Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[RL]

Alton

Thanks for that "ACH" alternative. It looks elegant. I'm going to give
it a try and see if the procedure is clearly understandable (to me, in
practice) and how easy it is to make the entries. I suspect that once
the first transaction has been fully completed, GC may help by
auto-filling the balancing entry in the ACH acct... Definitely worth a try.

Rufus




On 05/15/2018 08:40 AM, Alton Brantley wrote:
> Under each account for which this can occur, I create a subaccount
> called “ACH” for “Automated Clearing House,” so when the originating
> account registers the transfer transaction, the target account’s
> subaccount “ACH” gets the corresponding split. Then, when the receiving
> account registers the transaction, I put the matching inverse split in
> the ACH and the closing deposit in its parent account.
> 
> This sequence matches what really happens (Source ->ACH then
> ACH->Target), with the added benefit that the Target account, when
> opened with “Include Subaccounts” checked, shows the true expected value
> of the deposit.
> 
> I have an ACH account as a subaccount of both my bank account and my
> investment accounts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 19:35:30 -0700
>> From: Kate Kelly <kken...@gmail.com <mailto:kken...@gmail.com>>
>> To: rlagg...@mail.com <mailto:rlagg...@mail.com>
>> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
>> Subject: Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing
>> transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts
>> Message-ID:
>> 

Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[Adrien Monteleone]

Rufus,

The date issue is handled by the suggestion offered by Kate. You need an 
intermediary account.

I assist a family business with their books and we use both an ‘undeposited 
funds’ account (for checks received) and a ‘check clearing’ account to handle 
these ‘in-transit’ states until the funds end up at their final resting place. 
I was about to suggest as much, but kept reading the thread and realized she 
beat me to it. I’ve seen that approach (and no others) suggested many places so 
my guess is that it is fairly standard practice. (plus her CPA creds attest to 
that)

When you write the check, that will get the date you write it, into the account 
you wrote the check on.

When you confirm the deposit, that is a separate transaction with it’s own date 
from the clearing account to the other checking/savings account you wrote the 
check to.

I’m not sure what others do but I put check numbers on transactions when I 
receive a check as well as issue one. I see it just as a document number, a 
reference number. I don’t consider the number itself to be anything special. 
What makes it a ‘deposit’ is if it is a debit to a checking/savings asset, not 
the existence of a reference number.

Note, a withdrawal of funds might also have some sort of reference/transaction 
number. I’d put that in the same field in such a case. It’s just a reference to 
the document evidencing the transaction.

In your case, you’re doing both the writing and receiving, but the process is 
otherwise the same.

If you’re not using the clearing account (and thus still not going to get 
different dates) you’ll see something like this:

1/1/18  12345   Bank ABC
transfer by check   Assets:Savings  $100
Assets:Checking $100

If you were using the clearing account:

First the initial draft:

1/1/18  12345   Bank ABC
transfer by check   Assets:Savings  $100
Assets:Check Clearing   $100

Then the acknowledgement that the check was received by the other bank:

1/4/18  12345   Bank XYZ
transfer by check   Assets:Check Clearing   $100
Assets:Checking $100

You could alternately put the check number in the Action field instead of the 
Num field. A reason might be to either repurpose the Num field, or for the case 
of multiple drafts:

1/1/18  Bank ABC
12345   transfer by check   Assets:Savings  $100
67890   transfer by check   Assets:Money Market $100
Assets:Check Clearing   $200

In my case, I repurpose the Num field as a time entry. (since GnuCash doesn’t 
have a time-stamp entry field, though it internally does use one) This way, I 
can enter transactions in any order and still have them appear in my register 
as they really happened. (this is most important for cash accounts, but can be 
useful elsewhere, so I just use this 100% as a habit)

My version would be something like this:

1/1/18  1425t   Bank ABC
12345   transfer by check   Assets:Savings  $100
67890   transfer by check   Assets:Money Market $100
Assets:Check Clearing   $200

The ‘1425t’ would indicate I conducted this transaction at 2:25pm that day. The 
’t’ distinguishes the number from a check or other reference number as being a 
time, and I use 24 hour notation since the sorting algorithm in GnuCash on this 
field stops once it encounters a non-numeric so I can’t use any am/pm 
designation or a ‘:’. Now that I’ve placed a time in the Num field, I can’t use 
it for a check number, so I use the Action fields for that on each relevant 
split line.

