[Goanet] The infamous Preet Mandir again
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Members will recall that Preet Mandir in Carona, Aldona had been in the news for all the wrong reasons about six months ago (all the articles, including an earlier Frontline piece had been posted here, and can be seen in the archives). Now the sting operation by CNN-IBN has put them on the spot. Apparently, today and tomorrow, (22 and 23 June) CNN-IBN will be telecasting their coverage of the Preet Mandir operations in Carona. This once again underscores the growing inter-country adoption racket, and the need to regulate and control it. What is tragic is that the work of good organisations which are doing genuine work in the area of adoption gets besmirched as a kind of side-effect. What is shocking is the negligence (at best) or collusion of the Goa government in granting them a licence, even when an enquiry by the same Goa government was still pending. The Gomantak Times articles of the past two days are pasted below. Gomantak Times, 21/6/06 CNN-IBN sting operation 'exposes' Pune's 'baby shop' TV report states that Preet Mandir broke every adoption law Preet Mandir Price tag: 12,000$ for one child, 24,000$ for two By Our Staff Reporter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Panjim: Adoption is not just about creating a new family, but it's about dollars for which every adoption law of the country is thrown away, exposed a TV channel CNN IBN on Monday. Focusing on adoption centre Preet Mandir, Pune –which also has a branch in Goa, in its first part, the channel revealed that the owner of Preet Mandir JS Bhasin has been selling babies to foreigners for years, breaking every adoption law in the country. According to CNN-IBN Preet Mandir is his baby shop It may be recalled the GT-Weekender had investigated that a child of a 16 year old minor mother was taken by Preet Mandir Goa, ostensibly for shelter, but the illiterate mother was made to sign (put a thumb impression) papers which said that the child was being given for adoption. After the GT expose Chief Secretary Kiran Dhingra asked for an inquiry. Even while the inquiry was going on, the state government gave Preet Mandir –Goa, a licence for in country adoption. Six CNN-IBN reporters did a Special Investigation over six months in Pune, Rourkela, Cochin and London, which will be telecast from Monday to Friday. In the first part, two CNN-IBN reporters posing as a wealthy and childless NRI couple landed up at Preet Mandir to adopt a child, where the owner Bhasin had babies on offer. Transcripts of the conversation with Bhasin CNN-IBN: I have a medical problem and want to adopt a child, but my husband is dead against it. I however, am convinced but I have no idea how to go about the entire adoption process. CNN-IBN: How much do NRIs normally pay to adopt a child? J S Bhasin (Preet Mandir): Well earlier it was between $6000 to $8000. Then prices went up and it is now $12,000. You see Indians - soldiers, rickshaw pullers - cannot afford to pay so much. They just give about Rs 5000, but I say it's okay because then there are people like you who are supporting them with $12,000. J S Bhasin: Can you say you earn roughly say $20,000 per year? CNN-IBN: Yes, yes. In fact a lot more than that. J S Bhasin: You just select a child. We will do the rest of it done legally-paperwork, passport documents for the baby - just don't worry. CNN-IBN: So in $12,000 you will take care of all our needs at getting this done? J S Bhasin: Our social and legal department will do everything, so don't worry. It's not a problem at all. CNN-IBN: If I decide to adopt siblings or twins? J S Bhasin: Double the price for two children. BOX 1 inside the main story 'Let the series conclude, we'll react later' When GT contacted Preet Mandir at Pune, all officials were tight-lipped on the issue. Despite several attempts, GT couldn't get across Bhasin. All that a spokesperson for Preet Mandir, on condition of anonymity, said was, At the moment this is a running story. Let the whole series by CNN IBN come to a conclusion, then only we will talk to the media. Earlier, reacting to GT-Weekender's stories, Preet Mandir had asserted that they followed all laws and were perfectly legal. We have been giving children hope and a future, Mr Bhasin had said BOX 2 QUOTEROOM JP Singh, Chief Secretary I have not seen the telecast. Let me look into it. Snehlata Bhatikar, member, Juvenile Justice Board Generally speaking, government should be giving permission
[Goanet] Re: Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re evangelisation)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 17:22 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet] Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re evangelisation) The Pope is talking about conversions that take place in India voluntarily. And it is the moral right of every human being to convert if he so desires. Certainly. That is what is so objectionable about all these anti-conversion laws being passed in BJP-ruled states. The Indian constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and the freedom to convert is implicitly guaranteed as well. George's idea of a moratorium on evangelisation/proselytisation is certainly good -- as long as it is self-imposed, and not brought in through clearly unconstitutional legislation. There are certainly some 'forceful' conversions still taking place, but the existing laws which bar the use of material inducements already cover this aspect. MV Kamath, writes this in his letter: The Pope owes an apology to Hindus and to India on bended knees. M.V. Kamath is a well-known ideologue and apologist for the Sangh Parivar, and need not be taken seriously. Or maybe one could say that K.S. Sudarshan owes an apology to Christians and the Vatican on bended knees :-) Really, did Hindu religious authorities offer apologies to Christians or the Pope, when they saw fit to burn Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two sons. Please, this kind of confusion is dangerous. What Hindu religious authorities? Since when did the Bajrang Dal and the BJP and their brethren acquire the status of religious authorities? We must always be careful to distinguish between Hinduism (the religion) and Hindutva (the political ideology). The dangers of such confusion are clear, to make an analogy, what if people the world over start blaming Christians in general and 'Christian religious authorities' for the imperialist agenda of George Bush, which is clearly motivated by his skewed interpretation of Christian fundamentalist doctrine? -- Question everything -- Karl Marx _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] You are lucky, You are meritorious.
Sometimes one needs a poet to put social reality in perspective. Here is the great Telugu leftist poet Varvara Rao on the recent reservation controversy. Got it off another mailgroup, don't know who the translation is credited to. Please circulate widely. Lucky You are born rich To say in your language `Born with silver spoon in the mouth' Your agitation sounds creative Our agony looks violent You are meritorious You can break glass of buses In a shape As symmetric as Sun rays You can deflate the tires With artistic élan While indulgent police look on With their jaws rested on rifle butts You can tie `Rakhis' Even in The dark chambers Of a police station You do not buy bus ticket Not because Your pocket is empty That is practical protest The beautiful roads Are all yours Whether you do a `Rasta Roko' Or drive vehicles with `save merit' stickers We are bare-footed Sweat-stinking road rollers What if we built the roads? The merit of plan is yours The credit of contract is also yours Those exhilarating sixty days, what fun! When your cute little girls And their daredevil mates Were going on a delectable rampage, Everybody was delighted Parents, their parents Brothers and sisters Even the servants And reporting Newspapers? Oh, absolutely thrilled! Boys and girls Hand in hand In protest Of buried merit and dashed future Going off to a picnic O Yaar, How heroic! You are the marathoners In merit competition Poor tortoises Can we run with you? If You serve ``Chair'' in Chikkadpalli Sell ``pallies'' in cinema hall Polish boots in Kothi Circle Stop a Maruti or Priya on the Tankbund To demand agitation fund Well Media persons are `merit' creatures Their camera hearts `click' Their pens shriek, ``Youthful brilliance''! We are drab faced duds Sitting in the stink of dead animals We make shoes By applying color with our blood And polishing them With the sinking light of our eyes However, Isn't the shine different When polished By someone in boots? We clean up your filth Carry the night soil on our heads We wear out our bodies Washing your rooms To make them sparkle Like your scented bodies We sweep, we clean; our hands are brooms Our sweat is water Our blood is the phenyl Our bones are washing powder But all this Is menial labor What merit it has? What skill? Tucked-in shirts and miniskirts Jeans and high heels If you sweep The cement road with a smile It becomes an Akashvani scoop And spellbinding Doordharshan spectacle We are Rickshaw pullers Porters and cart wheelers Petty shopkeepers And low grade clerks We are Desolate mothers Who can give no milk To the child who bites with hunger We stand in hospital queues To sell blood to buy food Except For the smell of poverty and hunger How can it acquire The patriotic flavor Of your blood donation? Whatever you do Sweep, polish Carry luggage in railway station Or in bus stand Vend fruits on pushcart Sell chai on footpath Take out procession With `Save merit' placards And convent pronunciations We know It is to show us that Our labor of myriad professions Is no match to your merit White coats and black badges Hanging over chiffon saris and Punjabi dresses `Save merit' stickers On breasts carrying `steth's (stethoscopes) When you walk(ed) in front of daftar Like a heaven in flutter For EBCs among you And those who crossed 12000 among us The reservation G.O. Is not only a dream shattered and heaven shaken But also a rainbow broken Yours Is movement for justice On the earthly heaven That is why `Devathas' dared more for the amrit The moment You gave a call for `jail bharao' In the press conference We were shifted out From barracks To rotting dungeons Great welcome was prepared Red carpet was spread (`Red' only in idiom; the color scares even those who spread it.) We waited with fond hope that The pious dust of your feet Would grace not only the country But its jails, too How foolish! The meritorious cream The future Of country's glorious dream How can they come To the hell of thieves, Murderers and subversives? We read and rejoice That function halls Where rich marriages are celebrated Became your jails Ours may be a lifelong struggle till death But yours is a happy wedding party of the wealth If you show displeasure It is like a marriage tiff If you burn furniture It is pyrotechnical stuff If you observe `bandh' It is the landlord's daughter's marriage Lucky The corpse of your merit Parades through the main streets Has its funeral in `chourastas' Amidst chanting of holy `mantras' But Merit has no death So You creatively conduct symbolic procession And enact the mourning `prahasan' In us To die or to be killed There is no merit We die With hunger, or disease, Doing hard labor, or committing crime, In lock up or encounter (Meritorious will not agree inequality is violence) We will be thrown By a roadside; In a filthy pit; On a dust heap; In a dark forest We will turn ash Without a trace We will `miss' From a
[Goanet] Re: Of Goans, Indians and foreigners's racism and reverse-racism
Subject: [Goanet] Goanet Reader: Of Goans, Indians and foreigners: Goa's racism and reverse-racism That was a very thoughtful and interesting article, though one may not agree with all its viewpoints. There is a crying need for just such a rational debate on this whole issue. -- Question everything -- Karl Marx _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] State govt orders inquiry into Sanvordem riots
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Herald, 16/05/06 State govt orders inquiry into Sanvordem riots BY HERALD REPORTER PANJIM, MAY 15 — Nearly two months after the Sanvordem-Curchorem riots, the State government has ordered a magisterial inquiry. The inquiry will be conducted by the North Goa District Magistrate and Collector Nikhil Kumar, IAS and the inquiry report has to be submitted to the government within a period of one month. The State home department with very comprehensive terms of reference directing the district magistrate to undertake an inquiry into the entire episode of riots at Guddemol-Sanvordem where damage was done to people and property issued an order to this effect today. Besides ascertaining the facts in the incident, the inquiry would also examine the extent of property lost, injuries caused and above all the sequence of events that led to the riots. The inquiry will also have to suggest appropriate course of action against persons responsible and to ascertain whether there has been any lapse in discharge of duties by government officers involved in the incident and fix the responsibility, if any. The terms of reference also includes suggestions of remedial measures to prevent re-occurrence of such incidents in future. Kumar who received the orders today said that he would begin the inquiry immediately and issue a notice for the public at large to come forward and report to the magistrate on the riots. It is learnt that the Citizens’ Initiative for Communal Harmony, which was formed after the outbreak of the riots had in the last week of April submitted a representation to the government demanding for an inquiry into the March 2006 riots. The initiative had also served a 15 days ultimatum for an inquiry and a report on the same. The co-conveners of the group Albertina Almeida and Ramesh Gauns said that it would have appreciated an independent inquiry. The President of Federation of Muslim Jamaaps and Association, M K Shaik, has welcomed the magisterial inquiry into the riots and demanded immediate settlement of the compensation claims pending with the South Goa collectorate. The Opposition leader Manohar Parrikar reacting to the same, said, “A magisterial inquiry after two months has no meaning.” Parrikar said an inquiry into the incident should have come soon after the incident and termed the present exercise as “too late.” He feared that the inquiry officer being a government servant could be influenced. -- Question everything -- Karl Marx _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] PLEASE SIGN PETITION DEMANDING INQUIRY COMMITTEE INTO SANVORDEM VIOLENCE
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- Despite repeated demands, there has been no action by the government to set up an inquiry committee into the violence at Sanvordem and bring the perpetrators to book. The government will respond only when there is a concerted demand from citizens to do so. There is an online petition on the subject at: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/goasan06/petition.html Please go to the URL and sign the petition. Circulate this widely and request people to sign. -- Question everything -- Karl Marx _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Punishing Curchorem Culprits More Important
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part III) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- Editorial, Gomantak Times, 10/04/06 Punishing Curchorem Culprits More Important After the Rane government was caught in a bad light in its handling of the Curchorem riots, it should at least have made up for its passivity and tried to find out the truth behind the unprecedented communal violence. While the perpetrators in the ghastly saga had the temerity to haul the government over the coals for its ineffectiveness, Chief Minister Pratapsing Rane did announce a magisterial inquiry to probe the incidents but nothing has been heard of after the announcement. This leaves one to wonder whether it will take some months more -- as was the case of the inquiry into IFFI 2004 -- for the government to appoint somebody to investigate the violence which followed the March 2 demolition of a mosque in Sanvordem. While the government has been painfully slow in following up the matter, a non-governmental organisation like All-India Milli Council (AIMC) tried to fill the gap by conducting its own investigation, though some like Leader of Opposition, Manohar Parrikar, have assailed the report it prepared after the probe as being one-sided. The BJP had also announced a panel to inquire into the violence but many know what to expect from it. Another probe is being conducted by some Goa-based NGOs. The four-member AIMC panel headed by Supreme Court human rights lawyer Nandita Haksar has concluded that the demolition of the mosque at Guddemol, Sanvordem, and the resultant violence in Curchorem and other areas was part of a well-planned strategy by political forces to communalise Goan society. It has also alluded to the BJP's dubious role in the whole affair. Reacting to the AIMC findings, Parrikar has complained that the panel did not approach him at all. Indeed the panel may be faulted for not providing Parrikar an opportunity to have his say in certain matters referred to by the AIMC. Parrikar has also demanded that Haksar and her panel members be booked under Section 153A of the CrPC for inciting communities to clash against each other. If Haksar and her panel is guilty of doing so, what did Parrikar and other BJP leaders do to stop the outbreak of violence in Curchorem? If he were so concerned about communal peace in Curchorem, he would have vehemently condemned the violence that rocked Curchorem and marred Goa's popular image as a place of harmonious co-existence. But if one pours over his statements after Curchorem riots, it is clear that he was more concerned about other issues like the legal status of the religious structure. The government may bring out a white paper on the issue -- that may sound good for the record -- but inquiry panels have hardly been successful in achieving the objective. It would serve the purpose of justice better if the perpetrators of the violence are put behind bars and the government makes sure it happens. --- GT, 10/04/06/ p.3 'Constitute independent fact-finding committee' Welcoming the fact-finding report released by the All-India Milli Council on the communal violence in Sanvordem, the Forum for Communal Harmony has demanded that the government constitute an independent fact-finding committee into the Sanvordem violence, present a white paper identifying those responsible and take firm action to bring the perpetrators to book. In a joint statement, Ramesh Gauns and Vidyadhar Gadgil said that for the past month, citizens of Goa have been demanding that the government constitute an independent enquiry committee into the events at Sanvordem and present a white paper so that the people can know the facts. But the government has failed to take action in this matter. They said that it is heartening that a civil society organisation has stepped in with exemplary courage to fill the breach. But this does not absolve the government of its responsibility to enquire into the incidents and place the truth before the people. According to them, the fact-finding report has revealed a number of shocking facts about the violence in Sanvordem. The report has confirmed what many citizens have felt to be the case, viz., the violence was a result of a systematic communal mobilisation that has been taking place in Goa, and which has completely vitiated Goa’s tradition of communal harmony. The denial of basic human rights of the Muslim community and the kind of hate speech being propagated by communal forces are deplorable and need to be unequivocally condemned. Instead of addressing the substantive issues raised in the report, the Sangh Parivar have resorted to their usual attempts
