[goa-research-net] Re: Sh or x in Konknni
approved:fredteo123 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 01/06/04 05:13:56 Dear Teo, I see that I should have trascribed the KBM name as they spell in Devanagari as follows: Konknni Bhaxa Monddoll. The truth about x and sh is that very few Konkani speakers are able to pronounce the retroflex sh. No wonder the Goa Konkani Akademi has made a rule about using x in preference to sh, except when it is a name of a person, or if the word is recently borrowed with the spelling found in the original language. That means, all the older borrowings from Sanskrit have to be spelt with a x and not with sh. TSKK had taken this position even before this rule. M. Almeida, S.J. - Original Message - From: "Teotonio R. de Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Goa Research Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 1:23 AM Subject: [goa-research-net] Re: Sh or x in Konknni > > Dear Jorge, > > Dr. Mariano Saldanha seems to have observed the rules of Konknni grammar > construction , namely that when one does not add genitive ending twice to > adjective and noun qualified by it. Only the final noun takes the possessive > ending, while the previous adjective or adjectival noun (bhaxa in this case) > remains in the root-form. What would you say:"Hanv moje khas maincho put" or > hanv moje khaxa maincho put? (I am really my mother's son). > > As to the your second point on which you seek my clarification, why have you > chosen only Hindu proper names? Please find some common nouns or adjectives > that would present similar difficulty or doubt? As for the proper names I > write Souza, but many others write Sousa! Let those Hindu guys use sh or x, > whichever they may prefer! Incidentally, I wish you had posted the > following mail also to Tskk for its opinion as you did with the earlier > posting. They are better placed to continue assisting you than myself on > long-term > basis. My occupations may permit me only occasionally to make my views known > > > > Teotonio R. de Souza > > > From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Goanet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > "Goa Research Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: sh or x in Konknni > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:36:14 +0100 > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Dear Dr. Teotonio, > > Thank you very much. But ... Was Dr. Mariano Saldanha righty in writing > "Konknni Bhaxa Monddollache"? Wouldn't it be more correct to write "Konknni > Bhas Monddollache" or "Konknni Bhaxechea Monddollache"? (And I am glad to > learn that he wrote "Monddollache" and not "Manddallache" - it sounds better > and more appropriate). > > And, while we are at it, would it be approriate to transliterate that sound > by "x" at the end of a word also (e.g. Rupex, Nilex, Dubax) or should we in > such a case opt for "sh" (Rupesh, Nilesh, Dubash)? Many thanks for a > clarification on this. > > Jorge > > --- > To Subscribe/Unsubscribe from Goa-Research-Net > --- > * Send us a brief self-intro to justify your interest in this > "specialized" forum. This should be sent to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT [EMAIL PROTECTED]) > * Leave SUBJECT blank > * On first line of the BODY of your message, type: > subscribe goa-research-net [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or > unsubscribe goa-research-net [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- --- To Subscribe/Unsubscribe from Goa-Research-Net --- * Send us a brief self-intro to justify your interest in this "specialized" forum. This should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT [EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Leave SUBJECT blank * On first line of the BODY of your message, type: subscribe goa-research-net [EMAIL PROTECTED] or unsubscribe goa-research-net [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
[goa-research-net] Re: Sh or x in Konknni
Dear Jorge, Dr. Mariano Saldanha seems to have observed the rules of Konknni grammar construction , namely that when one does not add genitive ending twice to adjective and noun qualified by it. Only the final noun takes the possessive ending, while the previous adjective or adjectival noun (bhaxa in this case) remains in the root-form. What would you say:"Hanv moje khas maincho put" or hanv moje khaxa maincho put? (I am really my mother's son). As to the your second point on which you seek my clarification, why have you chosen only Hindu proper names? Please find some common nouns or adjectives that would present similar difficulty or doubt? As for the proper names I write Souza, but many others write Sousa! Let those Hindu guys use sh or x, whichever they may prefer! Incidentally, I wish you had posted the following mail also to Tskk for its opinion as you did with the earlier posting. They are better placed to continue assisting you than myself on long-term basis. My occupations may permit me only occasionally to make my views known Teotonio R. de Souza From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Goanet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Goa Research Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: sh or x in Konknni Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:36:14 +0100 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Dr. Teotonio, Thank you very much. But ... Was Dr. Mariano Saldanha righty in writing "Konknni Bhaxa Monddollache"? Wouldn't it be more correct to write "Konknni Bhas Monddollache" or "Konknni Bhaxechea Monddollache"? (And I am glad to learn that he wrote "Monddollache" and not "Manddallache" - it sounds better and more appropriate). And, while we are at it, would it be approriate to transliterate that sound by "x" at the end of a word also (e.g. Rupex, Nilex, Dubax) or should we in such a case opt for "sh" (Rupesh, Nilesh, Dubash)? Many thanks for a clarification on this. Jorge --- To Subscribe/Unsubscribe from Goa-Research-Net --- * Send us a brief self-intro to justify your interest in this "specialized" forum. This should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT [EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Leave SUBJECT blank * On first line of the BODY of your message, type: subscribe goa-research-net [EMAIL PROTECTED] or unsubscribe goa-research-net [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
[goa-research-net] Re: sh or x in Konknni
Dear Jorge, Your point is well taken and I do agree with you that the concerned "Manddal may need to explain the use of its spelling! But as fas as I know, it utilises devanagari as its official script, and hence they may have little interest in how it is written by roman script users. I wish to refer the goanetters to the presidential speech of Dr. Mariano Saldanha to the "Panchvi Konknni Porixod" in Mumboi, 1952. His opening paragraph reads as follows: "Konknni porixodeche azche panchve boskechea Odhiokxponna khtir vinchun, mhaka he podvek chddoilo dekhun, hanv adim pole Konknni Bhaxa Monddollache ani tumche upkar manun, tika chodd aukh and tumkam hea kamant ies mellchem, oxem magtam". Teotonio R. de Souza From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Goanet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: Use of sh or x in Konknni Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:54:48 +0100 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A very informative piece of elucidation by Fr. Mathew Almeida, no doubt. But I still have a little doubt about the "sh" symbol or retroflex not being regularly used or employed in Konkani. If this is so, then surely "Konkani Bhasha Mandal" should pass a resolution at one of their general assemblies to officially change its roman-script written name to "Konknni Bhas Manddall" or - better still, in my opinion - "Konknni Bhaxechem Manddall". What would Dr. Teotonio R. de Souza, Fr. Mathew Almeida and Fr. Pratap Naik (from TSKK), Dr. Pundalik Naik (from the Goa Konknni Akademi) and such luminaries as Dr. ManoharRai SarDessai have to say about this? --- To Subscribe/Unsubscribe from Goa-Research-Net --- * Send us a brief self-intro to justify your interest in this "specialized" forum. This should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT [EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Leave SUBJECT blank * On first line of the BODY of your message, type: subscribe goa-research-net [EMAIL PROTECTED] or unsubscribe goa-research-net [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