You could instead use the Action field with one of the preset actions that 
might make the transaction more readable and structured (its intended purpose) 
and then place the check/transaction number in the split’s memo field. Either 
way, that number will still be searchable.,

1/1/18  1425tBank ABC
Transfer by check #12345Assets:Savings  $100
Transfer by check #67890Assets:Money Market $100
Assets:Check Clearing   $200

If the account is of type ‘Bank’ you’ll have a nice list in the Action drop 
down of bank-related actions, or if you want an action that isn’t listed in the 
drop down, or the type isn’t ‘Bank' you can always just type the action you 
want.

None of this is a ‘right way’ or ‘wrong way’ but rather how you do this is up 
to you depending on what level of detail you need for your records to be able 
to audit yourself for reliability and to make financial decisions. (that’s why 
we keeps records, not just for their own sake, but to use that info to make 
decisions)

The question I 

Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[RL]

Kate

"Undeposited funds" may be the right name. Just have to get the
procedures in place now...


Rufus




On 05/14/2018 09:35 PM, Kate Kelly wrote:
> Hi Rufus,
> 
> I am a bookkeeper and former CPA.
> 
> An account that is often used for checks not yet sent to the bank is
> "undeposited funds." This is similar to a suspense account in that there
> is a timing difference between the receipt of a check and the time you
> actually deposit it.  You could debit the undeposited funds account for
> the amount of the payment. When the check clears the receiving bank,
> credit Undeposited Funds and debit your Checking account.  You could add
> the check number to the memo line or record the deposit as DEP (
> being the check number.
> 
> 1.  Write check # 1718 for $100:
>    Undeposited Funds  $100
>    Checking Account A             $100
> 
> 2. Check clears the receiving bank:
>    Checking Account B $100
>    Undeposited Funds.              $100
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Kate
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 14, 2018, 3:21 PM RL  > wrote:
> 
> I have two bank accounts on which I regularly write checks to transfer
> amounts between them. Downloading the ofx files from each bank, I have,
> for those checks, transactions with different (correct) dates in each GC
> account which represent the left and right side of the same accounting
> transaction. For purposes of reconciling against the bank statements,
> these dates must remain different in their separate GC accounts, even
> though they are opposite ends of the same accounting transaction.
> 
> GC wants to make the balancing transactions in each GC account one
> single identical transaction (except for the proper credit/debit column,
> depending on which account I'm looking at). I don't see how to work this
> and maintain both accounts true to their source, the bank transactions.
> The date is also important because at times it matters when a check was
> cashed and when it was payed by the originating bank; there needs to be
> an accurate record of this. An additional, maybe lesser, problem is that
> GC's methodology makes the transaction number the same in each GC
> account. Since the trans number is one of the most easily noted text
> fields, I have been using it to quickly/easily identify "deposits" - but
> this won't work if I want to retain the check number in that field (very
> important). Also, a check number on a deposit line doesn't seem
> particularly proper.
> 
> How is this handled in GC?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rufus
> ___
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Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[RL]

Adrian

I can see where using the check number might be reasonable. Just not
what I have done so far and it looked "strange". I'll try it, since
having the check number of a deposit front/center is all to the good. I
think my original feeling was that I wanted to quickly, at a glance,
tell which "direction" the funds were going - and unfortunately I'm not
used to checking to the right to see which column the funds appear in.
TBD, I guess.

However, the date _is_ a problem because I want to unequivocally match
any transaction in GC with the line on the statement the bank provides.

Thanks for you comment. So more experienced users regularly enter the
check number on both sides of the transaction?


Rufus



On 05/14/2018 10:42 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> Rufus,
> 
> I don’t see why a check number on a deposit line doesn’t seem proper if in 
> fact, you are depositing a check. In this case, it happens to be a check you 
> wrote, but it IS from another account, so from the perspective of the 
> receiving account, it’s no different than the case where someone else wrote 
> you a check and you deposited it. And if you have multiple such checks to 
> deposit for some reason (say you’re transferring funds from more than one 
> account) then you can put the check numbers in the action field for each 
> split.
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
>> On May 14, 2018, at 5:19 PM, RL  wrote:
>>
>> I have two bank accounts on which I regularly write checks to transfer
>> amounts between them. Downloading the ofx files from each bank, I have,
>> for those checks, transactions with different (correct) dates in each GC
>> account which represent the left and right side of the same accounting
>> transaction. For purposes of reconciling against the bank statements,
>> these dates must remain different in their separate GC accounts, even
>> though they are opposite ends of the same accounting transaction.
>>
>> GC wants to make the balancing transactions in each GC account one
>> single identical transaction (except for the proper credit/debit column,
>> depending on which account I'm looking at). I don't see how to work this
>> and maintain both accounts true to their source, the bank transactions.
>> The date is also important because at times it matters when a check was
>> cashed and when it was payed by the originating bank; there needs to be
>> an accurate record of this. An additional, maybe lesser, problem is that
>> GC's methodology makes the transaction number the same in each GC
>> account. Since the trans number is one of the most easily noted text
>> fields, I have been using it to quickly/easily identify "deposits" - but
>> this won't work if I want to retain the check number in that field (very
>> important). Also, a check number on a deposit line doesn't seem
>> particularly proper.
>>
>> How is this handled in GC?
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> Rufus
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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> 
> 
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Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[Alton Brantley]

