Re: [Goanet] Secular initiative
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 04:03 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Vivek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] Secular initiative-- vidyadhar gadgil Was rather surprised by this message and also unclear as to exactly what is being said. Anyway, some clarifications: Following the Curchorem riots a white paper was released by a fact finding committee and the report was circulated over the internet. This report had been discussed in detail on this mailgroup and in other forums, including Goa's newspapers. This comment comes a good three months after the fact-finding committee's report. The paper was full of biased half truths as well as pure lies and would only serve to vitita ethe atmosphere further. Such as? Please be specific. I personally found the report to be an unflinching look at the systematic communal mobilisation in Goa which led up to the communal violence in Curchorem-Sanvordem. This opinion was shared by many in Goa who wrote about their opinion in the newspapers and on the internet. The Milli council is a known fundamentalist organization with ties with the SIMI , a muslim terrorist group believed to be involved for the recent bombay blasts. I hold no brief for the Milli council, not knowing anything about them. My concern is with the report, which was very interesting, and while you may not agree with it, it would be useful if you were to come up with specific criticisms rather than this kind of scatter-gun condemnation. Reminds me of our ex-CM, who actually demanded in a press conference that those who prepared the report should be prosecuted (rather than the people who perpetrated the communal violence). Talk about shooting the messenger! And finally, what does this report and any criticisms of it have to do with the workshop on combatting communalism that is being organised? What is the point of dragging this issue into your arguments on this topic? Now a peace initiative is being organised. people like Rohit Prajapati and PUCL are a front for the certain elements in society who are anti any thing hindu. ??? PUCL is one of the most renowned human rights organisations in India with an enviable track record. For further information on the resource persons for this workshop, google for any of their names and find out for yourself, you will see that they have impeccable secular credentials. Who are these 'certain elements' who are anti-anything Hindu? What are you talking about? Is working for secular values in India equivalent in your opinion to being anti-Hindu? This kind of bluster sounds suspiciously like the usual tricks of the Sangh Parivar in their attempts to discredit secular intiatives. We must understand that any body who stands up to the BJP/RSS and calls them fascist doesnt automatically become a progressive.These people have a hidden agenda of their own and must be exposed at every step. This gets weirder and weirder. Hidden agenda? What's that, please be specific. The agenda is clear and out in the open -- working for a more secular India and Goa. i would enthusiastically support a peace initiative by Goans who know a lot more about the state and its culture than these career secularists. Ah-ha, the same hoary argument. 'Outsiders' should not comment about Goa or anything Goan? Such arguments are so ridiculous that I will not bother to answer them. You cannot always deflect every issue by screaming 'outsider'. Please do not support these initiatives. I request all concerned people to ignore such messages. Let us work together to combat commnualism in Goa. The programme for the workshop is out in the open, information about the resource persons is freely available. Those involved with organising the workshop are known to many of you. -Vivek Unlike this person, who has not even done us the courtesy of properly identifying himself. Could you please identify yourself, Mr. Vivek, if that's your real name? -- Question everything -- Karl Marx ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Fort Aguada: A Perfect Monsoon Destination - Album by Rajtilak Naik
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Fort Aguada: A Perfect Monsoon Destination - Album by Rajtilak Naik July 26, 2006 Goa, a former Portuguese colony, is known not only for its world-famous beaches but also for its historical Forts. Monsoon being the off season in Goa, you will still find the Goan Forts going full with tourists from all over the world. Fort of Aguada is situated in the north of Goa, around 18 kms from Panaji. The Fort of Aguada was built in 1612 by the Portuguese to control the entry of the enemy into River Mandovi and to protect Old Goa from attacks. Excellent Pics check out... : http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=24468n_tit=Fort%20Aguada% 3A%20A%20Perfect%20Monsoon%20Destination%20%2D%20Album%20by%20Rajtilak%20Nai k Forwarded By Edward Verdes ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing Bigotry
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With reference to Santosh's writing, I have not come across any that make personal reference of such a nature or derogatory references to any religion, other then in the course of theological debate. Are we so thin-skinned that we cannot tolerate any commentary on our religion? What does that say about us? . Hi Elisabeth: To know the abuse perpetuated by Santosh, you need to review the archives, before you venture to speak on behalf of him. I am not sure, if he also has you on his cc/bcc list, which once was accidentally published on this forum, wherein he was garnering support from Goanetters. There are members he attacked who left in sheer disgust, or felt uncomfortable to confront him because of his ridiculing religion and religious. You are probably new to this forum (as well as are those who recently joined). Here are just a couple examples of his postings. http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2003-July/003514.html Heres a post by ROHIT, and Santosh Helekars rebuttal: On Wed Jun 19, 2002 - santoshhelekar Chimbelcho at a... writes: Subject: Re: [Goanet] re: Canonization Rohit Satyamevajayate2 wrote: Now, if you guys like to hoist yourself on the pedestal of rationalism, go ahead. Leave the Catholic Church alone! Your cheap potshots at the Catholic Church speak more about your intellectual and spiritual bankruptcy than a faith and tradition that is more than 2000 years old. And the forces of evil shall not overcome it. Rohit. In response SANTOSH HELEKAR wrote ridiculing Rohit on GoaNet: Dear Bhatcar Satyamevajayate, Thanks for your email. We have already filed for protection in the bankruptcy court. If you are asking for donation for a religious cause, we have no money to contribute in your pot-shot. We can only provide you moral saapport against the forces of evil. These evildoers have to be punished. We can send Forsu to hoist your flag on a pole. He cannot hoist it on the pedestal because both pedestals of his cycle are broken. Forsu charges Rs. 25 for this job. You will have to pay the money. We are bankrupt. Please give him Rs. 50. We want Rs. 25 for eating. Forsu will meet you near the Catholic church alone. 2000 years old? No, it is only 200 years old. Regarding rationalism, our society is closed. All ration cards have expired. You cannot do tradition on our stock market right now. You can only play motko in Bosteaoanchem bar. You can also drink a lot of spiritual drinks there. You can become an intellectual after drinking spiritual drinks. Yours faithfully, President Pandurang Fernandes Dhovi Khopti Independent Republic of Chimbel .. There are many posts of this nature wherein Santosh has resorted to name calling such as: net-pope and net-mullah and his attacks have gone unabated. Now, can Goanet allow the same courtesy for people to defend themselves on the net? Or do we suggest an all out attack on religion on this forum, (irrespective of religious followings,) while the rest remain (or be held) captive and silent spectators to such spectacles? I see that you did not answer the following question: Dont people who are intolerant of religion (or religious beliefs of others) fall under the definition of Bigots? Assuming that some hold the view of being intolerant to religion, it can be presumed that such individuals will continue supporting such stuff on the forum. Regards, Joe Vaz _ Who will win Bollywoods most coveted IIFA awards? You decide! Cast your vote! http://server1.msn.co.in/sp06/IIFA2006/static/weekend.asp ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet vs Secular Goanet ?
