Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Bosman, J.M. (Jeroen)]

Dear Stephen,

Thanks for your reaction. I should have said "Any publication shared with a 
CC-license is free of charges, as is any publication you find online shared 
with a public domain dedication. Period."

Of course, as you rightly say there can be paid (re)publications of works in 
the public domain. And indeed licenses (whether liberal or restricted) do not 
guarantee availability. That can only be promised but not guaranteed by 
libraries and sustainable online archives with good contingency plans.

Jeroen Bosman
Utrecht University Library

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org] on behalf of Downes, 
Stephen [stephen.dow...@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:35 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access


Jeroen Bosman wrote, "Any publication shared with a CC-license is free of 
charges, as is any publication in the public domain. Period."


This is simply not true.


Thomas Hardy's book 'The Mayor of Casterbridge' is public domain, having been 
published in 1886. However, if you go to a book store and try to take a copy 
without paying, you will be arrested and charged with theft.


If you search for it online, you can find it for sale on Amazon and other 
sites. You will have to pay money before they give you a copy.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56759.The_Mayor_of_Casterbridge


It is true that you can find it for free on sites like Project Gutenberg.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/143/143-h/143-h.htm


But it's availability for free is not guaranteed by the license. Someone like 
Project Gutenberg must make it available for download. If this doesn't happen, 
then the only way to get a copy to pay money. Even if it's CC or public domain.


-- Stephen



Stephen Downes

National Research Council Canada | Conseil national de recherches Canada
1200 rue Montreal Road 349 M-50, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0R6
Tel.: (613) 993 0288  Mobile: (613) 292 1789
stephen.dow...@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca<mailto:stephen.dow...@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> ~ 
http://www.downes.ca<http://www.downes.ca/>

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org <goal-boun...@eprints.org> on behalf of Bosman, 
J.M. (Jeroen) <j.bos...@uu.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:08 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

Heather,

Again, I think this argument creates much confusion.

Any publication shared with a CC-license is free of charges, as is any 
publication in the public domain. Period.

(Just for reference, as I am sure that you know the license terms, this is what 
the CC-BY license says: "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, 
non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the 
Licensed Material to:
reproduce and Share the Licensed Material, in whole or in part; and produce, 
reproduce, and Share Adapted Material.")

The fact that I can put water from a free public tap provided by a municipality 
into a bottle and try to sell that bottle to people for 3€ does not make that 
water from the tap less free. (For the sake of the argument just supposing that 
the flow of water is endless.)

Having commercial additional functions on open access content that carries a 
CC-BY license or is in the public domain is fully compatible with the 
principles of the scholarly commons. The free, open version will remain in 
place as part of the common pool of resources.

By the way, even if you use a CC-BY-BC license and even if your publication is 
fully copyrighted without any CC-license, private profits can be generated form 
using the metadata, as Google Scholar, Dimensions and other products show. Your 
CC-BY-NC licensed publication makes these products more valuable, just by being 
able to refer to it.

And if you are looking for examples of companies charging for free stuff, the 
best example you can find nowadays in de scholalry world is probably . 
JSTOR. Look for instance at their Sustainability thematic collection 
(https://about.jstor.org/whats-in-jstor/sustainability/) that consists of many 
thousands of reports freely available on the web and sold for many thousands of 
dollars in yearly subscriptions to libraries.

Jeroen Bosman
Utrecht University Library

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org] on behalf of Heather 
Morrison [heather.morri...@uottawa.ca]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:56 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument at a 
time.

Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and fac

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Heather Morrison]

Ok. It is helpful in discussion to know if we are talking about the same thing. 
Here is another aim at clarification:

Public domain refers to works that are no longer in copyright. This means that 
the original copyright holder no longer has exclusive economic or moral rights. 
This means that anyone can take the work and do whatever they like with it. 
This includes making the work available for free or selling it as is, or making 
a derivative and making that available for free or for sale as they please. 
Attribution of the original is not required.

Do you agree? If so, shortening the period of copyright for scholarly works has 
this effect in this time frame.

If you do not agree with this statement, can you explain why?

best,

Heather Morrison


 Original message 
From: "Bosman, J.M. (Jeroen)" <j.bos...@uu.nl>
Date: 2018-03-24 4:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <goal@eprints.org>
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

I have been arguing none of those three.