Under each account for which this can occur, I create a subaccount called “ACH” 
for “Automated Clearing House,” so when the originating account registers the 
transfer transaction, the target account’s subaccount “ACH” gets the 
corresponding split. Then, when the receiving account registers the 
transaction, I put the matching inverse split in the ACH and the closing 
deposit in its parent account.

This sequence matches what really happens (Source ->ACH then ACH->Target), with 
the added benefit that the Target account, when opened with “Include 
Subaccounts” checked, shows the true expected value of the deposit.

I have an ACH account as a subaccount of both my bank account and my investment 
accounts.





> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 19:35:30 -0700
> From: Kate Kelly <kken...@gmail.com <mailto:kken...@gmail.com>>
> To: rlagg...@mail.com <mailto:rlagg...@mail.com>
> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing
>       transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts
> Message-ID:
>   

Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[Adrien Monteleone]

Rufus,

I don’t see why a check number on a deposit line doesn’t seem proper if in 
fact, you are depositing a check. In this case, it happens to be a check you 
wrote, but it IS from another account, so from the perspective of the receiving 
account, it’s no different than the case where someone else wrote you a check 
and you deposited it. And if you have multiple such checks to deposit for some 
reason (say you’re transferring funds from more than one account) then you can 
put the check numbers in the action field for each split.

Regards,
Adrien

> On May 14, 2018, at 5:19 PM, RL  wrote:
> 
> I have two bank accounts on which I regularly write checks to transfer
> amounts between them. Downloading the ofx files from each bank, I have,
> for those checks, transactions with different (correct) dates in each GC
> account which represent the left and right side of the same accounting
> transaction. For purposes of reconciling against the bank statements,
> these dates must remain different in their separate GC accounts, even
> though they are opposite ends of the same accounting transaction.
> 
> GC wants to make the balancing transactions in each GC account one
> single identical transaction (except for the proper credit/debit column,
> depending on which account I'm looking at). I don't see how to work this
> and maintain both accounts true to their source, the bank transactions.
> The date is also important because at times it matters when a check was
> cashed and when it was payed by the originating bank; there needs to be
> an accurate record of this. An additional, maybe lesser, problem is that
> GC's methodology makes the transaction number the same in each GC
> account. Since the trans number is one of the most easily noted text
> fields, I have been using it to quickly/easily identify "deposits" - but
> this won't work if I want to retain the check number in that field (very
> important). Also, a check number on a deposit line doesn't seem
> particularly proper.
> 
> How is this handled in GC?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rufus
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[Kate Kelly]

Hi Rufus,

I am a bookkeeper and former CPA.

An account that is often used for checks not yet sent to the bank is
"undeposited funds." This is similar to a suspense account in that there is
a timing difference between the receipt of a check and the time you
actually deposit it.  You could debit the undeposited funds account for the
amount of the payment. When the check clears the receiving bank, credit
Undeposited Funds and debit your Checking account.  You could add the check
number to the memo line or record the deposit as DEP ( being the
check number.

1.  Write check # 1718 for $100:
   Undeposited Funds  $100
   Checking Account A $100

2. Check clears the receiving bank:
   Checking Account B $100
   Undeposited Funds.  $100

I hope this helps.