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com I hold much respect for Santosh Helecar and most of his views (except for his excessive and almost fanatical faith in 'Science'). But in this case, it seems that he is veering the debate in a direction of his choice by using terms such as Christian and secular, as if these are two polar opposites or the only options available! Excuse me, but there are a wide range of options between a Christian Goanet and a secular one. Which of these roads would be suitable? * A bigoted Goanet, with a lot of hate-speech towards certain (read: Hindu, Muslim, godless atheists, unsure agnostics, cafetaria Catholics ... anyone who is not present in sufficiently strong or vociferous numbers) beliefs, philosophies, and ideologies. * A Goanet which is neutral towards all religions, philosophies and ideologies. * A Goanet which is neutral towards all, *and* allows criticism of no ideology, philosophy and ideology. * A Goanet which is neutral towards all, and allows non-insulting, non-offensive and polite questioning, criticism or debate of any idea -- howsoever closely these may be connected with an ideology, philosophy and religion. * A Goanet that adopts an anything-goes policy and allows hate-speech, insult-trading and offensive postings towards one and all. From the labels used above (which, I agree, are not wholly value-free) you know my own biases! We also need to be careful while making our point, since a point made with bitterness leaves a bad taste in the mouth... and a potential flame-war for Goanet Admin to douse (and be called 'censors' for attempting to do that!) We have seen debates degenerate to a very acute case of name-calling and insult-trading in the past, and thanks to the Elisabeth Carvalhos and the Aristos (not to be confused with the Ariostos!) and our other new members who have been doing a good job of debating ideas, rather than trading in insults. My personal belief is that it is the ideology of Last Wordism (put simply, the last word belongs to me... I must have my say) that could well spell the death of Goanet as we know it. Please be gracious in knowing when to simply stop replying to a debate that goes on, and on, and on... FN On 27/07/06, Vivian D'Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Knowing you, surely you jest Santosh ? (Pardon me if I am out of context here, as I have been travelling and have been away from this forum for a while). Though I guess there are some Kooks who are so wrapped up in their religious beliefs who might want such a thing Let's stay secular. I would like Goans of all religious persuasions or none at all to participte in this forum. Perhaps then, we could bring more balance to this forum. There are some folks, who think that being a Goan is synonymous with being a Catholic, and everyone else is a non-Goan. Rip Van Winkle is still asleep. -- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 4000+ copylefted photos to share from Goa http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/ ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Myths about ancient and modern societies (Gilbert Lawrence)
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com --- velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr Helekar do you accept that many many people(a very significant portion worldwide) are happier and more content with their lives because of organised religion/written codes. If not...please list ur reasons.( A Yes or No answer to a specific question) Yes. Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Of Castes, Religion and Gulf Goans
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com --- velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Helekar, your past views on this forum(and through some debates on this list a long time ago when I was a teenager) have influenced me greatly and I count you as one of the most balanced and intelligent individuals I have ever come across, but you have to stop denigrating organised religion and its followers( whatever way you look at it word like mob/herd mentality even if true are hurtful). For the record I am an atheist myself. Dear Sunith, Thanks for your kind words. Regarding denigration and the mob/herd mentality reference, please do not be misled by other people's characterization of my writings. The mob/herd reference was made in connection with a general distinction between an unorganized individual and an organized group, religious or otherwise. My views about religion have not changed at all over the last 30 years. I have always maintained that there is good and bad in all religions, and that most people need it for their psychological well being. Indeed, I have always spoken against the elimination of religion from our society, when people have made such suggestions in this forum in the past. Finally, for the record I am not an atheist - never been one. Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] [goans_tanzanite] VIVA GOA -2006 TORONTO , CANADA.