[Goanet] Fact-finding committee report on Sanvordem violence
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part II) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- The fact-finding committee report is available on-line at a temporary URL. PDF version (with annexures): http://mum1ww1-a.sancharnet.in:83/vgad/brpeace.pdf Plain-text version (without annexures) http://mum1ww1-a.sancharnet.in:83/vgad/brokenpeacerep -- Question everything -- Karl Marx _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Fact-finding committee report on Sanvordem violence
-- Domnic Fernandes continues (Part II) his reminiscence of Mapusa of the 1950s http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsamp;file=articleamp;sid=426 -- A mix of reports from today's press about the Milli Council fact-finding committee reports on Sanvordem violence. newkerala.com has some interesting takes on the BJP reaction, Navhind Times (this item not included) gives Parrikar's views that the members of the committee are psychologically disturbed! Herald, 7/4/06 Riots were politically planned: report BY HERALD REPORTER PANJIM, APRIL 6 — The All India Milli Council (AIMC) today released a “fact finding report” on the violence at Curchorem-Savordem which mentions that “the attack on the Guddemol mosque on the night of March 2-3 and the violence against the Muslim community living in Curchorem, Savordem and Guddemol, was part of a well planned strategy by political forces to communalise Goan society.” The AIMC appointed a 4 member team headed by SC human rights lawyer, Nandita Haksar to investigate into the violence. Addressing a press conference in the city Haksar said that the report “was to try to probe the root causes of communal violence.” The report covers the rise of communal politics in Goa, human rights violations of Muslims in Goa, the mosques at Socorro and Ekta Nagar, Mapusa. With reference to the speeches made by the BJP party members, the report mentions “that the BJP members including the ex-CM Manohar Parrikar and the local MLA Ramrao Desai continue to spread the disinformation not only about the actual incident but about Muslims in general. They are fuelling hatred and anger against the Muslims by telling blatant lies, spreading false rumours and making defamatory statements.” Referring to Parrikar’s speech on March 4, 2006, it mentions that “the former CM did not attempt to console the Muslims and his speech sent out the message that people responsible for the violence are the victims themselves.” On the role of the administration during the violence, Haksar and her team mentioned that “the civil administration has not acted with the responsibility that is expected of them. It is true that the police did offer protection to Muslims gathered inside the Curchorem mosque when the violence started. However they failed to protect the property of the Muslims.” Further, the report mentions that “the Congress party has no programme for countering the communalism and many of its MLAs and members are former members of the BJP. ” Haksar and her team have recommended that “the government must bring out a white paper telling the people the truth about the communal violence in Savordem-Curchorem.” Further “the government must have a programme against communalism and initiate a public debate on the issue of outsiders.” The other recommendations are that “the Muslims of Guddemol must be allowed to offer namaz which has been stopped by the local police and must be provided with land (which they will purchase) to build a mosque so that they can exercise their right to freedom of religion.” The recommendations have been submitted to the AIMC which will submit it to the government, Haksar said. The team appointed include editor of Lankesh Times Kannada weekly Bangalore, Gauri Lankesh, radio journalist, New Delhi, Vinod K Jose, and editor of Guide magazine, Bangalore, Bilidale Eesha. Also present was Iqbal Mohidin, member of the AIMC, Goa State. Navhind Times, 7/4/06 Bring white paper on Sanvordem riots, says Milli Council NT Staff Reporter Panaji, April 6: The All India Milli Council has demanded that the government of Goa must bring out a white paper telling the people the truth about the communal violence in the twin towns of Sanvordem and Curchorem. Attributing the violence to the rise of the “communal politics”, the report titled “Broken Peace” prepared by the fact finding team set up the council underlined that “the attack on Guddemol mosque” on the night of March 2/3 and the violence against the Muslim community living in Curchorem, Sanvordem and the hamlet of Guddemol was a part of well-planned strategy by political forces to communalise Goan society. The report which was released today by a member of the fact-finding team, Ms Nandita Haksar urged the state government to create the atmosphere for the Muslims in Goa to feel secure and name the real culprits, allow the Muslims of Guddemol to offer ‘namaz’ which has been stopped by the local police and provide land to the Muslims in Guddemol, which they would have to purchase, for building a mosque so that they can exercise their right to freedom of religion. Ms Haksar along with the other team members told reporters in the city today that the particular communal riot was
[Goanet] Re: What's happening to Goanet?
On Sat, 2006-03-25 at 12:59 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Clinton Vaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] What's happening to Goanet? Enough of this nonsense. The past few months have seen Goanet discussions degenerate into mindless nonsense, name calling and foul language. I'm missing the old Goanet and I don't want to read posts like this that make no sense at all. Yeah, this is really getting to be too much. About 75% of Goanet nowadays is unreadable. At the risk of being called authoritarian, the moderators need to step in and take strong action, else people will be unsubscribing in droves, I'm sure many have already done so. perhaps it's time to unsubscribe. After some time, one figures out which posts to avoid, and which to read. Instead of unsubscribing, you can try what I do every once in a while, when the name-calling, foul language and rubbish gets to be too much. When you subscribed you will have received a mail from Goanet. Go to the appropriate URL there, which is http://www.goanet.org/mailman/options/goanet/ followed by the email address you have subscribed on. Log in using the password that is given in that mail, and put mail delivery off. Wait for a few months, go back there, put mail delivery on, and see if sanity has returned. If not, follow the same procedure again. -- Question everything -- Karl Marx _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: %(user_optionsurl)s This email sent to %(user_address)s
[Goanet] Re: Domnic Fernandes' articles and upcoming book
On Sat, 2006-03-25 at 08:58 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Cecil Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] Domnic Fernandes' articles and upcoming book Over the years hundreds of people have been asking Domnic to compile all his articles into a book. Domnic and myself have had discussions on the feasibility of publishing such a book and have decided to go ahead. The exact content and format of the book, price, distribution, marketing etc etc has to be fine tuned - but the book is definitely on. Way to go! We're all looking forward to it. One thing, though, you need not be so worried about plagirism on the net. Even if all the articles are available on the net, very few people read long books on the net. Anybody who wants to just has to do a search through the Goanet archives, and copy all Domnic's articles, but it's really a pain to read on-screen. A well-produced book will always sell irrespective of whether the same stuff is available on the net or not. -- Question everything -- Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: TAP DANCE!
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 22:02 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: domnic fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] TAP DANCE! To: goanet@goanet.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Wonder when Domnic is going to compile all his pieces as a book. Whenever that is, book me for a copy. Seriously, his stuff provides the most fascinating insights into the Goan past -- and present too. If he isn't going to do a book, maybe the Goanet administration could compile all his pieces into one text file for circulation? Book me for an advance copy of that too. -- Question everything -- Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: Konkani Press and communalism
Without getting into this debate between Miguel and Sandesh, some points do need to be made. Sandesh's secular credentials are undoubted, his track record speaks for itself, and all who know him would agree with this. That said, giving a regular weekly column to Subhash Velingkar is scandalous. Why is this done? But my intention, while taking over as Sunaparant editor in January 2003, was to create a platform for all the ideologies and thoughts, no matter whether i personally believe in it or not. Now Osama bin Laden need not confine his thoughts to the internet, maybe Lashkar-e-Toiba can print their ideological outpouring here? OK, if that's an extreme example, there are plenty of analogies. Is there a single respectable national newspaper that gives a regular column to Praveen Togadia or Ashok Singhal or their likes, or to a Muslim/Christian fundamentalist? Till date, we have not published any article by Velingkar, which could go against the press ethics. This is a normal practice followed even by leading national dailies. Publishing such articles does not make the newspaper communal. Yes, they do cover their speeches and remarks, that is the job of the press, but giving a weekly column to a RSS ideologue to hold forth with his poison is over the limit. Let them write in their party/organisational mouthpieces like Organiser. Why give them respectability outside these organs. My intention behind asking Mr Velingkar to write for us that people also know the RSS viewpoint on several issues. The RSS is a known anti-national body, which has repeatedly stated that it does not have any respect for the Indian constitution, which has enshrined India as a 'secular, democratic, socialist republic'. The RSS on the other hand is on a Hindu Rashtra trip. Its best-known ideologue, Golwalkar (whose centenary the RSS is celebrating with great fanfare this year), has stated (I paraphrase): Minorities living in India have to accept the Hindu way of life, or else live in this country as second- class citizens, without even basic rights. These are the people you want to give a weekly column to? Get real, Sandesh. Or should we look forward to reading a regular weekly column by Ayman Al-Zawahiri and another by Pat Robertson in Sunaparant -- so as to have what you describe as a 'healthy debate'?
[Goanet] Re: Where is Goa heading?
Unless we act soon and present a united front against communal forces, we seem to be heading towards becoming another Gujarat I couldn't agree more with Sandeep. A few of his points seem to need some clarification though. On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 20:51 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: sandeep heble [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] Where is Goa heading? The role played by Mr. Parrikar and other BJP leaders in this shameful episode was shocking nay depressing. Instead of articulating the voice of sense and reason, in the typical BJP fashion, ??? Can the leopard change its spots, as Sujay Gupta has asked? The BJP articulating the 'voice of reason and sense'? Let us not be naive. Or have we forgotten the Babri Masjid demolition, Gujarat and many other incidents, and the pearls of wisdom from the likes of Golwalkar, Sudarshan, Advani, Modi, Togadia, Singhal, Acharya Dharmendra, and, of course, Subhash Velingkar (for his stuff, see the past few months of Thursday issues of Sunaparant, which in its infinite wisdom sees fit to give him column space. Why can't he write in Organiser, the RSS mouthpiece, must our mainstream press entertain him?) Let us recognise them for what they really are. Are we moving away from a liberal democratic society to a bizarre fascist society? Are the changes of the demographic patterns reasons for the sad state of affairs? Could some sane voices care to answer these questions? Presumably these are rhetorical questions. The answers are there for us all to see. -- Question everything -- Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: Protestors attack Goa police station; calls demolition a sacrilege
On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 11:03 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 7 From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] Protestors attack Goa police station; calls demolition a sacrilege http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnewsid=20597 Protestors attack Goa police station; calls demolition a sacrilege Panaji: An irate mob attacked north Goa's Curchorem police station demanding the release of people arrested who obstructed the demolition of a sacred place on Friday, following which the police today burst teargas shells and even resorted to lathicharge to control the mob. This seems to be a deliberately mischevious report from this newkerala website. The implication is clear, that those who rioted were those protesting the demolition, i.e. the 'minority community'. The facts of the case are quite different, it was the 'majority community' that attacked without provocation, instigated, aided and abetted by the usual suspects who are to be seen in photographs in the major newspapers wandering around with Cheshire cat grins on their faces, pleased at the chaos they have created. It gets worse: The trouble sparked on March 1, when a minority group obtaining stay from the Directorate of Panchayats against the orders of Guddamol village panchayat for demolition of the sacred structure, considered illegal. In rage the protesters indulged in stone pelting, clashed with police, damaged vehicles and shops, besides resorting to arson and plunder on Friday forcing the police to burst teargas shells and lathicharge, besides imposing prohibitory orders since Friday evening. Who rioted? This is really adding insult to injury. We can expect more such misinformation as attempts are made to obfuscate the truth. Today, in the Navhind Times we have Nandkumar Kamat waxing eloquent about issues like 'jawabi talaq', 'Al Qaeda' 'fundamentalist Sunni Islam', etc. all of which do not appear to have any relevance in this case, where a helpless, peaceful minority was attacked. Talk about red herrings! -- Question everything -- Karl Marx
[Goanet] Christmas Greetings: Christ and Gandhi
-- || |Goanetters annual meet in Goa is scheduled for Dec 27, 2005 @ 4pm | || |The Riviera Opposite Hotel Mandovi, Panjim (near Ferry Jetty/Riverfront)| | Attending...drop a line to [EMAIL PROTECTED]| -- Peace on Earth Means No More War by John Dear John Dear is a Jesuit priest, peace activist, and the author/editor of 20 books on peace and nonviolence, including most recently The Questions of Jesus and Living Peace, both published by Doubleday. He is the coordinator of Pax Christi New Mexico. For information, see: www.fatherjohndear.org and www.paxchristinewmexico.org Published on Saturday, December 24, 2005 by CommonDreams.org http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1224-21.htm The story goes that when the nonviolent Jesus was born into abject poverty to homeless refugees on the outskirts of a brutal empire, angels appeared in the sky to impoverished shepherds singing, Glory to God in the highest and peace on earth! That child grew up to become, in Gandhi's words, the greatest nonviolent resister in the history of the world, and was subsequently executed by the empire for his insistence on justice. This weekend, as tens of millions of Christians across the country celebrate the birth of the Prince of Peace, the U.S. wages war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia and elsewhere; crushes the hungry, homeless, elderly, imprisoned and refugee; and maintains the world's ultimate terrorist threat--its nuclear arsenal. Like Herod, Pilate and their soldiers, we have rejected the angels' call for peace on earth. When Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and their warmaking supporters celebrate Christmas, they mock Christ and his steadfast nonviolence, and carry on the massacre of the innocents. If the angels are correct, then Christmas requires us to welcome God's gift of peace on earth. In such a time, that means we have to work for an end to war. Christmas calls us to become like Christ--people of active, creative, steadfast nonviolence who give our lives in resistance to empire and war. In pursuit of this Christmas gift, a group of us met this week with Bill Richardson, the Governor of New Mexico, and asked him to dismantle our nuclear weapons and disarm Los Alamos, the birthplace of the bomb. In this day and age, it is surprising that any elected official would meet and listen to anti-war activists. Yet Richardson asked to begin a public dialogue with us about nuclear disarmament. We take this as a sign of hope, even as we continue our protests at Los Alamos. When Gandhi was asked one Christmas day for his thoughts about Christmas, he spoke about the connection between the wood of the crib--Christ's poverty--and the wood of the cross--Christ's nonviolent resistance to evil. He said Christmas summons us to the same lifelong nonviolence. It has social, economic, and political implications. I think, like Gandhi, that we have to make those connections and pursue those implications. Here are a few of them. First, Christmas celebrates the birth of a life of perfect nonviolence and calls us to become people of active nonviolence. Christmas invites us to practice the vulnerable, disarming simplicity of children, to live the disarmed life in solidarity with the children of the world, and to spend our lives in resistance to empire. It summons us to study, teach, practice and experiment with creative nonviolence that we too might live the life of nonviolence which Jesus exemplified so that one day peace might reign one earth. Second, Christmas demonstrates that God sides with the poor, becomes one with the poor, and walks among the poor. God does not side with the rulers, the rich or the powerful, but with the homeless, the hungry and the refugees. Christmas puts poverty front and center and demands that we work to abolish poverty itself so that every human being has food, clothing, housing, healthcare, education, employment and a lifetime of peace. Third, since Christmas illustrates how God sides with the poor in order to liberate the oppressed from poverty and injustice, it calls us to reject greed, give away our money and possessions to those in need, and also live in solidarity with the disenfranchised. Fourth, Christmas pushes us to stand on the margins of society, where we will find God. Christmas announces that every human being is a beloved son and daughter of the God of love. Every human life is beautiful in the eyes of God, since God has become one of us. From now on, we reject exclusivity, racism, sexism, and discrimination of any kind, and embrace everyone as equal. We stand on the margins with the excluded, the marginalized, the outsiders and outcasts. From there, we envision a new reconciled humanity.
