Re: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films
On 5/10/06, Jerry Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : Is it wrong for any priest or bishop to warn its people about something like movies or books that are in the market? When I look back at the old testament, I find that the very first human creation Adam and Eve, the closest to God with all provisions at their disposal, fell for the temptation. They believed the satan and ate the apple. So if they could fall, what about the people with weak faith? What is there for them to fall at the slight pretext? So is it wrong for those shepherds to guide their flock in the right directions? Am so glad that *Adam* and *Eve* ate the apple. Would probably have been running around naked in Eden instead of responding to posts on Goanet. (^-^) Lawrence _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films
--- Gabe Menezes wrote: Madam, I am taken aback by your post but more importantly by the lack of response by the defender of faith...perhaps he has succumbed to your charms, or is seriously courting you, for future moral support reasons. Perhaps it is the writers he has problems with and not the content. He takes issue with certain posters: George, Santosh, Mervyn, Jose and Gabe. It seems that content does not matter, if presnted by the so called gentler sex! --- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Gabe, In life, one is bound to inadvertently insult someone or the other with their thoughts, views or writings. It's important to be loyal to your own values, principles and agendas and then, let the chips fall where they may. Mario adds: Since Gabe makes a habit of sneaky but transparent insinuations while avoiding mentioning the names of his targets - thereby fooling only himself - Goanetters need to know that he is referring to me in his comments above. Apparently he is taken aback that I have not taken Elisabeth to task on a subject that he was holding his breath waiting for me to say something. This is a debate between Elisabeth and Nasci that I have no comment on, to the great disappointmentof Gabe, who has anointed me - falsely as it turns out - a defender of faith. Anyone who follows Goanet regularly would know that I have agreed and disagreed with both Elisabeth and Nasci, and we respectfully agree to disagree as civilised adults should. Goanetters will be amused at the notion that I need to ask for moral support from anyone, after often seeing me single-handedly take on a whole cabal of attackers leading to the appearance of excessive posts, whereas these were individual responses on the same subject by a host of others. Gabe is correct that I have a problem with a specific cabal of posters, whose names may or may not include those Gabe has mentioned. However, he is wrong about the content of their posts. It is their slant and tone as well as the content that often leads me to treat with the special respect they deserve. Gabe's comments above are an excellent example of the kind of slanted tone and content I am talking about. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films
Elisabeth, . Gabe Menezes has taken me to task for not speaking out earlier. I delayed, as I was sort of shell shocked but realised that you did not attack the Faith as such; but only the actions of leaders and the administration, of the past. I also hope this satisfies Gabe, who seems to be pushing the burden on me, in his last post. Sincerely speaking! Nasci Caldeira Melbourne. RESPONSE: Taking you to task ? I have done nothing of the sort, please re-read my post...in which I mentioned that your trust in the defender of the faith was misplaced ! -- DIE DULCI FREURE, DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films
Dear Gabe, In life, one is bound to inadvertently insult someone or the other with their thoughts, views or writings. It's important to be loyal to your own values, principles and agendas and then, let the chips fall where they may. Unless you particularly dislike a poster, you are bound to find some commonality despite divergence of views. You may not agree with their politics but agree with their economics. You may not agree with their religious views but like their general life philosophy. Relationships are always dichotomous in nature. If they were not, they would be boring. I've been welcomed by both sides of the aisles and I hope the warmth lingers like a long summer day for some time to come. Elisabeth RESPONSE: Madam, I am taken aback by your post but more importantly by the lack of response by the defender of faith...perhaps he has succumbed to your charms, or is seriously courting you, for future moral support reasons. Perhaps it is the writers he has problems with and not the content. He takes issue with certain posters: George, Santosh, Mervyn, Jose and Gabe. It seems that content does not matter, if presnted by the so called gentler sex! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films
Elisabeth, My my, you have surely shown that you need to be blessed by the Holy Spirit! To recieve His Blessing or more likely, 'to recieve the Holy Spirit' all you have to do is to surrender your 'evil' thoughts and outbursts; and seek forgiveness and His abundant Blessings will heal you, and He shall come unto you, and you will have been saved! If I was anywhere near you, I surely would try and heal you myself? You do need 'Healing' very badly. Go for it; do not feel shy. Do you really think that Ivan Cardinal Dias, Archbishop of Mumbai, has to discourse on past mistakes etc, from the world Church, like those you seem to be obsessed with, everytime he talks to his flock?? The answer is 'NO'. Is a Church leader not obliged to protect the present day Church, from fabricated tales and lies and from fiction oriented in an indirect cowardly attack, on the principles and values of the Faith that the Church is built on?? The Pope has spoken thus, as also Cardinal Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, and several others. We have only heard of and from Cardinal Dias on goanet; and Cardinal Dias has spoken of 'heresy' and malafides depicted in fiction, and in Indian films, as genuine concerns for Indian Christians. He has not involved the Church in any controversies with other religions or cast aspersions against them, like may be I do sometimes. He is diong the right thing! So let go, please! There is nothing wrong with that! I would enciurage the Church in India and everywhere, to speak out more often, and encourage dialogue and consultation before further damage is done. I know these 'attacks' are not coming from the good Hindu or Muslim people; but carefully disguised and thrashed out by the likes of VHP and Sangh Parivar and supported by The RSS and the BJP groups. The VHP which purports to and trying to represent the Hindus, (of course self appointed) is confused as to what they are really representing and if they are actually representing anyone; and this is the reason why these organisations shun dialogue; these are just not competent and so have to resort to verbal, film and other terror like activities. Cardinal Dias' words: It's just a circular from the Shepard to his Flock. That is what he is appointed to his position for. He is a Prince of the Church, and does not deserve foul mouthing from you or anyone, more so in this case! I think you should apologise for incriminating Cardinal Dias with past mischief in the world wide Church. Satan has been busy since time immemorial. Thou shall not help him! Gabe Menezes has taken me to task for not speaking out earlier. I delayed, as I was sort of shell shocked but realised that you did not attack the Faith as such; but only the actions of leaders and the administration, of the past. I also hope this satisfies Gabe, who seems to be pushing the burden on me, in his last post. Sincerely speaking! Nasci Caldeira Melbourne. Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 00:19:07 -0400 I really love it when the Catholic Church talks about distortion of facts by evil people and how we should all pray for them. What about Gospels that existed alongside the four that we know off, like the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Judas which never saw the light of day because they didn't fit in with their theology. And when all else fails let's not forget blind faith for none shall be so bold as to put their doubting fingers into the palms of Christ and question the Catholic Church on issues, on theology or on history. Etc Etc! _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films
On 04/05/06, Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really love it when the Catholic Church talks about distortion of facts by evil people and how we should all pray for them. What about 2000 years of distortion by the Church. Let's talk about an evil Pope who made Mary Magdalene to be a prostitute when we now know that if the ministry of Jesus existed, she probably was a rich patron who played a dominant role. What about Gospels that existed alongside the four that we know off, like the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Judas which never saw the light of day because they didn't fit in with their theology. What about scrolls found at Nag Hamadi written by Gnostics, a sect of Christianity probably persecuted and driven to extinction by mainstream Christians of the time. What about centuries of manipulation of theology by Popes and Bishops and Cardinals that conveniently created Virgin births and Holy Spirits to explain away loopholes in the gospels. RESPONSE: Madam, I am taken aback by your post but more importantly by the lack of response by the defender of faith...perhaps he has succumbed to your charms, or is seriously courting you, for future moral support reasons. Perhaps it is the writers he has problems with and not the content. He takes issue with certain posters: George, Santosh, Mervyn, Jose and Gabe. It seems that content does not matter, if presnted by the so called gentler sex! Both Nasci Caldeira and Joseph Fernandes, can now reflect on their misplaced trust in the waverer! Hope you find answers to your questions in the following :- The Da Vinci Code: The Facts Behind The Fiction by Bob Waldrep http://www.apologeticsindex.org/d50aa.html http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/reflect-lit/davincicode.htm http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1755189,00.html http://www.irr.org/da-vinci-code.html http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=7017 -- DIE DULCI FREURE, DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Elizabeth A short answer to your powerfully worded pertinent questions below, might be that the Catholic Church, like most other churches, is a business first and foremost. The centrality of its business lies in exploiting human frailities, fears and uncertainties, well laced with some dubious spirituality. Through this process, it has become internationally, one of the richest successful businesses ever known with a massive clientele. Notwithstanding the view above, I absolutely insist in respecting and not deriding sincere believers in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Sadly however, the Church has many sordid appendages to its history. This includes, in Goa, its close historic association with the hegemonic evil of caste practice. Priesthood in earlier times was significantly caste-based as historical records, in my possession, clearly illustrate. Further, social and political control within the Church, from the 'upper' caste echelons has continued to reflect this policy to this day. If this is not true, hopefully, the Archbishop of Goa (or his entourage) will rush to refute this proposition by drawing from his personal knowledge and experience. Cornel - Original Message - From: Elisabeth Carvalho Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:19 AM Subject: [Goanet] Re: Cardinal Dias Deplores Anti-Christian Films I really love it when the Catholic Church talks about distortion of facts by evil people and how we should all pray for them. What about 2000 years of distortion by the Church? Let's talk about an evil Pope who made MaryMagdalene to be a prostitute when we now know that if the ministry of Jesus existed, she probably was a rich patron who played a dominant role. What about Gospels that existed alongside the four that we know off, like the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Judas which never saw the light of day because they didn't fit in with their theology. What about scrolls found at Nag Hamadi written by Gnostics, a sect of Christianity probably persecuted and driven to extinction by mainstream Christians of the time. What about centuries of manipulation of theology by Popes and Bishops and Cardinals that conveniently created Virgin births and Holy Spirits to explain away loopholes in the gospels? And when all else fails let's not forget blind faith for none shall be so bold as to put their doubting fingers into the palms of Christ and question the Catholic Church on issues, on theology or on history. Ofcourse, as Cardinal Dias states, more things are wrought by prayer than the world can dream off, like tsunamis and earthquakes and genocides and famines.Let's not forget that God has a plan for every natural disaster victim because ofcourse there was something wrong with the original plan of him spending the rest of his life with his loved ones. The Catholic Church can easily put Mafia Dons to shame when it comes to spiritual extortion and Stalin had nothing on totalitarian regimes and towing the party line when compared to the Catholic Church. Enough! At least Dan Brown's novel is labeled fiction. What has the Church been pedaling all these years? Elisabeth _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