Jeroen



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


 Original message 
From: Heather Morrison <heather.morri...@uottawa.ca>
Date: 24/03/2018 18:20 (GMT+01:00)
To: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <goal@eprints.org>
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

Jeroen,

For clarification, can you confirm that you are arguing:

1. The "royalty free" clause in CC-BY means that works licensed CC-BY means a) 
the copyright holder is obliged to make the work available for free and b) no 
one downstream can legally include the work in a package of toll access 
services?

2. "Public domain" means that no one can legally sell the work?

best,

Heather Morrison


 Original message 
From: "Bosman, J.M. (Jeroen)" <j.bos...@uu.nl>
Date: 2018-03-24 12:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <goal@eprints.org>
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

Heather,

Again, I think this argument creates much confusion.

Any publication shared with a CC-license is free of charges, as is any 
publication in the public domain. Period.

(Just for reference, as I am sure that you know the license terms, this is what 
the CC-BY license says: "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, 
non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the 
Licensed Material to:
reproduce and Share the Licensed Material, in whole or in part; and produce, 
reproduce, and Share Adapted Material.")

The fact that I can put water from a free public tap provided by a municipality 
into a bottle and try to sell that bottle to people for 3€ does not make that 
water from the tap less free. (For the sake of the argument just supposing that 
the flow of water is endless.)

Having commercial additional functions on open access content that carries a 
CC-BY license or is in the public domain is fully compatible with the 
principles of the scholarly commons. The free, open version will remain in 
place as part of the common pool of resources.

By the way, even if you use a CC-BY-BC license and even if your publication is 
fully copyrighted without any CC-license, private profits can be generated form 
using the metadata, as Google Scholar, Dimensions and other products show. Your 
CC-BY-NC licensed publication makes these products more valuable, just by being 
able to refer to it.

And if you are looking for examples of companies charging for free stuff, the 
best example you can find nowadays in de scholalry world is probably . 
JSTOR. Look for instance at their Sustainability thematic collection 
(https://about.jstor.org/whats-in-jstor/sustainability/) that consists of many 
thousands of reports freely available on the web and sold for many thousands of 
dollars in yearly subscriptions to libraries.

Jeroen Bosman
Utrecht University Library

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org] on behalf of Heather 
Morrison [heather.morri...@uottawa.ca]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:56 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument at a 
time.

Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and facilitates, toll access, 
both by the original publisher and downstream.

To date the best examples I have seen of creative use of CC-BY for commercial 
profit-making are Elsevier's ability to incorporate such works into their toll 
access services such as Scopus and metadata sales, at no cost to Elsevier, and 
Springer's harvesting of images from CC-BY works for TA image bank (few years 
ago).

US public domain to works created by federal employees

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Bosman, J.M. (Jeroen)]

I have been arguing none of those three.

Jeroen



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


 Original message 
From: Heather Morrison <heather.morri...@uottawa.ca>
Date: 24/03/2018 18:20 (GMT+01:00)
To: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <goal@eprints.org>
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

Jeroen,

For clarification, can you confirm that you are arguing:

1. The "royalty free" clause in CC-BY means that works licensed CC-BY means a) 
the copyright holder is obliged to make the work available for free and b) no 
one downstream can legally include the work in a package of toll access 
services?

2. "Public domain" means that no one can legally sell the work?

best,

Heather Morrison


 Original message 
From: "Bosman, J.M. (Jeroen)" <j.bos...@uu.nl>
Date: 2018-03-24 12:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <goal@eprints.org>
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

Heather,

Again, I think this argument creates much confusion.

Any publication shared with a CC-license is free of charges, as is any 
publication in the public domain. Period.

(Just for reference, as I am sure that you know the license terms, this is what 
the CC-BY license says: "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, 
non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the 
Licensed Material to:
reproduce and Share the Licensed Material, in whole or in part; and produce, 
reproduce, and Share Adapted Material.")

The fact that I can put water from a free public tap provided by a municipality 
into a bottle and try to sell that bottle to people for 3€ does not make that 
water from the tap less free. (For the sake of the argument just supposing that 
the flow of water is endless.)

Having commercial additional functions on open access content that carries a 
CC-BY license or is in the public domain is fully compatible with the 
principles of the scholarly commons. The free, open version will remain in 
place as part of the common pool of resources.