[Goanet] Re: Irrelevant topics, and Goans and African Americans
-- | Add your name to the CLEAN GOA INITIATIVE | || | by visiting this link and following the instructions therein | || | http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2005-October/033926.html | -- On Sat, 2005-11-05 at 02:19 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is Islam being denigrated here with this derogatory association of Mecca with socialism and the ghettos? Ghettosm, yes, that's an unfortunate association. But associating it with socialism is clearly a compliment to Mecca, however unintended! Cheers, Santosh -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet] SHINING INDIA'S SWANKY NEW SWEATSHOPS
-- | Add your name to the CLEAN GOA INITIATIVE | || | by visiting this link and following the instructions therein | || | http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2005-October/033926.html | -- Given that there seems to be considerable euphoria about BPOs arriving in Goa (one is apparently opening in Margao), this study of their labour practices is an eye-opener. Is it any wonder that our unions are demanding that the employees be given the right to struggle for better conditions, and that employers are resisting this move. And our own government in Goa wants to give these throwbacks to 19th-century slaveowners a legal holiday! HindustanTimes.com October 24, 2005 SHINING INDIA'S SWANKY NEW SWEATSHOPS Dinesh C. Sharma New Delhi, October 24, 2005 Call centres housed in swanky glass towers may represent the new face of 21st-century India, but the labour practices they follow belong to the 19th century. Though business process outsourcing (BPO) companies are projected as promoters of innovation, flexibility and freedom at workplace, they are actually quite inflexible, eroding even basic rights at work. This is the finding of the first major study of labour practices in Indian call centres. The BPO industry in India currently employs 350,000 workers, according to the trade body Nasscom. Superior work environment, the use of latest technologies, higher salaries compared to the manufacturing sector, fancy designations, smart and young peer workers - all these make young employees believe that the job they are doing is of an executive or a professional in a multinational-like environment. But the organisational structure of call centres is basically 'dualistic' - consisting of a core or permanent set of employees and 'periphery' or non-permanent workers. All call-centre agents are periphery workers, who are easily substitutable, while team leaders and managers make up the core group. This is similar to the popular model of work organisations followed in 1980s, the study done by the V.V. Giri National Institute of Labour pointed out. The institute is an autonomous body working under the Labour Ministry. The dualistic workforce model allows firms to regulate the workforce and nip in the bud any signs of collectivism. The labour practices call centres follow are even much older. Take, for instance, the monitoring of workers at the workplace. Work is monitored on the spot and after working hours with the help of specially designed software, computer network and closed circuit cameras, the study says. The degree of surveillance required at work is even comparable with the situations of 19th century prisons or Roman slave ships. In addition, all interactions among employees in office are continuously recorded or taped, and randomly checked by the team leader or manager. Mistakes in work lead to immediate warnings and they are recorded in 'warning cards' that form part of the daily ratings of agents. If an employee commits three errors in a day, he or she is warned and gets zero in his or her daily rating. Three consecutive zeros lead to counselling or even dismissal. Availing oneself of leave without prior notice or consent is treated as unauthorised absence - sufficient reason for termination. During the course of the survey, half a dozen cases of termination due to unauthorised absence were recorded. Even if an employee is sick, it is mandatory to get the consent of the team leaders at least four to six hours before the shift, failing which the leave is considered unscheduled. Human-resource managers play a key role in call centres. Their task is camouflaging work as fun, detaching workplace feeling from employees and giving them opportunities to air grievances with least damage to the company, the study noted. The HR departments undertake activities such as organizing parties, recreation activities and designing workspaces. All this gives employees a superficial sense of 'empowerment'. But the actual task of HR managers is to define and enforce roles for separate categories of employees, and define dos and don'ts for them. Yet another example of giving employees a sense of 'illusionary freedom and flexibility' is the number of codes of conduct, which are actually meant to be violated than complied with. For instance, BPO firms insist on a dress code on paper but allow employees to wear clothes of their choice. This is a strategy to make workers happy at no additional cost, the study said. HR departments strive to ensure that creativity and productivity of the workers are effectively tapped to strike a 'right' balance
[Goanet] Employment laws in IT industry
-- | Add your name to the CLEAN GOA INITIATIVE | || | by visiting this link and following the instructions therein | || | http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2005-October/033926.html | -- Apropos of the discussion on Goanet in response to the shocking news that the Goa government is proposing to give the IT industry a 'legal holiday' if they come to Goa, this may be of some use: People's Democracy: (Weekly Organ of the Communist Party of India (Marxist): Vol. XXIX, No. 42, October 16, 2005 CITU Demands Implementation Of Labour Laws In IT Sector M K Pandhe, president, Centre of Indian Trade Unions (CITU) has written the following letter to K M Sahni, secretary to the government of India, ministry of labour and employment on October 12 regarding the blatant violation of labour laws in Information Technology Enabled Services sector (ITES), urging the government to initiate appropriate steps to protect the interests of ITES workers. THE Information Technology Enabled Services sector is spreading in India fast, and over five lakh workers and technicians are employed in it. We welcome the development of this sector as it is providing gainful employment to educated persons in India. Several centres in India have developed a large number of call centres and consultancy offices, which are earning enormous profits. Their number is likely to swell very fast in the near future. Though formally ITES sector is covered by the labour laws of the land, in practice we find that the labour laws are being violated in a most blatant manner. We have received several complaints from the employees in this sector, some of which are given below: 1.. The employees are working 12 hours a day without getting any overtime payment. 2.. In many call centres/BPO establishments, employees are forced to work only in night-shifts, in contravention of ILO convention on frequency of night shift and compensatory allowance for doing night duty. 3. There is no grievance redressal machinery and any employee working in the industry face summary dismissal if one tries to raise any complaint about working conditions. 4.. Several undertakings do not give even the appointment letter to the employees so that they can be dismissed from service without even giving notice. 5.. Any attempt to form a union or association by the employees is penalised by summary dismissal. 6.. Several cases of sexual harassment and molestation of women employees have occurred but the women complainants are asked not to resume duties from the next day. This creates a situation where women employees are faced with humiliating working conditions while the culprits are rarely punished. The occurrences are more frequent when women work in the night shift. 7.. There are no rules to govern the working conditions, and occupation hazards have occurred in several cases without any remedy for redressal. 8.. Remunerations are arbitrarily fixed with consolidated wages and there is no social security or job security for the employees. 9.. Compared to the profits earned by the undertakings, the salary level is extremely low causing discontentment among the employees but they cannot raise any dispute for fear of losing jobs. 10. Maternity benefit is denied to women employees. Creche facilities are absent causing hardships to mothers with young children. We are drawing your attention to the complaints we have received from employees working in the ITES sector. There may be other complaints from the employees. No dispute is being raised by the employees with the industrial relations machinery in India, as any attempt to do so will result in arbitrary dismissal. The state governments are not taking any steps to ensure implementation of labour laws since they feel that it would result in such centres shifting to other states. On the contrary, there is a tendency to compete in giving concessions to this sector to attract more investment. However, there is urgent need to protect the interest of the employees in this sector so that this industry does not become a source of sophisticated indentured labour in our country. If this situation is allowed to continue, other industries will also follow suit making a mockery of all labour legislations in the country. We would, therefore. earnestly request you to look into the matter and take suitable steps so that this sector is prevailed upon to respect labour laws in the country and create proper working and living conditions for the employees working in this industry. Since the phenomenon is occurring in centres all over India and many establishments in this sector are multi-state entities, the union labour
[Goanet] Re: Musings on crossing a hundred....
On Sat, 2005-10-01 at 22:44 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Musings on crossing a hundred For his September 9, 2005 birthday, he had the company of his children and grandchildren from Geneva, Switzerland, Perth and Montreal and Toronto. Now, doesn't that say something about Goan migration? ...and doesn't it make all the talk one hears from 'true Goans' about 'outsiders' sound completely hilarious? -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: A lawless IT industry?
On Wed, 2005-09-28 at 21:45 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A lawless IT industry? Rane said the policy proposed to exempt IT entrepreneurs from the purview of several labour and factory laws like the Goa Pollution Control Act, Factories Act, Maternity Benefits Act, Control Labour Regulation and Abolition Act, Payment of Wages Act, Minimum Wages Act, the Goa Daman and Diu Shops and Establishment Act. Can they do this? Do away with basic protection to employees? Some of the above acts are central acts, how can the Goa government suspend them. Many of these legislations are the result of years of struggle by the labour force, and any attempts to dilute them must be resisted. Of course, Rane is in august company with Manmohan Singh and P. Chidambaram (IMF pensioners both, a clear conflict of interest!), all bending over to serve the super-rich. The Left has made an excellent show of strength today (29th September), paralysing the country in protest against the government's anti-people economic policies. But the Left needs to get its act together, and force the government to respect its mandate (all analysts agree that the UPA government came to power on the strength of the votes of the poor), even withdrawing support if necessary. And in Goa we need a massive protest to ensure that such ridiculous actions are not taken by the government. He said the exemption was aimed at providing them with incentives so that Goa could be an IT hub. -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: D.D. Kosambi
On Sun, 2005-09-18 at 14:08 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Fr. Nascimento Mascarenhas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] Re: Damodar Dharmananda Kosambi( 1907-1966) I am sending the dates of birth as well as death of Damodar Dharmananda Kosambi( 1907-1966). He was born in Sancoale on 31-VI-1907 and died on 29-VI-1966. Dear Fr. Nascimento, Thanks for this. It is good to have a comprehensive list of DD's books and other publications. In 2002, a commemorative volume was published: D.D. Kosambi: Combined Methods in Indology and Other Writings; compiled, edited and introduced by Brajadulal Chattopadhyaya; Oxford University Press, 2002; pages xxxvii+832; Rs.995. I am adding some biographical notes which I found on the net: Known among professionals for his pioneering mathematical research (his formula for chromosome distance occupies a central place in classical genetics), Damodar Dharmanand Kosambi had developed serious interests in Indology, history, archaeology, anthropology and several other disciplines rather early in his life. He also had an amazing skill in languages. A polyglot, he knew well more than a dozen languages, both Indian and foreign, modern and classical. He died rather young, not quite 60. It is a measure of his intellectual impact that three commemorative volumes were issued within 10 years of his death. As expected, the internet has quite a lot of information on D.D. Kosambi; just google away. Unfortunately, little is available on his father, probably because most of his writings were in Marathi, and few have been translated into English. I am still working on putting together a small biographical sketch based on the Marathi biography I have. -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: Query about dates
Would anyone know (a) the birth and death dates of the famed scholar of Buddhism and Pali language Dharmanand Kosambi of Sancoale (1876-1947) Date of birth: 9 October 1876 Date of death: 24th June 1947 Some of his publications (all in Marathi, please excuse any errors in my transliteration, dates given are dates of publication): Buddha, Dharma ani Sangha: 1910 Buddhalilasarasangraha: 1914 Laghupath: 1917 Nivedan: 1922 Jataka Katha, Bhag 1: 1924 Samadhimarga: 1925 Baudha Sanghacha Parichay: 1926 Hindi Sanskriti ani Ahimsa: ? Parshvanathacha Chaturyam Dharma: 1949 Boddhisattva Natak: 1949 Visuddhimagga (of Buddhaghosa), edited and annotated by Dharmanand Kosambi Translation of 'Sutanipatta' into Marathi: 1937 Etc., etc. Many of his works were translated into Gujarati and Hindi. One of the most highly regarded Pali and Buddhist scholars of India, it is a pity that he is largely forgotten in Goa. Apart from a portrait in Gomant Vidya Niketan, Margao, I have not seen any reference or mention of him. I have an excellent biography of Dharmanand Kosambi (in Marathi); I will have to sit and make notes from it to supply more details. and his historian-son D D Kossambi I cannot believe that there isn't plenty of stuff available about Damodar Dharmanand Kosambi on the internet, so I am not going to wade through the material I have and take notes to post here. He was one of the best-known and respected Marxist historians of the country; his 'An Introduction to the Study of Indian History' is a classic and was a prescribed text in many of the best colleges and universities of our country. His description of history as (I paraphrase) 'a chronological account of changes in the modes and relations of production' is a classic. He was one of the first to point out that 'history has always been made by such backward, ignorant, common people, and that they, not the high priest, glittering autocrat, war-lord, financier, or demagogue, must shape it better in future...' His other books include 'Myth and Reality', 'Exasparating Essays' (this is available for download on the net) and 'Science, Society and Peace'. He actually wrote many of his books in the 'Deccan Queen' between Bombay and Pune; he used to work at the TIFR in Bombay and live in Pune, and used his daily commuting time to great effect! But I am running on, obviously the two Kosambis are among my favourite hobby horses, so I shall now desist. -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet] Inter-Country Adoption racket in Goa?