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Rene, I have to agree with Steve on this one, since GOA Toronto socials are always advertized for free on community e-group sites, mailing lists and their social events ticket sales take place at other community social functions and events without any issues, since they are all community events and in the spirit of so called 'Goan Unity' and are considered 'non-profit'. However this is not the case when a community requires to do the same at a GOA Venue ( its all about $$$ ) Brendan (In the Spirit Of Goan Unity) --- S Desouza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GOA 2006 committee have objected to having Tanzanite Dance flyers at the entrance as it conflicts with their objectives. I do believe my Tanzanite Committee is doing all that they can to promote the dance and as the ex-Tanzanians are undergoing changes we are mindful that our numbers are dwindling. Having said that I do not believe that VIVA Goa is the forum to meet as it is a GOA event. Stephen de Souza | 760 Hurondale Drive | Mississauga | Ontario | L5C 4N8 | Phone: 905.277.8170| Fax: 905.276.0741 From: r.barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goans_Tanzanite [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [goans_tanzanite] VIVA GOA -2006 TORONTO , CANADA. Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:36:25 -0700 (PDT) 00 I have a suggestion to make to the Tanzanite Goans in Toronto Viisting VIVA GOA event on the 29th July , 2006. Tanzanite Goans should try and organise a meeting point - at this event. A meeting point for the visiting Tanzanite Goans to meet up with the local and others too. - The Goanetters have organised a meeting place - I am sure Mervyn / Brendan could help us out - there. I believe that the Tanzanite committee in Canada need your support - they need your support for their annual dance they are organising in October 2006. - Stephen - Leslie - Mervyn and Brendan - and others - can you let us have your suggestion / thoughts - on a MEETING PLACE .. rene 000 ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Clarifications regarding desirable practices
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com RKN, Many thanks for an excellent quote. Cornel - Original Message - From: Radhakrishnan Nair [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: goanet@goanet.org Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Clarifications regarding desirable practices Cornel wrote: He also always wants the last word and cannot graciously end a discussion like most others will. That reminds me of a quote from Lord Chesterfield(?) : Conversation is like love affairs. Any fool can start it, but it takes great skill to end it graciously! Cheers, RKN ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Calling Melinda Chandrashekhar
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Would Melinda and Chandrashekhar pls get in touch, at: valmikif at gmail.com This is about an initiative on road deaths, with youth in Salcete/Mormugao colleges. -Valmiki ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing Bigotry
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com I tend to agree, to disagree. (Elisabeth, this is NOT a personal attack but just a disagreement) I think it is unnecessarily dividing Goanet along communal lines I disagree. I think Goanet is dividing on the basis of my people, your people, our people, their people etc. We may think that there is no hidden agenda behind words like my people. These type of categories are embedded in our sub-conscious and they are the primary source of discriminative action reactions, mostly hurting less fortunate weak people. These type of categories in our sub-conscious mind creates so-called 'superior people' and 'inferior people'. In fact, it is just an illusion and we may even spend most our life living in these type of illusions. I think, apart from you two, Aristo, myself and Elizabeth, and indeed others have come to this same point of view. On Goanet, statement like above may appear to be like a mob culture. Cip -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Elisabeth Carvalho Sent: 26 July 2006 23:40 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing Bigotry Dear Joe, Goanet is not Thomas Moore's Utopia. It's a microcosm of the world that we live in. I have no doubt that Hindu fundamentalists, Muslim fanatics and Christian bigots lurk in the corridors of Goanet. Frankly, I was a little appalled that not many Christians with their rock solid code of conduct called on Nasci when he specifically referred to some posters as uncivilised Hindu pagans. Frankly I was aghast. If someone had called Christians, ungodly or uncivilised, then I'd be furious and I'd call them on it. With reference to Santosh's writing, I have not come across any that make personal reference of such a nature or derogatory references to any religion, other then in the course of theological debate. Are we so thin-skinned that we cannot tolerate any commentary on our religion? What does that say about us? This will be my last post on this subject. I think it is unnecessarily dividing Goanet along communal lines and if we as civilised people cannot get past our religious sensitivities, than I see little hope for the world at large. I enjoy your posts and I hope this disagreement will not deter us for sharing other views that we have in common. Elisabeth -- --- Joe Vaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elisabeth: 1. Do we have Hindu fundamentalists, Muslim fanatics and Christian bigots on Goanet? Can you name them so at least we all know who they are? Then you can gladly proceed to do the bashing of all those fanatics and bigots albeit (with ferocity and condescension). :-) 2. Dont people who are intolerant of religion (or religious beliefs of others) fall under the definition of Bigots? Joe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] We, you and I, have become cannon fodder
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Mario queries: Here are two specific propositions that I predict the learned professor will dodge, or at least try to: a) If Hamas and Hezbollah put down their arms tomorrow and accept Israel's right to exist, peace will follow in the region. If Israel puts down their arms tomorrow, will there be peace? My query: Why should Hamas and Hezbollah put down their arms? In case you've forgotten it, Israel stole their country. b) If the Iraqi insurgents would put down their arms tomorrow, peace would follow in Iraq. That will be the peace of the graveyard. If the US withdraws from Iraq tomorrow, will there be peace? No idea, but Iraq was pretty peaceful before the Americans landed there with their coalition of the willing! Come off it, Mario! We've had enough. Regards, RKN ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet?
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com --- Goa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Elisabeth, As a matter of interest, curios to know: Who are so-called 'my people'?, Who are NOT 'my people'?, How do you discern and draw this imaginary dividing line?, Is it worth dividing as - 'my people' and 'NOT my people'?, ...and just wondering whether I am included in the 'my people' or 'NOT my people' category? Just curios! Cip -- Nasci responds: Hey 'Goa'; do you not think that you should first make yourself known to goanetters properly by giving your full name and place from where you are residing and writing from?? Then may be, me too can classify you; if you are my people or not my people. Come oh, do not feel shy! Doesn't matter, as long as your give us your true identity. Nasci Caldeira Maelbourne That's in Australia! Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Dr Helekars challenge..and marios response