By the way, even if you use a CC-BY-BC license and even if your publication is 
fully copyrighted without any CC-license, private profits can be generated form 
using the metadata, as Google Scholar, Dimensions and other products show. Your 
CC-BY-NC licensed publication makes these products more valuable, just by being 
able to refer to it.

And if you are looking for examples of companies charging for free stuff, the 
best example you can find nowadays in de scholalry world is probably . 
JSTOR. Look for instance at their Sustainability thematic collection 
(https://about.jstor.org/whats-in-jstor/sustainability/) that consists of many 
thousands of reports freely available on the web and sold for many thousands of 
dollars in yearly subscriptions to libraries.

Jeroen Bosman
Utrecht University Library

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org] on behalf of Heather 
Morrison [heather.morri...@uottawa.ca]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:56 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument at a 
time.

Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and facilitates, toll access, 
both by the original publisher and downstream.

To date the best examples I have seen of creative use of CC-BY for commercial 
profit-making are Elsevier's ability to incorporate such works into their toll 
access services such as Scopus and metadata sales, at no cost to Elsevier, and 
Springer's harvesting of images from CC-BY works for TA image bank (few years 
ago).

US public domain to works created by federal employees works really well in 
areas where the US government itself posts the works online for free access. 
Published works that are public domain are often included in toll access 
packages. Not even PubMed has free access to all the works created by its own 
employees.

Public domain and Creative Commons are not necessarily "free of charge". Hence 
if free of charge is essential to a definition of open access, neither public 
domain nor CC are sufficient to achieve OA.

best,

Heather Morrison
___
GOAL mailing list
GOAL@eprints.org
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Peter Murray-Rust]

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 5:27 PM, Heather Morrison <
heather.morri...@uottawa.ca> wrote:

> CC-BY does grant blanket commercial rights to harvest and sell works, or
> portions of works such as images
>

Agreed. and also derivative works. However with CC BY the re-user must
(normally) acknowledge original ownership or authorship and may be required
to attach a copy of the original licence.

>
> Re: "the price of freedom is that someone should keep and advertise at
> least one copy of the original": this is an important point, but you need
> to add "free of charge", otherwise this could become a toll access service.
>

It's a slightly fluid point. I might make works available on a physical
device such as a SSD.  I reserve the right to charge for the memory stick
and possibly the labour involved.

The OKF (sic) anticipated this in the Open Definition (in which I
participated) which states (http://opendefinition.org/od/2.1/en/ )
>>1.2 Access

The *work* *must* be provided as a whole and at no more than a reasonable
one-time reproduction cost, and *should* be downloadable via the Internet
without charge. Any additional information necessary for license compliance
(such as names of contributors required for compliance with attribution
requirements) *must* also accompany the work.
>>1.3 Machine Readability

The *work* *must* be provided in a form readily processable by a computer
and where the individual elements of the work can be easily accessed and
modified.
>>1.4 Open Format

The *work* *must* be provided in an open format. An open format is one
which places no restrictions, monetary or otherwise, upon its use and can
be fully processed with at least one free/libre/open-source software tool.

<<
Note the use of "a reasonable one-time reproduction cost". This means that
I might ask a re-user for (say) 20 USD for media. But the re-user can then
re-copy at their own expense without permission and could offer it to
others without charge.


HM>I argue that this is one of the reasons OA repositories are necessary to
sustain OA. Publishers have no obligation to continue to exist or continue
publishing, never mind an ongoing obligation to make works freely available
on a perpetual basis.

PMR> I completely agree. Open repositories and maybe national libraries are
the primary guarantee of indefinite Openness. There have (I believe) been
examples of Open Access journals being purchased and then disappearing.
There is also the problem of "hybrid" open access becoming closed by
"mistake". I have certainly highlighted this in the past. IMO Libraries
should be assiduousy ingesting "hybrid" and publicising the contents and
location and adding search engines.

P

-- 
Peter Murray-Rust
Reader Emeritus in Molecular Informatics
Unilever Centre, Dept. Of Chemistry
University of Cambridge
CB2 1EW, UK
+44-1223-763069 <+44%201223%20763069>

>
> ___
> GOAL mailing list
> GOAL@eprints.org
> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
>
>


-- 
Peter Murray-Rust
Reader Emeritus in Molecular Informatics
Unilever Centre, Dept. Of Chemistry
University of Cambridge
CB2 1EW, UK
+44-1223-763069
___
GOAL mailing list
GOAL@eprints.org
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Heather Morrison]

Thank you for the clarification. Regardless of what Springer was doing a few 
years ago, CC-BY does grant blanket commercial rights to harvest and sell 
works, or portions of works such as images

Re: "the price of freedom is that someone should keep and advertise at least 
one copy of the original": this is an important point, but you need to add 
"free of charge", otherwise this could become a toll access service.