Looks like the Inter-Country Adoption racket has arrived in Goa. Today's Gomantak Times has some very disturbing articles on a 'children's home' in Carona called Preet Mandir, excerpts from which are posted below. What are they doing with the babies that they obtain? Well, it seems that they have been involved in the Inter-Country Adoption racket under which babies are put up for foreign adoption and donations extorted from prospective parents. See the article from Frontline of 2 months ago on the subject, pasted after the GT articles. This Inter-Country Adoption racket has been flourishing in the country for some time now. Some months ago, a major scandal erupted in Andhra Pradesh, when it was found that many adoption agencies were actively involved in this. CARA has clear guidelines for foreign adoption, which are often flouted. The AP government was forced to ban all Inter-Country Adoptions after the scandal emerged. The Frontline issue (which you can read on the net) is devoted to this matter, and contains a lot of useful information, including an interview with Aloma Lobo, Chairperson of CARA (Central Adoption Resource Agency, you can check out their rules and procedures at cara.nic.in). As citizens, we need to be alert about these things. Looks like Goa is acquiring fame for all the wrong reasons, first, as a destination for paedophiles, then, as a 'fun destination' with various implied joys on offer as portrayed in the infamous Kingfisher Airlines ads., and now as a centre of the Inter-Country Adoption racket. Gomantak Times Weekender, 11 September 2005, Cover Story CRADLE SNATCHERS With a lack of clear guidelines and rules on the functioning of adoption agencies, the process of duping poor illiterate people of their babies in Goa continues. Innocent mothers are made to sign documents that actually surrender their children for adoption while they are made to believe that the baby is just going to a home for care and shelter. Preetu Nair investigates this big baby bloomer and looks into the various rules and loopholes that govern the adoption process. PANAJI: When 17-year-old Nagamma Bedgini, a rag-picker from Baina, decided to take her one-month-old baby to a Children's Home in Goa, she had a dream of a better future. But she never ever bargained for the nightmare that followed. I was told that my child would be looked after well in the home and whenever desired I would visit my child and even stay with her. I signed the papers, though the contents were never read out to me in Kannada (the only language she speaks and understands), neither did I ask them to read out the contents to me, she informed. Why? I never ever in my wildest dream thought that they would make me sign an affidavit stating that I am relinquishing my child and giving her up for adoption, she added. Probabaly, when Nagamma was persuaded by Celsa Antao, President, Desterro Eves Mahila Mandal, to take her one-month-old baby to Preet Mandir, Aldona, on 30 July 2005, she never realised that her madam was actually asking her to sign an affidavit in Marathi stating, ...I am giving in writing that I am handing over my child on 30 July, 2005, to Preet Mandir, Goa. The organisation can give my daughter in the country/outside the country and to any person from any caste, religion who can rehabilitate her...If I don't contact within two months then you have to take this as my legal affidavit in affirmation of which I am signing below. This depite the fact that Preet Mandir, Goa, is not a licenced and recognised agency for adoption as yet. Children's homes are registered under Section 6 of the Goa Children's Act, 2003, is a place which can take in a child for shelter and rehabilitation. But they can't give away kids for adoption. For this the home has to be registered under CARA guidelines. - Officer, Women and Child Welfare Department Gomantak Times/Weekender September 11, 2005, page 4. “I was not allowed to breast-feed my child, she was bitten by an insect”-Nagamma Bedgini Preet Mandir a shelter home in Goa and a supposedly reputed adoption agency in pune, claims that in its actions are above board, but try telling it to a 17-year-old mother whose child was taken away about to be given for adoption without her knowledge. GT-WEEKENDER asks Preet Mandir some questions and carries their replies in full without any editing - Frontline Vol:22 Iss:11 URL: http://www.flonnet.com/fl2211/stories/20050603005701800.htm COVER STORY The adoption nightmare DIONNE BUNSHA in Pune NINA CAPTAIN (name changed) thought that adopting a child would be dream come true. She and her husband never bargained for the nightmare it was. Though the adoption papers had not come through, Nina flew in early from her home in Singapore to Pune, where the adoption home Preet Mandir is
Re: Re: [Goanet] Paes-Navratilova win easy
On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 20:32 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re: [Goanet] Paes-Navratilova win easy Mr/Ms V. Gadgil, who objects to news of Leander Paes' activities, obviously is unaware that Leander Paes is a Goan playing world-class tennis, and as such his successes are of intense interest to Goans such as myself. Best regards, Victor Rangel-Ribeiro Fair enough, news about Paes is okay. But sporting items with no connection to Goa account for a large number of posts (10-20%), and I really wish that they were not made to this list, but to some list on sporting items, to which those interested can subscribe. What are the views of the Goanet admin on this? I think what I am asking for fits in with Goanet's avowed rules, so can we see some action on this? -- Question everything - Karl Marx
Re: [Goanet] Paes-Navratilova win easy
On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 08:54 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: [Goanet] Paes-Navratilova win easy This matter has come up before this on Goanet, without any meaningful action. While all these sports-related articles are doubtless interesting, what do they have to do with Goanet? -- as such they end up merely cluttering our Inboxes. Maybe Goanet could set up a sub-mailing list called 'India-Sports' or something, and such items could be posted there, and those who are interested could subscribe to it. Of course, Eustaquio's efforts are to be appreciated, but they are a good thing in the wrong place, right? -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: Roman script Konkani... in new form
This new Roman script Konkani is bizarre. It really appears like shooting oneself in the foot. Mere phonetics should not drive one to such absurdities; after all, we read and write English accurately enough in Roman script, even though it is far from phonetic. (George Bernard Shaw once suggested that 'fish' be spelt as 'ghoti', with the 'gh' pronounced as in 'rough', the 'o' pronounced as in 'women' and the 'ti' pronounced as in motion!) If one is serious about popularising Roman script Konkani, such stuff should be avoided. Experience with diacritics and unconventional marks is that these things only cause confusion in the minds of the average reader; as such, they are best reserved for academic journals, etc. Look at the way Hindi is written in Roman script (in newspapers, magazines, etc. there are always a few Hindi words nowadays). Nobody who knows Hindi (and can read Roman script) has the slightest difficulty in understanding them. What is wrong with Roman Konkani as it is currently written? I am not a native Konkani speaker, but with some practice have never had any particular difficulty in reading Roman Konkani (though understanding it is more difficult, but then I have that problem with Devanagari Konkani as well). When getting Roman Konkani accepted is such a big struggle in itself, this really seems to be creating an additional unnecessary handicap, like tying heavy weights round one's legs before starting to scale a mountain. -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: Goanet Digest, Vol 1, Issue 2332
On Sun, 2005-08-21 at 23:09 +0530, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is plastic being recycled in Goa even on a small scale? i.e. someone collects the plastic for a fee and then turns around and sells it in bulk to the plastic manufacturers for reuse. I know newspapers used to be sold to a recycler by the kilo and then resold to paper manufacturers. Perhaps it is still being done. It seemed everyone benefitted. Not that I know. When Goa Foundation had its plastic collection drive, frantic efforts were made to get somebody to recycle it, but no luck. They are very choosy, so you have to separate out the varieties of plastic, like the recycler will take only PET bottles. A lot of plastic (most) is unrecyclable, like the plastic carry-bags. All plastic recycling involves downcycling, i.e., the product gets further degraded, and can you imagine a more degraded product than carry-bags :-) This is apart from the environmental damage caused by recycling, which is inevitable with plastic. No, the only thing to do is to legislate it out of existence, or rather, make it rare as it was when we were kids. -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet] Re: Zero-plastic shopping...
On Sat, 2005-08-20 at 00:16 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nobody seems to have noticed a touch of irony when Saligao villagers (and the local panchayat) embark on a 'garbage collection drive' (mainly plastics). The waste from the village is collected and taken to some other (mostly unknown) destination, where it is presumably dumped. This problem was focused on in the 2002 edition of 'Fish Curry and Rice' by Goa Foundation. It was pointed out that dumping is all that happens with these drives, and there really is no solution...except, of course, not to generate the garbage in the first place. So, needless to say, consuming less (or zero, if possible) plastics is the only answer. It means taking a bag with you when you go shopping. A durable bag is available at the market for Rs 12 or so. This viewpoint, like all others, puts the onus largely on the consumer. The only way to tackle this problem meaningfully is to zero in on the producers, and make them responsible for the plastic they produce. The two main offenders are mineral water and carbonated water manufacturers. Why can't legislation be brought in, making them responsible for the rubbish they produce? Since the past two years or so, I have been noticing that it is becoming increasingly difficult to get carbonated drinks in glass bottles, all you get is PET. I have spoken to retailers and they all say they find it more convenient, as they do not have to manage all those glass bottles, collect them back, etc. The consumer, by and large, will always take the easy way out. Often, even when s/he wants to take an environmentally sound choice, there is no choice left, as in the above example. In Goa, we lived without the plastic bag for half our lives. We can surely carry on doing so, so that our children's future isn't clogged with this threat. Goa is the ideal place for change. We have a relatively educated and aware population, which can resist, and has resisted the dumping of garbage from the cities in their village environs. That's why we have this 'problem'. We don't hear of this problem in Mumbai or Delhi, which generate hundreds of times the garbage Panjim does, because they just dump their problems on the neighbouring hapless villages, who suffer in silence. It is plastic that is the biggest problem in garbage. If we continue to resist in Goa, the government will be forced to legislate and implement a law that makes the producer responsible. For example, Pepsi or Bisleri should have to market their products in returnable glass bottles only. The government will act only when forced to, and the resistance of Goa's villagers to having the garbage dumped on them will eventually force it to act. -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet]How the Sangh is controlling Goa?
Herald, Panjim, 24th July 2005 How the Sangh is controlling Goa? BY Nityendra Y Kamat PANJIM, JULY 23 — When BJP’s national secretary Sudheendra Kulkarni, a close aide of now controversy-ridden national President L K Advani, accused the RSS of “micro-managing” the BJP and remote-controlling its leaders, just before he quit the post, little did he realise that he had opened a can of worms throughout the country. The question is: Was the Sangh Parivar really remote-controlling the activities of the BJP? And this question grew in importance in Goa especially after the fall of the Manohar Parrikar government. Yes, in Goa, there is much more to the BJP scenario than what meets the eye. It may appear very Manohar Parrikar-centric but that is wrong. Says writer and social thinker Advocate Uday Bhembre, “Parrikar may have tried to say no to some proposals from the Sangh but apparently there were many in his government who pursued or patronised directly or indirectly (the Sangh agenda).’’ Parrikar might have done a tight-rope walk in the first stint as chief minister with many RSS-initiated decisions remaining camouflaged. However, in the second stint, some things were quite blatant and obvious, analysts say. And it showed how well-entrenched the RSS influence was in the party. BJP is the political wing of the Sangh Parivar while the RSS is the fountainhead of Hindutva. “The relationship between the RSS and the BJP is the same throughout the country and is decided at the top level which gets percolated down to the State level,” says Adv Bhembre. The distinction between the two is that all BJP men/leaders have not come from the RSS. It was quite clear that all the decisions of the RSS may not have been pushed by the BJP government but there were many it couldn’t reject. At times, everyone lapped up certain “good decisions” without knowing what the real intention was. “Their planning is very intelligently done,” said noted social activist and convenor of Lok Shakti, Datta Damodar Naik. They always tried to give an impression that all their decision were in public interest. Working in a very subtle manner in league with Sangh Parivar wings and maintaining secrecy has been an important feature of the BJP working, “especially in the education and socio-cultural sectors,” says Bhembre. How the Sangh is controlling Goa? partly influenced by the RSS. The reason is obvious because it is very rare that the education portfolio is held by the chief minister and that many changes were brought in to suit their interests.’’ The first signs of its saffron colour came to light when Parrikar government in the guise of keeping government offices open for more days, cancelled days certain religious public holidays such as Good Friday, Feast of St Francis Xavier, Gudi Padva, Id, etc. Following the public outcry and media criticism particularly the Herald, besides protests from coalition partners, the decision had to be withdrawn. But whether the decision makers had more concern for the common man or had some other agenda was quite obvious. Fortunately, this vicious plan was not allowed to go through, otherwise, they would have gone ahead with their programmes. According to Datta Naik, “the RSS as an organisation has grown at the grass-root level since the last five years. The massive rally of the RSS which featured then Goa CEO Parrikar in the RSS uniform, on the occassion of Gudi Padva three years ago was an indication of the force of the organization in the State. And it was during this time that affiliate organsiations like Vidhya Bharti (education), Sahakari Bharti (co-operative field), Sanskar Bharti (art culture), Durya Vayni (women’s groups), besides ABVP -- the students wing of the parent body – RSS flourished, which allowed the VHP to grow in Goa thus allowing general secretary Dr Togadia to make alleged inflammatory speech in Panjim. No doubt realising that this programme would not meet every one’s approval, the BJP launched several beautification programmes which attempted to attract the intellectual class to the party. And very few knew that it was being done with a tinge of Hindutva. Thus starts the process of slowly indoctrinating the person with soft-Hindutva, says Naik. -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet]Leading Cardinal Redefines Church's View on Evolution
NY Times July 9, 2005 Leading Cardinal Redefines Church's View on Evolution By CORNELIA DEAN and LAURIE GOODSTEIN An influential cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church, which has long been regarded as an ally of the theory of evolution, is now suggesting that belief in evolution as accepted by science today may be incompatible with Catholic faith. The cardinal, Christoph Schönborn, archbishop of Vienna, a theologian who is close to Pope Benedict XVI, staked out his position in an Op-Ed article in The New York Times on Thursday, writing, Evolution in the sense of common ancestry might be true, but evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense - an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection - is not. In a telephone interview from a monastery in Austria, where he was on retreat, the cardinal said that his essay had not been approved by the Vatican, but that two or three weeks before Pope Benedict XVI's election in April, he spoke with the pope, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, about the church's position on evolution. I said I would like to have a more explicit statement about that, and he encouraged me to go on, said Cardinal Schönborn. He said that he had been angry for years about writers and theologians, many Catholics, who he said had misrepresented the church's position as endorsing the idea of evolution as a random process. Opponents of Darwinian evolution said they were gratified by Cardinal Schönborn's essay. But scientists and science teachers reacted with confusion, dismay and even anger. Some said they feared the cardinal's sentiments would cause religious scientists to question their faiths. Cardinal Schönborn, who is on the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education, said the office had no plans to issue new guidance to teachers in Catholic schools on evolution. But he said he believed students in Catholic schools, and all schools, should be taught that evolution is just one of many theories. Many Catholic schools teach Darwinian evolution, in which accidental mutation and natural selection of the fittest organisms drive the history of life, as part of their science curriculum. Darwinian evolution is the foundation of modern biology. While researchers may debate details of how the mechanism of evolution plays out, there is no credible scientific challenge to the underlying theory. American Catholics and conservative evangelical Christians have been a potent united front in opposing abortion, stem cell research and euthanasia, but had parted company on the death penalty and the teaching of evolution. Cardinal Schönborn's essay and comments are an indication that the church may now enter the debate over evolution more forcefully on the side of those who oppose the teaching of evolution alone. One of the strongest advocates of teaching alternatives to evolution is the Discovery Institute in Seattle, which promotes the idea, termed intelligent design, that the variety and complexity of life on earth cannot be explained except through the intervention of a designer of some sort. Mark Ryland, a vice president of the institute, said in an interview that he had urged the cardinal to write the essay. Both Mr. Ryland and Cardinal Schönborn said that an essay in May in The Times about the compatibility of religion and evolutionary theory by Lawrence M. Krauss, a physicist at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, suggested to them that it was time to clarify the church's position on evolution. The cardinal's essay was submitted to The Times by a Virginia public relations firm, Creative Response Concepts, which also represents the Discovery Institute. Mr. Ryland, who said he knew the cardinal through the International Theological Institute in Gaming, Austria, where he is chancellor and Mr. Ryland is on the board, said supporters of intelligent design were very excited that a church leader had taken a position opposing Darwinian evolution. It clarified that in some sense the Catholics aren't fine with it, he said. Bruce Chapman, the institute's president, said the cardinal's essay helps blunt the claims that the church has spoken on Darwinian evolution in a way that's supportive. But some biologists and others said they read the essay as abandoning longstanding church support for evolutionary biology. How did the Discovery Institute talking points wind up in Vienna? wondered Glenn Branch, deputy director of the National Center for Science Education, which advocates the teaching of evolution. It really did look quite a bit as if Cardinal Schönborn had been reading their Web pages. Mr. Ryland said the cardinal was well versed on these issues and had written the essay on his own. Dr. Francis Collins, who headed the official American effort to decipher the human genome, and who describes himself as a Christian, though not a Catholic, said Cardinal Schönborn's essay looked like a step in the wrong direction and said he feared that it may