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com --- Vivek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a welcome change from some who can see only the bad things in Hindusim like the caste system ,whose hearts bleed for the kunbis and who can detail every torture in the manusmrirti yet are oblivious to the horrors of the inquisition since no proof exists. --- Nasci responds: Vivek, U have yet failed to reveal your tru ID, inspite of my asking you for it. But inspite of it please read below, and then stop blowing your hollow trumpet in the wind! Remember? the CASTE SYSTEM in India has oppressed billions of people, and kept them under wraps and misery for so many centuries, and still continues unabated and unchallenged! HOW can YOU JUSTIFY THIS?? In contrast, the Inquisition that you talk about happened only for a few years, and happened during a certain limited period of a colonial power's regime. That has since stopped completely; and dos not happen today! But CASTEISM does! Can you say this of Casteism and of the Hindu upper class's 'like Evils' and worse than the Inquisition?? in this democratic regime of the people, by the upper Caste and for the better benefit of the High Caste only, and 'reserving' the Crumbs for the unfortunate lowly? I know you are not able to give a good positive answer to this ; so please go and do repentance and serve the 'harijans' and feed and clothe them, and wash their feet, in token respect for them. WILL YOU? Nasci Caldeira Down Under in Melbourne. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Myths about ancient and modern societies
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Hi Gilbert You seem to have a rather simplistic view of exactly what is going on in contemporary Western societies including the USA where you have chosen to live. You also want to contrast and compare the USA and India of over 100 years ago. I simply ask what for? What do you hope to discover? Do you want us to say that India was infinitely more virtuous than the USA is today? Would this not be axiomatic perhaps? Have you never read about social change in society? Most generations moan that their traditional values are being eroded by the young of 'today' and you are therefore not an exception. Indeed, there is a beautiful song about this theme with excellent lyrics. Hopefully, a generous Goanetter might obtain this song to help you calm your nerves. Gabe, any offers? So let us explore this issue a little by seeing how much social change is taking place and whether there is a danger one might be viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses. I will use the UK to base my argument. However, it is not terribly different from the USA and many parts of the developed world, and elsewhere, where older people seem unduly worried about things going on around them that they neither comprehend nor understand. Those coming into Western countries from more traditional societies (Gilbert as an example) may indeed find the social scene much harder to cope with than those raised in those societies. Gilbert has provided a list with 15 headings which I will try to address. However, I do not have much time to spend on things worrying Gilbert because I have better things to do! But as I increasingly perceive Gilbert's Goanet posts as though from a rather worried man, I, in a humble christian and humanist spirit, hope to help this God fearing and sometimes rather uncompassionate Christian Goan who seems unduly troubled in America. Unfortunately, I will have to rush my response and compress some of Gilbert's points where possible. Also, I am not sure I will be able to address all 15 points for lack of time. 1. Divorce rates, 2) single family homes, 3) unwed teenage mothers: In the past, the social mores generally meant that men went out to work. They were breadwinners in the traditional family and their wives, even if reasonably educated, tended to mange the home and children on the husband's income -- if and when they received it from the husband! The wife also kept the man in a state of good repair! Not to do so would risk illness etc and endanger the sole family income. This state of affairs was often referred to as the nuclear family. Gradually, with more education available to women, they also went to work outside the home and supplemented the family income. A double income became valuable for consumer durables which were increasingly taken for granted and boosted economic production. Today, in many countries, women are excelling in the consumption of education compared to men. Women's employment is also increasing faster than for men for a variety of technological reasons including the reduction of heavy manual labour in which many men were previously engaged. Women have also, for the first time historically, been able to take personal decisions on the control of their fertility through access to the pill etc. In such circumstances, economic issues through education and work, have influenced social change. The passing of time also means change whether we like it or not. Far from needing marriage as a career, women have been able to decide their own economic and social trajectories. Some choose to remain single, others to have no children and indeed others choose the new nuclear family of mother and child/children minus the man! In many ways, a man has become relatively redundant, and for some women, a male is a burden in a relationship especially if unemployed, a drunk, or a waster that they would rather not do with for perfectly sensible and pragmatic reasons. Re divorce: Increased economic independence appears to lead to greater divorce and women are more likely to initiate divorce then men. This does not mean that, ipsofacto, divorce is necessarily a bad thing as Gilbert is inclined to think. While in the past, couples stayed together, for a variety of reasons even thought the marriage bond had become an empty shell or had evaporated, today, happiness in another relationship is perfectly acceptable socially. While there is a lot of divorce, there is also a lot of re-marriage. Indeed marriage/ commitment to a partner is surprisingly popular. True, divorce can cause
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing Bigotry
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com I would like to thank the Joe Vaz character for copying and pasting one of my President Pandurang Fernandes posts. I hope he posts all the Pandurang posts once again. It would give people an idea of what this Joe regards as ridiculing other people's religious beliefs. They would be able to decide for themselves whether the problem lies with me or with Joe Vaz. Cheers, Santosh P.S. Regarding his bogus charge that I have cced or bcced Elisabeth, I have done no such thing. --- Joe Vaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] copied and pasted: Dear Bhatcar Satyamevajayate, Thanks for your email. We have already filed for protection in the bankruptcy court. If you are asking for donation for a religious cause, we have no money to contribute in your pot-shot. We can only provide you moral saapport against the forces of evil. These evildoers have to be punished. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Of Castes, Religion and Gulf Goans
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Dear Sunnith, I'm sorry my posts have offended you but I remain unapologetic for them. I'll try to respond to your interpretations of my posts: --- velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SUNNITH: Elisabeth Caravalho in her latest post regarding caste and the contribution of the Gulf Diaspora, launches a tirade against Bammons that is totally unwarranted and borders on xenophobia. In one of her previous post she even goes to the extent of saying she is happy she was born and brought up in the gulf and that she experienced some sort of caste discrimination in Goa. RESPONSE: Xenophobic about Bammons? You jest! I wouldn't be able to tell one, if one bit me on my leg. Incidentally, one did and I married him. Luckily for me, he is as oblivious of his caste status as I am, save for occasionally being reminded by some aging aunt or uncle, both on his side and mine. SUNNITH: Also by your logic it seems the best way to oppose caste discrimination in Goa is for a person to go to the Gulf and then to the US, UK, Canada so that he/she can then send their foreign born, brought up, educated, non Konkani(?) speaking children to mingle with the so called elite children of the higher castes. This logic seems completely warped. You want to fight elitism by pretending to be elite yourself? RESPONSE: For a person of my caste, it was far better to be raised in the Gulf than in Goa. My parents were what one would call today, educated professionals. One was an accountant, the other a nurse. They