I argue that this is one of the reasons OA repositories are necessary to 
sustain OA. Publishers have no obligation to continue to exist or continue 
publishing, never mind an ongoing obligation to make works freely available on 
a perpetual basis.

best,

Heather Morrison


 Original message 
From: Peter Murray-Rust <pm...@cam.ac.uk>
Date: 2018-03-24 1:12 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <goal@eprints.org>
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access



On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Heather Morrison 
<heather.morri...@uottawa.ca<mailto:heather.morri...@uottawa.ca>> wrote:
This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument at a 
time.

Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and facilitates, toll access, 
both by the original publisher and downstream.

To date the best examples I have seen of creative use of CC-BY for commercial 
profit-making are Elsevier's ability to incorporate such works into their toll 
access services such as Scopus and metadata sales, at no cost to Elsevier, and 
Springer's harvesting of images from CC-BY works for TA image bank (few years 
ago).

Assuming ths was the collection of images into "Springer Images" in 2012 this 
is not a correct record. I have documented this in considerable detail in my 
blog - there are many entries (e.g. 
https://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr/2012/06/06/springergate-springerimages-for-today/
 and entries on both sides).

Springer collected [all the?]  images in the articles thay had published over 
several years. They did this without regard to the licences or ownership or 
authorship. They stamped this "Copyright Springer". In thousands of case this 
was a direct violation of copyright. I challenged this and BiomedCentral (an 
open access publisher then recently acquired by Springer) had to sort the mess 
out.


US public domain to works created by federal employees works really well in 
areas where the US government itself posts the works online for free access. 
Published works that are public domain are often included in toll access 
packages. Not even PubMed has free access to all the works created by its own 
employees.

Public domain and Creative Commons are not necessarily "free of charge". Hence 
if free of charge is essential to a definition of open access, neither public 
domain nor CC are sufficient to achieve OA.

Material that is PD or CC BY (or CC BY-SA) can be copied without permission 
from the licensor and without charge. (There may be a charge for the materials 
involved in copying). Once someone has a copy of a PD or CC BY work they can 
copy it indefinitely without payment to the copyright holder. The only way that 
a licensor could prevent this free copying is not to make any copies available, 
ever.

The price of freedom is that someone should keep and advertise at least one 
copy of the original. If all copies happen to be lost (as may happen) then the 
work may effectively become "closed" .It is important, therefore, that copies 
are kept of all CC0/CC BY. If this is done then the work can never become 
closed (unless there is a retrospective change in the law or copyright, which 
we should fight).

CC BY gives the following rights. (from 
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)

You are free to:

  *   Share - copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
  *   Adapt - remix, transform, and build upon the material
  *   for any purpose, even commercially.
  *


<https://freedomdefined.org/>

  *   The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the 
license terms.

An added request: when referring to CC licences please specify which. I 
frequently see "published under a CC licence". Some CC licences are very 
liberal and others very restrictive. See https://creativecommons.org/licenses/


P.



best,

Heather Morrison

___
GOAL mailing list
GOAL@eprints.org<mailto:GOAL@eprints.org>
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal




--
Peter Murray-Rust
Reader Emeritus in Molecular Informatics
Unilever Centre, Dept. Of Chemistry
University of Cambridge
CB2 1EW, UK
+44-1223-763069
___
GOAL mailing list
GOAL@eprints.org
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Peter Murray-Rust]

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Heather Morrison <
heather.morri...@uottawa.ca> wrote:

> This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument
> at a time.
>
> Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and facilitates, toll
> access, both by the original publisher and downstream.
>
> To date the best examples I have seen of creative use of CC-BY for
> commercial profit-making are Elsevier's ability to incorporate such works
> into their toll access services such as Scopus and metadata sales, at no
> cost to Elsevier, and Springer's harvesting of images from CC-BY works for
> TA image bank (few years ago).
>

Assuming ths was the collection of images into "Springer Images" in 2012
this is not a correct record. I have documented this in considerable detail
in my blog - there are many entries (e.g.
https://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr/2012/06/06/springergate-springerimages-for-today/
and entries on both sides).