[Goanet]Anti-smoking fascism
Anti-smoking fascism There seems to be a wilful blindness among our citizens regarding the government proposal to ban images of smoking in film. Rather than condemning the step, theyt cheer our would-be censors on. The state in India has taken upon itself the role of the arbiter of public morality, and is intruding into the private domain to enforce its diktats. Already we face bans on books, films, magazines, etc., on grounds of 'hurting religious sentiments'. The Shiv Sena in Mumbai wants to tell women how to dress. Now the state will dictate personal morality vis-a-vis smoking to us. This is the thin end of the wedge - the natural progression is to outlawing all images which the state does not approve of. Soon we could see bans on images of people drinking alcohol, people falling in love (and making it), people breaking the law, people using guns, etc. From here to banning images, descriptions (and thoughts) of people protesting against the state, exercising their right to freedom of speech, etc. is a short and easy step. There will be no end to this once we let the state become the arbiter of our personal morality. Once freedom of expression gets eroded, our civil liberties are all under threat. The description by a section of the film industry of this proposal as 'absurd' is only just. Are we going to apply retrospective censorship as well? Images of the celebrations by the Indian team of the 1983 cricket world cup will also have to censored, as some team members are seen happily puffing away. Thousands of photographs (of Winston Churchill, Guru Dutt, Saadat Hassan Manto and many other smokers) will have to be rubbished. We will have to deny reality. This proposed measure is a part of what I call 'anti-smoking fascism'. Smoking has provided a soft and convenient target for modern-day petty moralists. Granted, it is a disgusting, smelly and unhealthy habit, but the state has no business preventing its citizens from engaging in any activities which do not affect anybody other than the individual concerned --however disgusting and obnoxious these activities may be. As far as smoking is concerned, the role of the state extends only insofaras it affects public health. To protect this, the state should impose high taxation, ban smoking in public places (and enforce the ban), and carry out public education campaigns-all of which it is already doing. But intruding on citizens' private spaces to tell them what to do is just not acceptable. Even with justifiable measures, the state has a tendency to go too far. Of course, smoking in offices, auditoria, and other enclosed public spaces is most necessary. Smoking in buses is just not on. But why go in for overkill? Many steps which the government in Goa has taken recently with regard to smoking were totally stupid. To take one example, banning smoking on the roads of Panjim. On what grounds can such a ban be justified? Public health? What does the government plan to do about all those private vehicles (doubtless driven by non-smokers), which spew far more noxious and polluting fumes in our faces on those very same roads? Ban all fossil-fuel driven vehicles? Besides, they have also banned smoking on beaches. This is so patently idiotic that further comment is unnecessary. -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet](no subject)
Doesn't this stuff below come under Goanet's prohibitions? What are the moderators doing? Not that I have any strong difference with what is stated, but people who write stuff like this should learn to be even-handed and not target one particular brand of irrationality, while zealously defending their own favourite brand. I discussed what I know of as Hinduism by itself; That it does not qualify as a religion because it is casteist, racist and blasphemous; putting animals and unbelievable characters and myths born out of 'ganza taking? above the Human Being! In all other religions the doctrine and or faith is based on Humans as prophets and or god; also in Bhudism; though they do not believe in an external God; they do believe in that God is -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet]Fundamentalist Christianity in India
A new breed of missionary by Scott Baldauf Christian Science Monitor, 1st April 2005 Response A new breed of missionary A drive for conversions, not development, is stirring violent animosity in India. By Scott Baldauf | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0401/p01s04-wosc.html JHABUA, INDIA - Biju Verghese believes the end of the world is coming. This faith makes his work urgent: Convert as many Indians to Christianity as possible. Or, as he puts it, reach the unreached at any cost. Mr. Verghese is a new breed of missionary, tied not to the mainline Protestant or Catholic churches that came with European colonizers but to expansionist evangelical movements in the US, Britain, and Australia. These newer Christians are now the most active here, swiftly winning over Indians like Verghese who in turn devote themselves to expanding the church's reach, village by village. Aside from an attraction to the Christian message, some converts welcome the chance to free themselves from a low-caste status within Hinduism. Some may adopt Christianity by simply adding it to their existing beliefs. To others, conversions are a positive statement that you can choose your religious identity rather than have it fixed at birth. But the success of recent Christian missionaries and their methods of quick conversions have brought tensions with other religions, including some Christians who fear that certain evangelicals are contributing to a volatile - and at times violent - religious atmosphere. The new missionaries put an emphasis on speed, compelled sometimes by church quotas and a belief in the approach of the world's end. Aggressive and unprincipled missionary work that exploits the distress and ignorance of marginalized groups ... can constitute a catalyst to localized violence, particularly when they are brought into confrontation with other creeds, says Ajai Sahni, executive director of the Institute of Conflict Management in New Delhi. Nationwide, India has a growing reputation for intolerance toward its religious minorities. The US Committee on International Religious Freedom listed India with 10 other nations of particular concern - a legacy of the months-long riots in Gujarat state, when nearly 1,000 Muslims were murdered by their Hindu neighbors. Colonial legacy Religions on the Indian subcontinent have jostled with each other for millenniums. Invaders spread Hinduism and Islam through conquest, followed by British Christians who hoped to create brown Englishmen. The Christian zeal for conversions ebbed in India after a nearly successful Indian rebellion in 1857 and a theological trend toward good works, such as improving education and healthcare. Some evangelical Christian groups in India are continuing in that tradition. The Evangelical Hospital Association, for instance, has taken over the management of many of the hospitals of Northern India that were built by mainstream Christian churches during the British colonial period. Graham Staines, an evangelical missionary, was famous for his work with lepers in the state of Orissa, before he was murdered in 1999 by Hindu mobs. His wife, Gladys Staines, this week accepted India's highest award for public service, for continuing this work. Yet many of today's missionaries are returning to practices of proselytizing that were long ago abandoned by the mainline missionaries because they were seen as offensive. The church [during British rule] sought actively to communicate the values of the Renaissance with its Christian message, says Mr. Sahni. And while conversion was a significant fact of the British period, the schools and other institutions set up by the missionaries were not primarily driven by the objective of conversion. In recent years, however, conversion activity has grown more intense, driven by the evangelical Christians funded from abroad, and Hindu nationalists. Both are targeting the same groups: impoverished Dalits, formerly known as untouchables, and adivasis, or tribal citizens, who have long practiced a religion predating Hinduism. Nationwide, adivasis number nearly 67 million, or 8 percent of the nation's population. But here in the district of Jhabua, they are more than 80 percent of the population. Adivasis are also among India's poorest citizens, earning perhaps $4 per capita per month. Amid Jhabua's rolling hills and low huts of mud stand Christian churches built 100 years ago. But the conversion work that some call aggressive takes place outside the traditional places of worship. Evangelical and Pentacostal missionaries go village to village, holding prayer meetings in homes or preaching outdoors to all the villagers together. Speaking in tongues, miracles These events often mix emotional messages of personal salvation, speaking in tongues, shaking in trances, and miraculous healings. Some people come for the spectacle; others take
[Goanet]Goan festival of communal amity under secular stress
[Published under the title Faith accompli in The Tribune on April 3, 2005 ] Goan festival of communal amity under secular stress Shiv Kumar Just 30-minutes away from the famed Calangute beach, a small hamlet in Siolim, Goa is bravely struggling to maintain a centuries old tradition that enjoins Hindus and Catholic Christians to jointly salute the formless village deity. On the first Monday after Christmas, Hindu and Christian residents of the waddo or hamlet of Dando congregate on an open plot of land to keep a night-long vigil and appease the formless deity who is believed to protect the village. The zagor or wake begins with prayers that are unmistakably Christian though the sing-song chants are said to have been drawn from the abhangs of Sant Tukaram, Maharashtra's poet-saint. And the wizened priest leading the congregation is a Hindu villager from the toddy-tapper caste who does this just once a year. I am the fifth generation purohit to carry on the tradition, says Vitthal Devraj Shirodkar. Sprightly and sharp despite his 83 years, Shirodkar emphasizes the non-Brahminical traditions of the post-harvest festival. It is a salute to khazaneshwar or the god of the khazan after a good harvest. People offer oil, candles and even cigarettes and feni in thanksgiving, says Shirodkar, affectionately called Daaji by the villagers. The khazan style of agriculture unique to this region enables paddy cultivation, pisciculture and salt manufacture on the same land by regulating the ingress of seawater. Shirodkar's annual ritual is preceded by 40 days of abstinence when he stays away from even non-vegetarian food and prepares for the zagor with prayers and rehearsals with the villagers. The proceedings begin with a procession from the house of his neighbors, the Fernandes' with a coconut ritually offered to the deity. The procession halts at wayside crosses and Hindu shrines including the St. Ann's Chapel. Traditionally three hymns are sung by Hindus and Christians at the chapel before the procession moves on, says Santan D'Souza, one of the hereditary participants at the Zagor. Then Hindus make offerings of oil while Catholics offer candles at the chapel. The prayers before the Zagorio, as the formless deity is called, has Shirodkar offering salutations to the unity of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost. The ritual five hymns by Shirodkar are followed by traditional dances and folk theatre enacted by villagers, hereditary participants whose roles are inherited through generations. The principal characters like the firangi-raja (white lord), mali (gardener), malin (gardener's wife), mahar (untouchable), etc represent Goan society as it evolved through the years. The all night vigil is also helped by the Konkani tiatr, or theatre, where skits on political and social satire are performed. According to Dr. Alito Sequiera, head of Goa University's Sociology Department, the tradition of zagor faced stiff opposition from the erstwhile Portuguese rulers and the Church. Zagors were banned from the mid-17th century till the 1930s, says Dr Sequeira. However the ban was generally ineffective and Hindus and Catholics performed distinctive zagors across the state, says Dr Sequiera. In her book, Feasts, Festivals and Observances of Goa (L L Publications, 2004) Maria de Lourdes Bravo da Costa Rodrigues, traces the Siolim zagor to 1865 when the Hindus and Catholics lobbied with the then Portuguese rulers to get the ban lifted. The Catholics who were banned from participating in the prayers got the Hindus to pray on their behalf, explains Shirodkar about his singing praises to the Christian trinity. Till the singer Remo Fernandes discovered it in the 1980s, the zagor remained just another little tradition that dots the Indian spiritual landscape. It used to be so localized that few outside Siolim knew about it, recollects the singer. The zagor hit big time after Remo wrote about it and gave performances for almost a decade. He quit attending after the zagor threatened to become another party. It got bigger and famous and I was no longer comfortable with it, says the singer. With the Siolim zagor now on the tourist map, the hereditary participants at the zagor have money in their hands. Money is causing problems for everyone, says Shirodkar. A few years ago, the residents of Dando got into a scrap with neighboring villagers who wanted to take the place of the traditional performers. There was trouble and police had to be called in, says Shirodkar. Communalism is also raising its head. Differences among the villagers cropped up after Shirodkar's family built a small shrine akin to a temple on the zagor rounds. Though no idol has been installed, some Catholics are showing signs of discomfort. After some people complained, our parish priest told us not to dance with the Hindus, says Santan D'Souza. The Shirodkar family however
[Goanet]Marx quote
Cecil has painstakingly researched and proved to me that the quote from Marx which I use as my email signature is not really a direct quote from Marx. http://www.uta.edu/english/cgb/marx/faves.html In 1865 Karl Marx filled out a self-portrait questionnaire that was in widespread circulation. One of his responses: Favorite motto: De omnibus dubitandum, One ought to question everything. As Cecil has pointed out, this is a quote by someone else (probably unknown) which Marx gave as his favourite motto. Also, it doesn't exactly mean 'Question everything'. Cecil, I give up! Hereby humbly accepting my inaccuracy. Nevertheless, I will persist in using the same (non)quote as my signature, since it expresses so well what one of the greatest thinkers of all time showed through his writings -- one should not take things at face value, but try and look beyond appearances. Also, blind acceptance of received wisdom will get you into a mess. But then I don't think Goanet needs to be told this. As a motto for Goanet, how about: Question everything, argue about everything, debate everything, and yes, once in a while, abuse everybody and everything! -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet]Re: Outside the group
I personally would agree with the view that when it comes to marriage, Indians in general (and this includes all castes and creeds) are among the most prejudiced of all people. Even using the examples Fred gives (Gujrati with Punjabi etc.), there are very few people who marry outside their own group, usually their own little sub-caste. To some extent, the view that, if blacks were affluent etc. people would be willing, is true, but forget about queuing up. Most feel that their own little sub-caste is superior to all, and will not consider marrying outside it. I have asked this question before. How many Goans are married to Negroes/Blacks? As compared to Goans married to Caucasians or Mongoloids? (I hope I'm using the correct racial terms- but you know what I mean) Does say something about our prejudices doesn't it? Cecil Of course, who says we Goans don't have a racist tinge to our attitudes? On the other hand, if Blacks (negroes is pejorative in many parts of the planet) were very affluent, and defined what beauty meant, I guess a lot of us would be queueing up for matrimonial alliances ;-) FN -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet]Re: Cracked da Vinci code