both spoke fluent English, Konkanni and Portuguese. Yet their opportunities in Goa will zilch to zero, made worse by the burden of my father's caste. My father's first paycheck was Rs100 working in a mine. They were not landed gentry, they didn't inherit bhats, they didn't have access to good jobs and for all purposes my father was like a second class citizens in Goa. I had the opportunity to go to a good school, to travel widely, to grow up with a cosmopolitan mindset. My father had the opportunity to create the type of wealth unimaginable within one generation in Goa, and this in turn opened doors of opportunity for us in Goa, which until then had remained firmly closed. Which life would you rather he have chosen for his children? SUNNITH: I would think the best way to fight this discrimination in today's day and age would be to empower yourself first economically( in India or abroad) and then politically (like many members of today's BJP in Goa). RESPONSE: You've obviously missed the subsequent posts I've written, where I suggest just that. That economic parity is one way to combat casteism. I further go on to say that the caste issue is diminishing in Goa (although I am told that it is not), and in my fourth post, I state precisely what you state which is that economic disparity is the new casteism and that some form of discrimination exists in all societies. SUNNITH: In the case of Gulf Goans that would mean returning to Goa after making their money and involving themselves in entrepreneural and social initiatives, not making a beeline for the West thus leaving Taxi drivers and STD booth owners as their representatives here in Goa.( With all due respect to all to the many Gulf Goans who have come back and are contributing grea tly to t he betterment of Goa.) RESPONSE: I have no suggestions for what the Gulf Goan should do. I leave that to his individual discretion. SUNNITH: As most Goan Catholics living in Goa will tell you, caste based discrimination has long been replaced by a new form of economic discrimination that is present in most societies all over the world. The caste issue is simply not one of the major issues affecting Goan society today. RESPONSE: I've made that point already. Elisabeth --- __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Of Castes, Religion and Gulf Goans
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com From now on one will need to seek Disclosure rules or Truth in advertising from Goanetters pushing a point of view. Kind Regards, GL Santosh Dear Sunith, Thanks for your kind words. Finally, for the record I am not an atheist - never been one. --- velho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Helekar, your past views on this forum(and through some debates on this list a long time ago when I was a teenager) have influenced me greatly and I count you as one of the most balanced and intelligent individuals I have ever come across For the record I am an atheist myself. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] George Menezes
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com I have heard so much recently about this person called George Menezes. However, he once visited the UK and wrote some pretty half-digested things in Goa Today on his return which I explain below. And is he not the same person who had a regular lightweight piece titled something like As a mater of Factly also in the Goan Voice? I used to take that magazine regularly for several years and even had some of my articles published in it. I had thus come across George Menezes years ago. On his return to Goa from his visit to the UK several years ago, he wrote about the London Goans in a pretty derisory manner. His derision largely centred on his contention that the Goans in London were largely focusing their energies on the West Indians as competitors for housing, jobs etc. Unfortunately, he could not have been more wrong on this point. As a long time Londoner and teaching at degree level at a university on race relations/issues, I knew about this field rather well. Because the West Indians arrived in London well before the Indian population from the sub-continent, and there was the subsequent entry of the Goans mainly from East Africa, the residential patterns had become rather distinctive by geographical area at that stage. Further, the jobs undertaken by the Goans from East Africa in the main, and by the West Indians, followed quite different trajectories on the whole in Greater London. Indeed, my young daughter of about 13 at the time, was sufficiently incensed by George's ill- informed article that she took issue with him in correspondence in the Goan Voice. There was no email at the time. Regrettably, in his reply, George was unable to admit he was wrong but only blathered that my daughter was of tender years at the time and could not be very knowledgeable. Has he changed so radically? Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. - Original Message - From: Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet] George Menezes Leonard Saldanha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: George Menezes' contributions are always precise,and articulates in his = own inimitable way social shortcomings. Always an interesting read. Keep them coming. L J Saldanha, I agree with you.The man has a style of his own, has a great command of the language and keeps the reader on the edge from the first to last word. Keep them coming, George Menezes. Keep them coming. Mervyn3.0 ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Debate between Mario G and Elizabeth C re atheists
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com --- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Mario, With all due respect, what do the atheists on Goanet have to do with Manmohan Singh. Are they guilty of something else, I am unaware off, besides running around naked, being promiscuous and generally not sharing in your rock solid code of conduct? I take it you like painting a lot. It pays to change the brush now and then. Elisabeth, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you must have been getting pooped on by your baby while reading what I had posted:-)) I see you have become a knee-jerk defender of atheists whether they need defending or not:-)) If you had not been distracted while reading my post you would not have embarrassed yourself by unnecessarily dashing to the defense of atheists, whom you have now publicly insulted and abused as people ...running around naked, being promiscuous and generally not sharing in your rock solid code of conduct? However, since you are such a staunch defender of the atheist faith, they will give you a pass, whereas if I had said the same thing they would be foaming at the mouth by now and threatening me with a defamation lawsuit:-)) Let's read what I said again together, slowly. Here's what I said, With all due respect to the numerous atheists that infest Goanet, thank God Manmohan Singh was able to rescue India. Do you see now that I was asking the indulgence of our atheist friends for my public thanks to God for Manmohan Singh's economic rescue of India? It had nothing to do with your guilty conscience on behalf of all atheists. BTW, you seem to have misunderstood the raging debate because, unlike your intellectual icon, I don't think you would deliberately misrepresent my position, would you? [Memo to Bosco: See, my command of English didn't work with Elisabeth either.] All I have said about the moral code of unorganized individual atheists is that no one knows exactly what it might be in each case, unless they get arrested, and so, no UNIVERSAL, UNCONDITIONAL equivalency can be glibly made with highly developed and published moral codes that are subscribed to by members of morally based organizations. Why? Because everyone can see what those are. I hope you finally get the nuance that seems to have eluded so many of you so far. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rock solid Christian moral code and Bosco
