either define shareholders as vendors and treat a dismemberment as a 
payment to that vendor (if that makes any sense) or you record it as a normal 
transaction, unrelated to the business features.

Is there a document to go with this, something like a bill ? Do you need to 
keep track of both that document and the payment and how they relate ? Is it 
tax related ? Then you could model it via a vendor and payment, otherwise you 
could just make it a normal transaction during import.

> 4 - How would you properly assign a capitol deposit to shareholder equity?

I suppose this would have a similar answer as number 3.


> Thanks again for the help.

You're welcome.

Geert


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Re: Processing Payment to Vendor from Imported Checking

2018-02-04 Thread Fran_3 via gnucash-user 
 Setup:
a - Imported CSV bank transactionsb - CSV format = 
date,deposits,witdrawls,num,description

Discovered:
1 - Withdrawals must be positive number in CSV file (else show up as deposits 
in check register)2 - Must assign withdrawals to pay bills to Liabilities -> 
Accounts Payable during the import process
Then I can right click them in Check Register view and Assign Payment As will 
let me choose a vendor.
(1 above is true even if you label the columns deposits and withdrawals during 
the import process)
Questions:I - Is the process described above correct? Better alternative?2 - 
How would you properly assign a withdrawal for a loan to an employee or 
shareholder or other entity?3 - How would you properly assign a withdrawal that 
was a dismemberment to a shareholder?4 - How would you properly assign a 
capitol deposit to shareholder equity?
Thanks again for the help.
Fran3






On Sunday, February 4, 2018, 9:32:29 AM EST, Geert Janssens 
 wrote:  
 
 Op zondag 4 februari 2018 14:53:26 CET schreef Fran_3:
>  How to Assign imported checking transaction to a Vendor?
> All I can see is assigning to a Customer:
> See Click Sequence and Ref Manual 7.1 below for more detains.
> Thanks for any help.
> Fran3
> Click Sequence:- Imported Checking Transactions- Viewed Checking Account-
> Right Clicked a payment- Clicked Assign As Payment- Process Payment Window
> Opens- BUT only allows choosing Customer- Can not choose Vendor
> 
The assign as payment logic in 2.6 is fairly primitive. It tests for two 
things:
1. does the transaction has at least one split in an Accounts Receivable or 
Accounts Payable account ? If yes to the first, it will only allow to select a 
customer in the presented payment window. If the second it will only allow to 
select a vendor in the presented payment window

2. if none of these, it will look at the sign of the checking split: is it 
positive (that is you receive money) it will propose a customer payment, 
otherwise it will propose a vendor payment.

And that's it. So does the transaction you have selected match any of these 
that would lead to a customer selection (split in A/R or you receive the 
money) ?

Regards,

Geert

> Reference Manual 7.1 
> 
> There is an alternative way of assigning a payment to (one or more) bills
> where the payment transaction already exists, say in the case where
> transactions are imported from a bank.
> 
> This can best be done starting from the asset account register holding the
> imported payment transaction (like your bank account). In that account,
> select the payment, right-click (control-click for Mac OS X) and
> choose Assign as payment The payment window will pop-up, partly filled
> in with the information from the transaction. Fill in the missing
> information like the proper vendor and bill to complete the payment.
> ___
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Re: Processing Payment to Vendor from Imported Checking

2018-02-04 Thread Geert Janssens 
Op zondag 4 februari 2018 14:53:26 CET schreef Fran_3:
>  How to Assign imported checking transaction to a Vendor?
> All I can see is assigning to a Customer:
> See Click Sequence and Ref Manual 7.1 below for more detains.
> Thanks for any help.
> Fran3
> Click Sequence:- Imported Checking Transactions- Viewed Checking Account-
> Right Clicked a payment- Clicked Assign As Payment- Process Payment Window
> Opens- BUT only allows choosing Customer- Can not choose Vendor
> 
The assign as payment logic in 2.6 is fairly primitive. It tests for two 
things:
1. does the transaction has at least one split in an Accounts Receivable or 
Accounts Payable account ? If yes to the first, it will only allow to select a 
customer in the presented payment window. If the second it will only allow to 
select a vendor in the presented payment window

2. if none of these, it will look at the sign of the checking split: is it 
positive (that is you receive money) it will propose a customer payment, 
otherwise it will propose a vendor payment.

And that's it. So does the transaction you have selected match any of these 
that would lead to a customer selection (split in A/R or you receive the 
money) ?

Regards,

Geert

> Reference Manual 7.1 
> 
> There is an alternative way of assigning a payment to (one or more) bills
> where the payment transaction already exists, say in the case where
> transactions are imported from a bank.
> 
> This can best be done starting from the asset account register holding the
> imported payment transaction (like your bank account). In that account,
> select the payment, right-click (control-click for Mac OS X) and
> choose Assign as payment The payment window will pop-up, partly filled
> in with the information from the transaction. Fill in the missing
> information like the proper vendor and bill to complete the payment.
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Processing Payment to Vendor from Imported Checking

2018-02-04 Thread Fran_3 
 How to Assign imported checking transaction to a Vendor?
All I can see is assigning to a Customer:
See Click Sequence and Ref Manual 7.1 below for more detains.
Thanks for any help.
Fran3
Click Sequence:- Imported Checking Transactions- Viewed Checking Account- Right 
Clicked a payment- Clicked Assign As Payment- Process Payment Window Opens- BUT 
only allows choosing Customer- Can not choose Vendor

Reference Manual 7.1 

There is an alternative way of assigning a payment to (one or more) bills where 
the payment transaction already exists, say in the case where transactions are 
imported from a bank.

This can best be done starting from the asset account register holding the 
imported payment transaction (like your bank account). In that account, select 
the payment, right-click (control-click for Mac OS X) and choose Assign as 
payment The payment window will pop-up, partly filled in with the 
information from the transaction. Fill in the missing information like the 
proper vendor and bill to complete the payment.
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