On the claim of religion to be above criticism, this recent piece by Salman Rushdie says it all. The Telegraph - March 20, 2005 THE TROUBLE WITH RELIGION - Wherever religions get into society's driving seat, tyranny results Salman Rushdie Exception to European secularism I never thought of myself as a writer about religion until a religion came after me. Religion was a part of my subject, of course - for a novelist from the Indian subcontinent, how could it not have been? But in my opinion I also had many other, larger, tastier fish to fry. Nevertheless, when the attack came, I had to confront what was confronting me, and to decide what I wanted to stand up for in the face of what so vociferously, repressively and violently stood against me. Now, 16 years later, religion is coming after us all and, even though most of us probably feel, as I once did, that we have other, more important concerns, we are all going to have to confront the challenge. If we fail, this particular fish may end up frying us. For those of us who grew up in India in the aftermath of the Partition riots of 1946-1947, following the creation of the independent states of India and Pakistan, the shadow of that slaughter has remained as a dreadful warning of what men will do in the name of God. And there have been too many recurrences of such violence in India - in Meerut, in Assam and most recently in Gujarat. European history, too, is littered with proofs of the dangers of politicized religion: the French Wars of Religion, the bitter Irish troubles, the Catholic nationalism of the Spanish dictator Franco and the rival armies in the English Civil War going into battle, both singing the same hymns. People have always turned to religion for the answers to the two great questions of life: Where did we come from? and how shall we live? But on the question of origins, all religions are simply wrong. The universe wasn't created in six days by a superforce that rested on the seventh. Nor was it churned into being by a sky god with a giant churn. And on the social question, the simple truth is that, wherever religions get into society's driving seat, tyranny results. The Inquisition results, or the taliban. And yet religions continue to insist that they provide special access to ethical truths, and consequently deserve special treatment and protection. And they continue to emerge from the world of private life - where they belong, like so many other things that are acceptable when done in private between consenting adults but unacceptable in the town square - and to bid for power. The emergence of radical Islam needs no redescription here, but the resurgence of faith is a larger subject than that. In today's United States, it's possible for almost anyone - women, gays, African-Americans, Jews - to run for, and be elected to, high office. But a professed atheist wouldn't stand a popcorn's chance in Hell. Hence the increasingly sanctimonious quality of so much American political discourse: the current president, according to Bob Woodward, sees himself as a messenger doing the Lord's will, and moral values has become a code phrase for old-fashioned, anti-gay, anti-abortion bigotry. The defeated Democrats also seem to be scurrying toward this kind of low ground, perhaps despairing of ever winning an election any other way. According to Jacques Delors, former president of the European Commission, The clash between those who believe and those who don't believe will be a dominant aspect of relations between the US and Europe in the coming years. In Europe the bombing of a railway station in Madrid and the murder of the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh are being seen as warnings that the secular principles that underlie any humanist democracy need to be defended and reinforced. Even before these atrocities occurred, the French decision to ban religious attire such as Islamic headscarves had the support of the entire political spectrum. Islamist demands for segregated classes and prayer breaks were also rejected. Few Europeans today call themselves religious - only 21 per cent, according to a recent European Values Study, as opposed to 59 per cent of Americans, according to the Pew Forum. In Europe the Enlightenment represented an escape from the power of religion to place limiting points on thought, while in America it represented an escape into the religious freedom of the New World - a move toward faith, rather than away from it. Many Europeans now view the American combination of religion and nationalism as frightening. The exception to European secularism can be found in Britain, or at least in the government of the devoutly Christian, increasingly authoritarian Tony Blair, which is now trying to steamroller Parliament into passing a law against incitement to religious hatred in a cynical vote-getting attempt to placate advocates for British
[Goanet]AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA
- For Immediate Release - March 19, 2005 For more information contact: Dr. Ashwini Rao: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ms. Sapna Gupta: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA Shri Manmohan Singh Prime Minister Government of India South Block, Raisina Hill, New Delhi - 110 011 Dear Prime Minister, We at the Coalition Against Genocide, representing a wide spectrum of over 35 organizations representing thousands of NRIs, urge you to not contest the U.S. State's denial of a diplomatic visa to Mr. Narendra Modi and the cancellation of his existing tourist/business visa. CAG considers the denial of visa to Mr. Modi as a clear victory for all Indians and for supporters of human rights and justice in the U.S. and in India. Claims made by Mr. Modi and the Sangh Parivar that this represents an insult to India and the [Indian] Constitution are laughable, coming as it does from people who have stained the Indian constitution with the blood of thousands of its citizens. Given that your government had recommended to the American embassy that Mr. Modi be given a multi-entry visa, we can understand your discomfiture at the new turn of events. However, we urge you to look at this not through a nationalistic lens or as a violation of protocol, but to consider the larger issues involved. The complicity of Mr. Modi's government in the February-March 2002 Gujarat pogrom is now public knowledge. Not only was Mr. Modi delinquent in his duties as Chief Minister of Gujarat, but he also effectively de-mobilized the state apparatus and gave a free hand to his ideological brethren (from the Sangh Parivar) to carry out the killings. This has been affirmed by numerous national and international civil rights organizations and women's groups. It is also known that Mr. Modi unleashed a virulent campaign against Muslims even after the pogroms and particularly during the campaigning for the December 2002 assembly elections. That the Sangh Parivar's campaign of hate contributed to a stark polarization of the Gujarati civil society along communal lines and eventually resulted in Mr. Modi's electoral victory is also well accepted. (We will be glad to share with you video footage of the divisive ideology of the Sangh at work before the December 2002 assembly elections.) One newspaper aptly called Mr. Modi's victory a harvest of hatred. In short, we assert that while accepting that Mr. Modi was elected to power, we also need to remind ourselves of the willful flouting of constitutional and election commission norms in the run up to the assembly elections, the circumstances under which the elections were held, and the human costs of Mr. Modi's electoral victory. The issue is not simply of Mr. Modi's devious rise to power. After storming back to power in December 2002, his government has played an active role in shielding the culprits and harassing the survivors, witnesses and social justice groups. In a scathing indictment of Mr. Modi, the Indian Supreme Court pronounced: The modern day Neros (a reference to the Gujarat Government) were looking elsewhere when Best Bakery and innocent children and women were burning, and were probably deliberating how the perpetrators of the crime can be saved or protected. The Supreme Court also castigated the Gujarat government for shielding the guilty and ordered the re-opening of 2,000-odd riot cases that had been closed in a hurry. Perceiving danger to the victims and witnesses, the Court -- in an unprecedented move also shifted some cases outside Gujarat. The Supreme Court's not-so-implicit message was that Mr. Modi cannot be relied upon to discharge his duties. Mr. Modi has time and again revealed his utter incapability for discharging his constitutional duties, but that hasn't stopped him from loudly proclaiming his constitutional rights as head of state. We aren't the least bit surprised at Mr. Modi's reaction to his visa snub, but we're appalled that the Indian government has lodged a strong protest to the American embassy and asked for an urgent reconsideration. At this moment, we urge you to think of the valiant struggle for justice waged by the pogrom survivors and human rights activists in Gujarat, and the constant harassment they have faced from Mr. Modi's government and his swayamsevak friends. Mr. Modi's criminal conduct in India ought to have been the real basis for censure and legal redress. It is unfortunate that the issue had to come down to the U.S. revoking his visa, when the UPA government itself should have acted against Mr. Modi's criminal misrule after it came to power on behalf of the Indian people almost a full year ago. In keeping with your common minimum program, we urge you to take immediate action to ensure speedy justice for the victims of the Gujarat pogrom, and bring the perpetrators to book. We also urge you to curtail the fund-raising activities in the US of hate groups such as the one Mr. Modi belongs to. On
[Goanet][Fwd: Murder of Democracy]
Forwarded Message From: DOMINICAN TRAINING CENTRE - MORIA GOA [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Vidyadhar Gadgil [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Murder of Democracy Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:46:53 +0530 Video Forum: March Screening On Saturday, 5th March 2004, at 4.00 p.m. we will be having the sixth screening under the aegis of the video forum. Besides the screening of Goa Freedom Struggle we will also be showing the Murder of Democracy an audio-visual proof of the farce at the Legislative Assembly of Goa during the confidence vote on February 2nd 2005. The venue will be the same: Dominican Training Centre (DTC) For further details see below. To reach the DTC, take the Mapusa-Aldona route. Soon after the Sopier bus stop in Moira, on the left you will see a black board with white lettering Dominican Training Centre. Turn left here and go straight along for about 600 metres, past St. Xavier's School. The DTC is a cream-coloured building on the right. - For further information on the Video Forum contact Prakash Lohale, O.P., at the above tel. no. or at email [EMAIL PROTECTED], or Vidyadhar Gadgil at [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- DTC - Training For Change --- Dominican Training Center (DTC) 350 Pirazona, Moira. Bardez. Goa. 403507. India. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 91-0832-2470398 --- Documentation + Training + Communication -- Question everything - Karl Marx
Re: [Goanet]Caste - Activism v/s Research
Dear Cecil, Most of us (this covers Goanet as well) personally have no caste feelings, and do not discriminate between people on basis of religion, caste, etc. Naturally, we are perplexed as to what everybody is going on about. This was once explained to me by a Sociology Prof. (no less!) as being a fallacy called Psychologism. We assume that social structures are the sum of individual 'feelings' and opinions, when in fact they have an entrenched reality of their own. Such is caste, even though a majority of the population may become 'anti-casteist', systemic discrimination against the depressed castes continues. Apologies to antonio, but this is a general statment on caste and not an invasion of your sacred spaces -- incidentally, according to you, why is the general public barred from that debate? :-) On Wed, 2005-03-02 at 12:55 -0600, Cecil Pinto wrote: So where exactly is this diabolical caste problem? Or am I just to naive to understand some deeper issues involved. What are they? Are we making a mountain of a molehill? Will someone point out to me what exactly the caste problem is? Where does one see it? Is it 'very real' or, as Teotonio put it, are all these current debates the death throes of a dying monster? -- Question everything - Karl Marx
Re: [Goanet]Will the anti-casters identify themselves?
Teotonio's request may strike many as peculiar, but is not off the topic. While not supporting a deterministic viewpoint (i.e. a person's views on caste are determined by her/his caste), caste background can be an important ingredient of how one relates to the issue of caste. Not sure how this works in Goa, but in Maharashtra (the birthplace of the dalit movement as well as the most obscurantist brahminical organisations), from a person's name one almost automatically knows that person's caste background. Maybe that's the case among Goan Hindus? What about Goan catholics? What is the correlation between surname and caste? Incidentally, jc, Kunbi is a caste. VG . and Kunbis. (outcastes like moi) Teotonio R. de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could each one writing on the theme indicate what caste he belongs to? It could help to filter the emotional ingredients of the debate. I am inclined to take the anti-brahmin discourse of a chardo or sudir discussant with a pinch of salt, just as the anti-chardo discourse of a brahmin or sudir, etc. etc. Am I asking too much? Mario replies: Yes, sir, not only are you asking too much, it is none of your business, with all due respect, and also irrelevent to the issue.
[Goanet]Christianity and Caste
This may be helpful in shedding some light on the issue of caste in Christianity in India. * Fr. Ambrose Pinto on Christianity and Dalit Liberation Father Dr. Ambrose Pinto is a Jesuit priest, now based in Bangalore. Earlier, he served as the Executive Director of the Indian Social Institute, New Delhi, an influential Catholic non-governmental organization working among marginalized communities in India. Here he talks to Yoginder Sikand about Christianity and Dalit Liberation. Q:What is the theology that undergrids the work of Catholic organizations, such as the Indian Social Institute, that are working in the field of social transformation? A:At the root of our theological understanding is the realization that there is actually no difference between theology as such and anthropology. The science of God and the science of humanity are one and the same. Our theological mandate also entails the full humanization of humanity, because, as the Bible says, God made humans in His own image. Hence, according to us, there is no difference between a true person of God and a true person of the world. Now, this theological project of the full humanization of human beings forces one to actively intervene in the affairs of the world, to combat obstacles that stand in the path of realizing the fullest potential of all humans. In a context of massive poverty and galling inequalities, as we have in our country, this project necessarily means exercising the option for the poor. We believe that you cannot call yourself a true follower of God if you do not choose to exercise this option. For us, this option is a necessary part of our theology. Q:But, the Catholic Church has itself been accused of having historically sided with the forces of domination and oppression. What about the continued marginalisation of Dalits within the Catholic Church in India? A:You do have a point there. In fact, in India the Church structures are, in large measure, still very Brahminical, steeply hierarchical and highly bureaucratic. Because of this, the Church has begun to lose contact with the Dalit masses. In the name of Indianising the Church a subtle process of Brahminisation has been promoted, which is a total negation of the Dalit ethos and the Dalit identity. The Brahminisation of the. Church has meant that the symbols and culture of the Dalits have completely ignored, although the Dalits and the Tribals constitute the vast majority among the Indian Catholics. However, in recent years, many Dalit and tribal Christians have begun demanding that they should be allowed to articulate their own symbols, and should not be forced to denigrate or deny their own rich cultures. The marginalisation of the Dalits has been particularly noticeable with regard to Catholic schools. There is a great measure of truth in the accusation that elite Catholic schools have actually been giving quality education to dominant social groups rather than to the most needy. But, in recent years there has been some change in our policies. Recently, the heads of various Jesuit colleges in India got together for a meeting and we decided that we should now devote far more attention than we have so far been doing to Dalit education. Q:There is much talk now in Catholic circles of what is called Dalit theology. What do you understand by this term? A:Dalit theology is theological reflection rooted in the understanding that God is struggling with the Dalits for their liberation, that He is on their side. It seeks to instill a sense of pride in their identity, because a theology that does not provide them a sense of pride is, for all purposes, a useless one. Q:But is it not the case that many Dalits would rather seek to escape from their inherited Dalit identity? In that case, how could Dalit theology help them take pride in that very identity? A:Yes, there is a problem here, but that is because the religious, cultural, educational and social system within which the Dalits find themselves insists that the Dalits are impure, are lesser beings and so on. On the other hand, what Dalit theology says is that for the Dalits to liberate themselves from the shackles of the caste system, they must learn to take pride in their identity, their heroes, their role in the productive process and their history. Only on that basis can a solid foundation for the Dalit liberation movement be constructed. Q:How does Dalit theology see the issue of conflict? A:When a historically marginalised and oppressed community like the Dalits begins to organise and assert itself for its rights, there is bound to be conflict, especially since this will obviously not be to the liking of groups who have developed vested interests in keeping the Dalits enslaved for centuries. And this is what is happening today. But it is really strange that when the Dalits were kept oppressed for centuries as victims of
[Goanet]Video Forum on 8th January: Final Solution
by the Censors. I submitted the film to them about three months ago. They are sitting over it. I get no reason either, laments Sharma whose film has already won two awards at the Berlin Film Festival this year. Instead he has got show-cause notices! Now, that is no solution. - For some time now, some of us have been discussing the possibility of starting a forum to show films on various social issues. With CD technology, there is now a whole lot of material fairly easily available, and this is an opportunity we should exploit. Prakash Lohale, O.P., of the Dominican Training Centre, Moira, who has taken the initiative in this matter, has also kindly agreed to be the host for this forum. The objectives of the Video Forum are: 1.To bring people together to see films/documentaries on various social issues. 2.To stimulate discussion, reflection, sharing and critical thinking on these issues. We have some films/documentaries already with us. We also request people who have films on social issues with them to lend these films for viewing. The forum will have a screening followed by a discussion on the first Saturday of every month from 4.00-6.00 p.m. at the Dominican Training Centre (DTC), Pirazona, Moira 403507, Tel. No. 2470398. To reach the DTC, take the Mapusa-Aldona route. Soon after the Sopier bus stop in Moira, on the left you will see a black board with white lettering Dominican Training Centre. Turn left here and go straight along for about 600 metres, past St. Xavier's School. The DTC is a cream-coloured building on the right. -- For further information on the Video Forum contact Prakash Lohale, O.P., at the above tel. no. or at email [EMAIL PROTECTED], or Vidyadhar Gadgil at [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
[Goanet]Little Prince in Konkani
## # Goanetters-2004 meet in Goa. Dec 21, Tuesday. 12 noon to 2 pm. # # Clube Vasco, Near Municipal Garden, Panjim. Pass the word around! # ## A friend is searching for The Little Prince by Antoine Saint-Exupery in Konkani. Apparently, it was published as Mankulo Rajkuvar (in Devanagari Konkani) some years ago. Does anybody have any leads, as she would really like to obtain a copy of the book, since she is collecting this book in the various languages in which it has published? Reports are that it has been published in 142 languages. Do get in touch if you have any information.
[Goanet]Problems on Sancharnet
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Sancharnet was giving a lot of trouble with mailgroups last week. In fact, I have started getting Goanet again only now. Many others I spoke to have had a similar problem. What about others on Sancharnet? Sorry if this issue has already been taken up in this forum and this is repititive, but I wouldn't know, because I only started getting the Goanet mails again yesterday. Below is a letter written to Sancharnet. No reply as yet. 2nd Dec. 2004 To, Internet Help Desk, BSNL, Panjim Dear Sir/Madam, Since 25th Nov. till this afternoon, no messages have been coming through to my Sancharnet email ID from any of the mailgroups on Yahoo Groups. Enquiries with a number of other subscribers having sancharnet email IDs reveal that they have been facing the same problem. Access to the Yahoo Groups website (groups.yahoo.com) was also denied from the Sancharnet server, and the message 'Gateway Error' kept popping up. I have checked up on the Yahoo Groups website (using another ISP, since Sancharnet was denying access) and examined all groups which I am involved in moderating. All Sancharnet IDs subscribed to those mailgroups were giving a 'Hard Bounce' since 25th Nov., indicating that the Sancharnet server was rejecting those mails. (This problem seems to have been largely restricted to Sancharnet IDs subscribed from Goa, though I am not sure of this, and other IDs may have been affected.) This problem is not restricted to Yahoo Groups alone -- messages from Goanet to Sancharnet IDs have also been bouncing and I am following up with the moderators of the mailgroup on this and will get back to you with detailed information. Since yesterday, I have repeatedly been phoning the Help Desk and trying to get the matter sorted out. Since this afternoon, the blocking seems to have been stopped. But, as a result, hundreds of subscribers to mailgroups have lost out on a week's worth of messages. Further, due to the Hard Bounce, many of the accounts have been automatically turned off, creating additional work for moderators and subscribers in having to turn them on again. The financial problems as well as the mental tension and additional work created by this are extremely serious. From all indications it appears that Sancharnet had deliberately blocked all mails from Yahoo Groups and other selected mailgroups, and had also blocked access to the Yahoo Groups website. The problems are too consistent and too logical to have been the result of a random internet error. I request an urgent clarification from Sancharnet on this matter. If messages were blocked to all Sancharnet subscribers or selectively to a certain region or certain subscribers, I would like to know on what authority such an arbitrary and illegal action was taken. Yours sincerely, Vidyadhar Gadgil
[Goanet]Video Screening: The Chopper Attack
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## On Saturday, 4th December 2004, at 4.00 p.m. we will be having the fourth screening under the aegis of the video forum. THE CHOPPER ATTACK is a 50 minutes video interview with activists protesting mining in Pissurlem village in Sattari Taluka of North Goa. Interviews with Pandurang Porob and Hanumant Porob explores Political economy of iron ore mining for exports during the past 52 years. The Video brings out the effects on People living in the vicinity in terms health, ecology, economy and Polity in their own words. The interviews conducted after Pandurang Porob was chopper attacked on 4th September 2004 for demanding two buckets of water; seeks to convey that the incident is much more serious and deeper than Law and Order Problem. The venue will be the same: Dominican Training Centre (DTC) For further details see below. ___ For some time now, some of us have been discussing the possibility of starting a forum to show films on various social issues. With CD technology, there is now a whole lot of material fairly easily available, and this is an opportunity we should exploit. Prakash Lohale, O.P., of the Dominican Training Centre, Moira, who has taken the initiative in this matter, has also kindly agreed to be the host for this forum. The objectives of the Video Forum are: 1. To bring people together to see films/documentaries on various social issues. 2. To stimulate discussion, reflection, sharing and critical thinking on these issues. We have some films/documentaries already with us. We also request people who have films on social issues with them to lend these films for viewing. The forum will have a screening followed by a discussion on the first Saturday of every month from 4.00-6.00 p.m. at the Dominican Training Centre (DTC), Pirazona, Moira 403507, Tel. No. 2470398. To reach the DTC, take the Mapusa-Aldona route. Soon after the Sopier bus stop in Moira, on the left you will see a black board with white lettering Dominican Training Centre. Turn left here and go straight along for about 600 metres, past St. Xavier's School. The DTC is a cream-coloured building on the right. - For further information on the Video Forum contact Prakash Lohale, O.P., at the above tel. no. or at email [EMAIL PROTECTED], or Vidyadhar Gadgil at [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet]Religious labelling on Goanet
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But how the hell can you, as a Muslim, oppose freedom and democracy for fellow Muslims, well knowing that there are very few Muslim democracies, and well knowing that Muslims. There really is a lot of religious labelling going on at Goanet, of which the above posting is but one example. There are plenty more in all the discussions on US elections, Iraq and on the discussion on caste. What I mean by 'religious labelling' is analysing other people's views and postings on the basis of assumed religious affiliation. What does Tariq being a Muslim (if that's what he is, I have never found him identifying himself as such) have to do with the statements he made? How does a person being a Hindu become the basis for criticising the comments s/he makes on caste. And why is another person's being a Christian dragged in gratuituously into the discussion? This approach makes me very uncomfortable. If asked to identify myself, religious affiliation would not even figure in the first hundred items. Okay, I am an atheist, but I think for most people their religious affiliation is not an overwhelming part of their identity, and certainly not of their social and political views. So, let us stop this business of 'X is a Muslim/Christian/Hindu/whatever posting a certain view' and respond to the merits of the argument rather than the assumed religious affiliation of the person making them. Further, why are we assuming some monolithic structure to a faith, which makes all the people of that faith have the same views? Why can't Christian differ with Christian, Hindu with Hindu, and Muslim with Muslim and etc. with etc. on the subject of Iraq or US elections or whatever. BTW, on the subject of whether a person can be identified as a Hindu based on whether s/he believes in God or not, in India the legal position is that anybody born of Hindu parents is 'Hindu', unless converted to another religion. Further, I think one is legally whatever religion one describes oneself as. Suppose X says s/he is Christian, whether going to church or not, believing in God or not, who is to dispute this? Maybe there might be exceptions to this general rule like Zoroastrinism...
[Goanet]Re: Story in the shape of stamps... numismatics and religion
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## The book by Robert Newman Of Umbrellas, Goddesses and Dreams published by Other India Press, Mapusa, has a very interesting article on stamps of Portuguese India, which are used as a take-off point for some historical and anthropological musings.
[Goanet]Re: On being a Goan
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Fred: You should be judging me on the basis of what I say, not on the basis of such considerations. Cecil: Apples and oranges. You cannot change your blood group or caste but you can change the colour of your underpants... Cecil, you have hidden behind humour and ducked Fred's question. Should one be judged on the basis of what one says, or on the basis of other considerations, though these considerations may be as different from each other as apples and oranges? Of course, Karl Marx quite rightly held that one should never judge people by what they say but by what they do, but since Goanet is all about saying (talking), we can let that pass. Cecil: This is the crux of the matter. Who calls themselves Goans? The crux indeed. I think Mervyn has already answered part of your question by pointing out that a person can have multiple, overlapping and intersecting identities. And these are not necessarily in conflict, why can't people consider themselves Goan and Bengali/Malayali/Portuguese/French/Tanzanian or whatever? What is the conflict betweent these identities? This question of allegiance is valid if the two entities are at war or something, then one might have to choose between the two identities. Meanwhile, why can't these identities happily co-exist? It's all a matter of allegiance. This 'allegiance' business is very worrisome. Next we'll be talking of having a kind of Tebbit test, so if a person cheers for Andhra Pradesh in a Goa-Andhra Pradesh Ranji trophy cricket match, that person stands condemned. Yes, allegiance in terms of looking out for the interests of the place one lives in is important. It is also plain common sense. There is a saying, which can be roughly paraphrased as Do not sh-- in the plate from which you eat! So of course all those who live in Goa should be concerned about the interests of Goa, and opposed to things which harm Goa. We Goans spend so much time debating who is Goan and being polite to non-Goans (on this matter) - most of whom identify themselves by their home State / Country Yes, people in Goa are by and large among the nicest, politest people I have met, but whether they are always sensitive to those whom they perceive as 'outsiders' is a question which would be firmly answered in the negative by any bunch of 'outsiders'. A little personal digression here. Over the years I have lived in various parts of India, but have spent substantial years in Madhya Pradesh, Bihar and Karnataka (apart from Maharashtra, where I was born and grew up). Yes, people everywhere suffer from this outsider/insider mentality (all human beings are firmly convinced that they and the group/s they belong to are superior to all others), but in Goa it does have a bit of a paranoid edge. The kind of bizarre remarks that I have heard here have simply been astounding! A number of times various people have said things to my face like You outsiders are coming here and taking our jobs/homes/land/etc. By now I have a stock reply to this, There are so many Goans in my 'home town' that there are no jobs/homes/land/etc. available for me there, so what to do? This retort happens to have a certain amount of truth in it. I do not identify myself as a 'Maharashtrian', but it can be demonstrated with little difficulty that there are far more 'Goans' in Maharashtra (particularly in Bombay and Pune) than there are 'Maharashtrians' in Goa. Which brings me to something I have never really understood. One would expect that a community which has such a large and widespread diaspora would be particularly sensitive on this insider/outsider business; after all, nearly every 'Goan' I know has a close relative settled elsewhere in India or the world. But this is not the case; insensitivity and paranoia rules. If the Rane's or the migrant's proudly call themselves Goans then they will be accepted as such I think. Yes, I am willing to broadly accept this definition of 'Goan' -- those who call themselves as such! But the problem is that though I call myself a Goan, most 'Goans' call me an 'outsider'. It's those who still retain their native place as their identity who have no right to call themselves Goan. Why not? Multiple identities! Not 'or' but 'and'. Fred: * Since we all do not believe that man originated in Goa, it is obvious that all of us
[Goanet]Re: Being a Goan on Goanet
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Maybe I expressed myself badly, let me clarify. In a discussion between two people (one 'Goan' and one 'non-Goan'), each puts forth a point of view. Let us assume that both the points of view are equally valid. Are you then saying that in case of such a debate on Goanet, the Goan wins? Or that any additional weightage whatsoever should be given to the arguments of the party that is 'Goan'? In that case, I beg to differ. All I was trying to say was that in a debate on an issue (on Goanet or wherever), the ethnic origins/background of the parties are extraneous and irrelevant and need not be brought in. I see that Helga probably mentioned these facts 'by the way', and not in relation to the deabte itself... Cecil wrote: This is GoaNet so naturally being Goan is in one's favour. It does not automatically assume that we have to be rude to Somalians, Afghans, Sudanese, Americans, British or French. But this is not World Net or IndiaNet. This is GoaNet!!! So naturally being a Goan is in one's favour. Or isn't it? -- Question everything - Karl Marx
[Goanet]Re: Chris Vaz's Comment
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## It is amazing how some people can hide from reality. Just about 10 days ago, the US Weapons Inspector stated that Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction, Britian and the US have accepted this. Maybe humour can penetrate through to ostrich (head-in-the-sand) types. Sorry to recycle an old joke, but it is quite funny still. Go to Google, type in Weapons of Mass Destruction, click on I'm Feeling Lucky (not on Search). When the page comes up, DON'T MOVE ON WITH A SIGH. LOOK CAREFULLY! From: Chris Vaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course he had WMDs. He had used them against the Kurds and the Iranians in the past. Besides, he had sufficient time while the UN was dawdling to either squirrel them away or send them to Syria or Iran!
[Goanet]Re: Chris Vaz's comment
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## While agreeing with the general sentiment expressed by Helga do Rosario Gomes criticising Chris Vaz's comments, I really fail to understand why Tariq's being Goan is offered in his favour. What does this have to do with the issue? What if he was Somalian, Afghan, Sudanese, or American, British or French, or whatever... For that matter, what does the fact that his father did so much for Goa and Goans have to do with the issue? All too often such views seem to come across subliminally on Goanet. Don't insult others on Goanet, because they're Goans? Be nice to ... Goans? And to the rest of the world, it's all okay? From: Helga do Rosario Gomes [EMAIL PROTECTED] You may be unaware of this but Tariq was raised in Goa. His father was a very highly respected geologist who until his premature death was the Director of the National Institute of Oceanography in Dona PaulaGoans now come in a variety of names like Siddique, Shastry and Swami. Like the spectrum of American names from Obama to Oliveira.
[Goanet]Asians in Kenya
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Given the Africa connection of many on Goanet, this may be of interest * Magazine The Hindu, November 7, 2004 THE SHASHI THAROOR COLUMN `We're all Kenyans here' Did this Asian home in Kenya have room for African angels too? THE HINDU PHOTO LIBRARY In 1969, before the turmoil ... an Asian trader in Nairobi. HERE, said Mr. Shankardass, leading me to his garden, we live in heaven. I looked around the lush African foliage, multicoloured flowers ablaze amidst the verdant Nairobi green. It certainly looks like Paradise, I replied. I don't mean the garden, my 86-year-old host replied. I mean Kenya. Mr. Shankardass' garden was a metaphor: a fertile place in magnificent bloom, it stood for the life that Asians were able to lead in this corner of East Africa. Mr. Shankardass and his wife were both born in Kenya, when it was a British colony. They had grown up amidst anti-colonial ferment, in which most Asians - descended mainly from 19th-Century migrants and indentured workers from the Indian subcontinent - made common cause with their African fellow-subjects. But when Independence came, some Africans looked on the Asians as interlopers, foreigners depriving the locals of jobs and economic opportunity. In next-door Uganda in 1972, the dictator Idi Amin gave his entire Asian population 72 hours to leave the country for good. The mass expulsion of Ugandan Asians, mainly people who had never known any other home, sent tremors through the Asian community in Kenya and Tanzania as well. But their fears proved unfounded. Asians stayed on in Kenya as honoured and respected citizens, building flourishing businesses and excelling in the professions. Mr. Shankardass' garden was emblematic of that. But I couldn't help wondering, as I devoured a delicious Punjabi lunch on his porch with three generations of his Kenya-born family, whether the garden was an oasis as well, isolating the Asians from the Africans amongst whom they prospered. Indians abroad are often an insular people, focusing on their own community, customs and (as I could savour it) cuisine. Did Mr. Shankardass' heaven have room for African angels too? It didn't take me long to find out I needn't have worried. Later that day I attended a party in my honour thrown by another Kenyan Asian, the media entrepreneur Sudhir Vidyarthi, to whom I had been introduced by my good friend and former U.N. colleague Salim Lone, a Kashmiri Kenyan. Mr. Vidyarthi's father had run an anti-British newspaper, The Colonial Times, in which the legendary Jomo Kenyatta had first published his nationalist screeds. The elder Vidyarthi had gone to jail for his pains, and his son had continued in the family tradition, as a courageous anti-establishment publisher. A striking ethnic mix Sudhir Vidyarthi's garden, with its outdoor deck and outsize bar, was even grander and more impressive than Mr. Shankardass', but as 50 guests milled about on the patio, what struck me most was their ethnic mix. An Indian DJ bantered with the African CEO of a rival radio station; a Ugandan Asian journalist questioned the newly appointed Government spokesman; a senior government official, a striking woman with a vivid tribal scar down her cheek, held forth to an older lady in a graceful sari. Asians and Africans melded seamlessly into one. We're all Kenyans here, my host said simply. A group of Kenyan South Asians was publishing a magazine called Awaaz, subtitled the Authoritative Journal of Kenyan South Asian History. I was given a copy of the latest issue. On the cover was a photo of the recently deceased Pranlal Sheth, a hero of Kenyan independence who was then deported from his country by the Kenyatta Government and died in exile in England. If that seemed discouraging, the same issue carried a review of a new play by a Kenyan-Indian playwright, Kuldip Sondhi, dealing with shop demolitions in Mombasa. And a portfolio of photographs by the legendary Mohammed Amin, who first broke the news of the Ethiopian famine with his searing pictures, lost a leg in the Somali civil war but went on immortalising East Africa through his lens till he was killed in a plane crash five years ago. There was much talk at the party about a new exhibition that had just been mounted by the National Museum of Kenya. It was called The Asian African Heritage: Identity and History; through photographs, documents and artefacts, the exhibition depicted two centuries of Asian assimilation into Kenya. Indian labour had built forts in Kenya as early as the 16th Century; Indian masons and
[Goanet]Re: Banned Indian film on riots to =?unknown?b?YmXCoA==?= broadcast on BBC
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## The film Final Solution has been granted a censor's certificate (one of the Board's last actions before Anupam Kher, the Chairman, was booted out), so it is no longer 'banned'. And yes, copies are available, contact off this mailgroup...
[Goanet]Protect Christians of Dalit origin
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Deccan Herald November 04, 2004 IN PERSPECTIVE Protect Christians of Dalit origin There is need to legislate a bill to give Christians of SC/ST origin their due rights and privileges By Eduardo Faleiro During the last session of Parliament a memorandum was submitted to the Prime Minister listing some of the grievances of the Christian community. The memorandum calls for effective implementation of the Prime Minister's 15-Point Programme for the Welfare of the Minorities. The programme was launched by the late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi and has been endorsed by all successive governments. There is a special cell in the Home Ministry to oversee the implementation of this programme though it has been quite ineffective in recent years. Seven of the 15 points deal with steps to prevent communal conflicts, for swift punishment to the culprits and for speedy and adequate relief to the victims of communal violence. Events in Gujarat and elsewhere have shown that often scant attention is paid to the observance of these directives. Rights of Christian dalits The memorandum highlights the failure of the Union Government to extend to Christians of Scheduled Caste origin, the legal protection and constitutional benefits available to dalits professing other religions. Mahatma Gandhi and Dr B R Ambedkar had often pointed out that change of religion does not bring about any change in the social status of the weaker sections. They continue to suffer the same social and economic disabilities. The Supreme Court held in the Mandal Case that untouchability is a humiliating and shameful malady caused by deep-rooted prejudice which does not disappear with the change of faith... (Indira Sawhney v. Union of India). The National Minorities Commission acknowledged this reality in its Annual Report for the year 1997-98 and recommended that the Constitution (Scheduled Castes) Order 1950 should be amended so as to omit altogether the proviso that a person belonging to a particular religion cannot be regarded as a member of a Scheduled Caste, so that the unconstitutional nexus between caste and religion is eliminated. On March 11, 1996, the then Social Welfare Minister Sitaram Kesri submitted to the Lok Sabha, the Constitution (Scheduled Castes) Order Amendment Bill 1996. Its Statement of Objects and Reasons reads as follows: Converts to the Christian religion who are of Scheduled Caste origin are precluded from the statutory benefits and safeguards accruing to the members of the Scheduled Castes. Demands have been made from time to time for extending these benefits and safeguards to Christians of Scheduled Caste origin by granting them recognition as Scheduled Castes on the ground that the change of religion has not altered their social and economic condition. Upon due consideration of these demands, it is proposed to amend the relevant Constitution (Scheduled Castes) Order to include the Christian converts of Scheduled Castes among the Scheduled Castes therein. The Bill could not be introduced in Parliament due to the dissolution of the 10th Lok Sabha. The present Government should now re-introduce this legislation and get it approved as a Constitution Amendment. Personal law changes Another matter of concern to the Christian community is the question of amendment of their Personal Laws. Some of these laws such as those relating to adoption and succession have become obsolete and need to be updated. During a debate in Parliament in December 1999 the then Government had assured that with personal laws we do not really want to interfere. We will leave it to the community but if the community wants it we would only be too happy to carry out the necessary amendments. There should be no difficulty in carrying the amendments to the Christian Personal Laws which have already been proposed to the Law Ministry by the representative Christian organisations. The Memorandum was endorsed by Members of Parliament belonging to different religious denominations. While subscribing to it, some mentioned privately that they were doing so because the demands were just and fair but expressed misgivings about reported conversions being carried out by missionaries in some parts of the country. I was recently in the Mayurbhanj district of Orissa where Rev Graham Staines and his two sons were killed some years ago. During my stay in the district I found that both Christian and Hindu missionaries were propagating their respective faiths. What the adivasis need is not more religion but
[Goanet]Re, re, re, re: caste
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Gilbert Lawrence responds: The dialogue below precisely makes my point of yesterday. Are we talking the same thing? 1. Are we referring to Goa or are we talking about India? The argument is applicable to both. I am a relative newcomer to Goa, but one thing is clear, there is a brahmin-chardo dominated Catholic clergy in Goa. For this, A.C. Menezes' mail on this forum is illuminating, I quote: ...from 16th century to the end of the second world war, only boys coming from the bamon families were allowed to become priests ( the chhaddi boy most probably entered the portals of the seminary sometime during the 19th century ). is this not religious sanction of the caste system? Caste is a pan-Indian phenomenon, and most arguments on this subject are as applicable to Goa as to India. 2. Are we talking about the Catholic Church or the Christian church? Again, the problem of upper-caste dominated clergy referred to is applicable to both Catholic and Christian church, as it is to most institutions in India, irrespective of creed. 3. Has anybody heard about Dalit agitations in Goa? VG pl.respond! No, I haven't, maybe somebody else has? But if the fact that the clergy is upper-caste dominated is true, maybe we need an agitation here, not specifically 'dalit', but by those 'lower' castes which have traditionally been excluded. It will speed up reform. Again, I repeat one possible solution: Maybe some reservation for dalit clergy at all levels of the church hierarchy would help? Or, rather than reservation, affirmative action along the lines of the US? And one more point, in response,to Dr. Jos Colao, whose comment I paste below. Given the reforms in all communities, and the calls from all enlightened quarters for a total end to the caste system, anyone who believes in and practices the caste system is that much poorer as a human being - FULL STOP! Please understand that I utterly and absolutely condemn the racist Caste System of India. I also believe that ANYONE who believes in it and practises it - is NOT a Catholic but a Hindu - FULL STOP!
[Goanet]Re: Caste
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## Basilio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A cursory glance at empirical data will show, to any dispassionate student of caste problem, that there is no data or demonstrable evidence to perpetuate the accusation that the Church remains complicit in the caste business. There is quite a lot of evidence of exactly that available. For one thing, look at the dismal figures of dalit Christian clergy in India (as compared to their ratio in the Christian population). There have been a number of agitations within the Christian (all sects) community seeking redressal of this, but not much progress has taken place. It is indisputable that the Church, i.e. individuals in the hierarchy of the Church (for a thoughtful and dispassionate discussion this is an important distinction between the hierarchy of the church and the church) has pandered to caste and casteism. The distinction drawn between the Church (the institution), and the 'hierarchy of the church' is specious. The way an institution operates in the real world is determined to quite an extent by its hierarchy, and as long as these hierarchies cling to their entrenched privileges, we are not going to see much progress. Maybe some reservation for dalit clergy at all levels of the church hierarchy would help? Or, rather than reservation, affirmative action along the lines of the US?
[Goanet]Re: Caste
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## The discussion on caste has been really stimulating. Viviana's comments reminded me of something the great Tariq Ali (of Paris 1968 fame) had said when in 1985 he addressed the students and faculty at TISS where I was studying in Bombay. He was asked what had struck him most about social reality in India. To paraphrase roughly, he said that the all-pervasive caste system was probably the feature that struck (and appalled) him the most. He made it a point to clarify that in India caste cut across all communities, Hindus, Muslims, Catholics, Sikhs etc., with Buddhists being probably the only exception (probably because most Buddhists are dalits). Whatever else people may or may not have carried over with them from Hinduism, they all carried along caste: lock, stock and barrel. Which is crazy when you come to think of it, since Sikhism in particular was an explicit attempt to fight the caste system, and caste would be against basic tenets of Christianity and Islam. About Fred's comments, I heartily agree. We all too easily say that caste doesn't matter to us, and in most cases we're speaking the truth, but to believe that institutionalised social prejudice and discrimination is the sum of individual opinions is to fall into the trap of psychologism, which is a complete fallacy. Again in college, all of us used to feel that we are above caste and would never discriminate, until one of our teachers told us to pay attention and observe that the dalit students sit separately for food in the mess, and that few other students have much interaction with them. Nobody had any 'conscious' discrimination against them, the reason for not interacting much was given as them being different (with more impolite words were used to describe the difference). So whether we have any conscious caste feeling or not, it is an all-pervasive feature of Indian society, and we need to realise that we inevitably discriminate, because our society is so structured as to systematically discriminate against 'lower' castes. It is only when we realise this that we can begin to take corrective steps at our own individual level. And finally, amen to Rico's words: who believe such problems won't go away simply by pushing it under the carpet Viviana: Judging from the matrimonial ads in Goan newspapers Caste is still a major issue even among Catholics. Among my contemporaries this is not an issue, or at least never a subject of discussion. I dont know what caste any of my friends are, and I dont care, and neither do they. Among Catholics at least there should be no castes. When a Hindu becomes a Moslem, the person no longer has a caste. Why did the Catholicism allow the caste system to continue ? Fred: A lot of Catholics simply (i) don't understand caste or (ii) pretend it doesn't exist. This helps to build smoke-screens that helps a better understanding of why Goa and Goans work (or don't work) the way they do. Those born in the so-called 'upper' castes can pretend that caste doesn't exist. But if anyone was born as a Dalit (the worst off) he would be hit by the reality of caste before he was four years old, Sainath said. A lifetime of experience has taught me that no matter how hard I try in personal arguments, I can never persuade a person who believes in caste not to believe in caste. Looks like a slight blurring of issues due to the language chosen. We need to distinguish between someone subscribing to caste-based notions of superiority/hierarchy, and those (like Cornel and myself) who believe such problems won't go away simply by pushing it under the carpet.
[Goanet]Re: Catholic wedding: a sacrament
## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/# # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ## This approach to the issue of marriage on the part of the Catholic has always struck me as peculiar. In case of marriages between Catholics and non-Catholics, the issue often comes up, as the Catholic half of the union tends to be very attached to the sacrament and therefore insists on it being carried out -- in addition to the civil wedding. This is peculiar, especially since 'secular' laws like the Special Marriages Act have been created specifically to enable marriages without religious trappings, and this is particularly useful to marriages between people of different religions. Else, everybody insists on carrying out what their faith prescribes, and people get married twice or even thrice. Maybe the Church needs to relook at its position and accept that 'secular' procedures are equally valid? The Christian marriage is regarded as sacrament, while the non-Christian marriage is not. This point is debatable and some Catholic theologians do not like the distinction, but it is still held.
[Goanet]Re: Church built on temple
Maybe the BJP (or, rather, the Sangh Parivar) has not actually demanded the 'return' of temples, but they have been displaying their usual penchant for fishing in troubled waters; and in case the waters are not troubled, stirring them up first. Take 3 news items noted over the past few months. 1. Shripad Naik says 'Goa is not the Rome of the East, but the Kashi of the Konkan'. 2. Our beloved governor says that is a national duty to rebuild temples destroyed by the Portuguese. 3. 100 people storm the Archbishop's palace, demanding that a stone, which they claim is a Sivalinga, be turned over to them. One can see here a systematic escalation of the tempo, stirring up the waters and seeing what emerges. Local people, both Hindu and Catholic, may not want to reverse history, but it is naive to think that the Hindutva types are going to let sleeping dogs lie. Systematic malicious propaganda would end up poisoning people's minds. One thing though, the way to tackle this kind of problem is defintely not by denying history, like denying that the Inquisition ever happened, or that the Portuguese destroyed temples and built churches. Rather, one must confront these facts and place them in correct historical perspective. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]Re: On Homeschooling
With respect to the homeschooling issue, Viviana makes sense when she says that homeschooling is not only those right-wing religious fanatics; yes, there is much to homeschooling than that. But a fact remains. Go to Google directory, find the homeschooling section, and see what's there -- a good 80% is 'Christian' homeschooling. For a small attempt towards popularising homeschooling and issues of education at a 'secular', non-Western level, check out www.multiworld.org/taleemnet. Vidyadhar ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]Re: Goa's Inquisition a.k.a. Land-Grab
Pardon this intervention in a debate that I have been silently following
for some time.
On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 19:51, Gilbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is the name given to the land-grab by Muslim conquerors from
700-1500?
Conquest. Invasion.
What was the land-grab called when done by white settlers in
USA, Canada, Australia, India and Africa?
Colonisation. Extermination. Genocide.
What is the land-grab called
when undertaken by the European Jews in former Palestine?
Zionism.
Have these groups intertwined the terminology with religion? No Seri! It
is just called 'colonial atrocities' or 'spoils of war' etc., and that
is what we should call it in Goa too!!! Regards, Gilbert
Whether the terminology (I have only given a few suggestions, many more
one-word descriptions are possible) is intertwined with religion or not
(the word Zionism is), 'religion' has explicitly and implicitly been one
of the justifications advanced for each of the above. As it was for the
Inquisition. Perhaps the word Inquisition is more intertwined with
religion, because religion was more explicitly advanced as one of the
justifications, whatever the real motive may have been ('land-grab'
sounds fine).
But what are you then saying? That the Inquisition was just a land-grab
and religion is unfairly being blamed, while in other cases of
land-grab, the religious aspect is being ignored? I don't think that
such is the case at all.
Let us just accept that each of the deplorable phenomena you describe
above took place (including the Inquisition), and that 'religion' was
often advanced by the proponents of each of them as being a
justification, irrespective of the real motivation; and that we should
learn from history.
Best wishes,
Vidyadhar Gadgil
##
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##
[Goanet]Situation at Baina beach: Human Rights violations
Situation and events at Baina beach area The situation at Baina beach has been going from bad to worse with repeated human rights violations. Details are given below, as you read on the gravity of the situation and the need for urgent action will become clear. The last (and most recent) update below dated 9/1/04 gives an idea of the current situation. For more information contact Arz at 2519951, email [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Update 1 Dear All, Arz is a development organisation working to combat trafficking in humans at the Baina beach red light area. This is in follow up of our meeting held in Panjim on 13/10/2003 regarding the situation at Baina red light area in the wake of the High Court Orders. The situation is since worsened. Instead of the State taking the stand of rehabilitating those it is displacing, its law enforcement machinery is engaging in gross human rights violations and spreading terror in the area. There is an intensification of rights violations being carried on in the area to the extent that the police has cordoned off the area, is beating up helpless residents, has stopped the entry or selling of small hawkers on whom the prostituted women depend for their basic necessities, carrying out video filming within gallis and of the prostituted women, threatening the women to leave and are not allowing free movement of persons (including those belonging to families and not engaged in prostitution) in or outside the area and a near total stoppage of the entry of customers in the area. With restriction of essentials, restraining movement of women and girls, suspension of the earnings of the women here, without any information or access to any alternate means of earnings, and an overall terror being spread in the area, the situation here requires immediate attention for bringing about humane interventions for the people here. Arz has worked at spreading appropriate awareness, quelling fear and confusion in the area and helping to keep the residents calm, despite provocation by the police. There are constant abuse and threats to members of the organisation and community that are endeavouring to bring about peace in the area and fights for the rights of the residents. The community residents have come together to form a collective called Baina Mahila Mandal through which petitions have been sent to relevant bodies. Persons outside of Baina beach have a different picture of the happenings at Baina beach as they are not in touch with the residents and their present experiences but are dependent on skewed media reports and hearsay. Update 2 Happenings at Baina in the light of High Court Order Regarding Eviction/Rehabilitation MEETING WITH D.I.G., GOA POLICE On 16 December 2004, a meeting was held with Mr. Muktesh Chander, D.I.G Goa Police, wherein Arz voiced its concerns regarding the possible fallouts of ill implementation of the High Court Order. Concern was also voiced regarding the fear of causing further victimization of victims in the red light area if forced evictions were carried out without offers of sustainable rehabilitation. The DIG assured that the police would not be a cause for concern in this regard. COMPLAINT OF VICTIM REGARDING THREATS TO LEAVE BY POLICE On the same evening that assurance was provided by the DIG, a prostituted woman in the red light area registered a complaint regarding senior police officers who had visited the red light area threatening her to leave the area forcefully. She had a nine-month-old baby and did not have any family supports to rely on. She reported that she had been asked to board the next mornings train to Andhra Pradesh and leave Goa. Since then, women have not been forcefully asked to leave the red light area and go to other states but Arz and its staff has become the target of police. ROLLING OF VIDEO CAMERA IN THE RED LIGHT AREA BY POLICE On a number of occasions, police officers have been rolling a video camera in the red light area very often aimed at the prostituted women. This has resulted in raising panic in the area amongst women, caused them undue harassment and mental agony. It seems as if this was being done with the purpose of terrorizing the women so as to force them out of the area. After a number of such incidents, women of the Mahila Mandal sent a petition to concerned bodies to request action to stop such unconsented filming by the police. BANDOBAST BY ARMED GUARDS The police have cordoned off the red light area wherein policemen with arms have been placed at various entry points to the area. This has been another effective means for terrorizing the women inside the red light area. No doubt, every year, around Christmas and New Years, police bandobast has been found to be necessary and has been placed effectively without causing terror to the women or harassment to the locals. This year however, the police are posted with arms, have created a near-stop for