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com --- Bosco D'Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gilbert, You had another opportunity to list your Rock Solid Moral Code. You failed. Mario observes: What is the matter with Bosco? How do you deal with someone who has supposedly followed this thread but still doesn't know that this is not about any one rock solid moral code? How do you deal with someone who falsely continues to deny that the rock solid Christian moral code as well as Sai Baba's have been listed and detailed several times in this debate? Didn't Bosco once defensively say that listing the Ten Commandments was of no use because most Christians did not know what they were? Then, to my amazement, he turns around and again demands that the Ten Commandments be listed? Here, Bosco, once again for the nth time: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c4.htm Knock yourself out. Bosco writes: First you wiggled out saying its not about the Christian moral code (just like Mario), then you said its not about the list but about the enforcement by soceity. Mario observes: Here we go again. How does one wiggle out of something one has never said? Here we see Bosco trying to re-define a debate that has been going on for weeks, without apparently understanding a word we have said. Bosco writes: I'll give you your correction, that you and Mario are inherently supporting the view that TRUE followers of specific religions, are MORE LIKELY TO BE morally superior to Atheists and Agnostics. Mario observes: No, I am not supporting this view at all. You have apparently ignored everything I have written and are trying to put YOUR words in my posts. Let's see if I can simplify this for you. This is a summary of what I have said all along: a) We KNOW the codes of morally based groups. b) Their members have accepted these codes by being members. c) Just because some members violate the codes from time to time does not invalidate the codes themselves, or make them fake in Santosh's hostile insinuation. c) ATHEISTS MAY HAVE GOOD, OR EVEN BETTER CODES THAN RELIGIONS. [Memo to other readers: Excuse the emphasis but this is to make it harder for Bosco to wiggle out of:-))] d) When it comes to unorganized individual atheists, we have no way of knowing what moral code they have adopted or are following or not following. e) That's it. In a nutshell that I'd like to see you wiggle out of, though I know you'll try. Bosco writes: And I'll say - FALSE. You are wrong to take that ARROGANT stand. And that is the root of what I'm contesting. Mario responds: Are you the modern re-incarnation of Don Quixote? You create an ARROGANT stand where there is none, then label it FALSE. You seem caught in a steel trap of pre-conceived notions about this thread, read carefully and slowly my points a) through e) above and let me know what you find that is either ARROGANT or FALSE about what I have said. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Apparently we have spokespersons
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com For a change, the religion-bashers are on the run! I picture the movie the Lion-King, which I've watched a zillion times with my grand-daughter. The hyenas have been laughing, making fun at the order in the Lion's kingdom on the Serangetti plain. Your post has those laughs listed. Then the lion rises and once he is on the roll, the cabal are on the run, covering each other's rear end, and screaming we are being victimized. Great Sunday entertainment. First it is no disrespect to religion. Then it is the disrespect which needs protection from censorship. Now it's, we are victimized because we are not permitted to use religious parody. Since when did Goanet become a bulletin board on religion parody or English literature? Kind Regards, GL - Mario Goveia Here is another old-style Goanetter longing for the good old days when a small cabal of friends, so highly intelligent that they considered religion an affectation for the ignorant and weak-minded would snigger while someone they considered a decent human being among them attacked religion with what was considered to be pro-science and logic. Religious people we are told are members of mobs and herds following fake morality. On the other hand, ALL atheists around the whole world are pro-science, logical, independent, studious researchers, who weigh the evidence with deep introspection before concluding that religion is bogus. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing Bigotry(attn Elisabeth
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Nasci, I was stunned by your level of arrogance. I guess your contribution would be great in helping make the anticipated 'clash of civilisations' into a self-fulfilling prophecy. What's the point in criticising the perceived failings of the religions of others? What was it that Christ said about the log in our own eye? If we want to improve things, rather than just insult others, we should start by critiquing the faults within our own. You definitely don't have a right to insult people who practice a religion different from yours, and which, thanks to your narrowmindedness, you can't or won't even try to comprehend. FN PS: Let's stay off GoaFightingNet, GoaInsultingNet and GoaPrivateBattlesNet. Elisabeth's idea to ignore those who don't deserve a reply is apt. But I just can't let this pass, lest silence be taken as approval! On 27/07/06, Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have not referred to 'posters' as 'uncivilised pagans'. I have said and I do maintain that people, the Hindu religious who practice 'CASTE' superiority and worship animals and in the same breath look down on fellow humans just because the caste wallahs consider them low born! Is this not FACT and REALITY? THE TRUTH? Do you like this?These are the people who have to be 'civilised', definitely for the good of humanity and the people of the world at large. And I ask for a movement originating from the high caste Hindus to challenge, prohibit and eliminate caste acknowledgement and tyranny from public life -- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 4000+ copylefted photos to share from Goa http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/ ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] rsponse to nasci caldeira
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com hello: I never JUSTIFIED anything..any body with a fair understanding of the english language will tell you that I am only asking for people to treat all oppression and atrocities without bringing their own prejudices into play. Also there is nothing wrong in animal worship or stone worship or no worship at all. I have read your previous posts on Goanet. I dont know how old you are but it seems you still have a lot of growing up to do. For starters cultivate a bit of civility and common sense. As for your email I did read it and didnt respond to it because I dont think you are in any position of authority and consequently not worth a reply. I politely request you to refrain from sending me any personal emails, requesting any sort of information. So till you learn some basics of polite civil discourse on public forums i will let you stew in your own bile. -vivek __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] We, you and I, have become cannon fodder
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com On 27/07/06, Radhakrishnan Nair [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario queries: Here are two specific propositions that I predict the learned professor will dodge, or at least try to: a) If Hamas and Hezbollah put down their arms tomorrow and accept Israel's right to exist, peace will follow in the region. If Israel puts down their arms tomorrow, will there be peace? My query: Why should Hamas and Hezbollah put down their arms? In case you've forgotten it, Israel stole their country. b) If the Iraqi insurgents would put down their arms tomorrow, peace would follow in Iraq. That will be the peace of the graveyard. .. Regards, RKN Comment: The fact of the matter is that there are no terrorists (widespread) operating in Iraq; it is hyperbole and propaganda to state this. In reality Iraq is in total Civil war - Sunnis Vs Shias, the Christians and other minorities have been kicked out. Not by Islamo facists as is being made out by charlatan. Its like trying to squeeze water from a stone from someone who rants and raves and parrots the Bush Doctrine. No one is safe from the vitriolic to follow -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet vs Secular Goanet ?