Springer collected [all the?]  images in the articles thay had published
over several years. They did this without regard to the licences or
ownership or authorship. They stamped this "Copyright Springer". In
thousands of case this was a direct violation of copyright. I challenged
this and BiomedCentral (an open access publisher then recently acquired by
Springer) had to sort the mess out.


>
> US public domain to works created by federal employees works really well
> in areas where the US government itself posts the works online for free
> access. Published works that are public domain are often included in toll
> access packages. Not even PubMed has free access to all the works created
> by its own employees.
>
> Public domain and Creative Commons are not necessarily "free of charge".
> Hence if free of charge is essential to a definition of open access,
> neither public domain nor CC are sufficient to achieve OA.
>

Material that is PD or CC BY (or CC BY-SA) can be copied without permission
from the licensor and without charge. (There may be a charge for the
materials involved in copying). Once someone has a copy of a PD or CC BY
work they can copy it indefinitely without payment to the copyright holder.
The only way that a licensor could prevent this free copying is not to make
any copies available, ever.

The price of freedom is that someone should keep and advertise at least one
copy of the original. If all copies happen to be lost (as may happen) then
the work may effectively become "closed" .It is important, therefore, that
copies are kept of all CC0/CC BY. If this is done then the work can never
become closed (unless there is a retrospective change in the law or
copyright, which we should fight).

CC BY gives the following rights. (from
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)

You are free to:

   - *Share* — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
   - *Adapt* — remix, transform, and build upon the material
   - for any purpose, even commercially.
   -




   - The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the
   license terms.

An added request: when referring to CC licences please specify which. I
frequently see "published under a CC licence". Some CC licences are very
liberal and others very restrictive. See
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/


P.





> best,
>
> Heather Morrison
>
> ___
> GOAL mailing list
> GOAL@eprints.org
> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
>
>


-- 
Peter Murray-Rust
Reader Emeritus in Molecular Informatics
Unilever Centre, Dept. Of Chemistry
University of Cambridge
CB2 1EW, UK
+44-1223-763069
___
GOAL mailing list
GOAL@eprints.org
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Heather Morrison]

Jeroen,

For clarification, can you confirm that you are arguing:

1. The "royalty free" clause in CC-BY means that works licensed CC-BY means a) 
the copyright holder is obliged to make the work available for free and b) no 
one downstream can legally include the work in a package of toll access 
services?

2. "Public domain" means that no one can legally sell the work?

best,

Heather Morrison


 Original message 
From: "Bosman, J.M. (Jeroen)" <j.bos...@uu.nl>
Date: 2018-03-24 12:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <goal@eprints.org>
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

Heather,

Again, I think this argument creates much confusion.

Any publication shared with a CC-license is free of charges, as is any 
publication in the public domain. Period.

(Just for reference, as I am sure that you know the license terms, this is what 
the CC-BY license says: "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, 
non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the 
Licensed Material to:
reproduce and Share the Licensed Material, in whole or in part; and produce, 
reproduce, and Share Adapted Material.")

The fact that I can put water from a free public tap provided by a municipality 
into a bottle and try to sell that bottle to people for 3€ does not make that 
water from the tap less free. (For the sake of the argument just supposing that 
the flow of water is endless.)

Having commercial additional functions on open access content that carries a 
CC-BY license or is in the public domain is fully compatible with the 
principles of the scholarly commons. The free, open version will remain in 
place as part of the common pool of resources.

By the way, even if you use a CC-BY-BC license and even if your publication is 
fully copyrighted without any CC-license, private profits can be generated form 
using the metadata, as Google Scholar, Dimensions and other products show. Your 
CC-BY-NC licensed publication makes these products more valuable, just by being 
able to refer to it.

And if you are looking for examples of companies charging for free stuff, the 
best example you can find nowadays in de scholalry world is probably . 
JSTOR. Look for instance at their Sustainability thematic collection 
(https://about.jstor.org/whats-in-jstor/sustainability/) that consists of many 
thousands of reports freely available on the web and sold for many thousands of 
dollars in yearly subscriptions to libraries.

Jeroen Bosman
Utrecht University Library

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org] on behalf of Heather 
Morrison [heather.morri...@uottawa.ca]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:56 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument at a 
time.

Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and facilitates, toll access, 
both by the original publisher and downstream.

To date the best examples I have seen of creative use of CC-BY for commercial 
profit-making are Elsevier's ability to incorporate such works into their toll 
access services such as Scopus and metadata sales, at no cost to Elsevier, and 
Springer's harvesting of images from CC-BY works for TA image bank (few years 
ago).

US public domain to works created by federal employees works really well in 
areas where the US government itself posts the works online for free access. 
Published works that are public domain are often included in toll access 
packages. Not even PubMed has free access to all the works created by its own 
employees.

Public domain and Creative Commons are not necessarily "free of charge". Hence 
if free of charge is essential to a definition of open access, neither public 
domain nor CC are sufficient to achieve OA.

best,

Heather Morrison
___
GOAL mailing list
GOAL@eprints.org
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Downes, Stephen]

Jeroen Bosman wrote, "Any publication shared with a CC-license is free of 
charges, as is any publication in the public domain. Period."


This is simply not true.


Thomas Hardy's book 'The Mayor of Casterbridge' is public domain, having been 
published in 1886. However, if you go to a book store and try to take a copy 
without paying, you will be arrested and charged with theft.


If you search for it online, you can find it for sale on Amazon and other 
sites. You will have to pay money before they give you a copy.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56759.The_Mayor_of_Casterbridge


It is true that you can find it for free on sites like Project Gutenberg.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/143/143-h/143-h.htm


But it's availability for free is not guaranteed by the license. Someone like 
Project Gutenberg must make it available for download. If this doesn't happen, 
then the only way to get a copy to pay money. Even if it's CC or public domain.


-- Stephen



Stephen Downes

National Research Council Canada | Conseil national de recherches Canada
1200 rue Montreal Road 349 M-50, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0R6
Tel.: (613) 993 0288  Mobile: (613) 292 1789
stephen.dow...@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca<mailto:stephen.dow...@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> ~ 
http://www.downes.ca<http://www.downes.ca/>

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org <goal-boun...@eprints.org> on behalf of Bosman, 
J.M. (Jeroen) <j.bos...@uu.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:08 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

Heather,

Again, I think this argument creates much confusion.

Any publication shared with a CC-license is free of charges, as is any 
publication in the public domain. Period.

(Just for reference, as I am sure that you know the license terms, this is what 
the CC-BY license says: "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, 
non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the 
Licensed Material to:
reproduce and Share the Licensed Material, in whole or in part; and produce, 
reproduce, and Share Adapted Material.")

The fact that I can put water from a free public tap provided by a municipality 
into a bottle and try to sell that bottle to people for 3€ does not make that 
water from the tap less free. (For the sake of the argument just supposing that 
the flow of water is endless.)

Having commercial additional functions on open access content that carries a 
CC-BY license or is in the public domain is fully compatible with the 
principles of the scholarly commons. The free, open version will remain in 
place as part of the common pool of resources.

By the way, even if you use a CC-BY-BC license and even if your publication is 
fully copyrighted without any CC-license, private profits can be generated form 
using the metadata, as Google Scholar, Dimensions and other products show. Your 
CC-BY-NC licensed publication makes these products more valuable, just by being 
able to refer to it.

And if you are looking for examples of companies charging for free stuff, the 
best example you can find nowadays in de scholalry world is probably . 
JSTOR. Look for instance at their Sustainability thematic collection 
(https://about.jstor.org/whats-in-jstor/sustainability/) that consists of many 
thousands of reports freely available on the web and sold for many thousands of 
dollars in yearly subscriptions to libraries.

Jeroen Bosman
Utrecht University Library

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org] on behalf of Heather 
Morrison [heather.morri...@uottawa.ca]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:56 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument at a 
time.

Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and facilitates, toll access, 
both by the original publisher and downstream.

To date the best examples I have seen of creative use of CC-BY for commercial 
profit-making are Elsevier's ability to incorporate such works into their toll 
access services such as Scopus and metadata sales, at no cost to Elsevier, and 
Springer's harvesting of images from CC-BY works for TA image bank (few years 
ago).

US public domain to works created by federal employees works really well in 
areas where the US government itself posts the works online for free access. 
Published works that are public domain are often included in toll access 
packages. Not even PubMed has free access to all the works created by its own 
employees.