Kate


On Mon, May 14, 2018, 3:21 PM RL  wrote:

> I have two bank accounts on which I regularly write checks to transfer
> amounts between them. Downloading the ofx files from each bank, I have,
> for those checks, transactions with different (correct) dates in each GC
> account which represent the left and right side of the same accounting
> transaction. For purposes of reconciling against the bank statements,
> these dates must remain different in their separate GC accounts, even
> though they are opposite ends of the same accounting transaction.
>
> GC wants to make the balancing transactions in each GC account one
> single identical transaction (except for the proper credit/debit column,
> depending on which account I'm looking at). I don't see how to work this
> and maintain both accounts true to their source, the bank transactions.
> The date is also important because at times it matters when a check was
> cashed and when it was payed by the originating bank; there needs to be
> an accurate record of this. An additional, maybe lesser, problem is that
> GC's methodology makes the transaction number the same in each GC
> account. Since the trans number is one of the most easily noted text
> fields, I have been using it to quickly/easily identify "deposits" - but
> this won't work if I want to retain the check number in that field (very
> important). Also, a check number on a deposit line doesn't seem
> particularly proper.
>
> How is this handled in GC?
>
>
> Thanks
> Rufus
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[RL]

Dave

Thanks for the insight. I had initially thought about the concept of a
"float" account but then figured there might be a more straightforward
way. I mean, this can't be all that uncommon... I'll have to think about
this a little, but now I know others have addressed this with a float
(or maybe call it a "link"?) account, I can be a more confident spending
time pursuing the concept. By chance I will be meeting with a real
accountant tomorrow and if circumstance favors I'll ask him about this
little issue. I would think the pro's would favor rigorous accuracy; I
wonder if their software does special tricks automatically or what?

Regards,
Rufus




On 05/14/2018 06:40 PM, David Carlson wrote:
> We all have our own definition of the the best way to handle these
> 'float' issues.  While most of us simply choose to let the date be
> technically incorrect in some accounts, others create what I believe are
> called 'suspense' accounts to serve as containers for the 'float'.
> 
> Those accounts could be asset type or liability type and they usually
> are given a name that strongly suggests their purpose as a temporary
> holding account.
> 
> David C
> 
> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 5:19 PM, RL  > wrote:
> 
> I have two bank accounts on which I regularly write checks to transfer
> amounts between them. Downloading the ofx files from each bank, I have,
> for those checks, transactions with different (correct) dates in each GC
> account which represent the left and right side of the same accounting
> transaction. For purposes of reconciling against the bank statements,
> these dates must remain different in their separate GC accounts, even
> though they are opposite ends of the same accounting transaction.
> 
> GC wants to make the balancing transactions in each GC account one
> single identical transaction (except for the proper credit/debit column,
> depending on which account I'm looking at). I don't see how to work this
> and maintain both accounts true to their source, the bank transactions.
> The date is also important because at times it matters when a check was
> cashed and when it was payed by the originating bank; there needs to be
> an accurate record of this. An additional, maybe lesser, problem is that
> GC's methodology makes the transaction number the same in each GC
> account. Since the trans number is one of the most easily noted text
> fields, I have been using it to quickly/easily identify "deposits" - but
> this won't work if I want to retain the check number in that field (very
> important). Also, a check number on a deposit line doesn't seem
> particularly proper.
> 
> How is this handled in GC?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rufus
> ___
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Re: [GNC] how do I get different dates for balancing transactions when transferring amounts between two accounts

[David Carlson]

We all have our own definition of the the best way to handle these 'float'
issues.  While most of us simply choose to let the date be technically
incorrect in some accounts, others create what I believe are called
'suspense' accounts to serve as containers for the 'float'.

Those accounts could be asset type or liability type and they usually are
given a name that strongly suggests their purpose as a temporary holding
account.

David C

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 5:19 PM, RL  wrote:

> I have two bank accounts on which I regularly write checks to transfer
> amounts between them. Downloading the ofx files from each bank, I have,
> for those checks, transactions with different (correct) dates in each GC
> account which represent the left and right side of the same accounting
> transaction. For purposes of reconciling against the bank statements,
> these dates must remain different in their separate GC accounts, even
> though they are opposite ends of the same accounting transaction.
>
> GC wants to make the balancing transactions in each GC account one
> single identical transaction (except for the proper credit/debit column,
> depending on which account I'm looking at). I don't see how to work this
> and maintain both accounts true to their source, the bank transactions.
> The date is also important because at times it matters when a check was
> cashed and when it was payed by the originating bank; there needs to be
> an accurate record of this. An additional, maybe lesser, problem is that
> GC's methodology makes the transaction number the same in each GC
> account. Since the trans number is one of the most easily noted text
> fields, I have been using it to quickly/easily identify "deposits" - but
> this won't work if I want to retain the check number in that field (very
> important). Also, a check number on a deposit line doesn't seem
> particularly proper.
>
> How is this handled in GC?
>
>
> Thanks
> Rufus
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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