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Frederick and Vivian, Good points! Frederick, I would vote for the following type of Goanet as long as it does not ban the contributions of President Pandurang Fernandes and Aunty Ponty: * A Goanet which is neutral towards all, and allows non-insulting, non-offensive and polite questioning, criticism or debate of any idea Vivian, not entirely in jest, but just stirring the pot to see how many people hate the freedom and democracy of the Independent Republic of Chimbel, this summer. The previous attempts to oust President Pandurang have all been miserable failures. Cheers, Santosh --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hold much respect for Santosh Helecar and most of his views (except for his excessive and almost fanatical faith in 'Science'). But in this case, it seems that he is veering the debate in a direction of his choice by using terms such as Christian and secular, as if these are two polar opposites or the only options available! ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] DOCUMENT: Right to Information Act gets going in Goa (an official statement)
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com GOA STATE INFORMATION COMMISSION GROUND FLOOR, ‘SHRAM SHAKTI BHAVAN’, PATTO PLAZA, PANAJI. E-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The functioning of the Goa State Information Commission has been commented upon in a section of the press recently. To remove any misunderstanding, the following clarifications are issued: 1. The commission is constituted by the Government in the Information Publicity Dept,on 02-03-2006. 2. The sate chief information commissioner(SCIC) and the state information commissioner(SIC) are appointed on 27-02-2006 and took oath of office on 21-03-2006. 3. Pending the establishment of its office, which always takes some time, the commission started functioning from the residence of the SCIC hearing appeals and even passed an order dt 29th May 06. 4. With effect from 08-06-06, the commission started functioning from its office at Shram Shakti Bhavan. There are some constraints in its functioning , but the commission does not allow them to come in its way of functioning. Some of these are: (i) Non allotment of funds resulting in non drawal of the salary of its employees; (ii) Inadequate staff like the secretary, registrar, accountant etc; (iii) Non availability of computer/typewriter and telephone. 5. In spite of the above constraints, the commission has taken some important decisions like the following: (i) The under-trial prisoners, like all other citizens, enjoy their right to information under the Right to Information Act (RTI). They cannot be denied information taking shelter under the exemption clauses as long as the information requested does not impede the investigation or prosecution in which they are accused; (ii) All Non Govt organizations(NGOs) receiving substantial financial aid from the appropriate Govt are Public Authorities(PAs). No separate notification is required to be issued by the Govt saying so; (iii) All Public Authorities (PAs) have to issue orders designating the Asst Public Information Officer(APIO) Public Information Officer(PIO) First Appellate Authority suo-moto without waiting for any such orders to be issued by the Govt; (iv) The Govt as the implementing authority of the RTI has to monitor and coordinate the above work which is the subject matter of a complaint before the commission in which case, the Ex-Officio Jt Secretary of the Information Dept was summoned and directed to file an affadavit; (v) Not giving the information or delaying the information or destruction of records to avoid giving the information by the PIOs, without sufficient reason, will attract penalty of Rs 250 per day payable by the PIO subject to a maximum of Rs 25000 and the burden of proof lies on him. One such case is already before the commission wherein a show cause notice is issued. (vi) The State Chief Information Commissioner has inaugurated a web page http://egov.goa.nic.in/rtipublic where information regarding information on RTI can be accessed. Citizens intending to contact the commission can do so at the address mentioned above or contacting by E-Mail. They can also access the web page http://egov.goa.nic.in/rtipublic. (V.V. Sawant) Under Secretary to the Commission Panaji, Dt 22-06-2006 ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing Bigotry(attn Nasci)
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com My dear Nasci, People my age don't do anything missionary. If you want to do something about castes, let's start with the Catholic Goans, who still put matrimonial ads stating that they want Bamons and Chardos for their sons and daughters. If I've misconstrued the contents or intent of your posts, I'm sorry. My apologies. Elisabeth --- Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Get real, Elisabeth! You are getting confused reading too much philosophy! Become a real missionary! Show your mettle! Do something for these castless, uncle/aunty less people! Nasci Caldeira Concerned non casteist! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet?
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Need to know the author of the [Goanet] Christian Goanet? in the subject line. Cip -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Santosh Helekar Sent: 24 July 2006 16:36 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? --- Edward Verdes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .I think i may draw a few enemies cause of my support to Mariobut that does not bother me...cause I am a Goan Christian and majority of goanetters being Christians. Interesting comment. Is this true? Are majority of Goanetters Christian? How about the silent netters? If this is true, how do people feel about this? Do you want to keep it this way? Also, although this may not be something that Eddie meant, how do people feel about supporting someone just because he belongs to your religion? Cheers, Santosh ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Peace initiative
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Dear Mr. gadgil, I will start by giving you one example so that we can deal with issue and discuss it further if you so choose to. Of course you have the option of calling me saffron sangh parivar stooge or fascist and end the matter right here. The report mentioned a grenade attack on a mosque in priol. was there ever such an attack? to the best of my knowledge the incident involved a firecracker set off or some thing to that effect and was in no way connected to any communal conspiracy or mobilization as insinuated by the report. This is my understanding of the incident. If you can furnish some more evidence and correct my statement I would willingly and unequivocally apologise to you on this forum. As far as my name goes, i want that information withheld for certain reasons. -vivek __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Goa news for July 28, 2006
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Goa News from Yahoo! News and Goanet.org Visit http://www.goanet.org/newslinks.php for the full stories. *** Goa may sue State if it diverts Mhadei waters (Deccan Herald) Goa Chief Minister Pratapsingh Rane on Wednesday said his government would seek legal recourse if Karnataka goes ahead with the proposed diversion of the Mhadei river water for its irrigation project. http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jul262006/update1424442006726.asp *** Goa should not make English a compulsory subject (New Kerala) Panaji, July 25: A large number of people gathered at the Azad Maidan here today to demand that the Goa government shelve its plans to make English a compulsory subject in primary schools. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=28170 *** Six medical institutions keen to set up colleges in Goa (New Kerala) Panaji: Six reputed medical institutions have sought permission of the Goa government to set up private medical colleges in the state, Health Minister Dayanand Narvekar told the state Legislative Assembly here today. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=28671 *** Goa offers incentives to lure IT cos (New Kerala) Panaji, Jul 26: Goa government has offered various incentives to lure Information Technology companies to set up their ventures into the state, the Legislative Assembly was informed today. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=28997 *** Goa to get monorail project: Minister (New Kerala) Panaji: The state government will go in for a monorail project based on the Mass Rapid Transit System, Goa transport minister Pandurang Madkaikar told the state Assembly today. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=29417 *** Goa offers incentives to lure IT cos (The Economic Times) PANAJI: Goa government has offered various incentives to lure Information Technology companies to set up their ventures into the state, the Legislative Assembly was informed on Thursday. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1815842.cms *** Goa to seek legal redressal if Karnataka diverts Mhadei water (New Kerala) Panaji: Goa Chief Minister Pratapsingh Rane today said his government will seek legal redressal if Karnataka goes ahead with the proposed diversion of Mhadei river water for its irrigation project. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=28633 *** Protect Goas pangolins (Navhind Times) WHEN the #152;Goa News cable TV channel on Monday beamed the image of a Pangolin (manis crassicaudata) rescued at Colva by an animal activist Julio Quadros, I was instantly alerted. http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=072645 *** Mhadei: Goa to ask Centre to set up water dispute tribunal (Navhind Times) Panaji, July 26: The Water Resources Minister, Mr Filipe Neri Rodrigues today said that the state would seek setting up of water dispute tribunal by the Union water resources ministry to resolve the dispute between Goa and Karnataka over the proposed diversion of water from Mhadei basin. http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=072717 *** Sesa Goa Apr-Jun net profit at 1.33 bln rupees -TV (Reuters via Yahoo! Asia News) July 26 (Reuters) - Iron ore exporter Sesa Goa Ltd. has posted a net profit of 1.33 billion rupees, compared to 1.58 billion rupees for the same period last year, according to two television channels. http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060726/3/2nmzi.html Compiled by Goanet News Service http://www.goanet.org/newslinks.php ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Goa Archbishop laments corruption in society
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Dears, Good values are not 'taught'; they are imbibed. We have to set a good example for our children to be good. The first commandment of promise is the fourth commandment [ the first three commandments are compulsions to acknowledge and serve God ]. It reads thus, Honour thy father and they mother...and you will not be put to shame at the city gate. How do parents who have put their aged parents in a Home for the aged expect to get love and respect from their children, friends and neighbours?? And how does an organisation that lacks transparency, accountability, integrity and even honesty, hope to clean up politics? Physician, heal thyself! Portrayals do not help. Children of today are not as naive as we were when young. Kids of five years will tell you the facts of life without batting an eyelid. It is the parents who squirm at the thought of telling these things to their children at puberty. Viva Goa. Miguel Gabe Menezes Goa Archbishop laments corruption in society http://www.theindiancatholic.com/newsread.asp?nid=2606 PANAJI (ICNS) -- Archbishop Filipe Neri Ferro of Goa and Daman says there is an erosion of values and principles in governance and rising corruption in the society and that families and schools can help children making citizens in India. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Triumph over Adversity
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Hi, I was truly surprised at the number of personal e-mails I received in response to my article on Joseph Pereira which was kindly posted by George Pinto of Goa Sudharop. Since there have also been some requests for Joseph's contact details I am, with Joseph's permission, posting his telephone number below. He would certainly benefit from orders for his excellent paper bags, especially bulk orders from corporates/business establishments. Joseph can be contacted at Tel : 2745349 / 9850452337 Regards, Valerie Rodrigues ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] The Burning Bush
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com The Burning Bush BIO-DIESEL FROM JATROPHA By Miguel Braganza Some childhood memories never burn out no matter how old one grows! I can still remember seeing the live fence of grey-green poles with light pista green leaves that surrounded our neighbours kitchen garden. As children, we would break off a leaf and collect the clear sap in a seashell or a bottle cap. A loop made at the slender end of a broom stick completed the kit required to blow soap bubbles. The soapy sap of this shrub was a legend that was revisited when I joined Goa government service. The motor vehicles had graduated from handle cranked engines to self-start but the windscreen wipers were still of the old technology. During the monsoons, water dripped into the Government jeeps and short circuited the motor of the wind screen wipers. One would be stranded if not for this not uncommon , if not ubiquitous, bio-fence shrub. Rann Eronn is what the jeep drivers called it. It was the same shrub that helped us blow bubbles earlier in life. Much later did I hear the name Jatropha curcas. Now everyone is talking about it as if money grows on trees. Jatropha is a drought resistant perennial growing shrub, non demanding, tolerant to extremes, suitable to tropical and non tropical climate and considerable climatic changes. It grows very easily and lives producing seeds for nearly 50 years. It is known by different names: in Hindi it is called Ratanjyot or Jangli Erandi, in Malyalam it is Katamanak, shile in Tamil it becomes Kattamanakku. Called as Pepalam in Telegu, its name in Kannada is Kadaharalu. To the Gujarati it is Jepal,and in Sanskrit it is listed as Kanana Randa . This plant species can be grown on low fertility, marginal, fallow, waste and other lands such as along the canals, road railway tracks, on borders of farmers field as boundary fence/ hedge in the arid / semiarid areas and even on alkaline soils. Jatropha is easy to be established in nurseries, grows relatively quickly and is hardy. Jatropha seeds are easy to collect as they are ready to be plucked before the rainy season and as the plants are not very tall. Being rich in nitrogen, the seed cake is an excellent sources of plant nutrients. A seedling will start yielding seeds after a year of its plantation. It is planted 2m x 2m and 2500 plants can be grown in 1 hectare 20 % of the plants transferred from a nursery would need to be replaced taking into account the usual rate of mortality of plantations. Jatropha can survive with minimum inputs and propagates easily. Flowering occurs during the wet season and two flowering peaks are generally seen. The seeds mature about three months after flowering. Oil yield per hectare is among the highest of tree borne oil seeds. Seed production ranges from about 0.4 tons per hectare per year to over 12 t/ha. From 2nd year onwards Jatropha cultivation generates an income of Rs. 25,000/- per hectare Seeds have an oil content of 37% by weight. Jatropha Oil can be combusted as fuel without being refined.It burns with clear smoke free flame.It has been tested successfully as fuel for simple diesel engine. One oil expeller requires for minimum 100 hectares of Jatropha plantation. Oil extraction is almost 91%. One esterification plant is required for crop on 1000 hectares. 1.05 Kg of oil is required to produce 1 kg of biodiesel . Cost of biodiesel varies between Rs. 14.98 - 16.59 per litre. Recovery from sale of Glycerol, a byproduct from Biodiesel is, Rs. 40 to 60 Kg. The other possible industrial uses of Jatropha oil are for tanning, candle making, soap manufacture, varnish, cosmetics, different types of non-edible oils and fertilizer. Jatropha can easily be used as a live fence once more in Goa. There is a growing awareness that fossil fuels will not last forever, and even if they do, there is a heavy price to pay. Fr. Inacio Almeida, sfx, of Pilar Nature Farm, R.U.P Desai of Vikas Nursery and a few other enterprising souls have raised Jatropha nurseries in Goa. The Forest Department has schemes of the NOVOD board to promote Jatropha cultivation. Time we all rose to the occasion and planted Jatropha in fallow alnds and to demarcate our property boundaries. Metal fences rust with the rain, Live fences grow stronger. (ENDS) Miguel Braganza's column at: http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=482 == The above article appeared in the July 21, 2006 edition of Gomantak Times, Goa