Public domain and Creative Commons are not necessarily "free of charge". Hence 
if free of charge is essential to a definition of open access, neit

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Bosman, J.M. (Jeroen)]

Heather,

Again, I think this argument creates much confusion.

Any publication shared with a CC-license is free of charges, as is any 
publication in the public domain. Period.

(Just for reference, as I am sure that you know the license terms, this is what 
the CC-BY license says: "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, 
non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the 
Licensed Material to:
reproduce and Share the Licensed Material, in whole or in part; and produce, 
reproduce, and Share Adapted Material.")

The fact that I can put water from a free public tap provided by a municipality 
into a bottle and try to sell that bottle to people for 3€ does not make that 
water from the tap less free. (For the sake of the argument just supposing that 
the flow of water is endless.)

Having commercial additional functions on open access content that carries a 
CC-BY license or is in the public domain is fully compatible with the 
principles of the scholarly commons. The free, open version will remain in 
place as part of the common pool of resources.

By the way, even if you use a CC-BY-BC license and even if your publication is 
fully copyrighted without any CC-license, private profits can be generated form 
using the metadata, as Google Scholar, Dimensions and other products show. Your 
CC-BY-NC licensed publication makes these products more valuable, just by being 
able to refer to it.

And if you are looking for examples of companies charging for free stuff, the 
best example you can find nowadays in de scholalry world is probably . 
JSTOR. Look for instance at their Sustainability thematic collection 
(https://about.jstor.org/whats-in-jstor/sustainability/) that consists of many 
thousands of reports freely available on the web and sold for many thousands of 
dollars in yearly subscriptions to libraries.

Jeroen Bosman
Utrecht University Library

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org] on behalf of Heather 
Morrison [heather.morri...@uottawa.ca]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:56 PM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument at a 
time.

Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and facilitates, toll access, 
both by the original publisher and downstream.

To date the best examples I have seen of creative use of CC-BY for commercial 
profit-making are Elsevier's ability to incorporate such works into their toll 
access services such as Scopus and metadata sales, at no cost to Elsevier, and 
Springer's harvesting of images from CC-BY works for TA image bank (few years 
ago).

US public domain to works created by federal employees works really well in 
areas where the US government itself posts the works online for free access. 
Published works that are public domain are often included in toll access 
packages. Not even PubMed has free access to all the works created by its own 
employees.

Public domain and Creative Commons are not necessarily "free of charge". Hence 
if free of charge is essential to a definition of open access, neither public 
domain nor CC are sufficient to achieve OA.

best,

Heather Morrison
___
GOAL mailing list
GOAL@eprints.org
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal

Re: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

[Downes, Stephen]

To add to Heather's point, many academics (including myself) opt to publish 
under a CC NC (non-commercial) license in order to preserve free access to our 
materials.


-- Stephen



Stephen Downes

National Research Council Canada | Conseil national de recherches Canada
1200 rue Montreal Road 349 M-50, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0R6
Tel.: (613) 993 0288  Mobile: (613) 292 1789
stephen.dow...@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca<mailto:stephen.dow...@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> ~ 
http://www.downes.ca<http://www.downes.ca/>

From: goal-boun...@eprints.org <goal-boun...@eprints.org> on behalf of Heather 
Morrison <heather.morri...@uottawa.ca>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 9:56 AM
To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
Subject: [GOAL] Public domain and/or CC-BY facilitate toll access

This is a repeat of one argument I made last week to focus on one argument at a 
time.

Either public domain or CC-BY is consistent with, and facilitates, toll access, 
both by the original publisher and downstream.

To date the best examples I have seen of creative use of CC-BY for commercial 
profit-making are Elsevier's ability to incorporate such works into their toll 
access services such as Scopus and metadata sales, at no cost to Elsevier, and 
Springer's harvesting of images from CC-BY works for TA image bank (few years 
ago).

US public domain to works created by federal employees works really well in 
areas where the US government itself posts the works online for free access. 
Published works that are public domain are often included in toll access 
packages. Not even PubMed has free access to all the works created by its own 
employees.

Public domain and Creative Commons are not necessarily "free of charge". Hence 
if free of charge is essential to a definition of open access, neither public 
domain nor CC are sufficient to achieve OA.

best,

Heather Morrison
___
GOAL mailing list
GOAL@eprints.org
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal