RE: [Goanet] Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views)

2005-04-08 Thread Santosh Helekar
--- Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Comparatively, and for historical and cultural
reasons, all Indian languages are under developed; as
compared to Chinese, Japanese, English and a host
of European languages.


How can Nasci make such a categorical assertion? Has
he done any kind of comparative linguistic analysis?
Has he read the literature of any Indian language?
From my own modest understanding, being able to
converse and write in Konkani and English with the
same amount of facility, I can say with confidence
that there are domains of human experience in which
Konkani is much richer than English.

Cheers,

Santosh



RE: [Goanet]Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views)

2005-04-08 Thread Nasci Caldeira
Dear Fred,
Well said Fred; You have hit the nail on the head!
Then again, why should knowledge of and speaking 'konkani' alone decide: 
'who is a Goan'! Shouldn't Birth, long Domicile and Ancestry by birth, be 
more relevant, more so in today's world, of globalisation and 
computerisation, where minor and not so minor languages are becoming more 
and more 'colloquial only' language entities? Comparatively, and for 
historical and cultural reasons, all Indian languages are under developed; 
as compared to Chinese, Japanese, English and a host of European languages. 
That's the Indian genius, that has let us down!

Why can't a person be proud and claim to be a Goan, irrespective of their 
'fluency' in Konkani??
I am only half fluent in konkani and colloqually only; I will not have any 
one take away theGoanness from me; Its is the red soil of Goa and my genes 
bred from it, which decides it; and not any language fanatics.

Nasci Caldeira
Melbourne
Down Under.
From: Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
To: goanet@goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 00:01:51 +0530 (IST)
Uday Bhembre has written the lead article in Fausto V da Costa's 'Goencho 
Avaz' (Volume I Issue I) that hit the stands in April 2005, under the above 
title (Goans, in Goa and Outside).

Udaybab puts forth some of the well-known arguments of the Konkani lobby 
(particularly the Devanagari camp) in Goa. Some of the points he makes 
includes:

* Goa has one language, but not all Goans accept it. Some
  say Marathi is their mother-tongue, even if they can't
  speak and write it fluently.
* Another type of Goan feels ashamed to speak Konkani.
  After Portuguese attempts to 'foreignise' him, he has
  become half foreign and half Goan. If they were true
  Goans and had tried enough, 43 years after Liberation,
  they would have learnt to speak Konkani. But they're
  not ready to do that.
* Then, there are some Goans who insult Mons. Dalgado
  by campaigning for Romi Konkani under his name.One doesn't
  know if Fr Thomas Stevens' soul is crying or laughing
  by their cause.
Bhembre argues that migratory Goans are of three kinds -- those settled 
within India, those abroad but planning to return sometime, and those who 
have migrated more or less permanently.

Most Goans in the first category, both Hindu and Catholic, live in Mumbai, 
he argues. But Hindu Goans there have become half Maharashtrian while the 
Catholic Goans are half foreign. They lack both unity and a voice in the 
city of Mumbai. Maharashtra government has done little for them. Even Lata 
Mangeshkar calls herself a Maharashtrian. And look at the stereotypes 
that Hindi films project of Goans. There must be a quarter-million Goans in 
Mumbai, but they're voiceless, argues Bhembre.

Gulf Goans have safeguarded their Konkani traditions. But if the 
Sheikh-ocracy gives way to democracy, they might opt to stay on their, and 
it's hard to say what would happen to them then.

Goans in Europe, US and Canada have become pordexi Goenkars, unlikely to 
return back. Their Goanity has got eroded. In the US, the Goan Hindus and 
Catholics have separate organisations. Some years back, Udaybab says, when 
he went to a function at Orlando, US, he found not a single Catholic in the 
meet. It's good that many still cherish their Goan identity, but how much 
Goanity is there left in them?

Uday Bhembre concludes: Goans who migrated to Mangalore and Cochin in the 
16th and 17th century retained their Konkani language, but we don't call 
them Goans. Instead, they're Mangaloreans or Cochinites. For how long will 
the Goans in Europe and the US, who have left their Konkani language and 
culture, will be recognised as Goans?

JUST A COMMENT: The Konkani campaigner's narration of
Goa's linguistic reality often overlooks a number of
ground level realities. For one, the strong Marathi
preference in a section of Goans has more to do with local
caste and community realities -- and also the hardline
nature of Konkani extremism in Goa -- rather than an
illogical position that Udaibab is making it out to be.
Secondly, the difficulty of an expat population in keeping
abrest with their language is a trend affecting many
migrant communities from India (and beyond). It would
obviously affect Goans, an infinitely smaller community
with a far longer tradition of emigration, in a much more
serious way. To say that Goans are ashamed to speak Konkani
is an exercise in myth-making; I think most of those with
a migratory background are simply unable to have fluency
enough to do so... even if they wanted to. It's like arguing
that two Indian computer engineers not carrying out a technical

Re: [Goanet]Goenkar, Goeantle ani Goembhaile (Uday Bhembre's views)

2005-04-07 Thread Gabriel de Figueiredo
 --- Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 
 Uday Bhembre has written the lead article in Fausto
 V da Costa's 'Goencho 
 Avaz' (Volume I Issue I) that hit the stands in
 April 2005, under the 
 above title (Goans, in Goa and Outside).
 
 Goans in Europe, US and Canada have become pordexi
 Goenkars, unlikely to 
 return back. 


I had come in contact with a Goan priest based in
Karachi. He was born and brought up in Karachi, but
yet speaks konkani, though not fluently.  When he was
here in Melbourne on a year's sabbatical at our
parish, we managed a conversation in Konglish at
various times.

However, he was quite critical of the World Goa Day -
his complaint was that World Goa Day does absolutely
nothing for Konkani or Goa. You dance and have a good
time, but the end result is that you come out of the
WGD celebration as ignorant about Goa as you were when
you went in, he said, especially with regards to the
new generation.  

I felt quite embarassed by his views, as I myself am
guilty of not having passed on the languages I learnt
when I was a kid to my progeny - Konkani and
Portuguese.  Though grown up, I try to teach them a
few sentences in both languages now and then, but this
is not true imparting of knowledge as they would not
be able to converse or joke in either.  Mind you, my
Konkani is not the same that is taught in schools in
Goa today. 

I know that there is a large effort in promoting
Konkani in Portugal. Are there any efforts being made
to promote Konkani elsewhere in the world? 

On the other hand, would Goans settled elsewhere in
the world be interested in learning Konkani and
imparting the language and the culture to the next
generation (other than the oft-beaten mando Tambde
Rosam)?

Cheers,

Gabriel de Figueiredo.
Melbourne - Australia.

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